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Don Lemon Tonight

Biden's Goal: Shots In Arms, Money In Pockets; McCarthy Tours Border, Blames Joe Biden For Human Heartbreak; White House And GOP Trade Blame For Border Crisis; Progressive Groups Launch $30 Million Effort To Push Voting Rights Legislations; Defense For Derek Chauvin Requests Delay After Floyd's Family's $27 Million Settlement; "The Talk" On Hiatus After Sharon Osbourne Meltdown Over Race; Hot Mic Catches Announcer's Racist Slurs As High School Basketball Players Kneel During Anthem. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired March 15, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): President Biden traveling to Pennsylvania tomorrow as part of his administration's week-long tour to introduce Americans to his nearly $2 trillion COVID rescue plan saying his goal over the next 10 days is to get 100 million vaccine doses in people's arms and 100 million relief checks in people's pockets. Checks began arriving over the weekend.

The president also announcing that Gene Sperling, a former top economic official in the Clinton and Obama administrations will oversee the massive spending in the new law.

So joining me now, CNN's White House correspondent, John Harwood and senior political analyst, Kirsten Powers. Good evening to both of you. John, you first. So President Biden is making some big promises, 100 million shots, 100 million checks in pockets. 100 million shots in arms and 100 million checks in pockets. All in the next 10 days. How is he going to get this done? That's a lot.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, the truth is Don, those promises sound a lot bigger than they actually are. Remember, Joe Biden came into the presidency promising 100 million vaccine doses in 100 days. That's the rate of a million a day. We were approaching that when he came into office. With a very focused and determined effort, they have accelerated that significantly. We're now getting over 2 million a day. We had a 3 million dose day the other day.

So when you start racking up those extra millions of doses per day, per week, you get the 100 million pretty fast. So they are going to get there somewhere in the 60s in terms of days, instead of day 100. In terms of the checks, that is not all that difficult either in the sense that if the treasury department has your bank information, by virtue of your IRS tax refunds, they can shoot that money out to you quickly and that's why people started seeing those $1,400 checks landing in their bank accounts over the weekend. Now, I don't know how much effort it is to get to 100 million

specifically but they can move a lot of money pretty fast. And this is a case of those are round numbers. Joe Biden is in fact delivering on things that he promised in the campaign. And no politician ever gets punished for setting goals that they know that they can achieve or exceed and he's on track to do that.

Now, he is going to spend the next couple of weeks along with his top aides, crisscrossing the country, promoting the need to get vaccinations and promoting what is in this relief bill. He's going to Pennsylvania tomorrow. Jill Biden is going to New Hampshire and New Jersey.

Joe Biden will go to Georgia later in the week. Those are all swing states. And he's going to try to make the case about child tax credits, Obamacare subsidies, aid to state and local governments, vaccination aid, aid in small businesses, all those programs.

Today he announced that Gene Sperling who was a senior economic official under both President Clinton and President Obama is going to oversee that effort. Gene Sperling is eminently familiar with all of these government programs. And so he's somebody who brings a lot of expertise to that task and he is promising to be as focused on that.

As Joe Biden was in focus -- focusing on the oversight of the stimulus plan when President Obama was in office in 2009. So, he's off to a promising start and he has got 10 days to deliver on this set of goals that he's established.

LEMON (on camera): So, Kirsten, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy led a GOP trip to the U.S. Mexico border in Texas today. Here's what he said about the situation.

[23:05:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): It's more than a crisis. This is a human heart break. The sad part about all of this, it didn't to have happen. All because the policies of our president has changed and told them something different. Told them to risk their lives. And broke families apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): I mean, it's pretty rich for the Republican leader to talk about the inhumanity of separating families at the border. How do you explain this outreach?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (on camera): Well, I mean, this is I think what the Republicans are very good at and I think that they think they're doing some sort of political Jujitsu with this or something. Somehow trying to turn this around. On Democrats, they are pretending that they care about something that they have more than demonstrate that they don't care about. The fact is, this issue is far more complicated than its being

presented. It is not -- nobody wants to have families come into this country. Nobody wants to have their children come into this country and go through a very unsafe process unless they're absolutely desperate. And that is the point.

It's not caused by the president of the United States. It doesn't matter who the president of the United States is that people come here. They come here because they're desperate. And that they're trying to get a better life. And so it is on us that when they get here to treat them as humanely as possible.

LEMON: Kirsten, I want to get to the growing number of harassment allegations against Governor Cuomo of New York. New York Democrats are now overwhelmingly calling for his resignation including Chuck Schumer. Kirsten Gillibrand that President Biden and the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi say the investigation should play out. Why is that?

POWERS: Well, because I think that, you know, that was their position that they feel like they learned through the Al Franken situation, about a lot of people felt that they had pulled the trigger too fast. Not that they have on what the investigation take its course and there was a huge backlash from Democratic voters.

And so their position is, have a real investigation. Get to the bottom of it. Find out what actually happened and don't make any premature decisions until you have all the facts.

LEMON: Kirsten, John, thank you so much. I want to bring in now CNN's Sarah Murray with the latest on the Republicans growing assault on voting rights. Sarah, good evening to you. Thanks so much for joining. There are more than 250 bills in 43 states are trying to make it harder to vote. Governor Abbott of Texas is the latest Republican to join this effort. But aren't his plans based on lies about fraud?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER (on camera): Well, you know, Don, it was interesting, listening to Governor Abbott today. Because he said that these bills, you know, two dozen have been introduced by GOP lawmakers in Texas, are important so that they build trust and confidence for constituents in their elections.

He doesn't mention that the reason people may not have trust and confidence in their elections is because Republicans have been running around insisting there's widespread voter fraud when there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. Even Governor Abbott wasn't able to come out today in front of the cameras and say there was widespread voter fraud.

But of course, that has not stopped Republican lawmakers. And in Texas, we are seeing a number of bills that would do things like limit early voting. You know, make it harder to either get absentee ballots or return you absentee ballots. A lot of these is pushed back to what saw in Houston in the last election, when they setup those early voting places that were up in 24 hours, drive-thru polling sites and that kind of thing. LEMON: You have some new reporting on the censure on what Democrats

are doing to push back against these measures in the Republican led states. What can you tell us about that?

MURRAY: That's right. This is a big campaign. Essentially what they're doing is going national. A bunch of left leaning groups that have teamed up together and citizens united, let America vote action fund, National Democratic redistricting committee, and they're going to pour $30 million essentially into 12 to 15 states where they're going on convince Senators to get this bill that already passed the House of Representatives, this sweeping election bill, and get it through the Senate.

Of course, the reason that it is a challenge is because this fight over what is going to happen with this election bill is going to coalesce and coincide with this fight over what's going to happen with the filibuster. The argument these groups are making, this left- leaning groups is this bill has to pass the Senate no matter what. We don't care how you get there. We don't care if - with Republicans (inaudible), if you have to make a procedural change to the rules to get around the filibuster. We just want this bill to pass.

LEMON: Sarah, we are also hearing that voting rights groups in Georgia are calling on corporations to speak out against voter suppression. What are you hearing about this campaign?

MURRAY: Right. You know, no surprise Georgia is one of these states where Republican lawmakers in the state have pushed forward a number of measures to try to make it more difficult for people to vote in that state. Obviously you saw a lot of Democratic wins there that Republicans were not too happy about in the last election cycle.

[23:10:00]

So voting rights groups had put up these billboards whether going after companies like Coca-Cola, Home Depot, Delta who has got up to this, big companies that are based in Georgia and essentially saying we need you guys to speak out. You've said in the past that you support voting rights. So it is time for to you speak out aggressively against this kind of specific legislation that moving right now through the Georgia legislature.

LEMON: Sarah, always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

MURRAY: Sure. OK.

LEMON (on camera): Stacy Abrams calling voter suppression efforts Jim Crow in a suit and tie. Is this just about the GOP getting power any way they can?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): They've gotten so comfortable winning election after election in our state that they're not really running on policy or ideas anymore. They're just trying to keep the people who don't usually vote for them from voting at all. (END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Republican controlled state legislatures all across the country moving to create what looks like a whole lot of the new Jim Crow. There are more than 250 bills in at least 43 states. That will result in restricting access to voting and a lot of those bills targeting black and brown Americans. Let's discuss now with Cornel West. He is the professor of public philosophy at Harvard. Good evening, sir. So good to have you on.

[23:15:19]

CORNEL WEST, PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC PHILOSOPHY HARVARD UNIVERSITY (on camera): Always a blessing. Again, salute for the love, my brother. This is the fight. This is fight.

LEMON: Thank you, thank you. I really appreciate all the love I'm getting. Dr. West, we have you on because you're an expert on this. We are seeing GOP effort to restrict voting access in states all across the land. A lot of it is based on this election lie that it was stolen. There was some sort of fraud. Widespread voter fraud and so on. You know that was none of this. They claim that they want election integrity. But what do they actually want, professor?

WEST: They want power. And most importantly, they want to subjugate the weak and vulnerable. Specifically black people, specifically brown, specifically indigenous people and poor people. Keep in mind, brother, the fundamental question. I know you deal with this in you text (inaudible) James Baldwin dealt with it, it would be the great (inaudible). You know, he raised these four questions that sit in the very center actually of this Grammy we won yesterday with Arturo O'Farrill, the jazz, afro-jazz Latin orchestra.

And the four questions are what? How does integrity face oppression? How does honesty face deception? How does decency face insult? And how does courage face brute force? So, any time we talk about a white supremacy backlash, we don't want to be completely occupied. We have to get fortified with our integrity, honesty, decency and courage. You remember that line, in (inaudible) left it to his nephew, which is tied to your letter to your nephew, what does he say? Don't, be afraid.

LEMON: Don't be afraid.

WEST: Don't, be afraid. Don't get scared. Don't get intimidated. Straighten your back up. Have spine. That's what our struggle is about. Brother that's one of the reasons why you're (inaudible) Louisiana is so very important. Because a Louisiana folk, they straighten their backs up. Louie Armstrong straightened his back up. Your parents straightened their backs up. They walked with dignity. They walk with integrity. They didn't allow hatred to come at them in such a way that they hated their return.

No, they loved each other. They loved the truth. They loved beauty. They loved goodness. And those if us who are Christian, we love God. So when we talk about this white supremacist backlash, my brother, we don't want to become so preoccupied that we down play our own strengths. We don't want to look at ourselves through the white normative gaze. We confront that gaze and we confront it with tremendous determination. You see the points I'm making?

LEMON: Yes. I see the point your making. That you don't have to be like them but you have to what?

WEST: You have to be strong. You have to be willing to fight. That's why we love Stacey Abrams. What is the name of her group? Bear fight.

LEMON: Bear fight.

WEST: That's why she left (inaudible). She the people. Empowerment. Enablement. That's what the boys were talking about in the four questions brother, after we recovered with the Grammy triumph yesterday. To institutionalize and mortalize that kind of attitude toward the world. So we never, ever become overcome by any kind of hatred or evil.

But we get fortified to be in the (inaudible) with the John Paul chain, a real force for good. I'm not talking about polls and posturing. I'm not talking about acting as if you're big and good, self-righteousness, I'm talking about serving folk, taking a risk, being willing to pay a cost. That's what our struggle is all about. That's why you and I are still here smiling, brother.

LEMON: I didn't get to go to church yesterday so I'm happy to hear all of this. So, listen.

(LAUGHTER)

WEST: Lord knows we need some spirit up in here.

LEMON (on camera): Let's talk about this. You know, I do have to talk about the realities of this. Because Black and Brown voters, they could be disenfranchised, right. They are trying to disenfranchise them. Again, we don't want to forget our power and focus on this so much that we forget our power, as you said. But they've put an incredible burden on black and brown voters. This is what Stacey Abrams described in the bill moving in Georgia. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACEY ABRAMS, FOUNDER, FAIR FIGHT: It is the redux of Jim Crow in a suit and tie. We know that the only thing that precipitated these changes, it's not that there was a question of security. In fact, the Secretary of State and the Governor went to great pains to ensure Americans that Georgia's elections were secure. And so the only connection that we can find is that more people of color voted and it changed the outcome of the election in a direction that Republicans do not like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Jim Crow in a suit and tie. What do you think?

WEST: That's the white supremacy backlash I'm talking about. It might be a (inaudible) that hit the nail on the head.

[23:20:03]

And the question is, once you make that point, then how do you engage in the kind of organizing? Which she has been doing for a good while. But she coming together to win (inaudible). Cynthia Harris, with poor people's campaign.

LEMON: Natasha Brown.

WEST: Coming together with all citizens of good will who want to push back this white supremacy backlash coming at us.

LEMON: Don't forget, Latasha Brown, too. Black folk (inaudible), who has traveled around in an R.V., registering people to vote and educating them about their power at the polls as well.

WEST: Absolutely.

LEMON: Dr. West, you know, we have seen, you know, what it's in a Ron Johnson is saying, we've heard what he's saying, that he had been, he would have been scared if it was Black Lives Matter or Antifa protesters there on January 6. But the insurrectionists, he was, you know, he was worried about them. We have Senator Tim Scott saying, that woke supremacy is as bad as white supremacy. Can you put this comments in the context for -- context of our history and where we are now?

WEST: Well, he becomes one of the voices that is part of white supremacy back lash. But I'm not worried about him. I mean I give him the weight of a mosquito on the behind of a rhinoceros. I'm talking about the strong voices that we have. I'm talking about the strong, moral, spiritual forces and figures that we need to be in order to respond to him. Do you see what I mean?

That's the crucial thing, my brother. Because his voice and the others become strong only to degree to which we are not fortified, we are not committed. We are not convicted enough to be able to resist. And that's why I love my (inaudible) Stacey and others, Latasha and the others. We have to learn it right, we've got to be part of this increasing wave against this white supremacist backlash we have seen it as a cycle over and over and over again in U.S. history.

And it is not just a matter of skin pigmentation. It is people who choose integrity, honesty, decency, courage. That is the moral and spiritual core and essence of fighting against the white supremacist backlash. And your voice has become a very important one. And March 16th, mark on (inaudible).

It's going to hit the mark. Well, but -- did you choose the day after the ides of March with the assassination of Julius Caesar in 44 B.C. where the Roman public is going under and the Roman Empire is emerging, is that the March 16 that mark, dialect that you've got been working, brother?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I would say yes. But then people would know I would be lying. But listen, I live for your, well, I would call it a sermon, for your sermons and you stalking the camera on my show, but at least a couple times a month. Thank you, professor. Thank you.

WEST: I love you, my brother. You stay strong, man.

LEMON: You as well. Thank you very much.

So the defense for the former police officer charge in the death of George Floyd asking for a trial delay. OK? After Minneapolis agreed to a settlement with George Floyd's family. Is that settlement having a negative impact on the trial? We are going to speak with the family, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:25:00]

LEMON: So there are new developments today in the trial of a former police officer Derek Chauvin who is facing second and third degree murder charges in the death of George Floyd. Chauvin's defense attorneys calling last week's announcement of the $27 million settlement between the Florida State and the city of Minneapolis incredibly prejudicial.

They're suggesting a range of responses including delaying the trial, the ability to reject more jurors, change in the location of the trial, recanvassing jurors who have already been picked, and even sequestering the jury. Judge Peter Cahill says that, he will allow the recanvas of jurors who have already been selected and consider the request to delay but says he won't give the defense any additional strikes to use on perspective jurors.

So joining me now to discuss is Benjamin Crump, an attorney for the Floyd family, and Philonise Floyd, George Floyd's brother. Gentlemen, good evening. Here we go with the twists and turns of the case. Philonise, I want to ask you, Derek Chauvin's attorney are trying to use the settlement that your family got from the city as a means to delay the trial. Are you confident that the settlement won't have an impact on this case?

PHILONISE FLOYD, GEORGE FLOYD'S BROTHER (on camera): I'm confident that it would not have an impact on the case. But at the same time, I think about what happened when Breonna Taylor, how they barricaded the building before they made the decision, after they gave a lump sum of money, and all of a sudden, she lost the entire case.

I don't want that to happen with this case. Because that video is enough to show that we need a conviction and we need justice. Because the world is watching. Minneapolis, Minnesota, they have to make a great decision and it has to be impactful. LEMON: Let's bring the attorney in here. Benjamin, so judge Cahill

dismissed one perspective juror today, because she said that she couldn't be fair and impartial after hearing about the settlement. Even the prosecuting attorney acknowledging today that the timing of the settlement was unfortunate. Do you think that Minneapolis city council should have waited to announce the details of the settlement?

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR THE FAMILY OF GEORGE FLOYD: Do, I just think it is ludicrous, when you think about the fact that 50 million people saw this video and they saw the video and that was riveting video. Once you saw that video, you can't unsee that video.

[23:30:01]

And if you can be fair and impartial after seeing that video, that's enough. The press conference last week is irrelevant to what happened on that video. And I think it's just a delayed tactic. I think the judge is going to see past it. And I think we're going to go forward with this trial with an impartial jury.

LEMON: Philonise, as you said, you think that it's going to -- you know, you hope that -- that it doesn't have an impact. But the trial made national and international news. Your family has been through a lot. I mean, I can't even imagine. Most people can't even imagine. And this is just the beginning.

Are you going to be in the courtroom when the trial starts? Are you nervous about that, about having to relive this?

FLOYD: I'm not nervous at all. I feel like I'm prepared. I have a great team behind me, and we're all fighting for justice. One thing I have learned. You have to fight for what you want in life. And no justice, no peace. We will keep watching.

I like to thank the protesters who help us out. Hey, we're going to march again because we will get justice and we will get a conviction out of this.

LEMON: So, of the nine jurors who have been picked so far -- there's a makeup of it on the screen -- five are white, two are Black, one Hispanic, one is mixed race. That's according to how they self- identified on their jury survey, six men and three women so far. How do you feel about how the jury selection process is going?

CRUMP: Well, obviously, we would want more diversity. But as long as people are fair and impartial and people will give George Floyd the same respect and not let the character assassination that we're going to witness -- as I told Philonise and his family, they're going to call George Floyd everything except a child of god.

And that's the playbook, as long as those jurors won't be distracted and they'll say we're going to go by the facts. The video shows us the law that the judge instructs us on. And they have to convict. This is a hard case.

If that was a white man down there, nobody would say it was a hard case. But when it is a Black person down there, they say, oh, we have such a difficult challenge ahead of us. That's because race permeates everything in America and especially the legal system.

LEMON: Ben, the final juror selected today is a white woman in her 50s. She told the court that she got the impression that Chauvin didn't care about George Floyd, but also said it was too bad that police are under a microscope now. What is your reaction?

CRUMP: Well, Black people have been under a microscope for the last 400 years, especially when it comes to policing in America. We can have more just America, better policing, where Breonna Taylor gets to sleep in her bed at peace in night, where Jacob Blake isn't shot in the back walking away from the police, and where George Floyd gets to take another breath.

Policing in America must be better because if not, we're going to continue to have these hashtags quicker than we can keep up, Don Lemon.

LEMON: Thank you, Ben. Thank you, Philonise. I appreciate your time. We'll be back talking about this soon enough. Thank you.

FLOYD: Thank you.

CRUMP: Thank you.

LEMON: So, wow, a heated conversation over race on TV, on a show called "The Talk" between Sharon Osbourne and her co-hosts, spilling out into the open last week. Now, the show is going on a hiatus for an internal review.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So new tonight, The Talk on hiatus after a fiery conversation over Sharon Osbourne having it out with her co-hosts following Piers Morgan's attacks on duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle. Here's part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON OSBOURNE, CBS HOST: I will ask you again, Sheryl.

SHERYL UNDERWOOD, CBS HOST: Yes.

OSBOURNE: I've been asking you during the break.

UNDERWOOD: Yes.

OSBOURNE: I'm asking you again. And don't try and cry because if anyone should be crying, it should be me. This is the situation.

UNDERWOOD: Yeah. OSBOURNE: You tell me where you have heard him say, educate me. Tell me when you have heard him say racist things. Educate me. Tell me.

UNDERWOOD: It is not the exact words of racism. It is the implication and the reaction to it. To not want to address that because she is a Black woman, and to try to dismiss it or to make it seem less than what it is. That's what makes it racist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Wow! It was that don't cry part that just enraged me. Osbourne is issuing an apology. She says, to anyone of color that I offended and/or to anyone that feels confused or let down by what I said, I am truly sorry. I panicked, felt blindsided, got defensive and allowed my fear and horror of being accused of being racist take over.

[23:40:08]

LEMON: CBS announcing matters relating to last week's episode are under an internal review.

Joining me now is Jemele Hill, the host of "Jemele Hill is Unbothered" podcast. Hi, Jemele. Where do we start?

JEMELE HILL, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Well, that was -- well, you know, Don. It is that only (INAUDIBLE) Black people. We don't know exactly how many nerves that we have. And so all 67 of my nerves just stood up and tingled by you just replaying that clip, a clip that I've, of course, by now seen a few times.

But that was just disturbing on so many levels. I mean, Sharon Osbourne had a full on temper tantrum -- temper tantrum as Sheryl Underwood is trying to talk to her calmly and professionally about a very important issue.

And for a lot of people of color who are watching that exchange, we've all unfortunately been where Sheryl Underwood has been before, where you have somebody who is white, who is defensive, feeling attacked over an issue that impacts you.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Why does Sharon Osbourne feel like she is a victim in all of this? The victim is Meghan Markle. That's who the victim is. And so for her to get so outraged and upset, you know the old phrase, Don. A hit dog will holler.

LEMON: Well, here is for me to think. And look, if someone is -- she apologized. I'm sorry, whatever. That's fine. I didn't see a, hey, Sheryl Underwood, I'm sorry for the way I treated you, how I spoke to you, that I disrespected you on national television. I didn't see that at all.

The part that got me was, and don't start trying to cry. I'm the one who should be crying. And you educate me. First of all, it's not her job to educate her. And it's not her -- she can't tell someone when to cry and when to be emotional. That was the -- but she didn't apologize for that. So someone apologizes. Look, you know when an apology is sincere, right? That was not sincere. And she didn't apologize to the right people. And I think people should be able to have these conversations. Sheryl Underwood and Sharon Osbourne should be able to have difficult conversations with, not a degree of honesty, with full honesty. But there must be respect there.

And Sharon Osbourne made it all about her rather than the actual act of racism. That's what privilege is. So she was more aggrieved about the possibility that someone might perceive her as racist than the actual act of racism.

HILL: Yeah. And she has to understand, too, is that people responded to her support of Piers Morgan because they know that he has been attacking Meghan Markle for years. And it's like, her support and defense of her friend meant more to her than actually addressing what was the issue.

Nobody, at least from what I saw in the conversation, nobody said Sharon Osbourne, you're a racist.

LEMON: They all kept saying we know you're not a racist.

HILL: Exactly. So, for her reaction to just be on (INAUDIBLE) when it was so unnecessary and just the disrespect that she showed someone who came into that conversation, considering Sharon Osbourne a friend, and then for her to embarrass her on national television, I will just say this, Don.

Imagine if the roles were reversed. Imagine if Sheryl Underwood had behaved that way on national television toward Sheryl Osbourne. Do you know what they would be calling Sheryl Underwood today? They would be calling her everything but a child of god.

And so I just applaud Sheryl Underwood for being able to stay as calm as collected as she did because I think it further exposed really the ugliness that was there with Sharon Osbourne.

LEMON: OK. So listen. And that's not all. We just played a little bit because there was some cursing going on. She said I can't be racist because I'm, you know, f-ing Jew, right? She goes how am I going to be racist and let's get off --

HILL: Because she's 68, right, Don?

LEMON: Right. She said I'm 68 years old and let's get off this damn topic. It was just -- and I was, like, wow! Imagine doing that on television if Sheryl had done that.

Now, listen. So let's talk -- we have very candid conversations here. You know people. Quite frankly, white people are afraid to talk about race because in some way they feel like Sharon Osbourne. So how do you allow leeway for people to be able to have conversations and to be able to make mistakes in conversations, and possibly say the wrong thing? But I guess it has to come from an honest place rather than from a defensive stance. Help me. I'm saying what Sharon said. Help me out here, Jemele.

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: I think number one -- and we see this all the time.

[23:45:03]

HILL: I think number one, a lot of white people (INAUDIBLE), honestly. It's like if you're trying to have a productive, constructive conversation about race with somebody Black or of color, period, I need you to listen more than I need you to talk.

So that, to me, right there is an indication of your level of seriousness. And understand that it is not our responsibility to teach you anything. I'm not walking you through 400 years of history. I'm not explaining to you everything racial under the sun. That is not my job. So the work you need to be able to put in some work to even enter the conversation. And if you're not able to do that, then I can't really take it all that seriously.

But this is a frustrating experience commonly for people of color because when we try to have those conversations, we get told how to feel, what to feel. We wind up sometimes until we get to a point where I just don't care anymore, I'm going to have to hurt your feelings, we wind up trying to do them, which is exactly unfortunately what Sheryl Underwood -- it put her in a bad spot. That is what she had to do. She has to talk calmly and soothe this woman as she is losing her mind on TV.

And so that's the part that I don't like. Again, the people most victimized, oppressed by racism, who have the boot of racism on their neck, also they have to turn into psychiatrists. We have to problem solve. We have to do all the heavy lifting. And the white people just get to sit there and just -- as Sharon Osbourne did, have a complete temper tantrum on TV while we are doing all the work.

LEMON: Thank you. We'll continue this conversation. We'll see. They're on hiatus. We'll see what happens, what transpires, what comes out of this. I don't think it's over. And when I saw that conversation, I said this is that over. This is going to have far-reaching ramifications.

HILL: Yeah. Real quick, Don. That's another thing, too. They shut down the whole show because of what this woman did on television. So everybody else has to now pay because she didn't know how to act on TV. Another form of privilege.

LEMON: Yeah. They could have had the conversation in the open where it should be had rather than shutting it down.

HILL: Right.

LEMON: Maybe they will. Let's hope they will. Thank you. Thank you. I'll see you soon.

Listen, tomorrow, my book comes out. I wrote about all this. I know it can help. It is called "This is the Fire." So make sure you pick it up and read it. What I say to my friends about racism. Friends, this is how we should talk to each other. And we should, amongst friends. So find someone who doesn't look like you, befriend them somehow, and have these conversations. I hope you check it out.

A hot mic catching a racist and outrageous comments from an announcer during a high school basketball game. He is blaming his type 1 diabetes. A member of the basketball team responds, next.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON (on camera): So, racist slurs hurled by high school basketball announcer last week as a member -- as members of the Norman High School girls' team took a knee during the national anthem. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): They're kneeling? (Bleep) I hope Norman gets their (bleep) kicked.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Are you serious?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): That's Midwest City, isn't it? Kneeling? Isn't it?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Huh? Norman.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): (Bleep) them, I hope they lose. Come one, Midwest City. They're going to kneel like that, hell no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Hmm. Well, we still have a lot of work to do. Joining me now, Norman High School basketball player Chantae Embry and her mom Rhonda Embry. The Lady Tigers. Good evening.

RHONDA EMBRY, MOTHER OF CHANTAE EMBRY: Hi.

LEMON: Hi.

EMBRY: Good evening.

LEMON: Thank you for doing this. Chantae, first off, congratulations to you for winning the Oklahoma State championship. I'm sorry that the story was part of your experience. But you and your team learned about the -- what the announcer said when someone watched a recording of the game. What did you think? How'd you react?

CHANTAE EMBRY, NORMAN HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL PLAYER: Yes. One of our teammates, their parents, they caught it on recording, and we learned out from our high school coach, Coach Neil. And as soon as he told us, like, it was kind of like, it wasn't surprising but also it was crazy how this is still happening in this day and age, in 2021.

And it's -- goes to show we still have so much more to accomplish as a country and as a community, and especially as our state. And my heart, it was just -- it -- it broke, basically, because that word, it doesn't define us. It doesn't define me. It doesn't define my teammates. It doesn't define any of us. So just to hear how much hatred he spread with that word was awful.

LEMON: And do you want our viewers to know why you and your teammates chose to kneel during the national anthem?

C. EMBRY: Yeah. So, we decided to kneel at the beginning of our basketball season. And it's no disrespect to anyone. It's nothing. We didn't want any negativity to be brought over it. We just decided that as a team because there is racism still alive and well in this country, systematic racism, police brutality, social injustice.

And we wanted to shed light on that. And that's just something that all of us decided as a team. And I'm just proud of us because we let our voices be heard.

LEMON: Well, you kind of proved the point, right? Because hearing what the announcer said.

Rhonda, listen. The announcer is issuing a statement. He is blaming that he has type 1 diabetes. He says, I will state that I suffer from type 1 diabetes and during the game my sugar was spiking.

[23:55:03]

LEMON: So -- and then he goes on. We put it up there anyways. So he says that he was disoriented and what have you. What did you -- what did you make of this entire incident?

R. EMBRY: Well, you know, like I said, you know, Chantae called me, extremely upset the night they heard it. And it was the night before another big game as well. So, you know, we were just like wondering who said it. You know, who would have said something like that?

But when his statement comes out, you know, we just thought it was ridiculous. You know, just admit you were wrong and move on. And, you know, we can have conversations about it. But don't, you know, just exaggerate a story.

LEMON: Yeah. Well, 19-0 record, championship, undefeated. You're going on to Texas tech. You're using this as your -- you're using the hate to motivate, and I am so proud of you for doing it.

Chantae and Rhonda, unfortunately, we are out of time, but listen --

R. EMBRY: That's OK. Thank you so much.

C. EMBRY: Thank you so much. LEMON: -- I'm so -- I'm so proud of you. You remind me of my niece. I see your glossy lips and your beautiful hair and that -- and that smile and your female athlete shirt. I'm just so proud of you. Thank you for doing it.

C. EMBRY: Thank you.

LEMON: You keep going. Don't let anybody stop you.

C. EMBRY: Thank you.

R. EMBRY: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you. We're done. Good night.

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