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Don Lemon Tonight
President Biden Not In Favor Of Eliminating The Filibuster; Eight People Killed In Spa Shootings In Georgia; Dr. Birx Felt Uncomfortable With A Head-Scratching Question; Senator Ron Johnson Complains About Cancel Culture; Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) Is Interviewed About Whether President Biden Would Stop The GOP From Suppressing Voting Rights; Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnel Warns Democrats. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 16, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): All right. Thank you for watching. Time for the big show "CNN TONIGHT" and the big star, D. Lemon right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: So, I say, I was watching you and Harry, by the way, I love watching Harry, I'm just wild about Harry on the show. But let me just say, that was good. So, I'm watching -- and in this divided political time, anything that's anywhere near a positive I think is the person is in a better spot than can be imagined because we're -- because think about the last -- era, the administration we just left.
And what I will say as well is that Biden doesn't care. He's not worried about those numbers. He's just working and he's ignoring the Republicans and that's got to be driving them crazy.
CUOMO: I think that his laid-back approach has been good. I think that there was some bad casting around his approach early on that he'll be able to work with these Republicans --
LEMON: No.
CUOMO: -- on the right. Look, I don't know if you heard the open of the show tonight but I'm tired of this media baiting about Mitch McConnell. He's threatening, you know. If you get rid of the filibuster. Why? Why is the media all Twitter about this?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Why -- what do you think he's going to do? It's not a threat.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: It's a promise.
LEMON: Right. CUOMO: He will do you dirty and play power politics and beat you.
LEMON: Always.
CUOMO: Again.
LEMON: Always.
CUOMO: That's what he does. You're going to not remove the filibuster because you're worried about what it will mean to Mitch McConnell.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He will do it to you. He did it to you in 2017 with the most sacred aspect of super majority which is Supreme Court justices, he lied to you and then played you and won. What else do you need to know?
LEMON: In the very beginning I said -- and I posed the question, not only to you, and to guests on the show, but also to people who were potentially going to work for the administration and then ended up working for the administration, is why are you -- why do you care so much about what Mitch McConnell is doing? Why are you trying so hard to work with Republicans who actually don't believe in reality at this point?
CUOMO: It's not even how they believe they win.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: Just to be clear --
LEMON: Work for the American people because the American people want you to work for them.
CUOMO: Obey --
LEMON: Stop looking at the political class --
CUOMO: -- but they want to win.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Politics is about power --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- power accumulation and retention. I am not personally slamming Mitch McConnell. And it's not because I'm soft or I don't want the criticism that goes with it. He's playing the game.
LEMON: And he plays it very well.
CUOMO: That's right. Now, that's all that matters to me. I don't know him. I don't need to know him. It's about his effectiveness. If the Democrats don't find a way, and this talk from the left, the big shots on the media from the left, they have to figure out what to do next, you know what to do next. S1 and H.R. 1 is next. If you don't get those done --
LEMON: And they got that.
CUOMO: -- on your watch as Democrats you're already a lame duck party.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: As soon as you lose this fight.
LEMON: You won't be able to win any elections.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I don't know what else to discuss except how to finesse the filibuster to see that if you can do it without completely getting rid of it.
LEMON: That and gerrymander, if you don't take care of voting and H.R. 1 in any of these issues, then you may not be elected to a national office, Democrats, ever again because Republicans, they're better at this politics thing, they're better at this gerrymandering thing.
CUOMO: They're better at staying together --
LEMON: But they're also --
CUOMO: -- staying focused.
LEMON: But they're also better at suppressing the vote as well than Democrats.
CUOMO: Well, look, I mean, look, that's their bet right now. After Obama it was about the big tent.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: They've decided to go in a different direction, small tent.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: A yurt.
LEMON: A yurt? Not even an igloo. Like a little tiny tent.
CUOMO: Weather dependent. Can't go with an igloo.
LEMON: Like a back-packing tent.
CUOMO: You're done in the southern states if it's an igloo.
LEMON: It's good to see you, my friend.
CUOMO: Always a pleasure, brother. I love you, D. Lemon LEMON (on camera): I've got to get to this breaking news. And it's
very serious. Because look, we don't know but this could be a biased crime against Asians, and that's a no go. We've got to stop that.
Thank you, Chris. I'll see you soon. I love you, brother.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Here's our breaking news. I just mentioned it to Chris, OK, again being very transparent here, we don't know exactly what is going on but from the looks of it could be a biased crime. Police are investigating. They haven't given a definitive statement yet.
But here's what we know at the time. We're going to follow it wherever this lead. So at least eight people killed in shootings, three Atlanta area spas tonight, three different spas, four people dead in neighboring spas in Atlanta. It is our breaking news.
Four more at another spa, that one is in Acworth, Georgia. OK? A suspect has been apprehended tonight. The FBI is assisting with the investigation. It's a really fast developing. And I'm going to bring you the very latest news when we get it throughout the show. So, make sure you stay tuned, we're going to continue with that breaking news. More breaking news to tell you about as well.
[22:05:06]
The president, Joe Biden tonight saying that he supports an old- fashioned talking filibuster and he thinks Republicans will have an epiphany between now and 2022. Here's the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CHIEF ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: You're on a mission, so you're not likely to get Republican votes for the tax increase, you're not likely to get Republican votes for H.R. 1, expanding voting rights or the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. So, aren't you going to have to choose? I know you've been reluctant to do away with the filibuster, aren't you going to have to choose between preserving the filibuster and advancing your agenda?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes. Now here is the choice. I don't think you have to have to eliminate the filibuster. You have to do it what it used to be when I first got in the Senate and back in the old days when used to being around there.
And that is, that a filibuster you had to stand up and command the floor and you had to keep talking alone. You couldn't call for -- you know, no one could say, you know, quorum call. Once you stop talking you lost that and someone could move in and say I move the question of. So, you've got to work for the filibuster.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you're for that reform, you're for bringing back the talking filibuster?
BIDEN: I am. That's what it was supposed to be. Look, I think, don't hold me to the numbers, George, but I think between 1960 and 2000 -- I'm making this number up, I don't know, there were like, you know, 50 filibusters, now there are like 200 since then since that --
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Just put a hold on it, that's it.
BIDEN: Yes. I mean, you know, so the idea -- it almost is getting to the point where there's, you know, democracy is having a hard time functioning. A hard time functioning. And so, look, I'm not saying this is going to be easy, George, but I do believe there's enough Republicans over time who are going to have -- look --
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: They haven't had that epiphany. You said you're going to see in the campaign.
BIDEN: No, no. Well, I've only been here six weeks, pal, OK? Give me break. Been here six weeks. I think the epiphany is going to come in 20 -- between now and 2022.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): OK We will see about that. But this is happening as the insurrection inspiring disgraced twice impeached one-term former president is admitting tonight that no Republican will ever win unless they oppose H.R. 1.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA BARTIROMO, ANCHOR, FOX BUSINESS: Can a Republican win again if H.R. 1 becomes law?
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If they allow that to happen, if it's allowed to happen, I think your Republicans will have a very hard time getting elected. What will happen is the Democrats will be able to do what they did in the last -- in the 2020 election, and even worse, potentially even worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, let me tell you now. Ladies and gentlemen, we are on a collision course over this very issue. It is going to be a battle that we haven't seen since the civil rights era.
Republicans are trying to stay in power by taking away your vote. They want to take your vote away. You going to let them? Just going to stand there and let them take your vote away? Democrats who need to protect voting rights, they need that to survive. Despite President Biden's moderate tone there, it's going to be an all-out war. OK? Remember what the former Vice President Al Gore told me just last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It is
a naked effort to try to suppress Black, brown and indigenous votes, suppress any kind of votes from people who they think will not go for the far right, you know, promote the interest of the wealthy program. They have -- you know, let me give them their credit. I think they actually believe that this country would be better if the wealthy and powerful had more control over all of the decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Like I said, a battle we haven't seen since the civil rights era. That as this country is in the race against time right now trying to get more Americans vaccinated as a dangerous variant spread. The former president who was vaccinated in secret before he left the White House, don't want anybody to see me getting the vaccine because it's going to make me look weak. And then that just negates everything that I just lied to you about over the last year so he did it in secret. Now recommending vaccinations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would recommend it and I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it and a lot of those people voted for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Now, that's exactly what a lot of vaccine skeptics need to hear, OK? He could have done a lot of good by saying that sooner. And let's remember, because -- how could you forget, right?
[22:09:59]
The former president promoted one useless so-called treatment after another. We know, hydroxychloroquine, injection light. Remember the moment that may have been the lowest point in his refusal to take COVID seriously.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous -- whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it and then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting.
UNKNOWN: We'll get the right folks who could.
TRUMP: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Wow. That actually happened, period. Let's not forget that the then President of the United States, in the middle of a deadly pandemic, suggested a powerful, a very powerful light, or a disinfectant. Inside the body. Could be a treatment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Deborah, have you ever heard of that, the heat and the light relative to certain viruses, yes, but relative to this virus?
DEBORAH BIRX, FORMER COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: Not as a treatment. I mean, certainly fever --
TRUMP: Yes.
BIRX: -- is a good thing when you have a fever it helps your body respond. But not as -- I have not seen heat or light --
TRUMP: I think that's a great thing to look at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): And he had the nerve to call me the dumbest man on television. You cannot write this stuff. Fever. Maybe it was a fever dream. Donald Trump. Let's not forget that. Dr. Deborah Birx apparently wishes that she could forget it, right, because here's what she tells ABC just this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRX: That moment, obviously, there's a lot of tape on that, you can see how extraordinarily uncomfortable I was. Unfortunately, he was not speaking to me. He was speaking to the DHS scientist who had presented the data. And then when he did turn to me, I said not a treatment. Frankly, I didn't know how to handle that episode. I still think about it every day.
When I was spoken to, I said not a treatment. But I don't know -- I guess some people thought I should run up on stage and interrupt this dialogue that was going on between the DHS scientist and the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): OK, look. Dr. Birx is a distinguished fighter against HIV AIDS, fighting that battle by sticking to the facts, by telling the truth. But honestly now she seems to be writing history, rewriting history because just a few days after the then president's absurd claims she told our Jake Tapper the news media was keeping the story alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRX: It bothers me that this is still in the news cycle. Sometimes I worry that we don't get the information to the American people that they need when we continue to bring up something that was from Thursday night.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON (on camera): Well, we have that. And we also have the former first lady of the United States Michelle Obama speaking out on The Today show about Meghan Markle and the racism she says she experienced in the royal family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: That was heartbreaking to hear that she felt like she was -- and her own family. You know, her own family thought differently of her.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Race isn't a new construct in this world for people of color. So, it wasn't a complete surprise to hear her feelings and to have them articulated. I think the thing that I hope for, and the thing I think about is that this first and foremost is a family. And I pray for forgiveness and healing for them so that they can use this as a teachable moment for us all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Well, a teachable moment and I've said it before, racism is racism. It doesn't matter if you're royalty or a celebrity. It doesn't matter how much money you have. We've all got to do the work. We have to sit down and we have to talk to each other, one to one.
Talk with people who don't look like you. That's what I write about in my new book, it is out today, it's called "This is The Fire: What I Say to My Friends About Racism," out right now and I really think that it can help -- help us have those conversations and move us into the right place, conversations that we need to have and then beyond that we need to do the work.
Let's get to the news now. I want to bring in CNN's Kaitlan Collins with a lot of news from the president tonight. Kaitlan, good evening to you, thank you so much.
[22:15:03]
President Biden made a lot of news in this interview with ABC, with George Stephanopoulos, what are the headlines for you?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he did. He talked about immigration and what's going on at the border and that surge that you're seeing there.
He said he did not believe it was because of his own immigration policies, and instead was urging people to wait before trying to come to the border and basically saying that they're still processing everything and trying to get it figured out, how they want it to work given of course that you are seeing a record number of children in the border patrol facilities, not where they're supposed to be, these jail-like detention facilities.
But he also was talking about other priorities of his, including his other legislative agenda. We know he wants to get some immigration moves through Congress, whether or not that actually happens still remains to be seen.
And he did weigh in on the filibuster, Don, which was something we have not seen from President Biden yet, actually saying he wants to change something about the filibuster since he took office, but now he says he's up for filibuster reform. And instead of where before a senator could block a bill by just simply saying they would like to filibuster it, now they can actually talk for several hours.
That's where you saw President Biden saying he supported earlier tonight during that interview, that's really major because that, of course, could change the trajectory of his presidency and how things move on the hill.
Now, we still have to wait, of course, to get some reaction from senators on this, but that's incredibly significant how he basically framed this. And then of course one other thing he said during that interview that he did while he was here, while he was in Pennsylvania before he came here to Wilmington where we are now is he was asked about Governor Cuomo and whether or not he believes he should resign if the allegations against him are proven to be true in the investigation that right now is ongoing, those allegations of sexual harassment, and a toxic workplace.
And Don, he said, yes, he does believe that Governor Cuomo should resign if those allegations are proven true and he also says he thinks he'll be prosecuted if so.
LEMON: Kaitlan, thank you. We'll play the sound bite a little bit later. I just realized you were in Wilmington when you said it. I don't know why. I thought you were at the White House and I'm looking right at the screen.
Thank you, Kaitlan. We'll get to the sound bites a little bit later on in the broadcast. We appreciate your reporting from Wilmington, Delaware tonight.
And here's breaking news tonight, a suspect apprehended in three shootings at spas in Georgia. At least eight people are dead. Police say several of the victims are Asian.
We head to CNN's Ryan Young who is on the scene for us with a major update from authorities. We'll do that right after the break.
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): We have some breaking news. We're going to get to our Ryan Young in just a moment. It's about the breaking news, we're getting it in. I'm just reading it here. But let me tell you what I know so far.
At least eight people killed tonight in shootings at three spas. Two located in northwest Atlanta. One located northwest of the city of Cherokee County. A northwest of the city, and that's in Cherokee County. A suspect in the Cherokee County shooting has been taken into custody.
Now to Ryan Young who's in Atlanta for us, and CNN law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey also with me as well.
Ryan, I understand that there's some developing news, a suspect has been apprehended, investigators now think that these three shootings, according to your reporting, right, that they're connected.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Don. Look I'm still getting text messages now from investigators. Robert Long is the man they've taken into custody. Now, look, this all started around five o'clock.
But the new development is that that suspect was taken into custody somewhere in Crisp County after a pit maneuver was performed by the Georgia state patrol, that's when an officer uses the front of his car to hit the back of the suspect's vehicle and sends it into a tail spin.
So, we do know the suspect has been taken into custody. Now if you look behind me this is still a very active crime scene here and we're told it is still active crime scene in Cherokee County as well. The shooting of course started at around five o'clock. You have four victims at that first site. Now we have four victims here as well.
Police are working with the theory that these two shooting scenes or three shooting scenes are all connected. They believe the suspect who was captured on video, they believe, video surveillance at that first scene is how they were able to put out that description of the black Hyundai they're looking for and then that suspect the picture was in eventually released.
We're told he's 21 years old, he's from the Woodstock area which is also outside of Atlanta. It's very near Buckhead in Atlanta. Just to give you an idea, Don, so you can show, this is very near Buckhead here in Atlanta. This road has been shut down for several hours as investigators have done their investigation.
Cherokee County is about 47 minutes away from here, and Crisp County, where he was eventually arrested is almost two hours away from this location. So, you know that law enforcement has been working, coordinating things throughout the jurisdictions to kind of figure out what was the motive of the shooting.
We still haven't been told about a first court appearance or whether or not investigators have been able to ask them that critical question but the toll here has been so hard for families. We're also told the reason they haven't released additional information with Cherokee County about the victims is because they haven't had a chance to notify all the family members who were involved in this.
It's going to be a heartbreaking scene, over and over again as families start to learn that their loved ones have been lost to these senseless shootings. LEMON: Yes. And as it said on your note that I got here, that
information has not been released on Cherokee County because officials are still working to notify the next of kin. Boy, boy. Stand by, Ryan.
Charles Ramsey, I want to bring you in now. Because multiple crime scenes, multiple jurisdictions. The FBI is assisting with the investigation and they do now have that suspect in custody, which we had up on the screen there just a short while ago. There he is right there. So, they should be able to sort out a motive and whether -- and how these incidents are connected. Correct?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, they will find a motive, no doubt about that, they will be executing search warrants. They have to get a search warrant for his vehicle, wherever he's living. They'll go through his computer, social media. And so forth. And I'm sure they'll probably determine a motive.
Hopefully a firearm was recovered in that vehicle because a ballistics check would definitely put him as the shooter in all three cases. So, there's still a lot of work that has to be done in this case.
[22:25:04]
LEMON: So, let's talk here, Charles. You have at least four of the people killed there, Asian women. Listen. We don't want to get ahead of the investigation here, but how will police determine if any of these crimes were motivated by anti-Asian bias at a time when there's a lot of fear and a lot of tension about that. And it has been real. We've been reporting on a lot of anti-Asian bias around the country.
RAMSEY: Well, I mean, that's a strong indication that it could be hate motivated. Again, they'll go through a social media. They'll go through any documents. They'll interview him before they officially determine what the motive was.
But obviously, you know, there's a link there with the three spas, four of the victims at least are Asian. Don't know the race of the ethnicity of the other four but there is a strong indication there. But they won't officially announce a motive until they have a little bit more.
LEMON: Yes. Ryan, what is this in the reporting, tell me if I'm wrong or not, are they looking into similar businesses, are they on alert tonight or are they guarding similar businesses? What's the word on that?
YOUNG: Well, you know, some of these places probably are getting ready to close at this point, Don, but this area that I'm standing in right now has four or five of those businesses just within a block of each other. If you look, I mean there's a spa here and there are two spas across the street.
One thing you can probably be sure of is investigators might start looking through some of the surveillance film to see if the suspect had been to this location before and maybe he targeted these for some sort of reason. A lot of this area -- in this area there's a lot of video cameras so
they'll sure have a lot of surveillance video to go through. I think that's one of the things that helped Cherokee County investigators get that image out so very quickly. That helped obviously the Georgia state patrol officers to know they were looking for that black SUV that had damage to the front side of it so when they spotted it on the road, they were able to perform that pit maneuver.
So I'm sure investigators are working with a lot more information than what we know of and then you have all the jurisdictions that are involved in this, and of course you have the expert homicide detectives here in Atlanta who can also go through all the files here in the ballistics to piece this together.
That will be part of the investigation, of course, but think about this. The idea that they got that information out so quickly, they were able to capture him two hours away from this location. It will be interesting to see what he shares with investigators if he's talking at all.
LEMON: Yes, Ryan, thank you. Chief Ramsey, thank you. As we get more developments on this, we'll update you and we'll get these gentlemen back if it warrants it. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
A huge battle shaping up in this country over voting rights. How far is President Biden willing to go to stop the GOP from pushing voter suppression? Democratic Congressmen James Clyburn weighs in next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): President Biden hitting the road, the salesman in chief kicking off his help is here tour, promoting the nearly $2 trillion COVID relief law. Visiting a small business in Pennsylvania and telling the owners that more help is on the way.
I spoke just before this broadcast about the new law, and about the move by Republicans to restrict voting rights with Congressman James Clyburn, the South Carolina Democrat who is the House majority whip.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Thank you, Congressman, I appreciate you joining us this evening. Let's talk about President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris on the road on their help is here tour. Are people getting the message about what's actually in this plan and how it's going to help them?
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): First of all, thank you very much for having me. I really do think so. I spent the weekend talking to people in South Carolina and Georgia. And they do get it. They understand it. There's some nuances about it that we have to explain to people, a lot of people don't know what we mean by the child tax credit. That sort of thing. When they hear this stuff about lifting half of those children who are
in poverty, and lift half of them out of poverty, they want to know how that works. So, we have some explaining to do, but I think people are getting there. We've got to get beyond this $1,400 direct payment.
That's a great thing, but there's so much more to this legislation that we've got to get people to understanding because if we don't, the other side is going to fill it in with their takes on it and that is not going to be good.
LEMON: Can we please talk, if you will, about Senator Ron Johnson now saying that the left has twisted what he said about the January 6th investigation, that he wasn't concerned by the pro-Trump mob, but would have been, you know, concerned if it was Black Lives Matter or Antifa. How did you hear that?
CLYBURN: I heard it the way he meant it. You know, the moment he said or prefaced his last statement, I know I'm going to get in trouble for this, then went on to say it. Said to me he knew exactly what he was saying, he knew why he was saying it, he knew exactly how the reactions would be. He just didn't care.
The guy is racist. This is not the first time he has indicated such. I would hope that the people of Wisconsin would take note of this and do what they can to help make this country a better place.
Now, I know the history of Wisconsin. When it comes to politics. They have been on both sides of the extremes, extreme right and extreme left. I would hope that they will moderate themselves in the next election and get rid of this right extremist.
[22:35:06]
LEMON: Representative Clyburn, you know, Republicans are laser focused on waging a culture war -- that much is obvious. Do you think that it's part of an overall strategy to energize their base while suppressing the Democratic base with a systemic nationwide attempt to limit voting access?
CLYBURN: Yes, absolutely and we had done that and let them get away with it. It is very clear what their game plan is. They are doing what they can to disparage the backgrounds and the ethnicity of certain people, mostly Black and brown, and on the other side of the coin they're doing whatever they can to suppress the voter participation of certain people, Black and brown.
So what we've got to do is make sure we do not find ourselves being complicit to it and that's why I have been saying, you know, I agree that the filibuster had some value when it was all about extending the bait so that people have time to muster up oppositions but that's not where the filibuster has been in recent years.
It has been there to suppress voters, to deny civil rights and voting rights. We cannot allow the filibuster to be used to deny people access to voting, and political participation. And so, the filibuster must be modified. I'm not saying it has to be eliminated but I am saying we made
exceptions to the filibuster when it came to budgeting and that's what the consideration is all about, reconciliation. But we need to do the same thing when it comes to voting rights and participation in the political process.
LEMON: Do you think that President Biden understands that, do you think he feels that way?
CLYBURN: I don't know that he feels that way but I made sure that I've explained it to all of his staffers how I feel about it. I do not believe that Democrats can go into an election with our base believing that they were denied voting rights because of the filibuster when we had the authority to modify, if not get rid of it. We have the authority to modify and we had better do that or we will pay a hell of a price in two years.
LEMON: Listen, it may be a choice. If it comes down to a choice between the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and the filibuster, which do you think the president will choose?
CLYBURN: He would choose the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. No question about that in my mind. He would rather not have to make that kind of choice. But if it came down to that, I know exactly what he would choose. I have known Joe Biden for a long, long time. He values his relationships in the Senate, but he is committed to making this country work for everybody. And I know how he feels about that.
LEMON: Yes. Well in order to get that he's going to have to do something -- something's going to happen with the Voting Rights Act, right? With the filibuster in order to get the Voting Rights Act. So, we shall see. Or it may have to happen. We'll see. Thank you, Congressman. I appreciate your time.
CLYBURN: Thank you for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (on camera): I should tell you this, that shortly after we spoke President Biden talking late tonight about the question of the filibuster in the Senate, telling ABC that he doesn't believe it has to be eliminated but saying it's getting to the point where democracy is having a hard time functioning.
The president says he supports bringing back the talking filibuster, that means if a senator filibusters and takes control of the floor he or she has to keep talking. Once they stop another senator can move in and take control.
Republicans ramping up the outrage machine, complaining about cancel culture at every opportunity. What does that even mean anymore? My next guest says it's the phrase cancel culture that needs to be cancelled.
[22:40:00]
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LEMON (on camera): Republican Senator Ron Johnson doubling down claiming there was nothing racist about saying he never felt threatened by insurrectionists and white supremacists who attacked the capitol on January 6th but would have been concerned if members of Black Lives Matter stormed the building. Now he's accusing the left of playing the race card against him. OK, whatever.
Let's discuss with CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Max Boot, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. Max, good to see you. Long time no see, are you doing OK?
MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Great to see you, Don. Congratulations on a new book.
LEMON: Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
So, let's talk about Ron Johnson, complaining about cancel culture in a Wall Street Journal op-ed following his racist remarks about January -- the January 6th insurrection. In your new op-ed you think the phrase cancel culture should be cancelled. I can't say that I disagree with you. I hate that catch phrase. Tell me why.
BOOT: It's just become this meaningless phrase, Don, and it really struck me last week of how meaningless it had become when we heard Andrew Cuomo trying to resist calls for his resignation saying that to resign would be cancel culture, would be giving in to cancel culture, where, you know, you could watch Fox News for three straight weeks about how Dr. Seuss is supposedly being cancelled even though the books are not actually being banned.
[22:45:01]
All that's happening is six books are being taken out of print by the Dr. Seuss foundation.
So, you know, the way that cancel culture is being used it doesn't mean anything.
LEMON: Right.
BOOT: It's just become this empty buzz phrase that Republicans and now even some Democrats are basically using, simply to avoid accountability for their own misconduct.
So, I think it's time to retire it, and let's talk about the real issues, whether it's racism or sexism or harassment or violence, whatever those issues are, let's talk about those cases, let's retire this absurd buzz phrase.
LEMON: Right on, Max Boot. Let me -- let's read some of what you write. You said by talking about cancel culture the right can pretend that the real victims in America are white men and that there is nothing wrong with hurtful comments and even hurtful behavior against women or people of color. We should be far more concerned about the threat posed by white supremacists and by sexual harassment and sexual assault, than by the vastly overblown phenomenon of cancel culture.
And yet, if you look at what Senator Ron Johnson and other Republicans are saying they are doubling down right now, Max.
BOOT: Right and this is basically being used as a shield by Ron Johnson for his own misconduct. I mean, what he said, as you've pointed out, Don, it's blatantly racist. He's saying that he was OK with this Trump mob invading the capitol because they supposedly respected law enforcement, these people who were attacking police officers, who killed a police officer, who injured 140 police officers and yet Ron Johnson is saying that he only would have been really scared if Black Lives Matters had invaded the capitol by which of course we know he means African-Americans, right?
This is just such blatant bigotry on his part but he's trying to defend himself by saying in the Wall Street Journal I will not be cancelled. These -- the left is trying to cancel me. Well, nobody is trying to cancel him.
People are just trying to hold him accountable, and, you know, this is such a self-refuting argument on his part, he's appearing on the Wall Street Journal, one of the largest newspapers in the country, and he's claiming that he is being cancelled or censored or shut down. It's absurd.
LEMON: Max, let's talk about the current president. The current president was at a flooring company warehouse in Pennsylvania to sell his rescue plan. Is he essentially betting that Democrats can sway more working-class voters by delivering help, is that their best offense against the politics of division we have right now?
BOOT: Absolutely. And that's -- I think the reason why you see Republicans harping so much on cancel culture, why they're going on and on about Dr. Seuss for week after week is, because they don't have a popular position on the economic stimulus package.
What we're seeing is that Republican voters are supporting the plan passed by the Democratic Congress and now Republican members of Congress are trying to claim credit for it after having voted against it. So Joe Biden right now has much higher approval ratings than Donald Trump ever had, and so, the only way that Republicans can try to hit back and try to divide the country and try to win votes is by claiming that Joe Biden is somehow part of this cabal which is going to cancel American culture.
And all you have to do is take one look at Joe Biden of Scranton, Pennsylvania to realize how absurd that charge actually is.
LEMON: I think it's fascinating how he just ignores them and it drives them crazy. I mean, he does live rent free in their heads. And every -- he just ignores them and they keep trashing him. He just keeps going. It's funny to watch.
BOOT: Yes. I mean, he's just doing the people's business --
LEMON: Yes. BOOT: -- and it's driving the Republicans crazy. They can't figure out how to lay a glove on him, basically.
LEMON: Let's talk about what he is telling George Stephanopoulos, all right? That he thinks that the Republicans are going to have an epiphany between now and 2022. Listen, I'm not sure he's talking about the same Republican Party that we are all seeing here but what do you think the likelihood of that is?
BOOT: I mean, it's very low. I mean, you just saw that the economic rescue package, which is very popular with the whole country, including Republican voters, it passed without a single Republican vote. So, if they're not going to vote, get even a single Republican vote for such a popular piece of legislation in the middle of this crisis, I don't see a high prospect of a lot of bipartisan cooperation.
And I think there's going to be a hard choice that has to be made pretty soon about whether Senate Democrats are going to stick with the filibuster, which is going to allow Mitch McConnell to block any kind of voting rights legislation and which could very well deny Democrats control of both houses of Congress in two years.
LEMON: Max Boot, thank you, sir, thank you for the compliments on the book as well. I really do appreciate it.
BOOT: Looking forward to it.
LEMON: Thank you.
BOOT: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: And since he mentioned it. My new book is out. It came out today, it's called "This is The Fire: What I Say to my Friends About Racism," so I hope you'll check it out.
[22:49:58]
So, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell warning Democrats about ditching the filibuster. He says if they do Republicans will turn the Senate into a 100-car pile-up.
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LEMON (on camera): Take this. The Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell warning Republicans would grind the chamber to a halt if Democrats get rid of the filibuster.
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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: So, let me say this very clearly for all 99 of my colleagues. Nobody serving in this chamber can even begin, can even begin to imagine what a completely scorched earth Senate would look like.
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LEMON (on camera): The filibuster now the center of an epic power battle as Democrats try to pass big legislation with their slim majority of the one-tie breaking vote instead of the 60-vote threshold. It's a major question. What happens with the filibuster?
But there's no question at all about what Mitch McConnell would do. McConnell threatening a scorched earth Senate just means that he would keep up with his usual tactics. And the number two Democrat in the Senate, Dick Durbin, says it is McConnell's use of the filibuster that strangles the Senate.
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SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): If I became skeptical of the filibuster, it is because of your use of it and I hope you understand that you can't have it both ways. It can't be a rare procedure and be a procedure that dominates the actual business of the Senate as this has done for so many years.
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LEMON (on camera): So, remember that Senator McConnell is the one who announced he would do everything he could to make President Barack Obama a one-term president.
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MCCONNELL: Some have said it was indelicate of me to suggest that our top political priority over the next two years should be to denial President Obama a second term.
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LEMON (on camera): That is a nice smirk there, but it didn't work. McConnell infamously blocked former President Obama's Supreme Court pick, Merrick Garland, even though Obama had 11 months left in office. When Democrats won back the House in 2018, they sent bill after bill to the Senate.
Some of them bipartisan and Mitch McConnell refused to take that a huge chunk of them. If the Senate ends up scorched, we all know who lit the match. At least eight people are dead after multiple spa shootings in the Atlanta area. Four of the victims are Asian. One suspect is in custody. We have the latest from the scene, next.
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