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Don Lemon Tonight
Boulder Police Say Shooting Suspect In Custody; Ten Killed In Boulder, Colorado Shooting, Including Police Officer; Don Lemon Interviews Rep. Joe Neguse (D-CO). Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired March 22, 2021 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
LAURA COATES, CNN INTERNATIONAL LEGAL ANALYST (on camera): If you look at the El Paso Walmart shooting, remember they were both state and federal prosecutors involved. That had a different connotation, because there was a hate crime element as well.
But across this country when have a mass shooting at this nature and you have a living suspect, you have the potential for both state and federal charges. Now remember -- (inaudible) --
DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): Laura, sadly, her camera has gone out. But that's Laura Coates, our legal analyst. Laura will be back with us here throughout the evening on CNN. We are going to be continue.
We'll stay on, we are going to stay on with you as long as possible, until we get more information here. Because the details, the details are still pouring in even after the press conference. We're getting new information. Witnesses as well.
It is the top of the hour here on CNN. I'm Don Lemon, thank you for joining us so much. This is CNN TONIGHT. Our breaking news, 10 people including a police officer killed in a mass shooting at a supermarket in Boulder, Colorado. The officer's name is Officer Eric Talley, 51 years old. He had been with the department since 2010.
The other victims have not yet been identified. The suspect who was injured is in custody at this point. Police are questioning him. No information yet on a possible motive and we don't know yet whether the suspect had any connection to any of the victims in this case.
We took you to the White House earlier. We'll get back to the White House a little bit later. The White House has -- President Biden has been briefed on the incident. This is the second deadly mass shooting in the U.S. in one week.
Last week our breaking news we were covering the shooting in Atlanta with eight people who had been shot there. Six of them Asian- Americans. And now here we are, the beginning of this week, we have another mass shooting with 10 people dead. Straight to the scene now. CNN's Lucy Kafanov -- Lucy Kafanov has been on the scene for us in Boulder. She joins us now. Lucy, hello to you once again. The latest on what you're hearing there from the ground. LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): I'll paint a picture of
what happened today as best I can, Don. You know, it's a quiet Monday afternoon. Boulder was expecting a snowstorm so people were out and about doing their errands. The supermarket was in a busy shopping area. There are a lot of shops and restaurants here.
And about 2:30 p.m. Local Time, police said they started getting those phone calls of an active shooter. They described it as someone with a patrol rifle. And so they've dispatched officers to respond to the scene.
51-year-old Eric Talley was one of the first officers to arrive. He unfortunately, lost his life as did nine other individuals killed, senselessly in this mass shooting. We know that this is a complex investigation. Authorities said it's going to take no less than five days to complete. It is not exactly clear what happened.
We have pieces of evidence and sort of bits and bobs from different witnesses. It seems that something started outside. We certainly saw footage of lifeless bodies. At least two outside in the parking lot and one immediately inside that supermarket. One witness who was purchasing a soda and a bag of chips said he texted his wife at about 2:30 and moments later, heard this gunfire. He said he heard a shot.
Other witnesses reported less, others more. This particular witness ran to the back. He said that some of the, you know, the staff there, the employees were helping the patrons, the customers escape from the back. They were filing out in single file line. You know, he was asked how he felt about what happened today. And he was obviously still in shock but he said I thought Boulder was a bubble. And today, that bubble burst.
We still don't know much about the person in custody. We did see footage of an individual who was clearly wounded. He was barely wearing any clothes. He was a white male, he was wearing dark shorts no, shoes, no shirt, bleeding from his leg, and hand cuffed. He was placed into an ambulance and taken away.
Now authorities have not commented on this footage. But hey did say that the only injury tonight, today, was the person of interest in this case, and that person is now in custody. Everyone else who was shot, lost their lives, tragically, including Eric Talley, 51 years old. He's been with the department since 2010.
LEMON: Lucy Kafanov at the scene with the very latest. Lucy, I want you to standby, we'll get back to you momentarily as well. And at the top of the 10:00 hour, I spoke with a grandfather whose two granddaughters and his son-in-law were in the store at the time. He' son-in-law was in line to get a COVID shot. So, he was third in line and all of the sudden he hear this shots.
The son-in-law grabbed the two girls, seven and eight years old, run up stairs, hid in a coat closet with a number of other shoppers in the store for about 45 minutes, until the all-clear was given. Just a horrific scene there with people frightened beyond belief, obviously, inside of that store. And now we have nine people plus a police officer, 10 people killed in this shooting.
[23:05:08]
I want to bring in now Democratic Congressman, Joe Neguse of Colorado, he joins us now live. Congressman, thank you so much, I appreciate you joining us. Another shooting in tonight, it is in your community. I know that your heartbroken, so, our thoughts are with you, but I want you to give us your thoughts on this.
REP. JOE NEGUSE (D-CO) (on the phone): Yes, good evening Don, it is just devastating. It's a devastating night for our state, and for my community, here in Boulder Colorado. I've lived in Boulder County for two decades, my wife was born in Boulder. We went to school in Boulder. This is our home, it's our community, and we are so heartbroken at the terrible and senseless loss of life as it happened today.
And do more with the families and our constituents, who tragically died today and of course, the family of Officer Talley whose heroic efforts saved lives, as you heard from the police chief during the press conference. So, it's a tough day for Boulder, it's a tough day for Colorado, it's a tough day for our country.
LEMON: As a representative there, as I said, as I was introducing you, this is your community. I know this is tough to do, but will you take us through the days ahead? What do they look like?
NEGUSE: Well, look, I think, you know, the focus now as you heard from the district attorney, and from the police chief is obviously they are doing everything that they can, with their abilities to ensure justice. Obviously from our perspective, our officers, you know, hear them ensure federal resources are available to them. We've been in touch with the district attorney, with the mayor, with the police chief.
And really, helping our community grieve. This is a terrible, terrible tragedy and you think about the loss of life. It's just unimaginable to think that 10 Coloradoans, 10 folks here in my community lost their lives today. So there is going to be a lot of healing over the coming days and weeks and months ahead.
And we'll certainly be here to help the victims and help our constituents. Colorado is a strong state, Boulder is a strong community. It's a resilient community. We'll get through this together and I know we are going to lift each other up as we grieve together.
LEMON: In your statement tonight, you noted how you were a young student when Columbine happened 10 minutes from your high school. A couple of years ago, your niece, a kindergartner had to lockdown. What do you think needs to happen in order to stop this? What do we need to do as a country and especially our lawmakers need to do in order to get a handle on these situations?
NEGUSE: Well, look, I don't think there's any question, Don. I mean, there's still a lot we don't know yet about the events of today. But one thing is very clear. And it's that these tragic incidents of gun violence have plagued our country for far too long. And you mentioned that the tragedies, the mass shootings that had occurred here in Colorado, with Columbine and Aurora, the STEM school shooting in Highland Ranch where I grew up.
I think that there a lot of us who believe that enough is enough and that it is time for the Congress to finally act and to do something about gun violence in our country. Too many lives have been lost. I just, you know, I know, there are a lot of Americans who feel the same frustration and anger that I do tonight. That Americans should be able to feel safe in their grocery stores.
They should be able to feel safe in their schools and their movie theaters. And what Congress did (inaudible) with meaningful gun violence reform, Americans are losing their lives. So, it is time to act. And it's time for action (inaudible). And I'm certainly going to continue to push for that with my colleagues.
LEMON: But quite honestly you said Americans should feel safe but, I mean, we aren't safe. And this is, you know, this is exhibit a. We're not safe, Congressman.
NEGUSE: Yes. I think its case in point of why we need so desperately to enact reform at the federal state and local level. And our communities are trying and I think it is about time that the Congress to do its part.
LEMON: Yes. Congressman Joe Neguse, Congressman, again, I'm so sorry about what has happened in your community there. We're all thinking about you. And as we continue to cover this, we will be thinking about you and others who are involved and specially the family members of all the victims there. Thanks for your time. We appreciate it.
NEGUSE: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you. I want to bring in now Dan Oates, he is the former police chief for the Aurora Colorado police department. Chief, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. Sorry about what has happened here. Here we go again as I've been saying all evening here. I was reporting live from Aurora, I mean which feels like not so long ago even though it was almost 10 years ago. We now know that 10 people were killed including police officer Eric Talley, on the force since 2010.
We understand that he was the first person on the scene to respond. Talk to me about what that does to a department as they have to investigate this terrible scene and losing one of their own at the same time.
DAN OATES, FORMER POLICE CHIEF, AURORA POLICE DEPARTMENT (on camera): Well, first of all, it is not just the department. It is a cataclysmic event for an entire city. And I guarantee you that you know, folks in Las Vegas, El Paso, Orlando, Parkland, Aurora, all those communities are feeling tremendous anguish tonight.
[23:10:07] For the department, the response to the event, all the cops, among
everyone else on that community are victimized by this tragedy and how horrific it is. And then on top of it, to lose an officer is also a cataclysmic event. So the thing for the department to do, and you saw a little of that from the chief tonight is to work through it.
First of all, clearly the threat has been eliminated. And the community has been reassured that, about that. And now it is about two things. It's about serving the victims and in serving the victims and the victim's families, the cops can find some measure of comfort in delivering, you know, what they're there to do.
And the other thing is the investigation. Now, this is one of the events like ours in Aurora where there is a person under arrest and they've got to get a conviction. And that organization will go through the effort and the anguish of doing everything they can to ensure a conviction.
But there will be no, nothing approaching closure for that police department until this guy is convicted. So that's the kind of effort that's going to be underway in the days ahead and the weeks and the months and the years ahead. Because it will probably be a year or two before there's a trial.
LEMON: Just to show you the emotional impact, vivid evidence of the emotional impact, we can put up moments ago, the officer' body being removed from the scene. And he is being saluted by law enforcement, member's of law enforcement there on the scene as his body was taken away.
So listen. It is, as you said, it's an entire city, an entire state that's having to deal with this. Because they have to deal with these tragedies before. But the impact is closer to home for the families obviously and for the members of the police department. You were the police chief in Aurora, Colorado, when that mass shooting happened at that movie theater. How critical are the moments when police arrive on the scene? Because as we were told, Officer Talley was the first officer on the scene when he was shot.
OATES: And I will tell you, it is probably not a better prepared law enforcement community in the United States than the Denver metro law enforcement community. Having been through Columbine, having been through Aurora, and the focus on that, I can tell you from my time in that community, that they were as prepared, and determined, to never to have an event like Columbine happen again.
And although we are trained to respond in teams, we are also trained, that if you are the first officer on scene and there is active shooting going on, that you are to go in there, and confront the threat. And almost certainly, that is what Officer Talley bravely did.
And that is a measure of his training, the courage that he possesses, and the commitment of that police department to that community. So -- but, that is what cops are trained to do. Was go to the threat, and eliminate is quickly as possible. LEMON: Officer Eric Talley, on the forces, 2010, 51 years old. What
you are hearing is just some natural sound from the video of the time when this was all unfolding, Dan. Dan, you know, we learned that suspect was being treated for injuries. How soon could he be questioned by law enforcement? Do you think it is happening right now?
OATES: It may be. It depends on whether or not he exercised his, you know, rights, and how he is being treated. And Don, I wanted to point out, you know, in addition to Officer Talley, there are nine families tonight who don't have certainty about their loved ones. They probably having trouble getting answers, it's probably a crime scene that has to be worked, and if they're going to get a conviction, that crimes scenes has to be worked thoroughly.
I will tell you, when this is probably happening right now, in the Aurora theater shooting, the cops who are guarding the bodies in the theater heard the incessant ring of cellphones from families trying to reach their loved ones. And that is just one example of how painful, and tragic, and catastrophic this kind of event is for a community, and for families. And that is the kind of anguish that is going on tonight in Boulder.
LEMON: You are right on. As they were giving the press conference and saying that they were as hard as possible, Dan, to identify the victims, and get in touch with their families. I was saying off-air to my producers, can you imagine if you hadn't heard from a family member in that area right now?
Just the anguish you are facing trying to frantically get in touch with them? Calling cellphones? Possibly even driving around till now looking for them? I just -- this is just horrendous to even think about. Dan, thank you so much, I appreciate you joining.
OATES: You bet.
[23:15:02]
LEMON: So, I want to bring in now the former homeland security official, Juliette Kayyem, Cedric Alexander, back with us as well, he is the former President of the national organization of black law enforcement executives. Hello to both of you.
Again, Juliette, let's talk about this. 10 people are dead, including a hero police officer. What are investigators doing right now at this moment to try to figure out the motive of the shooter, they're not just talking to him and asking him what his motive is, there are other things that they are doing to try to determine what the motive is?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (on camera): Right, so, I'm concern about two things right now. One is of course him and his motive and what was he writing, who was he talking to, was this a crime that involved someone that he knew or a facility that he knew? We don't know that right now. The police department was quite clear that they felt like there was no continuing threat. That may be based on what they know least right now. The second issue is one we can't forget, which is the second mass
shooting in as many weeks. And they happen in this country. We know that. This country has been under stress for the last year. And we local and state officials need to be prepared for the potential that there might be increased violence in the spring and summer as people emerge from the pandemic and people are outside more. They're congregating in supermarkets.
I mean, you wouldn't have had a supermarket that crowded just even four or five months ago. So those are my two concerns. The specific one, which is motive and then the homeland security one, which is are we facing something bigger in the months to come because of access to guns that kill lots of people very, very quickly.
And that's a debate we have every single time and the NRA always says it is too soon. It is not too soon. There is a through line that you and I have had been through for the last five or six years which is guns that kill very, very quickly have no place and serve no purpose except for mass casualty events like we've seen.
LEMON: Cedric, I'm looking through my notes here, because the D.A. said something about how they were meticulously going through the crime scene and that they were going to be very judicious about the information they gave out because they wanted the investigation to be solid, right? They don't want to compromise any investigation. If you will take us to the crime scene right now and what they're doing, what they're looking for. Take us behind the scenes.
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (on camera): Well, if we were to go behind the scenes at this very moment, they're probably inside that store taking a number of photographs. Certainly collecting whatever video footage that they can. Interviewing witnesses, probably into the night and of course, trying to identify those who lost their lives. So this is going to be ongoing throughout tonight, into tomorrow, into the next number of days and weeks to come.
I think what the D.A. there was trying to articulate is that they're going to be very cautious. They are going to be very careful. They are going to be very deliberate and very focused to make sure in their collection of evidence to bring this subject to justice, to make sure that they have everything that they need in order to do so.
And that takes you being very deliberate. And it takes you slowing things down and being very strategic and being very judicious in this case. So I think his words were very kindly strong in terms of making sure that justice is served in this case, as it should be.
LEMON (on camera): Yes. He said that we promise to bring justice. They are going to work as hard as they can. The shooter is in custody and they are going to be very careful about the information released from the crime scene and again, they don't want to compromise an investigation here. I want to listen now if we will to the police chief in Boulder at this press conference at the top of the last hour. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARIS HEROLD, CHIEF, BOULDER POLICE: We know of 10 fatalities at the
scene including one of our Boulder P.D. officers by the name of Eric Talley who has been on the Boulder police department since 2010. He served in numerous roles supporting the Boulder police department and the community of Boulder.
And I have to tell you, the heroic action of this officer when he responded to this scene at 1430 hours, the Boulder police department began receiving phone calls of shots fired in the area. And a phone call about a possible person with a patrol rifle. Officer Talley responded to the scene. He was the first on the scene and he was fatally shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:20:05]
LEMON (on camera): You can feel the weight that she is carrying and that the entire department and community are carrying there in Boulder, Colorado. I mean, my heart goes out to her. I can't imagine standing there when one of your own, and I'm sure she feels responsibility because she is the leader, right? And I know in police departments, the buck stops here at the top. That's how they do, that's what they do in police departments. They take responsibility for their own when one is shot in the actions there.
Cedric, I just want to ask you real quick before I get back to Juliette. When she said, someone with a patrol rifle, right? She said a patrol rifle, does that give you any indication of something? Because I've never heard a patrol rifle. I've heard someone with a long rifle, someone with a gun, a semi-automatic weapon. But she specifically said a patrol rifle. Should we be adding anything into that?
ALEXANDER: No. The patrol rifle in the police cultures often times very simply the AR15, which is often carried by patrol officers who qualify with that weapon. Of course, that is a high-powered, high- capacity weapon, long rifle, if you will, that has a muzzle velocity of well over 2,000 feet per second.
If that officer who approached that scene today was probably at a technical disadvantage coming up on that scene and to be confronted by a rifle with such, certainly was very dangerous and very well made what have cost him his life.
That's what she means by patrol rifle. But let me add this, my heart goes out to that chief and her department. A loss of a member of her department and that community at large. Because I can tell you, being a chief, any time that you lose one of your people, it really hurts you to the bottom of your heart, because you're responsibility for people in that community that you're sworn to keep safe.
And 10 people lost their lives and you lost an officer on top of it. So my heart goes out to that chief. And I think we saw it. She kept herself together. But this has got to be real tough for her as it is for many of us. LEMON: No doubt. You are absolutely right. I want to you stand by,
because I want to get back with you in just moments here. I just want to tell our viewers again, 10 people dead in Boulder Colorado, including a police officer. You could see snow is still on the ground there. From the earlier pictures and snow beginning to fall. We have flurries in Boulder, Colorado.
As this horrific scene, the shooting is still playing out. Their still trying to get some answers. Investigators, one would imagine, interviewing the suspect now. I know that the suspect was injured according to the people who spoke at the press conference an hour ago, and that he was being treated but according to our law enforcement analyst, most likely he is being interviewed right now.
They're trying to figure out his motivation for killing 10 people today in a supermarket, just out completing their everyday chores. The officer came in to help and was shot, the first on the scene. We'll be right back with our breaking news. Quick break.
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[23:25:00]
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LEMON: Here we are again reporting to you on another mass shooting. The supermarket shooting in Boulder is the second mass shooting in a week in Atlanta. Police have yet to announce a motive in the shootings at three spas that killed eight people including six women of Asian descent. The suspect too is in custody, facing eight murder charges, he has not yet been charged with hate crimes. Georgia's Governor signed a new hate crime bill into law within the past year.
Let's discuss this now. I want to bring in BJay Pak, he is a lawyer representing the sons of one of the women who was murdered. B.J., thank you so much. BJay is also, by the way, the former U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia. Again, I appreciate you coming on. Let's talk about this. First, as a former U.S. Attorney, can I get your reaction to this latest deadly shooting tonight coming less than a week after the shooting in Atlanta?
BJAY PAK, PARTNER, ALSTON & BIRD: I'm very disappointed and very sad, obviously. But I think everyone knows that this is becoming all too frequent of an incident. And I suspect that we're going to have another one in the near future.
LEMON: Yeah. Sadly. The funeral for your client's mother is on Friday. Tell me about the two brothers and how they are holding up.
PAK: As you can imagine, it is a very, very tough time for them. They were very close to their mother. In particular, the younger son, Bobby. And because he did live in Atlanta. Elliott was obviously deployed, he was in the army. And so he was in Japan flying back and forth. This is a very, very tough time for them.
Not just because of the loss of their mother but I think you're seeing in the forefront this kind of, how the identity politics and also racism faced by particular minority groups. And my clients, you know Bobby and Elliott are half black and half Asian. And I think they still have a very unique perspective on this in light of what happened last year and along with this recent event in Atlanta.
LEMON: Yeah. Speaking of last year, last year a new hate crimes law was passed in Georgia. Under this law, both race and gender are categories that constitute a hate crime there. But why has law enforcement been so hesitant to call this shooting a hate crime?
PAK: I think the investigation is continuing, Don, and I wouldn't rule that out. And they made that very clear. Right now the only publicized evidence of a motive is the statement by the defendant himself. Law enforcement made clear, after us pointing out, that, you know, investigation is not done.
[23:30:01]
They're not accepting the defendant's explanation as the sole explanation. And I know for a fact, just given my experience in my past posts (ph) and knowing what the FBI and also local enforcement does, they're going -- they're combing through some of the social media and some of the past activities of the Senate to try to find a motive to prove a hate crime.
And as one of the community leaders and representing one of the victims, we have let them know that we expect and we demand a hate crime charge if the evidence supports it.
LEMON: BJay, anti-Asian violence continues to rise in this country. Can you talk to me about the impact that this shooting has had on the local Asian community?
PAK: Well, first let me point out that, you know, hate incidents and hate crimes against Asians have been happening for decades. It's not a recent phenomenon. It just happens in the last year, the incidents have become more visible because we've been tracking it.
Obviously, what happened last week with respect to the murder of eight people, majority being Asian females, has really brought to the forefront the discussions about why there are is such so many incidents of hate against Asians.
Our community here are very shaken. They are shaken to the core. A lot of folks are afraid to go outside to open their businesses. And right now, they're hurting. And we're looking for justice and hopefully bring some closure and start a movement and continue to amplify why we need to stop all forms of hate.
LEMON: BJay, I have to ask you this because in January, you abruptly left your job as a U.S. attorney for the northern district of Georgia. This is just after the fallout over that phone call in which President Trump pressured Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to find votes to overturn the election in the state. Can you tell us why you left your job at that time? PAK: Oh, Don, unfortunately because of the ongoing investigation both by the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, and Fulton County District Attorney's Office, I can't comment on that right now.
LEMON: So, nothing. There's nothing you can speak to us about as it relates to that?
PAK: Well, other than the fact that, you know, as a political appointee, I serve at the pleasure of the president. At this point, I can't comment beyond that.
LEMON: OK. Republican lawmakers in Georgia are racing to enact this sweeping voting restriction that would limit voting access. It comes following President Trump's false claims of widespread voter fraud and that the election was stolen and so on and so forth. You're very well aware of that. Some are still pushing that narrative, though. Is that damaging to our democracy?
PAK: Certainly, I think when you have a group of folks who don't have confidence in the voting system, whether or not it is true, I don't have anything specific reason to believe that there was anything wrong with the investigation -- with the election system. When I was U.S. attorney, I did not see any of that.
At the same time, I think that the bills, I think they're changing as we speak, in the last week -- last few days of the legislative session. We have to see what happens.
As to their motivation why the bills need to be filed, you're going to have to ask the state legislature for that.
LEMON: Mm-hmm. You said -- you said about integrity in -- in the voting system. I mean, the only reason that people have questions about the integrity of the voting system is because of the lie that has been spread. I mean, even you said that you saw no irregularities that would amount to widespread voter fraud.
So, the enacting or trying to enact these laws, it just seems counterintuitive when you actually know what really happened with the election and the security of the -- of the electoral process.
PAK: Well, I mean, I think in every election, there's some irregularity. It's not -- I've never seen a mass irregularity. I think that there was some concern about the security of some of the mail-in ballots.
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
PAK: I don't have any specific details as to reason why the new bills were filed other than what has been publicly reported. But I do think that in general, voting access is very important and I do hope that it would be expanded rather than trying to restrict.
LEMON: Yeah. PAK: But at the same time, I think that they need to balance the security of who can vote. It is one of the more important rights that we enjoy as Americans. But that's actually in the purview of the state general assembly. So we have to see what they pass.
LEMON: Yeah. Bjay Pak, thank you for your time. Thanks for coming on CNN. I'm sorry it is under these circumstances. I appreciate it.
I want to bring in now CNN's Laura Coates, our legal analyst here. Laura, welcome back to the program. We learned that one of the victims is Officer Eric Talley, 51 years old. His photograph here, if we can get it, we can put it up. We'll get it up in a second. As they get it up, we will reference it, Laura.
[23:34:58]
LEMON: These investigators are going to be working tirelessly to build a case against the suspect tonight on behalf of Officer Talley and those nine other victims.
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. And they should. You know, it's very rare in these mass shooting cases these days, unfortunately, we've had a number to choose from now, that you have a living suspect.
And so you're going to have both federal and state who are going to be vey eager to try to evaluate this case, try to understand his motives. Is there a federal crime they can attach it to? Most of the time, homicide cases are the purview of the state, but it doesn't mean it is always the case or there will never be a federal prosecution.
And so if there was something about targeting the law enforcement officer about a particular demographic or anything like that or if there were something underlying in the crime that demonstrates a federal hook, all of that could be possible here.
And so this is going to be a really vigorous investigation. It should be lives were lost. I think to myself, Don, earlier today, I was at the grocery store and my daughter begged me to come, and I said no, I'll be home soon. Now, think about all the people who did not return tonight, whose daughters are waiting, whose sons are waiting, whose loved ones are waiting there for their loved one to come home.
And why? We have no idea yet, but we do know that this appears to be a truly senseless act of violence and it was one that should be prosecuted and hopefully can be at this juncture.
LEMON: As I said just moments ago, you know, because they're still working -- last we knew to identify the victims and to notify the next of kin. Can you imagine, you know, waiting and waiting to hear the whereabouts or any information about your loved one?
There's a picture now, Laura, of Officer Talley up on the screen. A young, handsome guy, prime of life, 51 years old, you know, a heroic police officer, that's how the police chief described him, going in to try the save some lives or just on the scene to see what happened, losing his life in the process.
Prosecutors there, they've got a lot to contend with and this is only just beginning.
COATES: That's so true, Don. And of course, one thing that is interesting to note here, you know, last year, Colorado took the death penalty off the table, abolishing it, becoming one of a number of states to do so. And now we know that even if there are federal charges, the anticipation is for the president, Joe Biden, to continue or extend the moratorium.
And so you have the ability to, if it is a homicide charge to the degree you're talking about, the idea of what they'll be prosecuting and pursuing will all come into fruition here. But this is such a tragedy. I mean, the numbers, as we all waited for the press conference to come, to hear the news, to only have the information and to know that 10 people's lives were lost is just so heart-wrenching.
And the nation, as you know, as you talked to your last guest, is still reeling from a shooting from last week. And many people are still reeling from the shootings of last year and before that. This is a continuing thing that's happening. It begs -- it begs the members of Congress and so many people around this nation to really do something about it.
The thoughts and prayers will not be enough to satisfy or placate. They never should be. We have to take decisive action. One way to do it now with a living suspect is through prosecution. And I hope they're able to have a comprehensive investigation. And to the extent that they're able to pursue justice for these families and for a grieving nation, they'll be able to do that.
LEMON: Listen. I just remember my grandmother saying it from time to time but never in succession. I'm sure if she were alive today, she would be saying, baby, you never know. You just never know.
COATES: You never know.
LEMON: You never know, in a supermarket, buying groceries. Laura, thank you for relating that as well and your day in the supermarket, talking to your daughter, I'll be home soon, honey, and then just imagine, that really brings it home and puts it into perspective about what families are feeling, especially all over -- many families are feeling in Colorado tonight and other families saying there but for the grace of god, right?
Thank you so much, Laura. I appreciate it.
COATES: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you. Can we put the picture of the officer back up, because this is -- this personalizes it, it brings it home? There's the officer who the police chief said is heroic, the officer who died in this horrific shooting.
This is breaking news here on CNN. That is Officer Eric Talley, 51 years old, been with the Boulder Police Department since 2010, the first officer to respond to that shooting in the supermarket this afternoon, shot, lost his life. The suspect is in custody. They're asking him now, why? We'll be right back.
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[23:40:00]
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LEMON: This is our breaking news tonight on CNN. Ten people, including a police officer, killed in a mass shooting at a Boulder, Colorado supermarket. A suspect is now in custody. The president has been briefed.
Joining me now is CNN's White House correspondent John Harwood and political analyst Astead Herndon. Gentlemen, good evening. Quite honestly, last thing I thought I would be talking to you about. It is awful, what's going on. We should all be sickened. And we need to figure out what to do about this problem.
John, take us to the White House. Respond to this tragic shooting tonight. What are you hearing?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We haven't heard from the president. We've heard from the press secretary, Jen Psaki, who said that President Biden has been briefed on the situation. His team is going to keep him abreast of updated information. We can expect that tomorrow, Joe Biden will perform the presidential function of sharing the grief of the nation, consoling the victims.
[23:45:04]
HARWOOD: This is something that comes very naturally to him because of all the grief and suffering that he has experienced in his own life. The question beyond that is whether or not it shakes up Joe Biden's agenda. Gun control, gun safety, has not been at the forefront of his agenda.
He, of course, ran on things like reinstating the assault weapons ban, which was passed when he was a senator, had the judiciary committee early in the Clinton administration that then expired. But he's got a major infrastructure program that he's about to push. He just pushed the American Rescue Plan.
Does he change the order of action and what approach does he take to doing it? Because this is a situation where there is going to be a roadblock republican opposition. What can you do with only democratic votes? Maybe not all that much.
LEMON: Yeah. Well, let's talk about that, Astead, about the time, when to act, when to do something, when to have this conversation, right, because we hear it all the time after the shootings. Many will say, well, this is not the time.
We need to talk about the victims. Of course, we all -- we always need to keep the victims' top of mind and keep the story focused on them. But we somehow never end up really having productive conversations about what happens and what to do to try to stop these shootings. There have been two, Astead, in this country in less than a week. Do you think this is going to push the Biden administration to move on gun control, to move it to the top of their agenda?
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: In some ways, it feels like it has to as these tragedies continue to happen, that it forces items to the top of the agenda. On the other hand, it feels so baked into the American political system, the American rhetoric at this moment that it is another mass shooting that we have become somewhat used to these happening on such a consistent basis that you wonder what it will take to get action on this front.
I mean, let us not forget there has been huge moments of real national outcry on these issues. I'm thinking about after Sandy Hook, I'm thinking about after the school shooting in Florida and others. We had a massive march on the Capitol, one that I was there for with deeply emotional experience. You had stuff that happened in the states on the front. But you cannot move past the partisan gridlock on this question. It will become very clear to Joe Biden.
As for the rest of his agenda, either he is comfortable moving with democratic votes alone, either he is comfortable over going the Senate filibuster to act on these issues or they will not happen, he will meet the same fate of his Democratic predecessor when he ran up against a Washington that really is not built right now to handle the kind of scope of issues that the country faces.
Will Joe Biden go above and beyond that is the only open question, I think, that matters for the rest of that agenda.
LEMON: Let's talk a little bit more about this, Astead, because the AR-15 is the semiautomatic assault rifle that has been used in many of these shootings over the years, popular gun with owners, and it has been a huge focus of debate. This specific weapon is a major, major, major hot button issue for an already extremely divided country, as you just mentioned, and divided lawmakers, Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill.
HERNDON: Exactly. It's not a question of evidence or knowledge base about what happened on these fronts. Democrats have made it a priority to be clear. In the presidential primary, this was a point of contention, actually a shared point of agreement from a lot of the Democratic candidates, saying, this is going to be, you know, banning assault weapons would have to be a priority.
You know, Joe Biden talked about his passing it in the 1990s with the crime bill. He used to hear him say all the time on the trail I'm the one who has actually beaten the NRA. Well, he did that in a completely different Senate, in a completely different political environment.
And if he wants to beat the NRA, again, right, if he wants to kind of galvanize the Democratic Party on that front, that is going to take a different time of negotiating. It will not be a horse trade with Republicans in the same way that we think we have gotten, that he was used to in the 1990s. It will likely have to take him going above and beyond over the concerns of Republicans and kind of have to do that through the elimination of the filibuster.
That have been things that he is not completely comfortable with, that members of his own party, the Joe Manchins, the Kyrsten Sinemas have not been comfortable with, but it is the central question to whether these big agenda items will get passed or whether they won't.
LEMON: So let's put a face on what Astead is talking about, John, OK? Just the gridlock that has happened and is surely to happen on this issue, it would be great if it didn't, but from past history, you know, shows us anything that it will be.
John, so the Republican congresswoman, Lauren Boebert, of Colorado, this is what she tweeted out tonight. Again, she is from Colorado.
[23:50:00]
LEMON: She says, my prayers are with shoppers, employees, first responders, and others affected by the shooting in Boulder. May God be with them. While we are still awaiting important information and details in this case, random public shootings and senseless acts of violence are never OK.
OK, so she is known for her videos that showed her walking around D.C., talking about carrying her weapon, and is all about the right to have powerful weapons. How is this going to play?
HARWOOD: Well, look. It's going to put pressure on Republicans for a moment. But as Astead just pointed out, we've had this over and over and over and over again in our system.
But I do think the critical point is whether or not it motivates the Democratic Party to, along with the other issues that have been thwarted by the inability to get 60 votes, Republican votes in the Senate, whether that motivates the Democrats to get rid of this filibuster.
Remember, we've only had -- the last two Democratic presidents have only had two years of their party controlling the Congress. Bill Clinton did -- in '93 and '94, he passed the Brady Bill, the assault- weapons ban, and then they lost the Congress. Not only because of that. It might have been a contributing factor. But they lost control of Congress. So, that was the end of his period to really set the agenda legislatively.
Barack Obama had two years before he lost control of the House. He was completely consumed with health care and recovery from the Wall Street financial crisis.
Now, Joe Biden, with narrow -- narrower House majorities than either of those two started with, is looking at the possibility of losing control of Congress after two years.
So, Democrats have to decide, what can we get done in these two years and is it possible that what we get done will let us have longer than two years? But the only way they are going to get some of these things done, as Astead pointed out, is if they blow through that Senate filibuster.
And the question is do they want to do it for this issue? You've got voting rights. You've got the infrastructure package, a major investment in both physical infrastructure and human infrastructure, a lot of tough decisions for Democrats. They are very unified right now. They are more ideologically coherent than they were when Bill Clinton was governing or even Barack Obama.
And so, they've shown, through the COVID relief bill, they can stick together on something really big. Is -- does this fall into that category? Banning assault weapons draws 60 percent support in the polls. Background checks draw support even higher than that. But determined minorities have been able to stop this in the past. And some Democrats are gun shy about the -- forgive the pun -- are shy about taking up this issue.
So there is a question of whether they would be willing to do this, even if they got rid of the filibuster. But that's part of the decision facing both Joe Biden and the democratic caucus.
LEMON: I think you are right on gun shy. They are shy about moving on and doing something really substantial when it comes to this sort of legislation. Listen. This has to stop. And they need to come together and figure out how to do it. Perhaps, as Astead said, Joe Biden will be different in this moment. We will see in the coming days.
Thank you very much. Coming days, weeks, and months. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Appreciate it.
Two mass shootings in the week in this country. Tonight, 10 people, including a police officer, are dead in a Boulder, Colorado supermarket.
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[23:55:00]
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UNKNOWN (voice-over): 136, we're in a gunfight, hold the radio. 136, still multiple shots being fired at us. I copy, we're taking multiple rounds.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): We were taking rifle fire, as soon as we patrol, entered the building. If we can get the rolling shield up here ASAP, that would be perfect. Start pushing slow, but be advised we do not know where he is. He's armed with a rifle. Our officers shot back and returned fire. We do not know where he is in the store.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, that is the 911 call from that shooting, that you were listening to there -- from the police scanner, I should say, the police scanner traffic from the shooting in the supermarket.
Joining me now is former homeland security official Juliette Kayyem and Cedric Alexander. Cedric is the former president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives. Good evening again to both of you.
So, Juliette, let's talk about that police scanner audio. Chaotic scene, this was a very chaotic scene.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL, PROFESSOR AT HARVARD'S KENNEDY SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT: Absolutely. It's what we call situational awareness or lack thereof. You -- they have -- they are hearing from people about a shooter. They don't know if there's one, two, or three. They may already know that a police officer is down.
So, you're hearing a cautious voice saying, we simply don't know what's inside, so we are -- we are going to go in with force at this stage. They didn't know where he was. They don't want other people killed in friendly fire.
So, this was, you know, the -- the nature of these attacks now is that they're recorded in real time, and so you just hear -- hear people trying to figure out what we call situational awareness.
LEMON: What are you hearing when you -- when you hear that police scanner traffic, Cedric?
ALEXANDER: Well, I'll tell you, for me, it brings back a lot of unfortunate memories because, you know, just listening to that traffic officers responding to the scene, taking gunfire just does something to you, if you've been in this business before.
