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Don Lemon Tonight

Biden Calls For Stricter Gun Laws And Background Checks; Suspected Gunman Faces 10 Counts Of Murder; Police Source Say, AR-15 Style Pistol Used In Shooting; Interview With Rep. Lucy McBath (D-GA); Interview With Sen. Alex Padilla (D-CA); Interview With The Mayor Of Boulder Colorado, Sam Weaver; Sidney Powell Claims 'No Reasonable People' Would Believe Her Election Fraud Claims; Plans For Reparations Gain Momentum Nationally As Illinois City Approves Housing Reparations Program. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired March 23, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): President Joe Biden saying he is devastated that the murder of 10 people at the supermarket in Boulder Colorado. He's calling on Congress to immediately enact stricter gun laws, including banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines and closing loopholes and background checks. Boulder police saying the 21-year-old suspect who is in custody faces 10 counts of first-degree murder, but they do not yet know the motive for the mass shooting.

His first court appearance is Thursday morning. Boulder is a city in mourning tonight, the victims ranging in age from 20 to 65. Straight to CNN's Kyung Lah in Boulder for us tonight with the very latest on the investigation. Kyung, good evening to you. Investigators are still in the early stages of figuring out exactly what the motivation was behind the shooting. What can you tell us about the suspect so far?

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, we know his name is Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa. We know his 21 years old and that he grew up in the Denver suburbs, about 30 minutes away from here. What we don't know is his connection to this place and why he decided to come to this particular grocery store.

We are starting to learn more about his background. His brother tells us that he was struggling with what appeared to be mental illness that he was growing increasingly more paranoid, that he was worried about cameras looking at him, that he had posted in Facebook that he thought his old high school had hacked into his phone. And we spoke to a friend of his who said, you know this is a friend he's known since the fifth grade. Said that he been bullied about being a Muslim. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAMIEN CRUZ, FRIEND OF BOULDER SHOOTING SUSPECT: He was always quiet. Very approachable. He was just a cool guy, you know like, he had his energies, though. Every does. He had this negative vibe to him. Always stuck to him. You could sense it, but he's approachable at the same time. He was never really aggressive, but if you made him aggressive, he was over the top with being aggressive. He would throw things, he would just have a tantrum, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH (on camera): And what his friend did not expect, Don, is that he would grab a weapon and come here to a place where people are just trying to grocery shop, Don.

LEMON: It is amazing, as I ask this next question, I can't help it, I'm just -- I'm floored by the memorial behind you, the makeshift memorial that we've seen too many times in person an in television, Kyung. And that -- you know, its 10 people who are dead. What are we learning about them?

LAH: Yes, you know, the grocery store is on the other side of this fence. This is a protective barrier to keep, you know, the investigation which is on the other side of this fence, away from the public. But look at what's happened here. These are the names of all the victims. People throughout the day have completely covered this fence with flowers, with candles, and remembering the people who died. 10 people in this community between the ages of 20 to 65 years old.

Three of victims, employees of this supermarket. One of them, a Boulder police officer. He was one of the first responding officers, a father of seven. The others, people who make up the fabric of this community. A small business owner, a woman who had just been engaged at age 49 for the very first time.

So what you're seeing here is unfortunately, something that is becoming very familiar. There's also anger in this community amid all this grief, saying this is what we do now. That when these murders happen, people know, go to your flower shop, drop a note, and lay the flowers outside the crime scene. Don.

LEMON: Yes. You're right. I just read that one. We bleed, we grieve, we love, we will never forget. One of the messages that displayed where Kyung is. Kyung, thank you so much. We appreciate your reporting.

I want to bring in now Congresswoman Lucy McBath of Georgia. This story is really personal for her. We met back in 2012, 2013 after this happened. In 2012, her son Jordan, was shot and killed at a gas station in Florida, and she joins me now. Congresswoman, thank you, I know it's a tough time. Every time you have to talk about this, I'm sure you relive what happened to your son.

You know the heartbreak that these families are feeling tonight after losing Jordan to gun violence in 2012. What goes through your mind after hearing that another mass shooting, the second one in a week's time?

[23:05:04]

REP. LUCY MCBATH (D-GA) (on camera): And you know, and of course, Don, just two weeks ago I was with you talking about the passage of gun safety legislation, but you know, every single time there's a shooting, we're glued to our television screens as we see images of children running out of schools or people running out of parks. You know, or people running out of stores.

And then the cameras are showing, you know, the aftermath of these horrific tragedies and we see you know, politicians offering over and over and over again these baseless platitudes. You know, I'm offering you -- we offer you our thoughts and prayers. Our prayers are with you. But still there is no action, and this is despicable.

And to everyone who says over and over again, we are offering you our thoughts and prayers. If you're going to ingest faith in this, what I know to be true is that faith without works is dead. Absolutely dead. And my colleagues continue to sit on their hands in Washington. There are so many families that go through vigil after vigil after vigil, candle light vigils, mourning the ones that they have lost.

And since I'd even lost my own son in 2012 there's been thousands more people that have continue to die by unnecessary gun violence. We know that over a hundred people every single day are dying. And we know that over 90 percent of the American public are grieve with us that gun safety legislation, federal background checks for all themselves, closing the loopholes, red flag laws, these are bonafide, viable ways to save American lives.

And I'm tired of Republicans in the Senate just playing politics with people's lives. The gun lobby, you know, they continue to just vote against these measures. The gun lobby continues to fight against these important measures, and I believe that the blood of every American that has die in this country lies on their hands.

LEMON (on camera): Let's talk about the legislation, OK? You have cosponsored -- you're a cosponsor of the two gun reform bills that had passed in the House earlier this month. That close loopholes and background checks, President Biden is pleading with Senators to pass them. Let's listen and then we'll discuss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: These are bills that received votes of both Republicans and Democrats in the House. This is not and should not be a partisan issue. This is an American issue. It will save lives, American lives. And we have to act. We should also ban assault weapons in the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, you just said a few moments ago, a few words to your colleagues there in Washington, but what more do you say, specifically, if you will, to those Senator who refuse to consider any kind of reform?

MCBATH: Well, there again, you know, we have passed this very vital bipartisan legislation in the 116th Congress. Yet again we just passed the same legislation again in the 117th Congress. Bipartisan support. That means Republicans and Democrats. And we know over and over again we've said that we've surveyed America.

We've surveyed American citizens, and over 90 percent of them agree with us. But there again, the NRA gun lobby leadership has such a stronghold over the Republican Congress and Republican Senate, and they have to be held accountable for this. They have to be held accountable for this. People are crying out in the streets for the safety in their communities, and I'll continue to champion this legislation.

I am not going to stop. My colleagues and I are not going to give up. People in America deserve to live in their communities without the fear of being gunned down, and they're going to have to be held accountable for not taking care of their own constituents, whether they be Republican or Democrat in their own communities.

Their own constituents also are afraid to live in their own communities because there are no safe spaces, Don, anymore. It doesn't matter where you live in this country, no one is immune to gun violence.

LEMON: Congresswoman McBath, thank you. I really appreciate you joining us.

MCBATH: Thank you.

LEMON (on camera): So, from the Congress now to the Senate. I want to bring in now California Senator Alex Padilla. Senator thank you for joining. You heard what the Congresswoman said. Good evening to you. You brought up a point at the Senate judiciary hearing today on gun violence. It happens (inaudible) it had been held today, and I just want our viewers to hear it and then we'll discuss it. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): In five states, voters must be registered and have specific forms of I.D. in order to cast a ballot. But those same states allow people to buy rifles without permits and require no background checks for some sales. Additionally, in a majority of states, new voters are able to obtain a rifle quicker than they are able to cast their first ballot. It seems to me that we have our priorities entirely backward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:10:27]

LEMON (on camera): Why is it easier to buy a gun than it is to vote?

PADILLA (on camera): Well, Don, it shouldn't be, and that's my point. As I mentioned in committee earlier today, it seems like we have our priorities backwards, and -- see the impact of you know, the voter suppression efforts election after election and we see the consequences of lack of gun safety laws in mass shooting after mass shooting. A couple this week alone.

You know, our heart's broken. Thoughts and prayers are called for, but so is action, and that's what the tone was of judiciary committee today, starting with Chairman Durbin.

LEMON: In the 10:00 hour, the opening of the show I connected these two issues. I'm wondering though why it was important for you to connect these two issues of voting and gun legislation.

PADILLA: Yes, you know, for me it's because of the recurring theme that ties these two and so many others together. If you just kind of reflect on the year that we've had during the COVID-19 pandemic, it devastated all communities but disproportionately it impacted communities of color. You know, gun violence is horrible anywhere in the nation, but it has disproportionately impacted communities of color.

Voter suppression, you know, the right to vote is so fundamental in our democracy, yet we know that the laws that are current and those that are being proposed as we speak have a disproportionate effective disenfranchising communities of color. We have to call out the inequity, the bias, the discrimination every time we see it.

LEMON: Senator, I want to read something from the first lady, she made a particular point earlier tweeting in part, she says, I just keep thinking about all the leader who won't take a stand to save lives and yet line up to pass bills that make at harder for us to vote. Lawmakers making it harder for us to vote right now, really are Republicans. How do you get pass their blockade on gun legislation and voting rights? How do you do it?

PADILLA: Well, first of all, we're not going to give up, right. We're going to keep trying. When (inaudible) inside a game and the outside of the game. The outside game being anybody who cares about this has to keep the pressure on. We do so much work organizing around elections, getting people out to vote, you know, get out to the polls or vote by mail. However it is, have your voice heard in the political process.

But let's remember, our democracy doesn't come around just every November. We have to stay active in between elections and keep the pressure on. And look, if you live in a state Republican state or a deep blue state, just as we do during campaign time, your phone banks, you're calling friends or family members in other states to make sure they get out to vote. Here as well, we've got to engage our friends and families in other states in the deep red states to have them put pressure on Republican Senators to do the right thing.

And in terms of the insight perspective, you know, once again, the question is this going to be the issue that finally breaks the filibuster in the only reason we haven't been able to make progress on so many issues, including gun safety is this filibuster that requires 60 votes to get anything done. I think we can get bipartisan support if the threshold wasn't as high.

So I'm for eliminating the filibuster. And you know, to make progress in so many issues. But you know, COVID has been critical and urgent. People have literally been dying when it comes to gun safety. Once again, people are dying. It's time to act.

LEMON: Senator Padilla, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

PADILLA: Thanks for having me back on.

LEMON: So, Boulder is still in shock after the supermarket shooting that left 10 people dead. I'm going ask the city's mayor what he wants to tell President Biden and what he hopes to hear. That's next.

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[23:15:00]

LEMON (on camera): Boulder, Colorado, a city in mourning. Residents grieving for the 10 people killed, gunned down at a supermarket. Among the victims, Boulder Police Officer Eric Talley, one of the first officer to respond to the scene. Tonight before the Denver Nuggets game, Head Coach Mike Malone cried as he remembered Officer Talley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE MALONE, HEAD COACH DENVER NUGGETS: I think about Eric Talley and his seven kids. That's who I think about. I'm just heartbroken for them and for everybody else, and hopefully we as a country, we as a state, can find a way to be better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): That's real right there. Joining me now, Boulder's Mayor, Sam Weaver.

Mayor, thank you so much. I'm so sorry. And I just know that emotions are high there, that the people are grieving, and I really can't say enough about how sorry we are for the folks of Boulder and beyond. Thank you for joining.

MAYOR SAM WEAVER, BOULDER, COLORADO (on camera): We appreciate the kind words, thank you.

LEMON: There's so much pain in the wake of these tragedies. So having said what we just said, how is the community holding up, mayor?

[23:20:04]

WEAVER: Well, I would say that we are in shock and I would say that we are just coming out of the shock phase and starting to feel the grief. You know, we are hearing the stories of the people, who had been killed, the victims.

We, you know, I didn't personally know any of them but reading their bios, you know, hearing how integrated they were in to our community it's going to be a while as we process the loss that we've experienced here. You know, there's not too much to say. It is very much like a death in the family. Except it's a death in the family of our city.

LEMON: Yeah, right on. You were expecting to speak to the president, President Biden soon. What are you going to tell him? What do you hope to hear? WEAVER: If I speak to the president I will thank him. The people of

Boulder will be grateful to be recognized for the -- what we're going through. You know, I will tell the president what I told every other politician that I've spoken to, from state level all the way up through our federal delegation of Senators, which is we need help.

You know, we as a city tried to pass an assault weapons ban. We did unanimously in city council. It was recently overturned, and there's a reason cities can't do this. We have borders that are pretty narrow, and so we need the states, some of the federal government to help pitch in and protect us, protect our people.

LEMON: So, Mayor, I've got to ask you about the investigation tonight. Is there anything you could tell us about the shooter, about his motive, why he targeted the supermarket about 20 miles from his home?

WEAVER: You know, I don't have any more information than is out there publicly. And you know, I think from the picture that's starting to come together, this person might have been a person with anger problems, might have been a person who had mental health challenges.

You know, we have unfortunately been able to put together a profile, not Boulder, but we as a nation, of young men who are passing out their adolescence and entering their young adulthood and sometimes that's when mental health problems arise for the first time.

So, I don't have any answers about that. That's all speculation at this point. But it is a person who live close to Boulder. And you know, we don't know why he came to Boulder and did the terrible things that were done.

LEMON: You said a speculations, but you know, the family member who is speaking out about, the suspect's brother said that he may have been suffering from mental illness as well. He believes that he was paranoid. Yet though mayor, the suspect purchased a Ruger AR-556 pistol just six days before this shooting. What went wrong?

WEAVER: Well, I think there are two things that are wrong with this picture in our country. One is that we don't diagnose and divert people with mental health challenges very well. You know, we should be more conscious of this as a problem, and we should be providing easier routes for people to access the help they need. That's one problem.

The other of course is the background check should have caught this. There was a background check. There is to purchase weapon in Colorado. But those don't background checks don't link up with the mental health system nearly as well as they should. That's one problem.

And obviously the other problem is these weapons that were designed to kill human beings really don't have a place in our society. And you know, that's the other problem.

LEMON: Yes. Mayor, thank you. And again our condolences and we will continue to cover this story. We appreciate your time.

WEAVER: Thanks for having us on. LEMON: Thank you. President Biden urging lawmakers to take action on

gun legislation, but will anything get done with Congress so deeply divided?

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[23:25:00]

LEMON (on camera): Tonight President Biden calling on Congress to take action to save American lives in the wake of a mass shooting in Boulder, following the deadly shootings in Atlanta by only one week. The president wants Congress to ban assault weapons and close loopholes and background checks.

So let's discuss with Jim Messina, he is the former campaign manager for President Barack Obama. Jim, good evening to you. Thanks so much for joining. So, President Biden wants to act on gun legislation. He has been here before. He was tapped to tackle it under Obama after Sandy Hook. Watch this and then we'll discuss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fact that we can't prevent every act of violence doesn't mean we can't steadily reduce the violence and prevent the very worst violence. That's why I've asked the vice president to lead an effort that includes members of my cabinet and outside organizations to come up with a set of concrete proposals no later than January, proposals that I then intend to push without delay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So they couldn't even get it when 20 children and six adults were killed in Sandy Hook. So Biden knows what he's up against, yes?

JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER (on camera): He does, and as you know, he's one of the authors of the 1994 assault weapons ban that actually passed and made a real difference in this country. And then when he was tasked with this very difficult task from Barack Obama he came up upon the one immoveable force in Washington politics.

[23:30:01] Let's just be very clear what that is, and that is the National Rifle Association. This is an organization that, as you know, is being investigated all over the country, has fraud complaints, may get their tax status revoked by the state of New York, and in the middle of all this, they have an ironclad grip on the Republican Party.

In the wake of Sandy Hook, there was actually some bipartisan agreement for once. Joe Manchin and Pat Toomey in the Senate had a bill to move background checks forward and the NRA killed it, saying it would create a national gun registry, which is just absolutely a lie, Don, as you well know, but they had this no slippery slope philosophy that nothing can happen. And the NRA continues to even today stop every piece of legislation, even stuff like background checks which has over 90 percent approval in this country.

LEMON: Yeah. So, having -- the moment it came out of my mouth, I wanted to amend that question, OK, because I said that he knows what he's up against. But isn't -- don't you think the Senate is even more -- more divided since, you know, in the years that Joe Biden has been in the Senate?

Even though he -- you know, even when he was vice president, considering what happened, the division that we had with the last administration, do you think that he is fully aware of what he's up against in this moment?

MESSINA: Well, I think he's starting to figure it out.

LEMON: Yeah.

MESSINA: I think, you know, you're looking at the Republicans with absolute opposition to everything he's doing, not even sort of putting their hand across the aisle saying let's help the new president through this moment of pandemic and economic crisis. No votes on the stimulus. No votes on the coronavirus package.

So I think he's starting to get this. And I think Jen Psaki, his press secretary, said it right today. They're going to look at every single thing they do both internally and externally, including legislation, but things they can do with executive orders to see if they can move this forward because the country, Don, is decided on this.

You don't get 90 percent of the country agreeing on very many things. And they want background checks fixed. They understand there are loopholes like this one and they want it fixed. It's just not being fixed because the Republican Party is bought and paid for by the NRA.

LEMON: Yeah. So Jim, you know, I mentioned, you know, having Joe Biden being vice president under President Barack Obama. By the way, this is a statement that the former president put out on the Colorado shootings, part of it.

He says we can make it harder for those with hate in their hearts to buy weapons of war. We can overcome opposition by cowardly politicians and the pressure of a gun lobby that opposes any limit on the ability of anyone to assemble an arsenal. We can, and we must.

So, how does a country overcome that opposition? Speaking of the division that I just mentioned, how do we overcome that opposition?

MESSINA: Well, we take it to the streets and we start organizing locally like we always shave done. You know, when I read Obama's statement, Don, I looked at that -- cowardly politicians? That's pretty -- that's pretty harsh from Barack Obama. You don't usually get language out of him like that.

I think he's a former president who is sick and tired of being in exactly the same place and wants to find a way to spur this country, to actually demand from their citizens, from their elected representatives some change here. We just cannot take no for an answer.

And you know, I have had friends on Twitter and other things saying, oh, it is the same thing, nothing is going to get done. Why? Why do we accept that? Why is it OK this time? Why don't once we just put or hand on the ground and say, no, this time is enough, we're going to get something done. Even if it's just modicum here, Don, like, we should stop being so cynical and figure out a way to get this done.

LEMON: Can you imagine if the former president has said cowardly in his time in office? Republicans -- he's calling us cowards! How dare he call us names" Considering all the names that the former President Trump called people. I just -- you know. Anyways, you know what I'm saying.

(LAUGHTER)

MESSINA: Exactly.

LEMON: It's not -- it's not just from Republicans, though, all right? Because you have Joe Manchin to contend with, Democrats who -- Joe Manchin opposes the House-passed gun reforms and background checks. So, what is the approach here? Find out what Manchin would vote for and then shoot for that for starters like -- what do they do?

MESSINA: Well, first of all, the House did the right thing in passing two bills that move this debate forward. I think we look and see what we can get through the Senate. We take the Manchin-Toomey bill from a few years ago and see if we can move that. We sit down and, you know -- this is why the president is the best I've seen at.

You know, we were negotiating Obamacare. We sent Joe Biden to the hill because he was the one who could have the private conversations with members of both parties to figure out whether there's some space to get something done. You know, this is -- this is his superpower.

[23:35:00]

MESSINA: And so I think, you know, he's going to have a bunch of quiet conversations. He's going to see if he can take the temperature down and see if there's anything we can do here. And meanwhile, the country has got to put the temperature up on some of these elected officials and say, hey, we ought to be able to get some things done here, this is craziness, people are dying, let's act.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. Jim Messina, thank you, sir. Appreciate your time.

MESSINA: My pleasure, Don. Thanks.

LEMON: Pro-Trump lawyer Sidney Powell spent weeks, weeks, just over and over, spreading the big lie. Now that she's facing legal pressure, she's trying to completely rewrite history.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, in the face of a $1.3 billion lawsuit, the former Trump attorney, Sidney Powell, is backing down from bogus claims that she made about massive fraud in the 2020 election. In a court filing, her attorneys say that she was expressing her opinion and that no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact. The problem is millions of people did with some of them even storming the Capitol in an attempt to overthrow our government.

So joining me now is the former White House communications director, Anthony Scaramucci. Anthony, good evening to you. Appreciate you joining us. We all saw what happened on January 6th.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL FOUNDER AND PARTNER: Thank you.

LEMON: So no matter what Sidney Powell's attorneys say, it is clear that Trump supporters took her seriously, the big lie was spun up, and there were consequences. Do you really think that they can just quietly walk it back now?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, listen. They're laying the case on New York Times versus Sullivan, which is obviously the most famous defamation case, and they're going to say that she wasn't recklessly indifferent with her statements. But then the prosecution is going to have the plaintiff's lawyers. They are going to have a tremendous amount of information showing her as recklessly indifferent, Don.

So, remember, it's a very high standard in a public case. And the other issue for the voting machine companies -- were they harmed? And you just have to look through the 50 states and the local governments. Did anybody fire them as a result of Sidney Powell?

So, I don't know if you remember the U.S. settled that very famous case. U.S. settled one antitrust case against the NFL but they got paid out a dollar. So I don't know if the voting machine companies are going the make that much money off of Sidney Powell where she has $1.3 billion.

But she is up against it here. She's completely painted in the corner. And my guess is that they'll meet the standard on the plaintiff's side. She'll lose the case. I just don't think there's a lot of money in it for them.

But here's the thing. There's 55 million to 60 million -- quote, unquote -- "unreasonable people," Don, that bought into what she was saying and other people in the Trump system or Trump ecosystem, including the president himself --

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

SCARAMUCCI: -- and so that has to worry you a lot. It worries me. LEMON (on camera): I mean, when you think about it, are those people listening to her? Because what she was saying is basically, I was lying, none of it is true and, you know. Stating that in a lawsuit is fact that she was not telling the truth. Listen, she was one of the chief architects of the big lie. Her claims are parroted by the former president himself, pushed out by Fox's propaganda programs. Look at this, Anthony.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNEY POWELL, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: We've got evidence of corruption all across the country in countless districts. The machine ran an algorithm that shaved votes from Trump and awarded them to Biden.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have a company that's very suspect. Its name is Dominion. With the turn of a dial or the change of a chip, you can press a button for Trump and the vote goes to Biden. What kind of a system is this?

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: The president's lawyers alleging a company called Dominion, which they say started in Venezuela with Cuban money and with the assistance of Smartmatic software, a backdoor is capable of flipping votes.

POWELL: We're talking about the alteration and changes in millions of votes, some being dumped that were for President Trump, some being flipped that were for President Trump.

TRUMP: Dominion insists they were able to switch votes with the mere push of a button.

UNKNOWN: Look, I want to show this graphic of the swing states using the Dominion and the software, the Smartmatic software. The voting machines were used. Dominion voting machines were used in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Oh, my --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Anthony, an entire --

SCARAMUCCI: It's a smoking gun, you know?

LEMON: An entire insurrection of people to believe that this -- and they believe in it still. And now that they might have some personal consequences, she says that no one should believe it? Help me understand this logic, please.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, that's the -- if you go through the case, New York Times versus Sullivan, she is trying to find a defense, no harm done to the public company, considered to be a public figure, and she didn't act recklessly or indifferently. And you just showed, you know, 90 seconds of stuff that's going to be showed in the courtroom, which is a literal smoking gun.

[23:45:05]

SCARAMUCCI: But I would love to see President Trump, who you used to interview when he was a candidate. I remember back in the day, I would love to see him come on the show and you ask him the question, we just heard from Sidney Powell, so where is the fraud and why is the big lie persisting?

And his honest answer would be, Don, because I'm making a tremendous amount of money off of this big lie. You have no idea how many rubes are out there that I can con and take millions, hundreds of millions of dollars from. Those are the answers.

I would love to see how it gets resolved in court. But I don't think those voting system companies were materially harmed by the nonsense from these people.

LEMON: They are saying, though, that they have --

SCARAMUCCI: I don't think they lost much work.

LEMON: Yeah. They're saying that they have records or at least something that indicates that they were materially harmed. But we will see how much that -- how much that actually is.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I hope so. Listen. I hope they get a $2 billion judgment because it will put a lot of pain in these people that are pursuing this level of propaganda. I hope that happens. But these cases are very tough to win.

LEMON: Anthony Scaramucci, thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

SCARAMUCCI: Good to be here. Thank you.

LEMON: Good to see you.

So the argument for reparations for Black Americans is gaining a lot of momentum, and some towns aren't waiting for the federal government to do something about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: People across the country are calling for justice in the wake of police killings of unarmed Black Americans this past year. It has prompted a new reckoning with race and social justice. And while the country grapples with all of this, reparations are becoming part of the dialogue and gaining momentum. Here is CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A historic breakthrough for the Black residents of Evanston, Illinois.

UNKNOWN: The city council approved adoption.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): A vote to provide up to $25,000 in reparations for housing costs.

UNKNOWN: I think this step is going to pull all of America forward.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Cities like Evanston are not waiting for the federal government to lead on reparations despite the fierce debate.

DANNY GLOVER, ACTOR: I sit here as a great grandson of a former slave.

HERSCHEL WALKER, FORMER NFL PLAYER: How can we pay for your great, great, great grandfather being burned to death?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): No one currently alive was responsible for that.

NIKOLE HANNAH-JONES, CREATOR OF THE 1619 PROJECT: There is no other way to close the racial wealth gap except by transferring wealth.

SHELBY STEELE, SENIOR FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION: Keep your reparations. I do not want the dependency.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Across the country in the throes of Black Lives Matter protests. Last summer, Asheville, North Carolina city council took the lead by voting for $1 million in community reparations.

Earlier this month, Georgetown University pledged an initial $100 million to educate the descendants of those sold by the college in 1838. That same week, a major U.S. bank announced its support for congressional action. But even the suggestion of reparations is frowned upon by many Republicans.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): As reparations, what does that got to do with COVID?

MALVEAUX (voice-over): As Senator Lindsey Graham recently criticized aid for Black farmers in the COVID relief package. Nikole Hannah- Jones, author of "The 1619 Project," argues why reparations are necessary.

HANNAH-JONES: For 250 years, Black Americans were legally unable to gain any wealth. That was followed by a 100-year period where Black Americans were legally discriminated against in every aspect of American life.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Black people freed after the Civil War were initially offered 40 acres and a mule for compensation under President Abraham Lincoln. But it was soon scrapped. Today's scholars estimate that would be equal to between $12 and $35 trillion in value, but disagree over the individual amount.

HANNAH-JONES: About $70,000 which is the average gap in wealth between white Americans and Black Americans. STEELE: I'm supposed to put my hand out and what's my price?

MALVEAUX (voice-over): For Professor Shelby Steele, whose grandfather was enslaved --

STEELE: My biggest problem with -- with reparations is that it undermines the dignity of those people like my grandfather and father.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): -- complicating the matter is who would qualify.

WALKER: Do you go to 23 and me or DNA tests to determine the percentage of blackness?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): This was our life, the back of a beaten slave.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee reintroduced H.R.40 in January, a bill rejected for more than 30 years, which calls for a commission to study reparations on the federal level.

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): It is a reckoning that it is time and that it is not legislation filed in anger.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): But for Republican Senator Mitch McConnell, the debt to Blacks has long been paid.

MCCONNELL: We've tried to deal with our original sin of slavery by fighting a civil war, by passing landmark civil rights legislation. We've elected an African-American president.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): For many years, reparation was a political non- starter.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The best reparations we can provide are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed.

[23:55:00]

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Former President Obama on reparations today.

OBAMA (voice-over): Even though I was convinced that reparations was a non-starter during my presidency, I understand the argument that we should talk about it anyway, if for no other reason than to educate the country.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Now, some Democratic lawmakers see new hope for reparations under the Biden/Harris administration.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He supports the study of reparations and what the impact would be.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Reparations, historically a fringe issue, now part of our national conversation as we struggle to address equity and race.

Suzanne Malveaux, CNN.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON (on camera): Very important story. Suzanne, thank you so much for that. And thank you, everyone, for watching. Our coverage continues.

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