Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

Hard For Witnesses To Re-live What They Saw; What The Derek Chauvin Trial Means To America; Biden's $2 Trillion Infrastructure Plan Covers A Massive Area; Congressman Matt Gaetz Denies He Had Relationship With Underage Girl, Claims Extortion. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired March 31, 2021 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): I want to thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" with the big star D. Lemon starts right now.

There's an amazing opportunity for the majority today in watching the trial of George Floyd's murder. And very often white people come to a conclusion that you know what I don't really understand this, I don't live it, I don't feel it, but often it ends there because it's hard to get that different perspective.

It is an abundance right now in what we're seeing. I think it's really instructive for me and for a lot of white people, people in the majority to see how many people of color who were standing by watching this happen and having an emotional connection to the distress and the pain that resolved itself in guilt in them.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You know why -- you know why that is. It's because -- I'll tell you a story. You remember Alton Sterling, this was in Baton Rouge 2016, July 2016, got into a scuffle with police, ended up dying. And everyone was like, you know, he had a gun, it was this, it was that, OK?

And so, my, you know my family is from there. So, my nieces call me, and they said, that was Mr. Alton. He is always standing out in front of the video -- in front of the convenience store and he sells the CDs. We know him, we see him.

So, to them because it was near where they grew up, he was a human being. He was not threatening. Uncle Don, sometimes we would see him and we wouldn't want to buy CDs from him because, you know, we have our own music and whatever but we would just say, Mr. Sterling, here's some money, whatever, not threatening to them.

Human being, they saw his humanity, as a person who was their neighbor. Right? Oftentimes when you don't have a relationship with people like that, you don't know them, you don't see their humanity. So, to you it's other.

And listen, you know where we live. There are people who have issues, people we see all the time. People who go that's Mr. Williams, he's kind of, you know, whatever, but we see them as humans. They see people, people who see their own or their neighbors as human. And it's about time especially as you said for white people to see Black people as human even if you can't -- why can't you relate to them? Because oftentimes you don't interact with them.

So, you may see George Floyd as this character who you see as criminal, but to the people who live in that neighborhood he's one of them. He's one of their neighbors. They know his story. And he may have -- he may not be the perfect human being. Who is? I'm not perfect. Are you, Chris?

CUOMO: I couldn't be any further from it.

LEMON: OK, so then George Floyd isn't perfect either. And I know a lot of people who came back from various wars, right, served their country, became addicted if you look at what happened during the Gulf Wars, if you look at what happened during Vietnam. A lot of people came back with issues and then became addicted.

And what we learned is that we should see their humanity. When they come back here, we should treat them with respect. Why can't we treat people who have issues and failings and addictions with respect instead of looking at them as criminal?

If someone passes -- how much is a life worth? If someone -- let's say George Floyd passed a $20 bill, fraudulent $20 bill, is that worth his life? Is that worth coming up, charging up to him with a gun, get out of the car for a $20 bill? Is it worth it?

So, we have to start seeing people as humanity and stop trying to find evidence of other -- otherism every time. Well, what was wrong with him, what did he do, why didn't he pay attention to the police, what does he -- instead of saying, you know, that guy was a human being. Even if he was passing a $20 bill is that -- is that a death sentence?

And think about the people in your own life who have failings, who have flaws, who are addicted -- every addiction. Every single addiction if you go to therapy, if you go to any sort of addiction therapy or anything, they will tell you every single addiction is the same whether it's drugs, legal or illegal, alcohol, food, sex, all addiction is the same.

There is something underlying either something in the brain or some sort of failing or something that happened in your life that triggered it. And so, we have to stop stigmatizing people and not seeing them as human because they have failings. We all have failings.

George Floyd had failings -- had failings. But please, people, look at him as a human being and not some other thing that you don't know anything about, you don't know his story.

[22:05:05]

He's not one of your neighbors. Think about one of your neighbors who has problems. Would you want them to be treated the way George Floyd was treated, or a family member? I don't think so. And that's what I'm going to talk about in my opening. Go on. Sorry to pontificate.

CUOMO: No. I would have cut you if I didn't feel it was valuable. I just, I think you're putting more faith in people's ability to do this than I have right now. See the humanity in George Floyd, well that requires humanity in the seer. What do you want to see? What do you want to be about?

LEMON: Exactly.

CUOMO: You know, we often say the minority can't change racism or systemic injustice, the majority has to. But does it want to? Isn't there a convenience, isn't there a comfort in being able to excuse anything that an officer does by saying, you're anti-police, you choose to see that. And you don't choose to see what is in such abundance in this trial right now, which is just a pain of people who feel that there before the grace.

And my question is I really hope that people are watching what's happening right now not through the lens of politics but through the lens of people. And do you see that pain, don't you want to stop that pain, don't you want less of that pain.

I'll listen to what you have to say. As always, D. Lemon, I love you.

LEMON (on camera): I love you too. Thank you, sir. Let's appreciate it. So, let's talk more about this. Chris, I'll see you.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

And so, having said all of that, this is what I talk about all the time. This is what I've been about forever. Maybe you just didn't realize it. I don't know. Hopefully you do now.

But when we look at this, what's happening in Minnesota now, America is on trial. America is on trial. I mean it, and I want you to hear me out here. This is not just about what black people think about what happened to George Floyd.

This is about America. This is about you listening to that gut- wrenching testimony from people in the neighborhood, people who don't see George Floyd as some other thing. It's about those people telling their story -- their stories, his story.

This is about a human being, about a real human being with all -- with all his flaws. And what happened to him when police refused to see him as human. If you're telling yourself, you know, I don't know anyone like George Floyd, just think for a minute. Why don't you?

So, if you don't, a good question is why don't you, right? Another question is -- another thing that you can do is think about someone you may know who has had a hard time in life, someone who's been knocked around, right? Someone who's messed up. Does that make them any less human? It doesn't make them any less of a human being, does it?

If someone has an addiction problem or addiction problems, that doesn't make him or her less of a human being. And that is why this trial is so important. Why I say America is on trial here. This is a kind of conversation that we need to have, black people, white people, all of us sitting down and talking about race and what's really going on in America.

Like Marvin Gaye asked what's going on, what's going on? What's going on? We're going to dig deep into some of those conversations over the next two hours so I hope you stay tuned because they're going to be important and probing and real. And we're going to keep doing it whether you're comfortable with it or not because you need to get past that discomfort zone.

We also need to look at that video, right? No matter how hard it is to watch, and it is hard to watch. I know that. I wish I could just hit pause on that video and stop what happened to George Floyd. Just pause it and say, OK, that's enough, stop. But we can't. We cannot just turn away from it. We need to hear what those witnesses said about what they saw that day.

You can look at that. Does that seem humane to you? Does that seem humane? Does it seem like he saw that man's humanity? Because when you really listen, when you really allow yourself to really hear, it's devastating. It's gut wrenching.

One witness after another, people who live and work in one middle American neighborhood never thought that they'd see what they saw when George Floyd died in the street with a police officer's knee on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds.

People who heard him begging, I can't breathe, calling out for his mama. Who are -- people who are still haunted by that, still feeling guilty that they couldn't stop what was happening before their eyes.

[22:10:02]

But the most devastating, the most powerful testimony coming from Charles McMillian who was driving by Cup Foods that day, and he noticed police next to George Floyd's car. And he stopped because as he said he was being nosy.

That's what neighbors do, right? That's what regular folks do. He's a regular guy being a little bit nosy. We all know someone like that, and sometimes we are very grateful and thankful for them because they sometimes save our houses from being burglarized or they look out for people who shouldn't be where they are at our homes, or what are you doing there, is that your package, why are you taking it? That kind of person.

So, he was standing on the street while all of that went down. He called to George Floyd telling him you can't win, trying in his words to make the situation easier. And he was devastated watching it all over again. And I just want you to see his reaction, the whole thing, his emotion at watching what another human being was going through. And imagine how you would feel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE FLOYD, POLICE BRUTALITY VICTIM: Mama. Mama. My God. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. I can't breathe, man. Mama --

UNKNOWN: Mr. McMillan, you need a minute?

CHARLES MCMILLAN, WITNESS: My God.

UNKNOWN: Please take your time.

UNKNOWN: Just give him a moment. Mr. McMillan, I'm not sure if there's water as well. If you need a break to get some water let me know and we can take a break. My I approach, your honor?

UNKNOWN: You may.

UNKNOWN: Thank you

MCMILLAN: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: All right. You OK?

MCMILLAN: Yes.

UNKNOWN: I know this is difficult. Can you just explain sort of what you're feeling in this moment?

MCMILLAN: I can't -- I feel helpless. I don't have -- my mom died June 25th.

UNKNOWN: Hang on just one second.

UNKNOWN: Let's -- let's take a 10-minute break.

UNKNOWN: Let's take a little break.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): That's real life. How can anybody watch that and not feel for this man? Hearing George Floyd calling for his mother, feeling his grief over his own mother. Compare that emotion to the reaction from Derek Chauvin after George Floyd had been taken away in an ambulance.

Charles McMillian approached the police officer, the police car and what happened was caught on Chauvin's body cam in never before seen video. Watch closely.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Can you advise the fire department if they're still with you they need to go to --

(CROSSTALK)

UNKNOWN: That's one person's opinion. No, no. I can't. We got to control this guy because he's a sizable guy. UNKNOWN: Yes.

UNKNOWN: It looks like -- it looks like he was probably on something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): No apparent emotion, sounds cool and calm. A lot like how he looked while he had his knee on George Floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds. Didn't seem shaken, maybe I took a life, maybe what I did was -- nothing. That's one person's opinion. He looked like a big guy who was on something.

[22:15:00]

Just didn't seem to feel anything while the people watching were getting more and more frantic. They're even feeling the stress in the courtroom. The trial briefly coming to a stop this morning after a juror felt ill and quickly left the room. After a break she explained that she has a stress related reaction and has been having trouble sleeping.

But imagine what it's like for George Floyd's family, watching a man that they loved in the last moments of his life. Imagine how you would feel if this were your father, your brother terrified, police aiming their guns at him all because of an apparent -- that's the accusation, counterfeit $20 bill. This is hard to watch, too. There's a lot of cursing but this is what really happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Keep your (muted) hands on the wheel.

UNKNOWN: Jesus Christ.

UNKNOWN: Keep your (muted) hands on the wheel.

UNKNOWN: Yes, sir. I'm sorry, sir.

UNKNOWN: Who else is in the car? Put your foot back in.

UNKNOWN: I'm so sorry. God dang, man. I got shot the same way with officers before.

UNKNOWN: OK. Well, what I say let me see your hands and put your (muted) hands on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, from a $20 counterfeit -- allegedly counterfeit $20 to that. Isn't a person's life worth more than a $20 bill, real or not? We also saw surveillance video inside Cup Foods, George Floyd in what he couldn't possibly have known would be some of the last moments of his life.

The teenage cashier who first confronted him about the fake $20 who said that he was friendly but seemed like he might be under the influence, that cashier saying he felt disbelief and guilt over what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We saw you standing there with your hands on your head for a while, correct?

CHRISTOPHER MARTIN, CUP FOODS EMPLOYEE: Correct.

UNKNOWN: What was going through your mind during that time period?

MARTIN: Disbelief and guilt.

UNKNOWN: Why guilt?

MARTIN: If I would have just not taken the bill, this could have been avoided.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, you have heard one witness after another say they feel guilty for what happened to George Floyd. You've heard witnesses break down on the stand. You've heard George Floyd himself a real human being begging for his life in his last moments.

This is not just about Black people. This is about America, all of us. America is on trial. And it's time for us to have that deep conversation about all of this, about seeing the humanity in each other, the humanity that police did not see in George Floyd and about what this trial means to America. It's time for that conversation and we're going to have it next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DERRICK JOHNSON, PRESIDENT & CEO, NAACP: What's on trial is our criminal justice system. What's on trial is a right for a Black man to breathe in America. What's on trial is the right for a Black man to go through a process where there's due process where law enforcement officers are not on a scene and try, convict and punish to death based on some level of assumptions. That's what's on trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): You heard me say America is on trial in Minneapolis, in the Minneapolis courtroom where the ex-police officer Derek Chauvin is being tried for murder in the death of George Floyd, the emotional testimony, the graphic police bodycam videos of Floyd's arrest.

Watching those videos do you see any human consideration by Chauvin or any of the other officers, or do they treat him as less than human?

So, I want to bring in new CNN political commentator Mitch Landrieu, the former mayor of New Orleans. Hello, sir. Thank you for doing this.

Listen, I know you had other plans tonight and I called you up and I said you are the person I need to talk to about this. You changed your plans, you rearranged them and I appreciate it. So, let's get into this.

MITCH LANDRIEU, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to see you. Thank you.

LEMON: Today we saw that video, video after video, close up showing George Floyd begging for his life, treated with a total lack of humanity. How do we talk about this? You say that the most important thing right now is for white people not to look away. Why do you say that?

LANDRIEU: Well, I say it a lot don't look away from this. We have people that continue to want to tell stories that are not representative of what our eyes are seeing and our ears are hearing. You and I talked about this with Senator Ron Johnson's comments the other night about the fact that the people that stormed the capitol were patriots and not insurrectionists when we saw something the exact opposite.

He said that he would be afraid of Black people who stormed the capitol but not white. He was being honest because he thought white was good and Black was dangerous. That feeds into the same thing that happened with Mr. Floyd, the pain that it causes to watch all of those videos today.

When the police officers just opened that door and pointed a gun in his face, I felt that. I've had a gun pointed at my face. You never forget that. That alone is such a traumatic incident that it completely changes a human being. And then of course you saw Derek Chauvin with his knee pressed hard for nine minutes plus on Mr. Floyd's neck with his hands in his pocket with a smug look on his face.

That is not just emblematic of what he did in that, it is emblematic of a much larger problem that we have had in this country with the excessive use of police force that reverberates across the country.

So while this is about Mr. George Floyd's murder in my heart and prayers go out to his family you see the incredible trauma that everybody else that's been involved in this has faced from Mr. McMillan to the young 9-year-old, to the 14-year-old, to the clerk behind the counter who called the police about the $20 bill who is sitting there helpless when the police are not doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Not Derek Chauvin nor the other police officers that allowed him to do that. There is training that can fix that problem. And from my perspective what it all boils down to and you hit it on the head is not seeing the humanity in George Floyd.

But when Mr. Floyd called out for his mama, everybody in America should wake up to understanding that he was somebody's son. Everybody can identify with that. And we begin to see each other's humanity, then you begin to treat other differently.

[22:25:05]

I heard you talk about Alton Sterling. I'm right -- I'm from down the street, unbelievably traumatic incident for the people of Louisiana. When you think about Ahmaud Arbery and Breonna Taylor --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Same thing.

LANDRIEU: -- all of this fall into it. It's all of the same thing. And it's too much.

LEMON: But Mitch, let me tell you, Mitch, because it was that -- that was a real epiphany for me when -- because you know I sit here a lot and talk about these stories and it's painful. But when my nieces called me and said --

LANDRIEU: Right.

LEMON: -- that's Mr. Alton, he's the guy at the store. He was one of their neighbors. He wasn't a threat to them.

LANDRIEU: But think about the narrative though, Don, when Alton Sterling was, his life was taken it was police officers in a hostile situation take the life of a Black man. But your nieces said to you that was Mr. Alton.

I mean right away the narrative was he was my neighbor. He was my friend. He was not just a Black guy, which according to Senator Ron Johnson, is dangerous and to be feared. You heard Derek Chauvin tell that other guy well, that's one man's opinion but he was a big Black guy who might have been dangerous --

LEMON: Who might have been dangerous.

LANDRIEU: -- because Black and big is dangerous.

LEMON: Right.

LANDRIEU: And that is what's in the minds of white Americans. So, I say to my white Americans, friends do not look away from this. You have to -- you have to look at what this trial is telling us about us. It is clearly the murder trial of George Floyd and with Derek Chauvin being the perpetrator, obviously, it is about police misconduct but it is also about how we see the world.

And African -- my African-American friends are so tired and so exhausted of white people looking away, rationalizing, not looking at what's happening and then saying this is not our problem, this is white America's problem. And they're right. And here's the reason why.

The president is white, the Senate is white, Congress is white, the governorships are white. The state legislators are white. Most of the police chiefs are white. We have to change it because we have the power to change it. And if we don't change it --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But doesn't that frighten -- doesn't that frighten a lot of people because you see what happened with the capitol insurrection. The fact that you are saying we got to change it because everybody is white. That scares a lot of people and leads --

LANDRIEU: No.

LEMON: -- to the big lie and what we have now. Look, why is it that when, you know, and I hear it all the time why are you always talking about white people, white people on the TV? I don't mean all white people.

When you say you don't mean all white people, I'm talking about the ones who are excusing and making excuses for what they see, who try to rationalize something that's irrational. That's not -- we're not talking about all white people. But go on, Mitch.

LANDRIEU: Well, give me you -- let me --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Why does that -- why does that make white people so uncomfortable, that's what I'm asking you.

LANDRIEU: That's clearly true. And the fact that it makes us so uncomfortable should indicate to us that we have more work to do. Let me give you another example to put this into context.

This week the governor of Georgia signed a bill into law relating to voting suppression in Georgia. But what he did and a picture that was taken was a bunch of white guys. Not a diverse group of people, not men and women. A bunch of white guys standing in a room that was locked and they were standing in front of a painting of a plantation.

Now, if white people who are reasonable and thoughtful can't look at that and say that is very provocative picture, that tells the story of the history of the south, then white people are deliberately looking away.

Also, simultaneously there with an African-American who is an elected official was gently knocking on the door, she was immediately arrested and taken away. Now juxtapose that to what Senator Johnson told us about the capitol where we have individuals who were mostly white storming the capitol, trying to destroying our democracy and what? I mean, and what?

So, I'm telling the American people you can't -- you can't take these things in isolation. And that is why the George Floyd -- the trial that is going on right now with Derek Chauvin for the death of George Floyd --

LEMON: Right. LANDRIEU: -- tells us not just about his murder and his humanity but it puts a mirror on who we are as a people. And we have to ask ourselves, is this the America that we want? Is this just an exception to the rule? Clearly, it's not. The facts are there for us to see. That's why I say don't look away.

This is very important moment for us in this country, and it is really critically important that white people show up, understand this, get their heads around this, look at it and then commit to ourselves as a country that this is a country for all of us, not some of us. It really is about democracy. It really is about America. It is about out of many we are one. It is about we come to the table of democracy as equals.

And the only way that you can do that is see another person as a fellow human being. That's the essence of it. And if you don't see them as a fellow human being, it takes you down very dark tracks that we never want to go back to again, which demonstrated has actually occurred before in our country and could again if we let it get away from us.

LEMON: I love talking to you. More of this. I wish we could do the entire hour on this. And listen, you know, as you know, that's what I'm trying to fix. And I don't think that's -- these are the conversations I'm trying to have, Mitch. Thank you so much.

LANDRIEU: Thank you, Don.

[22:30:01]

LEMON: And these are the conversations I'm having in the book and it teaches you how to do that. And you know, I'm not here just to -- I don't have to sell a lot of books, but I think this will help. My book, look at it. "This is The Fire: What I Say to My Friends About Racism." People like Mitch Landrieu and others. Mitch, thank you.

LANDRIEU: Thank you, Don. Good being with you.

LEMON: You as well. We've got more news. We've got to talk infrastructure when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): President Biden unveiling a massive historic $2 trillion infrastructure package that goes way beyond improving roads and bridges. He says it's a once in a generation investment that will help the middle class, fight climate change and benefit communities of color.

In addition to upgrading transportation infrastructure the package would inject billions into manufacturing, home care services and workers housing and schools, water and digital infrastructures.

So, let's discuss now. Cedric Richmond is here. He is a senior advisor to President Biden. Thank you, sir. Good to see you. I appreciate you coming on. This package would reshape the economy.

CEDRIC RICHMOND, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: Thanks for having me.

[22:34:57]

LEMON: Yes. And includes new highways and bridges but also climate change proposals, electric cars, charging stations, replacing lead pipes, expanding the internet. Why -- why go so big especially given the deficit that we already have?

RICHMOND: Well, Don, it would do a bunch of things. First of all, it would invest in America which we have not done in a long time. And when I say invest in America it's not just the roads, the bridges and the ports all of those things. It's investing in American people.

It's making sure that we improve our competitiveness. It's making sure that American people get to be the co-architects of their futures, make sure that we can reach all the possibilities and opportunities that we want. And President Biden has been very consistent on that from the time that he was a candidate to now. And we believe that if we bet on the American people we're going to win.

But more importantly, we know that if we invest in infrastructure, research and development and communities of color that have been the victims of environmental injustice that it's going to improve the economy, businesses are going to prosper, American people are going to prosper.

And so that's why we introduced this ambitious plan. The president has not been shy about anything that he has done so far. The American rescue plan and the American jobs plan is really focused on American families and how do we help people. And so, we're proud of it and we're going to fight for it.

LEMON: How long before -- you talked about who this is going to help -- how long before -- will it take before people really start to see the benefits of this plan if it is passed?

RICHMOND: Well, I think if it's passed people will see the benefits immediately. First of all, we're going to go remove all lead pipes that deliver water to people's households or schools or day care centers across the country. We're going to make sure that we increase broadband all over the country.

And look, I don't want to be pigeonholed into this box where every time you see the Black man he's talking about Black issues. Truth is tonight I'm talking about broadband that's going to hit rural areas where there's Black and white people not connected to the internet, telemedicine.

And this president has been very clear about making sure that he improves the status of life for everybody. And so, this infrastructure plan uplifts all of America's people. And we haven't even started to talk about the care economy where so many people are working and working hard to care for Americans that need it. And so, what I do like about this administration and why I'm so proud

to be a part of it is, that it's purpose driven. It's not just about partisan politics or profits, it's really about purpose and making sure we serve the greater good. So, I think that this bill serves the greater good of the country.

LEMON: Listen, I'm not going to -- because I want to continue the conversation with you but I'm not going to play the sound bite from Mitch McConnell. Just paraphrase here because you're going to need support, Republican support I would imagine that's going to be tough to get from people like Mitch McConnell.

But he's saying this is Trojan horse that is more borrowed money and massive tax increases on the productive parts of our economy. Listen, that doesn't sound like someone who is open to negotiation. And is it realistic that he is going to -- that you -- that the president is going to get any Republicans onboard with this?

RICHMOND: Well, I think we can. And the only thing I would say is it's a bad thing to bet against Biden. I mean, when we announce, we announce too late. We had a bad message, we couldn't win. We won. We couldn't pass the American rescue plan. We did that.

And I just think if we stay focused on the American people and the issues that families are talking about around the dinner table like how to pay the bills, keep a roof over your head, food on the table and clothes on your back and how to provide health care for your family, I think that we're going to continue to win, and that's what we're focused on.

And the one thing I would just say is that we hope Senator McConnell comes along because 80 percent of Republicans in this country want to see us fix the infrastructure in the country.

So, this again is bipartisan like our last bill. But we're not going to get caught up in the politics of it. We're just going to keep trying to deliver the things that we said we would deliver on.

LEMON: Guy from Louisiana delivering the news, first guest Louisiana native, second guest Louisiana native. All of us Louisiana natives. Hey, that's how we roll here. Thank you. It's good to see you, Cedric Richmond. Thank you so much.

RICHMOND: Thanks for having me.

LEMON: Yes. So Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz denying he had a relationship with an underage girl, he is claiming extortion. And now the story is really getting complicated. Stay with us.

[22:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So tonight, a source confirming to CNN that Congressman Matt Gaetz is being investigated over allegations involving sex trafficking and prostitution including involving a minor. Federal investigators examining whether Gaetz had a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old girl first reported in the New York Times. Gaetz denying the allegations and claiming they were part of an extortion plot against him.

Let's discuss now. CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is here and CNN's senior political analyst Kirsten Powers, as well. Good evening to both of you.

So, Evan, we first reported the story last night. It is keeps -- you know, new details, it keeps changing.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's wild, right?

LEMON: Yes. We're learning a lot more about these claims of extortion from Gaetz tonight. So, give us the latest, what's going on.

PEREZ: Well, Don, I mean, this is part of the story that Matt Gaetz wants us to focus on and I'll give you the long and short of it. There are a couple of men who approached Gaetz in the last few weeks and they said they had a proposal, which was that they could try to help get rid of his legal and political problems if he would help fund this effort for them to -- to rescue Bob Levinson.

[22:45:01]

Bob Levinson is a former FBI agent who disappeared in Iran more than a decade ago. His family says that they've been told that he's no longer alive. So, these two men apparently said that Gaetz could essentially get rid of his problem with this investigation that you just outlined at the top there.

There is -- that's in The Washington Post describes some of this. The Washington Examiner had some of the documents that they say described this proposal, which was called "project homecoming."

And again, these text messages allegedly say that they would help Matt Gaetz get rid of his legal and political problems. The long and short of it, though, is that this a separate investigation. This is something being investigated by prosecutors in Florida as separate from this investigation that is being done by public corruption prosecutors here in Washington, and they're looking at these very serious allegations that Matt Gaetz was involved with prostitution and sex trafficking including of a minor, including this relationship with a 17-year-old.

This woman -- she's now a woman but at the time of this relationship she was 17. And again, that is a separate investigation. And we should not confuse those two things. Even though he --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: Even he is trying to do that.

LEMON: OK. OK. All right. Got it. And again, he's denying all of it but conflating two different investigations according to the reporting. All right. So, Kirsten, Gaetz he's had a meteoric rise in the GOP over

the last several years, close Trump ally, and that's really how he's done it, right. It's like he's like a Trumper through and through. Where does all that stand now?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, I think people are digesting this kind of crazy story, which, you know, was so skillfully just laid out for us. I have to say I had to read like multiple articles three or four times to even try to make sense of what he's alleging. Because he has conflated so many things just straight out of the Trump play book, right, where you get accused of something and you just start throwing all sort of different things that aren't related at the wall and seeing what will stick.

So, I think, you know, Kevin McCarthy who, you know, has said that basically they're going to wait and see if these allegations are true, that they take them very seriously. And so, you know, I think the Republicans are going to wait until, you know, they find out whether or not he's actually guilty of this before anything happens. But if he is found guilty, he at a minimum will be removed from committees based on what Kevin McCarthy has said.

LEMON: OK, so we have to wait for this to play out to figure out what happens, but is there a career change in store for Matt Gaetz? Because now he is saying at least the reporting is that maybe he's going to take a job at a news organization and forego his role as a congressman. We'll talk about that right after the break.

[22:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So, Evan and Kirsten are back with me. Evan, let me get this first question in to you. The investigation into Gaetz began in 2020 when Bill Barr was still in charge of the Justice Department. He was reportedly briefed on the matter. That was Donald Trump's DOJ. This is not the small matter that Gaetz wants us to think it is.

PEREZ: Right. No. This is a -- this is a serious matter. And as you pointed out, it was begun in the last months of the Trump administration and it spun out of -- it spun out of a case out of Florida with another Florida politician, Joel Greenberg, who is headed for trial in June.

And so, we don't know, Don, how much more there is here. But one of the things that guy is charged with is sex trafficking and that appears some that some of those allegations are intertwined with those against matt Gaetz.

LEMON: So, Kirsten, let's talk about what I said before the break, OK? So, just hours before the news broke about the investigation into Gaetz, Axios reported that Gaetz was considering leaving Congress for a job at Fox News's conservative rival, News Max. So what?

POWERS: Well, why would he do that? You know, he is this rising star in Congress. He is closely aligned with Donald Trump getting all of this attention and rising through the ranks. Why would he suddenly leave?

It suggests that, you know, it suggests that he thinks he is going to probably end up getting reprimanded or getting possibly, you know, getting some sort of censure or worse from the Republican Party, don't you think? I mean, I don't know why else --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Well, there was a time, Kirsten --

POWERS: -- would he decide to do this when you're a trajectory that he was on.

LEMON: Well, there was a time, Kirsten, when I would have thought like, well, certainly, you know, considering the fire brand that he is or what, at least what the accusations are again, innocent until proven guilty, but that they may preclude him from that. But now in this environment, I mean, it could be an asset because they tried to cancel him so we hired him because we didn't want to -- do you get where I'm going with this?

POWERS: Yes. I mean, that's the whole, there is always this built-in way to make yourself the victim even if you're the perpetrator, you know, in the conservative world. And so, he can just --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: But can I --

POWERS: -- claim no matter what happened that he was just targeted by the deep state, even though we know it was Bill Barr. It doesn't matter that he could still claim that.

LEMON: Last word quickly, Evan.

PEREZ: These -- these aren't the olden days though, being a congressman like Matt Gaetz a back venture. It doesn't really pay anything.

[22:55:02]

I mean, notoriety is what pays and that's one reason why you want to be on television, you want to be on Fox or News Max or whatever because that's what pays.

LEMON: Thank you, both. Good point. I'll see you soon.

Multiple eyewitnesses testifying in the trial of Derek Chauvin. And new body cam video released publicly for the first time. We have that for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): Emotional testimony and graphic police body cam videos of George Floyd's arrest seen publicly for the first time. All part of day three of the murder trial of ex-police officer Derek Chauvin accused of killing George Floyd by kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds.

Also, tonight, President Biden pitching his $2 trillion infrastructure and jobs plan which he calls a once in a generation investment in America.

[23:00:01]

And In the battle against COVID-19, Pfizer reporting clinical trials showing that its vaccine is 100 percent effective in adolescents 12 to 15 years old.