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Don Lemon Tonight

One Officer Killed, One Wounded, Attacker Dead at U.S. Capitol; Derek Chauvin's Trial for the Death of George Floyd; Witnesses Share Feelings of Guilt Over George Floyd's Death; NYT: Receipts Show Rep. Gaetz Sent Money to Women Using Cash Apps, Gaetz Denies Allegations. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 02, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Yet another deadly assault on the U.S. Capitol. A barrier and heroic police officer stopping a driver armed with a knife who tried ramming his car through a key security checkpoint, but the bravery of those officers costing one of them his life.

We're also watching Derek Chauvin's murder trial in George Floyd's death, damning testimony from the most senior officer of -- on the Minneapolis police force.

And embattled Congressman Matt Gaetz is losing a key staffer amid the widening sex trafficking investigation. Newly resurfaced audio shows Gaetz praising a friend now criminally charged.

But we start with our nation's capital right now, still healing from the deadly insurrection on January 6th, once again lowering flags to half-staff from the White House to Congress.

Brian Todd tonight with the attack and the many questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A suspect in a car rammed two Capitol police officers at the security barrier at the Capitol complex then got out of the vehicle wielding a knife, police say.

YOGANANDA PITTMAN, ACTING CHIEF, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: He did not respond to verbal commands. The suspect did start lunging toward U.S. Capitol police officers at which time U.S. Capitol police officers fired upon the suspect.

TODD (voice-over): At least one of the officers was stabbed, an official tells CNN. One officer died from his injuries, William Evans, an 18-year veteran of the force. A second officer was injured.

PITTMAN: I ask that you keep our U.S. Capitol police family in your thoughts and prayers.

TODD (voice-over): The suspect identified by sources as Noah Green, age 25, is dead as well. He was not familiar to Capitol police, authorities said. No initial indication of ties to terrorism but the motive is unknown.

UNKNOWN: Clearly this was someone who was actively trying to just get at whoever or whatever. We just don't know.

TODD (voice-over): A unit from the National Guard was immediately deployed to assist. Members of Congress are mostly out of town during the break. Authorities say they're not aware of a particular lawmaker being targeted but an emergency lockdown order was issued for the complex.

The incident comes amid an increase in reported threats to lawmakers in recent months and a debate over removing more of the fencing around the Capitol in place of the January 6th riot targeting lawmakers and reducing the National Guard deployment. Some members on both sides of the aisle had been chafing in recent weeks.

REP. SCOTT DESJARLAIS (R-TN): It's really discouraging to see the razor wire, the fencing, the image that it sends to the world. So, if that threat no longer exists, I will hope that we can return to normal.

TODD (voice-over): Today's incident could reverse that debate.

REP. JO KHANNA (D-CA): Once the barriers were removed, then we're moving back to some sense of normalcy. But this just shows the level of risk that there still is.

TODD (voice-over): In today's case, praise for the response by the police.

RUSSEL HONORE, RETIRED LIEUTENANT GENERAL, U.S. ARMY: Unfortunately, we lost Officer Evans today, but by and large, the system worked. The Capitol police responded. They stopped him. The system worked.

TODD: And we have new information on the second police officer who was struck by the vehicle. Police say that that officer is now in stable condition at a local hospital with nonlife threatening injuries as investigators continue to try to piece together more information on the more specific motive for this attack. Don?

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON: Brian Todd in Washington. Brian, thank you so much for that.

Joining me now, CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez and national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. Good evening. Evan, you've been digging into the suspect, his disturbing social media presence. What are you learning?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, trying to get to that motive that Brian just talked about. What beginning -- what's beginning to emerge from some of the social media posts, what you see on Instagram and in Facebook is a picture of a very disturbed man. He's 25 years old. And on some of these Instagram postings, he talks about his spiritual journey. He says he's become a follower of Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the nation -- the Nation of Islam.

In one of it posts, he talks about -- he says I've suffered multiple home break-ins, food poisonings, assaults, unauthorized operations in the hospital, mind control.

[23:05:00]

PEREZ: He shared a meme recently, Don, in which he says -- you see a picture of Louis Farrakhan and he says the U.S. government is the number one enemy of Black people. He talks in another posting about -- that he believes that he was having affliction, presumably from the CIA and the FBI and other government agencies.

Again, he appears to have paranoia. He appears to believe that the government was responsible for some of his afflictions, including what he said caused him to lose his job. And so, what the investigators are trying to figure out now is was mental illness part of the reason why he came to the Capitol today.

Again, it appears to be some kind of political issue he seems to have about the U.S. government. And again, this is an investigation still only at the beginning as they try to talk to friends and family, try to understand what happened in the recent days that may have triggered today.

LEMON: Juliette, you heard Evans say that the suspect believed the government was targeting with him mind control. Did -- do you think that January 6th in any way, the insurrection makes the Capitol an even bigger target for anyone that has grievance with the government just to show up and try to air or correct the grievance?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think January 6 is relevant but not likely in this case. I think January 6 is relevant in the sense that you just described that it may have shown to the world the vulnerabilities of the Capitol. On the other hand, it has also been fortified. So, anyone watching would have known it was fortified at least for some period of time.

But the other thing that is actually the sort of good news in the world that I live in, which is the -- because of the security posture after January 6, you really did see sort of the minimization of a potentially much greater threat relatively early on. I mean the car was stopped. The assailant was killed. We've lost a police officer.

But in some ways, when we measure these kinds of attacks, especially ones that are so hard to predict, a crazy guy gets into a car and just rams into the Capitol, the quick work of the Capitol police which was because they were being more vigilant is related to January 6.

I will say one final thing about January 6. That the -- the politicization of security at the Capitol, in other words trying to minimize what happened on January 6 and the number of people that died and the two officers that have committed suicide since, really has to get out of our dialogue now.

I mean, it is clear that the Capitol is under some threat and we need to keep up some security measure for a period of time. It's not nice -- it's not good to say that the idea that there's not a threat now, I mean, just look at the last three months. I mean, I think we have to keep up an aggressive posture not only -- not only to protect people in the Capitol but to protect the Capitol police who have lost so many people in the last three months.

LEMON: But you -- you know how Washington works. There were people --

KAYYEM: Yeah.

LEMON: -- who will try to exploit this politically as well. So, you know, we may not be hearing that much of it and say away from Washington now --

KAYYEM: Yeah.

LEMON: -- but wait until they get back next week. You're surely going to hear it.

Evan, homicide detectives were examining a police cruiser at George Washington University Hospital where that injured Capitol police officer is being treated. What were they looking for? Do we know?

PEREZ: We don't know exactly what was -- what was happening inside that vehicle, but we know from a statement earlier today, Don, the U.S. Capitol police, that one of the officers who were injured was taken by the police cruiser, via police cruiser to the hospital.

It appears to be that vehicle that you're showing right now, that was the vehicle that the police -- the metropolitan police were examining there in the -- at George Washington Hospital. And so it appears to me that's the vehicle they brought an officer in.

Now, look, this is crime scene. We know that these two officers were struck by the -- by this -- by this vehicle and we know that he came out wildly swinging his arms with a knife. We don't know exactly what exactly happened.

And so I think they're still trying to put together using the surveillance camera, if the officer was injured and was carried, taken there. They have to try to examine the crime scene to make sure they understand everything that happened.

LEMON: Listen. This one -- you know, this is different than what we -- usually, Juliette, we're covering someone who has taken many lives, right, because they have access to semiautomatic weapons or what have you. The suspect didn't have an AR-15 -- an AR-15-style weapon. Anyone has access to a car, to a knife, right?

KAYYEM: Yeah.

LEMON: So how do you prevent this kind of attack? I was actually surprised because I haven't been to D.C. Obviously, we've all been on -- in quarantine and lockdown. But I haven't been there. I'm surprised that the officers actually stand in front of the barricades, right?

[23:10:00]

KAYYEM: Yeah.

LEMON: Isn't that what the barricade is about? But I think --

PEREZ: They stand in front.

LEMON: Yeah. And why are they standing in front? They have to check IDs, I would imagine, but --

PEREZ: Right.

LEMON: -- I think this is going to change some protocol, Juliette.

KAYYEM: Yeah, I think it absolutely will and should. Obviously, the loss of a police officer is a -- is a big deal for any police force. But certainly, this one -- just to your point, the -- the use of a car and the use of a knife are not -- are not sort of mass casualty events in most instances. We've seen automobiles used and certainly trucks in France.

And so that also goes to motivation, as we try to determine was there a political purpose as compared to a political grievance. And I'm not mincing words. Those are different for purposes of an investigation. The use of a car and a knife, which are -- which in a country like ours, where you can so easily get a gun, is relevant to the investigation.

They go to the timing. How much -- did he just wake up and decide I'm going to go do this as compared to maybe trying to get a gun or did they go to his desire to be -- to be killed, which ultimate did happen? All of those will be relevant to the investigation.

So, as you said, this does not fit our normal mold. And so, while it seems -- sometimes things seem similar as January 6 and now and often aren't. That's why we reserve judgment for the investigation to go forward.

LEMON: Yeah. Thank you both. I just want to put up the officer's picture, Capitol Police Officer William Evans, killed today in the line of duty. Our hearts go out to his entire family and to the entire police department family, his family at home and also his broader family, the police officers there in the nation's capital.

Thank you both. I appreciate it.

A top officer in the Minneapolis Police Department testifying Derek Chauvin's use of force against George Floyd was totally unnecessary. And that's not all. He said that could be devastating for the defense.

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[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Prosecutors in Derek Chauvin's murder trial presenting a strong case this week marked by tearful testimony, gut-wrenching videos replaying George Floyd's death over and over, and the most senior officer in the Minneapolis Police Department slamming Chauvin's actions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): What is your -- you know, your view of that use of force during that time period?

RICHARD ZIMMERMAN, SENIOR OFFICER, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Totally unnecessary. Pulling him down to the ground face down and putting your knee on a neck for that amount of -- that amount of time is just uncalled for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, CNN's Omar Jimenez following this very closely and he joins me now live. Omar, the prosecution called on Lieutenant Zimmerman because of his seniority. He's been with the force for nearly 40 years. How important was his testimony?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Don, it's incredibly important and not just because he's testifying for prosecutors to basically say that Chauvin's actions were unnecessary, when he was asked by prosecutors, I should say, but also because when you take the context with which he is testifying, it's not just him in regard to law enforcement.

You hear about this blue code of silence when you regard officers. He's one of multiple law enforcement officers that have testified as part of this trial saying basically that Chauvin's actions were unacceptable.

And then when you move forward to look at more of his testimony, he specifically pointed to training and that he could find nowhere in his training where a knee to the neck on someone in the prone position is acceptable. And here some of how he answered when he was asked about that by prosecutors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Have you ever, in all the years you've been working for the Minneapolis Police Department, been trained to kneel on the neck of someone who is handcuffed behind their back in the prone position?

ZIMMERMAN: No, I haven't. That would be the top tier, the deadly force. Because of the fact that if your knee is on a person's neck, that can kill them.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): What has the training been with regard to the prone position?

ZIMMERMAN: Once a person is cuffed, you need to turn them on their side or have them sit up. You need to get them off their chest. Your muscles are pulling back when you're handcuffed. And if you're lying on your chest, that's constricting your breathing even more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And Zimmerman was among 14 Minneapolis police officers who signed on to a letter condemning Derek Chauvin and his actions in this, saying that they did not treat George Floyd's life with dignity. And again, he was the last witness to testify as part of this week, one of multiple law enforcement officers.

LEMON: You know, Omar, today the defense trying to argue that police policy allows for improvisation, but that fell flat in the redirect. The lieutenant saying based on the body cam that he didn't see or need -- the need for Chauvin to improvise with his knee for 9-1/2 minutes. So, where does that leave the defense now?

JIMENEZ: Well, the strategy for the defense for most of that cross- examination seemed to be trying to decrease the credibility of Zimmerman because despite him serving on the force for such a long time, for decades, they pointed to the fact that he hasn't necessarily been on the streets as of late.

And so they tried to basically say that, look, your use of force training while you've had it in the past, it's not so much relevant now. And they even emphasize that his normal track, his normal job would not encompass analyzing use of force incidents.

That said, it kept coming back to the fact that with all of his years of experience, Zimmerman couldn't point to a single part of policy that made this OK in his eyes. Not to mention, he has also taken annual defense training so is up to date on what would be happening in the field. And the last part it says, at the end of the day, the suspect is in the officer's hands until an ambulance arrives if necessary.

[23:19:59]

JIMENEZ: And if medical assistance is needed to be done, it needs to be done by the officers, which as we know was not done in this case.

LEMON: Omar Jimenez, live in Minneapolis. Thank you, Omar. Appreciate your reporting.

I want to bring in now CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson, law enforcement veteran Neil Franklin, as well. Good evening, gentlemen.

Neil, despite what we've heard from Lt. Zimmerman, the defense is still arguing that Chauvin did what was right and followed police protocols, saying police can resort to improvisation if the situation calls for it. Does that make sense to you in this context?

NEIL FRANKLIN, LAW ENFORCEMENT VETERAN, FORMER MARYLAND STATE POLICE OFFICER: No, it doesn't. The prosecution can say whatever they want and they're going to say whatever they can to try to convince the jury otherwise. But the bottom line is there is no such training as to what Chauvin did on the neck of George Floyd.

So, they're going to bring in the experts later on, you're going to bring in training experts later on, you're going to bring in policy, and they're going to show -- the prosecution is going to show the specifics, the details that point to what Lieutenant Zimmerman was saying. There is no such training.

LEMON: Yeah. I think you meant the defense will say whatever they want in defense of Chauvin.

FRANKLIN: Yeah, I'm sorry about it.

LEMON: No, no.

FRANKLIN: The defense will say that.

LEMON: I get it. It's been a long week. Trust me.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I get it. Joey, listen, the defense trying to paint Zimmerman as out of touch with how policing has evolved since he last patrolled. Is that going to be effective with the jury?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think --

LEMON: Especially with someone who has got 40 years of experience on the force. Go on.

JACKSON: Yeah. I think he was a devastating witness. And you could raise all of the issues you want about you're no longer on the streets, you're not really there in the mix anymore, you're with the old school, you're out of time, you're out of touch. That's good. It sounded good. But at the end of the day, he was (INAUDIBLE) for the following reasons.

Quickly, there are three pillars of this case. The first relates to cause of death, right? Was there causation there? The second relates to the whole self-defense issue. The third relates to the whole issue about muddying about Zimmerman and not really humanizing him.

If you look at the charges and what his testimony was to, it was powerful. Why? Because it went to that pillar that relates to the whole issue of when you could use self-defense. And the first count basically says it's an assault. If you assault and during the course of the assault, you kill someone, that is second degree murder. That's 40 years.

Why would it be an assault under this officer's testimony? Well, if the training manual says you can't do it, if it violates police protocols and procedures, if it's something you're not supposed to do and trained to do and you do it anyway, isn't that an assault? And if someone dies, doesn't that get you second degree murder?

Don, say the jury doesn't buy that, but they do buy the fact that if he's lying in a prone position, as the officer testified to -- excuse me, the lieutenant testified to, if you're laying prone face down, head down, and you're supposed to when you're trained to pick him up because you're restricting breathing and put them on their side and you don't do that, that goes to an issue of a depraved heart, that you knew what you were doing was wrong, you didn't care, you're inhumane.

That gets you to the second count, which is third degree murder to (inaudible) indifference. Finally, and briefly, on the manslaughter charge, all you have to show is criminal negligence. Well, if the policies, protocols, regulations, nothing says you do it, you get trained every year, you've been on the force 19 years, that's 19 times you knew it, at least you were negligent.

And if you're negligent and someone dies, that gets you convicted of a manslaughter charge, which is 10 years, very powerful testimony by this witness.

LEMON: Joey --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I would want -- I would want Joey -- Joey, hey, let me get your number.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: That was very good, Joey. Neil, listen, the defense's arguments -- what were you going to say, Neil?

FRANKLIN: I was going to speak to a larger picture, too, about how we even got to this place? You had Andrew Myers (ph) on earlier talking about a change in law and change in policies that we need going forward. So, the question is why do we even physically arrest for nonviolent offenses like this when we know who the person is? You know, we have a name, we have an address, they're not wanted for anything else, and for a counterfeit $20 bill?

LEMON: That's the point. OK, Neil, Neil, let me ask you this, because I know where you're going with it. I will give you plenty of time to respond. But that's the thing. They don't really know them. They don't really have a relationship. Maybe they've seen him before. But do they really know them and is it really worth $20, real, fake, real or otherwise? That's been the whole point the entire time.

FRANKLIN: Absolutely. Right. But they ran his name. They -- look, you have ID. They ran his name, no warrants. And it's not just about George Floyd, Don. It's about all these arrests that we make across the country every day, thousands of arrests similar to this, putting handcuffs on people, putting them in patrol cars and transport wagons and in the detention centers.

[23:25:00]

FRANKLIN: For what, when we can ID them, we can send them summon, have them come to court to explain themselves. Why are we doing this?

JACKSONL: But you know, Don, it's beyond that also. It's not only the why are we arresting for that. It's the manner in which the arrest was made. If you evaluate any of the videos in this case, the lack of humanity was palpable, the lack of respect, the discourtesy, the F- bombs thrown at him initially when he's in the car.

He's showing his hands. He's pleading at that point saying, you know what I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not that kind of guy. His hands are on the wheel, "F" this, "F" that, the guns there, it is like, are you kidding? And then when they were trying later on when he was confident trying to get him in the car, he is saying, hey, I'm claustrophobic and only I'm claustrophobic but I have anxiety, I'm not a bad guy, please. And they don't show -- just talk to him.

It's called interpersonal communication. It's called just look, I understand you, sir, we're going to get through this, don't worry, we got you, we need you to do this. It's just push, shove. And it escalated so quickly.

And so if we talk about the escalation, you can talk about all the policies and programs you want, just talk to me like I'm a human being, and maybe we are not talking about this case. And that's what's so distressing about it.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. I think we'll -- I think we'll end it with that. Thank you, Joey Jackson. Thank you, Neil Franklin. Listen, happy Easter to both of you. Thank you so much.

FRANKLIN: You, too, Don.

LEMON: A week of painful testimony reverberating all across the country. What a traumatized nation can learn from the grief and guilt shown by the witnesses. And we're going to have Mr. Mark McKinnon next. You don't want to miss that.

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[23:30:00]

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LEMON: A fifth day of testimony in the murder trial of Minneapolis -- former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin. Several witnesses in the trial are expressing their own guilt and grief over the events surrounding George Floyd's death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GENEVIEVE HANSON, WITNESS AND MINNEAPOLIS FIREFIGHTER: I would have requested additional help. I would have wanted someone to call 911 for the paramedics and fire to come. I would have asked someone to run to the gas station and look for an AED. And I would have checked his -- I would have checked his airway.

UNKNOWN: What was going through your mind during that time period?

CHRISTOPHER MARTIN, CUP FOODS EMPLOYEE: Disbelief and guilt.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Why guilt?

MARTIN: If I would have just not taken the bill, this could have been avoided.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I know this is difficult. Can you just explain sort of what you're feeling in this moment?

CHARLES MCMILLIAN, WITNESS: I can -- I feel helpless. I don't have a mama either, but I understand him. My mom died June 25th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What is the impact, though, beyond the courtroom? Let's discuss. Mark McKinnon is here, former advisor to George W. Bush and John McCain. Mark, I mean the incredible credible witnesses and also just real folks there on the witness stand. What did you make of this week?

MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So powerful, Don. You know, how many times over the past four or five years you and I talked about a school shooting or some criminal justice -- injustice act that occurred and we've talked about, you know, it's happened again, you know, are things going to change? And they don't change, you know.

In fact, I'm thinking of a very thoughtful writer who said the weeping passes and the rage takes hold. The rage burns out and blame begins. The blame bounces back and forth, and promises are made and the promises wither and complacency return.

I'm not sure this time, Don. This week of testimony was so compelling, so profound, the sense of communal grief and guilt that the bystanders experience but by extension all of us experience.

I have the sense that I'm watching something that's going to make a change, that's going to make a difference. It feels like this trial is kind of like a trial of a lifetime. I mean, I know we see a lot of big courtroom dramas and courtroom justices and injustices, but this one feels big to me, Don.

LEMON: Yeah, this one feels different. Thank you. You're reading from my book. I do -- I believe that this one does feel different. Listen, nothing is going to end any of this. But certainly, there are points in time, and I think this is an inflection point, where we make things better, where there's an awakening, where we have epiphanies, right, where we start moving in different and better directions. And I do believe that this is one of them.

And how can it not be when you have -- when you have America's humanity on display in that courtroom in Minneapolis? I do believe that, especially you've got testimony from an underage witness, you got, you know, teenagers and so -- go on, Mark.

MCKINNON: The clerk feeling bad and feeling guilty about pushing the whole deal with the $20 bill.

LEMON: Let's listen -- let's listen and then I'll let you finish your statement. Let's listen to some of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D.F., UNDERAGE WITNESS TO GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH (voice-over): When I look at George Floyd, I look at -- I look at my dad, I look at my brothers, I look at my cousins, my uncles, because they are all Black. I have a Black father, I have a Black brother, I have Black friends.

[23:35:03]

D.F.: And I look at that and I look at how that could have been one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: This is a time, too, and I think it's happening in a way, time for honestly white people in America not to turn away, not to say this is hard to watch, I can't watch this -- to watch it and to lean into it. Go on.

MCKINNON: Yeah. I mean, hearing that kind of testimony, I think that -- I think we're learning a lot. And it's -- people look at so often in American jurisprudence. The victim gets puts on trial rather than the perpetrator.

And I think this is one where people are just -- you know, they're looking at it through a different lens now. They're seeing the humanity of George Floyd. They're seeing the humanity of the people who observed and couldn't do anything, were powerless to change things.

So, I think that this is -- this is like a communal experience that we're all going through. And, you know, i think people are really watching. And I think that it is a growing chapter in American culture that, like you said, it is going to be -- racism isn't going away overnight or any time in the near future or maybe ever, but I think this is going to change us.

LEMON: You know, my colleague, our colleague, CNN's Nia-Malika Henderson, out with a very fantastic powerful piece explaining why she is not following the trial. For her and many other people of color, she says it is traumatizing. She says that George Floyd is owed by a nation that so regularly has enabled the suffering to continue. Do you understand what she's saying? Talk to me about that, Mark.

MCKINNON: Oh, sure. And there's a great colleague of mine that talks about the trauma that has historically been placed upon Asian-American bodies, and that by watching that, we get desensitized to it, and then it gets proliferated into our media and it gets normalized. So, I totally get that. It's a very powerful point of view. And so, I totally respect it.

On the other hand, I think it's really important for white viewers to see that white officer sitting on that man's chest for nine minutes, 4-1/2 minutes after he stopped breathing, because there is no way that can be excused away or defended.

LEMON: Yeah. You know, you're right. In most conversations I've had over, you know, since the book has launched is how much to show, when is it exploitation, when is it a snuff film, when is it illustrative, when is it too much, and those are things that we have to deal with.

They're important questions, but, you know, at the very least, we are having a conversation about it, and I think it is actually moving people toward some action. People are actually starting to do the work. So, let's just hope. Again, we're not going to fix it. And if anybody tells you they have all the answers, as I say in the book, run away, right? Mark --

MCKINNON: Yeah.

LEMON: Yeah.

MCKINNON: It feels like a different conversation, Don. It really does.

LEMON: Thank you, Mark. Have a happy Easter to you and Annie. Be well.

MCKINNON: Thanks.

MCKINNON: And to you and Tim. Thanks.

LEMON: Thank you. Thank you so much. So, Mark was reading from my new book. It's called "This is the Fire: What I Say to My Friends About Racism." It is out now, and I hope you will check it out.

The investigation into GOP Congressman Matt Gaetz is getting more and more alarming. A new -- and now, I should say, a top staffer is jumping ship.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So tonight, the spokesperson for Congressman Matt Gaetz leaving his job as more details emerge in the allegations against the congressman.

The New York Times reviewing receipts in the investigation into whether Gaetz paid cash to women for sex and whether he had a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old girl.

Paula Reid tonight with audio that may do nothing to help the congressman's reputation amid the growing scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, the federal investigation into Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz for possible prostitution and sex trafficking crimes, including an alleged relationship with a minor, now centering around his friendship with this man, Joel Greenberg.

JOEL GREENBERG, FORMER SEMINOLE COUNTY TAX COLLECTOR: It really is an honor to be here today.

REID (voice-over): In addition, investigators believe Greenberg, a former Seminole County, Florida tax collector, recruited multiple women online for sex and that he introduced the women who received cash payments to Gaetz who had sex with them, too, according to The New York Times.

The Times said it reviewed Apple pay and cash app receipts that show Gaetz and Greenberg made payments to one of the women and one payment from Greenberg to a different woman. In a statement, Gaetz's office said Matt Gaetz has never paid for sex. Matt Gaetz refutes all the disgusting allegations completely.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Providing for flights and hotel rooms for people that you're dating who are of legal age is not a crime.

REID (voice-over): But a source telling CNN investigators are examining whether any federal campaign money was involved in paying for travel and expenses for the women. Gaetz and Greenberg have been friends for years, posting photos together, and Gaetz even telling a local radio station that Greenberg would make a good member of Congress in 2017.

GAETZ (voice-over): If Joel were to run from Seminole County, I think he'd become the next congressman from the seventh district.

REID (voice-over): The duo, according to a Florida lawmaker, leaving an unsolicited voice mail on her cellphone. She gave a recording of the message to CNN.

GREENBERG (voice-over): This is your favorite tax collector. I'm up in the panhandle with your favorite U.S. congressman Mr. Gaetz.

GAETZ: Hi, Anna.

GREENBERG (voice-over): And we were just chatting about you and talking about your lovely qualities and --

GAETZ: We think you're the future of the Democratic Party in Florida.

REID (voice-over): Additionally, information that may connect Gaetz to a fake ID scheme at the center of Greenberg's case was presented to federal investigators at a meeting last year, sources familiar tells CNN.

[23:45:01]

REID (voice-over): Greenberg had entered a plea of not guilty. Attorneys for Greenberg and Gaetz had no comment.

In addition to the federal investigation, multiple sources told CNN Gaetz showed lawmakers photos and videos of nude women he claimed to have slept with. One source saying Gaetz shared the images on his phone while on the floor of the House. REID: Tonight, Gaetz finds himself with few public allies. His communications director resigned earlier today. And even though Gaetz was one of the most vocal Trump supporters, so far, the former president has remained silent amid this escalating set of scandals that could potentially end Gaetz's political career. Don?

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON: Paula Reid, thank you so much. Congressman Gaetz certainly is in a lot of hot water. How much legal jeopardy he could be facing? That's next.

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[23:50:00]

LEMON: So, we are back now with more on this widening investigation into Florida GOP Congressman Matt Gaetz.

I want to bring in now CNN legal analyst Jennifer Rodgers, a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, and CNN political commentator Charlie Dent, a former Republican congressman. Good evening.

Just -- I mean, Jennifer --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: We speak and then more comes out. And then we have to have you back to talk about it again. Charlie, good to see you as well. Jennifer, thank you for joining.

Earlier tonight, Jennifer, The New York Times reporter who broke the story spoke with CNN about the text messages and receipts that she reviewed. So, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATIE BENNER, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": One of the interesting things about the messages that we reviewed is that the messages are very clear. They say, meet me here at this time. I can give you a thousand dollars.

Now, the men might argue that the money in those messages would be for something else. But again, keep in mind, it's the women who are saying that they were paid for sex.

So, the messages could not be clearer, at least that people were meeting, that they were meeting in a hotel, and that money was going to change hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. So, Jennifer, Gaetz denies all of this, but the allegations are damning. How much trouble is Gaetz potentially in?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Potentially, a lot of trouble, Don. I mean what we knew a few days ago and keep in mind none of this is likely news to federal investigators, of course. They have been looking at this for months. This is just that we are all kind of getting up to speed now.

But before, it sounded like he was involved with a girl who was underage, and he made a payment to hotel rooms and so on. Now, it's sounding more like he is actually paying for sex, more like a prostitution situation. So, that ups the ante.

I mean, the most serious child sex trafficking offenses can be mandatory minimums of 10 or even 15 years in prison. So, these are very serious. But it depends a lot on the facts and, of course, whether he is even charged or not, which is something that we are still waiting to find out.

LEMON: Yeah. We are going to work on your -- the video. We can hear you perfectly. But so -- we are getting the message. So, don't worry about that even if the video goes in and out. People at home watching, we can still hear Jennifer.

Charlie, I want to bring you in. It seems like Matt Gaetz is in deep trouble, as Jennifer said. On top of all this, CNN -- you know, Gaetz showed lawmakers -- CNN is reporting that Gaetz showed lawmakers images of nude women that he claimed to have slept with, playing some of the videos on the House floor. Can he survive this politically? I mean, he's got to deal with the legal angle, but politically, what do you think?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think, politically, he is very isolated and in an unsustainable position. The lights are shining very brightly on him. He will come under tremendous pressure to resign.

Look, you know, the prostitution -- the allegations of prostitution, the allegations of child sex trafficking, and, you know, the fake IDs, I mean, that's the most serious issue. But he is going to have an ethical problem, too, because he showed those pictures.

I can see what's going to happen. Members of Congress will likely be called as witnesses. You know, who -- who did Matt Gaetz showed those pictures to? And members are going to be put in an awkward position.

So, I believe that, you know, Kevin McCarthy is going to have to have a very serious conversation with Matt Gaetz about leaving for the good of the institution. And we have dealt with this before, Don. I mean, I saw the Mark Foley situation, Anthony Weiner, Eric Massa, Katie Hill. That was not as serious but over nude photos from an estranged or an ex-husband.

These are -- and people left because of the damage it was doing not only to their -- to the -- to the institution, but it was making it difficult for them to represent their constituents. And the rest of the body is now -- if you are a Republican, you are spending your time talking about Matt Gaetz rather than maybe other issues you want to focus on.

LEMON: Yeah. Jennifer, CNN has obtained audio of Gaetz praising Greenberg. It's 2017. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAETZ (voice-over): Joel Greenberg has gone into the Seminole County tax collector's office. He's taken it by storm. He's been a disruptor. And he's brought sort of a modern approach to management to that office. And if you look at what people want in the country right now, they want that disruptor. They want someone with business experience, and they want someone who is not going to adhere to the dogmas that have strangled progress in Washington, D.C. for a generation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Greenberg is in jail, facing allegations similar to Gaetz. Could Greenberg end up cooperating with the investigation and then flipping on Gaetz?

RODGERS: Well, it's always possible. He's in prison because of a bail violation. He is facing his trial in June. So, he hasn't been convicted yet. It just depends on who is the bigger fish. I mean, if Greenberg really was driving all of this and Matt Gaetz just dabbled in it, then maybe they wouldn't flip Greenberg on Gaetz. But that's something prosecutors are going to have to figure out, if Greenberg is willing.

I tell you what. Prosecutors are always certainly willing to think about it and talk about it. So, if Greenberg wants to come in, I am sure they'll hear him out and hear what he has to say.

[23:55:04]

LEMON: Charlie, give me your final thoughts because, listen, he doesn't have a lot of goodwill, political goodwill or friends in D.C., it seems. He's antagonized a lot of people.

DENT: Oh, he sure does. In fact, there are many members that were having, you know, gleeful feelings right now. They are -- he's made enemies. They want him gone, clearly. You know, his staff is bailing on him. His communications director left. They're all worried about their own reputations now, the staff. They need jobs.

So, he is going to be very isolated, very lonely. I don't know how he is going to continue to serve. You know, I've seen members resign for hell of a lot less and I have seen Republican leaders force resignations on their members when they become this type of a distraction or embarrassment.

LEMON: Charlie, Jennifer, thank you. Jennifer, I see it perfect. Everything is great now.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: We -- we could hear you and see you both. Have a great weekend. RODGERS: Thanks.

LEMON: Thank you so much.

DENT: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Thank you for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

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