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Don Lemon Tonight
Minneapolis Chief Testifies Against Derek Chauvin; GOP Calls President Biden A Liar; Trump Supporters Donated Millions Of Dollars; Congressman Matt Gaetz Faces Sex Trafficking Scandal; Floyd Family Hopes To Get Justice; The Importance Of Speaking The Truth. Aired 10- 11p ET
Aired April 05, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): Time for the big show, "CNN TONIGHT" and the big star, D. Lemon.
Two big blows and two big stories. The George Floyd murder case had the chief of police saying this was wrong --
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Yes.
CUOMO: -- to the point of illegal and what we saw was murder. And the misdirection played by Matt Gaetz, I think blew up on this show tonight. I think Bob Kent is credible and I don't see anything in his suggestions to the father that would qualify under any legal reckoning of extortion.
LEMON: Listen, yes, I, with that story I'd like to proceed with caution. I believe in innocent until proven guilty.
CUOMO: Hundred percent.
LEMON: We have already established that. So, I --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: But those are two different things.
LEMON: So, I don't know.
CUOMO: The investigation of what Gaetz did --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- he got away for the facts.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: We do not know them.
LEMON: The thing about extortion -- CUOMO: But the extortion thing.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: One might be fact, this extortion thing, fugazzi.
LEMON: Yes. Well, we'll see on that one. And listen, I think that it's -- shouldn't he just be quiet right now? Shouldn't he just be quiet?
CUOMO: He has. By the way, I reached out to him. I want him to come on the show and answer the real questions in a real place if he wants real credibility. Lawyer said he's not talking anyway.
LEMON: He is not going to do that. He's not going to do that. I mean, if he has not been on the state-run TV, which now -- by the way, --
CUOMO: He went on.
LEMON: -- well, yes, Tucker is like that. We can get a chance to talk about that interview. Co, Chris, that's like today when I ran into you at breakfast and then you're like, breakfast, I don't remember seeing you. What are you talking about? Well, it was Tim and I we're a breakfast. You remember Tim? No, I have no idea what you are talking about.
CUOMO: The signature face.
LEMON: I was -- I was watching that in my office, you know, I had this little -- you haven't seen it yet, I have this little treadmill under my desk, a walking treadmill. I almost fell off of it as I was watching that interview because it was hysterical. Tucker is like, I have no idea what you're talking about. He's got a friend who pulled him in. Two of us who are on the screen --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I mean, look, the shame, for me, you know, the corner aspect of it aside was that was the chance to ask this guy the questions to kind of setup where we are and where we should be with that kind of access and we didn't get it.
However, 180 degrees on -- in the George Floyd murder trial.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And I keep calling it that because one, Derek Chauvin while he is the accused former officer, the name isn't as known. And I also think it takes the eye off the importance here. George Floyd was a resident point as you will know and have spoken beautifully about him for many months, over a year now, but to see a chief of police on the stand --
LEMON: Your boss.
CUOMO: -- rare. Going against what the officers did, really rare.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Because he's using the standoff for their officers, yes.
CUOMO: Saying it was wrong and illegal, never heard it before.
LEMON: Yes. Well, I mean, listen, it's obvious what it was. I mean, it's obvious and, you know, I was on our morning show and we talked about this earlier last week, late last week. OK, yes, he is entitled to a vigorous defense. As you know you are an attorney. He is entitled to it. But we all know -- we all know what we saw with our own eyes. We know what was going on here. We know it's not in the training.
We know officers do it, some of them, and they don't think they are going to get caught and I think that Derek Chauvin did not obviously didn't think he would get caught. And then didn't even realize the seriousness of it and maybe it didn't matter to him. If you look at his demeanor on his own body camera video, it was shocking but it was a window into the world of how some of these officers operate and how they treat people they are supposed to protect and serve.
There, as I said last week, I don't think you're on, I think it was Friday, I don't think you were here when I said who is he protecting and serving? He protected and serve no one. Who or what does that scene did it protect and serve? Someone who is accused of passing a phony 20-dollar bill? OK. Is that worse someone's life? Is that worth what you did standing on the man's neck for or kneeling on that man's neck for 8 minutes and 29 seconds? Eight and a half minutes is --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: It's justified in one situation --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- where the officer's life was greatly threatened if he --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And handcuffed on the ground screaming I can't breathe?
CUOMO: No, I'm saying that the only time that it's OK --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- is to use lethal force which is what it wound up being.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Is when the officer or someone else's life was in grave danger.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: If it hadn't happened, I still think though the signs part could get a little sticky --
LEMON: Yes. [22:05:00]
CUOMO: -- and they only need one juror to be confused enough to think, he is not or she is not beyond reasonable doubt.
LEMON: That's one. Yes. So, listen, I got to go because I've seen you too much today. I did. I swear. I want to breakfast and some -- and there Chris, my gosh --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: You should've seen Don almost hit my truck twice while parking.
LEMON: That is not true.
CUOMO: And then believe he didn't know it was mine.
LEMON: That's not true. I was like, my gosh, and then now I got to see you again. That's enough Chris today. I'll see you.
CUOMO: I still love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON (on camera): I love you, too. I hope you had a great Easter. I'll talk to you later.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
So, let's talk about this and go into depth to what Chris and I were just talking about moments ago. By the way, we have a lot to cover. We got -- we got Matt Gaetz, we got baseball which I want to talk to Chris about. We'll talk about that. We've got Republicans and the whole Jedi mind trick about now Joe Biden is the big a liar into the Trump.
It is madness what's going on in the world right now. You thought he would settle down, didn't you? Nope, nope, no.
So, let's talk about the Chauvin trial. Slowly and methodically the prosecution team in the trial of ex-Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin poking holes in his main line of defense. Chauvin is on trial for the murder and manslaughter -- in the death of George Floyd last Memorial Day.
Kneeling on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds. We should just say nine and a half minutes, I mean, it's 29 seconds. Nine and a half minutes. Despite Floyd saying repeatedly that he couldn't breathe. Eventually losing consciousness. Chauvin's defense attorney telling the jury and reminder this is the central point to his defense. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE LAWYER: And you will learn that Derek Chauvin did exactly what he had been trained to do over the course of his 19-year career.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Witness after witness testifying that that is not true. That Chauvin was not trained, not at all to kneel on someone's neck. On the stand today, Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo who fired Chauvin and three other officers involved in Floyd's arrest the day after the deadly incident.
At the time nearly one year ago, chief Medaria Arradondo called Chauvin's actions murder. Arradondo testifying today that kneeling on a person's neck is not part of Minneapolis Police Department policy. That is not what the department teaches. He was asked directly by the prosecutor when should the restrain of George Floyd have ended. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEDARIA ARRADONDO, CHIEF, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Once Mr. Floyd had stopped resisting and certainly once he was in distress and trying to verbalize at, that should've stopped. There is an initial reasonableness and trying to just get him under control in the first few seconds but once there was no longer any resistance, and clearly, when Mr. Floyd was no longer responsive and even motionless to continue to apply that level of force to a person prone out, handcuffed behind their back, that in no way shape or form is anything that is by policy.
It's not part of our training and it is certainly not part of our ethics or our values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Remember, that is the chief of the department. And when the chief was finished testifying, prosecutors calling inspector Katie Blackwell who was the commander of the Minneapolis Police Department's field training division. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Let me ask you, officer, as you look at exhibit 17, is this a trained technique that's by the Minneapolis Police Department when you were overseeing the training of it?
KATIE BLACKWELL, INSPECTOR, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: It is not.
UNKNOWN: And why not?
BLACKWELL: Well, use of force according to policy has to be, you know, consistent with MPD training and what we train are neck restraint, the conscious and unconscious neck restraint. So, for policy, and neck restraint is compressing one or both sides of the neck using an arm or leg but what we train is using one arm or two arms to do a neck restrain.
UNKNOWN: And how does this differ?
BLACKWELL: I don't know what kind of improvised position that is. So that's not what we train. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Inspector Blackwell now the third high-ranking Minneapolis P.D. official to take the stand for the prosecution. On Friday the department's top homicide detective, Lieutenant Richard Zimmerman giving testimony that was damning to Chauvin's defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:09:55]
MATTHEW FRANK, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Have you ever, in all the years you have been working for the Minneapolis Police Department, been trained to kneel on the neck of someone who was handcuffed behind their back in a prone position?
RICHARD ZIMMERMAN, POLICE HOMICIDE OFFICER, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: No, I haven't.
FRANK: Is that -- if that were done, with that be considered force?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.
FRANK: What level of force might that be?
ZIMMERMAN: That would be the top tier, the deadly force.
FRANK: Why?
ZIMMERMAN: Because of the fact that if your knee is on a person's neck, that can kill him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): And Zimmerman followed that up with this statement from the trial record.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK: Based on your review of the body worn cameras videos of the incident --
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: -- and directing your attention to that moment when Mr. Floyd is placed on the ground --
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: -- what is your, you know, your view of that use of force during that time period?
ZIMMERMAN: Totally unnecessary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): For the record. And just a few moments I'm going to talk with George Floyd's family attorney and his brother.
Meanwhile, the Trump campaign was reportedly swindling money over the big lie. The former president responding to a weekend story in the New York Times detailing how the Trump campaign went about raising millions of dollars, millions of millions of dollars from supporters, many of them unknowingly signing up to get recurring donations when they thought that they were donating money one time only.
In a statement, Trump claiming that many supporters were so enthusiastic they gave over and over. And then if they gave too much, the campaign probably refunded their contributions. But he neglects to mention there were more than 500,000 refunds totaling $64 million to supporters who felt hoodwinked.
And get this, can you -- get this. Republicans have a new talking point trying to turn Trump's big lie on Joe Biden saying Joe Biden's lying about what's is in Georgia's new voting law that restricts ballot access.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ): He is lying about this bill. He is lying to the American people about it to cause the raging fire he said he was going to put out.
UNKNOWN: It all started with Joe Biden's big lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): It is a Jedi mind trick. OK, I want you to think about this, right? Think about Joe Biden's big lie. Republicans are suddenly concerned about lies? When they never even acknowledge the former guy? Was and is a serial liar. Now they are like, my God, Joe Biden is lying!
Really, Republicans? Did someone introduced the word lie back into your vocabulary recently because before lie your life, what does that mean, lie, never heard of the word. Now you are concerned about lies? Come on now!
OK, so the premise of all these laws we have to remember over the country it was actually built on the election fraud lies so now they are saying is Joe Biden's lie when all of these losses build on a lie. As I said, it's quite the Jedi mind trick yet it's easy to expose. Really?
Also, all of these all-star game things, the all-star game, right? Joe Biden never called for the game to be moved. That's what they are trying to say. Joe Biden is calling for the game to be moved and it was a big lie about the game.
Joe Biden answered a question about MLB, the MLB moving the game and his answer was one of accountability was not one of a lie, nor it was one of cancel culture, it's one of accountability.
Businesses are responding to what they feel is right, what they feel the people who buy their products, they are standing up for the folks who buy their products. What is wrong with that? I thought Republicans were all about capitalism, right?
Remember the whole thing about Nike and they were throwing away toasters and coffee makers or something like that because they were so upset about -- it makes no sense anymore. None. Do you believe in capitalism or you don't believe in capitalism? Do you believe in cancel culture or you don't believe in it? Because you are doing a whole lot of canceling.
One of Trump's biggest supporters on Capitol Hill is embattled Republican Matt Gaetz and he is taking a page right out of Trump's playbook. Never backed down. The GOP congressman from Florida is under investigation now, you know by the Justice Department for alleged sex trafficking prosecution and allegations of a sexual relationship with an underage. He denies the allegations and says that he is absolutely not resigning from Congress.
[22:15:03]
But the investigation is serious and Gaetz is lawyering up, and a former Gaetz staffer revealing publicly today that he was questioned by two FBI agents last week but denies knowledge of any legal activity, knowledge of any illegal activity, right?
And Republicans are always denouncing so-called cancel culture but then they say they do a whole lot of canceling. The GOP governor of Texas, case in point, Greg Abbott, refusing to throw out the ceremonial first pitch at tonight's home opener for the Texas Rangers, angry that Major League Baseball is moving the all-star game out of Atlanta in protest of Georgia's new voting law.
Governor Abbott taking a stand by not showing up. Yet being angry at MLB for making the same decision. As I said, it makes absolutely no sense. Figured out Republicans, what do you do, cancel or not, capitalism or not? Trump doesn't lie but Joe Biden does. We see you. That's why it doesn't stick. It's not sticking anymore, people aren't buying the B.S. They see you.
George Floyd's brother, Philonise, family attorney Ben Crump are here. They're going to tell me what they think about today's testimony by Minneapolis police chief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARRADONDO: The badge that I wear and that members of the Minneapolis Police Department where it means a lot because the first time that we interact with our community members may be the only time that they have an interaction, and so that has to count for something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON (on camera): The Minneapolis police chief, Medaria Arradondo delivering damning testimony against his former officer Derek Chauvin. Chief Arradondo telling the court that Chauvin's use of force during George Floyd's arrest was against department policy. He also testified that Chauvin failed to de-escalate the situation and did not help Floyd once he became nonresponsive.
Let's discuss. Philonise Floyd is here, George Floyd's brother, and Ben Crump, the attorney for the Floyd family. Gentlemen, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us this evening.
Philonise, I'm going to start with you. I want to ask you about Chief Arradondo delivering this powerful testimony saying Chauvin absolutely violated policy. How does it feel to hear him say that? He is a witness is on the stand and he is the police chief.
PHILONISE FLOYD, GEORGE FLOYD'S BROTHER: I'm just happy that somebody else noticed what the world has noticed too. He came out and said exactly what I thought he would say, because my brother he was faced down in a prone situation with his hands behind his back. He wasn't a threat to society or anything. He couldn't breathe, he stated that he couldn't breathe.
And just like the 61-year-old person to testify and say that the officer told him that if he can talk, he can breathe. So, I don't feel bad for Mr. Chauvin. I think that he will be convicted.
LEMON (on camera): You know, Philonise, I'm sure you remember this, you are on CNN's I can't breathe special, it was with me last year just days after your brother's death. You were able to ask a question to Chief Arradondo. I want to play that and then we'll talk about it. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Philonise, do you have a question for the chief?
FLOYD: The question that I have, I want to know if he is going to get justice for my brother. Arrest all the officers and convict him.
ARRADONDO: To the Floyd family, being silent or not intervening, to me, you are complicit. So, I don't see a level of distinction any different. So obviously, the charging and those decisions will have to come through our county's attorney's office, certainly the FBI is investigating that.
But to the Floyd family, I want you to know that my decision to fire all four officers was not based on some sort of hierarchy. Mr. Floyd died in our hands and so I see that as being complicit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (on camera): A bit surreal to sit back and look at that. That was a very, that was a moving moment, a very honest moment from the chief. Philonise, you know, he called it murder then, just weeks after that. Now he is testifying against Chauvin. What does that mean to you?
FLOYD: It is great. You know, it's not just me. This is for the world. This is a historic moment. A case of this magnitude, this is something that Black people, we never get justice for anything. That was a powerful moment and he stayed consistent with everything. I'm grateful and my family is grateful.
I just hope that we will get justice because I don't want another Breonna Taylor moment like she had, because they barricaded all of the buildings and she didn't even get justice. They think when they give money out, that's justice but it's not because they had an African- American guy who had killed a Caucasian woman and they gave her $20 million and he received 15 years. I expect that. I expect justice.
LEMON (on camera): Ben, we have now heard from multiple top police officials testifying on how Chauvin's use of force violated policy. Here is some of it and then we'll talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: So, is it your belief then that this particular form of restraint, if that's what you -- if that's what we'll call it, in fact violates departmental policy?
ARRADONDO: I absolutely agree that that violates our policy.
BLACKWELL: I don't know what kind of improvised position that is. So that's not what we trained.
[22:25:04]
ZIMMERMAN: Pulling him down to the ground, face down, and putting your knee on a neck for that amount of time is just uncalled for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, the defense is saying that, you know, he did exactly what he was trying to do. How damning is that for that defense?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR FLOYD FAMILY: I think that it obliterates it when you think about the fact that these officers all went and said what Derek Chauvin did, by keeping his knee on George Floyd's neck, was against policy.
And what's so interesting, Don, is the fact that we should expect all officers to do this but we all are riveted that you have police officers coming in and testifying to things that we have seen in many other cases. They just wouldn't have the content of their character and conviction to do it so we are very grateful to the chief and his ranking officers for coming in the courtroom and speaking truth to power.
LEMON: Philonise, Chief Arradondo also saying that Chauvin violated policy by failing to deliver aid to your brother. Does this confirm what we heard last week from bystanders that they knew something was wrong but were helpless to do anything about it?
FLOYD: Yes sir. Everybody out there, they knew that it was a problem because who would think that somebody would put all their weight on a man's neck, that's not protocol. You have four officers out there and I'll give each 150 pounds, total that's like 600 pounds, that 600 pounds of weight and he was trying to stay that. The guy was using the harbor restraint, but the harbor restraint doesn't come. My brother passed away. So, everybody else, this is a case in a cause. But to me, that's my brother.
LEMON: Yes. Ben, I got to ask you about this E.R. doctor who tried to save George Floyd's life, testifying that he likely died from lack of oxygen. Was that effective in undercutting the defense's argument that George Floyd died from drug use?
CRUMP: It was very effective because he said nobody even reported to him anything about drugs when they brought George to the E.R. You know, Don, we are always real when we come on your show and talk. If Derek Chauvin really believes that him putting his knee on George Floyd's neck for over than nine minutes then killed him, why don't he get on the floor in the courtroom and let somebody come and put their knee on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds?
The experts are all going to opine that the average human can go 30 seconds to 96 seconds without air. Well, we want to see if Chauvin can go for 400 seconds, as he said his knee didn't killed George Floyd.
LEMON: Ben, Philonise, thank you both. I appreciate your time.
FLOYD: Thank you.
CRUMP: Thank you.
LEMON: So, you don't see this too often, police testify against one of their own. Will that help the community heal? Professor Cornel West is here with more. That's next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): The second weekend testimony in the trial of ex- officer Derek Chauvin for the death of George Floyd, the Minneapolis police chief taking the stand today. Here is testifying about what he calls the pillar for use of force.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARRADONDO: While it is absolutely imperative, the officers go home at the end of their shift, we want to make sure and ensure that our community members go home too, and so sanctity of life is absolutely vital that that is the pillar for use of force.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So here to discuss, Dr. Cornel West of the public philosophy at Harvard University. Thank you, professor. I appreciate you joining us.
CORNEL WEST, PROFESSOR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Thank you, my dear brother.
LEMON: So, you heard the chief, how important are his comments about what the relationship should be between police and the community? I mean, everyone should be able to go home at the end of the day here.
WEST: Absolutely. No, you know, brother, I think Philonise put it so well and it's so good to see both of those brothers. I love those brothers so much. They are in the middle of battle against that dignity and (Inaudible). But it's really about Black humanity. You heard the chief say sanctity of life. It's important not to get too caught up with the evidence, it's the perception of the evidence that's going to make a difference. You see?
And so, when Philonise said America is on trial, Black humanities on trial, you know George is you, George is me, Breonna is you, Breonna is me, Black humanity is on trial and we know that if -- you can't prove your humanity to somebody. It's not a logical deduction. It's a moral perception and a spiritual communion.
So, we've had overwhelming evidence of Black humanity. We had it with Emmett Till, we had with Rodney King, we had it with Breonna, Sandra, we go right down and it's going to be the perception of the evidence. So, it's important that it's not a matter of just legality here.
We are talking about morality and spirituality and this is going to be the real challenge. This is why this is a historical moment like it was with Emmett, you see?
[22:29:45]
Because when you put humanity on trial, Black humanity in America, brother, you got a lot of will for ignorance and deliberate blindness and greed, and fear, and insecurity, and anxiety and it's all going to be manifesting how the jury comes out in relation to Black humanity. That is the crucial question here.
LEMON: OK. So, I understand what you are saying but how do you put that into practice? How do you put that into tangible things? You know, you said the sanctity of life, right?
WEST: Absolutely.
LEMON: You said the pillar of --
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: Well the first thing you got to do, you got to send these policemen to jail, you got to tell the police union and all the folks behind the defense that the day is gone in which they think that somehow they can get away by brutalizing Black people. It's got to be in practice, it's got to be in deed, it's got to be in how they are behaving and that's what happened after Emmett Till, right? Emmett Till was the peak of the iceberg, Rodney King, peak of the
iceberg, Breonna Taylor at the peak, our dear brother George Perry Floyd, he is the peak of the iceberg. You've got Black being -- Black folks being disrespected, devalued, violated every day in America.
It's going to be in our deeds, in our institutional arrangement that reflect our deeds. And this is why this could be a turning point. That's what I am praying. But on the other hand, I know I can't watch it. I can't watch it because, you know, I'm going to break, I'm on the edge, I'm on the cliff.
LEMON: Talk to me about that. Why can't you watch it? Why can't --
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: I can only take so much, man. I could only take so much. I've been a Black man in America for a long time and so I could only take so much. I got to be fortified. I got to keep focus on what I'm called to do. Fifty-three years ago, I didn't think I could take it when they killed brother Martin. Over 2,000 years ago they killed my sweet Jesus.
What kind of resources will we have as a people, not just Black, but all who identify with the suffering of our precious brother George? What kind of resources, spiritual, moral, intellectual political, will we have to continue the battle because when Black humanity is on trial, you got to get fortified in order to fructify?
By fructify I'm talking about deeds. I'm not talking about money flowing in all. Don't confuse the fruit with the foliage. By the fruit you shall know them not the foliage. It's not going to be superficial, it's going to be fundamental transformation of the institution, manifest and deed beginning with sending the police to jail to send a sign.
LEMON: Will that change though -- listen, I think it sends a very powerful message and we certainly need change when it comes to police departments. Right?
WEST: Absolutely.
LEMON: Actions of police officers. But when you -- it's so frustrating for me, mind-boggling really --
WEST: Yes, yes.
LEMON: -- when I hear people make excuses for -- not even excuses, people who see the humanity in their own. Well, you know, Bob came back for more, he was never the same. He was troubled. He got into drugs, he got into trouble, but we loved him and, you know, it's a shame that he came back and we didn't take care of him, right?
WEST: Right, right.
LEMON: But when someone of a different ethnicity or color, people don't see the humanity. They don't see -- they don't see him as human. Like, it's supposed to be the perfect victim. There are no perfect victims. There are no perfect people
WEST: That's right. That's right.
LEMON: So why can't people see -- why can't people see that and they can only see it in their own?
WEST: Well, I think the real problem is and reality is that that's oftentimes they don't even really see it in their own, you see. Faulkner told us in his novels that you can look (Inaudible) the chocolate side of town and demonize them and degrade them, they end up demonizing and degrading each other leaving life superficiality but not enough moral content and spiritual substance at all.
So, you end up not just broken and damage but you end up suffering for what those that ask you called hell, those who have not cultivated the capacity to love. That's part of the genius of Black people after being hated for 400 years, we still teach the world so much how to love.
And people can just go home and listen to some (Inaudible) called (Inaudible) supreme. Nina Simone, why the king of love is dead. She wrote that three days after Martin was shot. Dean Taylor his base is writing that song. And you see that love in that.
LEMON: Yes.
WEST: I'm not saying Black folks got them (Inaudible). But all we've got some love warriors. But we are such hated people. I was reading the poll by (Inaudible). We've been so hated in so many ways but we keep dishing out. His love (Inaudible). And what's at the center of your text? Same thing, love, love.
[22:39:59]
Love for your Yma (Ph), love for the Lei (Ph), for your sister, that's the best of the human spirit. And white brothers, brown brothers, yellow brothers, indigenous brothers and every corner of the globe can get in on this caravan of love in the lane of other (Inaudible) others but you are going to have to pay a cost.
LEMON: Your -- when I'm trying to say -- OK, if your loved one or someone you know can go to the doctor for a back problem, a foot problem, a neck problem, whatever kind of pain and then it's given an opioid and then becomes addicted. And you could understand that you need to get help for that person and they could still be human. Then why don't you have that same feeling about someone else? That's what I don't understand.
WEST: In that particular instance, the vicious legacy of white supremacy comes in. And when white supremacy comes in, it renders you cold hearted, mean-spirited, spiritually sick and morally decayed. That's what we see in the brother Derek.
You see Derek -- Derek is a white brother who is sick. He is mean- spirited, he is cold hearted, he is empty. He's and that -- and he is a symbol of the worst of America. White supremacy is the worst of America. It's a sick, mean-spirited, cold hearted, callous, indifferent way of being in the world.
There is no joy there, brother, not at all. All the money in the world, all the power in the world, still going to render you joyless.
LEMON: Yes.
WEST: We are going to turn on a little while green and say, hey, we know what joy is. Why? Because he knows how to love.
LEMON: Yes.
WEST: That's true, brother.
LEMON: Professor, thank you to see humanity and redemption in one and criminality and the worst in another. That says a lot about what we need to fix and who you are.
WEST: And everybody has got the potential to change.
LEMON: Yes.
WEST: Everybody has got the potential to change but it's hard to get a camel through the eye of a needle sometimes. You know that's true.
LEMON: Amen. Thank you. I'll talk to you soon. You be well.
WEST: I salute you, my brother.
LEMON: You too. So, they love screaming about cancel culture but what happens when Republicans are the ones calling cancel? That's next.
[22:45:00]
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LEMON (on camera): Republicans hammering businesses for taking a stand against GOP efforts to make it harder to vote accusing them of playing to cancel culture, but former President Trump is the one calling for a boycott of any corporation that speaks out against Georgia's new voter suppression law.
Trump is specifically targeting Major League Baseball, Coca-Cola, and Delta Airlines. And Texas Governor Greg Abbott appears to be listening that backing out of throwing the ceremonial first pitch of the Texas Rangers home opener tonight in response to the MLB's decision to move its all-star game out of Atlanta.
Let's discuss now, CNN political commentator Ana Navarro. Navarro, I've known you all these years I can't say your last name suddenly? Ana Navarro is here. Ana, thanks. Good evening to you.
The GOP is obsessed with calling everybody cancel culture but isn't that exactly what they were doing by calling for these boycotts?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The GOP is very good and it's something that's been done for decades and decades. And coming up with catch phrases that then take a life of their own in a connotation of their own. Be it identity politics, or virtue signaling, or cancel politics, or death panels, there are people in the GOP that dedicate themselves to polling focus groups and coming up with phrases like these.
But yes, it is the utmost of hypocrisy. Today I was thinking, I was, you know, I've been thinking in the midst of this Major League Baseball thing and you know the only time I think about baseball or any sports is when there's a boycott going on. It was, you know, I remember when the GOP was calling, some in the GOP were calling for a boycott of the NFL, right? Because they were kneeling.
And then I remember when they were calling for a boycott of the NBA because they were kneeling in solidarity. And then I remember when some started calling for a boycott for NASCAR because they banned the confederate flag. And so now it's baseball's turn. What? What can I tell you? Thank God they still got bingo in (Inaudible).
LEMON: OK, Ana. Senate Minority Mitch McConnell releasing a statement today on the corporate backlash to Georgia's restricted voting laws and it says in part, corporations will invite serious consequences if they become a vehicle for far-left mobs to hijack our country from outside the constitutional order. Businesses must not use economic blackmail to spread disinformation and push bad ideas as citizens reject at the ballot box.
Mobs, disinformation, what is he talking about?
NAVARRO: I've got no idea. He should come and visit Miami. Listen, Miami, I grew up in what is the capital of boycotts in America, OK? If you ever went and sang in Cuba, we boycotted you. If you played any sports in Cuba, we boycotted you.
I didn't -- I didn't even know boycotts were something the left also did until I was like 25 years old. This country has a very rich history of protesting through your pocketbook. The right has done it, the left has done it. It is our right as Americans, it has helped move civil rights. It has helped in issues like apartheid in South Africa. The fact that Americans boycotted going to South Africa held an apartheid.
[22:50:00]
And so, it is part of the freedom of expression and the privilege of being in a country like America that we can boycott and protest and speak to our pocketbooks. You can't do that in Cuba. You can't do that in Venezuela, right? Because you can't say I'm not going to -- they got to ration card. You can't say I'm not going to buy this one gallon of milk amount that they are giving me.
It is something that is very American and that both -- both parties regardless of ideology do to get things that are important to them. And look, corporations don't just exist in name only. They are not just a tax I.D. number. They are people, right? They are corporations fueled by customers, by people who use our products.
LEMON: Right.
NAVARRO: By people who are employed there, who work there. Corporations are, yes, businesses but they are businesses made up of people.
LEMON: Of people.
NAVARRO: And look, before I wrap, I got to say something. Congratulations to my New York Times bestselling author friend, Don Lemon. I'm proud of you, brother. I'm so proud of you.
LEMON: Thank you, Ana.
NAVARRO: I mean, I'm not going to able to bury your ego, but I'm proud of you.
LEMON: No, not at all. Because, you know, it's number one bestseller by the way. Thank you. Thank you, Ana. I'll see you soon.
NAVARRO: Love you. I'm proud of you.
LEMON: Love you, too. Ba-bye.
More than 40 percent of adults have gotten at least one vaccine dose including myself but only 8 percent of the people vaccinated are Black. Why you need to take this shot. I'm going to tell you next.
[22:55:00]
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LEMON (on camera): So, take this. I got my shot. I got my dose of the COVID vaccine at the Javits Center here in New York. And I'm telling you this because this is important for everyone to get it including Black Americans.
CNN analysis finds that just 8 percent of those already vaccinated in the U.S. are Black despite Black Americans making up 13 percent of the population. But there is good news here. A majority of Black Americans want the vaccine, 55 percent. There are other groups that are more vaccine hesitant. Almost half of GOP men say that they won't get the vaccine.
But for anybody watching tonight, OK, it does not matter your color or your political affiliation, it's time to get your shot. All 50 states now have expanded or have at least announced plans to expand COVID-19 eligibility to everyone 16 and up. You can find a vaccine appointment at vaccinefinder.org/search to get the shot. It's important for all of us.
We'll be right back.
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