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Don Lemon Tonight
Donald Trump Endorses Mo Brooks For A Senate Seat; GOP Trying To Forget The January 6th Riot; Floyd's Drug Issue Used By Chauvin's Defense; Sen. Joe Manchin Laid Out A Possible Roadblock To Joe Biden's Agenda; COVID-19 Cases In Children Rising. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 07, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: (on camera): Georgia Representative Park Cannon arrested last month after knocking on the governor's door during the bill signing for that restrictive voting law.
Well, let's bring in D. Lemon because we both have been covering this. Prosecutors confirmed today they won't charge Cannon whose lawyer told us that she faced eight years in prison. In response she tweeted the hash tag keep knocking. Good trouble, D. Lemon.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Yes, that is good trouble. And listen, we thought that it would happen but as you warned you're the attorney, you never know. And as we thought her attorney said the same thing you said and he's right.
This is down in Georgia and you saw how it happened. All the guys in there signing the picture -- signing the bill under a picture of a plantation and here's this Black woman trying to knock on the door, she's at work just to go in and be able to witness what her governor is doing. Outrageous, but I'm glad that they -- I'm glad that it won't happen.
CUOMO: And look, to people who say, boy, you know, you guys, you know you're overhyping this.
LEMON: No.
CUOMO: Really, there's a disinformation campaign afoot right now all- over social media being given a loudspeaker on hate TV that January 6th was no big deal. Man, was it overblown? They really weren't even armed.
LEMON: Gosh.
CUOMO: Most of them were just patriots who went there to protest.
LEMON: Well, I spoke to some folks who said that there were weapons recovered. And by the way, a lot of the people do you really know if they were? And they're saying armed. What they mean by armed is guns.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: That's what necessarily what arms mean.
CUOMO: Yes. Like you can't whoop somebody's ass without a gun.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: With a flag pole. Or with bear spray --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- or with pepper spray --
CUOMO: Fists.
LEMON: -- or with a bicycle spray --
CUOMO: A fire extinguisher.
LEMON: -- or with a fire extinguisher. Come on, people.
CUOMO: A 100 cops injured.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: What was it their feelings that were hurt?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And these were the guys who always wear their flag pins and they wave their flags. Well, they're not using on the beach over their head.
LEMON: Yes. I'll tell you what though.
CUOMO: Figuratively and literally.
LEMON: I'll tell you what, you have a lot of cop friends, I have a lot of cop friends. My cop friends are not happy about this.
CUOMO: No.
LEMON: And there were some of them who supported the former president --
CUOMO: Sure.
LEMON: -- and actually watched the state-run TV. Not anymore. Very disappointed. And I've got to be honest with you -- and a lot of -- and a lot of people I knew who were supportive of the former administration, very conservative, their whole world was turned upside down that day because everything that they thought they believed in had turned upside down. They were like, wait a minute, you mean state TV is lying to me? You mean the former president is --
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: You mean they don't support cops the way that they do police officers?
CUOMO: They do when it suits their agenda.
LEMON: Yes, but it was a real wakeup call for a lot of people. And I think that I really do believe that that put a dent in the former -- the former guy as a new guy puts it in his credibility with, I don't know how, I would say a substantial portion of his base, I really do. I don't know how long -- I don't know if it's long-lasting but surely did.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: But look, I mean, it was -- we've never seen anybody do anything worse --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: in terms of fomenting political discord in this country.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: We've never covered anything like that because nobody's ever done anything that even approached it --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- let alone incited it. And I have to say be careful because once again, the fringe right will win the messaging war. They will get more of their people to believe that January 6th didn't happen because the left doesn't talk about it.
LEMON: But we've got to call it out which is what I'm going to do. But I also have to call you what because what were you telling me during the commercial break?
CUOMO: Listen, I can't believe you want to introduce this to people's lives. I'm trying to help this guy.
LEMON: He's not --
CUOMO: Because I love him.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I know I have to do all that.
CUOMO: And he's messing with his tie.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: His tie is like all the way over here and he's got 19 people working on him like a NASCAR picture --
LEMON: Behind the scenes, here's the thing.
CUOMO: And I say -- LEMON: I'm trying to fix my cord.
CUOMO: -- get the dimple on your tie.
LEMON: It's pulling my tie -- now I took it off.
CUOMO: And you know Mr. Number one best-seller now is a new guy. And he doesn't have any time for me telling him about his tie.
LEMON: No.
CUOMO: He's like I'm not 90, you wear the same thing every night. Shut up. These are dimples.
LEMON: The cord was pulling my tie and you were trying to get me to do the dimple and you're like, you got to push in. It's not. What you do is when you're putting the tie on, you yank it, that causes a dimple. I don't want a dimple every night because I'm not an old man. I have a pocket square and that is enough.
And so, anyways. You're trying to tell me about fashion?
CUOMO: Here it comes.
LEMON: Come on, brother. Like an old lady in church.
CUOMO: He's got the papers now. He's got the papers now. Calm down, Don. I'm sorry.
LEMON: naughty.
CUOMO: Sorry for trying to help.
LEMON: I've got to get to the news. I can hear -- can't you hear that.
CUOMO: I love you, d. Lemon.
LEMON: Get to the news.
CUOMO: You and your whack tie.
LEMON: I love you too, brother. You and your same tie every night, got to get you a new one.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Listen, Chris is right. We've got a lot of things to talk about. This is an outrage. You should be mad about this. You should be outraged by this because it is pure gaslighting, the biggest of big lies actually being defended over on where else the Fox propaganda network.
[22:05:01]
Tucker Carlson night after night minimizing the insurrection at the seat of our government, even putting the word insurrection in quotes as if it didn't really happen. Watch this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS: They didn't have guns but a lot of them had extremely dangerous ideas. They talked about the Constitution and something called their rights. Some of them made openly seditious claims. They insisted, for example, that the last election was not entirely fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): OK. That's downplaying it. And he was at it again tonight. All in the service of lies upon lies, lies on top of lies. The big lie that Joe Biden did not win, the big lie that there was widespread voter fraud, there wasn't. But they're using that lie to pass new Jim Crow bills across this country.
And the new big lie that we should forget about the insurrection, that's what it is. That it's no big deal, just a bunch of people talking about the Constitution and their rights. It's just more riot denialism from the right. It's just more lies.
That as we're learning tonight at least one defendant is flipping against the Proud Boys, the first sign that people charged in the insurrection of cooperating against the Trump extremists.
Now if you want to know why Fox and the right have to pretend that the insurrection didn't happen, if you want to know why, well, of course because of the former guy. I like this one better, the inciter in chief, the twice impeached one-term president, insurrection starting president who never won the popular vote.
Yet they can't shake their devotion to him and their misguided belief that he holds the key to power. Case in point, today's endorsement of one of his allies who whipped up the crowd just before they marched on the capitol.
Trump endorsing Mo Brooks for Senate, praising in his courage in all caps and fight, also in all caps. Fight, huh, really? I want you to remember, OK, because again this is all about gaslighting, just flat out lying.
And people will start, Chris is right. People will start to believe like the insurrection never happened, this never happened, none of it. But I want you to remember this is Mo Brooks, what he said to that cheering crowd this is January 6th. Roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MO BROOKS (R-AL): Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.
(CROWD CHEERING)
BROOKS: Now our ancestors sacrificed their blood, their sweat, their tears, their fortunes and sometimes their lives to give us their descendants an America that is the greatest nation in world history. So, I have a question for you. Are you willing to do the same?
(CROWD CHEERING)
BROOKS: My answer is yes. Louder. Are you willing to do what it takes to fight for America?
(CROWD CHEERING)
BROOKS: Louder. Will you fight for America?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Well, there you go with the fire Pelosi -- Pelosi is now the House Speaker, by the way. So, so much for the fire Pelosi hat. That's the guy Trump thinks should be a senator, that guy. The guy who whipped up people, who went onto march on our capitol attacking police, hunting lawmakers, chanting hang Mike Pence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So that right there what you just saw that's what the propaganda news network -- the propaganda network is saying it never happened. The former House Speaker John Boehner lashing out at Trump in his new book in very Boehner-style language saying that the former president, quote, "incited that bloody insurrection for nothing more than selfish reasons," that he perpetuated by -- selfish reasons perpetuated by the, and I quote here, "bullshit he's been shoveling since he lost a fair election the previous November."
A Trump advisor firing back calling Boehner a swamp creature. No matter what lies the right tries to spin we all saw what happened on January 6th. There's no denying it no matter how much you try to deny it, no denying it. It was one of the darkest days in the history of this country. And no matter how many lies they tell; we all saw it happen with our own eyes.
Funny how in this country, right? People always want to change history, rewrite it, whitewash it. Why is that? Why is that? Fox propaganda? Perhaps that's a question you should be doing on your panels. Why is that?
[22:10:06]
A lot more on all this tonight, but I want to turn now to the big moment today in the trial of the police officer who kneeled on George Floyd's neck for nine and a half minutes. It was about what we heard on that infamous tape today. Not when George Floyd begged for his life, not when he called out for his mother, but about a few seconds when he said something about drugs. The defense wants you to believe that he said I ate too many drugs, and at first the lead investigator on the case agreed until he listened again. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE LAWYER: And did you attempt to understand and hear what various parties were saying at various times?
JAMES REYERSON, SPECIAL AGENT, USE OF FORCE DIVISON, MINNESOTA BUREAU OF CRIMINAL APPREHENSION: Yes.
NELSON: Do you -- did you ever hear Mr. Floyd say I ate too many drugs?
REYERSON: No.
NELSON: I'd like to publish exhibit 1007, and I'm going to ask you, sir, to listen to Mr. Floyd's voice. Did you hear that?
REYERSON: Yes, I did.
NELSON: Did it appear that Mr. Floyd said I ate too many drugs?
REYERSON: Yes, it did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): OK. But just a few minutes later the prosecutor played a longer clip and the officer's answer was very different.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW FRANK, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Prior to the short clip of Lane's body camera that you were shown as exhibit 1007, is there discussion about drug use by the officers in attempting to speak to Mr. Floyd?
REYERSON: Yes.
FRANK: And hearing that section of the audio did that help you to understand what Mr. Floyd might have been saying that you were asked about by counsel?
REYERSON: Yes.
FRANK: And your honor, then we would ask to play 127, exhibit 127 which is queued up to 20, 2030 through 20, 2001 where that phrase appears that Mr. Reyerson or agent Reyerson was asked about.
GEORGE FLOYD, POLICE BRUTALITY VICTIM: I can't breathe. Please, please, understand, please, I can't breathe.
UNKNOWN: You get up to the sidewalk, please. One side of the arm, please.
FLOYD: My face is feeling bad.
UNKNOWN: Just leave him. Just leave him.
FLOYD: Please, please. Please I can't breathe. UNKNOWN: I believe so. He kind of plight, now get out of the car.
FLOYD: Please. Please, I can't breathe.
FRANK: So, the record should reflect that we played through 20, 2110 with the quote that you were asked about appearing really at 20, 2101, correct?
REYERSON: Yes.
FRANK: And having heard it in context were you able to tell what Mr. Floyd was saying there?
REYERSON: Yes, I believe Mr. Floyd was saying I did not do no drugs.
FRANK: That's a little different what you were asked about when we saw a portion of the video, correct?
REYERSON: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Funny how things work, right? Context, nuance. I did not do no drugs. That's the opposite of I ate too many drugs. Now listen, it's honestly here, it's pretty hard to hear exactly what George Floyd was saying. After all this was a man begging for his life while Derek Chauvin had his knee on his neck.
But it's pretty clear what the defense wants you to think. He may want you to think George Floyd died because of drugs. They want you to, again, deny what you're seeing with your very own eyes, which is a whole -- that's the whole theme of this entire opening statement that I'm giving now, my take.
People don't want you to believe what you see with your own eyes. They -- that means that they think you're dumb or there's something wrong with you. You're not, right? You know what you see with your own eyes. You know what you saw on January 6th. You know what you saw in that video.
And if you really listen to all of that in context you get the gist of what someone is saying. Again, it's pretty hard. I'm not denying that. It's pretty hard. But they want you to ignore in this tape the nine and a half minutes of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyd's neck and instead focus on those few words.
[22:14:58]
And they also want you to doubt what you heard George Floyd saying over and over during those nine and a half minutes. This was clear, I can't breathe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON: In this particular case when Mr. Floyd was initially saying that he couldn't breathe he was actively resisting arrest. UNKNOWN: Initially when he was in the back seat of the vehicle, yes.
NELSON: Right. And in fact, he was using his legs to push back and to use his body weight to, against the officers, right?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
NELSON: And at one point, three Minneapolis police officers were attempting to get him into the back seat of the squad car from the passenger side of the car, correct?
UNKNOWN: Correct.
NELSON: And they were not able to do so.
UNKNOWN: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Just remember that was in the back of the car. On the pavement, handcuffed behind his back. So, they want you to doubt that George Floyd meant it when he said I can't breathe. They want you to think it was just his way of resisting arrest.
So, the big picture here. This is about the defense raising doubt, doubt about what killed George Floyd, doubt about what he said or didn't say about drugs. Doubt about George Floyd saying I can't breathe.
But think about it, smart people. None of that changes the fact that George Floyd is dead. Dead after a police officer kneeled on his neck for nine and a half excruciating minutes. Those nine and a half minutes, that's what matters here.
The video of the insurrection, the people who were injured, what you see on tape, that's what matters there. But in this case the defense is trying to convince jurors not to believe what they saw, what we all saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears for those nine and a half minutes.
You're smarter than that. For Minneapolis and for the capitol insurrection you did see it. Don't let them gaslight you. They want you to believe that what happened to George Floyd had nothing to do with the police officer kneeling on his neck while he was dying, but shouldn't the use of force have stopped when he was cuffed and on the ground?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Do you agree with the statement in your custody, in your care?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
UNKNOWN: What does that mean?
UNKNOWN: That means once you take someone into custody then you're responsible for their care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): Prosecution in the Derek Chauvin trial adding to the mounting testimony that Chauvin used excessive force against George Floyd. A use-of-force expert saying that Chauvin used deadly force by holding his knee on Floyd's neck for nine and a half minutes or 9 minutes and 29 seconds, but nine and a half minutes where no force should have been used.
So, joining me now CNN's senior legal analyst Laura Coates, and Cedric Alexander, the former president of the National Organization of Black Law Executives.
Good evening to both of you. Thank so much for joining us.
Laura, the defense today trying to argue that Floyd was resisting arrest when he said I can't breathe to officers putting him in the squad car. I want to play more of that and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON: It's fair to say that one of the things that an officer has to do in the assessment of the reasonableness of his use of force is take into consideration what the suspect is saying and how he's acting.
UNKNOWN: Yes. 100 percent.
NELSON: So, if somebody is saying, I can't breathe and they're passing out and they're not resisting that's one form of an analysis, right?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
NELSON: And in this particular case when Mr. Floyd was initially saying that he couldn't breathe he was actively resisting arrest.
UNKNOWN: Initially when she was in the back seat of the vehicle, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): OK, so, Laura, but once Floyd was on the ground what he said was consistent with his actions. He wasn't resisting, he became nonresponsive. Do you buy the defense's argument?
LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: What they're trying to prove we already know. I mean, the idea here that an officer is able to use force to restrain or subdue a resisting person is obvious. No one disputes that. The question here, Don, is whether you can continue to exert the same level of force you would uses for somebody who is resisting when they're no longer resisting, when they're no longer breathing, when they no longer posing any threat whatsoever. This case has never been about whether an officer can generally use
force. It's about whether an officer has used excessive force and gone beyond what's reasonable into the realm of criminal assault by maintaining the application of lethal force after the person has stopped moving, breathing and being conscious.
LEMON: You know what I should have asked you which is a better, do you think the jury bought it?
COATES: You know, I don't think the jury does buy what's being sold to them at this point in time. We have no way of really knowing it. Of course, the jury is comprised of human beings but they're also comprised of wild cards there.
But if we are all in the court of public opinion watching this, and we're having the same questions they're probably having there. Why are you bringing this up, why do you focus on what happened in the back of the squad car where Chauvin wasn't yet on the scene at one point?
What do you focus on that aspect unless you're talk -- unless -- instead of focusing on the part where George Floyd's actually prone on the ground and handcuffed because remember that's the lens by which this case should be judged.
And so, any reference that tries to lose focus and muddy the waters away from the actual conduct that the defendant, Derek Chauvin, not George Floyd is accused of. Jurors must be raising an eyebrow and wondering why are you mentioning that, defense?
LEMON: Yes. So, Cedric, even if Floyd was resisting arrest in the beginning shouldn't the use of force have ended as soon as he stopped resisting when he was cuffed and lying face down on the ground?
[22:25:07]
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, FORMER POLICE EXECUTIVE: Absolutely it should have. And there's no question about that. And as you heard Lieutenant Stiger the use-of-force expert state is that you use the amount of force necessary. And when that resistance stops of course you stop.
What we saw or we all observed rather, Mr. Floyd when he went to the ground, and they had him handcuffed. They had him in a prone position. They were on top of him. It just was not necessary any longer to treat him the way in which they did.
You know, it's very important to remember and we hear a lot about this, and it is such an important piece here, Don, is that once a person that you arrest is in your custody, you're solely responsible for them. And you're responsible for their care during the time that you have them under arrest. And I think what we saw on May 25th was something that certainly did not demonstrate taking responsibility for another human being.
LEMON: But the defense is trying to argue that Floyd still could have been a threat. Listen to this, Cedric.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON: A person who's in handcuffs can continue to be a threat, agreed?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
NELSON: They can kick you.
UNKNOWN: Correct.
NELSON: They could bite you.
UNKNOWN: Correct.
NELSON: They could thrash and get free and start running, right?
UNKNOWN: In certain instances, yes, right.
NELSON: And in certain instances, they can even get your weapon, right?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Cedric, we've all seen the video. He wasn't resisting when Chauvin was kneeling on his neck. Was Floyd a threat at that point?
ALEXANDER: No. And the defense is really making a real stretch here because certainly we know once we have someone subdued at that level usually, we have them under control. And even -- even if they continue to resist, we still apply what we were taught in the academy and in- service training. You use a level of force that's necessary.
The defense here is just stretching. They're trying to create some doubt. But I think that people when they watch that video, that jury and that's what really matters right now, what the jury sees and perceives in all of this. They're going to see right through this. It's -- there was no resistance here.
LEMON: Yes. Laura, I want to -- you saw the exchange that we talked about earlier about the I ate too many drugs or I don't do drugs. Does that get to the point what this case is all about, I mean, you know, taking things out of context, is the defense overplaying their hand? What did you make of that moment?
COATES: Well, first of all, you know, you don't want to lose your jury in terms of being able to engage them. You also don't want to lose your jury in terms of making self-inflicted wounds that makes you look like you tried to pull an okey-doke on people by giving slivers, noncontextualized portions that are later found to be, wait, now I've heard it again that actually is not what's being said.
And I'm sure the defense was able to hear the full breadth of that particular clip and was able to lead to make its own conclusion of that. So, in a way, the jury is watching this and begins to start to doubt the people who are trying to plant the seeds of reasonable doubt.
But remember, I have to focus people on this case because it's not about whether this indiscernible audio by George Floyd about whether he didn't use drugs or he ate drugs. The real issue here comes down to two questions. Number one, why did Derek Chauvin use an unreasonable amount of lethal, nonproportional unnecessary force after somebody was rendered neutralized?
And number two, even if Derek Chauvin believed that there was some alternative source of the physical distress that George Floyd was enduring, why didn't he render the care that's required during the custody? Imagine if he was in a jail cell and had gone into cardiac arrest. Do we want our jail guards to go, well I didn't cause that therefore let the person go --
LEMON: Let the person, right.
COATES: -- and see as they fit?
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: You wouldn't do that. So he's in custody in handcuff, it's really the same thing.
LEMON: Before -- before I let you go I have to -- I can't let you go without saying something about our friend, Laura, Midwin Charles who sadly passed away we found out overnight. Midwin was on this show, a frequent contributor on this show and on other networks.
She was a friend to the show, and she was often -- appeared with you, Laura, where she talked about legal issues. She was an attorney and our hearts go out to her family. And I'm not sure if you knew her Cedric, but we knew her and we loved her and I just want to -- you want to say a few words, Laura?
COATES: Well, I just -- you know, I respected her a great deal. And I'm just devastated that a 47-year-old has lost her life. We don't know all the details, but her family I'm sure is reeling as her friends and her loved ones are.
[22:30:06]
And it was her mind, it was her analysis, it was her pep, her joie de vivre and her wit that I'll remember. And I have to tell you it's such a sad day to have lost that bright light so soon anytime --
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: -- but especially now.
LEMON: Yes. Forty-seven years old, we're going to miss her. Cedric, Laura, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Rest in peace --
ALEXANDER: Thank you.
LEMON: Rest in peace our dear friend. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): Late tonight, Democratic Senator Joe Manchin putting up what could be a serious roadblock to President Biden's ambitious agenda and possibly handing a big victory to Republicans declaring in a Washington Post op-ed that he will not vote to eliminate or weaken the filibuster in the Senate.
[22:34:57]
So, let's discuss now. CNN's chief political analyst Gloria Borger is here, political commentator Charlie Dent as well, the former Republican congressman. Thank you very much for joining. Good to see you both of you.
Gloria Borger, I'm going to start with you because let's talk about what Joe Manchin is saying. He's saying that he's not going to vote to weaken the Senate filibuster in a Washington Post op-ed. And he says this. And I quote, "Senate Democrats must avoid the temptation to abandon our Republican colleagues on important national issues. Republicans, however, have a responsibility to stop saying no and participate in finding real compromise with Democrats."
So, Gloria, we've known his feelings on the filibuster but Joe Manchin seems to be the only person living in this kumbaya Senate world that he has describe. It's like a 1950's "Leave it to Beaver" world. We're not in that world anymore. That's -- maybe I'm wrong.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: We are not. No, you're right. We are not in that world. I think Joe Biden would join him in that perfect world from decades ago when perhaps it used to work that way and sometimes it did and sometimes it didn't. But that's not life right now.
I think with Joe Manchin stating yet again I'm not going to move, I'm not going to amend, I'm not going to change, I'm just going to say we're not going to do anything with the filibuster, that means for Joe Biden, it means he needs 10 Republicans for voting rights. It puts the minimum wage -- increase the minimum wage in danger, the DREAM Act in danger, sort of large legislation like universal background checks in danger.
So, this is not news -- good news for Joe Biden. And it puts Manchin right where he wants to be, which is at the center of everything. The most important person in the Senate --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But you said he needs 10 Republicans in -- Gloria, is that ever going to happen?
BORGER: He would need -- yes, I mean, well, we'll have to see, you know.
LEMON: I would hope but --
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: In a way, well, but in a way, there's one thing this does for Joe Biden that's not terrible, and that is progressives who want more of what Joe Biden is proposing, Biden can now say to them I can't. In order to get anything through I need Joe Manchin.
LEMON: Yes.
BORGER: So, in that sense it might work for him but in a larger sense it's a real problem.
LEMON: Listen, Charlie, for the country -- people know this. Voting rights, that -- it's important for our democracy. Does Joe Manchin really want to go down as the guy who held up the Voting Rights Act, who restricted voting for people in this country, poor people, people of color? Does he want to go down as that guy?
CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think, Don, I think it's a bit unfair to put this all on Joe Manchin. I happen to agree with him on the filibuster. I witnessed when Republicans were in control, listening to most, the most extreme voices in the Republican conference and the House at the time demanding that Mitch McConnell eliminate the filibuster.
This was always coming from the extreme voices because they wanted to jam very harsh partisan legislation that would not be sustainable or durable. And I think the Democrats know in their guts that this is not a good thing. The problem isn't the rules. The problem is the members who don't have the capacity for compromise.
BORGER: Right.
DENT: They don't see a political reward. They don't see a political reward for compromise. That's why they don't do it, with or without a filibuster. Same with the -- that's the harsh reality. Their political safety is tacking hard to the bases. That's why they do it.
LEMON: But Charlie, --
(CROSSTALK)
DENT: Shutting the filibuster --
LEMON: I don't disagree with you. I agree with everything you said except it's not about the filibuster because it is about the filibuster because you're never going to get Republicans to move. And the only way you're going to get the legislation done is if you maybe there's an exemption to filibuster.
Now I can understand don't want to get rid of it, I understand that. But something as important as voting rights, that is -- that's the only way you're going to get it because Republicans are not going to come over. What you're saying -- you saying -- hang on I promise you I'm going to let you finish.
You saying that, you know, there's no political reward, that's why you're never going to get any. So maybe on this one issue there has to be some sort of compromise when it comes to the filibuster. Maybe not get rid of but some sort of compromise. Go ahead. I promise I'll let you finish.
DENT: Don, I was just going to say. Look, I was in Congress in 2006 when George Bush was president, Republican House, Republican Senate. And you know, we passed a reauthorization of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. We did it in spite of the filibuster the act itself was passed and it overcame the filibuster because it had a consensus in the country to do something.
I think they can get some reforms on voting rights. I really do. I agree there are all kinds of problems with the Georgia law. Some of the problems are overstated but the motivation of the Republicans was bad, but they can certainly come to some agreements on this stuff. And certainly, they can do it on infrastructure. They could have done it on the most recent COVID bill. Hell, they did four or five bills before on a bipartisan basis so I think it's, I think it's doable.
LEMON: All right. But what year was that? I'm not being facetious.
BORGER: I want --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Two thousand six you said.
BORGER: Can I just say --
DENT: Two thousand sis.
LEMON: Yes. Gloria, I'm going to give you the last word. But go ahead, Gloria. Go ahead. Go on.
[22:40:04]
BORGER: That was a long time ago. I want to agree with Charlie on this. But I think that part of the problem is the way we elect members of Congress, and they're all afraid of being primaried on the right. They were all -- the Republicans are afraid of Donald Trump.
And if we had different kinds of primaries where it wasn't winner take all and it was a, a so-called jungle primary or something like that in the Senate, they wouldn't be that afraid of what was going to happen to them because then they'd have to face a runoff.
So, if we found different ways to elect people in primaries, they would not be so afraid --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But Gloria, by the time you do that --
BORGER: -- that it shatters or doing something --
LEMON: -- the voting, by the time you do that -- BORGER: Yes.
LEMON: -- this whole issue about the, you know, about the -- about voting rights will be over and --
BORGER: Yes.
LEMON: -- and done.
BORGER: Yes. I'm talking long-term.
LEMON: Yes.
BORGER: Yes, I am -- I am talking long-term if you want to look at the big picture. You have to look down the road. I know, you know, President Obama is talking about how you elect people in the House and you don't have gerrymandered districts. You know, you try and make the districts more like the country and you don't draw them politically in the House. So, it's a process. It's a very long process.
LEMON: Yes.
BORGER: But right now, it's not working.
LEMON: Gosh, I had so much to talk to you guys about, but anyways, thank you for putting up with me.
BORGER: I know.
LEMON: But I love these conversations with you, guys.
BORGER: Next time.
LEMON: Thank you both. I'll see you soon.
DENT: It's really good.
LEMON: Thank you so much.
DENT: Thank you, Don.
BORGER: Sure.
DENT: Ba-bye.
LEMON: New words about coronavirus spreading among children. We're going to tell you what's causing the increase and how you can keep your family safe. That's next.
[22:45:00]
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LEMON (on camera): Coronavirus cases rising in young people and children. The CDC says it's because of new more contagious variants and some after-school extracurriculars. Here's what Dr. Fauci told Anderson tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There's relatively more protection among older individuals as opposed to younger individuals, so what we're seeing now is what appears to be but it's actually the reality of a disproportionately more infections in younger individuals.
You combine that with what you just mentioned with Dr. Walensky said about clusters of cases in day care, as well as school sports, particularly team sports which people engage in close contact without masks. I think that is what is explaining these surges of cases in young individuals driven by the variant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, let's talk about this with Dr. Dimitri Christakis, the director of the Center for Child Health, Behavior and Development at Seattle, at Seattle Children's Hospital. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you joining us, doctor.
This is some really serious stuff here because these new cases are spiking among --
DIMITRI CHRISTAKIS, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR CHILD HEALTH, BEHAVIOR AND DEVELOPMENT, SEATTLE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: Pleasure to be here.
LEMON: -- young adults and children. That's according to one report by the American Academy of Pediatrics. There were over six -- excuse me -- 63,000 new cases of COVID-19 among kids last week alone. Is this due to variants? What's going on?
CHRISTAKIS: Well, you know, it's a little bit of a perfect storm, Don. What we have here is a situation where we have many variants, the emerging dominant one or the emerging dominant one in the United States is the B117, the so-called U.K. variant. That's rising, it's more contagious. Maybe 30 percent more contagious.
We also have a sort of false sense of security because case counts had been falling as we vaccinated older people. We have non-vaccinated young people which as Dr. Fauci said are still susceptible to the virus and we have pandemic fatigue. Right? We're all, you know, 14, 15 months into this sick and tired of not getting back to our lives.
We think we see the light at the end of the tunnel. We do see the light at the end of the tunnel and we're really eager to let our guard down. You know, if I may use a sports metaphor, a football metaphor, if you will, you know, we've been getting our butts kicked against this virus for three quarters of this game.
We're in the fourth quarter now. We're making a serious comeback. We will this game but we're at the two-minute warning and we can't spike the football yet. We have to stay focused on winning the game, and then we will.
LEMON: Whatever analogy you can make. If it helps people get it that they have to be safe, we will take it. Seriously.
So, listen, I want to talk about Pfizer announcing last week that their vaccine is 100 percent effective in kids ages 12 to 15. They plan to submit their data to the FDA for emergency approval and do that soon in the coming weeks. How far away are we from kids getting vaccinated? What's the time line?
CHRISTAKIS: Well, it's really a question. So, of course I haven't seen their data and there's a whole process that has to go through to get emergency use authorization. I have every reason to believe that in that age the vaccine probably will be safe and effective.
You know, one of the challenging things about pediatrics, which is what I practice, is that we draw these sort of artificial distinctions between what makes a child an adult and we historically have done it at 18, and said when you become 18, now you're an adult and adult data apply and not pediatric data.
Sixteen obviously is more like 18. Fourteen is more like 16. I think the vaccine probably will be safe in kids that age. I don't know about younger children because they're clearly a very different phenomenon. But it's not just about when the vaccine is declared safe. The bigger issue is going to be when it's available and when it's being widely distributed.
The truth is that I think that come fall young children in particular will not be vaccinated and will be -- there will be circulating COVID amongst them.
[22:50:05]
The good news, and it's very good news, is that adults and even children over the age of 16 for sure will have vaccine available, that it's likely highly even as far as we know against existing variants. So, if all of those people take advantage of the vaccine, take it, we will be protecting the most vulnerable segments of our population and diminishing spread.
The best thing we can do if we want to be MVP in this football game is get the vaccine as soon as we can. Get it for our children as soon as it's approved for them.
LEMON: Doctor, thank you. I appreciate you joining us.
CHRISTAKIS: My pleasure. Take care and stay safe, everybody.
LEMON: You too. You too. He is saying the quiet part out loud. One state's top election official is warning about the next election and take this, woke student voters.
[22:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): So, take this. The top election official in Mississippi saying the quiet part out loud about expressing -- expanding, excuse me, voting access. Republican Secretary of State Michael Watson explaining why he is against automatic voter registration. You have to listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WATSON (R-MS), SECRETARY OF STATE: There was an executive order that came out about two and a half weeks ago dealing with voter registration, basically employing all the federal agencies in universities and colleges to register as many folks as they can via this automatic registration.
But think about all these woke college university students now who will automatically be registered to vote, whether they wanted to or not. If they didn't know to opt out, they wouldn't be automatically registered to vote and then they receive this mail-in ballot that they didn't even probably know it was coming because they didn't know they were registered to vote.
You got uninformed citizen who may not be prepared and ready to vote automatically it's forced on them and they go make the choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): He actually said that. I mean, think about that. How much sense does that make? How much -- everyone should be, everyone who is of legal age should be able to vote. Whether they're a college student or not. You're talking about woke people, woke people? Have a right to vote.
Suddenly even racists in this country have a right to vote. Everyone has a right to vote. Think about what you're saying, sir. For so long voter fraud has been the boogeyman for restricting access to the polls. That has been debunked many, many times. We're starting to hear a new set of excuses now like wokeness. Watch out for those woke voters.
It might sound crazy but with hundreds of bills all across this country in the words to restrict your rights to vote, it is clear those who want to restrict that right will do or say just about anything.
President Biden is getting ready to take on guns now. He is selling his $2 trillion infrastructure plan. But can he get his full party on board?
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