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Don Lemon Tonight

Live Breaking News Of A New Protest After Police Shooting Of Daunte Wright; Minnesota Officer Shouted "Taser" But Fired A Gun Instead, Fatally Shooting A Man At A Traffic Stop; VA Officer Fired After Drawing Gun, Pepper-Spraying Army Officer. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 12, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): On the phone right now, Naisha Wright is the aunt of Daunte Wright. And she's asking people to say his name. Daunte Wright. Who was shot and killed by police yesterday who pulled him over for a routine traffic stop and now he is no longer with us. The aunt, Naisha Wright is on the road now traveling from Alabama, she told us, making her way to Brooklyn Center.

And you can see, Sara Sidner there getting ready. We are going to go to her in just a moment. But Naisha Wright is on the phone joining us now. Naisha, I forget, you told me you had been, I forget how long you'd been on the road.

You had to stop and pick up your mother and you've been on the road to be with your family. And you said the family is broken hearted. Not a broken family. And you're heart broken, but you're going on get there. How much more time? Do you know how much more longer you have to get there?

NAISHA WRIGHT, DAUNTE WRIGHT'S AUNT (ON THE PHONE): According to my GPS, we'll make it there 11:00 something in the morning.

LEMON: Yeah.

So we talked about the mother. We didn't really talk about the father. You did. Have you spoken to the dad? You said it is Arbury, right?

WRIGHT: Yes. I've spoken to my brother.

LEMON: And how is he doing?

WRIGHT: I can (inaudible) the pain. I've never heard or seen my brother cry. Do you know how that feels for me to hear my brother call out for his son? Never -- nobody should have to feel this pain, nobody. And my brother is so hurt. My brother is a good man. He's been there for his kids. Like I said, this ain't no broken home. It's not no broken home. He's been there.

LEMON: Well, Naisha, thank you. And again, we're so sorry and we want you, listen, I know you are going to try to drive straight through. But make sure you do it safely. And I know there's probably no rest for you but we want you to be safe. We thank you for joining us and be well. Your mom is with you. You

guys, please travel safely. And we n love to have you back on once you're in a place where you can talk to us again. Again, so sorry. Thank you for joining us.

WRIGHT: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

So we're covering the breaking news that's happening as you can see in Brooklyn Center of Minnesota. This is never easy. I'm Don Lemon. It's the top of the hour. It's never easy to cover these stories. There are always multiple sides of these stories and there's always a family in grief and in pain. Regardless of how you might feel about the situation, you have to remember these are human beings involved in this. And her pain is palpable. And the family's pain, you can imagine, palpable as well.

We'll get to the scenes of this unrest in just a moment. This is going to continue to play out. So, but I want to talk about the human side, the humanity, the human part of this. This is what you heard right now, this is what a family is dealing with.

Again, regardless of the circumstances. Whether you think, oh, you know, he shouldn't have run, whatever happened? The police officer again admitting that they made a mistake. That there was some mistake made. Obviously, there was a mistake made.

And whether that mistake was, it wasn't warranted. Listen, policing is a profession where I know no one is mistake-less. No one is perfect but it is a profession where you got to minimize the mistakes, because that's the difference between life and death. Police officers are the gate keepers between life and death.

And this is obviously a situation where training or lack of, lack thereof, came into play. Nervousness, concern about someone, or what have you. But again, these are tough situations. And I know everyone likes to jump on the band wagon and say why did this happen, why did that happen? Hey shouldn't be doing this. These are human beings who have family and loved ones and now their loved one is gone for a misdemeanor, allegedly a misdemeanor warrant and a violation from a traffic stop.

As you look at all these pictures. Here's one of the pictures of -- many of them are coming in from our affiliates around the country. We have reporters who are standing in front of the camera having covered these things a million times. It will flare up and it will go back down. It will flare up and it will go back down.

But again, I wanted to get the human part in there as we continue to cover this breaking news, the unrest that is happening. Shimon Prokupecz, is our man on the ground, in the middle of this protest in Brooklyn Center and he joins us now.

So, Shimon, I imagine that there is some flare-up where you're happening now. By the way, his signal is going in and out. Go ahead, take it away, Shimon.

[23:05:00]

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER (on camera): Yes. Don, you're absolutely right. You've covered these situations many, many times. And the point you make is absolutely right. That things will quiet down and there will be flare-ups and the flare-ups are coming at the moment when police are starts to move through.

We are now probably three blocks away, if not more, from the police station. This is how far back now the police, the state troopers here, and the police officers have been moving the protesters back. There are far more police officers out here now than there are protesters. You can hear some of them. They're loud. But there aren't many.

LEMON: The signal for Shimon Prokupecz there on the ground breaking up. It's going in and out, as you know, this is a breaking news situation, this thing happen. We'll continue on. We'll try to get Shimon back. He's in the middle of that unrest. Again there, working under situations now of this COVID and not all of the equipment that we usually have out. And sometimes they're in places that you can't get a great signal. So, as soon as we get Shimon back there with us again.

Breaking news. I'm sure you guys understand how that works. Especially now in this time of Zooming and people Skyping in. Signals go in and out. So, I'm sure it's not a big deal. You understand.

Sara Sidner is there on the ground with the protest happening as well. Sara, as you know, we've been dealing with this, sadly, these situations for well over, well, for a year now, I should say. Almost a year now. This unrest. And here we are at the scene of another unrest, protests happening in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. What's happening behind you? What's going on, Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm going to take you as close as I can to the police line. There are hundreds of police officers now out here. The protesters are much fewer, as you heard Shimon say at this point than police where we are. But this is the line. And it goes all the way around and slowly, slowly again, they push people back. They have announced several times that this is an unlawful assembly, according to police and that you will be arrested if they catch you.

We have watched them detained at least two people, one at the gas station, one behind the other gas station. Just down this road is the police precinct, where there were hundreds of protesters earlier today. I'm going to bring you across the street real quick. You can see the equipment that the police have from very large vehicles here that look militaristic. That is a state trooper's vehicle. That is the sheriff's vehicle, there are police, sheriffs, state troopers out here now.

And we do know that the curfew was a few hours ago. That's when it started, at 7:00 p.m. Local Time. And so they are telling people that look, the curfew is in place and there is an unlawful assembly. But there are a lot of people here that just don't give a darn to put it mildly, who are saying that they are going to be out here, that this is their community and that they are not going. They are not going anywhere.

You can hear a lot of honking horns, you can hear people screaming at the officers and you can also hear calm as well because now the protesters have been pushed so far back into the neighborhood and down the street. And all you are seeing is just blocks of police officers from different agencies. That looks way down there like maybe the park police, if I'm not mistaken, but can't quite see. No. It's a state trooper.

So you are seeing different uniforms, because you're seeing all the different agencies that are here and obviously a huge SWAT machine, if you will. There are two officers inside there. There are officers surrounding it. And slowly, slowly they are pushing people away from the precinct, away from the apartment complexes that people were standing in between and trying to move everybody out. That's the situation here right now in Brooklyn Center.

This is about nine or 10 or so miles from Minneapolis. A lot of folks here coming in from Minneapolis. A lot of folks here that I've talked to were at the protest when George Floyd was breathing his last breaths and died in front of Cup Foods there, at what is now being called George Floyd square.

So, a lot of things converging. It has been feeling like a bottleneck of frustration and worry in the city. And that is partly because of the trial that is happening right now. The trial of the former officer accused of killing George Floyd, Derek Chauvin. People had been watching that and seeing the emotion there and hearing the prosecution's case and becoming more and more and more agitated, wondering how this is going to end.

We now know that on Tuesday we are expecting the defense to begin their case. And if you think the tensions are high now, they are probably get higher. And the defense puts on its witnesses and talks about George Floyd in ways that people will not like, will be frustrated with. So, I am worried about the tension here. The neighbors are worried about the tensions here. The residents are worried about the tension here.

[23:10:00]

But they're also looking at these folks that are out here and they understand that they are filled with grief, they are filled with pain, they are filled with frustration because another young black male has been killed by a police officer who has said on that video tape that we've all watched, the body cam video that she was screaming taser but ended up pulling her gun and shooting Daunte Wright, Don.

LEMON: Alright. Sara Sidner on the scene. Sara, don't go far. We are going to need you throughout our time here on the air live. We'll get to Sara, in just a moment -- back to Sara.

I want to bring in now CNN senior legal analyst Laura Coates, the former federal prosecutor and legal analyst, Joey Jackson, a criminal defense Attorney. Thank you both. Sad to say, Laura, Joe, you know, here we go again. How many times have we covered this together, right?

Laura, I want to bring you in first. You just heard Daunte Wright's aunt. The pain and rage she is feeling right now. And that's real. That's humanity. And I let her speak because I just felt in that moment she needed people to hear what she had to say. It's something that so many families, especially black families, have had to deal with, Laura.

LAURA COATES, CNN INTERNATIONAL LEGAL ANALYST (on camera): It is so true. And Don, I was so glad to hear her, not for the reasons obviously that we're all here today but because -- just think of what she covered. The idea of knowing that they were going to vilify her nephew and the attempts about what he should have done or should not have done, the attempts to try to disparage his family. And if he comes from a broken home, the ideas about an air freshener, that driving while black, all of these things and the loss of life.

All these things that really are the culmination of what we've seen in time and time again and why cases like this evoke the visceral reaction. Because they are so illustrative of what black and brown people across this country have been enduring. Not just facing but having to endure for so many in respect.

And this is just in Hennepin County, the same place where the Derek Chauvin trial is actually happening. You know, this was just -- it was heart breaking to hear her, to think that she is right now with her mother, Daunte Wright's grandmother, driving, trying to make it there to be supportive. And I just can only imagine as a mother to even hear that press conference today. To hear words like accident and mistake and know that my child would not be afforded the opportunity to make any ever again.

LEMON: Joey, let's talk more about that mistake, accident, right. Because Daunte aunt, Naisha Wright, she couldn't understand how a mistake quote, unquote, like this could be made. Even if it is a mistake, is this negligence? What charges could she face?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (on camera): There's no question about it, Don. Good to be with you and Laura as well. You know, the fact that we continue to have this conversations, the fact that it hits home in so many of our communities, the fact that I have a son not much older than him. The fact that once again, here we are, speaking about issues as it relates to people who are, you know, don't need to be dying.

And so yeah, of course, there could be charges there relating to negligence. You have a duty. You have an obligation, you have a responsibility to act reasonably. And if you're on the force, forgetting about the amount of years this is a veteran officer. Even if you're not, you undergo annual training. You undergo a review. You should know the difference clearly between a taser and a gun. You should question your judgment as to whether you have to pull and it what type of force you have to use.

And so the fact that we are even talking about criminal charges. Listen, Don, I heard your interview. And you know, God bless you, letting her speak and vent and go on. She's not concerned or caring about the charges. She want her nephew, right? That's what she wants.

And so what do we have to do to get there? To be in a society, and to be in an environment where people feel safe? You know, this comes in the face of what we're dealing with now with George Floyd. It comes in the face of another veteran, right? A veteran who was pulled over. We know that story into a well-lit area. And he was -- why does he have to pull into a well-lit gas station?

And I mean, I could go on. But the fact is that it is frustrating, it is heart breaking. And for things that don't need to happen that affect families, as you mentioned, it just hits at the core of us all. And that's why you see the burgeoning of protests and everything else that Sara and, you know, I can't. It's a tough scenario.

LEMON: Joey, and Laura, thank you so much. But I want you guys to stand by, because we have to get a break in. It's going to be a short break and we'll continue on with our breaking news coverage. Again, we have our experts here, our folks who are on the ground. We have the story covered for you.

You can see there's anger in the streets of Brooklyn Center Minnesota tonight. Protesters still out hours after curfew, furious over the death of Daunte Wright, shot to death by a police officer during a traffic stop. Short break, breaking news on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

LEMON: So we're back now with our breaking news as you look at live pictures now from Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. Where there are still some protesters out hours after the curfew there. There's a curfew, 7:00 p.m. Central Time. Police as you can see, lining up in the streets. They are facing anger over the death of 20-year-old Daunte Wright, shot by a police officer during a routine traffic stop that was on Sunday, yesterday.

I want to bring in now Philip Atiba Goff the president and co-founder of the Center for Policing Equity and also CNN political commentator, Bakari Sellers. Gentlemen, I'm so happy that you could join us on this evening. It's tough, all of this.

And you know, I hate to say here we go again but here we go again. Phillip, I want to bring you in. You know, it's like the nightmare scenario. Another young black man killed during an encounter with police. In the case of Daunte Wright, the police say that it appears to be a mistake. The officer intended to use a taser. Give me your view on this please, sir.

[23:20:02]

PHILLIP ATIBA GOFF, CENTER FOR POLICING EQUITY CO-FOUNDER AND CEO (on camera): Yes, so, I have seen the video. The officer appears to say, I'm going to tase you. I'm going to tase you. And you can hear the distinct, taser, taser, taser which is how officers are trained to let the other officers know that taser is about to be deployed. And the entire time because of the positioning of the body worn

camera, you can absolutely see that it is a pistol, it's a handgun. You know, fortunately for us who have seen this too often, you see, she shoots and she kills this young man.

I've been seeing people say, well, it must be made up. It must be fake. I've been hearing people say that you can't tell the difference, then you should not be on the force. I think what I'm really hearing behind all of that, what I feel behind all of that is, please don't tell me that this is an accident and oops, I killed this man.

Please don't tell me that there isn't some kind of accountability that we can have for this, that this isn't a part of a pattern of injustice that is just simply unacceptable. So, whatever the specific facts are, however difficult it might be for any officers who are present, please don't say an officer made an oopsie and it resulted in a death. Because that's a lot of how it feeling for folks and you can see people pouring into the streets in Brooklyn Center.

Our lives are worth more than that, different than that. And you can't just make an -- there's no such thing as an innocent mistake and then we end up dead. The states can't do that and the folks that we arm with the awesome power of deciding the outcomes of life and liberty, locking people up, or taking away a life, they've got to do better. You can't just say, accidents, I guess we hope for better next time.

LEMON: Bakari, Phillip is basically, he's saying similar to what I said after interviewing the aunt just moments ago. When you're a police officer, you can decide between life and death for people. It's hard to make a mistake like that. It's not like a clerical error, right? And listen, I know that you wanted to comment.

I wanted to ask you something completely different. But I know, because you texted me, right, during that interview, you wanted to comment on the aunt and what the aunt said, about other people, you know, being -- shooting up a bunch of people, killing people and then still walking away with their own lives. And yet a routine traffic stop, someone is dead. Go on, please, sorry sir.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES (on camera): It's like they take your loved one from you twice. You see your loved one die on camera, on TV, around the world, and then they don't even allow him to rest in peace. They sully his name. They say oh he shouldn't have run or he had a warrant for marijuana.

I mean, Don, you know this. I'm involved in two marijuana businesses in the country. So to hear, you know, a young man have a marijuana ticket and get pulled over and have a warrant for that and lose his life is just the height of our country's hypocrisy with our drug laws and the way they impact some and not others.

You know, you talk about this being an accident. No. An accident is when they misspelled Bakari at Starbucks. It is not an accident when you murder somebody or when you shoot somebody, saying that you mistakenly thought it was a taser. To Phillip's point, this lady had been on the force for 20 years. She was president of the police association. I mean, you just can't make these mistakes. Quote unquote, mistakes, when a life is on the line.

And this aunt, you know, picking up her mother, you know, driving hours upon hours late at night, just to be with her family. We see these things all the time. But our prayers are always that we dare not be a hashtag. I mean, that's what a part of being black in this country is. You know, there are black folk you walk up to right now. They will be like, you know, I just don't want to be a hashtag. And that has a great deal of truth to it.

And so now people want to talk about the protesting and people want to talk about the rioting in the streets. And you know, when people ask me about, what about the rioting? I'm like, well, I'm just going to tell them it is an accident because you hear how ludicrous that sounds. So we just, I'm at a loss, because I don't know how we fix this problem.

Sara Sidner did a better job de-escalating an hour ago on your TV than police who are trained to do this do it day in and day out. And so we have to do a better job and I'm not sure how we reimagine what policing should be in this country. But I think that Phillip, myself, you are tired of black folk becoming hashtags.

LEMON: Yes. Well, the idea of trying to figure out what to do with policing and training. You know, Bakari, I've write about that.

[23:25:00]

It is sad that everything that I sort of wrote about recently is now playing out on our television screens. We've got to do something about policing. We have to do something about policing. And it is not that, you know, I hate that we have to caveat that and say not all police officers -- we know that.

But as we have been saying, there are certain jobs that you just can't be bad at. You know, a pilot is one. A police officer is another. And a surgeon is one as well. Like you've got to, you've got to be held to a higher standard when you have those professions.

Gentlemen, I have so much going on. I want to talk to you for a longer period of time but unfortunately I can't because I have so much to get to. We have to get to the unrest. Phillip, I want to have you back. I love hearing what you have to say. I appreciate your perspective. And Bakari, as always, you know, you know how I feel.

SELLERS: I love you, brother.

LEMON: Yes, you as well. I love you too. Thank you so much for joining. I want to talk to you, Bakari, soon. Can we put Bakari back up and Phillip? Bakari, I want to talk to you soon about the calculations. And Phillip as well. About the calculations, how terrifying it is for a black man to see flashing lights behind him.

People don't understand. I mean, when I say I'll like, oh, no. And here I am, the guy on the news. It is terrifying. And you start calling people. And you know, hey, I'm getting pulled over by the police. Just so you know. This is where I am.

And look. And I know some people don't understand it because they don't have to live it. But it is something that is real for us. Maybe it's not real for you. But it is real for us. I've got to run but thank you. We are going to talk about that. I'm going to make sure that I invite you guys back and we talk about that.

So listen. Police lining up on the streets, I don't know if we have live pictures now, Brooklyn Center, Minnesota tonight. New protests over the deadly police shooting of 20-year-old Daunte Wright. All of this is happening. We have this playing out in Virginia. This Virginia police officer is fired, fired after pepper spraying and drawing his gun on a black and Latino army officer during a traffic stop. The army officer's attorney joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): We're back now live with our breaking news. You can see the pictures there on your screen. Police flooding the streets of Brooklyn Center, Minnesota tonight after protests over the death of 20-year-old Daunte Wright shot by a police officer, who shot a taser then fired a handgun instead.

And in Virginia, a story we need to tell you about, a police officer fired. He is one of two officers accused of excessive force at a traffic stop of army second lieutenant Caron Nazario. Officer Joe Gutierrez now out of a job after body cam video of the incident came out showing the officers aiming their guns at the lieutenant, pepper- spraying him and pushing him to the ground. Nazario also recorded the December incident on his phone.

Now, we're going to show you some of that now, OK? And I've got to warn you, the video is graphic, difficult to watch. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

CARON NAZARIO, SECOND LIEUTENANT, U.S. ARMY: I'm serving this country and this is how I'm treated?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Guess what, I'm a veteran, too! I'm (INAUDIBLE)! Get out of the car!

NAZARIO: What's going on?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out of the car now!

NAZARIO: What's going on?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): What's going on? You (INAUDIBLE) sign.

NAZARIO: I'm sorry. What?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out of the car now!

NAZARIO: What's going on?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out of the car now! Get out of the car!

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Sir, just get out of the car! Work with us and we'll talk to you. Get out of the car!

UNKNOWN (voice-over): You received an order. Obey it!

NAZARIO: I'm -- I'm honestly afraid to get out. Can I --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah, you should be. Get out!

NAZARIO: What's going on?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out!

NAZARIO: What did I do?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out of the car!

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out now!

NAZARIO: I have not committed any crimes.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): You (INAUDIBLE) violence. You're not cooperating at this point right now. You're under arrest.

NAZARIO: What traffic --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): You're being detained. You're being detained for --

NAZARIO: For a traffic violation? I do not have to get out of the vehicle. You haven't even told me why I'm being stopped. Get your hands --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out of the car. Get out of the car.

NAZARIO: Get your hands off me, please. Get your hands off me. Get your hands off me. Get your hands off me. I didn't do anything. Don't do that. Don't do that.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Sir --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out of the car now!

NAZARIO: Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do -- I'm trying to talk to you.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out.

NAZARIO: I'm trying to talk to you. Relax. Can you please relax? Can you please relax?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out! Get out of the car right now!

NAZARIO: This is not how you treat a -- I'm actively serving this country and this is how you're going to treat me? I didn't do anything. Whoa, hold on. What's going -- hold on. Watch it.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Get out of the car! Get out of the car now! Get out of the car now!

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Sir, just get out of the car!

NAZARIO: I'm trying to breathe.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON (on camera): OK. So, missing a license plate. The officer said they thought he was missing a license plate. They say Nazario didn't comply with the orders, with their orders, and struck one of them when they tried to open the door. Nazario says that's not true. If you look at the video, the video shows -- doesn't show that.

CNN has reached out to both officers but we haven't heard back from either of the representatives.

Now, I'm going to bring in Jonathan Arthur. He is the attorney representing Lieutenant Nazario. Thank you so much for joining us, Mr. Arthur. I really appreciate it.

So, let's talk about this. That video is clearly disturbing. You hear an officer tell your client that he is -- quote -- "fixing to ride the lightning" and that he should be afraid of getting out of the car.

[23:35:00]

LEMON: How does the lieutenant -- I don't know what ride the lightning means. How is he doing right now? And what was going through his mind then?

JONATHAN ARTHUR, ATTORNEY FOR CARON NAZARIO: So he is a little -- still shaken up right now. You do everything right. You know, you slow down. You submit to the authority of law enforcement. You do the right thing. You wait until you're in a well-lit place to pull over because you're on a dark road. You don't want anybody to get hurt.

And then the officers turned around and repay your courtesy with this. Accuse you of not complying. Tell you you're going to ride the lightning, which is an expression for execution by electrocution. It is horrific.

And so, you know that will shake you to your foundation. So he's a bit shaken up, obviously. You know, he's done what the officers told him. Told him they would destroy his military career for if he tried. So also, he's a little bit concerned about retaliation.

LEMON (on camera): Yeah. Listen, I got to be honest with you. Before, having been pulled over, you know, traffic, speeding, whatever it is, I don't pull over on the side of a highway because I know that it is dangerous, and I also will go to an exit where it is lighted, where people -- full transparency. I've done that before.

So, that is not unusual, especially for a man of color in this country to want to pull to a place where there are people and it is well lighted so that people can see you. That is a true statement.

So, let's talk. I want to show some of the body cam video that happened after the lieutenant got out of the car and then we'll talk about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I get it, OK? The climate we're in. What the media is spewing with the race relations between minorities and law enforcement -- I get it, OK? So like I told you -- as far as you not stopping because you weren't comfortable and you wanted a well-lit spot. Lieutenant, that happens all the time. It happens to me a lot. I'll say 80 percent of time -- not always -- 80 percent of the time it's a minority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): OK. So a study in the American Journal of Health for 2016 show that Black men are nearly three times as likely than white men to get killed by police. Mr. Nazario is both Black and Latino. Did he -- he said that he was afraid of the officers because, you know, they pulled him over, guns drawn, get out of the car, you're going to ride the white lightning, then they pepper-sprayed him. I mean, yeah.

ARTHUR: He was terrified he was going to get shot. Can you blame him?

LEMON: Go on. I know that is rhetorical but --

ARTHUR: I mean, I don't know what else really to say. Once again, you're facing Joe Gutierrez already threatened to kill you. I think he was -- he displayed admirable calm, which is what I would expect from a United States army officer, to be able to remain that calm, knowing that one wrong move and you're going to die.

It was made worse by the fact that we had one officer telling him to keep his hands out of the window while the other officer telling him that, you know, he needed to open the door and get out.

My client had to figure out which of those inconsistent commands to comply with. He was keeping his hands in the air which is good. He was terrified that if he was going to move his hands below where Officer Gutierrez could have seen him, to undo that seatbelt, they would have murdered him. And if they would have murdered him, then what would have happened is the investigation would have revealed that he had a completely legal pistol in that vehicle and that's all we would have heard.

LEMON: Yeah.

ARTHUR: Was that the police got a man with a pistol, not what actually occurred. What we're looking at.

LEMON: The sergeant major of the army is commenting on the video of Lieutenant Nazario. Here is what he says and I quote it. "He represented himself and our Army well through his calm, professional response to the situation -- I am very proud of him." So he is not commenting on the litigation. But does your client feel the army has his back in this?

ARTHUR: So, from what I understand, his command has been very supportive throughout this entire ordeal. He informed his command almost immediately after this incident occurred because it was the right thing to do and in the event that the officers decided to pull the trigger, if you will, on the retaliation threats. And so from what I understand, the army has had his back since he told them.

LEMON: Listen, I know it is not the right time now because he doesn't want to discuss, but I think he can be very informative about the situation that is going on in the country with police and with men of color.

[23:40:00]

LEMON: So whenever he is ready to speak, we would love to have him. But I think you should keep that in mind because I think --

ARTHUR: I'll pass that along.

LEMON: -- police and citizens have a lot to learn from him. Thank you, sir. Please pass our regards along to him as well. We appreciate you being here.

ARTHUR: I will.

LEMON: Thank you.

ARTHUR: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: The police chief in Brooklyn Center saying the officer who shot and killed Daunte Wright meant to use her taser. But how do we stop these kinds of things from happening? That's next.

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[23:45:00]

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LEMON (on camera): Multiple violent encounters with police in the headlines tonight. Twenty-year-old Daunte Wright was shot and killed just 10 miles from the courtroom where Derek Chauvin is on trial. The town's police chief saying it was a mistake. The officer who shot him shouted taser but used her gun instead. We are going to show you what happened. I need to warn you, it is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I'll tase you! I'll tase you! Taser! Taser! Taser! Oh (bleep). I just shot him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): The lawsuit in Virginia alleging police used excessive force against an army lieutenant, pepper-spraying him, pushing him to the ground after pulling him over in a traffic stop.

So joining me now to discuss is former Maryland State police officer Neill Franklin. Neill, thank you for joining this evening. Whether you call this an accident or negligence, speaking about what happened in Minnesota or what it is --

Mm-hmm.

LEMON: -- Daunte Wright is dead as a result. How does a trained officer mix up a taser with a gun?

NEILL FRANKLIN, FORMER MARYLAND STATE POLICE OFFICER: I don't know. Don, to me, it's not an accident. We have extensive training on this. I don't know what the exact details of her training are. That is going to be looked into. They're going to examine that.

They're going to do research, find out when she was first trained, how frequently she's been retrained. They're going to look at all of that as well as the training records of other personnel, too, to see if they have a looming problem with this.

But I don't get it. Most agencies, they carry that taser on the opposite side of their body, opposite from their firearm, the weak side, to ensure that there is no mix up. There's also a significant weight difference and feel between the taser and the loaded firearm. And you can see in the video that she had it out for quite a while. So, I don't understand how that happened. But they have a lot of retraining to do.

Don, I just want to just mention something real quick. I've been listening to you and your other guests just talk about these many things that continue to happen again with the killing of Black men here in this country. We know what the problems are. We know the over- looming race issue in this country. It is the foundation to a lot of this.

We know that the use of force is way out of control and we've been working at this for decades, literally decades. And we know what we need is a new policing paradigm because what we have isn't working. But immediately, what we need is a national use of force standard.

We need to look at Graham versus Connor, which is the case well behind police use of force. And we need to change the standard to a reasonable objective view, not one that is subjective as it is now. And there are many more things that we can do immediately. We have to get in front of this with the solutions and stop so that you and I are not talking about this, you know, a year from now.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. Listen, we've been talking about a lot of this. A similar thing happened. Remember Oscar Grant? He was killed in Oakland in 2009. An officer said that they meant to pull a taser. I've spoken to -- there is a lot to discuss here. I've spoken about driving while Black, about how terrifying it is being pulled over as a Black man. And several Black women e-mailed me saying, it's terrifying for us as well.

But listen. Police face significant dangers in their line of work. In Georgia today, three officers were shot, injured when a traffic stop turned into a wild case. A suspect fired a rifle into a trooper's patrol car. Can you speak to this from the point of view of policing, you know, police just trying to do their jobs and stay safe themselves?

FRANKLIN: And I can. I can speak to that. There is an inherent danger that we have in the back of our minds all the time. I mean, when we sign up for this, we know that, Don, but we still sign up for it. We volunteer to do this. We're not forced to do this.

We're aware of the danger but we elect to do it. And we have chosen to put our lives on the back burner and put our citizens ahead of us. That's how it is supposed to be. But unfortunately, that's not where it is. You know, you started mentioning the other names and I'm thinking of Philando Castile, right?

[23:50:00]

FRANKLIN: We have the fear. We have to learn to deal with the fear. We have to have courage --

LEMON: Right.

FRANKLIN: -- to restrain ourselves from using deadly force when it is not warranted. I'm thinking of Philando Castile and the fear that was in that police officer's mind and body at the time he shot Mr. Castile. And we see this time and time again where officers aren't able to -- to control their fear.

LEMON: And sadly --

FRANKLIN: So that deals with hiring, their training we are giving and not giving.

LEMON: And Neill --

FRANKLIN: -- the accountability. There is a lot to it, Don.

LEMON: Yeah. And we will be talking about this sadly again and obviously be talking about this situation as the Chauvin trial as well is happening in Minnesota in the days to come.

Thank you, Neill. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.

FRANKLIN: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Arrests in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota tonight after protests over the police killing of Daunte Wright. We'll be right back.

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[23:55:00]

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LEMON: Arrests tonight in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. Police lobbing tear gas after protestors took to the streets hours after curfew, angry over the fatal police shooting of Daunte Wright, the 20-year-old who was shot by a police officer during a traffic stop.

The officer shot a taser, taser, but then fired a gun instead. We are going to be following this story for you in the coming days. Our coverage is going to continue here on CNN. Make sure you stay tuned. We will continue with this breaking news coverage of all the unrest and also the trial of Derek Chauvin as well. All of this is happening in Minnesota.

Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

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