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Don Lemon Tonight

Third Night Of Protests Over Police Killing Of Daunte Wright; Police Officer Who Fired Deadly Shot And Police Chief Of Brooklyn Center Resign Today; Interview With Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC). Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 13, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): They're demanding justice for Daunte Wright fatally shot by police during a traffic stop. That was on Sunday night. The mayor saying that the police officer who fired the deadly shot and the police chief of Brooklyn Center submitting letters of resignation earlier today.

Not far away in Minneapolis in a courtroom there, the defense in the Derek Chauvin murder trial presents its first witnesses, including a use-of-force expert testifying that Chauvin was justified in kneeling on George Floyd's neck for nearly 10 minutes.

We are going to get right to the scene now in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. Miguel Marquez is there. Miguel, is the crowd still out? Police still advancing? What are you seeing?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The crowd is still out. But take a look at this picture right now, Don. This gives you a sense of what conditions are like out here. It has been snowing off and on all day, sometimes very, very heavy, very sort of driving snow. It is still snowing. It is cold.

A lot of people aren't dressed properly, and you can see that line of police, sort of getting themselves ready for another move towards protesters. You can see a couple of protesters who are standing in front of them. And this is sort of what it's become. There's a few protesters down to a few dozen right now in a parking lot just north of the police station.

They are chanting. There are some cars in the streets. Police are concerned about the yards along the way. They've moved to the big, heavy trucks. John, I don't know if you can go up now and show that truck --

LEMON: It appears we lost Miguel Marquez. The signal is -- Miguel is reporting live from the scene in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. I would imagine just a cable or a wire came loose with his microphone. That happens when you're out in breaking news in a situation like this.

But just a minute and a half ago there was a curfew that went into effect there. Police have been saying all night that if they did not disperse, that they would be charged with unlawful assembly and also with impeding a legal process. And that would be two crimes.

So again, police are out on the scene now, the protesters -- some of them are staying put. And there's a curfew in effect now. Omar Jimenez is also out among the crowd in this situation. He joins us now live. What are you seeing, Omar?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Don, so, right now the state patrol is giving out those instructions, telling people once again to disperse and leave the area. Of course, (inaudible) minutes into that court (inaudible) at (inaudible) 10:00 p.m. Central Time here in the Brooklyn Center area.

But you still see people out. They're still out just feet from that police line that had pushed people really a block away from the Brooklyn Center police department. And people are standing still, almost daring the officers to come toward them and put them in cuffs as they have threatened to do over the past hour or so leading up to this curfew.

And really, as we look at the dozens that are here, this is so different than what we saw even just an hour, hour and a half ago where they were just outside the police precinct, hanging on the fence there, having to be pushed back by flashbangs, and at times pepper spray, even tear gas as well. And officers of many jurisdictions pushed them out forcefully.

Now, this type of law enforcement response, we knew it was going to be a symbol or at least a part of the Minneapolis area, but we did not know it was going to be for these reasons. Of course for the shooting and killing of Daunte Wright at the hands of the Brooklyn Center Police Department. What many people in the Minneapolis area thought was going to be the case was going to be for the Derek Chauvin trial.

This happening, of course, just miles away in Minneapolis. And closing arguments there are expected next week. At that point they would be deliberating over a verdict and for many in law enforcement, that's what they believe is going to be the most tense time here in the Minneapolis area.

Instead, what we're seeing is that in the week leading up to that, it seems there's a bus kind of pulling up to the police line there. We're not sure what that's about. But we're going to keep an eye on that situation. It does seem that they're being let through by the police, so it could be that that's some of coordinated situation. So, let me keep an eye on that, but on the Derek Chauvin trial purposes that was suppose to be the most stressful time for (inaudible) --

LEMON: Omar, by the way, an officer -- I'm not sure if you can see, an officer got off the bus and got back on. So you're correct. It is a coordinated situation there. I would imagine they would bring these buses in so that they could -- if they -- when they -- if they start arresting a large group of people, they'd have something to put them in, in order to transport them. That's what one would think.

[23:05:03] But an officer did get off of the bus and got back on. I'm sure the

cameras zooming in, I'm not sure if you are able to see it from that vantage point. I don't know where this bus -- it looks like the bus -- maybe there are of people who are arrested already on the bus. They're headed towards the police station, correct?

JIMENEZ: Correct. Yes, so this line is about a block away from the police station. And that is the beauty of zooming in. So, help me out with any details you see, on this scene with this lights here. So, that bus now went through that police line back toward the actual police precinct as the state patrol continues to give some more of these commands. If you continue to stay in this area, then you will be subject to arrest and violating the statutes.

And so people here still dancing in the face of these commands. Again, almost daring them to come after them and put them in cuffs. And this has been what we had been looking over this, trying to make law enforcement know of their presence, especially days after the shooting and killing of Daunte Wright here in this area.

It has inflamed an already tense community here in the Minneapolis region of this state. And this is a situation, again, that many thought was going to come, but not for these reasons and not so soon. And when you talk about the verdict that's going to come in the Derek Chauvin trial, just one more point, Don, I'm sorry, that this comes in just the weeks leading up to what would be the year anniversary of George Floyd's death.

And so this is just such a tense time and a true test of what police accountability will look like, not just here in Minneapolis, but in the U.S.

LEMON: You're absolutely right. I want you to stay there, Omar. Don't go away, don't shut off your mic, because I want you to be part of this conversation. I just want to bring in former captain of the Missouri State Highway Patrol, Ron Johnson who is former incident commander in Ferguson after Michael Brown's.

We worked together for a while in that situation. As we were watching, captain, the scene unfolding where Omar is, what's the calculation here for police? They're six -- almost seven minutes into a curfew. What happens? What should they be doing? What will they do, can you tell us?

RET. CAPT. RON JOHNSON, FORMER INCIDENT COMMANDER IN FERGUSON MISSOURI: Well, I think right now the crowds are a lot smaller. I think they will sit back a little bit, they really should be. There's a small group. I think everybody should hold their positions and just let that group disperse when they choose to disperse.

I think to get into a confrontation doesn't suit anybody well, because people are agitated. And tonight, you know, some people are going to linger on, and so I think the crowd is dispersing. I think they've gotten the point across and they have been successful in what they had been trying to gain so far. LEMON: So, if you were there and you were in command of this, you will

tell them just to sit tight and let them go home. What if they don't -- I mean, it appears that they are -- there are some of these folks, captain, who are just going to stay put. This is a residential neighborhood, so at this point, just stay put?

JOHNSON: Well, I think, you know, there's only 12 to 20 or small group. You could probably have some officers go out and try to engage them and try to have a conversation and see if you can come to some resolution there. So, I think this is an opportunity to begin to engage with the smaller crowd, which will pay dividends tomorrow when the crowds get a lot larger.

I think what I'm seeing now kind of started out how we started out in Ferguson. Police on one side and protesters on the other side. And until we begin to integrate ourselves into the crowd, we didn't see success. And so, I think this is an opportunity to start that dialogue.

LEMON: Omar, as you're out there, are you seeing what the captain is saying or are you just seeing police on one side, protesters on the other?

JIMENEZ: Well, right now just seeing police on one side, protesters on another. I mean, I would be very shocked if a few officers, you know, broke that line and tried to engage some of these protesters, but the Captain is correct in that the numbers are extremely diminished right now. And so if you were ever to do that, of course this would be a time versus when there are hundreds of, stirring them down earlier when they were at the gates of the Brooklyn Center Police Precinct.

And so, again, many have dispersed, because I cannot stress enough that earlier today, even just an hour and a half, two hours ago, protesters were shoulder to shoulder right here in this exact same location. And right now you can basically only see -- the only people you see shoulder to shoulder are the officers here on the line in that black outside the Brooklyn Center police precinct.

For them to tie this a little bit to why all of this is so significant, not just the Daunte Wright, of course, which is incredibly significant, and they are going to see it (inaudible). When you look at the Derek Chauvin trial, this has spilled over into that just a little bit. And by that I mean the judge in this case told the jurors when he dismissed them today, the first day that the defense presented its case, he told them to go home, don't talk to anyone and don't watch the news.

[23:10:05]

He doesn't want the jurors in that trial to be influenced by what's happening in their very own communities right now as they try to stay fair and impartial in that case. The defense attorney in that trial, brought this up as a concern yesterday after the first night of protests that we saw, basically saying that he worries that jurors will be put in a position where they only vote guilty because of fear of what will happen in the community. That's why the defense attorney wanted the jury to be sequestered now

versus when they're supposed to be sequestered after closing arguments and as they go through deliberations. The judge ruled that he trusts the jurors enough to be able to separate the cases, but of course the linkage between the two is the same set of emotions, the same set of pain that we now see another family joins this unwantable (ph) fraternity and sorority of families, stricken by tragic violence at the hands of police officers.

And so that is going to be a factor day in and day out in that trial, especially when you look at the scenes that happened here when we go into curfews every night where this becomes much harder to avoid, even if you are a juror, trying to avoid media. So that could be an added repercussion to some of the demonstrations that we see, again, adding to what has already been a tense time here in the Minneapolis area.

LEMON: Omar, at the height of this, how many people would you think were out there? A couple hundred? And now?

JIMENEZ: I would say there was a couple hundred at the peak of this. And right now there are about 30 at these front lines, maybe 30 or 40 people, if that. That's being pretty generous. And so again, these numbers are extremely diminished. And even if the minutes after the curfew was put into effect, these numbers were much more diminished. Instead of the big crowds shaking these fences, you got a few standing here with their hands up, you got others maybe even dancing at the front line as well.

The chants are, of course, way less than they were before. There are no microphones booming. This is just voices being heard. And there are no stories being told. There are no songs. These are the people that want to send a message that they're not going anywhere, and this is what we are seeing in the snow, in the late-night cold of an April Minnesota here.

These people aren't going anywhere and I have a feeling over the course of this week and as we sort of blend into what's happening in the Chauvin trial and deliberations there, I don't think they're going to go anywhere as those demonstrations begin to combine.

LEMON: Yes, we'll see what happens with the Chauvin trial to see if it -- if this indeed does escalate or if it quiets down depending on a verdict. I want you to stand by, Omar. I want to get to CNN's Miguel Marquez also out in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota right now. Miguel, take us to where you are, what you're seeing.

MARQUEZ: Yes. We're seeing much of the same scene, basically. There's been a long period now where police have formed a line, they have those bright lights to sort of disorient the crowd, so you can't really see what they're doing. On the right side of the line you can see that they moved more vehicles in on that side.

There was a yard off on the right side of their line that they wanted to check out. But right now you have several cars still on the street here, which I think is giving them some pause about moving too quickly up this direction. It does appear, though, that very soon they will. They have been making increased announcements that this is an unlawful assembly, that if they continue to stay here, they will be arrested.

And even talking to the media, they're saying move off and do it now. They're getting more emphatic basically in the language that they're using. The snow, amazingly enough, is starting to come down harder, and the protesters that are here, only a few dozen at this point in a large area. They're going to have to be pushed out of here.

And I think police are going to oblige them at some point and move to completely move this crowd out. It's a standoff. These are people who are so incredibly upset before this latest episode, and now that they have another one at this very sort of sensitive time for the state of Minnesota and the city of Minneapolis. It is a concern about how this is going to play out not only tonight but in the nights ahead. Don?

LEMON: Miguel Marquez, thank you very much. Captain Ron Johnson, I want to bring you back in. So, Captain, I know that you said that you would like to see more interaction, more integration with the protesters there, but at this point it seems to be a pretty good strategy with them holding the line.

[23:15:07]

The protesters are not getting anywhere near the police station there or to be able to shake the fence or to cause any harm at least to the police station. And also it appears, to the businesses around.

JOHNSON: It appears that protesters are not throwing any items and they're just venting through their voice their frustration. And so engagement right now to me wouldn't be an option that I would take because they aren't damaging any property. They're just there. Just let it play out a little bit. I'd probably decrease my troops a little bit visually to see how that impacts the crowd.

LEMON: So you would draw back a bit to see if the crowd increased or if the crowd would try to come into the area and move back into the area?

JOHNSON: No. I would decrease a little bit to see if the crowd would go away, just not have the strong view of force right there in front of them and see if that will help disperse the crowd a little bit.

LEMON: Yes. Captain Ron Johnson, thank you very much. We'll get back to the captain if need me throughout the hours that we are here on CNN. Our crews are out on the scene in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. A third night of unrest after the killing of a 20-year-old young man by police on Sunday. We're back with our breaking news right after this quick break.

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[23:20:00]

LEMON (on camera): This is the third night of protests in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, demonstrators demanding justice for Daunte Wright who was shot and killed by a police officer during a traffic stop. The mayor promising the community earlier today that they are taking the situation very seriously. A press conference really turning emotional with community leaders calling for policing reform.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: You fit a description. You fit the description.

JOHN THOMPSON, MINNESOTA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: I fit -- you, mayor, you fit the description of pretty much 90 percent of the calls that come across of these radios. So what I'm saying is, I don't want to fail another young man. We failed George Floyd. We failed Daunte. We failed Philando. I don't want to fail nobody else this summer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So that was Minnesota State Representative, John Thompson there in the video. You see him on the screen with me now.

Thank you for joining. I really appreciate it. And I've been looking forward to this conversation. You can hear the pain in your voice. It's personal for you because you saw your friend die at the hands of police. I'm talking about Philando Castile.

For the people at home who don't know, you know, you worked with him for years and his death at the hands of a police officer, it's what inspired you to get involved in politics. Why do you feel that you let these men down when their deaths were caused by police officers?

THOMPSON: We accepted increments of police reform, just sprinkles of police reform. A lot of these legislators were at George Floyd's funeral with VIP credentials, and we walked right back into the legislative body and we got nothing on police reform.

The funny thing is when my friend, Philando, was murdered, we were sold on implicit bias training and de-escalation training. And ironically there's a training facility right down the street from my house, I can see it. And when I look at the George Floyd murder, it was the field training officer, Officer Chauvin, who murdered George Floyd.

And so the need for accountability pieces in legislation have to be put into legislation. So that's why I'm so passionate because we failed -- we failed, you know, as a state. The world is watching us right now.

LEMON: What do you think can be done? Because whatever is put in place is going to take some time, right, to change people's behavior, to change the structure of police department, to change the relationship with the community. John, help us out here, what do you see as a need here?

THOMPSON: 1,000 more John Thompsons, because I'm not going to wait for change and I'm inspiring people to do the same thing. Like be the change you want to see. I'm not being arrogant or cocky or anything like that. Be the change you want to see.

Like, I got tired of showing up to the legislative body yelling. And everybody said I'm a protester after my friend is murdered. I said OK, so then I'll just -- I'll jump on the other side of the aisle and actually propose legislation that creates the change that we want to see in our state.

LEMON: Can you talk to me more, please, about Philando, your friend, Philando Castile. You worked with him for a long time, and how that changed -- his death change your life and change the trajectory of your life?

THOMPSON: Me and Philando talked right outside the store on July 5th of 2016. I was asking him why he was working at the summer school, and he said because he loved the kids. I waved my hand like, man, I don't want to hear that. He was like, yeah, but I love everybody. The ironic thing is we talked about the murder of Alton Sterling on that day, on July 5th of 2016, right outside the store. And then the very next day, July 6th, 2016, my friend was murdered in the same way we discussed outside of the store.

So, like, there's a calling over my life, and that's to be the change. There's no other way. We can no longer complain. I think Sister Leslie, I love you (inaudible), she said don't complain, activate. So this is what we have to do. We can no longer wait on the change. We have -- other than that, we're going to fail young man.

Hey, can I share something with you? I was just at a rally with the families. And there's a young leader name Teshira Galloway (ph) whose husband was murdered by the St. Paul police. And I had the microphone in my hand and I said, somebody tell Ben Crump and Al Sharpton to get rid of apartments here because we're going to be here. There's going to be another dead man here in the state of Minnesota before the summer.

[23:25:20]

And somebody ran up to me as I was saying that like Mr. Thompson, somebody just got murdered in Brooklyn Park. And so this is not just -- I know I'm not psychic, I'm just black here in the state of Minnesota, so I just want to make sure that people know how serious it is. And the world is watching this state right now, and so let's not play around, I mean, especially this year with legislation.

There are two bills right now being heard in the House of Representatives, tomorrow in the Judiciary Committee. One of them is House bill 1103 which allows families access within 48 hours of unredacted body-worn camera footage of police in critical incidents, right?

LEMON: Well, John, listen. I don't think you're psychic because that was -- I didn't -- I don't know if you watch the show, but I usually have an open where I talked about it, to sort of give people a road map of where we're going and where we are, you know, as a country. And I was going to say it's not, I mean, it may seem odd that, you know, Brooklyn Center is 10 miles away from Minneapolis, but this happens in every community. It was bound to happen again.

You mentioned Alton Sterling. I'm from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. My nieces and my sister and my brother-in-law knew Alton Sterling not very close personally, but as the cd guy, you know, at the convenience store. So it can happen in any community. And you're right, it's going to happen again. It just so happens that this was 10 miles down the road. But quite honestly, it's not that odd considering how these things have been happening over the years.

THOMPSON: My tabs are expired on my van right now because there's a backlog here, because of the pandemic. It's so hard to get tabs. My tabs say April 2020 right now. Right? And so you know, these traffic stops, your tabs are expired, your blinker is broken, your brake light is out, these traffic stops become very deadly here in certain suburbs in this state.

And our police departments across the United States -- I don't know if you understand how serious it is, but they've been infiltrated by like Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, you have the Three Percenters.

We have a young man here that just retired who was part of the (inaudible) -- that is a known white supremacist biker gang. I showed up at his house and they called me the worst person on this earth and they kicked a 15-year-old handcuffed kid in the face. He has 56 police involve -- complaints.

You know what I mean? 11 successful lawsuits, and he's rewarded, he's rewarded, the sergeant. He's a sergeant. Now how do you reward that type of behavior and say we don't have a police problem in this state? And then, I get viewed as the anti-police guy, but I'm not anti- police. I'm just anti-B.S. when it comes to like seeing these young black men. I lost my friend.

LEMON: I got you.

THOMPSON: I lost a good friend here in this state, and it really hurt. It's like being punched in the stomach. You see this kid, he has a white car man, and when they showed that video I automatically thought, like this is traumatic. I can't keep feeling this in my body, so I have to do something, I have to do something.

LEMON: I'm glad that you're doing something. And I didn't finish my thought, I didn't do, because there was breaking news, I didn't do the open. But listen, I'm glad you're doing what you're doing, John. And I want to have more time to speak with you, so I'm going to invite you back.

And you're right. There are -- just because you criticize and you want policing to be better doesn't mean that you are anti-police. I'm glad you took the pain of losing your friend and you turned it into something positive and that you're trying to make everybody better from it. Thank you, John. I appreciate it. You be well. Thanks.

So our breaking news is out of Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, tonight. These are real stories. The people who come on, their hearts are broken and they're trying to make their communities better. Last night it was the aunt who could barely drive and talk and get her words out. And tonight you have a friend of Philando Castile whose the trajectory of his life changed and now he's telling us about what he wants to see better and how he wants us to do better. Our breaking news continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This is the breaking news tonight. Protesters are still out on the streets over the deadly police shooting of Daunte Wright in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota.

I want to bring in now CNN's senior legal analyst Laura Coates, a former federal prosecutor, and legal analyst Joey Jackson, a criminal defense attorney. Curfew has been in effect there for about 34 minutes. There are protesters out defying that curfew now, Joey. Good evening to both of you, by the way.

Joey, you know, you got the Chauvin trial going on that you've been reporting on, of course, the deadly police shooting of Daunte wright now. We could see a charging decision as early as tomorrow. What sort of charges, if any, could we see in a case like this?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, you know, good morning -- good evening to you, Don. Good evening to you, Laura. Listen, you know, you have a responsibility and a duty as an officer to act reasonably and responsibly.

[23:34:57]

JACKSON: And when people generally think about charges, they think about people acting with intent, right? They think about people doing something in a premeditated way.

I think it's important that we all understand that you're held accountable for your conduct and your actions even if you don't act with premeditation.

And so the really issue of your question, if you act negligently, right, that is that you act in an irresponsible way where you violated duty of care, that represents a manslaughter charge, which is punishable by 10 years.

And so, you know, you don't have a free opportunity to take a life. You don't have an actual, you know, defense by saying I simply made a mistake. At all times, you should be cautious. At all times, you should exercise as much prudence as you can. And here, that did not happen. So as a result of that, I think that's the type of charge that you'll see.

LEMON: You know what, Laura? You know, usually we're sitting here a couple days after saying police may issue the body camera video at some point, the officer may resign, the mayor is in hot water, but this case has moved swiftly from the shooting on Sunday. That body cam video was released, video was released yesterday, resignations today, possible charges as early as tomorrow. Is this an accelerated timeframe and how has that impacted this case?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it is accelerated for how we think about officer-involved shootings. But many people who are arrested or have committed a crime or have even claimed to have made a mistake, I mean, oftentimes, they're arrested on the spot and charging decisions are made pretty quickly.

Now, a grand jury is not always able to be impanelled immediately to return an indictment. This may be explained (ph) even from Minnesota or even a grand jury assuming it's even warranted in this case or needed is my statement in terms of whether a grand jury would need to be impanelled for this prosecutorial discretion to be used here.

But remember, this is a case where, as Joey talked about, as a prosecutor, I really only met people after they made the quote, unquote biggest mistake of their lives. Ninety-nine percent of the time, people who are in the criminal justice system are not people that have been life-long criminals or people who have done something for which they will now be held accountable.

And of course, a couple years ago, in Minnesota, you're talking about another officer, Mohamed Noor, who also claimed to had made a mistake when he shot into an alleyway, killing Justine Damond, who was an Australian woman who was weeks from her own wedding, because she called in a sexual assault.

So this idea of an officer claiming to have made a mistake does not really exonerate the person in the eyes of the prosecution. That one led to a conviction. But negligence, recklessness, particularly of an officer who not only at duty of care but is a veteran, 26-year officer, you're talking about a very different standard of reasonableness, essentially, of what was a mistake in terms of a taser or a gun. That's assuming it, in fact, was a mistake.

LEMON: All right. Laura and Joey, I want you to stand by as we watch these pictures coming in from Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. A little trash fire they're sitting there. But we'll continue to watch this. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: -- and members of the Congressional Black Caucus. the president calling it a painful week with the fatal police shooting of Daunte Wright and the continuing trial of Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd.

Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina is one of the most senior Democrats in the House. He attended the meeting. He joins me now. Representative Clyburn, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Thank you very much for having me.

LEMON: It is a painful time for all Americans, especially Black Americans who are relating to this and really in many ways. There's Daunte Wright, another young Black man shot dead by police a few miles away of the Derek Chauvin trial over the killing of George Floyd.

President Biden acknowledging that today on a personal level that it's exhausting and frustrating and infuriating to have to live through this again and again, isn't it?

CLYBURN: It is very exhausting and it is very, very -- a very sad state of affairs that we find ourselves in. The country seems to be lurching from one to another. We go from one mass shooting to another mass shooting to another. And here we are going from one police incident to another police incident to another.

And to have the trial taking place, probably the most notable trial of this kind, and within 10 miles of that site to have this to take place, a 22-year-old young African-American who at the point of a stop was so concerned, he called his mother, and within a few minutes, dead at the hands of a police officer.

We have got to stop this. This is not about policing. This is not about training. This is about recruiting. Who are we recruiting to be police officers? That, to me, is where the focus has got to go. We got to have police officers. They've got to be people who want to be servants of the people, rather than people who are seeking people to be subservient to them.

[23:45:03]

LEMON: I have to ask you about some of your colleagues and some of their comments. Your Democratic colleague Rashida Tlaib is tweeting this. It wasn't an accident. Policing in our country is inherently and intentionally racist. Daunte Wright was met with aggression and violence. I am done with those who condone government funded murder. No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed.

Listen, you've been a vocal critic of slogans like defund the police. I wonder if you think the latest remarks, are they harmful?

CLYBURN: No, I don't think so. I think that she represents her district. She knows what's going on in and around Detroit. That is one thing. But I come out of a culture where people honor the police. But they want good policing.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

CLYBURN: We do not honor bad police officers. And I've said it time and time again. I grew up in the (INAUDIBLE). I remember the first time I eavesdropped on a meeting going on in my house. My dad was presiding over the meeting to defund the police -- a minister. They didn't get rid of the church. They didn't get dispel the congregation. They got rid of the minister.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

CLYBURN: And that's what we got to do. We got to have people in this profession of policing to be least --

LEMON: Can I ask you, though? Do you think -- I'm sorry to interrupt. There is a delay. But do you think her comments hurt the cause? Because, you know, they're trying to -- you have efforts to get this George Floyd Justice in Policing Act passed to get it through the Senate. It's going to be an uphill climb. Do you think her comments hurt the cause, though?

CLYBURN: No, I don't think they do. I think she's expressing her frustrations and what she hears from her constituents. And I can understand that.

LEMON: Yeah.

CLYBURN: But we need to pass this Justice in Policing Act just because it gives us the kind of tools that we need to deal with police officers who are not good. Qualified immunity, I'm telling you, all you got to do is look at those two police officers there in Virginia.

The way they treated Latino -- Afro-Latin American, the way they treated him in his fatigues, a lieutenant in the medic corps, and they had no regards for him simply because he was a person of color. That is about recruiting, the kind of people we hire into policing.

And so I just think that this bill will allow us to get rid of things like qualified immunity. I'm telling you, all you got to do is listen to that guy and you know that he feels that he has a shield that will protect him from ever having to be accountable.

LEMON: Yeah. Yeah. Just the humiliation that the lieutenant faced. I can only imagine if I was in that situation -- not that severe, but you know, how people talk you, they feel that they can talk to you and handle you any kind of way, right, when they have the authority over you. That case should not be forgotten because there's a lot going on. But we should not forget that case in Virginia. You're absolutely right.

Before I let you go, I want to ask you about reparations. I know they came up in the meeting with the president today. What did President Biden say about that?

CLYBURN: Well, he is going to work -- he made it very clear to Sheila Jackson Lee, the author of H.R. 40, that he is sensitive to a study being done that will help the country get to where it needs to be on this issue. We've done this before. There's nothing unusual about this. But what we've got to do is don't allow the monetization of H.R. 40, even reparations itself. The root word I always say is to repair.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

CLYBURN: So, there needs to be a study of how do we repair the harm done by slavery. How do we repair the causes that were perpetrated during Jim Crow? That's what we need to have a study for.

The problem is, people -- the moment you say reparations, people start talking about monetizing it. You can't monetize this. You got to get the institutions of our society toned in to what needs to be done. And a good study will accomplish that.

LEMON: Congressman Clyburn, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.

CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.

[23:50:00]

LEMON: We'll be right back.

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LEMON: We want to get back now live to Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, a third night of protests over the deadly police shooting of Daunte Wright. CNN's Miguel Marquez is there. Miguel, what are you seeing?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, they've just broken up the protests for good now. There is no more noise coming from protesters. They've all scattered.

[23:54:59]

MARQUEZ: This is the police line now that we are now, about two blocks from the police station. We've gotten separated from some of our crew. You can see the police lights in the distance. They moved in from two different directions.

Some of the protesters started a small campfire to stay warm in the middle of the street. And shortly after that, they moved in very rapidly from the police station, and then from the north side of the police station as well, sort of boxing everybody in. They made several arrests. Cars were trying to escape.

It was a concerning scene because as the cars were trying to get out, there were several people who were about to get hit because cars were moving so fast in the number of people who were trying to get out. And now, police, as you can see, have formed a line.

We're several blocks from the police agent at this point and it looks like that is it for tonight. But protesters promise they will be back again and again and again, and certainly in the days ahead as that trial just a few blocks from here, a few miles from here wraps up. It will heighten the concern and it will heighten the protests in this area. Don?

LEMON: Yeah, protesters say they'll be back. Miguel will be out covering it. We will as well here on CNN. Miguel, thank you very much. We appreciate your reporting.

And thank you, everyone, for watching. Our live coverage will continue in just moments.

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