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Don Lemon Tonight

Sixth Night of Protest Over Police Killing of Daunte Wright; America Careening from Crisis To Crisis, At Least 45 Mass Shooting in Past Month Amid Deadly Pandemic; One Hundred Days After Deadly Capitol Riot, the FBI is Still Trying to Identify Hundreds More Rioters; Shaka King on Judas and the Black Messiah. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 16, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Top of the hour. We'll are going straight now to Chicago and Brooklyn Center where there are protests in the streets tonight. Let's start with CNN's Sara Sidner in Brooklyn Center for us. Sara, hello. What is it like right there -- out there right now?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, so everyone just started sprinting because a police line came out. There is no curfew that has been announced tonight. But there have been some bottles thrown, water bottles over the police line. And some rocks and a few other things. And so they've been returning with the, the police have been returning, the objects, and pepper spray, a little gas, but then there was movement from police. And everyone just scattered. Us as well.

They have been saying there is an unlawful assembly. They have been telling people they have to go home now because of the back and forth between protesters and police. And let me show you. I think, yeah. Let me just see if I can see whether that is the police. Yeah, it is. Let's try to get a little bit closer.

UNKNOWN: Be careful, you all.

SIDNER: Thank you. I cannot see over the crowd. But there definitely was a movement and people got spooked and started running. I have to tell you that before this, there is a gentleman on top of a car with a megaphone. He's been talking all night. And he kept asking people not to throw anything. He's like, we need to do this peacefully, over and over and over again. And then people just didn't listen.

And it is only a couple of people but that's all it takes for there to be, you know, this back and forth where things get violent, and they get dangerous. Because less than lethal munitions will be fired. People have been firing off fireworks. That spooks the crowd as well. Sometimes on the ground they explode. Sometimes in the air they explode. And then sometimes they're throwing that sort of toward the police line which is all the way around the precinct you see there at Brooklyn Center.

People have -- some folks have shields but for the most part, you know, the crowd has been peaceful. But it is only a few people, and those few people are causing a lot of issues for and now they're shooting the munitions. Let's back it up. People are getting hit with rubber bullets.

And by the way, those rubber bullets, as you know, they can take out an eye and they have. Journalists have been hit with them. Protestors have been hit with them. And so, you're seeing people kneel down and get low or run. Run away. That's the situation right now. And again, for hours. We have been out here for hours. Where mothers have been speaking about their sons. Where we're hearing from all sorts of different people during the day.

And just in the last hour or so, there has been this back and forth where people are throwing things over the fence and police are returning fire with less than lethal rounds. Either you know, tear gas or mostly pepper spray to keep people away. OK. The police are coming, turn around, turn around. Hold on, Don. Turn the camera. Yeah. Hold on. Those are cops, too. Right there, right there. If you guys are still live, to your left --

LEMON: We're still there, Sara.

SIDNER: -- are police officers.

LEMON: We're still with you.

SIDNER: Can you see them? OK. You can see them. We're going to go -- are there cops back there?

LEMON: Sara -- it's always, it always happens at night. It always happens around this time.

SIDNER: Yes.

LEMON: So we're going to let Sara go.

SIDNER: And this is partly --

LEMON: Sara, stand by.

SIDNER: Yep, yep. We're good.

LEMON: Stand by. OK.

SIDNER: We're good. So, what they're doing right now is kettling. They're kettling folks. So they have got people surrounded. So we're going to try to make our way out of the kettle.

[23:05:00]

And make a move so that we don't get detain. And so that we're sort of out of the line of fire.

LEMON: Are those police officers in front of you that we see with the vests? Yes, there they are. SIDNER: Those are police officers right here in front of us. So you

will see, there is a line of officers in front of us. That is in front of another building. But as you probably saw, I just want to give you an idea. Those are officers there.

LEMON: Yes.

SIDNER: These are residents, trying to get out. There are officers on the other side coming this way. People are running. Now you are going to see folks running. Alright. So, folks are running. Watch out for the car. Watch out for the car. All right. We're going to -- yeah.

UNKNOWN: (Inaudible).

SIDNER: All right. There are people that are on the ground that are on the ground. Somebody looks injured. Hold on. Yeah. Hold on. All right. They're grabbing people. Let's go, you all. Let's go. Let's go. Straight back. Straight back. All right, Don. We've got to go.

LEMON: OK, Sara, thank you. Sara is in the middle of a situation right now -- there and we will check back with her. We're in constant communication so, not to worry. As Sara gets out of harm's way there, I want to take to you Chicago where there are protests over the deadly police shooting of Adam Toledo. Martin Savidge is there for us. Martin, there are protesters out there but quite a different scene than where Sara is right now.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I would argue the difference. We are starting to see it deteriorate quickly here. You pointed out rightly. It is always about this time of night and it's usually at the time, this was a huge peaceful protest, and they were dispersing. And then we began to see some people running. It appears the Chicago police grabbed someone. Put them into a squad car and then the crowd immediately surrounded that squad car. And that is where this kind of tense stand-off has begun.

There have been items that had been thrown at police. You can see the police have changed their posture. The police have not been in amongst the protesters. Now they definitely are. You can see that they're wearing much more protective gear. You can look over here. You can see a whole line of police officers that are clearly ready to move in. There is kind of a delta formation here, so they are kind of ready to be able to push if they have to.

But you can tell, they're still trying to use restraint. They're still trying to essentially keep order. But they also know that the crowd is larger right now numerically than the officers are. That is what you see here. It is quite obvious that the police have ready enforcements standing by to move in. It has been that way all day. But now it's clear that it has gone much more tense.

Before it was very diverse. It was very loud, but it was a peaceful and well organized protest. And again, just as people were starting to disperse and leave is when apparently there was some kind of trouble and now the tensions are greatly escalating. Police helicopters, you can tell, circling overhead. Light shining down on the crowd and it's a stand-off at this point, Don.

LEMON: Yeah, Martin, as you said. It is always at night. These things can go on all day and none an incident. A very few and then at night it happens. Martin, I want you to keep safe out there. We are going to continue to check in with Martin Savidge as well. Martin and Sara, both out in the middle of those protests.

Joining me now, our new CNN political commentator, Ashley Allison, she is a former Obama White House staffer and former National Coalition Director for the Biden-Harris campaign. Welcome to CNN. Thanks for joining. Also with us now, political commentator Ana Navarro and Mark McKinnon, the adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain and the executive producer of The Circus.

Look at this beautiful, very smart group that I have. I'm so happy to have all of you. Good evening. Mark, you first. Friday night, 11:00 p.m. Do you know where your country is?

MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Man, just listening to the live reports and watching them, Don, it felt like I was in 1968. You know, I felt like we were flashing back a half a century. And yet here we are. And the flags are at half-mast in Washington for the pas five weeks. It looks like the flag will be half-mast in Washington D.C. It's at full mast and that's a hell of a statement on America today.

LEMON: Ana Navarro, you know, it is all so horrible, and it is coming on top of 566,000 Americans dead from the pandemic. I mean, we've all been looking forward to a return to normal. Is this what normal looks like now?

[23:10:00]

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I hope not. And you know, I'm glad you brought up the pandemic. Because Don, I think we have to treat what is happening right now as an epidemic. The difference between an epidemic and a pandemic, this is not worldwide. What we are seeing with mass shootings, 45 mass shootings in America in the last 30 days. That's more than one a day. What are we going to do about it? What are we going to do about the abuse by police?

You know, we've had to, it's been so emotionally exhausting. And we're not family of the victims. And it is emotionally exhausting. Think about it. We were watching the George Floyd trial and we had to take a break from that outrage and that emotional distress to get outraged and emotionally distressed over Lieutenant Nazario.

And then we had to take a break from that. That was interrupted. So we could get outraged about Daunte Wright and then that was interrupted, so that we could get outraged about Adam Toledo and that was interrupted, so that we could get outraged over eight people getting killed last night in a mass shooting. Yet another mass shooting. This has got to end.

The American people have got to demand more from the politicians, from their elected officials, and we have got to treat this as an epidemic because Americans are dying because of the lack of action. LEMON: You know, Ashley, we're seeing all this video played out over

and over again. A black man killed by police. People want to look away because, you know, it is just too much. I talked about it, I call it the new black exploitation. How do you see it?

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, unfortunately, this is nothing new. This is not just happening in 2021. It has happened in 2020. And you can record back to the early 2000s where police violence has been perpetuated on those black and brown bodies.

The thing about this, what is so sad about what's happening in Minneapolis is, those folks are in the streets just protesting about Daunte Wright. They're protesting because they're still in pain from George Floyd. They're still in pain from Philando Castile. They're still in pain from Laquan McDonald and Jamar Clark who have all been killed at the hands of police violence.

And it is not just that people have been killed by police violence. It is the fact that there seems to be no consequences when black lives are taken. And so, you know, call it black exploitation. Call it frustration. Call it enough is enough. We have to, it is an epidemic, but it has been going on really since the inception of this country was moving indigenous people off their land and in slavery. But it has something that has gone on in your entire lifetime and definitely in mine. LEMON: Ana, listen, you mentioned the 45th mass shooting in the U.S.

over the past month. That was today. So, this is what President Biden said about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every single day, every single day there is a mass shooting in the United States. You count all those who are killed out on the streets of our cities and our rural areas. It's a national embarrassment and must come to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Biden could push for gun laws all day every day. But Republicans are never going to let it happen. And they are the ones against the will of the American people. Aren't they?

NAVARRO: It's Republicans doing the bidding of the NRA. Let's call it what it is. There is a special interest group that called any type of gun reform the slippery slope that we cannot go under. And we have seen in the last several months that the NRA, is a (inaudible), it is a way where people play themselves excessive (inaudible).

They are men like Arabian Sheikhs. Go off and flee to yachts when there are mass shootings because they don't feel safe in America. And it is those people who are making so much money and profit from keeping any gun reform around that have bought and paid for Republican Coalition (inaudible) --

LEMON: Ana? I've got to cut you guys short. I'm sorry. I have to get to the breaking news. I apologize. We want to get back now to Martin Savidge, who is in Chicago. Martin, what do you have going on?

SAVIDGE: We're still watching the situation here. It is a stand-off. And you can see that there is more and more police that have now congregated here. They're, well, they're in their riot gear, they are in their riot posture. They have got the batons out. Right now this crowd which had been dispersing isn't showing any signs of doing that.

There is a lot of in your face. You can see there are protesters that are right up against the police line here.

[23:15:00]

Traffic has also been disrupted in the area and so intersections, and this is a busy one here around Logan Square. Right now, it has been pretty much brought to a standstill. It is pretty clear that police are trying to use their best restrain. How much longer it is going to last like this, we don't know. There have been warnings that have been passed by people in the crowd saying, hey, look, there are going to be more arrests made and there are apparently police vehicles coming in to do that.

But here you can see the police are beginning to pull back. And the crowd chases after them in a mocking fashion, sort of saying, goodbye, goodbye. But it is hard to believe that the police of this city are in any way really going to back down. They may be backing away temporarily, hoping that could settle the crowd down.

But we continue to watch and monitor here. There were some arrests and that is what initially got the crowd agitated. But it is so hard often to understand the small things that can happen, that can quickly escalate into huge and serious events. So, we continue to monitor what is going on here. At the same time, as we know that authorities are watching overhead. And we have to keep our heads on a swivel, too, to just make sure --

LEMON: What is that noise, Martin that we're hearing? It is like a humming or --

SAVIDGE: I'll show you. Yes, over this way, you can see, it is an intersection. It's been taken over by the crowd. They're laying on their horns, they're revving the engines, they are putting smoke in the air. So, right now the people here have control of the street. And the police seem to be willing to at least (inaudible) a bit of this for the hopes that they can cause the crowd to maybe try to give up and say look, it's time to go home. You've made your point. You've done your protest.

This went for well over three hours. And it was a very diverse crowd, you have a lot of families. Very peaceful and orderly. But that whole thing is not changing. It is clear that those who are staying behind here are staying for the purpose of you know, watching or trying to agitate. The police are here to make sure it doesn't go beyond that.

LEMON: Where are you in the city, Martin?

SAVIDGE: Logan Square, about northwest. LEMON: Oh, you're on Logan Square. OK.

SAVIDGE: A couple miles out from the city. So, that's where all this has been, we marched for a couple of miles, basically did a circle loop and then came back here to the square.

LEMON: All right, Martin, as you said. Keep your head on a swivel. You have to protect yourself out there. But -- just make sure you are safe. We are going to continue to check in with Martin and with Sara Sidner who is Brooklyn. Martin is in Chicago.

You know, there's been so much violence over the last 100 days and it has been 100 days quite frankly since the Capitol insurrection. Protesters -- prosecutors -- excuse me, have charged hundreds of people in connection with the riot, but hundreds more still unidentified. The latest on the investigation. That's next.

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[23:20:00]

LEMON: So we're back now live. And we are monitoring what's happening in Chicago also in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, as well. Just to try to make sure that everything is OK there. But we're going to keep an eye on it. Our correspondents are there on the ground.

You know, 100 days ago, pro Trump rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol. Five people died amid a trail of destruction. And today the first guilty plea. John Ryan Schaffer, a founding member of the Oath Keepers, the far-right paramilitary group pleading guilty to obstruction and entering the building with a dangerous weapon.

But this is just the beginning for the Justice Department. Prosecutors have charged at least 375 people in connection with the riot. But as CNN's Jessica Schneider reports tonight, while the massive federal investigation has made progress, it has also run into some major road blocks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For 100 days we've been inundated with the images. And the searing sounds of an insurrection that seemed unimaginable prior to January 6th. But 100 days later, the FBI now tells CNN they are still searching for these 10 unidentified suspects they spotlighted viciously attacking police.

And there are another 225 people the FBI has posted pictures of on their website, who still are not identified. Plus, prosecutors are working to piece together clues to one of the biggest questions that has lingered. Was the attack on the Capitol coordinated?

FBI Director, Christopher Wray told NPR last month that evidence of a national conspiracy has not yet emerged. But dozens of members of the far-right extremist groups, the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, have been charged with conspiracy counts. As prosecutors detail how they coordinated travel and planned for violence. UNKNOWN: Hey, what's going on everybody, this is Joe Biggs.

SCHNEIDER: Joseph Biggs is one of the handful of alleged leaders of the Proud Boys charged with conspiracy. Court papers say the man communicated on an encrypted messaging app about their plans while preparing paramilitary and high-tech communications equipment, crowd sourcing $5,500 between December 30th and January 4th, and encouraging their right-wing members to descend on Washington.

UNKNOWN: Overran the Capitol.

SCHNEIDER: Donavan Crowl and Jessica Watkins are two of the more than dozen Oath Keepers charge with conspiracy. Some members of the Oath Keepers are seen moving in military style formation through the crowd on the east side of the Capitol that day before congregating in the Capitol Rotunda.

And the feds recently revealed members of the Oath Keepers likely stashed weapons, at an Arlington Virginia Comfort In, releasing this picture they say of is Kenneth Harrelson, willing what appears to be a rifle case through the hotel lobby. Harrelson denies the allegation.

And then there's this Facebook message allegedly from Oath Keeper leader Kelly Meggs saying he's orchestrated a plan with the Proud Boys. Prosecutors say it indicates planning between two extremist groups. But no full pledged conspiracy has been charged just yet.

[23:25:02]

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: These are clearly people whose culpability is at a much higher level than just the random person who happened to find themselves in the crowd and went into the Capitol.

SCHNEIDER: And CNN reported last month that investigators are even probing communications between members of Congress and the pro-Trump mob to find out if lawmakers knowingly or unknowingly helped the insurrectionists. It is a sprawling investigation involving hundreds of agents from nearly every FBI field office across the country. CNN counts 370 people have been charged so far.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: To me thus far, DOJ gets a grade of incomplete. They're off to a good start. They've made a lot of cases. But the question is going to be, are they going to bring the more serious charges against the more serious players.

SCHNEIDER: Prosecutors will have to decide whether to bring the weighty charge of sedition against any rioters. It is a rarely used (inaudible) charge brought against those who try to overthrow the government and it brings up to 20 years in prison. The biggest mystery still eluding investigators, who planted two pipe bombs outside the RNC and DNC buildings just blocks from the Capitol.

And it is still unknown how Capitol police officer Bryan Sicknick died. Two men, Julian Kahter and George Tanios have been charged with assaulting Sicknick and two other officers with a chemical spray. But Sicknick didn't die until a day later and the medical examiner said the cause and manner of Sicknick's death is still pending.

UNKNOWN: They broke the glass.

SCHNEIDER: But throughout -- now 100 day probe, there has been pushback from some prominent members of Congress doubting what unfolded directly in front of and around them that day. Senator Ron Johnson has repeatedly tried to rewrite history, portraying the mob as harmless.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Many of the marchers were families with small children, many were elderly or overweight or just playing tired of frail. Traits not typically attributed to the riot prone. Many wear pro-police shirts or carried pro-police black and blue flags.

SCHNEIDER: Senator Johnson comments stand in stark contrast to what officers experienced on the ground.

DANIEL HODGES, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: They were waving the thin blue line flag and telling us, you know, we're not your enemy, as while they were attacking us and, you know, killed one of us.

SCHNEIDER: Now, it's federal judges who are left sorting through cases that could take years to work through the court system.

Big changes are also being recommended at the scene of the attack. Capitol police are under intense scrutiny after the inspector general just revealed they weren't prepared or equipped to confront the mob on January 6th. The I.G. saying their ammunition was expired, their riot shields ineffective, and he is now recommending a drastic change to the way the department is led and structured, Don.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Jessica, thank you so much.

Capitol police officers who went through the insurrection still struggling to come to terms with what happened. Officers like Harry Dunn. He joins me next.

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[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Today marks 100 days since a crowd of Trump-supporting insurrectionists attacked the Capitol. More than 400 people have already been charged. The FBI is still trying to identify hundreds more rioters. But as we learn more about what led up to the riot, are we any closer to ensuring that this can't ever happen again?

Back on the show with me now is Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn. He is speaking for himself and not on behalf of the department, and we are certainly grateful to have him back on again. Thank you, sir. How are doing?

HARRY DUNN, CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER: I'm well. Thank you for having me on. It is an honor and a privilege to be on with you again. Thank you.

LEMON: We spoke about the trauma that you and other officers -- that was, you know, the months since it happened, right after it happened, the trauma you and other officers are dealing with from January 6. You were attacked, called racial slurs. Hundreds of officers were injured. Some died. One hundred days out, how do you think everybody is dealing? Certainly, I think, you may be in better spirits, but not back to normal.

DUNN: Yeah. Well, what you've got to realize is, for me, like I said earlier, the healing process is different for everybody. I was just getting around to the place a week or so ago before -- right when I was starting to, you know, put -- try to put things behind me and go forward, and then we had our other co-worker, Billy Evans was killed, and that kind of set us back a lot.

We're down, but we're not defeated. We are a resilient bunch. We're going to keep fighting. You know, when people say, are you good? No, I'm not good. I'm not good at all. I'm OK. I'm good as could be expected. But I'm going to get better. We're going to get better. So, I'm optimistic.

LEMON: Some Republican lawmakers and even the former president, they're trying to rewrite history, saying that the riots, that they weren't that bad, that the rioters were actually Antifa. I know you said that this isn't political for you, but how do you respond to them twisting the truth like that?

DUNN: It's hurtful. It's hurtful and it is like a slap in the face, without even asking us or talking to us about what we went through. One word that I heard over and over and over and over again during the hearing yesterday was rank and file, rank and file. But we're -- they're just going off with their opinions and stuff like that. So, what they think.

Some people still think Trump won the election. Those people are -- those are the people that are still saying that it wasn't that bad. So --

LEMON: Yeah.

DUNN: -- it's insulting and it's kind of like a slap in the face, but it doesn't deter us from doing our job because we have a great sense of pride about this country.

[23:35:00]

DUNN: And a few bad apples are not going to let me look at this -- yeah, you get down, you have some moments, but you've to realize. And one thing I will say is I appreciate the outpouring of love and support from your viewers around the world. They are so -- they give you hope and they let you know that, wow, America, it is OK, it's going to be OK.

As long as there are people out there that are willing to speak up and speak the truth and stand up for injustices, as long as we have those people, we have a chance.

LEMON: Yeah. When we last spoke, you talked about what it is like as a Black police officer. That it is tough to take that people not only target you for your job but for the color of your skin. I want to you talk about that challenge. Where are you now on that?

DUNN: I'm encouraged. I'm an optimistic person. That's just me. I'm always hoping, you know, it has to get better, like the glass is half full. That's how I am. So, racism, it exists. It exists. I don't think it is going anywhere. It is always going to exist.

But we need people to continue to come out and denounce it. Don't just say, that was a tough thing to say, maybe he shouldn't have said that. Say it was wrong. It was wrong, period. We need more people to speak out and denounce it.

And, you know, that's how you stomp it out. There will be people that will always exist in some capacity. But we need to do our best to fight it. Everybody, full force, speak out against it. That goes with the racism against the Asian -- that, you know.

LEMON: Any kind of injustice or anti --

DUNN: Any -- it's anybody.

LEMON: Yeah.

DUNN: Yes, exactly.

LEMON: So, listen, I have a podcast. It is called "Silence is Not an Option." And in my book, I wrote, "Silence is Not an Option." People cannot be silent in this moment. You are exactly right. They have to speak out against it in the moment.

So much about our national attention right now, this week, is focused on incidents of police shootings or using violence against Black men. As a Black man and a police officer, what are your thoughts about that? Why does this keep happening?

DUNN: You know, some people talk about lack of training. I don't necessarily think it is the lack of training. I believe the officer in Minnesota, the most recent one, which one, right? The most recent one was -- she was a training officer. And whether, you know, mistake or not, you can't do that.

So I don't think it is about the training. I think it is about the type of person that you have. You have to be people that want -- that want to de-escalate, not that know how to, that want to, that choose nonviolence.

You know, to quote Martin Luther King, nonviolence, you know. You have to -- it's a type of person. I don't think it's -- yeah, it's cool that people can, you know, I learn how to deescalate, but do you want to do it? Yeah, I know how to, but do it every single time.

So I think it is the type of people, not necessarily the training. I think it goes hand in hand, but I think the bigger portion is the type of people that are doing the job, because you have good and bad people out there.

LEMON: What do you think can be done to alleviate the real fears that lots of folks have around police officers now?

DUNN: That is such -- it is such a tough question to answer, because I feel like if anybody had the right answer, then it would be done. I do think one thing we need to do is continue to hold each other accountable. That goes for the community, police officers holding other police officers accountable. We need to do that.

You know, what -- what's difficult is police officers. A lot of us are type "A" person. We don't want to admit that we're wrong. We don't want to admit that we're wrong. And it is OK to be wrong.

It's not OK to be wrong and not do anything about it or have not anybody stand up and say, hey, that was wrong. We need to continue to speak out when we see something wrong. And it's hard to -- it is hard to. Maybe that's why it doesn't get done.

LEMON: Yeah.

DUNN: But we need to continue -- like I said about racism, we got to continue to stomp it out and one bad apple at a time. I think Trevor Noah said it is a rotten tree or something. He said a quote like that.

I get it, but those -- just because there are good apples on the tree, does that tree just -- is it no good? Now, you just give it a whole tree (ph). What about the good apples? We got to continue to overrun police departments with good apples and not allow those bad ones.

[23:40:00]

DUNN: When you see it, get rid of it.

LEMON: Thank you, officer. I appreciate it.

DUNN: Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you.

LEMON: A movie about the life and death of Chicago Black Panther leader Fred Hampton getting a lot of Oscar buzz and highlighting what Black people are going through today. The director of "Judas and the Black Messiah" Shaka King joins me, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: When the Oscars are given out next month, a lot of eyes will be on "Judas and the Black Messiah," nominated for five Oscars, including best picture. The movie hits home for a lot of Americans because of its parallels to what is happening today.

[23:45:04]

LEMON: "Judas and the Black Messiah" tells a story of Fred Hampton, the young leader of the Black Panthers in Chicago who was shot dead by police in 1969.

So let's talk about the movie and its impact today with Shaka King, the director and one of the co-writers of "Judas and the Black Messiah." I'm so happy to have you here, Shaka. Thank you so much for joining us.

SHAKA KING, DIRECTOR AND CO-WRITER, JUDAS AND THE BLACK MESSIAH: Thanks for having me.

LEMON: This film opens to the racial uprisings before and during Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassination in 1968. It is hard not to see how this resonates with the racial reckoning that is going on today. Talk about the parallels between then and now, if you will.

KING: I think they're endless, you know. I mean, I think especially -- one of the things striking to me editing the film during the pandemic was just the way that the Panthers focused heavily on public health and access to health care for Black and brown folks, poor Black and brown folks. It was a mandate to build a medical clinic in every neighborhood where there was a Black Panther office.

And so, you know, observing that and seeing the way the pandemic affected our communities disproportionately was just eye opening to me. The Panthers were very much ahead of the curve in terms of recognizing just the need for a holistic approach to changing the ills that plague this country, especially poor folks and Black and brown folks.

LEMON: I want to play a clip. It is from "Judas and the Black Messiah." Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL KALUUYA, ACTOR: It's not a question of violence or non- violence. It is a question of resistance to fascism or nonexistence within fascism. You can murder a liberator, but you can't murder liberation. You can murder a revolutionary, but you can't murder a revolution. You can murder a freedom-fighter, but you can't murder freedom!

(APPLAUSE)

KALUUYA: I said I am.

CROWD: I am.

KALUUYA: A revolutionary.

CROWD: A revolutionary.

KALUUYA: I am.

CROWD: I am.

KALUUYA: A revolutionary.

CROWD: A revolutionary.

KALUUYA: I am.

CROWD: I am.

KALUUYA: A revolutionary.

CROWD: A revolutionary.

KALUUYA: I am.

CROWD: I am.

KALUUYA: A revolutionary.

CROWD: A revolutionary.

KALUUYA: Let me hear the people beat. Let me hear the people beat.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Shaka, I mean, it's amazing. In his speech, you use some of Fred Hampton's real words. What do you think people will take from these words today?

KING: I mean, you know, that was what really attracted me to the project, quite frankly, above all. Just how, you know, profound and revolutionary but also in many ways logical. The ideology was -- particularly the way that Jim and Fred expressed that ideology. I thought it was just really profound. You know, what people can take from his words today, you know, it's -- I think, man --

LEMON: Do you think -- he's talking about a revolution in there. Do you think we need a revolution now? I say we're in the middle of a racial reckoning right now. Do you think we need a revolution?

KING: Well, I mean, I think we've been, you know, there's been a need for a revolution from the time that the Panthers were in existence and thriving. I think even this idea of us being in a racial reckoning now, the terms racial reckoning implies that there was a time when Black people weren't really at the tip of the spear.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

KING: And we have been for since, you know, kidnapped Africans were brought to this country. And so, you know, I don't really believe in the idea that being in racial reckoning is as much as -- this is a continuation of the struggle that we've been engaged in since we've been here.

LEMON: So, Judas has received a stunning five Oscar nominations, including best picture, the first time for an all-Black produced film. This is the first time two Black actors from the same film are nominated and such a record for most Black nominees from the same film with 10 people nominated. I mean, did you expect this degree of recognition? And shall I say congratulations? But did you expect this?

KING: No, I didn't.

[23:49:59]

KING: But I knew that what we were doing was special and whether it was recognized by the academy or other sort of well-respected governing bodies in this, I knew that it was going to resonate with folks. It was definitely going to resonate with a lot of Black folks who have been waiting to see a story like this brought to the masses.

And I thought that we've done it and we emulated in such a clever way that it was going to resonate beyond Black folks, which it has. So, I didn't expect it, but I can't say I'm, like, full-on surprised that it's gotten the recognition that it has because everyone gave their all. And, you know, you're talking about some incredibly talented folks, you know, in front of the camera and behind the camera as well. So --

LEMON: It is really an impressive piece of work. I appreciate you. I appreciate your intellect, your intelligence, your insight, and I thank you so much for appearing on the show. Congratulations and best of luck, OK?

KING: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you very much, Shaka.

KING: Thanks a lot. I appreciate it. Thank you. Take care.

LEMON: So right now, I would like to take a moment to send some good wishes, a shout-out, if you will, to my dear friend, Jovita Moore. Jovita is news anchor extraordinaire at WSB-TV down in my old city of Atlanta. She is recovering after surgery today for two brain tumors. Jovita, I am sending you energy, lots of support and love. Make sure you get well soon because we need you back on TV. We'll be right back.

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[23:55:00]

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LEMON: Tonight, I want to take a moment to reach out and send love to my CNN colleague Rene Marsh and her husband Kedric Payne. They are suffering the tragic loss of their beautiful little baby boy Blake who lost his courageous battle with pediatric cancer.

He was only 25 months old. Rene posted a note on Instagram saying that Blake taught her a depth of love that she had never experienced. That she is forever changed by him. And that she was blessed to be Blake's mom. Our hearts go out to Rene and Kedric. And Blake, your mommy and daddy love you forever.

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