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Don Lemon Tonight

Derek Chauvin Guilty On All Counts In George Floyd's Death; Reaction To The Chauvin Guilty Verdict. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 20, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): Guilty on all counts. A jury in Minnesota convicting ex-police officer Derek Chauvin of murder and manslaughter in the death of George Floyd last year. Guilty of second- degree unintentional murder which carries a maximum sentence of 40 years. Guilty of third-degree murder, maximum sentence, 25 years, and guilty of second-degree manslaughter, maximum sentence, 10 years. Chauvin will be sentenced in about two months.

Tonight, President Joe Biden calling his conviction a giant step towards justice in America, but saying much more needs to be done. I want to get straight to CNN's Omar Jimenez, live for us in Minneapolis where he's been covering this story now since the very beginning.

Omar, good evening to you. You are in George Floyd square, the site where he was murdered. It's become a memorial. What's it like tonight?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yeah, Don. A lot of today has been celebration, as you can imagine. Right now, in the cold Minneapolis night hours, it is really reflection trying to look back and realize the magnitude of this actual moment.

Here at George Floyd Square, people have been coming in and quietly milling around the central fist that has now become the landmark here for this square, but also when you look down at some of the pictures and the faces that are around, you don't just see George Floyd.

You see faces of previous cases that add to why this moment is so significant. Obviously you see Dr. King's face, but as you go all the way around, you see faces like Daunte Wright. You see faces like Breonna Taylor, Tamir Rice, again, names that make a moment like this so much more significant because in many of these cases, police officers were never even brought to trial, much less proven guilty by any stretch of the means.

And I do want to point out one thing as well as we've seen is that, is part of this reflection, you've seen people of all ages come writing messages. In this case, this child just in subscribing a heart right next to again, this central landmark here. Even others writing messages to George Floyd.

And so, again, during the day and in the immediate aftermath of the verdict, it was a lot of celebration, even some disbelief that this could even be a possibility much less a reality and now tonight the mood is a little bit more somber. The music has stopped and it seems many are reflecting on what this means and what this is going to mean tomorrow post-verdict.

LEMON: Give me your thoughts, Omar, almost a year after this murder took place. You're standing in pretty much exact same place as where you were nearly a year ago.

JIMENEZ: Yeah, Don. I mean, it's pretty surreal. I was just talking to my crew beforehand. It was May 26th, 2020, the day after George Floyd died that my team and I were dispatched out of Chicago. We drove the six hours because we didn't want to fly because of a pandemic. And I stepped out of the car about a block from where I'm standing and then was on air 15 minutes later in this exact spot.

It was the first time even in a pandemic that I had seen a gathering of more than 10 people. And these were people by the hundreds and immediately I got the sense that, all right, what happened here is something that is so much more significant than that video, that awful Facebook video that I had seen the previous night. And you could feel the passion and the energy in that moment.

The main observation I had is that it was a pandemic, but people did not care because they felt that this was much more pressing. And that was the mentality that we saw play out day in and day out over the course of that week, even standing in the face of law enforcement, even when things got violent, people didn't back down.

And one of the activists I actually spoke to today said that he feels the reason that this case was prosecuted as quickly as it was, was because people put pressure on those in power, because people put pressure on those in law enforcement. Because they were fearful of what boots on the ground would actually mean.

[23:05:08]

And then you fast forward to this moment today, like so many others. We were waiting on pins and needles to hear what the verdict would be. There was a quiet that fell over this George Floyd memorial as the judge stepped into the courtroom and began reading those verdicts.

For the people here, they weren't sure which way it was going to go and they weren't sure whether they were going to be crying in anger or crying in happiness. And for us as reporters, we weren't sure which way it was going to go, because we had been told things would be incredibly one way if it was not guilty and incredibly another way if it was guilty.

We saw Derek Chauvin was convicted on all charges and there were tears of joy here. A man next to me broke down because his fear was that just because it was on camera did not guarantee a conviction. He told me about the cases of course, we know recently of Eric Garner, in the past few years, but even more so back to 1992 in Rodney King.

He remembers watching that verdict and seeing how it went poorly in his eyes and comparing it to this one was just a completely different story, Don.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you, Omar. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Now I want to bring in former Democratic Senator from Alabama Doug Jones and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson. Gentlemen, good evening to you. Here we go again covering it, but there's a much different -- the outcome is much different than previous times, most of the previous times, if not all.

Senator Jones, we have seen people of color dying at the hands of police over and over and over again, with no accountability. But today was different. How do you explain that?

FMR. SEN. DOUG JONES (D-AL), CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (on camera): You know, Don, it is, I think, a miracle of media. What we saw in this instance was that this crime was committed on camera. We didn't see that in so many others. It's always a police officer's word against others, including many witnesses. But here we had video evidence.

And I think the prosecutor was spot on in his closing argument when he said the world reacted, everyone reacted with horror when they saw what happened. Everybody thought they knew what happened, and that played out in that courtroom. And I think that this is a real turning point for that reason, but also the fact that we saw the breakdown in that blue wall of silence.

I think this is a turning point for law enforcement. They have had enough and they're going to see from this point on some real changes that need to be made.

LEMON: Do you we'll -- Joey, do you think we'll see a change in policing? Do you think this change in policing is going forward?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (on camera): Look, I really hope so, Don. Good evening to you and the Senator. The bottom line is that we can only wait and see, right. Change comes and it's incremental, but I think we need to recognize, Don, the significance of this moment. So many cases in the past, right? You look at officers, they are not arrested. If they're arrested, they're not indicted. If they're indicted, they're not convicted.

This is a watershed moment. We have an officer, an officer who did some pretty horrific things and who is now being held accountable. There are times of reckoning in our history, and yes, indeed, right? We have to look and we have to use this as a moment, right, not to rest on your laurels, but to build it for something more.

We've heard in the building of something more and the Senator can appreciate this, right. The George Floyd Act, which they want to get through the Senate, right. He was there for that. But the reality is that we're looking at legislative efforts.

But beyond legislative efforts, I think we're looking attitude changes. And one thing that this does is it represented a deterrence because it lets everyone know that everyone will be held accountable. You can't hide behind a badge, you can't hide behind a uniform. And if you do, your own chief may come in and say the sanctity of life is valued.

Someone who worked there for 40 years may come in and say, like Lieutenant Zimmerman, this is not how we do things. So, it remains to be seen where we go from here. We need cultural changes. We need changes in the manner in which we recruit officers, are they from those communities, do they understand the communities. But I think this is a very good step forward with respect to reckoning and letting everyone know, you do something wrong, you're going to be brought to justice. That happened today.

LEMON: One more, Joey, before I get back to Senator Jones. What do you expect of sentencing in what the eight weeks -- begin in eight weeks or so? What are the next steps? And does that include an appeal from Chauvin's legal team as well?

JACKSON: So a lot to unpack with that, Don. I'll be brief in doing so. We're looking at -- what were looking at which are the statutory maximums, right. But they in reality don't bear any relation to reality, why? Because you have these sentencing guidelines that take into account the nature and characteristics of the defendant, the prior history, what, if any, criminal history, what if any other transgressions, that brings it down.

And if you look at the guidelines sentence, everyone will be shocked to learn that it's 12 years. What? But not so fast. Because there's something called aggravating factors. And those aggravating factors, if you engage in them, which the prosecution already filed notice, they're seeking aggravated factors in sentencing.

[23:10:06]

What are they? In the event that you engage in cruel conduct, it's an aggravating factor which allows you to depart from the guidelines in the event that you used your position of authority and abused it to commit a crime, it's an aggravating factor.

So prosecutors had filed notice in that regard, Don. And in that regard, it can elevate the guidelines significantly such that he could be looking at a statutory maximum sentence. So that's to be clear, the judge will make that decision.

Finally, on the other issue in terms of appeal, of course there's always appeals on issues. Should the venue have been changed, should other expert witnesses have been allowed or were they cumulative evidence, was it too prejudicial, should the verdict have been -- not verdict, excuse me -- the settlement have been announced right on the verge of the jury selection and the trial? So many issues that will be appealed.

At the end of the day, even if there is appeal, this was compelling evidence. Prosecutors put the case together. No matter how many appeals, that tape shows what it shows. Chauvin's conduct what it was, and his accountability tonight is absolutely proper under our law. So appeal, if its reverse, they will be tried again, he will be convicted again. Those are the facts. LEMON: Alright. Senator Jones, I see you shaking your ahead in

agreement. I want your respond to that, but let me put this up. Because I think this will be in your response as well. Merrick Garland releasing a statement tonight saying I know that nothing can fill the void that the loved ones of George Floyd have felt since his death.

The Justice Department has previously announced a federal civil rights investigation to the death of George Floyd. This investigation is ongoing. So, shaking your head in agreement with Joey, but what is happening behind the scenes as well?

JONES: Absolutely. I think behind the scenes -- number one, they are getting ready for sentencing. I think the prosecutors are already moving. But, you know, you got three other officers that are also charged. And that trial is going to come up relatively soon, in a couple months.

I think, they are getting ready for that trial, those are going to be different standards and they're looking at that, but they're going to be ready for sentencing and I do think that there's going to be two things happening with the Department of Justice.

Number one a civil rights investigation that will involve the conduct of all of these officers. But all also, I think that the administration has kind of held back just a little bit on the law enforcement reform measures that I think President Biden wants so badly to get accomplished in his administration. I think it would had been a little bit improper to -- not improper, but it was certainly it would have been the right thing to do in the middle of this trial.

Now that the trial is over, I think it's a way to reach out to both law enforcement, their unions, and others and people across this country. People are breathing a sigh of relief. People are looking and saying, yes, we saw it happen in front of our own eyes and now we need to do something about it.

So, I think you're going to see the Department of Justice -- hopefully Department of Justice leading the effort for the reform, not only from the administration, but also helping and (inaudible) finding that common ground necessary in the United States Senate to try to get that George Floyd policing act passed into law.

LEMON: Doug Jones, Joey Jackson, gentlemen, thank you so much. I appreciate that.

In the wake of the murder verdict, I just want to show you -- pay close attention to this, OK? It's very important. This is the original press release put out by the Minneapolis Police Department right after George Floyd's death. It's tilted. Excuse me. It's titled -- excuse me. You can say that.

But it's titled here, man dies after medical incident during police interaction. It says the man resisted police and that officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and noted he appeared to be suffering medical distress. It goes on to say that he was transported to a hospital where he died, that no officers were injured in the incident, and that body cameras were activated.

But there's a lot in that press release, OK, as well that talked about, you know, him sitting on the car and all these things that just didn't appear to be in the video. Didn't appear to happen. What the press release doesn't say is that while pinned to the ground, George Floyd pleaded with police officers that he could not breathe, nor does it say that ex-officer Chauvin kneeled on his neck for nearly 9.5 minutes until he stopped breathing. It wasn't a medical incident. It was a murder.

I want to bring in now the former captain of the Missouri State Highway Patrol, Ron Johnson, who was tasked with restoring peace in Ferguson after Michael Brown's death. Captain, thank you so much. So that initial police report, it doesn't begin to tell the story here. There's no mention of a knee on the neck or any use of force.

If not for bystander video, we never would have seen the verdict, I believe that, we saw today if you look at that report. Doesn't that show why so many people don't trust the police and maybe why the initial reports from police are to be questioned?

RET. CAPT. RON JOHNSON, FORMER INCIDENT COMMANDER IN FERGUSON MISSOURI (on camera): I agree with you. The transparency needs to start from the beginning. It can't just start when someone shows you a video or someone's there watching. So transparency has to be like no one's watching. What will you do when no one is watching? So that's how we're going to gain trust.

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LEMON: There were other officers there. They didn't intervene to stop Chauvin. What is it going to take to change the culture of the silence among officers known as a blue wall of silence?

JOHNSON: Well, I think this is an opportunity to change that and change minds and send a strong message to all people in law enforcement that you have a responsibility. It's about leadership, and each of us and each person in law enforcement has to stand as a leader in that moment and take charge.

And that you have to see people as you see yourself. And when you come in contact with someone or your fellow officer, you have an obligation. That is a part of your job. That is a part of what you need to do to preserve safety for everyone, and humanity, and uphold the creed that you sworn to.

LEMON: What's the effect of this verdict on policing in America?

JOHNSON: Well, I think this is a new opportunity. I think leaders in law enforcement starting tomorrow need to bring their troops in and have a conversation with them, an open and honest conversation. A conversation that is strong and intentional. And I think that if we take this opportunity, we can create change. But we got to do training. We can't continue to check the box, training, and we can't say, you know what, that's not who we are. Until it happens and then we come up with solutions and things like

that. But I think we've got to just be stronger leaders, and I think it's up to those chiefs and those leaders that are heading those departments to take a strong stance.

LEMON: What do you say to members of the police department who say, well, we can't do our jobs right now? We're being hindered now. This verdict puts our jobs in jeopardy. People don't understand what we go throughout as we are policing and what we have to go through just in order to do our jobs every single day.

JOHNSON: I think the public does understand that it is a tough job. When we're under stress, we call a policeman. But we also want you to be fair to everybody that you encounter. And if treating people with humanity makes your job tough, then I would say that you're in the wrong profession.

LEMON: We have a statement, you mentioned the chiefs and they should gather their folks together and talk about policing. This is from the Minneapolis Chief of Police Medaria Arradondo. And here's what he says. He said, quote, I would like to thank the men and women of the Minneapolis Police Department as well as their families.

This past year has been difficult and challenging. Yet they have continued to show up and serve our community with the respect and dignity they deserve. What do incidents like this do to good officers who are doing the right thing?

JOHNSON: I think the good officers need to stand strong and know that that doesn't define them. And I think that's what the police department said there, is that the many that testified in court, that this is not who we are. And I think they need to unite and stand strong.

And I think the chief's words to them are important, meaningful. But those that don't uphold that standard, we need to make sure that we rid them from this profession.

LEMON: When you saw the ex-officer Derek Chauvin being led away in handcuffs, what were your thoughts?

JOHNSON: You know, my mother always had this saying that it's an Amen moment. This was an Amen moment for me and I think it was an Amen moment for America. I think justice was served for that family, but I also saw it as a chance for America to take a different stance.

And I think we saw that in this trial that this country came together in an inclusive way that we have not seen at any other case that we've had like this. And so I think it's an opportunity that shows when we're united as a country and we're inclusive and everyone sees wrong and know that humanity is what we stand for, that we can move forward.

LEMON: Captain Johnson, thank you so much. I appreciate your time.

JOHNSON: Thank you. LEMON: Finally, justice for George Floyd's family. His brother,

Philonise tells me tonight how his family is reacting. That as people in the community are celebrating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(PEOPLE CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[23:20:00]

LEMON (on camera): The whole country reacting to the guilty verdict in it trial of the ex-officer who killed George Floyd. And for the Floyd family, tonight is a night of celebration after a year of anguish. I spoke earlier with George Floyd's brother, Philonise, and attorney Ben Crump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILONISE FLOYD, GEORGE FLOYD'S BROTHER: Oh, man, it was just so much of a relief, Don. Just constant nights of me just being up, constantly getting three or four hours of sleep. But today, I will get that time of sleep, because I will stay up and I will celebrate because to me this is a day of celebration. I'm happy, man. I'm really happy.

LEMON: Listen, I want to take you back to the courtroom, if will allow me, because this verdict, as you know, is historic. What was it like for you to be there?

FLOYD: Oh, it was one of the times that I actually panicked. I was walking back and forth, pacing back and forth, man. Attorney Crump, it's like, hey, just do whatever you need to do to be comfortable. And I did. And when I had to go to that courtroom, I sat in there 30 minutes before the jurors came out and the judge came out, but the entire time I prayed for the entire verdict (inaudible).

LEMON: What was that 30 minutes like?

[23:25:00]

FLOYD: Oh, man. It was like an eternity. But all I could know is in my mind I seen George, I see my lord and savior just talking to me, and all I heard was guilty, guilty, and guilty. I was extremely excited. Words cannot describe -- because African-Americans, we don't get justice. We just think it's just us. It was such a beautiful day, historic.

So many African-Americans, just period, people of color, people all around this nation, they all celebrated because one thing they can always say is, justice for George, it means freedom for all, because there have been times that you'll be worried, like, what will I have to do when I get pulled over? You think about so many things. The world has sparked and lit up with a blaze tonight, and it's a celebration. (Inaudible) taking here tomorrow, but now is a celebration today.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR THE FAMILY OF GEORGE FLOYD: Hopefully that this is new precedent in America where marginalized minorities especially, Black people, Don Lemon, that we can get full justice, not just partial justice, not just civil justice under the seventh amendment, which we control and be denied justice under the tenth amendment, which the prosecutors control. Where Keith Ellison and his amazing lawyers did, they said no, no, we too are American citizens and we too deserve full justice and we should expect it.

(END VOICE CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): I want to bring in now Andrea Jenkins, she is the vice president of the Minneapolis City Council. Andrea, thank you so much. How are you doing?

ANDREA JENKINS, VICE PRESIDENT, MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCIL (on camera): Good evening, Don. How are you?

LEMON: I'm doing very well. Your district includes a street corner where George Floyd was murdered. The community has been through so much in the last year. Give me your feelings and what are you hearing from your constituents tonight, Andrea?

JENKINS: Well, you know, Don, I do want to just say from my heart and my hand to the Floyd family and all of the relatives and supporters, I know that this verdict is not and will not ease their pain and take away their anguish and their anger, but it is -- it is a step towards justice. It is a step towards equity. And so I hope they're able to find some solace in these verdicts tonight.

You know, the community is really, I think, celebrating tonight, as Philonise just talked about. And you know, again, just going back to the family, I really want to just thank them for how supportive they have been of this particular community. They pledged support for some of the businesses in the area.

The city has pledged support in the area of forgivable loans to some of those businesses. And so I just want to thank them for that. But people are taking a moment to celebrate tonight and I think the community is really going to continue to press and push for justice and equality for all people.

LEMON: The mayor of nearby Brooklyn Center telling CNN that Minnesota is a place where it isn't safe to be Black. What do you think needs to happen to -- if you agree with that statement, and you can tell me if you agree or disagree, but what do you think needs to be allowed to happen for the community to trust the police?

JENKINS: Well, if we're being honest -- and I know Mayor Elliott. You know, America is not safe, if you're Black. And so, you know, there are issues, there are challenges, there are deep, systemic problems you know, in Minneapolis and in Minnesota. But I don't think we're unique from other parts of the country. You know, that said, you know, in terms of public safety, we need to completely reimagine what public safety is like in our communities. We need to, you know, end qualified immunity. We need to have

community involvement and oversight over the police.

[23:30:00]

JENKINS: We have -- my colleagues on the Minneapolis City Council have, you know, moving forward a charter amendment to rethink our public safety and actually end the police department and include it in a department of public safety that will also include crime prevention strategies, strategies to have unarmed responses to mental health crises, to traffic stops, et cetera.

And so we need to work as a community and as a society together to reimagine public safety and go beyond that to reimagine our society, really, because much of what the problems are in our society, you know, police brutality is a symptom of that and it's a mechanism to uphold the challenges in our society, the economic disparities that are plaguing our society. So we need to reshape and rethink how we are living together in this country.

LEMON: Well, Andrea, I want to thank you. The members of your community have been so affected by this, the bystanders, the jury, and so on. I mean, just -- the witnesses, everything.

JENKINS: The witnesses, I just want to thank them so much for their bravery, for their courage, for their -- for their witness and really make sure that are -- they know that there are mental health supports out there, that there are other supports to help them to get through these really challenging times. I thank them so much for their bravery.

LEMON: Yeah. I think today's verdict will be -- will help to facilitate some of that healing. It's not over yet but, as you said, there's help that they can get, that they can use. But I think this will -- this will help them get there. Thank you, Andrea Jenkins. I appreciate it. You be well.

JENKINS: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you.

JENKINS: Have a great night.

LEMON: A pivotal moment for racial justice in America but there is still a whole lot of progress that needs to be made. Where we go from here? That's next.

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[23:35:00]

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LEMON: Tonight, President Joe Biden calling Derek Chauvin's murder conviction in George Floyd's death a giant step towards justice in America, but saying so much more needs to be done, and calling systemic racism a stain on the nation's soul.

Former President Barack Obama also putting out a statement saying true justice requires that we come to terms with the fact that Black Americans are treated differently, every day. It requires us to recognize that millions of our friends, family, and fellow citizens live in fear that their next encounter with law enforcement could be their last.

And it requires us to do the sometimes thankless, often difficult, but always necessary work of making the America we know more like the America we believe in.

Joining me now is Cornel West, professor of public -- philosophy at Harvard University. Good evening, professor. How are you doing?

CORNEL WEST, PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC PHILOSOPHY, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: How are you doing, my dear brother? I was just thinking of the mighty dells of Chicago. They say, oh, what a night. What a night brother.

LEMON: Yeah.

WEST: Historical, monumental.

LEMON: Well, what you got to say about the verdict?

WEST: Well, you know, it was a people's victory. It's very important to keep in mind that it was a people (INAUDIBLE) in the street. It was sharp lawyers, Brother Ben -- Brother Ben is a living legend. Brother Keith, strong, brought his team together.

But at the center of it was a black love. It was -- it was the Floyd family. What I mean by that is what you said about Philonise is so true. And what you said about his siblings, that they set the tone, they set the atmosphere. And it was their grace, it was their nobility, it was their integrity, it was their willingness not to engage in hatred and contempt that set the whole atmosphere.

That's the legacy of (INAUDIBLE), George Floyd that we were talking before, coming right out of the rich Third Ward, rich in spirit. The Third Ward, the so-called ghetto hood in Houston.

And that kind of black love shaped their souls in such a way that they could be determined and to stand with the dignity that they had in order to say we are going to fight in a principled way, and they then embraced and lured so many of all different colors to say get on this love train, get on this justice train, we're going to make sure that this policeman who committed a public lynching goes to jail.

Now, keep in mind now, brother, it's a very low expectation. You know what I mean? If the world sees a public lynching and they decide that it's wrong and they send a policeman to jail, that's one plus one equals two. That's just basic.

But for so long, one plus one equals zero when it comes to the criminal justice system -- criminal justice system for Black people. So our expectation is so low that we do celebrate tears of joy. But if we don't have the same determination, the same dignity, the same grace, the same willingness to serve and sacrifice that we see in the Floyd family for each and every case -- this is just the first of thousands of convictions that need to take place. This is the peak of an iceberg, my brother. You know it and I know it.

[23:39:56]

LEMON: Professor, I've heard people say, well, I don't understand what all the celebration was about and the press conference and everybody talking and speaking. You're speaking to that now. Talk --

WEST: Absolutely.

LEMON: Go on.

WEST: Absolutely. Because, for example, if it were on the vanilla side of town and they live in the black supremacist world and white folk had been enslaved for 244 years and lynched every two and a half days for 50 years and snatched out of their cars and shot down, when, in fact, there was a victory in a black supremacist system, the white folk would celebrate and rightly so. We're talking about morality.

We live in a white supremacist civilization that continues to be chronic and systemic and refuses to treat us as human beings. When we get treated by human beings by a criminal justice system, we celebrate for a moment because we got to refortify, because this is a system.

The fundamental question here -- this is a question for Brother Biden because this is very important. See, Biden himself, you remember now, November 18th, 1994, he's the one talking about predators. He's the one talking about they're beyond rehabilitation. He's one talking about throw them in jail and throws away the key. But that cheapens black life. That's 1994.

He's talking about brothers that look like me, like you, and like Brother George. You say, oh, Biden, I see you changed. I believe people change. I'm a Christian now. Everybody got a capacity to change. LBJ changed from white supremacist out of Jim Crow Texas to a force against white supremacy.

Let us see the degree to which Biden has actually changed. He was cheapening black lives from 1994 when he bragged about being the architect of the mass incarceration regime to win an election. He's changed now, beautiful. Let's see if he executes on the ground. You got to use your bully pulpit the way you used them wonderfully today, the way Sister Harris used it wonderfully today. It can't just be pretty words, though.

LEMON: That's what --

WEST: If this system -- if this system is beyond reform, if it's incapable of reform, then this is just an isolated moment of joy, and we right back to business as usual and the politicians are right back tied to Wall Street, Pentagon, drones, and turning their back to the suffering of poor Black people and poor people around the country.

LEMON: So --

WEST: That's the challenge that we're talking about, my brother.

LEMON: I'm not trying to cut you off. I just wanted to play what they said today, what the president and vice president said. No, no, no. I wanted to play to fortify what you're saying, what the president and vice president said today because that's what you were talking about and then let you finish on the other side.

WEST: Absolutely.

LEMON (on camera): Here it is. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The murder of George Floyd launched a summer of protest we hadn't seen since the civil rights era in the '60s. Protests that unified people of every race and generation with peace and with purpose to say enough, enough, enough of these senseless killings. Today, today's verdict is a step forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So there you go. We don't have the vice president in that. Pardon me for that. But a step forward, is it always going to take a video to get justice, professor?

WEST: Again, we thank god for Darnella. She's one of the people, crucial people. She made this case what it was. Without her, it would be just another precious, beautiful Black man publicly lynched. And you read the police report.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

WEST: Can you imagine that police report?

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

WEST: Deodorize, sanitize, sterilize, lying about a precious child of god, Brother George. Thank God, Darnella was there. And so we have to keep the pressure on Brother Biden and Sister Harris. Sister Harris's words were quite strong today as well.

She said that racism is a problem and it's more than a problem. It's a catastrophe. We should not confuse the catastrophic with the problematic. We don't have a race problem. We got a catastrophe visited on Black people, catastrophe visited on indigenous people, catastrophe visited on brown and Asians. The question is how do we fortify ourselves? That's where the love comes in. That's where the joy comes in.

Never forget, Don, any justice that's only justice soon degenerates into something less than justice. You got to have deep love, deep care, deep concern, and you got to have deep joy to sustain you in struggle or you end up a (INAUDIBLE) rather than a long-distance runner in the struggle for truth and justice.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

WEST: This is what we understand from our tradition of Black people and that's why the music is so important, that's why the spirit is so important, and then the intellect, the vision, the courage, and the willingness to sacrifice and serve the least of way.

[23:45:00]

LEMON: Did you --

WEST: So we do want to celebrate and we want to salute the nobility of the Floyd family as we move now to the Wright family, the Taylor family, Breonna, and all of us coming together across race and across national boundaries. This is an international issue.

LEMON: And the dignity --

WEST: There's a new album coming out, brother, called "Welcome 2 America."

(LAUGHTER)

WEST: I was listening to it yesterday.

(LAUGHTER)

WEST: He said (INAUDIBLE). He said I think I am. I'll go in the studio and show you.

(LAUGHTER)

WEST: And he came out of the studio, "Welcome 2 America" (INAUDIBLE) Minneapolis, the greatest genius coming out of Minneapolis, greatest genius of his generation. And he (INAUDIBLE) spirit, (INAUDIBLE) spirit, Nina Simone spirit, John Coltrane spirit, all of it is here because --

LEMON: Professor --

WEST: -- it's the legacy of a great people that's trying to hold up --

LEMON: You are --

WEST: -- in a white supremacist civilization that don't want --

LEMON: You are on one tonight, professor.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you. Listen, you talked about the humanity of everyone involved, certainly the Floyd family and for the people who took the video and stood by. Here's what Keith Ellison said. I'm going to let you go. But here is what he said. They stopped and they raised their voices

and they even challenged authority because they saw his humanity. They stopped and they raised their voices because they knew what they were seeing was wrong.

Professor, thank you. Good night. Good evening to you.

WEST: Thank you so much, my brother.

LEMON: Absolutely. George Floyd finally getting justice. But the other Black families who have lost loved ones to police killings are still waiting for justice of their own, as the professor just mentioned.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON: We're back now with our live continuing coverage of the Chauvin -- Derek Chauvin's conviction in the George Floyd murder trial.

Joining me now are CNN political commentators Bakari Sellers and Mitch Landrieu. Gentlemen, thank you for your time. Good evening. Mayor, the relief around the country is palpable, but will it always be short- lived because the funeral for Daunte Wright is Thursday?

MITCH LANDRIEU, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER NEW ORLEANS MAYOR: Well, it could be. But I thought you are my friend. Don't ever put me on after the great and inimitable Dr. Cornel West. He is unbelievable. I'll say this about it. You know, I was so relieved because it was the right verdict.

But I was also very sad because George Floyd is dead. Very angry because Daunte Wright -- and while the verdict was being read, a young girl of color, 13 years old, was killed in another police-involved episode in Columbus.

And you can remain hopeful, but there is a long way between the words spoken by the president, which I thought were good, when he said systemic racism is a stain on the soul of the nation. And actually making this real, making the change real. That's going take a lot of time, a lot of effort, the commitment of every police officer and every citizen in this country. Unless that is done, I think Dr. West's words are very prophetic in this notion.

We have a lot of work to do in this country because systemic racism has infected us all. It's been a real problem. And the big question is, do black lives matter? Today, it did. But I think there is good evidence that that's not necessarily true throughout the country. Unless we make that real and our deeds follow our words, we have a ways to go.

LEMON: Bakari, the original police report never even mentioned the use of force. That's a problem with the whole system, not one man. But in the case of Daunte Wright, they released the body camera footage the very next day. Do you think we're going see more transparency moving forward or is this just one example on TBD, to be determined?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I think it is trust but verify. I think that the pressure that was put on the system, for me, earlier today, I was relieved. You know, it felt like a pressure or weight off of your chest when the verdict was read.

This isn't justice. I am frustrated people are calling it such. This is accountability. Real justice is ensuring that police interact with Black folk in a way that doesn't mean that George Floyd has to die.

And so you're talking about making those changes, making those reforms going forward in releasing and being transparent not lying on incident reports, not lying on press releases. Those require institutionalized- type reforms.

And that's what, you know, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris were talking about today. The United States Congress, in particular the United States Senate has to pass the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act or else, all the excitement that we had, all the exhalation that we had will be in vain because there won't be real reform. There won't be real policy change, which is what is needed to actually save Black lives.

LEMON: Yeah. So many people, mayor, white people woke up to the death of racial injustice after watching this video of George Floyd. Do you think that's enduring?

LANDRIEU: I think it should be, but many, many times in America, even under these difficult circumstances, we continue to look away. And I just think that we can't look away from this anymore. We will if we can, but we shouldn't.

This time, what Bakari said was absolutely correct. I hope they pass the George Floyd Policing Act. But at the same time, they also have to put the resources behind it, and then that has to move to the ground.

So, Don, I'm reading your book right now, which is fantastic. You talk about policy, policing, and prosecution. This goes into who we hire to be police officers, how we train them, how we supervise them, how and when and if they're held accountable, the release of body cam.

[23:55:04]

LANDRIEU: All of these things are critically important to executing this new policy that we talk about because without that, it doesn't matter. Bakari is lawyer. I'm a lawyer. Both of us can tell you that the young men across America of color who get convicted on much less evidence for much more -- less serious crimes and much more time than what happened with Derek Chauvin.

So yes, I'm thankful that the system seemed to have work this time. But did it require the footage that people saw? What happens when nobody is there to see it? What's the system do for similarly situated people when nobody else is looking? That's the test. When people are treated based on their behavior, not the color of their skin when nobody is looking. That's when we'll start to get to the right place.

LEMON: That's got to be the last word, unfortunately. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. We have much, much more on our live breaking coverage of the guilty verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial just ahead. I'll be right back with Chris Cuomo.

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