Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
Officer Fanone Speaks Out; President Biden To Address Congress On His 100th Day In Office; Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-MA) Is Interviewed About What She Expects To Hear From President Biden Tomorrow. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 27, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): Thank you for watching. The big show, "CNN TONIGHT," with the big star, D. Lemon, right now. In this country --
(CROSSTALK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Good evening -- sorry, sir. I'm sorry.
CUOMO: You were just going to move right by me, huh?
LEMON: I step --
CUOMO: Is that what happens when you're out in L.A.?
LEMON: No. There was a -- I had a little hiccup --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: You just go in Hollywood right away.
LEMON: I had a little hiccup in my ear, I'm sorry. But don't be telling my business? Nobody knows. Why don't you have to rat me out, brother.
CUOMO: Listen, I like that you move all over the place, you know.
LEMON: You know, I got to tell you, this is my first real trip is coming out here. I came out here for work but it's interesting to see, especially in the time that I've been here in such a sunny place where people are outside, to see the whole -- the president and the CDC relax the mask mandates. People are ready to take them off --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Their deaths are down 90 percent.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Where you are. But I have to tell you. LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: There's a theme of being straight. The CDC guidelines, good, not great, either the vaccine makes you immune or it doesn't. That's what the data suggested. That's what the science suggested. That's why we get our kids vaccinated. Because it's not, vaccinate them and then just be careful around people with the mumps or rubella. It's that you're immune.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: Does this work that way or no? They suggested yes, but that's not what these guidelines do. North Carolina, be straight. Don't get angry at us for having to piece this together like a puzzle. This is on the authorities and a law I've never heard of, and I can't believe the state and now we'll see the feds can't expedite things.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Maricopa, Arizona, be straight. Don't recount votes in private with some group called cyber ninjas whose web site looks like my 15- year-old made it in 15 minutes.
LEMON: I think Maya would have done a better job than that.
CUOMO: People have to be straight.
LEMON: Because he's actually I've seen him.
CUOMO: Mario is a smart kid.
LEMON: Yes. I've seen him on the cell phone and the things that he can do. I think he's smart. Yes. But you're right about -- it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. But let me say this one thing about transparency, a couple things about transparency.
Transparency when it comes to masks, I agree. If you're going to get a vaccine then you know, something is got to give. Why are you getting it, right? If you can't relax some of the guidelines and not have to wear masks everywhere. Especially when I'm out -- look, the only way that I lose weight and you know that because I like to eat, is if I run. Is if I run. And when I'm out running or doing something, trying to exercise to stay healthy it's tough to do that --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Well, now you can do it without --
LEMON: -- while wearing a mask all the time. And I used to do it and then when I wasn't around someone, you know, I would take the thing and then pull it down and then when I got near people, I'd put it back up.
CUOMO: But now you can run without the mask because you're vaccinated.
LEMON: But the thing is that if the former guy and others who are vaccine hesitant, and I know there are some reasons for it, pregnant women, OK, fine, but for people just to say I don't want to take it for no good reason because the former guy says they should know because they believe it was a hoax as he said, that's ridiculous.
That's actually stopping people from being able to relax other guidelines and the mask guidelines because you're not vaccinated. So I don't want you around one of my loved ones or anyone who may have a pre-existing condition because you just don't want to do it. Have some good reason other than you just don't want to do it because you make it worse for all of us.
That's what I'll say about that transparency. The other transparency is as I said last night, if you -- if you want to exonerate a police officer's actions or anyone's actions, release the videotape. As you said, make all the officers in this country wear body-worn cameras. Right? So that we have a record.
There's transparency. No matter what the police account or whoever's initial account is that nobody happened to see because there wasn't a camera, it won't matter if there is a camera because in the end the truth will prevail because there is transparency.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: That's it.
CUOMO: They used to have arguments about how it would chill policing and things can be taken out of context. The time for those debates has ended.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: We need it. Transparency is trust.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And trust is what allows people to accept truth.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And they are creating this problem in North Carolina, not us. I will not accept it. I've had people on radio, on social media suggest, well, the media, you keep talking about all the bad cases, talk about the good cases.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: No. Because when people die it's a problem.
LEMON: It is.
CUOMO: And I don't need to show you cases where police do the job the right way. They do the job the right way all the time. But not every time.
LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: And this is -- I've never seen anything like this, Don.
LEMON: Well, I've got a time --
CUOMO: I've never seen anything like this law in North Carolina being exercised as it is.
[22:05:04]
LEMON: There is something I want to get to because there is a time, one of the many times when officers did something right and they stood up for this country and that's going to be my first guest on this program. A hero who's quite frankly in the interest of transparency, his body-worn camera from January 6th should be released. I haven't seen a good reason why it has not been released.
And according to him and the police department and the mayor's office for some reason they won't release it. So I think we should hold them to account as well. I'm going to get to it because it's a very important interview. I know that you usually get out of here and you go do your -- but I want you to listen to this.
If you can watch it on your cell phone, if you can listen to it on Sirius in your car on the way home, I really want you to pay attention to this because I think you and I will be talking about --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I will stay right in the office and I will watch it and I will text you right after. I love you, D. Lemon. Thank you for getting --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON (on camera): I love you too. I love you more. Thank you very much.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
And you guys know, I'm always -- I'm always very frank with you and it's very personal. And I want to talk to you tonight about something that's very personal to me, about someone that I've gotten to know and really respect a lot, a lot. The more I've talked to him and the more we've talked, we've talked many, many times now for the past couple of months, the more I respect the guy.
He is a true American hero. And when you hear his story, I think that you're going to feel the same way. OK? So, I want you to listen up. This is something that you don't want to miss. Remember this man. This man is the officer who had a message for the insurrectionists, who tried to save him after others tried to kill him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL FANONE, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: A lot of people have asked me, you know, my thoughts on the individuals in the crowd that, you know, that helped me or tried to offer some assistance. And I think kind of the conclusion I've come to is like you know, thank you, but (muted) you for being there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): He speaks his mind and that's what I like about him. D.C. Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Fanone is here tonight. And I just want to thank him. I want to thank you for speaking out, Michael, speaking out in this his first in-depth interview about what he went through on one of the darkest days in American history. And that was January 6th.
The day that pro-Trump rioters tried to take over our capitol. The seat of our democracy. The day they beat brave police officers like Mike Fanone to within an inch of their lives as they fought to protect the United States Capitol for all of us.
So here he is on video. You see him in the crowd trying to defend the doorway to the west entrance of the capitol as the out-of-control crowd surged all around him. He was dragged out, beaten, tasered, stunned, injured, knocked unconscious.
For a long time, Officer Fanone has wanted to tell the full story of what happened that day. I first spoke with him just days after the insurrection. And like I said, I've gotten to know him. He is a good man. He is a great human being. He's a regular guy, someone who was carrying out his oath as a police officer, risking his life to protect and serve while rioters stormed our capitol.
And tomorrow night the President of the United States, Joe Biden, will be at the capitol at the scene of the crime delivering his first joint address to Congress in the room where rioters, would-be insurrectionists, tried to keep him from becoming president.
In a moment, my exclusive interview with Officer Fanone. But I want to take you back to that terrible day at the capitol for him and his fellow officers.
Here's CNN's Jessica Schneider.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The crowd descending on the capitol grounds January 6th was something no one was prepared for. Capitol police quickly overwhelmed. As protesters pushed through the barricades that encircled the grounds.
UNKNOWN: Back off.
SCHNEIDER: Soon the situation spiraled out of control.
DANIEL HODGES, POLICE OFFICER, METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: Someone managed to hook his thumb in my eye and started gouging at it. Thankfully I was able to shake him before he did any permanent damage. We were fighting tooth and nail.
UNKNOWN: The terrorists there on the 6th were there to cause harm. And they came prepared for a fight. They hurt us physically and emotionally.
SCHNEIDER: The violent attack on the capitol was a scene that Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Fanone was never even supposed to be in the midst of. The 40-year-old veteran of D.C.'s police force works narcotics. But when the radio calls went out that rioters were overtaking the capitol --
UNKNOWN: We've been flanked and we lost the line.
SCHNEIDER: -- Officer Fanone and his police partner put their uniforms on and moved in. But soon Fanone was surrounded by rioters who sprayed him with chemicals, battered him with pipes and batons. Fanone even got tased multiple times.
FANONE: And then some guys started getting hold of my gun and they were screaming out, you know, kill him with his own gun. I just remember yelling out that I have kids. And it seemed to work.
[22:10:02]
SCHNEIDER: Fanone said the crowd then moved in to protect him. But the aftermath of the assault left Fanone unconscious and he was hospitalized for a likely concussion and injuries from the taser. Now four men have been charged in connection with his attack.
The most serious allegations against this man, Buffalo resident Thomas Sibic. Prosecutors say Sibic lied to FBI agents several times but eventually admitted he ripped Fanone's badge and radio off his vest, leaving holes and tears in Fanone's uniform and then buried Fanone's badge in his back yard in Buffalo, eventually digging it up and handing it over to the FBI.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Jessica Schneider, thank you so much. Thomas Sibic by the way is now in jail. He has pleaded not guilty. Another man Danny Rodriguez is also in jail accused of using an electric shock weapon to tase officer Fanone.
And Officer Michael Fanone joins me now. Speaking tonight on his own behalf. Mike, how are you doing? I didn't know I would get this emotional about just talking about your story because when this happened, we weren't friends and now it feels personal to me because we're friends. And I want everyone -- thank you for doing this. What has this been like for you since that day when you think about that day?
FANONE: I mean, it's been a roller coaster, man. It's been up and down. You know, I think probably for about the first two weeks after the 6th I was still, you know, riding pretty high on adrenaline. Shortly thereafter I started to experience some of the, I guess, more psychological injuries. PTSD. Some of the emotional trauma from, you know, from what I experienced that day.
LEMON: Yes. How are you doing? FANONE: I mean, some days are better than others. Today is a good day.
You know, I'm happy that I've got the opportunity to speak out, talk about the events of that day. It's been very difficult seeing elected officials and other individuals, kind of whitewash the events of that day or downplay what happened.
Some of the terminology that was used like hugs and kisses and, you know, very fine people, it's like very different from what I experienced and what my co-workers experienced on the 6th.
LEMON: What did you experience, Michael? Because you know, the former president has said -- and I know you don't want to make this political. But has said, you know, those were good people, they loved their country, they were basically ushered into the capitol, they walked into the capitol, and that it wasn't -- it wasn't a big deal, that they're patriots. What did you experience that day and what do you think of that rhetoric?
FANONE: I think it's dangerous. It is very much not the experience that I had on the 6th. You know, I experienced a group of individuals that were trying to kill me to accomplish, you know, their goal. And I think that -- sorry, Don. Man, I didn't think I'd get this emotional.
Yes, I mean, I experienced the most brutal savage hand-to-hand combat of my entire life, let alone my policing career, which spans almost two decades. It was nothing that I had ever thought would be a part of my law enforcement career and nor was I prepared to experience.
LEMON: Why has it been so tough for you? Was it that day, did that -- did that sort of change any sort of reality for you or any sort of perspective for you to see people who have professed so much love and adoration for law enforcement basically trying to kill you?
FANONE: Yes, I mean, it was difficult -- like again, I think I'm a pretty apolitical person. You know, my preference is -- I look at politics the same way I look at the Olympics.
[22:15:07]
Like I like my politics every four years and only for the month that the election season has taken place. The rest of the time like I don't give a (muted). But I think like as a law enforcement officer, you know, my experience has been policing -- like we've been taking it on the chin for quite a while. And you know, with the previous administration there was like a lot of pandering towards law enforcement. And I was susceptible to that I think like many of my colleagues were.
But I was -- and to have a group of individuals or, you know, someone who espoused to be a law and order official or a law and order president and then experience what I experienced on the 6th which, you know, I believe resulted from the rhetoric that was being used in the, you know, weeks leading up to January 6th. I mean, that was difficult to come to terms with.
LEMON: I want to show this video because we see you, Michael, being beaten, dragged out in this mob of rioters. What do you remember? Do you remember anything from this moment? What were they saying to you, saying to your colleagues, trying to do to you? What do you remember?
FANONE: So, once I was separated from the group of officers that were in the tunnel, I was -- I remember being pulled out into the crowd. I remember experiencing feelings like -- like when you're a kid, you're at the beach, you get knocked down by a wave and then you get knocked down by another wave and you just can't get up. That's what it felt like.
I remember, you know, once I was able to kind of steady myself, get my bearings like I was just surrounded in this sea of people, rioters. And they just started attacking me from all directions. Guys were -- you know, ripped my badge off, ripped my radio off, started grabbing at my firearm, trying to grab ammunition magazines from my belt. It was just -- you know, it was overwhelming. I mean, I felt like they were trying to kill me.
LEMON: You thought you were going to die.
FANONE: I did. I thought that that was a distinct possibility. Yes.
LEMON: Do you remember coming to?
FANONE: But it's amazing like what --
LEMON: Go on. Finish your thought.
FANONE: So, I was conscious -- I'm sorry. I was conscious during that period of time. I remember -- it's amazing like how much information you can process, you know, even in the midst of that amount of chaos. I was -- like I was cognizant of what people were trying to do to me.
The fact that, you know, some individuals were trying to take my gun and I remember thinking -- you know, like identifying specific people in the crowd and thinking like OK, this person is trying to kill me, like I can use deadly force here. And then I remember thinking that, OK, if I do use deadly force against one or two of these individuals there's 15,000 people out here. The likelihood of me surviving by using deadly force is not good.
I think I had talked about previously, you know, it would have provided individuals that were there with the justification that I think they were looking for or had already, you know -- (muted). Sorry.
LEMON: Are you OK? I know it's tough. I know it's tough. And we've talked about this. What do you want to say, Mike?
[22:19:57]
FANONE: You know, 850 MPD officers responded to the capitol to help out their, you know, brothers and sisters at the U.S. capitol police and to protect members of Congress and their staff. And that, you know -- how we managed to make it out of that day without more significant loss of life is a miracle. You know, what I saw in the tunnel, the 147 MPD officers and six U.S.
capitol police officers that defended the west terrace, again, it was the most brutal combat imaginable. It was like, I mean, nothing I had ever seen outside of the movies.
LEMON: Well, let me just say that --
(CROSSTALK)
FANONE: I know it's something I'll never forget.
LEMON: -- we've been talking about transparency a lot. Especially what's happening now in North Carolina and the releasing of body-worn camera video. Officer Fanone had body-worn camera -- was wearing a body-worn camera that day, and so far, they won't release the video. We're going to talk about that and much, much more with Officer Michael Fanone right after this. We'll be right back.
[22:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): We're back now with D.C. Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Fanone. He's one of the heroes who was brutally assaulted protecting our capitol on January 6th.
Mike, again, thank you for doing this. I know people -- you're probably not used to sharing your feelings like this in general but especially not with the world. And it's got to be tough for you right now. What do you want to say?
FANONE: I mean, yes, it was tough. It's a difficult experience. And I'm out here speaking, you know, obviously on my own behalf but I understand like who the audience is. I know that there's law enforcement professionals that are out there watching this.
And I know that there are people, you know, people out in the community that are watching this. And it's not often that we get a perspective of, you know, just a rank-and-file police officer. And that's me, man.
I am literally the lowest guy on the totem pole in my department. I want people to understand the significance of January 6th. I want people to understand that, you know, thousands of rioters came to the capitol hell bent on violence and destruction and murder and that 850 MPD officers responded there and really saved the day.
I want people to understand the stories behind those 850 officers. You know, those officers are moms and dads. They're sons and daughters. They have children and families. Yes, I want people to understand that police officers like -- there's no indoctrination for becoming a police officer, like we're just regular people.
You know, I've got kids and baby mamas and I pay child support and I got, you know, car payments and I stress about paying my taxes. You know, the same (muted) everyone the hell else in America. And I just -- I want people to understand that. And what it took to respond there, to risk their lives.
And I want people to understand stories of guys like Ronald Conte, my chief, Ramey Kyle, who's a commander with our department. Commander Robert Glover. You know, these are like real leaders who in a time where leadership is really lacking in law enforcement these are people whose, you know, leadership that day saved countless officers' lives, staff members, congressmen, congresswomen. I mean, they were instrumental in orchestrating a defense of the capitol from scratch.
LEMON: I know that this insurrection has made you think a lot about policing, a violent mob trying to kill you. But you never grabbed your gun. You wanted to de-escalate the whole situation. So, what goes through your mind when you hear of case after case of Black people ending up dead after being stopped by police for small things, small infractions like an expired plate or a counterfeit bill?
I know that you come into contact in your position with lots of people of color for even larger infractions. What do you think about what's going on right now?
FANONE: Yes, I mean, so the first thing is like as a law enforcement officer like I try not to Monday morning quarterback, you know, my co- workers' or colleagues' decisions. But that being said, I mean, there are some, you know -- there are some cases that we're all familiar with.
The, you know, Derek Chauvin trial. Where people -- I just watch it and I'm just like what the (muted) are they doing? Like I can't make sense of that at all. And you know, like I'm someone who's participated in thousands of arrests. And I understand, you know, that most of those individuals didn't want to go to jail, and you know, sometimes force has to be used and force is never going to be optically pleasing.
[22:30:06]
However, I mean, there's some situations that are just cut and dry to me. And that was one of them. And it was wrong.
LEMON: But you said --
(CROSSTALK)
FANONE: But that being said --
LEMON: -- the moment that someone loses their humanity as a police officer they should put up their badge. You told me that.
FANONE: I did. So, I don't think -- first of all, let me like preface this with these were all things that I've been guilty of throughout the course of my career. Like policing is no place for egos. Have I had one? Absolutely.
Policing, you know, you need to maintain -- you need to be able to see people as a human being, whether they're selling crack or, you know, involved in a domestic abuse situation. Like whatever the case may be like you still have to be able to see them as a human being.
And I think like if you can't, you need to take time and like reassess yourself, your career path, and if you make the decision that all right, some people are just, you know, criminals and that's how I'm going to see them then it's time to hang it up and go find a different profession.
LEMON: You have -- you've talked to me a lot about getting to know each other, and we've had a lot of conversations. Do you think more -- a lot of very honest conversations? Do you think more people need to do that right now?
FANONE: Conversation is key. I mean, can't begin to tell you -- the reason that we're sitting here right now, Don, is because you reached out to me a few days after January 6th. And we had that two, two and a half-hour conversation.
Being able to speak to someone like you and I talk who, you know, come from very different backgrounds and have different perspectives on things, you know, are in very different career paths, but I can talk to you and give you my perspective. You can talk to me, give me your perspective. I think we found that we agreed on more things than we disagreed. But the points that we didn't agree on or don't agree on, we don't have to kill each other over it.
LEMON: I agree. Listen, I know that I spoke earlier about the body- worn camera, and I wish that they would release the video so that people could see what happened to you and what happened to other officers because I think that transparency is key.
I want to ask you about your kids. But just a quick comment on that if you will. Do you want them to release your body-worn camera video?
FANONE: Absolutely. I mean, I can't say it in stronger terms. I don't know how you can watch my body-worn camera footage and deny that January 6th was anything other than violent and brutal.
LEMON: You have a beautiful family. Do your four daughters understand that their dad is a hero?
FANONE: Well, first of all, I don't think I'm a hero. I'd never see myself that way. The heroes to me that day were guys like Jimmy Albright, my partner, Jeff Leslie. Guys like Robert Conte, Ramey Kyle, Robert Glover. Those guys were heroes that day. I'm just some (muted) -- now I'm sitting here talking to Don Lemon. But my daughters, I think they're proud of their father. I hope they're proud of their father.
LEMON: We've talked a lot about how words matter. What's the most important thing you want people to know about what happened on January 6th, Mike?
FANONE: The most important thing. Well, January 6th was real. It didn't happen in a (muted) movie studio in California. And a lot of police officers who to me are, you know, some of the most selfless, courageous individuals, almost lost their lives that day. A lot of us are still experiencing the emotional trauma. And some are still grappling with physical injuries as well.
LEMON: Yes.
FANONE: But those 850 MPD officers are heroes.
LEMON: Yes.
[22:35:02]
FANONE: And I know that, you know, acknowledgment has not come swiftly, but thank you from me.
LEMON: Well, they're heroes and you are too, Mike. Thank you, brother. I really appreciate it. I know this was tough for you. I know you've been wanting to do it for a long time. And again, you may not think you're a hero, but you are. The nation does. The world does. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your friendship.
FANONE: I appreciate that, Don. Thank you, buddy. I love you.
LEMON: Love you as well.
A lot of people like to talk you know what. That guy walks the walk. And we should all be grateful for police officers like him. Those are the kinds of police officers we need on the force. Mike Fanone. Thank you, sir.
And having said that, the president is going to address Congress tomorrow night. He's going to be speaking at the capitol right where the insurrection happened. And the capitol police and metro police will be on duty again, protecting the seat of our democracy. Stay with us.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): Officer Michael Fanone describing to me his harrowing experience fighting for his life and fighting to stop capitol insurrectionists on January 6th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FANONE: I mean, I experienced the most brutal, savage hand-to-hand combat of my entire life, let alone my policing career, which spans almost two decades.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): In less than 24 hours, President Biden will give an address from the inside of the building where Officer Fanone fought to defend.
So, I want to bring in now CNN's senior political correspondent Abby Phillip. Abby, good evening. I appreciate you joining us to talk about this. I thought it was an important conversation. I hope everybody got
something out of it and they thought it was important enough as well to watch it.
So, you heard the officer. It's been nearly four months since the insurrection, but the wounds from that day still incredibly raw. And we expect that President Joe Biden will address them tomorrow when he speaks to Congress.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And I think that -- first of all, Don, an incredible interview that is really important at a time when he I think a lot of people are out here wanting to change the narrative about what happened by denying the reality of what happened on January 6th.
But I think as it relates to Joe Biden, we should remember that his inauguration speech where he really tried to appeal to a sense of national unity, he called for the other side, the other party to basically come back to sanity in some ways.
And you can't miss that in that time between then and now. It seems as though that call for a return to sanity has been largely rejected. And so, it will be interesting to see where Joe Biden takes it next.
He's been very focused from a policy perspective on what he wants to accomplish, but these partisan divides and frankly, the strain of anti-Democratic, you know, fervor that is on the right now is something that is still out there. And it hasn't gotten any better.
In fact, perhaps I think a lot more people are sympathetic to the idea that there was something behind what these rioters were rioting about. And that's a really, I think -- that should be a little bit concerning to a lot of people who care about this country and care about, you know, law and order and democracy and don't want to see insurrections happening because people don't like the results of an election.
LEMON: Listen, Abby, I know we don't have sort of a draft of the speech and I know you don't have a crystal ball.
PHILLIP: Yes.
LEMON: But, you know, he will be talking about the riot at the scene of the crime, right?
PHILLIP: Yes.
What do you think we're going to hear from him? Do you think he's going to set the record straight about this big lie?
PHILLIP: In some ways I would be surprised if he didn't talk about the fact that he's standing on a crime scene, that what happened there just months ago was something so shocking that I think a lot of people thought they would never see that in the history of this country.
And you know, I don't know, Don, to be honest whether he's going to really lean into what happened on January 6th. But I think it's impossible to ignore it. It's impossible to paper over it. And a lot of the people who are going to be watching him might very well be people who participated in the big lie that led to it.
So that's part of the reality of governing in this, you know, in 2021 for Joe Biden. It's one of the reasons that his agenda is having a hard time moving forward. It's not just for policy reasons. It's because there are a lot of people in Congress who are still beholden to the big lie. And in some ways, I could see him addressing that.
But I also wonder if President Biden and others in the White House believe that there's really not much utility in doing that, given that, you know, Republicans are not willing to hear it, it only kind of riles up these -- the animosity that they have toward the other political party. I think there's been a desire among many in the White House to simply leave the partisan politics to others and deal with the governance issues.
[22:45:05]
LEMON: Yes. And get their agenda across and moving.
PHILLIP: Yes.
LEMON: Officer Fanone is really upset with Republican officials. He spoke about it. The ones who are trying to whitewash what happened even though they were there. The Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is even claiming that Trump told him that he would stop the rioters.
It's hard for these officers, but also, it's making it hard for Joe Biden to govern, as you said. So, it's a number of different things there. But you're right, Abby. They're going to be sitting there, many of the people who participated in the big lie, and then said one thing about the insurrection and then voted another way, sitting there looking him right in the face right in front of him dead in the eye.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, look, this is the reality of governing in Washington right now. It's that you know, President Biden is in a position and many -- and all -- and Democrats are in a position where they have to figure out, are they able to work with the opposing party under those circumstances?
And the reality of it has been up until this point they haven't because there hasn't been bipartisan legislation on some of these big issues like COVID relief passed and it's likely that the next agenda item, infrastructure, may not be bipartisan either. So, the answer has really been that they have not been able to work with the other side.
But you know, there are a lot of Democrats out there saying that there's no point in trying to paper over something as fundamental as whether other lawmakers are committed to democracy. And I think that many Democrats feel that way. They'll feel that way tomorrow, especially as they're silting in the chamber with these folks. And the question for Joe Biden is does he take that on head on or does he move on to the substance of what he wants to accomplish.
LEMON: Abby, I know you have a very long day tomorrow and we'll be watching you all day into the evening tomorrow night. So, get your rest. We appreciate you joining us. Thanks so much. We'll see you soon.
PHILLIP: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Thank you. As the nation prepares to hear from the president there is a wave of deadly police violence against people of color. I'm going to ask Congresswoman Ayana Pressley about that -- there she is -- after the break.
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): So, the President of the United States Joe Biden getting ready to address the nation from the exact room where rioters tried to prevent him from becoming president. The insurrection is one of many things the president is set to discuss during his first joint address to Congress tomorrow night.
Joining me now to discuss Democratic Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts. I couldn't be more grateful to have you here and get your perspective on this, Congresswoman. Thank you so much for joining.
So, the president is delivering his first address -- yes. His first address to Congress tomorrow amid the pandemic, on the very scene of this deadly capitol insurrection this capitol attack. What are you going to be listening for?
REP. AYANNA PRESSLEY (D-MA): A bold vision. I'm going to be listening for what he's already demonstrated, which has been a relief after four years of an administration that has been cruel and corrupt and incompetent and had contempt for everyone who calls this country home to have an administration that leads with compassion and empathy. And one that has passed the first federal relief package that makes the sort of bold strides necessary to meet the scale and scope of the crisis.
So, I have been encouraged by the investments that were made in the American rescue plan. I'm going to continue to push for more by executive action, canceling student debt, halting federal executions, and certainly a future, bold, robust relief packages that meet the scale and scope of the crisis and chart a more just path forward.
The Biden/Harris administration has a bold and decisive mandate from the diverse coalition of voters that elected them. They are looking for this administration to move towards bold, systemic, structural policy change. So, I'm going to be listening for that, a vision that gets us there, that's responsive to the needs of the people and responsive to the movement that made their victory possible.
LEMON: And part of that, as he said, is that during his acceptance speech where he said Black Americans, you had my back and now, I'm going to have yours. It has been -- I don't need to tell you -- a brutal time for Black Americans and people who care about police violence when you consider the numerous police shootings of Black Americans, you have Andrew Brown, Jr., you got Daunte Wright and others were just coming off the verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial. What do you expect to hear about that tomorrow?
PRESSLEY: Don, let me just stop for a moment and just be blunt and talk about how we arrived here. Black lives have not mattered. They've not mattered since the very inception of this country, the original sin of slavery. And so, for that reason, because Black lives have not mattered, our humanity has never been seen. That is why our Black children are adultified, that is why our skin color is criminalized, that is why our very existence is criminalized.
The Derek Chauvin verdict of guilty is one example of accountability, not justice, because true justice would mean that George Floyd would you still be here with his family, with his siblings, with his children.
[22:55:06]
But I can't even approximate for you, Don, because Black lives matter just that little. I don't even have the data to accurately capture how many lives have been interrupted and we've been -- that have been stolen from families.
Now, based on my quick assessment, since George Floyd's murder, 100 people have been murdered at the hands of law enforcement. Since the trial, 70 people have been murdered at the hands of law enforcement.
So, what I want to hear from this administration and from all of my colleagues at every level of government is they are committed to passing legislation, they are committed to systemic change that is going to keep Black people and other marginalized, criminalized people alive. And if God forbid, they are murdered at the hands of law enforcement, that they will not just walk away, that they will be held accountable.
And that is why I reintroduced my legislation to end qualified immunity. So, what I know for sure is that no one bill is going to undo centuries of harm. I'm going to be listening for and looking for the political will and the courage and the stamina for the work that is going to be necessary to save lives.
Don, I ran for Congress and have been in public service and doing the work of movement-building because I am committed to the healing and liberation of Black Americans and all marginalized communities, but I can't do the work of healing in liberation if we're not alive.
LEMON: Yes. Congresswoman, thank you for your time. I'm up against the clock at the top of the hour. But as I said in the beginning when I introduced you, thank you. I always appreciate your perspective and we'll have you back. Thank you. I really appreciate it.
PRESSLEY: Thank you.
LEMON: Andrew Brown, Jr.'s family releasing their own independent autopsy report. I'm going to speak with their lawyer after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
