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Don Lemon Tonight

Rep. Gaetz's Buddy Spill Beans Against Him; Gaetz's Camp Denies Sex Allegations; Division, The Thorn to a Nation's Progress; President Biden Selling His American Jobs Plan; Rudy Giuliani's Home Raided by the Feds; Juror Shared His Journey to the Chauvin Trial. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 29, 2021 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Tomorrow night I'm off. The show goes on. The show has grown to the point, thanks to you, where it stays on the schedule whether I'm here or not. And you will have an upgrade in the form of Michael Smerconish, all right? Time for the big show. CNN Tonight with the big star D. Lemon right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: That is definitely an upgrade.

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: Anything would be an upgrade.

CUOMO: True.

LEMON: Why are you indoctrinating Kisha's baby already? We don't want that.

CUOMO: Why?

LEMON: Kisha is a good woman. Her husband is a good man. It's a great family. What are you indoctrinating with that Cuomo Primetime --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Here's why. If we were to give that kid a CNN Tonight onesie, if one existed because nobody would make one, it is telling this kid that you cannot be great, that you must aspire for something less than greatness. By giving the Cuomo Primetime onesie, the kid knows anything is possible. The sky's the limit.

LEMON: No, that's right. Anything is possible. Look, we've had some flukes that over the past four, five years if you don't want to talk --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Don't make me laugh. It makes my toupee move.

LEMON: Yes, you got that toupee cut a little short. Listen, though. All seriousness. CUOMO: Yes, sir.

LEMON: You just had -- is it Pagliery on?

CUOMO: Pagliery.

LEMON: Pagliery. Sorry.

CUOMO: Daily Beast.

LEMON: Because he's been on the show. Sorry. Sorry. Yes. That is some -- that is some bombshell. That is some scoop that he got. And if this proves to be true, trouble, trouble, trouble. Seventeen.

CUOMO: Well, look, the age -- remember, that's a -- that is a strict liability crime, certainly under Florida law, and that is the trigger age for federal law. The problem there in being a defendant is even if you didn't know, even if you believed the age was different and in the age of majority, it doesn't always matter. So, it's a letter that exists, and they have it.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: So, this isn't about what they were told. It's about what they have. The question is, is what is in the letter true? And that's where the work of the investigators has to come in.

LEMON: But you've got to read this Daily Beast story because it is -- it's damning. Again, as I said, if true, because this is -- their reporting -- it's not CNN's reporting, but still, man, the stuff that they have alleged to uncover in here is certainly troubling and could spell something really bad for Matt Gaetz --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I will say this to add to the speculation.

LEMON: Yes, sir.

CUOMO: What does it tell you about the state of mind of somebody who would handwrite a letter that puts all kinds of damning and incriminating information about him and somebody that he knows, matters to the administration, and then sends it to people that he doesn't even really know that well?

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Think about the state of mind of that person.

LEMON: Well, that is a lot of entitlement and a lot of -- I don't know what. I can't even qualify it. I can't even classify it.

CUOMO: It was -- it was risk is what it was --

LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: -- and it speaks to desperation and need. And when people need things and are desperate, they can do a lot of things. They can tell the truth.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: They cannot tell the truth. But this is a big move in the story.

LEMON: And they can make a lot of mistakes. I got a run because I got a lot of breaking news. This, Giuliani, Gaetz, a lot of things to talk about.

CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.

LEMON: I love you too, brother. Thank you. Come on, I always do, I said I talk to you about that onesie. Not good. Bot good. Thank you. See you later.

This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

Breaking news in the investigation of Congressman Matt Gaetz. The Daily Beast reporting the congressman's friend and his wingman, right, wrote a confession letter saying that both he and the congressman paid for sex with several women and a 17-year-old girl.

The letter was part of Joel Greenberg's bid to get a presidential pardon from Trump and sought the assistance of none other than Roger Stone. CNN, as I said, hasn't seen the letter, can't confirm the details in the Daily Beast story. We have reached out to Greenberg's attorney by the way. He said no comment, and he is citing attorney- client privilege.

Now, we also have reached out to the congressman's outside P.R. group. We haven't heard back yet, but here's what they told the Daily Beast, and I quote here. They say, 'Congressman Gaetz has never paid for sex, nor has he had sex with a 17-year-old as an adult.

Politico has reported that Mr. Greenberg's threats to make false accusations against others and while the Daily Beast story contains a lot of confessions from Mr. Greenberg, it does not add anything of substance and certainly no evidence for the wild and false claims about representative Gaetz.

In fact, the story goes some way to showing how Rep. -- goes some way to showing how Rep. Gaetz was long out of touch with Mr. Greenberg and had no interest in involving himself in Mr. Greenberg's affair -- affairs," plural. End of quote there.

So, all of this is happening. So, we have the Gaetz story, and then we have Rudy Giuliani.

[22:04:57]

Rudy Giuliani, as you know, the former president's former lawyer, goes on the Fox propaganda network of course on the day after federal agents executed search warrants to his apartment and his office to try to defend himself by publicly challenging the Justice Department. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYER: I've known about this for two years, Tucker. I could have destroyed the evidence years ago. I didn't destroy the evidence because the evidence is exculpatory. It proves that the president and I and all of us are innocent. They are the ones who are committing -- it's like -- it's like projection. They're committing the crimes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That after Giuliani's son, Andrew, tells our Erin Burnett tonight that he is confident that his father did everything on the up and up as it relates to the disgraced, twice impeached one-term former president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW GIULIANI, RUDY GIULIANI'S SON: I'm very confident that my dad did everything -- everything that he did on the up and up. So that's where I'll leave it there. I trust him. I trust his relationship with the president, and I know he's a man of integrity when it comes to his representation of the 45th President of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: If there is anybody who knows what it is like to be a former associate of the former president on the wrong end of a raid, it's Michael Cohen. Michael Cohen has this blunt message for Rudy Giuliani.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER Donald Trump'S LAWYER: My parents always told me it's not nice to gloat, but, Rudy, I told you so. I told you so. This is exactly --

(CROSSTALK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: What do you mean? What did you tell him?

COHEN: Well, I -- what I told him was that Donald Trump doesn't care about anyone or anything, that he will be the next one to be thrown under the bus, and that's exactly what's going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Obviously we've got a lot more on this tonight. You need to stay tuned because detail after detail. That story and the Gaetz story.

And it comes as America is grappling with what kind of country we are now and what kind of country we want to be going forward, especially when it comes to race. President Biden saying this tonight. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, I don't think the American people are racist. But I think after 400 years, African-Americans have been left in a position where they are so far behind the eight ball in terms of education, health, in terms of opportunity, I think the overhang from all of the Jim Crow and before that slavery have had a cost, and we have to deal with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Let me ask you this. What kind of America do we want? What kind of country do we want to live in? Do we want an America where we can listen to each other and really hear? An America where people protect and serve all of us, Black and White? An America where white supremacy is treated as the hateful, terrorist threat that it is. The president laying out his vision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: My fellow Americans, we have to come together to rebuild trust between law enforcement and the people they serve, to root out systemic racism in our criminal justice system, and to enact police reform in George Floyd's name that passed the House already.

We won't ignore what our intelligent agency have determined to be the most lethal terrorist threat to our homeland today. White supremacy's terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: But some people, some people like Senator Tim Scott, who by the way was handpicked to respond to President Joe Biden's speech, some people don't seem to hear that. Listen to what he says in response to the president's honest assessment of where America is now and where we need to get to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Hear me clearly. America is not a racist country. It's backwards to fight discrimination with different types of discrimination. And it's wrong to try to use our painful past to dishonestly shut down debates in the present.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, the president was absolutely clear. He doesn't think America is a racist country. But our history is something that we have to deal with, and that's the point. Senator Scott was trying to twist what the president was saying about the challenges we face. That was a twist, right? Pivot.

We can't sweep our history, our past, under the rug. We shouldn't -- we should never do that. We can't pretend that it is not there. We can't pretend there isn't real work to be done to get to the America in the Pledge of Allegiance, an America with liberty and justice for all.

Senator Scott says it is wrong to talk about our painful past as we debate our future. And let me just be fair here. He is engaging on some of these issues. He is working on the bipartisan effort on police reform. But the fact is our painful past is part of who we are today.

[22:10:04]

Our past set the course. That's how it works. That's how things work. We can't know where we're going if we forget where we came from. We didn't get here by accident. That's one of the chapters in my book, and I write about it. But I say this is the book and "This is the Fire." It's called what I say -- "This is the Fire: What I Say to My Friends About Racism."

I just want to share this. Here's what I write, and I quote. I said, "we can be simultaneously fearless about our future and truthful about our past. We can be equally conscious of our country's failings and proud of our country's progress. We've got to understand our past. We've got to understand that it all goes back to the original sin that can't be erased -- slavery. It's not just something in our distant past."

So, I want you to listen. Please listen to this because it just proves a point about understanding where we came from and that history setting the course. This is one lawmaker from my home state of Louisiana. He said it just this week. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY GAROFALO (R), MEMBER, LOUISIANA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: If you're having a discussion on whatever the case may be, on slavery, then you can talk about everything dealing with slavery, the good, the bad, the ugly --

UNKNOWN: There's no good to slavery, though.

GAROFALO: Well, then whatever -- whatever the case may be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Whatever the case may be. So, he walked it back right away, but this is exactly why we have got to talk about our painful past. It's not something that we can put behind us. It was there from the beginning of the country, and it's still affecting us and our families today.

My family, my blood, they were enslaved. I just can't put that behind me. That painful past has got to be part of our debates in the present, and we can -- including debates about voting rights. It's all -- we can talk about our painful history and talk about where we need to go forward. What's the problem with that? Generations of Americans marched and fought and some died for the right to vote. And as Democrats work to pass the sweeping voting rights bill, well, Senator Scott says this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT: This is not about civil rights or our racial past. It's about rigging elections in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Is he talking about his own party? Rigging elections? Now let me just think. Who is it who's actually engaged in trying to rig elections in the future? Which party is that again, trying to do that? Which party promoted the big lie, the bogus claim of election fraud that sparked the attempted insurrection at the capitol?

Which party voted to overturn the results of our free election, which Joe Biden won fair and square? Which party? And they voted to overturn those results while the destruction at the capitol was still being cleaned up. Which party is behind the nationwide effort to suppress the vote in future elections, the assault on voting rights simply because their guy lost? Which party?

Which party just passed voting restrictions in Florida, a key swing state, including limiting the use of drop boxes and adding more I.D. requirements for absentee ballots? Which party? Which party is it that passed a law in Georgia making it a crime to give food or water to voters online? Which party is that? Which party is it whose governor signed that law behind closed doors while a duly elected state representative was literally locked out and then arrested for knocking on the door?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Under arrest for what?

UNKNOWN: Why is she under arrest?

UNKNOWN: For trying to see something that our governor is doing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Hi, Tim Scott. Mirror. Which party? Do you know which party is trying to rig elections in the future? You know. Like I said, we've got to decide what kind of country we want to be going forward. Do we want to be a country that cherishes and protects one of our most important rights, the right to vote?

Do we want to be a country that understands our painful past on race so that we can move forward? Not pretend it didn't exist. Not say, we can't look back. You all know better than that. Tim Scott, you know better than that. Come on, man. We've got to decide which country we want to be.

[22:14:59]

A lot to discuss in this program in the hours to come. We have breaking news on the investigation into Congressman Matt Gaetz. The Daily Beast reporting now on what's being called a confession letter right after this break. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. So, this is our breaking news tonight, and it is really damning report if true. This is daily -- the Daily Beast is reporting it, that Congressman Matt Gaetz's friend and wingman Joel Greenberg wrote a confession letter saying both he and the congressman paid for sex with several women and a 17-year-old girl. The letter was part of Joel Greenberg's bid to get a presidential pardon from Trump and sought the assistance of Roger Stone.

CNN hasn't seen the letter, cannot firm the details in the Daily Beast story, OK? So, Greenberg's attorney telling CNN no comment. And we just got the statement from the congressman's spokesperson, and it says Congressman Gaetz has never paid for sex, nor has he had sex with a 17-year-old as an adult.

Politico has reported Mr. Greenberg's threat to make false accusations against others, and while the Daily Beast story contains a lot of confessions from Mr. Greenberg, it does not add any substance and certainly no evidence for the wild and false claims about Rep. Gaetz.

[22:20:06]

In fact, the story goes some way to showing how Rep. Gaetz was long out of touch with Mr. Greenberg, and had no interest in involving himself in Mr. Greenberg's affairs.

That is the end of statement. I have been waiting to talk to this man about this. It's Matthew Dowd, the former chief strategist for President George W. Bush, and the founder of Country Over Party.

Thank you, sir. Good evening to you. This shocking report from the Daily Beast. How bad -- how bad does this look for Matt Gaetz?

MATTHEW DOWD, FORMER CHIEF STRATEGIST FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, politically, it's like awful, though with Matt Gaetz, it's hard to define how awful, awful can be with everything that he's said and done over the last few years in the course of this. Criminally, we'll obviously discover over the course of the next few weeks or months as the case is gathered in this.

But I would take his person's statement or whoever gave you that statement with a truckload of salt because as we know, Matt Gaetz has been known to lie about many things in the course of this, but it's bad, but it also shows you -- and I've tried to say this to so many others. It shows you that Donald Trump -- just getting rid of Donald Trump doesn't fix the problem because this runs much deeper and much broader than Donald Trump.

And that's, I think, what America is struggling with today. I actually think the defeat of Donald Trump wasn't the end of the problem. It just began the beginning of surfacing with the problem in America is today.

LEMON: And what is that? DOWD: It's that we have now -- we have a system, Don, in our country

where it's anti-science, anti-facts, anti-truth. It doesn't -- the ends justify the means. We have a political party now that's completely dominated by conspiracy theorists, liars, and big white supremacists, and a dominant political party -- a legacy of party which we've never had before that is filled with this.

And until that is dealt with, I actually was listening to Joe Biden's speech last night, which I thought he gave very well. But I disagreed with a huge part of it, which is, I think he has to begin to speak harder truths about the fundamental problem in America today, because we can dream of a higher minimum wage and common sense gun reform and expanded infrastructure and higher taxes on the very wealthy, all of which the supermajority of country wants, none of it's going to happen. None of it's going to happen until we rid ourselves of this fundamental problem that exists in America today.

LEMON: Yes. Listen, a couple things and then I'm going to move on to Rudy Giuliani. I think you're exactly right that we live -- I call it a post-truth world or post-truth society right now where all of that stuff -- and it comes from the top -- trickles down to everyday people, the Trump supporters, the conservatives.

They believe -- they start to create their own reality, and they start to believe all these conspiracy theories, and they're aggrieved about everything and everyone is out to get them. And it's just -- it changed -- it has changed the thinking of people, the rational thinking to irrational and not truthful. It's really unbelievable.

And I understand what you said about Rep. Gaetz, but you know, I have to be fair. Innocent until proven guilty, and I have to read the response from his representatives, as you know, Matthew. I don't need to say that to you.

DOWD: And I agree with that. I agree with that, Don, and on this specific thing, innocent until proven guilty. But as far as I'm concerned, Matt Gaetz is guilty of a lot bigger crime, which is an attack on our democracy. He's probably not going to get prosecuted for that, so I -- Matt Gaetz on my scheme of things has already been detrimental to the health of our country.

LEMON: Let's talk about Rudy Giuliani now. So, he is denying any wrongdoing. I mean, we go from one to another, right? He's denying any wrongdoing after the raids on his home and office, but he has been connected to so many major controversies about Trump, whether he was defending him or directly involved.

And he is now the second personal attorney to the former president to be raided by the feds. It's fascinating to me to see the response because you know it's a deflection, and it's got to do -- you know. It's about e-mails, it's Hunter Biden. It's always a deflection. Where do you see this going?

DOWD: Well, I think Rudy Giuliani knows he's in a fundamental danger on this because I think he's skirted the situation of the law and ethics for so long in the course of this. You know, I think Rudy Giuliani is, I think, a perfect reflection of people that become around Donald Trump and get associated with Donald Trump.

It's -- I don't agree with this idea like what happened to America's mayor and the former U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York? He's just changed fundamentally.

[22:25:02]

I don't think that's true. I think what we see is that Donald Trump is the great revealer. Donald Trump is the great revealer. Donald Trump hasn't caused these people to be what they are. Donald Trump reveals them to be what they are. And I think that's Rudy Giuliani.

I think what we're seeing of Rudy Giuliani in this and what happened in this raid and everything that he's done and the big lie that he spun out about voter fraud and all the things he's done and the allegations that he's made and trying to use information from a foreign country -- all of those things he's done basically tell us who Rudy Giuliani is.

And, again, it goes back to my original point, is that Donald Trump may be hanging out playing golf in Mar-a-Lago or wherever he happens to be. But Donald Trump, game of thrones reference here, Donald Trump is like the mad king. And when the game of thrones -- when the mad king was ended, when the reign of the mad king was ended, it didn't solve the problem. It actually unleashed a bigger problem.

LEMON: Exacerbated.

DOWD: And Rudy Giuliani is a parted point of that bigger, bigger poison that exists in America today.

LEMON: You just said about Rudy Giuliani what I have been saying since, you know, he came on the scene as it relates to Donald Trump, and everyone was saying, what happened to America's mayor? I'm like, do you guys remember before 9/11, the Rudy Giuliani before then? He got this moment. It was awful that it happened, but where he had to step up as mayor, right? What choice did he have? Who wasn't going to give him money and funding for what happened in New York?

So, I completely agree with you. Matthew, I got to go. But thank you. It's always a pleasure having you on. One day we can talk about better things, I hope. Thank you very much for helping us out on our breaking news.

DOWD: You too, man. God bless, Don.

LEMON: You too. Thank you very much.

President Biden responding to Senator Tim Scott saying America isn't racist. I'm going to ask a top White House adviser how they took Senator Scott's speech. You don't want to miss that. That's next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: All right. Let's talk about what the president did last night and today, and will do in the days to come, marking his first 100 days in office by hitting the road, spending the day in Georgia promoting his multi-trillion dollar package of plans for jobs, infrastructure, and American families, calling it a once in a generation investment in America. Also addressing the issue of racism in America.

So, we have a lot to discuss with Symone Sanders, the senior adviser and chief spokesperson for Vice President Harris. Also newly engaged. Congratulations, Symone. I'm very happy for you. And thanks for joining us this evening.

SYMONE SANDERS, SENIOR ADVISER, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS: Thank you so much, Don. Thank you. Good to be here.

LEMON: Thank you. OK. So, let's talk about this. So, I want to play again what President Biden is saying tonight about racism in this country, responding to Senator Tim Scott. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I don't think the American people are racist, but I think after 400 years, African-Americans have been left in a position where they are so far behind the eight ball in terms of education, health, in terms of opportunity. I think the overhang from all of the Jim Crow and before that slavery have had a cost, and we have to deal with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Symone, how difficult is it to address these issues when many Republicans don't think there's even systemic racism in this country? They don't understand that a lot of Black and Brown people just have a different reality.

SANDERS: Well, again, thank you for having me tonight, Don.

And as Vice President Harris said this morning, the president had the courage to speak the truth about what is happening in America, and we have to have the courage to speak the truth.

So today you talked about this in your package. I heard you talk about it at the top of your show, and I've heard you speak about it on many nights, about the investments that this administration is proposing. The bold plan that the president put forth and that the vice president was also out today talking about while she was in Baltimore this afternoon.

This bold plan, the American Jobs Plan, the American families plan is a once in a generation investment. But this is what's special about it. When Joe Biden and Kamala Harris talk about building back better, this is not about going back to normal. This is about the recognition that for so many people in our country, when it comes to the economy, when it comes to equity, we talk a lot about equity in the Biden/Harris administration, that even before the pandemic, they were behind the eight ball, if you will. And so, these specific plans are designed to speak to not only what

has been happening over the last year given COVID-19 and the crisis that the country is experiencing, but truly building on and getting to the root of many of the issues, the systemic issues that COVID merely shows a light on, if you will, and peeled back the cover.

So, yes, racism is a part of addressing that. The economic plan is part of addressing that, talking about equity, speaking truth to the experiences of people of color in this country. And I have to tell you, Don, the president and vice president truly believe that there is something to be done here and that Americans have to come together and despite what we may see sometimes from folks in Washington, D.C., it is happening across the country.

LEMON: OK. There's a lot I want to get to, but let's get this behind us and then I can talk to you about this sort of transformational government that the Biden administration is saying that it is building. I want to know, though, what did you think when you heard Senator Tim Scott accusing the president and the vice president and Democrats of pulling the country further apart?

SANDERS: Well, Don, to be clear, I was focused on one speech last night, and that was the president's joint address, which was amazing by the way.

[22:35:02]

Let me just tell you this. And, again, the president spoke to this today. The vice president. We have to look at what is happening around America and across our country, what we are seeing is that folks are coming together. I've heard the vice president say this often, and I'll share it with you here tonight, Don. You know, when someone is driving down the street and they hit a pothole, and they damage their car, they don't care who -- if the person or the entity that is going to help fix that pothole is a Democrat, a Republican, or independent.

They care about if the folks who have been elected, the people who represent them, the folks who say they are here to serve and work for the people are going to do their jobs and get things done for American families.

And so, the president believes, the vice president believes that there is, there is, yes, room and space for -- I'm not even going to say bipartisanship because these are nonpartisan issues that we're talking about. We are talking about things like voting rights.

When the president and vice president are discussing voting rights, they're not talking about voting just for one subset of people in America. This is about defending access to the ballot box for all Americans. When they're talking about investing in the economy, this is not investing in the economy for some people. This is about American families across the board, middle class families.

So, there is broad support across the board, across the country in communities large and small, urban and rural, Don. And that is why the president, vice president, the first lady, second gentleman, and cabinet officials will be flanking out across the country over the next couple of days on the getting America back on track tour, talking about these bold investments, this plan --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: OK. I got you.

SANDERS: -- that the president has put forth for the American families.

LEMON: OK. So then, I'm glad you answered that because when you said pulling the country further apart. The reason I thought it was important to ask that question is because there was no one -- no administration that I have -- since I have been alive that has been more divisive for the country than the former administration.

And to hear a member of the Republican Party, the party that supported insurrectionists and very fine people on both sides and, you know, grab them by the p, and I prefer heroes that's not captured and on and on and on to say that this president, this president who is trying to help the American people is dividing the country was, to me, I don't understand the rationale or the logic there. But let's talk about what I said --

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: And, Don, the facts bore out. But I mean, to be clear, the facts bore out that it's just simply not true. Joe Biden has been very clear --

LEMON: Yes.

SANDERS: -- that he not only wants to work across the aisle, work with folks that are not of his party, that he's going to govern as an American president, that he and Vice President Harris are going to govern as Americans. They've been clear. They've invited folks to the White House.

The president and vice president are picking up the phone, making phone calls. I have personally traveled with the vice president and seeing Republican mayors, governors. Today she was in Maryland with Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland along with Senator Chris Van Hollen and Dr. Fauci.

So, I just think that we have to remember that the American -- we have to stay focused on the American people and --

LEMON: OK.

SANDERS: -- that's what the president and vice president challenge us to do every single day from the White House.

LEMON: Let me put this up to help buttress your point. This is a poll if we can put it up before Symone leaves here. This is a CNN poll that's out today. Most Americans, 71 percent want President Biden to work across the aisle, and yet not many Americans, only 38 percent say it's very or somewhat likely that we'll say bipartisanship on major legislation.

Sixty percent say that it is not too likely or not at all likely. But 71 percent say that they want him to work across the aisle. It seems like he's working across the aisle but working across the aisle with the American people and not necessarily for the people in D.C. who are trying to block the agenda. Thank you, Symone. I appreciate it.

SANDERS: Well -- thank you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you. Thank you.

So, he is the first to speak out. One of the jurors who found Derek Chauvin guilty in the murder of George Floyd tells us what it was like to make that decision. That's next.

[22:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. We're back now. So, let's talk about the families of victims of police violence on Capitol Hill today, pushing lawmakers to pass policing reforms. Congress facing pressure to act after a year that was -- that we saw historic protests for racial justice sparked by the killing of George Floyd in police custody.

The now convicted ex-officer Derek Chauvin set to be sentenced by the way on June 25th after being found guilty on all three counts in the death of George Floyd.

So, joining me now is Brandon Mitchell. He was one of the jurors in the Derek Chauvin trial, and the first to speak out. And we're so happy to have you here. Thank you so much, Brandon. I appreciate you joining us.

BRANDON MITCHELL, JUROR IN DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL: Yes. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me, Don.

LEMON: Can you please take us inside what it was like to be a juror in this case, to watch that video, hear all that evidence, know that this huge decision would be up to you with the whole country watching. How was that?

MITCHELL: I mean, it was stressful being in there every day. The fact knowing the whole country was watching, that wasn't too much pressure. I think that part was fine. But just being in there every day was stressful, draining mentally and emotionally.

LEMON: You told CNN that there were times that you felt like you couldn't keep serving as a juror. I found that fascinating, but you got through it by telling yourself, quote, "if I'm not here, who will be here for us," meaning us, the Black man, right? What responsibility --

MITCHELL: Absolutely.

LEMON: -- do you feel being a juror on this case? Because didn't you say you -- I think you called your mom and said, mom, I don't know if I can make it today, or either you thought about your mother and what she would think about it. But why did you feel being a juror on this case was so important?

[22:45:10]

MITCHELL: I just felt like as an African-American male, I empathized with George Floyd and his family. I see myself within them, and I felt like if I wasn't there to be a representative for the Black community, as an African-American man, as a guy of a larger stature, who's going to be that person to represent it -- to represents us?

I feel like representation matters. I thought like conversations can go either way if that person representing is not there. And, Yes, I had a weekend where I wanted to quit. I wanted to quit. I was seconds away from calling my mom and telling her that there's no way I can make it in to do this jury duty on Monday because I was just that much emotionally broken from seeing somebody similar to me die on a day -- die over and over again, die on instant replay as I've been saying.

LEMON: What -- so, you know, I said to take us -- what was it like? Was it contentious? Did you guys -- was it tough for you to make a decision, or did you have all the evidence, and did you basically say, look, we know what's going on here? Walk us through that.

MITCHELL: Yes. So, I don't -- once we got into the deliberation room, I don't think there was any contention or there was any, like, arguing or anything like that. I thought we all walked in somewhat on the same page. Once we understood all the terminology being used within the judge's instructions, we were pretty much all on the same page in terms of this is a murder. There wasn't much to discuss. We went over the evidence a little bit more. Everybody spoke their mind, and we were all for sure, like, this is what it is.

LEMON: Was there something -- was there a moment in the trial or that with any witness or with anyone where it just, sort of, sealed the deal right there?

MITCHELL: Absolutely. So, for me -- for me and I think most of the jurors, I thought Dr. Tobin really captured our attention. I thought the way he spoke just was so capturing, and it was so scientific but elementary, that everybody understood it, everybody wanted to take notes on it. Everybody was locked in and hanging on to every word that he was saying. And he was saying some really good stuff, and I thought we used that a lot in the deliberation room in terms of coming to our verdict.

LEMON: He was, I just want to -- he was a pulmonary expert who pinpointed for the world the moment when the light left George Floyd's eyes, and Brandon is saying that was pivotal to him and he thought it was pivotal for the rest of the jury.

Before the trial was over, Brandon, Daunte Wright was shot and killed by an officer just 10 miles away at a traffic stop. You say that you were pulled over dozens of times by police in Minneapolis when you were younger and that you have a check list on how to avoid danger in those situations. Does policing need to change?

MITCHELL: Policing, I think, absolutely needs to change. For some reason, especially here in Minneapolis and the twin cities, whenever you encounter a police officer as a young Black man, you're greeted with aggression instead of some form of compassion or anything else. You're greeted with tons of aggression, at least to Black men being victimized by the police, you know, being accused, being killed.

And it's been an ongoing thing for years and years and years where it was normalized for a long time. It was normalized for many years, and now that camera phones are a thing, it's being caught on video, and more and more people are being able to see these things to kind of spark a change.

LEMON: Yes. And I hear a lot of people talk about, well, the stats show this and it shows that, the incident it doesn't happen as much as people say. But listen, Brandon, I have to be honest, if you look at that initial police reports from, you know, Minneapolis police about what happened to George Floyd, it reads nothing like the actual incident.

And how many times across the country does that happen? So those stats, I'm not even sure that they're even true when it comes to how many people are actually killed or shot or harassed by police officers in this country.

Brandon, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. You be well.

MITCHELL: Yes. Thank you so much for having me today, Don.

LEMON: And you tell your mom and grandmother I said hello because I know they watch.

MITCHELL: They're going to love that.

LEMON: Thanks a lot.

So red meat. Why the House minority leader is still spreading a false rumor that Biden wants to limit your meat intake even though -- take this -- he doesn't.

[22:50:00]

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LEMON: Take this. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy repeating the debunk lie that President Biden wants to limit how much meat Americans eat. He said it on the Fox propaganda network.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, HOST, FOX NEWS: It's trillion of dollars that get us nowhere. We've been down this road. It's called Solyndra (Ph). Why double down on stupid?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: He just continues. He wants control of your life. He is going to control how much meat you can eat. Can you imagine that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That's a good question. Why double down on stupid? Because -- does a minority leader not have someone in his office telling him what President Biden actually supports when it comes to the climate crisis? It was only Monday when numerous media outlets including CNN debunked the viral false claim that Biden wants to restrict how much red meat are allowed to eat. One Fox anchor corrected it on air.

[22:55:09]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: On Friday we told you about a study from the University of Michigan to give some perspective on President Biden's ambitious climate change goals. That research from 2020 found that cutting back how much red meat people eat would have a drastic impact on harmful greenhouse gas emissions. The data was accurate but a graphic and script incorrectly implied that it was part of Biden's plan for dealing with climate change. That is not the case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes. Not the case. Never was the case. But now the lie is out there as so many of them are. That's why I say post-truth world society that we live in. And after the correction still being peddled by the most powerful Republican in the House. If McCarthy wants to push back on Biden's policies, he should just go for it. Yet here he is trying to make a political play over the fake ones. Like I say, far too often, don't fall for the OK-dokey.

We have breaking news tonight. And the question is there a confession letter? The Daily Beast says Congressman Matt Gaetz's wing man wrote one. Stay with us.

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