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Don Lemon Tonight

GOP's McCarthy Caught On Hot Mic Saying He's Lost Confidence In Cheney; Interview With Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO); Facebook Board To Announce Tomorrow If Trump's Account Will Be Reinstated; What Happened After A Teacher's Profane Rant; Florida To Pass Stricter Restrictions On Voting; FDA To Authorize Pfizer Vaccine For Teens Within A Week. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired May 04, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): House Republicans turning on Congress women Liz Cheney who is refusing to back down from criticizing Donald Trump's big lie of election fraud. House GOP leader, Kevin McCarthy caught on a hot mic saying he's lost confidence in her. Cheney is likely to be ousted from her leadership position next week.

Facebook's independent oversight board announcing tomorrow whether Trump's suspension from Facebook will be upheld or overturned. And President Biden saying the administration is ready to tart vaccinating 12 to 15-year-olds as soon as the FDA authorizes Pfizer's COVID vaccine for that age group, which is expected early next week.

Joining me now, Mark McKinnon, he is the former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain, and the executive producer of The Circus. And CNN political commentator, Amanda Carpenter as well.

Good evening to both of you.

Mark, you first, so GOP sources telling CNN, it's pretty much over for Liz Cheney. She could be replaced as early as next week by a Trump loyalist, Elise Stefanik. So, basically if you're not willing to lie for Trump, you're out of Republican leadership and you're basically on the outs with the Party?

MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (on camera): Yes, Don, it just strikes me that the entire Republican Party has gotten on the Titanic and is going to crash on the iceberg of the big lie. If you don't lie, and if you stand up for the truth, then you get punished. I mean, this is a Party that is promoting Marjorie Taylor Laser Beam that makes up stories about satellites starting forest fires. And punishes Liz Cheney for telling the obvious truth.

So, I mean, to me, what is happening is you only have people left who support the big lie and the Party then becomes branded as the Party of the big lie. And so that is what everybody is going to have to live with, and what strikes me also, is that the reason they are really punishing Liz Cheney is they know the truth. I mean, Ted Cruz, yesterday, five years ago, at the anniversary, when

he said that Trump is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truths and lies. Lindsey Graham said the same thing. They know. They know. So they don't (inaudible) about Liz Cheney is she reminding them that people can have a conscience.

LEMON: Yes. So, you mean, there is no Jewish space lasers. My goodness, I thought that was right. So you just mentioned Ted Cruz -- Amanda, this is a picture of Ted Cruz, he your former boss, by the way, he tweeted this, tweeted a message, had a great dinner tonight with President Trump at Mar-a-Lago. He is in great spirit, we spent the evening talking about working together to retake the House and Senate in 2022. So kissing the ring and a picture to prove it?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SENATOR TED CRUZ AND THE AUTHOR OF GASLIGHTING AMERICA: I mean, I guess the bright side is that Heidi wasn't there for this dinner. I'm trying to find a silver lining here. Here's the thing, there is a lot of Republicans, even people who I think mean well. You know, let's take the editors of the Wall Street Journal for example, they had an editorial out today, were' you talking about the top over the last hour, talking about why a purge of Liz Cheney would be bad.

OK, then, but then you read the piece and they kind of said, well, you know, it would have been better if she would have been quiet about things. But they turn around and say, that in order to win and expand the party, Republicans have to speak truth to voters. Excuse me? What are you talking about?

This is confrontation is unavoidable. Ted Cruz and everybody else is running down to Mar-a-Lago to kiss the ring because they hope somehow that Donald Trump is going to serve them the nomination on a silver platter. That's so their hamburgers, and diet coke and ice creams. It is delusional.

And somehow they all tell themselves, well, if we just play this just right, we will be able to move on from Trump. If you just don't make him mad. That is not going to happen. Trump and the truth are incompatible. You will never move on from the insurrection and the election lies until you move on from Trump.

And what Kevin McCarthy is doing, he is actually ensuring that 2022 midterms will be another referendum on Trump. Because the election lies are not over. Look at what is happening in Arizona. They have a circus of an audit. You want to talk about an election integrity, they are handing over private ballots to investigative firms that nobody has any oversight over.

Reporters can't go there and watch anything and what do you think they are going to come up with that story? Something custom made for (inaudible), so Donald Trump can come out and say, look, I really won this time, and we're going to all go through this one more time.

LEMON: Thank you for cheering me up, Amanda. I appreciate that. I mean, Mark, is Amanda right though? I'm thinking of a you know, twilight zone episode, or you know, some science fiction, don't wake the sleeping giant where he's like, because when he wakes up, he's like, roar.

[23:05:07]

CARPENTER: So true.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: You know, it's like, don't mess with him. Is that what's happening? I mean, do they -- I was just -- I just had someone on and they said, it's a feedback loop. It's a symbiotic relationship. They don't want to wake this sleeping giant, but they need the sleeping giant.

MCKINNON: The lack of leadership is just stunning and it is like the entire Republican conference now needs a spinal transplant. You know, we talked about Josh Hawley earlier, another Republican Senator, who was talking about why he voted against confirming the outcome of the election, and he said, well, I'm voicing the concerns of my constituents.

Well, the reason his constituents had concerns is because Donald Trump lied to his constituents about the election. So if Josh Hawley would have been a leader, he would explain to his constituents that the president of the United States and the leader of his Party had lied to them. So just voicing the concerns of his constituent's means, he's just voicing the concern of the president who lied to them.

LEMON: Amanda, I want to play this for you. This is Kevin McCarthy, what he is saying about Liz Cheney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I have heard from members, concerned about her ability to carry out the job as conference chair, to carry out the message. We all need to be working as one if we're able to win the majority. Remember, majorities are not given, they are earned. That is about the message about going forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What message is he talking about? Does the Party have a message, Amanda?

CARPENTER: The message is whatever Donald Trump wants it to be. Really, I mean, Liz Cheney has not changed a word about what she's been saying about the insurrection since it happened. She has stood very firmed. The only thing that changed since the last vote, what the conference voted to keep her is that people (inaudible) to Kevin McCarthy, people named Donald Trump, because Kevin McCarthy is not, he is a leader in name only, and the way this is going, I mean, he's never going to be good enough for Donald Trump, right.

Mike Pence was not good enough for Donald Trump. He wanted to hang him. And so you can let rid of Liz Cheney, but this isn't going to be over. I mean, you might as well give the gavel to Matt Gaetz, if you are not going to stand up or draw any kind of line in the sand. I mean, this is never going to end. The confrontation, if you want to get away from this, has to be had. And now there is a chance to have it.

I mean, I am somewhat hopeful here, because I look at someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who can raise $3 million and we all say wow. You know what, I bet if you cut Liz Cheney loose, she can raise a heck of a lot more than that.

LEMON: We'll see. Thank you both, I hope you liked my sleeping giant impersonation. Roar!

CARPENTER: I did.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Alright. Thank you very much.

MCKINNON: Roll that tape. Roll that tape.

LEMON: I'll see you soon. I want to bring in now Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado. Congressman, thank you so much, I appreciate you joining us. The Republican Party is all in on this big lie attacking anyone who admits the truth about the election and the insurrection. How does this affect you and the Democrats and the ability for Democrats to function? I think that is a very, very important question.

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO), IMPEACHMENT MANAGER (on camera): Yeah, thanks for having me on, Don. Well, you just, you were talking about a different side of the same coin here, right. The coin is that this is no longer the Republican Party as we used to know it. That I grew up around, I was raised in a Republican conservative family. This is the Party of Donald Trump.

And whether its people trying to sweep the big lie and the insurrection under the rug, and say that it didn't really happened, or people are misbelieving when it happened or whether they are trying to, you know, muffle Liz Cheney. It's all part of the same course of conduct. Now, how it impacts us is you know, we just have to tell the truth and continue to do our work. And we have to also make sure that the American people don't forget about what did happen.

We are less than four months out from an insurrection against our democracy, from rioters that's taking over the U.S. Capitol, from a police officer being killed and the 140 other thing (inaudible). I am not going to let people forget that. Because we have to have accountability. We have to be proof in order for our country to reconcile.

LEMON: Are you able -- though you said, you just have to continue to tell the truth and do your work. Listen the truth is under assault. People don't know what to believe right now. At least some obviously, because many are believing the big lie. But are you able to do your work in this environment especially you know, when there is -- especially in the Senate, where there's -- I mean, there is a majority, but it's very slim. Are you really able to get anything accomplish with the obstructionists on the other side?

CROW: Well, we passed the American rescue plan. I don't think we can talk about that too much frankly and I don't think we can overstate how important that is and how transformational it is, from ending child poverty, (inaudible), tax credit, reopening schools, getting businesses open safely to (inaudible) insurance and so many other important elements through it. We got that done.

[23:10:08]

And you know, come July, August, September, people start to safely go back to schools, as we get more shots in arms, as we actually govern, people will see that, right. I believe -- I have long believed that the antidote to Donald Trump is not talking about Donald Trump, not to (inaudible) out tweet him, it's not trying to murk with better burn, just to govern. This is the lead. And people will see that.

LEMON: Well, I mean, I want to talk you in a moment, Kara Swisher about what happens with Facebook, and also you know what de- platforming Donald Trump, what have you, to see what happens next. But I want to ask you about this, how dangerous it is trying to recast the truth on what happened on January 6th. I had the honor of interviewing two of the heroes who protected the Capitol from insurrectionist. D.C. Metro Police Officer Michael Fanone, Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn. This is how they describe January 6th. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FANONE, MPD OFFICER: I experienced the most brutal savage hand-to-hand combat of my entire life. Let alone my policing career. Which spans almost two decades. I want people to understand that, you know, thousands of riots came to the Capitol hell-bent on violence and destruction and murder.

HARRY DUNN, CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER: Those people are the terrorists, they're on the 6th, they were there to cause harm and they came prepared for a fight, and they hurt us, physically, and emotionally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You understand their fear. I mean, this picture showed you confronting your colleagues as you hid from the rioters in the House gallery. What is it like to hear your colleagues discounting what you experienced that day?

CROW: It's tough. There's just no other way to put it. You know, there is a moment there where I called my wife and I told her that I loved her, and tell the kids that I love them, as we were trapped in the House gallery, surrounded by the mob. I didn't know whether I would make it out. I thought for sure I would have to fight my way out, that was a tough situation and certainly Officer Fanone, those in the gallery with me, we know what happened. We remember what happened clearly, there is no doubt about it.

It was a brutal, terrible day. It's important that we tell the history of that, and I have a bill called the Capitol Remembrance Act that would actually (inaudible) exhibit and to tell and historically accurate account of what happened. Because it is important we preserve history, but let's not forget the other really important element of this.

This is not just an exercise in the integrity of history. We have an ongoing and growing domestic extreme movement. It's growing. These extremists, these conspiracy theorists, these militia members, they know what happened too. (Inaudible). So it's important not just to tell the truth. It's important that we are honest with ourselves and the risk that we face or (inaudible).

LEMON: Congressman Crow, thank you for your time. I appreciate you're appearing.

CROW: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: So, as I was mentioning to the Congressman, tomorrow Facebook's new over side board which the company says is independent. So they announced their decision on whether or not to allow disgraced former President Trump back on the site. Which could allow him to post again to 32 million followers. The landmark decision is prime to set a precedent for how big tech handles the battle between free speech and public safety concerns.

Let's discuss now, Kara Swisher is here, she is a "New York Times" opinion contributing writer where she has written about the relationship between Trump and Facebook. It's so -- and also her podcast sway, which I was just on. Thank you very much, Kara. It's good to see you.

KARA SWISHER, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, RECODE: No problem. Good to see you.

LEMON: It's been four months since Trump was booted from major platforms from instigating the January 6 insurrection. Do you think that he's going to be allowed back on Facebook, Kara?

SWISHER: That is my prediction for tomorrow. With some caveats. I think there's going to be a bunch of caveats, somehow he behaves in various things they can't violate.

But I have a feeling, and I have heard from people that is what is happening. That said, you never know. You don't know what could happen. I think we will find out tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. It's again, one of these things were we are sort of waiting on a Donald Trump suspense story of whether he should be on or off the platform, because of his behavior. So, here we are.

LEMON: These are issues that I know that you have debated about misinformation and propaganda. I mean, he used Facebook and other social media to spread disinformation, propaganda, the outright lies. He was a master at it. Even if he gets back on, you said there's a bunch of caveats. But what do you think happens then?

SWISHER: Then they kick him off again. I think, you know, it's like a game of whack a mole in a lot of ways. And you are going to be surprise I say this, but I don't blame him at all. Because why wouldn't you take advantage if these companies are going to let you do whatever you want.

Many people get kicked off for much lesser things, and it finally took them until January 6 before they decided they didn't want to be part of a seditious kind of behavior which is a bright red line for these companies.

There's a few bright red lines, but he crossed and violated their laws all the time they're different rules, you know, enforce them that well, they gave him a lot of leeway you know, they tried to labels on him on Twitter and they finally had enough with the insurrection. And Facebook did make the decision to suspend him because of the safety of people of the Capitol and elsewhere, and sort of the tenses in the country.

And then Facebook punted it off to this board which is an independent board which is paid for by Facebook but is independent of 20 very prominent people to make this decision. It's a little like the U.N. or the Supreme Court. I don't know quite what to care to.

But this is Facebook's job to make this decision and they abrogated the responsibility to do so in order not, I guess to keep their hands clean. I'm not really clear why they needed to do this.

LEMON: that's what I want to ask you. And listen, you can -- I don't know if you want to answer, giving your opinion or not about whether you think he should be put back on or not, but -- quickly, do you think he should be allowed back on?

SWISHER: No, he broke the rule.

LEMON: OK.

SWISHER: He's an outlier who broke the rules on the platform persistently and as the head of (inaudible) said, he is sort of a malignant cooperator, I guess. I don't know what else (inaudible).

LEMON: I don't disagree with you either. I think that, you know, I would take advantage of an opportunity like that. So I don't disagree with you at all. Do you think they're (inaudible) their responsibilities is my next question?

SWISHER: I do, I think this is their job, they you know, Mark made his famous speech, he didn't want to be an arbiter of truth, my question to him which I write in a column tomorrow in the Times is, if you don't want to be an arbiter of truth, why build a platform where it's important that someone arbitrate the truth or at least control the platform. It's a question of whether their immediate company, whether there are platform, whether they have responsibility, it's very clearly they have impact in January 6, it shows that.

And so they do have some responsibility to manage the platform they build. Twitter has done made the hard decision and it wasn't an easy one. YouTube is still sort of in the middle, it hasn't put Donald Trump back on. But Facebook has handed off to others to make the decision, because they can't make it on their own .I think it's their decisions to make even though others don't think that but I do. LEMON: So, what do you about this new -- he has this new landing page,

right. he's going to have this Trump does his landing page to his website a kind of blog called from the desk of Donald J. Trump, where he can share statements and videos directly with supporters. I mean, it is clear he is desperate to get back on social media.

SWISHER: Yes. It's interesting. I mean it's a blog. I don't quite know what it is and it was done by Brad Parscale which he has a new company called The Camping Nucleus. Look he's a really smart guy about tech. Whether you like him or not or whether you think how he use tech. He use tech (inaudible) actively in the Trump campaigns.

And so, not always but often they used it better certainly than the Clinton campaign. And so we'll see what he does here. It is just a blog. I don't quite know what it is and I tweeted what (inaudible). I never heard one.

And buddy, you know, he's trying to figure out a way he can broadcast replace Twitter and was interesting is whether I think some people in the Trump orbit do think that the Twitter can be pressured if Facebook sort of gives here that Twitter can be pressured to return him -- Donald Trump to Twitter we're his real home is. That is where he really likes sort of is like a maestro of malevolence really pretty much. But he's good at it.

LEMON: Hey, Kara, I've got to run, you know how this works, but so -- why is he different? Because there are people who had been kicked off of these social media sites permanently for spreading lies and for doing -- for breaking the rules. Why is he different?

SWISHER: He was newsworthy and he certainly still as newsworthy as were all waiting on this decision tomorrow. So that was the reason at the time. I will what they say.

LEMON: No, but why might he be allowed back on. Because most people say it's a done deal. You're kick off permanently, sorry. Done. You're out.

SWISHER: What if world leaders were -- were kicked off by a group of people running Facebook who just didn't like the world leaders? I guess that would be -- that would be the avenue they may go down, that this is a bigger issue about free speech of world leaders. And so that I would assume that.

LEMON: It's not a right. It's a privilege to be on social media, is that right?

SWISHER: Well, there's the debate.

LEMON: You got to abide by the rules. Yes. Thank you, Kara. Always a pleasure.

SWISHER: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you. A high school science teacher goes on a profane rant. A student says against George Floyd and -- students (inaudible) against George Floyd and Black Lives Matter. A rant recorded on the student's phone. We are going to tell you what happened. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

LEMON: A New Jersey high school teacher suspended from his job after going on an angry profanity filled rant against George Floyd and Black Lives Matter. The tirade happening during a virtual class. One senior recording it on her phone and saying that she and three other students of color were singled out by their teacher. And I have to warn you, the video is disturbing. Here's CNN's Alexandra Field.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

The bottom line is we make him (BEEP) here. He's not a hero, he's like a (inaudible).

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): An explosive tirade from a Jersey City high school science teacher. Howard Zlotkin ranting to his landscape and design class students says against George Floyd.

HOWARD ZLOTKIN, JERSEY CITY HIGH SCHOOL SCIENCE TEACHER: You guys emulate people like -- people that (BEEP) wrong at a criminal and you're making them right, because they are black. Because they got a bad story. Everybody got a bad story.

[23:25:05]

FIELD: Zlotkin then unleashes on the Black Lives Matter movement and its founders.

ZLOTKIN: The ladies that run Black Lives Matter (inaudible) houses and multimillionaires. And they don't give (BEEP).

FIELD: Later, when a student dares to disagree with his decoration that he is not privileged, a disturbing profanity lays response.

LEVIN: I ain't (BEEP) privileged. I come to work, and I happened to get paid by my black vice principal who (inaudible) (BEEP).

UNKNOWN: You are privileged though. Every white person is privilege is called (inaudible).

ZLOTKIN: (BEEP) you, you are privileged.

FIELD: Timmia Williams, a 17-year-old on the class recorded the tirade on her phone.

TIMMIA WILLIAMS, SENIOR, WILLIAM L. DICKINSON HIGH SCHOOL: If I didn't record it and I just told my principal, he's probably not going to believe it.

FIELD: Williams, who is just accepted to college to study nursing says, she left the virtual class in tears after she and three other black girls were singled out with an assignment, a presentation on why Black Lives Matter. She said she contacted several of her counselors to condole on what happened in class. Her mother Margie Nieves says, she called the school board, but they say no one responded to the complaints.

MARGIE NIEVES, MOTHER OF TIMMIA WILLIAMS: No one has reached out. No is concern how this kids are doing --

FIELD: The very next day, Williams said, Zlotkin was back in class. Demanding that she explain why Black Lives Matter.

WILLIAMS: I'm not presenting.

ZLOTKIN: Why not? Why not?

WILLIAMS: Because I don't want to present.

ZLOTKIN: Why? You sound like my other student, you don't care. Because you can't make a case for yourself? No, you can't to me and that is why.

WILLIAMS: No, that is not why. I just don't like presenting.

ZLOTKIN: I feel vague, I don't think you can make a case. You know, what to me, I don't like about it. You're full of (BEEP) too.

FIELD: Zlotkin has not responded to CNN's request for comment. He told the Washington Post, he is being judged on a snapshot out of a 60 minute class. That his comments were taken out of context and that he cannot comment further, because of the ongoing investigation.

He has now been suspended with pay from Dickinson High School while the Jersey City school district's legal department investigates whether to dismiss the tenured teacher. In a statement, the district saying it's appalled by the statements Zlotkin made to students filled with anger, profanity and disrespect. Jersey City board of education president (inaudible) tells us Zlotkin was back in class after the first rant, because the district was still collecting information and haven't yet received the video.

WILLIAMS: I hope that, you know, he doesn't ever teach again.

FIELD: Nieves says her daughter is still reeling, sending friends and relatives of other racist, even her mom heart breaking messages.

NIEVES: She said, mom, do you accept me for my color, for my race? And I said, yeah, of course. I love you, you're my only child. I will die for you. That broke my heart. And that touched me. And I'm just like, what has this man done to my daughter?

WILLIAMS: I don't know who is looking at me in a different way. I don't know who's going to be like, I don't like you because of your color or your life just don't matter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (on camera): And Don, anyone who watches those videos may be quick to come to their own conclusions, but the school district say its investigation is still under way. The school board president (inaudible) says, they have also reached out to local police and child protective services.

Howard Zlotkin is an adjunct professor at Hudson County community college as well. The college has responded to the release of those videos with the statement saying, Zlotkin has been suspended with pay pending further investigation. Don?

LEMON: Alexandra Field, thank you so much.

Republicans across the country trying to make it harder to vote. But my next guest says it is -- at least one key state, and at least -- in at least one key state -- excuse me that can backfire on them. Plus, the FDA is expected to authorize a vaccine for kids ages 12 to 15 early next week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I want American parents to know, that if that announcement comes, we are ready to move immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Republican lawmakers in Florida who control both the state House and Senate passing an elections bill that adds a layer of new restrictions to voting in Florida, including new restrictions on voting by mail using voter drop boxes.

But could some of these provisions end up hurting Republicans? Let's discuss now. Daniel A. Smith is here, political science professor at the University of Florida and Philip Bump, national correspondent for "The Washington Post."

So good to see both of you gentlemen. Thank you so much. Daniel, let's start with you. Florida's governor, Ron DeSantis says that he is going to sign this new bill, making it harder to vote. Democrats are calling it a revival of Jim Crow. But you've looked at the date. Give us the reality check. Could this also backfire on Republicans?

DANIEL A. SMITH, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA: Well, it's great to be on, Don. Look, we know that Republicans use vote by mail. They historically have done so here in Florida. They have done so in great numbers. That changed in 2020. Democrats mobilized because of fear of COVID, liberals more concerned about their health, shifted to voting by mail -- 2.2 million Democrats cast mail ballots.

That was an increase from about 29 percent of all ballots cast in 2016 being by mail by Democrats up to about 54 percent. So a huge increase.

[23:34:59] Republicans at 1.5 million, was just a slight uptick from around 30 percent to 34 percent of all ballots cast. So, Ron DeSantis and others are very concerned about that Democratic surge with respect to the use of vote by mail. Will it also hurt Republicans? Sure. But that is not who is targeted by these very specific efforts to cut down on after hour vote by mailing, in drop boxes, and other onerous conditions.

LEMON: So, all right. So answer me this. If ballot drop boxes were used by 1.5 million Florida voters in 2020, what's the purpose of limiting something like that?

SMITH: That's a great question. I mean, Ron DeSantis himself said this was a model election. Drop boxes were rolled out across all 67 of our counties. They actually started in Pinellas County with the Republican supervisor of election using them across their county. And it showed great success.

Ron DeSantis thought this was a great election. What is the problem with allowing 24/7 drop boxes that have security? Public records indicate that the supervisors either had manned security or video security. They've also noted that there were no problems at any of the drop boxes with respect to the security of those ballots -- 1.5 out of 4.8 million vote by mail ballots were estimated to be dropped off.

Many of them after the 7:00 p.m. close of polls during many early voting hours. Other supervisors only have their early voting maybe open from 9:00 to 5:00 in a two-week period. What is the point of having a drop box that is there that is only open during normal business hours.

We don't go to ATMs only during normal business hours. They are ATMs so that we can go and vote when the bank is closed. That's the point. And that's the new legislation is (inaudible) about.

LEMON: Go and get money. Yes. Go and vote against your checking account at off hours. Listen, Philip, "The New York Times" had some analysis about how voters of color making up an increasing percentage of the electorate isn't hurting the GOP as much as conservatives feared. So here's riding this.

Texas and Florida really would be blue if Latinos voted like their counterparts in New York or Illinois. But instead, Latino population growth has not quite had a strong pro-Democratic punch in the states where the party hoped to land a knockout blow."

So, Philip, what's the message here because both parties had made assumptions about diverse voters, didn't turn out to be true.

PHILIP BUMP, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, WASHINGTON POST: Right. Well, I mean, I think it's important to remember, it's a really long term trend and the data points that I always like to point to is the fact that in 2008, the United States moved very sharply to the left, elected its first black president.

And then 2014, six years later, it was a much more dramatic move bac to the right, and Republicans vastly over performed and the density of the white vote in those two elections was essentially the same. So it very much matters on who is coming out to vote. One of the things that we saw happen with Trump is he really mobilized a lot of infrequent or less frequent voters particularly white voters, white voters who may not have a college degree, to come out and vote, right?

And so we're looking at this pattern that happens over time. And I actually went back and looked at this last week and I looked at the House races and I looked at presidential races, and I found the same thing. That there hasn't been this correlation between a move to the left, and an increasingly diverse electorate.

But it's also the case that we're seeing a lot of other shifts under the seams, right. We saw the shift in 2020 according to exit polls where Hispanic voters in particular both in Florida and south Texas, Nevada, were more likely to vote for President Trump than they had been in 2016.

We saw shifts as well as I mentioned, among white voters that have college degrees. That shift has been happening, you know, for more than a decade now. These sorts of things help influence what the final outcome is and it's not always in the direction of one might anticipate.

LEMON: Daniel, talk to me about -- you have this survey. You got over 11,000 e-mail responses from Florida registered voters and discovered that Republicans who said they always vote in-person, that wasn't actually true. Tell me what you found.

SMITH: Yes. So, we surveyed around 12,000 voters in Florida. It was a scientific poll. We had about 5,000 who voted by mail, Republicans, Democrats, no party affiliates. We did so in late summer, July, up until August 1st. This was right when Trump started to rail against vote by mail very aggressively.

You might remember his interview at the White House with Chris Wallace on Fox Sunday News where he just ripped on vote by mail. And it was before our survey was out on the field before he kind of turned and pivoted on August 3rd here in Florida saying, well, in Florida, vote my mail is okay because (inaudible) we're getting very worried.

[23:40:00]

We asked these voters, how do you usually vote? And from the vote history files of the public records, we actually know exactly how voters vote. Not in terms who they cast their ballots for. But in terms of their method. And so we looked at Republicans and Democrats who always vote by mail, and we found in our survey that about one in four Republicans who we know always vote by mail, when we asked them, said, no, no, no, I usually vote in person.

So, taking a huge cue from (inaudible), you know, saying that we don't. We also then, after the election, looked at the vote history and looked at what people said in terms of that August -- July - August, how do you plan on voting, and again, we found about 1 in 5 voters who said, Republicans who said, they were going to vote by mail who in fact, said they were going to vote in person, who we know always voted by mail, actually by mail again. This is about five times more than Republicans.

LEMON: I got to run. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, Philip. Unfortunately, we're out of time. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. We'll be right back.

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[23:45:00]

LEMON: A source telling CNN the FDA is poised to authorize Pfizer's COVID vaccine for children aged 12 to 15 by early next week. And President Biden saying today, as soon as the FDA makes its decision, the administration is ready to get those teens and children vaccinated.

There is a lot to discuss right now with Dr. Dimitri Christakis, director of the Center for Child Health, Behavior and Development at Seattle Children's Hospital. He is also editor-in-chief of JAMA Pediatrics. We're so glad to have you on. Thank you doctor for joining.

DIMITRI CHRISTAKIS, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR CHILD HEALTH, BEHAVIOR AND DEVELOPMENT, SEATTLE CHIDREN'S HOSPITAL: Thanks for having me.

LEMON: So, let's say the vaccine is authorized next week. How soon do you think kids will be able to get vaccinated?

CHRISTAKIS: I think they'll be able to get vaccinated right away. You know, the truth is, we're in a situation, somewhat regrettably, that vaccine supply is exceeding demand. So, depending on where you live, there are vaccines are available immediately. And once children are authorized to get them, they can sign up just like anybody else.

LEMON: Children generally, doctor, haven't gotten serious. I say generally -- I'm speaking generally here, from coronavirus unlike older people. There had been cases, as you know. What do you say to parents who might think that they should take the risk rather than get their kids the vaccine?

CHRISTAKIS: Well, it's a really good point. And, you know, I have been on this show before and made the point that children are low risk, which they are. But they are not at no risk, right. Some children get very ill. Some children get a phenomenon called long COVID, which we are still trying to figure out exactly what that is.

And, of course, it's too early for us to know what the long term implications of children getting COVID might be. And the second thing I would say is that from a societal perspective, any person who can get and transmit the virus keeps the virus circulating, keeps the virus potentially reaching someone who is high risk.

And more importantly, keeps the virus able to mutate. And right now, thankfully, all of the mutations as far as we know, wherever they have originated, are still susceptible to the vaccines that we have available at least in the U.S. But it's just a matter of times before one of these mutants becomes nonsusceptible to the vaccine. So, it's in the best interest of all of us including the children who want to get back to their lives as normal, that we all step up and get a vaccine and stop transmission.

LEMON: Okay. I'm glad you said that because, listen, you know that summer is coming. Parents are going to be concerned about this. Rightfully so. The CDC has put out guidance for summer camps, okay. So take a look at this. They say masks must be worn, basically all times, even outdoors when playing sports by everyone including vaccinated adults. You call this draconian. What do you think should be done instead, doctor?

CHRISTAKIS: Well, I do think it's unnecessarily draconian. You know, it's really disappointing to see that the recommendations for summer camps are about where they were last year. Actually in some ways, there are more strict than they were last year, and we have learned a lot in the past year.

We've learned that transmission outdoors is rarer. We know that young children transmit less frequently than older children. And, of course, we have a vaccine that's available. So, why would we have recommendations from the CDC that say if you're vaccinated and outdoors, you don't (inaudible) mask?

And now we have a vaccine available for 12-year-old children or will by summer, and subject children to these very strict guidelines. To me, it's -- there's much more simple -- much simpler strategy. If your child is 12 years or older, get them vaccinated and then they can go to summer camp. If they are younger than 12, this summer, where there won't be a vaccine available for them and they are playing outside, let them not wear masks.

Test frequently if you can, and have them not wear masks. And if they are indoors and can't socially distance, then they can mask like they've been doing in schools. It's just really interesting to me, Don, that we have stricter guidelines around children and camps than we do in restaurants, than we do for adults. Why?

[23:50:00]

Why are we not prioritizing letting children get back to their lives? They've made an enormous sacrifice over the last 15 months. A sacrifice, by the way, that will have long-term implications for their social and emotional development. We really must prioritize doing everything we can to normalize their lives as soon as possible.

LEMON: Doctor, it's always a pleasure to have you on. Always great information. Thank you so much.

CHRISTAKIS: Thanks for having me. Take care.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

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[23:55:00]

LEMON: Before we go, I want to make sure you know about my new special coming up. Fifty years after Marvin Gay's groundbreaking album "What's Going On" was released, why has it become an anthem for a new generation? A CNN special, "What's Going On: Marvin Gay's Anthem for the Ages" premieres Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPIKE LEE, FILM DIRECTOR: I will cut class to listen to his album. This mojo right here, timeless, timeless.

LEMON: How much do you think it was influenced by his brother's involvement in Vietnam?

LEE: Marvin was getting a firsthand account of Vietnam from his brother. But then Marvin's in Detroit, the big D. He's seeing the bloods come back on heroin, handicapped or in coffins. The song "What's Happening, Brother" that's from someone who just came back to the world. They called U.S. the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[23:59:59]