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Don Lemon Tonight
Rep. Liz Cheney Stands For Democracy; Political Grip Above Right And Wrong; "Black Mold" Developing In The World Of Politics; Brown Family Eager To Get Justice; Voting Rights Bill The New Jim Crow 2.0 According To Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX). Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 11, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): One quick thing about how you process tonight. This isn't about Liz Cheney telling us something we didn't know. The truth is obvious. It's not about everybody getting on the same page with the truth. The truth is obvious, the facts are obvious, the big lie is just that. The question is when did it used to be the GOP decide to be something grand.
"CNN TONIGHT," the big show with the big star, D. Lemon right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: That is the big question. That is the question. So, do you remember a little bit ago when you said you always getting us in trouble? Do you remember you said that to me?
CUOMO: I said do you live to get us in trouble.
LEMON: I do, as a matter of fact. So now do you want to talk about it?
CUOMO: Well, now we can talk about it.
LEMON: All right. So, yes. I think -- you know, I didn't want to say that. I was going to say that Liz Cheney is doing something that I think we do on this program and that is tell people the truth. Tell people the truth every single night in an unscripted manner and no matter if they like or like. And what's what we're going to on our new podcast called the Handoff with Don Lemon and some other guy. And yes.
CUOMO: I like that the visual here suggests that we get sideways with each other.
LEMON: We do, all the time! Everything that I've been doing promoting the --
CUOMO: Book.
LEMON: -- the book, the podcast. Everything. Because I've been talking about this, you know, I got something to do and announce whatever we can do right now. Every time -- and people always ask me about you. And actually, someone asked me about you today, they said was that intentional? The conversation that you have with Chris every night, is that intentional, is it intentional to show people around the country what we should be doing and how we should be handling conversations?
And I said, well, initially it wasn't, it was just us communicating with each other the way that we do in everyday life and then as it went on, the feedback that we got was you guys are showing us how to interact in this climate and culture and time. And so, it's not intentional but it is what it is.
CUOMO: The luxury is we know where each of us is coming from. We know there is no hidden agenda, so, and we are actually friends.
LEMON: Wait, wait, wait, wait. This is -- this is the CNN Tonight with Don -- it should be Lemon and Cuomo.
CUOMO: Won't sell, that's why they said.
LEMON: Go on. What you say?
CUOMO: Look, so, Don and I have a freedom that you don't usually have on TV because we know each other so well personally. I know he'd never hurt me. I know wherever he's coming from, it's coming from a good place. That's a benefit.
Also, we are not afraid to take risks with what we know to be reality. Look, that's how we got in in this jam right now. You got people who are too afraid --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- to tell the truth. They know the truth. They just don't want to tell the truth. And what we started doing that got us yelled at, still does, but for a different reason is now often the highest rated part of this entire day --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- on CNN. And I think the reason for that has much to do with us as it does to do with the dynamics. So, we look forward to bring it to you.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I would like to clarify something while you make your next point. I'm just -- I want to get some facts. You have said many times false on this show and elsewhere that I talk way more than you do. Do you recall ever having said this?
LEMON: Well, yes, I do.
CUOMO: Well, I had somebody count. And guess who talks more --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Right. Like one day.
CUOMO: No, no, no.
LEMON: No, OK. You are still talking. Still talking.
CUOMO: The last -- the last 10.
LEMON: Still talking.
CUOMO: The last 10.
LEMON: Still talking.
CUOMO: You talk more.
LEMON: And you know why? Because you asked someone to count it and you knew --
CUOMO: You are calling my mother a liar?
LEMON: -- like last night --
CUOMO: You are calling my mother a liar?
LEMON: No.
CUOMO: Mom! You see?
LEMON: Yes. I'm calling Rose, I know it is Rosalie who did it. Rosalie --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I'm not giving you up my sources.
LEMON: So, listen --
CUOMO: Yes, captain (Inaudible).
LEMON: I am so -- I am happy that we got this opportunity, yes, we do have more freedom for discussion and quite frankly, editorial freedom than I think on than most people, if not everyone, well, most people on cable news, and I am very grateful, I'm very aware of that and as are you.
So, as I said when asked about this by the reporters, if you are easily offended, this is a podcast for you. No, I said, if you are not easily offended, this is the podcast for you. If you are easily offended, this is definitely the podcast for you because we are going to toughen you up. Everybody is offended in this day and age. Everybody is offended. So, let's talk about it and let's offend each other but let's hold each other accountable and move forward with something that some good for the culture and does good for the --
(CROSSTALK)
[22:04:58]
CUOMO: We have forgotten the basic rules in our politics that we follow everywhere else in our life. And that is you can disagree with decency.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And we do it everywhere else in our lives but we don't expect it from our politics and now we are letting it affect all of us.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: So, we're going to do it once a week every week starting from now and you can get it on Apple.
LEMON: Apple. There we go!
CUOMO: yes.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Finally, the banner in this way.
CUOMO: I'll give you this one. You look better in the picture.
LEMON: Well, that's because I'm not airbrushed.
CUOMO: I think it would suggest you are. But my point was, I was going to compliment you before you insulted me. You take a better picture. You are good looking. In person, you are a little disappointing, but you take a great photo. Everybody says it. I mean, you are only 5'7".
LEMON: You are the one who is always telling me you love me and trying to kiss me. So that's --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I do love you, and I do kiss you often because that's how I show affection. Because you are a quality person who means everything in my life.
LEMON: I got -- thank you. Thank you.
CUOMO: And I look forward to slicing you like cheese on our new podcast.
LEMON: Thank you. I -- how great is this that we get to do this together?
CUOMO: We are lucky --
LEMON: Yes,
CUOMO: -- and I'm blessed for the opportunity, especially to have it with you.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: I love you more, brother. I'll see you soon. Wait until I grind you up on that podcast into little meet.
CUOMO: Go ahead.
LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
I'm so glad that you joined us tonight. I was going to say when was the last time you saw a brave act in politics? but let me ask you something. When was the last time that you did something brave? When was the last time that you stood up for something that you knew was right, that you believe was right, when everybody else was afraid and you shouldn't do that, or they were just doing what everyone else, going along with the flow, going along to get along.
And you said no, I cannot do that. When was the last time you did it? If you haven't done it, think about it. Think twice. And if you have, you know how hard it is. So, think about the last time you saw it in politics, especially from Republicans.
We've seen a lot of outrage, audacity, cowardice, lying. When was the last time that you saw courage? Right? A woman standing alone, almost entirely alone, speaking not to save her skin but for history, and standing up against a very powerful man and very powerful men. I will remember it. You probably will too. History surely will.
Liz Cheney taking to the floor on the eve of a vote when the members of her own party are all but certain to kick her out of her leadership role for now, standing against the big lie. She knows they can oust her. But they could not silence her. The cowards who won't stand up for democracy couldn't make her cower to their false idol.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Today, we face a threat America has never seen before. A former president who provoked a violent attack on this capitol in an effort to steal the election has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the election was stolen from him. He risks inciting further violence.
Millions of Americans have been misled by the former president. They have heard only his words, but not the truth, as he continues to undermine our Democratic process, sowing seeds of doubt about whether democracy really works at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): That is Liz Cheney standing up for the truth when so many Republicans are afraid, reminding them of their duty not to -- not to a disgraced unpopular loser, yes, I said it, but to the oath they made to America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: Our duty is clear. Every one of us who has sworn the oath must act to prevent the unraveling of our democracy. This is not about policy. This is not about partisanship. This is about our duty as Americans, remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. I will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in silence while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule of law and joins the former president's crusade to undermine our democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Liz Cheney later refusing to say who she meant by others, leading the party down a path that abandons the rule of law, but I think we know. They are the ones whose names will be asterisks in the history books. Or at least part of that word.
It's ironic that they are trying to silence her for saying exactly what her party in America needs to hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:09:59]
CHENEY: I received a message last week from a gold star father who said standing up for the truth honors all who gave all. We must all strive to be worthy of the sacrifice of those who have died for our freedom, they are the patriots.
Katharine Lee Bates described in the words of America the Beautiful when she wrote, beautiful for heroes proved, in liberating strife, who more than self their country loved and mercy more than life.
Ultimately, Mr. Speaker, this is at the heart of what our oath requires, that we love our country more. That we love her so much, that we will stand above politics to defend her. That we will do everything in our power to protect our Constitution, and our freedom that has been paid for by the blood of so many. We must love America so much, that we will never yield in her defense. That is our duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, they said Liz Cheney has to go because she can't deliver a message. Really? She sure delivered one hell of a message tonight. People talk about the book the senator -- President John F. Kennedy wrote, "A Profile in Courage." They joke about it being a slim volume because courage was rare, even then.
That book would have at least one more chapter after tonight. And while she was standing up for the truth, her own party was cowering, cowards every one of them. Every Republican but one, cleared out as soon as she came to the floor. I guess it was elected representatives who are afraid to hear what she had to say. Afraid to look in the mirror that she was holding up for them.
Congressman Ken Buck was the only member watching her speak in person. A Republican -- one Republican telling CNN, quote, "I have hardly talk to anyone in the last three days who will stick their neck out for her. Even those who like Liz, and agree with her, I think the current situation is just untenable."
So, let's remember, Republican leadership all sit together just three months ago, after they voted to keep Liz Cheney in her leadership position. They stood there and said they were united, a family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: This conference is more united, we got the right leadership team behind it and I look forward to watching to make sure that we got the right focus for this country of putting it back on track.
UNKNOWN: What was the vote?
MCCARTHY: We are very candid and honest with each other, but address this as a family, and address this as a team and ultimately, finally work to have a vote where we kept the entire team together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): This is a family? My family didn't vote me off the island or out of the family, is yours? They stood together then, now they can't even say stay in the House to listen to her.
Adam Kinzinger tweeting us tonight, and I'm quoting here, "Kevin McCarthy, an employee of Donald Trump may win tomorrow but history won't be kind. Never has our party gone after its own leadership like this, but Kevin and Steve Scalise made history, because Trump has thin skin. I'd be embarrassed if I was them."
That as the number two House Republican Steve Scalise said this afternoon, and I quote here, "it's not about right or wrong, it's about the focus of our conference, and focusing on pushing back on the agenda that's being pushed by the Biden administration."
Does he realize what he just said? It's not about right or wrong, can you please put that back up, Danny? "It's not about right or wrong," he says, "it's about the focus of our conference, and focusing on pushing back on the agenda that is being pushed by the Biden administration."
Does he understand what he just said? It's not about doing the right thing, it's not about working for the American people, it's about pushing back on the Biden agenda, which is getting shots in arms, getting money into people's pockets, focusing on the business of the American people, acting like an adult, as someone who's confident, as someone who can run the country.
But that's not what's important, about working with the president, the duly elected president of the United States. It's about pushing back against his agenda. Is this 2008 all over again? The thing is, this is about right or wrong. That's exactly what it's about. It's about truth versus lies. It's about how one party stands for lies that put our democracy in peril. The big lie of a bogus election.
[22:15:08]
It's about denying reality, the big lie that spawned the deadly insurrection at the capitol when bloodthirsty Trump supporters ran riot, rushed over the capitol, beating police officers with an inch of their lives and hunting lawmakers.
Some of them the same lawmakers who will meet tomorrow to throw Liz Cheney out of leadership for telling the truth about the insurrection. This is about right or wrong, Steve Scalise. This is about Republicans selling the soul of their party to placate the disgrace former president because they're afraid that they can't win without him. Win at all costs.
Lindsey Graham, of course Lindsey Graham as always saying the quiet part out loud today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If you try to drive him out of the Republican Party, half of the people leave. So, it doesn't mean you can't criticize the president, it means the Republican Party cannot go forward without President Trump being part of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): And that is the deal the Republican Party is making. Buy into the big lie or get out! the Senate Minority Leader John Thune warning, quote, "if we continue to rehash the 2020 election, we are going to lose the 2022 election. If we continue to rehash the 2020 election, we are going to lose the 2022 election."
Republicans, are you listening? And this tells you everything you need to know about the hypocrisy of the GOP, tomorrow the very day the Republican Party will throw Liz Cheney under the bus for telling the truth, the truth is that there was no widespread voter fraud in 2020.
That very day, the former acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen will testify the DOJ found no evidence of widespread voter fraud that could have changed the outcome of the election. He'll testify at tomorrow's hearing on the government response to the January 6th attack on the capitol.
Rosen, you remember, he was Trump's acting attorney general who refused to go along with the attempts to overturn the election. Standing up for the truth and again, saying there was no widespread voter fraud. Trump's acting attorney general, doing all of this while the GOP sides with the lie that fuel the insurrection.
The contrast, could not be clearer. So, when you watch Liz Cheney, when you watch her tonight, think about the few people have seen in a Republican Party who have stood up. The few that voted to impeach, the few who voted to convict. Those who are willing to be booed our ousted from office, you may disagree with him on many issues. But what happens when they are gone?
What happens when the McCain's are gone? The Romney's? The Cheney's? And then you get, the McCarthy's, the Gaetz's, the Taylor Greene's. So, think about the McCain's, the Romney's, the Cheney's, those who are gone who have quietly retired announced they are stepping down, been defeated or who may be defeated in 2022. What's left? And what Liz Cheney is warning about is a Republican
Party that stands for nothing, but one very unworthy man. And you know what they say happens when you stand for nothing, when you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything. And the Republican Party has done both. Tomorrow the GOP is going to vote to try to silence her. But what Liz Cheney said tonight will echo through history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: Our freedom only survives if we protect it, if we honor our oath taken before God in this chamber. To support and defend the Constitution, if we recognize threats to freedom when they arise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): A moment in history tonight, the speech on the House floor by Congresswoman Liz Cheney just hours before House Republicans are expected to take away her leadership post for calling out Trump's big lie of election fraud, saying that the former president has misled millions of Americans and is undermining democracy.
A lot to discuss now with CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger is here, and former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman.
I'm so glad to have both of you on. Good evening.
Gloria, hello. So, let's talk about Liz Cheney.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi.
LEMON: Her candor, her directness --
BORGER: Yes.
LEMON: -- stunning. This is a moment for history and it seems like she is well aware of that, Gloria.
BORGER: She knew it. The speech was about history, and she was, as you've said earlier tonight, she was playing to history. And that's because she wasn't talking to the Republican conference. She knows that's over. She is gone. There will be a vote. She will be out of leadership. She gets that and she thinks it's worth it because it is about democracy. It's about the country's devotion to democracy and where we ought to stand on this question of a rigged election.
But I also think she did on other thing, Don. And that is, I think it was also definitional in terms of the Republican Party. She drew a bright red line. And she said to the Republican Party either you believed the - you believed the election was stolen from Donald Trump or you believe Joe Biden is the freely and fairly elected president of the United States. [22:25:08]
And every Republican running for reelection in the House of Representatives should be asked that question a priority. What do you believe? Because she stood up there tonight and told us what she believed, and we know she is getting thrown out of the leadership as a result of that because she is not, quote, "on message." She is saying to the country, OK. This is the question for the Republican Party, at great personal risk.
LEMON: Yes. Well, she delivered a fine message tonight, she stayed on message tonight, Gloria.
BORGER: Yes.
LEMON: Representative Riggleman, there has never been any evidence of widespread fraud, but a lot of Republicans have insulated, excuse me, have insinuated, as I wanted to say that there was. But Cheney would not have it. This is -- I want you to watch what she said then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: More than 60 state and federal courts, including multiple judges the former president appointed, have rejected his claims. The Trump Department of Justice investigated the former president's claims of widespread fraud, and found no evidence to support them.
The election is over. That is the rule of law. That is our constitutional process. Those who refused to accept the rulings of our courts are at war with the Constitution. Our duty is clear. Every one of us who has sworn the oath must act to prevent the unraveling of our democracy.
This is not about policy. This is not about partisanship. This is about our duty as Americans, remaining silent, and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. I will not participate in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): She -- so she is telling Republicans that they can't continue to embrace Trump when he is still pushing this big lie about election fraud, that the election was stolen. But they weren't even willing to stay there in the room to listen to her. What does that say, Congresswoman?
FMR. REP. DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R-VA): Well, they don't want to listen. I mean, at this point, you have to be facts immune in order to get elected in certain districts in this country, and that's what scares me about this. And Liz is not facts immune.
And tonight, she became a facts-based pariah. And I know there's a few of us that are like that in the Republican Party. And Don, it was Liz that stood beside me when I got a primary opponent to meet me after I officiated a same-sex wedding. She is the one who stood beside me when I went against QAnon. It was those reasons that I got ousted and it was Liz who was always there to support me.
And it was Liz who called me two days after the January 6th insurrection and ask me for a report. I'm the chief strategist for the Network Contagion Research Institute. And at that time, Matt Gaetz was pushing the false flag theories with Donald Trump, and also the fact that the election was stolen.
And we were able to get her a report in about two to three days, and it was Liz who actually started that and ask me because of my background as an intelligence officer to get that data for her.
So, she's done so much more than she even showed in the speech today, Don. And that's why I'm such a close friend of hers. That she stood by me when I went through this. And I think there is going to be a lot of people like me that stand through -- that stand with Liz because we have to have a party and a country that's better than this.
And I think you are going to be surprised on May 13th. There is a large group of former Republicans and independents that are putting up a common-sense coalition type of principal statement that's really going to try to bring us back to where we need to be.
But it's not looking great for 2022 in some of these districts. And what Liz did was actually put down a marker, and I think there is going to be a lot of people that are going to stand behind that marker. I think, myself, Adam Kinzinger, I think a lot of individuals are just sick and tired of living in a world where a lie Trump's facts and where people think a human being is larger than the Constitution. I reject that and Liz showed that she rejected that today.
LEMON: Gloria, the congresswoman just mentioned January 6th. And then, you know, I'm wondering that. I mean, it's so obvious what happened on January 6th. It was right there in front of our faces, and then you look at what happened with Liz Cheney and you see her on the floor tonight, abandoned by all men -- all men in the Senate, and women, but one. How do you think that plays for the Republican Party moving forward? And as the congressman said and moving forward in upcoming elections?
BORGER: Well, look, it's very hard to predict the House, obviously, because districts are gerrymandered. And there are very ruby red congressional districts that will remain ruby red no matter wet. And those are a lot of the members who are playing to Donald Trump because he is very popular in those districts.
Liz Cheney does this at great personal risk. I mean, you know, Donald Trump won the state of Wyoming by what, 70 percent?
[22:30:00]
But I do you think, and let me pause it this and maybe the congressman knows better, I do you think there is a possibility that this could really boomerang for Republicans. If you look at one of our recent polls, 69 percent of independents believe that the election was freely and fairly decided, period. Those are people that you have to convinced to vote for you, at some
point. If not in 2022, I mean, the Republicans could well take the House in 2022. But in 2024. And if this becomes the red line, and if this becomes the question as personally, I think it should become the key question, what do you believe? Do you believe in the Constitution? Do you believe in democracy? Do you believe in truth?
If that becomes the question, then I think Republicans by doing this could put themselves in some real peril. You know, the irony is I cover the Hill for a decade. Leadership races are very parochial generally, it's about who likes who.
And I think in many ways, the Republicans I've talked to over the last week they said to me, this is because she treated Kevin McCarthy badly. You know, he backed her, and then -- and then she did this to him, and spoke out publicly. So, they're having a parochial race over there in the White House, when in fact it is now a national and international embarrassment.
LEMON: Well, I believe the congressman agrees with you from his facial expression, so I will move on. Thank you both. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.
Republicans peddling conspiracies, discarding the truth and with the rare exception of people like Liz Cheney doing nothing to stop the spread of their lies. My next guest says it's all part of America's mold problem, he'll explain.
[22:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): House Republicans are set to oust Liz Cheney, Congresswoman Liz Cheney from her leadership position tomorrow.
Matthew Dowd is the former chief strategist for President George W. Bush. He likens what is going on in politics right now to black mold, and here's what he writes. He says, we have a black mold moment in America today. The rise of anti-truth, anti-democratic voters, politicians, and some media is a dangerous concern for our House of democracy. Not only is it ugly and appealing to a majority, it is a huge cause of concern for the long-term health of our republic.
This black mold started out in the dark as a few spores of lies and conspiracy and hate, but it was left untended for too long, and now must be dealt with in a serious and clear way.
And Matthew Dowd joins me now. Matthew, profound words, everyone should listen to. Thank you, sir. Good to see you. Black mold.
MATTHEW DOWD, FORMER CHIEF STRATEGIST FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Good to see, Don.
LEMON: Black mold is disgusting, it is toxic, it is possibly deadly. What's your remedy?
DOWD: Yes.
LEMON: How do we save our democracy?
DOWD: Well, thank you. Just like with black mold, the way to get rid of it is first you have to acknowledge you have it, and not hire somebody that's just going to paint over it, and not, you know, realize the fundamental nature of the problem. It may mean tearing out some walls, it may mean ii means bringing some light and air in.
And really fundamentally dealing with the problem, that's why that's the only way we do it. As voters we have to do that, we have to see it clearly, we have to acknowledge it, and we have to hire contractors who are our elected officials to actually fundamentally deal with the problem.
And that to me, you know, January 6 to me is evidence of the problem. It isn't the fundamental problem. It was awful but it was evidence of a problem that has been growing, growing and growing because we now have one of the major parties, is become an anti-fact, anti-truth, anti-voter, anti-law on order party. And that's really the position we're in today that we have to deal with.
LEMON: Yes. For the one plus one equals three are (Inaudible), I say that the insurrection was one plus one equals two, equals two was the insurrection. That's how we got, people, there are many people who have been warning the GOP for quite some time, your party about clinging to Trump. The restrictive voting laws being reenacted across the state, the denial of common facts. Do you see it as a concerted effort by the GOP to gain minority rule?
DOWD: Yes, they understand that the country has changed, they know it, they know the reality, the country has fundamentally changed. We're a diverse country now a multiethnic democracy. It's fundamentally changed, they know that their only appeal is to a segment of the white voters in this country primarily.
Primarily a segment of the white voters, which is that most diminishing population in the country, and so what do they do? They have two choices. Grow their party and appeal to broader segments of the country, change their policies, change the way they approach things and appeal broadly to what America is, in the 21st century.
Or try to restrict a vote in a manner that the white vote can still win elections. And they chose the second path, which is restrict the vote in a way so they can gain the system, so they can win in election that is less diverse than the country is as a whole. That's where we are at.
LEMON: That can only last along, Matthew. I mean, listen, let's just say that they --
DOWD: Yes.
LEMON: -- you know, in the short term 2022, they take over the House or whatever, and then they take over the Senate but that can only last for so long. The numbers, the sheer numbers are against them. And people aren't buying what they're selling.
DOWD: So, you're exactly right. So, to me, it's basically a five-year short-term plan that they have.
LEMON: Right on.
DOWD: Because after five years the numbers are going to grow so large with African-American population, the Latino population, the Asian population, all the different segments of society, the people that aren't white, Christian Evangelicals all of that is going to grow.
[22:40:03]
But the damage they have been able to do just in the last few years and the damage they could done -- could do in the next five in this time is really fundamental to our democracy. And that's my biggest fear is. We have to do all we can in the short term.
I'm optimistic and hopeful for the long term because those numbers will overwhelm at some point. But I'm very concerned of the damage they are doing in the short term, and it affects people's health. When you lie about public health, people die. When you lie about elections, then people distrust government and people distrust other people. So, they are doing seriously -- serious damage in the short term.
LEMON: Truth teller, Matthew Dowd, thank you. I appreciate having you on. I'll see you soon.
DOWD: Good night. Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Thank you. The families and attorney for Andrew Brown, Jr. viewing more body cam video of his fatal shooting by police. They say that after what they saw they're even more committed to get justice.
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): The family members of Andrew Brown, Jr. speaking out tonight after viewing a restricted amount of body cam footage showing the police shooting that killed the 42-year-old Black man. The family being shown less than 20 minutes of a close to two hours of footage after a judge's ordered. His sons say nothing they saw on that tape could justify what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KHALIL FEREBEE, ANDREW BROWN, JR.'S SON: The video I've seen last week is pretty much the same as what I've seen today. Just a few more details but he wasn't in the wrong at all. What's in the light -- what's in the dark is going to come to the light --
UNKNOWN: That's right.
FEREBEE: -- you know what I'm saying? It's going to be like that, he's going to get his justice because it wasn't even right. JHA'ROD FEREBEE, ANDREW BROWN, JR.'S SON: My father did not deserve to die at all. He did not deserve to get killed, in any way shape or form he did not pose any threat at all. Come court, there's no way that this could be justified, there is no way possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): I want to discuss now with Ben Crump. He is the attorney for Andrew Brown, Jr.'s family. Ben, thank you. I appreciate you joining us. How's the family doing after seeing that footage?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR BROWN FAMILY: Well, obviously, they still are agonizing over the fact that their father was killed in this most cowardly manner, Don. And the fact that they continue to toy with the public about being transparent. They know that there is no justification for this and the family believes that's why they are not releasing this video because they cannot figure out a narrative that would justify.
Yet again, another black man being shot from behind by the police who were supposed to protect and serve them.
LEMON: Yes. Ben, I was looking at my nose because I'm having trouble hearing, you know, I just want to make sure that we're in a red spot in case. Are you good now? I think he's good now, I think you're back. Can you hear me, Ben?
CRUMP: Can you hear me?
LEMON: Yes, I got you now.
CRUMP: Yes, I can.
LEMON: OK. So, Ben, the family's account of what they see on that video, it really contradicts what the D.A. Andrew Wobble -- Womble has said about the shooting. He is saying that deputies only fired once Brown drove towards them, but the family says the shots were fired before the car even moved, and not towards the officers. There is a major difference in those two accounts?
CRUMP: There is, Don. And does anybody in America believe that if Andrew Brown did something wrong, they wouldn't have already that video. It will be all over CNN, it will be all over everywhere. The fact that they continue to not being transparent, and not release this video tells us all we need to know, that this was an unjustified killing. And yet again, Don Lemon, there is another Black man being shot from behind in the back.
And that is the most cowardly thing you can do, again, professionalism and training, it is a cowardly thing to do to shoot a person in the back going away from you (AUDIO GAP) (Inaudible) -- who didn't pose a threat of violence, but they do it so much to Black people in America it's almost like it's a cliche.
LEMON: Yes. Hey, Ben, I'm having trouble again with your audio, but just before I let you go can you give me a quick answer on this. Where are you with the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act?
CRUMP: Yes. Don, we believe the families all expect there to be meaningful legislation that involves both criminal accountability and civil accountability. That means qualified immunity.
LEMON: All right. Ben Crump, again, sorry about the problems with your audio. And I thank you for joining us. We'll see you soon here on CNN. Thank you for joining.
CRUMP: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you. Senator Ted Cruz, making absurd comments about a bill that would expand voting rights, trying to claim that it would do the exact opposite. And you won't believe what he is invoking to try to make this argument, this bogus argument.
[22:50:00]
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LEMON (on camera): Take this. Senator Ted Cruz who moved to invalidate millions of votes in the 2020 election on January 6th with no proof of fraud or rigging says the House passed voting rights bill is Jim Crow 2.0.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): This legislation to use a phrase that has been popularized on the media recently is Jim Crow 2.0. This legislation would disenfranchise millions of Americans. The reason it suppresses millions of votes is by allowing millions of people to vote illegally. And that is the intended effect and that would be the actual effect of this bill. It dilutes the legal votes of American citizens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): When he said that allow millions of people to vote illegally, he didn't even believe it. Look at his face. You'll have to go back and look at it.
[22:55:02]
The bill will not let millions vote illegally. And by using words like dilute he's sounding a dog whistle to those who support the false and racist white replacement theory. Senator Ted Cruz who just went to kiss the ring of the twice impeached, two-time, popular vote losing former president sure sounds different than he used to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: This man is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. I don't get angry often, but you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that'll do it every time. Donald, you're a sniveling coward, leave Heidi the hell alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON (on camera): Sniveling coward, huh? That is not the same Ted Cruz we saw at the capitol today or the one who voted to overturn the election or for no valid reason. I guess we saw Senator Ted Cruz 2.0.
Congresswoman Liz Cheney making a bold and historic speech on the House floor on the eve of the vote to take away her GOP leadership role. She's making it clear she's not going away quietly.
[23:00:00]
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