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Don Lemon Tonight

Liz Cheney Calls Out Trump In House Speech, Saying Election Was Not Stolen, Trump Is Undermining Democracy; Department Of Justice Found No Evidence Of Election Fraud; Escalating Violence Between Israelis And Palestinians; CDC Director Defends Outdoor COVID Transmission Figure After NYT Report Calls It Misleading; After Blaming Cancel Culture, Trainer Of Medina Spirit Now Admits Kentucky Derby Winner Tested Positive For Steroid. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired May 11, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): A very powerful and historic speech on the House floor tonight by Congresswoman Liz Cheney hours before House Republicans are expected to oust her from her leadership post, for calling out Trump's big lie of election fraud. Saying the former president has misled millions of Americans and is undermining democracy.

A source saying that GOP conference vote tomorrow is expected to be lopsided against Cheney. And as that vote happens, former acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen will tell a Congressional hearing the Justice Department found no evidence of fraud in the 2020 election.

Also tonight the worst outbreak of deadly violence in years between Israelis and Palestinian militants in Gaza, Palestinians firing hundreds of rockets into Israel, which is returning fire with air strikes. We are going to see what's behind the escalating violence.

I want to bring in now CNN's Ryan Noble live for us -- Nobles -- excuse me, sir for mispronouncing your name -- live for us on Capitol Hill tonight. Ryan, good evening. Liz Cheney delivering defiant and powerful remarks on the House floor tonight. Talk to us about it.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGON CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes, Don, it did come as a bit of a surprise. We did not expect Liz Cheney to be giving this speech here tonight. It happened around 8:00 Eastern Time on the House floor. But when it was announced that she was going to give those remarks, what we expected her to do is exactly what she did, and that was to essentially double down on her defiance of those Republicans that have been critical of her -- in her -- unwillingness to buy into Donald Trump's big lie about the 2020 election.

And what she did on the House floor tonight was warn her fellow colleagues that by continuing to side with Trump that they were actually threatening the U.S. Constitution and democracy at its core. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (D-WY): Today we face a threat America has never seen before. A former president who provoked a violent attack on this Capitol in an effort to steal the election has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the election was stolen from him. He risks inciting further violence.

Millions of Americans have been misled by the former president. They have heard only his words but not the truth as he continues to undermine our Democratic process, sewing seeds of doubt about whether democracy really works at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES (on camera): And what's interesting about what Cheney had to say tonight is that she really boiled down the controversy around her. This is not whether or not she's a Republican, whether or not she has a conservative voting record.

It's really only about one thing, Don, and that is her unwillingness to capitulate to Donald Trump and this big lie that's the big dividing line between this very small group of Republicans that would like to move past Donald Trump in what has really become the overwhelming majority of Republicans on Capitol Hill that believe their only path to winning back the majorities in the House and Senate is with Donald Trump at their side.

LEMON: Ryan, big day tomorrow on Capitol Hill, huge day, of course. The GOP voting to push out Liz Cheney. But at the same time, former Trump officials will be setting the record straight on the election and on the insurrection as well. What do you expect at tomorrow's hearings?

NOBLES: Well, what we expect, Don, is for more truth to be told. You know, the former acting Secretary of Defense is going to talk about his concerns about sending troops up to deal with the insurrection on January 6th, because he was concerned that it may provide some sort of indication or, you know, a lack of understanding about what their responsibility was and people might misinterpret it as a military coup. That's how concerned they were about the level of violence that could happen here on Capitol Hill.

And we'll also hear testimony from top level officials in the Trump Justice Department that are going to once again emphatically say that there was just no evidence of widespread fraud throughout the country on election day.

This, despite the fact that Republicans continue to pedal that narrative over and over again not just here in Washington but in statehouses across the country, as we're seeing many of these laws changed that's going to have a direct impact on voting for the foreseeable future.

LEMON: Mr. Nobles with an s, thank you, sir. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon. I want to bring in now, CNN political commentator, Amanda Carpenter

and former Republican Congressman, Charlie Dent. Good evening to both of you. Amanda, Liz Cheney speaking the truth no matter the consequences. What do you think of her stance tonight?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SENATOR TED CRUZ AND THE AUTHOR OF GASLIGHTING AMERICA (on camera): I think it's great. We've been waiting so long for someone to do what Liz Cheney is doing now. And I know it's really popular to catastrophize things. And I'm not going to tell you that things are great in the GOP, but I see an opportunity for her to win and do a lot of good.

[23:05:10]

She's going to lose her leadership post. But after that point, she will be liberated to organize a pro- democracy faction, a bipartisan faction. I hope that can pass the January 6th commission to establish for the record any a bipartisan, credible way what happened and why on January 6th.

And that's a record that can stand to go into the midterms and hopefully maybe combat some of these election lies and speak to a significant maybe small bloc of Republican voters who, like me, like Liz Cheney, like Adam Kinzinger, like Charlie Dent, believe in the truth.

LEMON (on camera): Charlie, I want to play more of Liz Cheney's -- Congresswoman Cheney's powerful speech and then we'll talk about it, OK?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: I receive a message last week from a Gold Star father who said standing up for the truth honors all who gave all. We must all strive to be worthy of the sacrifice of those who have died for our freedom. This is at the heart of what our oath requires, that we love our country more, that we love her so much that we will stand above politics to defend her, that we will do everything in our power to protect our constitution and our freedom that has been paid for by the blood of so many. We must love America so much that we will never yield in her defense. That is our duty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, Congressman, Republicans say that they're getting rid of Cheney because she can't deliver a message. But that was quite a message.

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (on camera): Yes. It was a powerful -- a very powerful message. And the fact that so many are saying that she needs to be silenced because she can't stay on message, well, she didn't quite get that message. Well, look, the truth is, Don, that she is the one who is speaking truth, and she is the one who is being cancelled and silenced rather than the one who has been spreading the lies. And I find it easier to silence Liz Cheney rather than condemn the man

who's telling the lies. And that beautiful speech where the Gold Star parent talks about honor, well, there can't be any honor without honesty. And Liz is honest. And that's why there are so many of us on the outside, former Republican elected officials, other administration officials and thought leaders who have had enough of this.

And you know, we're putting out our own statement of principles later this week that we think need to be embraced and adopted because, you know, a lot of us are running out of patience. We lost patience some time ago. But after these events, it's time for a new direction for this party. We all know it. And a few of us want to move.

LEMON: Charlie, who was she trying to reach when she kept bringing up duty?

DENT: I think she's speaking to her colleagues. That they have a duty. They've sworn an oath to defend and uphold the constitution, which also means upholding the constitutional order and the rule of law. It means a number of things. And the fact that the former president continues to go out there spouting this myth, this lie about, that he somehow had the election stolen from him -- in fact he's the one who is actually trying to steal the election.

I mean, she's talking to them. She's telling them, it's time for you to stand up, speak truth, uphold your oath and do what you know is right. Because they all -- nearly all of them agree with her. They know she's right. I think many of them just find it uncomfortable and inconvenient that she keeps talking about it.

LEMON: Charlie, can I ask you something? Do you think they're all saying behind closed doors, and when Kevin McCarthy really talks, do you think they're saying, Liz, Liz, Liz, we know but we can't win without him. We need him to win. Can you just please -- can you just please get on board? Do you think those conversation are happening?

DENT: I think, some of those conversations are happening. But I tell you what, if I were sitting in that conference right now, I would be livid. The fact the National Republicans Congressional committee withhold polling data to show just how badly Donald Trump is polling in many of those swing and marginal districts they need to retake the majority.

LEMON: Got it.

DENT: You know, many of these members are sitting in very safe seats. All they need to do to hold their seats is to stay close to Trump. Bu for many of those members, at least enough of those members who will make a majority, they can't win by that calculation. And the fact that they're given that information from those members I think is doing a terrible disservice.

LEMON: Listen, Amanda is going to ask you about, you know, the members clearing out.

[23:10:00] Listen, a lot of members were not on the floor at that time. But, I

mean, some of them, they could have stood there out of respect and listened. But since Charlie said what he said, I want to ask you about my conversation I had with Republican pollster, Frank Luntz last night. He said Republicans can't win with Trump in 2022 and they can't win without him because his base is so loyal. Is this a lose/lose situation for your party? What is it?

CARPENTER: I mean, they're in a bind. So, you might as well do what is right. But I also don't accept this static idea that Trump is going to be the dominant force in 2024. That is a long time from now. A lot of things can happen. And I would just bet against that. I mean, he has an iron grip on the party right now, but that doesn't have to last forever.

And it certainly will not last forever if no one can make an argument against Liz Cheney. I mean, they can't even be in a room with her. But the most important part of that speech that I want to emphasize is that she was explaining to her colleagues that the threat is not over. Donald Trump still has not conceded to the election.

She has talked specifically about how he still risks further inciting more violence. The big lie is still an open question. And so that's something they need to consider, and she -- she's not going to back down from. That speech is about duty and country over party. So, that is not going away.

LEMON: I enjoyed this conversation. You know, I'll see you both soon. Thank you so much. Have a good night.

I want to bring in now someone who has known Kevin McCarthy since the '90s. And that is Mike Madrid. He is a longtime Republican political consultant, cofounder of the Lincoln Project. Mike, thanks for joining. Good to see you. You doing OK?

MIKE MADRID, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT, COFOUNDER, LINCOLN PROJECT (on camera): I'm doing great. How are you doing, Don?

LEMON (on camera): I'm doing very well. Thanks for asking. I want to start with Liz Cheney's powerful words on the House floor tonight. Listen and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: Every one of us who has sworn the oath must act to prevent the unraveling of our democracy. Remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. I will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in silence while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule of law and joins the former president's crusade to undermine our democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, Cheney was asked if she was referring to Kevin McCarthy in those remarks. Her response, I think my remarks speak for themselves. What do you think? You've known Kevin McCarthy for decades.

MADRID: I think one of the most remarkable things about this story is not just Liz Cheney. It is also Kevin McCarthy. And again, I've known Kevin, since we were young Republican fights together. One of the most amazing things about Kevin, he's truly a remarkable politician. He has an extraordinary set of skills and a remarkable ability to have a finger on the pulse of the Republican electorate.

It's why he's risen to such, you know, such heights so quickly in his career. But he's always done that. His whole career has been marked by pushing the extremist wing of the party back and trying to bring that party back into the center where elections are wrong.

At this moment in time when it is so close to getting that brass ring as potentially being the Speaker of the House in the midterm elections, it is very odd (inaudible) to capitulate to that wing of the party. As Amanda Carpenter said, you know, in the set up here, look, the Republican Party is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

They're stuck in a dead-end cul-de-sac where Trump only gets them so high with voter opinion and voter support levels. He's really a floor and a ceiling and that ceiling is no longer high enough to make them competitive, certainly as a nationally party. And we'll see arguably whether it's going to be enough to help them win the majority in the House in the midterms.

LEMON: It's the same thing that Frank Luntz, who is the numbers guy said last night on this program that they can't win with him and they can't win without him. You know, it's a weird catch 22. So, if Kevin McCarthy -- Kevin McCarthy has been around for a long time. You've known him, right? Forever.

MADRID: Yes.

LEMON: So, if he is, as you say, he is a guy that has built his career and reputation on fighting back the extremists, as you say, but now he is clearly siding with them, has he taken on this cult of personality or this me, me, me era that Trump has not -- I shouldn't say ushered in, but made popular in Washington with Republicans?

MADRID: That's a great question, Don. But notice they also said he also has the remarkable ability of keeping his finger on pulse where the Republican electorate is moving. And it's important to understand both. Because there's the real dilemma. This is not an easy situation.

I guess, for a politician, it's not an easy situation to be in. Some if us -- Liz Cheney, the others in the Lincoln Project stood up, k, months, years ago, everybody has their line. Everybody is reaching their line, I think, brick by brick, as we devolve and we deconstruct this Republican Party under Trump as it stands. Kevin is going to have to make that decision.

(CROSSTALK)

[23:15:09] LEMON: Are you saying he's an opportunist? Are you saying he's a

political chameleon? I mean, Lindsey Graham is definitely both. But are you saying, yes, he's both of those?

MADRID: No, I'm saying he's a very good tactician. In this moment, what is most important to Kevin is building a majority. And unfortunately, I think what he's doing is forgetting all of that value that he has built up throughout the course of his career and those principles that he stood that guided him to get him there. That's my concern about (inaudible) this moment in time. I will be lying if I didn't tell it is disappointing.

LEMON (on camera): I get it. I get it. I get it. Point well taken. I understand exactly what you're saying. So, back in early January, Mike, Liz Cheney, Kevin McCarthy actually agreed on the facts about the insurrection. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: We have no question that the president formed the mob. The president incited the mob. The president addressed the mob. He lit the flame.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for Wednesday attack on Congress by mob rioters. Some say the riots were caused by Antifa. There's absolutely no evidence of that. And conservatives should be the first to say so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): OK. So, just to dig in on the last point that we made, Kevin McCarthy flew to Mar-a-Lago at the end of January and was back saying whatever Trump wanted. Clearly this is -- I guess it's -- this is all about him becoming speaker. You say he's a brilliant tactician, but is this all about him becoming speaker? It's so transparent, but will it work?

MADRID: Well, first yes, it is all about him becoming speaker. And again, those of us who worked with candidates and politicians for a long time sometimes see this weird Alice in Wonderland type phenomenal, where the action starts to believe what they hope things to be rather than see the mess they were.

Look, Kevin McCarthy, if he's cold and sober about this does still agree as he said in the well of the House that today, what happened? We all saw it with our own eyes. And again, what we're watching as a politician in a very real time, somebody I've known again professionally for the better part of 2.5 decades, changed everything that built all the skills that got him to where he is literally moving in the opposite direction.

It is troubling. Will it work? Look, it possibly can work. But what it does mean -- and again as a Californian, Kevin should understand this better than anybody. These short-term victories ultimately will be catastrophic for the Republican Party in the midterms and in the long term. And that could be his legacy. That's what Kevin McCarthy needs to be

thinking about tonight and really examine everything that got him to where he got and how he's going to move this votes tomorrow against Congresswoman Cheney.

LEMON: Mike, you're not going to get off that easy because before I let you go, did you say -- I really enjoyed having you on and I really did. And I want to have you back because -- I mean, you speak plainly and truthfully, truth to power. Did you say everything you wanted to say? What would you say to the man you have known for more than two decades?

MADRID: I would say, Kevin, this is your moment. This vote is going to be how history defines you. This is a lot different than any of the past activities over the course of the past couple of years and this is why. Anybody who knows the Cheneys, anybody who's worked with the Cheneys knows that this is not the end for Liz Cheney. This is the beginning.

If she loses this vote, this is the beginning of a schism that you will not be able to pull back together in time to coddle a majority. What you can do is what Abraham Lincoln counseled, which is the premise that right is what makes might. Do what is right and build a majority off of that.

LEMON: Mike Madrid, thank you.

MADRID: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Liz Cheney talking tonight about how the lies threatened our democracy, but are they hurting our standing around the world?

Plus, tensions between Israelis and Palestinians reach a fever pitch with air strikes from Israel and a barrage of rockets from Gaza.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

LEMON: Hours before her House Republican colleagues are expected to oust Congresswoman Liz Cheney from her leadership post, she takes to the floor tonight to call out the former president's big lie of election fraud, declaring the election was not stolen and that Trump is undermining democracy. I want to discuss now with Fareed Zakaria, the host of Fareed Zakaria GPS. Good evening, sir. Thanks for joining.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Always a pleasure.

LEMON (on camera): So, I want to ask you about Liz Cheney, of course, defiant on the House floor tonight, making it clear to GOP leadership that going along with Trump lies threaten our democracy. Here it is. Then we'll talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: As the party of Reagan, Republicans have championed democracy, won the cold war and defeated the soviet communists. Today America is on the cusp of another cold war, this time with communist China. Attacks against our Democratic process and the rule of law empower our adversaries and feed communist propaganda that American democracy is a failure. We must speak the truth. Our election was not stolen, and America has not failed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Fareed, she's talking about how people see the U.S. as a beacon of democracy. Do the lies risk America's standing?

ZAKARIA: They don't really risk America's standing because so many people, like Liz Cheney, are standing up and telling the truth. I mean, the odd thing about Donald Trump has always been, ever since he ran in 2016, this was the guy who got elected trashing America, telling everybody how terrible things were in America, how America was a scam, how it was a fraud.

[23:25:06]

He was the most pessimistic candidate ever to be elected president. What Liz Cheney is doing is conveying the traditional, the much more traditional Republican message, which is faith in American democracy, faith in American society, and faith that America can triumph against all its adversaries foreign and domestic.

LEMON: Fareed, I want to talk now -- I've been wanting to talk to you about this, about what's happening with Israel and Gaza. I'm so glad that you're here to discuss. Rocket fire, airstrikes and a death toll certain to rise. How did this escalate just over just recent days?

ZAKARIA: It's pretty simple. The Trump administration's foreign policy toward the Middle East was to subcontract the entire region to two people. MBS, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia and by Bibi Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel. And each one pursued his own very narrow interest to the max. So, MBS starts a war in Yemen, escalates that war, tries to depose -- tries to get rid of Hezbollah in Lebanon, arrest the Prime Minister there, blockade Qatar that goes disastrously.

Bibi Netanyahu meanwhile was trying to do things that would make it as impossible for there ever to be a Palestinian state as he could do. So, he makes peace with some moderate gulf states with the help of the United States. And he had been essentially ruling out any possibility of any deal with the Palestinians.

So, after a while, I think what happened is there was a concern amount of frustration that you know, these events then get triggered by something or the other. But the reality is that Israel had almost forgotten that they had this Palestinian problem on their hands, and it has now exploded.

LEMON: Let's talk more about the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. There have been -- let's say, four elections in two years and he has repeatedly been unable to form a government. What impact does this have on this crisis -- this crisis as it have on the political situation there, I should say?

ZAKARIA: Well, a lot of people in Israel are pointing out it seems pretty suspicious or strange that this should happen right as it has happened now because it probably helps Bibi Netanyahu. It creates an atmosphere of crisis. It creates an atmosphere where people tend to move to the right. They're getting rockets hailed down upon you that are being shot by Hamas.

You're going to get more security conscious. And if all that happens, what it does for Benjamin Netanyahu is very personal. If he can stay in the Prime Minister's office, he does not have to face the corruption charges that threaten to put him into prison.

LEMON: It is. We have some of the video up, and there's more I'm sure. It's stunning to see the video of Israel's air defense system intercepting incoming rockets from Gaza. An Israeli defense forces spokesperson told Wolf Blitzer earlier that they're going to make Hamas pay for the aggression toward Israel, following rocket fire towards Tel Aviv. How long could the violence we're seeing last there?

ZAKARIA: Ultimately not very long because Israel is by far the more powerful party. There is a massive asymmetry of power here. The truth of the matter is Israel is in no danger of collapsing, of being convulsed by terrorism. Israel is the most powerful nation in the Middle East by far. It is essentially a regional superpower.

So, what the Palestinians, I mean, they're frustrated, they're trying to get some kind of attention. They, in my opinion often do self- defeating things. These kind of rocket attacks only move Israelis to the right.

But ultimately this thing is only going to be solved if Israel decides that it wants to -- as a matter of morality, it wants to give rights to Palestinians, that it does not believe that it can be a Jewish Democratic state and have these four million people living essentially in conditions where they have no political rights and Israel, you know, has control over them. It's not going to happen by force. Israel is just too strong.

LEMON: Fareed Zakaria, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.

ZAKARIA: My pleasure.

LEMON: Be sure to check out Fareed Zakaria GPS, Sunday at 10:00 a.m. And again at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. And also, make sure you join Fareed, Sunday night for an in depth look at the changing Republican Party. How did it become what it is today, A radical rebellion: the transformation of GOP, begins Sunday, 8:00 p.m. It's all Fareed Zakaria morning and at night. So make sure you tune in.

[23:30:00]

The CDC getting pushback after appearing to overstate the risk of catching COVID outdoors. If the guidance is confusing, let's try to clear it up, and we are going to do that after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Tonight, the CDC is getting called out for confusion about wearing masks outdoors for people who already been fully vaccinated. A report in The New York Times says guidance released by the CDC last month is misleading. So, let's talk about proper mask use as more Americans become fully vaccinated.

I want to bring in now CNN contributor Erin Bromage, associate professor of biology at University of Massachusetts Dartmouth.

[23:35:03]

LEMON: Good evening, sir. Good to see you.

ERIN BROMAGE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF BIOLOGY AT UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS DARMOUTH: Good evening. Good to see you, too.

LEMON: So, last month, when the CDC put out updated guidance for mask wearing, the CDC director said that less than 10 percent of transmission was happening outdoors. That sounds like a one in ten infections -- it sounds like one in ten infections are happening outdoors. But that's wrong. There are no known cases of outdoor transmission except for one where it was a face-to-face conversation. So, talk to me about the dangers in overstating a figure like this.

BROMAGE: Yes. So, it's amazing that a single number can be both correct and misleading, and that's really what this is. Yes, it's less than 10 percent, but is it closer to 10 percent or is it closer to zero? And from what we've seen right throughout the world with -- you know, even in places with great contact tracing data, it's closer to .1 percent than it would be to 10 percent.

So, this is really giving that wrong message about what is safe and what is not safe for people to do whether you're vaccinated or not. We have known for a very, very long time that being outdoors, even when it is crowded, not crazy crowded but crowded, is much, much safer than being indoors in those same situations.

LEMON: Today, Senator Susan Collins pushed CDC Director Rochelle Walensky --

BROMAGE: Yeah.

LEMON (on camera): -- on that 10 percent figure. This is how Walensky responded. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROCHELLE WALENSKY, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: There's a meta-analysis from Journal of Infectious Diseases that was published in November, I believe, where the top line result of all -- all studies that were included in the systemic review said less than 10 percent of cases were transmitted outdoors.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON (on camera): Is the CDC losing credibility with the public, Erin?

BROMAGE: It's hard. They're under a ton of pressure. Everybody is arm- chairing them to see whether, you know, whether they're right and wrong. The study exists. It's what the study says. But the study -- I've seen other studies, and yes, they did find a lot of what was classified as outdoor transmission in one particular study that was approaching near 10 percent.

But it was clear that when you look at that study, it was both indoors and outdoors, they just classified it as outdoors and it was in a building site in Singapore. So, you know, it's, again, correct but misleading.

When we start looking at the data, you know, we can look at the U.S., we can look at the U.K., and we can look at everywhere they're looking and doing contact tracing, it is ridiculously hard to find definitive cases of outdoor transmission.

If they don't start messaging correctly and messaging to the situation on the ground that is happening today, they need to be a little bit more nimble, they really are going to lose both their trust and credibility in the U.S. community.

LEMON: There's been a lot of pushback, as you know, on CDC guidance recently, specifically for summer camps, right? Summer is coming up. Kids are going to camps, what have you. Some are calling that their guidance is draconian. Is the CDC being overly cautious, do you think, and maybe too cautious?

BROMAGE: Well, it really did actually like what Dr. Walensky said today, which was -- she mentioned that when camps were looking at being closed last May, we had 24,000 cases per day, and right at the moment, we've got between 30 and 40,000 cases per day.

So, if we look at things and say all things are equal being kids, which we know these young kids at camp are not vaccinated, if we made that decision back then, there's going to be a time to stop and pause now and look at it and say, is this the right decision now?

But we've also got 12 months of data to say yes, kids can get infected. They do not get as sick as adults. But certainly, a camp can be a hot spot for infection if it's not done correctly.

And I think that that's what they're trying to say, is camps can be done and they can be done in a safe fashion, but they need to be done correctly in order to not have the camp closed two weeks into the summer.

LEMON: Erin, does anybody -- I still -- I only have this -- I wear this when, you know, when -- for out of courtesy when I'm outdoors for other people. Inside, I wear it. But is this -- should people be doing -- need to wear masks outdoors anymore?

BROMAGE: So, I carry a mask with me. I'm fully vaccinated and I know the data. I carry a mask with me so that if I get into a situation where it is very crowded and I'm a little uncomfortable --

LEMON: I hear you, yep.

BROMAGE: -- if I have to -- yeah, quite often I think I'm just going to be outside, but something diverts me to go and, you know, I get the phone call from the wife saying to go and pick up milk, I have to go inside.

[23:40:06]

BROMAGE: So, I have masks with me. But I do not wear masks outside unless it's being mandated and that mandate needs to drop. We know enough now to know that transmission outside is not a high risk. It should disappear right across the country right now.

LEMON: So, get used to the room. You're going to be on the couch for calling her "the wife" on -- on national television.

(LAUGHTER)

BROMAGE: Yep. Thankfully it's late enough at night. I don't have to worry about her seeing it.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you, Erin. Be well. I appreciate it.

BROMAGE: Good night, Don.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:45:00]

LEMON (on camera): Congresswoman Liz Cheney's speech on the House floor tonight was a moment in history and a profile in courage. Just hours before her own party is all but certain to kick her out of her leadership role for standing up for the truth, if they thought they would silence her, they didn't, and I want you to hear the whole thing. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Today, we face a threat America has never seen before. A former president who provoked a violent attack on this Capitol in an effort to steal the election has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the election was stolen from him.

He risks inciting further violence. Millions of Americans have been misled by the former president. They have heard only his words, but not the truth, as he continues to undermine our democratic process, sowing seeds of doubt about whether democracy really works at all.

I am a conservative Republican, and the most conservative of conservative principles is reverence for the rule of law.

The Electoral College has voted. More than 60 state and federal courts, including multiple judges the former president appointed, have rejected his claims. The Trump Department of Justice investigated the former president's claims of widespread fraud and found no evidence to support them. The election is over. That is the rule of law. That is our constitutional process.

Those who refuse to accept the rulings of our courts are at war with the Constitution. Our duty is clear. Every one of us who has sworn the oath must act to prevent the unraveling of our democracy. This is not about policy. This is not about partisanship. This is about our duty as Americans.

Remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. I will not participate in that. I will not sit back and watch in silence while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule of law and joins the former president's crusade to undermine our democracy.

As the party of Reagan, Republicans have championed democracy, won the Cold War, and defeated the Soviet communists. Today, America is on the cusp of another Cold War, this time with communist China. Attacks against our democratic process and the rule of law empower our adversaries and feed communist propaganda that American democracy is a failure. We must speak the truth. Our election was not stolen and America has not failed.

I received a message last week from a Gold Star father who said, standing up for the truth honors all who gave all. We must all strive to be worthy of the sacrifice of those who have died for our freedom. They are the patriots.

Katherine Lee Bates described in the words of "America the Beautiful," when she wrote, o beautiful for heroes proved in liberating strife, who more than self their country loved, and mercy more than life.

Ultimately, Mr. Speaker, this is at the heart of what our oath requires, that we love our country more, that we love her so much that we will stand above politics to defend her, that we will do everything in our power to protect our Constitution and our freedom that has been paid for by the blood of so many. We must love America so much that we will never yield in her defense. That is our duty. Thank you.

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LEMON (on camera): Congresswoman Liz Cheney on the House floor tonight, the day before they take her position of power away in the Republican Party, her leadership position. They will vote tomorrow.

The trainer for the Kentucky Derby winner, Medina Spirit, yesterday blaming cancel culture for his horse failing to -- failing a drug test, I should say. Turns out, not surprisingly, it was something else entirely.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON: Take this update on the story I told you about last night. It wasn't cancel culture after all. It actually was a steroid. That word today from Bob Baffert, the Hall of Fame trainer of Medina Spirit, the winner of the Kentucky Derby. After the colt won the prestigious race, it tested positive for elevated levels of an anti-inflammatory steroid, a drug which is allowed to be used but only in limited amounts.

As we showed you last night, Baffert initially blamed the doping allegation on cancel culture, denying the horse was treated with a steroid.

[23:55:06]

LEMON: Well, we now know cancel culture has nothing to do with what's going on. In fact, this is serious business in the world of racing. Medina Spirit could be stripped of its derby win. Further test will be done.

Baffort is admitting today in a statement that the horse was treated for dermatitis with a drug containing the steroid. Medina Spirit is scheduled to run this Saturday in the Preakness Stakes, the second leg of racing's Triple Crown. The horse will be given a pre-race drug test. The results will be known on Friday. Baffert, by the way, now banned from entering any of his horses in races at Churchill Downs, home of the derby.

So now you know. And thanks for watching. Our coverage continues.

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