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Don Lemon Tonight

CDC, Fully Vaccinated People Can Stop Wearing Masks; CNN Film, Race For The Vaccine; Officer Michael Fanone Speaks Out On The CNN Exclusive Video Of The Insurrection At The Capitol, GOP Members Of Congress Trying To Whitewash The Deadly Capitol Attack On January 6; Hero Officer Beaten During Capitol Riot Calls Out Politicians Who Refuse to Admit the Facts on January 6; Black Drivers Say They're Target by Police Because of Air Fresheners Dangling from Rear-View Mirrors; Prince Harry on Life in the Royal Family. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired May 13, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Tonight, a major turning point in our long battle against COVID-19. The CDC saying Americans who are fully vaccinated no longer need to wear a mask indoors or outdoors, except in certain circumstances.

President Joe Biden calling it a great day, Republicans in Congress trying to downplay the deadly Capitol insurrection as hero D.C. police officer Michael Fanone right here in this show tonight described the horrible violence he experienced, and CNN obtained bodycam video showing just how violent the attack was.

Also, tonight, Prince Harry in a candid interview compares royal life to living in a zoo. He has a lot more to say and we'll hear it all ahead.

Now I want to turn -- I want to bring in now CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, thanks for joining tonight. There's a lot going on. It's a huge announcement by the CDC after more than a year of masks, of distancing, fear of spreading the virus, people who have been vaccinated now have way less restrictions. How important is this moment?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a big moment, Don, I mean, it in some ways, I didn't think we would get to this moment anytime soon and certainly not this soon. I mean, in some ways it feels early, really, for this. I was just talking to folks at the CDC last week, and they were saying, it's likely that indoor masking is still going to be recommended for some time to come. I thought maybe even into the summer.

So, it felt sudden. But it also seems to follow the science. The three big questions, you know, the vaccines, they protect you from getting sick. We've known that since the trials came out. We now know the vaccines limit your chance of becoming infected. So, you're not likely to become infected after you've had the vaccine. And I think the critical thing that we learned just over the past few

weeks, Don, is that even if you've been vaccinated and get infected, that the likelihood that you would then be able to spread the virus to somebody else is really, really low. And I think that that's what really pivoted the CDC towards saying, OK, if you're vaccinated you really no longer need to wear a mask.

LEMON: How did they find that out? How did they figure it out, Sanjay?

GUPTA: You know, they watched the case numbers fall over time, they've seen what's happened here. We're still in it, Don. I just want to be clear about that, 600 people roughly died today. I mean, you know, any other day, that's two plane crashes, right? Any other time that would be horrifying but compared to what it was, the numbers have come way down.

But I think that they've just been following these scientific studies for some time. If I could show you, I don't know if we have this graphic from Israel, they alluded to this during a press conference today, but basically it shows that after two weeks, after the second shot your chance of getting a symptomatic infection, protection is 94 percent.

But the asymptomatic infection, I don't even know I have it, that sort of infection, 90 percent protected. So, that's really good. I think when they started to look at all this data, that's what triggered these changes.

LEMON: And weren't medical workers part of the study?

GUPTA: Yes. So they were following medical workers, in Israel, they were following -- in a couple of other studies, general care population as well. So, it was a variety of people. But they had a pretty good cross section and they had a good idea that they were likely going to see a significant drop in infections overall, but I think what really -- it wasn't that it surprised them, but what they really noticed was that they weren't seeing any of this secondary infections as well.

LEMON: All right, the reason I hunkered down on that, if that's an actual term, but, you know, we'll go with it. Because with these medical workers wouldn't they be wearing masks, so how do they know if it was a vaccine, and not the vaccines plus the masks, preventing transmission? I guess you could say every little bit helps but how did they determine which was more effective?

GUPTA: Yes, no, it's -- some of those situations, people were wearing masks, and indoors, obviously, for -- during this whole COVID time, wherever you are, you've been wearing masks, but I think they followed these health care workers in and out of their communities, they followed them over time. So, you know, even health care workers, when they say, OK, health care workers have a certain rate of infection, often times it's hard to say exactly where they got it just because you're a health care worker doesn't mean you're obviously always in the hospital. So like in schools for example, they were seeing that the community

rate of transmission was often higher in the community versus in the schools and people who were getting positive diagnoses were often getting it not while they were in the school but in the community and the same thing with the hospital workers.

So masks, obviously, play a big difference in terms of curbing transmission, but in this case they came to the conclusion that it was the vaccine reducing the likelihood of actually having a high enough viral load in the body. Even if you got an infection your viral load couldn't rise to the point where you could still transmit it.

[23:05:14]

LEMON: OK. So here's the president today talking about the new guidance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The rule is very simple. Get vaccinated, or wear a mask until you do. If you're not vaccinated, or not fully vaccinated, you should wear a mask for your own protection and the protection of other unvaccinated people. The choice is yours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So it seems like there's a real risk of people who did not get vaccinated, no longer wearing masks and spreading the virus, I mean, is it a good idea to rely on the honor system in this situation? Because I know, Sanjay, quite frankly, as walking my dogs today, dropped my mask and then all of a sudden, I couldn't find it and I felt like I'd lost my security blanket, right. That's a real thing.

But I'm wondering, I'm walking around without a mask. No one is asking me if I'm fully vaccinated. I'm not asking the next person if they are fully vaccinated. This is indeed the honest system, and you don't know if people are telling the truth, if they are being honest.

GUPTA: I think it's going to be a real issue, Don. I think you and I will have conversations about tense situations this may cause now because of the honor system. Let me make a distinction between outdoors and indoors. You're outside walking your dog. I think that it's pretty clear now, on other data, other than the data we were just talking about, that outdoor transmission is really, really unlikely, maybe basically nonexistent.

There have been a few possible confirmed cases of outdoor transmission but it's really unlikely. So, I don't think outdoor masking is really necessary anymore, frankly if you're vaccinated, or even unvaccinated because the virus just doesn't spread that way. I know that's jarring to hear for people. But we live and learn. That's how we learned about these things. Not all viruses behave the same.

But I think the honor system things are going to be really tricky, Don. I mean, I think that this is a social science experiment in some ways, there's these technology companies that are trying to develop apps so that you can show, like a TSA pre-check sort of you know, sort of model where you can say I'm vaccinated, and you can go into a certain line and get through things quicker and not have to wear a mask.

Other people say that's an infringement because it's health care information. The federal government's not going to mandate this. But let's say, Don, you're going into on a indoor concert sometime this summer, it is possible that if you have proof of vaccination in some way, that you'll be, you know, in a different line, and not have to wear a mask, whereas people who don't have that proof will have to wear a mask.

We could be in that sort of dichotomy at some point. So, we'll see. But I think the next few months are going to be really interesting given how the CDC is approaching this.

LEMON: Yes. That's going to be real -- especially you know, even now, I mean, as you know, certain buildings, like there's a little workout room in my building and people come in, and sometimes they're masked and sometimes they're not. Ask them to put the mask on, most of them will comply, while others will walk in and say, hey, I'm fully vaccinated, do you mind if I don't wear the mask?

So, I mean, it's been the honor system I think happening probably privately but now when you're in public spaces, I think things are obviously, as you said, we're going to be relying on that, which is -- we'll see. Time will tell and the data will bear it out.

Eight members of the New York Yankees have tested positive for COVID, Sanjay, all of them have been fully vaccinated. What do you think is going on here? They are -- they test positive but then they can't -- it's not enough to spread, right?

GUPTA: Yeah, I think there's two things to keep in mind here, one, it was interesting, I followed the story of the Yankees, so these -- this is a group of people who get tested regularly even if they've been vaccinated. It's part of their protocol. Remember most people who have been vaccinated probably aren't getting tested or certainly not getting tested regularly.

They get tested regularly, and as you point out eight of them come back positive despite having been vaccinated. I think it tells us two things. One is that these breakthrough infections happen and frankly they may be happening at a higher rate than we even realize but the larger point is that they really didn't get sick. I think, one person had mild symptoms, but mostly they didn't get sick and what you just said, they're not likely at all to then be able to spread the virus according to the studies --

LEMON: That means the vaccine is working.

GUPTA: That means the vaccine is working. That means you've got enough of these antibodies in your body that even if the virus gets into your body, the antibodies get to work so the virus can't start to replicate and get to a load high enough that it could then spread from you to someone else and infect someone else. That's sort of the key. People thought that might be the case. They hoped that might be the case, they want it to prove that was the case. And that's the proof that the CDC sort of put forth today.

LEMON: And also, remember, these guys are -- they're all together, so if one of them gets it, there is a chance that another one -- because they're in a bubble together, that's the whole point of it, right? To try to keep them safe but if they're in that bubble together that means that they are going to be in close confines and they probably give it to each other. Am I wrong about that?

[23:10:00]

GUPTA: Exactly. No.

LEMON: OK.

GUPTA: No, that's exactly right. I mean, I would be curious, I don't know if they were wearing masks or not, I mean, these are other details that could be important, but the basic premise is right, they were vaccinated, they still got infected. People say, well, the vaccine doesn't work, no, no, no, the vaccine was designed to really prevent you from getting seriously ill, which it does very well.

Now we also know that it can prevent you from -- or at least decrease the likelihood that you'll get infected, and certainly decrease the likelihood that you will develop an infection that's big enough to actually spread to somebody else?

LEMON: So now I want to talk to you about this. Because you've got a new CNN special, airs on Saturday at 9:00 p.m. And it's called obviously, Race for the vaccine, a clip, and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA (voice over): Dallas team gave the world the first glimpse of its new enemy. Each coronavirus particle filled with genetic instructions called RNA, and covered in a corona, or crown of protein spikes, inhale one of these viruses, and the spikes latch onto cells in our airways. The spikes then change shape, fusing the virus and the cell together. At this point the virus can replicate, and fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So when you compare those first days, we were learning about the virus, to now having three vaccines in the U.S., tons of supply, you know, we've got the whole thing about the masks. That sounds like an incredible scientific accomplishment.

GUPTA: They called it the moon shot, Don. At first, I thought that was an exaggeration, too much hyperbole, it's incredible. I mean, I don't think anybody really thought that we would have three authorized vaccines within basically a year of identifying the genetic sequence of this.

So, it's a pretty incredible story. These scientists all over the world, on five continents, following these teams, they are all making their bets, their gambles to try and figure out what would work and it was a race. It really was a race to the vaccine, to see who would get there first. And we know how that race ends but the story along the way is incredible.

And I've got to say, Don, you know, you and I have talked about this before, but these vaccines, they save lives, there's countries around the world that simply don't have them. I have a lot of relatives in India, they wish they had these vaccines, 2 percent to 3 percent of the country have been vaccinated. People are dying. I have an uncle who died and he's a little bit younger than my dad.

I was talking to my dad the other day, and he said, you know, if he was still in India, he probably wouldn't have been able to get the vaccine. And he would have had the same fate as my uncle. And if my uncle was here in the states, he probably would have been able to get the vaccine and probably be still alive today.

I mean, its' amazing to me, Don, it's heartbreaking in a way, but its amazing to me how ell this vaccines work, how much people want them and in some places, we can't give them away, like in some communities here in the states.

LEMON: I think Sanjay, I heard you earlier, you say, you're 71 years old, right.

GUPTA: Yes.

LEMON: He got tested positive at the beginning of the week and by the end of the week he was gone.

GUPTA: Yup, he got sick on a Tuesday, he died by Thursday. This is two weeks ago now, and it was very shocking. It was like a -- like a trauma death.

LEMON: Sanjay, I'm so sorry for you loss and we're thinking about everyone. Your relatives, and everyone in India, because they're really -- they're really in a bad way right now. Sanjay, you've got the book -- what's the name of your book again?

GUPTA: Keep sharp.

LEMON: Keep sharp. You've got keep sharp, you've got chasing life, your new podcast and then you have this special that airs this weekend on Saturday at 9:00 p.m. Sanjay, you're a busy man, we need you right now. You stay safe, thank you, sir.

GUPTA: Thanks for having me, Don, anytime.

LEMON: Now I want to turn to the brutal truth about the Capitol insurrection, the truth you heard tonight from an American hero, Officer Michael Fanone who was attacked by insurrectionist as he tried to defend the Capitol. That as some Republicans are trying to whitewash what happened.

Joining me now is former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman, and CNN political commentator, Amanda Carpenter. Good evening to both of you, so good to have you on. Congressman Riggleman, listen to what D.C. Metropolitan police officer Michael Fanone told me just moments ago about how his experiences changed him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FANONE, MPD OFFICER: It's definitely changed my perspective on quite a few things. You know, like I still -- I am who I am. You know, I'm a free born son of America. You know, I make my own decisions about different issues, whether it's politically or personally. Nobody tells me what to think, how to think. But I recognize like the dangerousness of political rhetoric and how it, you know, resulted in the violence that we saw on January 6th at the Capitol.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:15:10]

LEMON: Congressman, when you hear Officer Fanone speak out like this, do you think it will do anything to make Republicans recognize the danger?

FMR. REP. DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R-VA): I hope it would but, you know, we've been seeing videos since January 6th, and, you know, I haven't told a lot of people this, Don, but a good friend of mine I graduated with in high school was with Capitol police, I knew so many of them. They protected me. I went on trips with them. I've talked to a few of them and there's a little bit of shock -- shell shock that people aren't believing the violence that they witnessed that day, and listening to Officer Fanone, if we haven't changed minds in the last four months, I don't know what else to do.

I would hope that everybody and every office would have a visit from him and talk to him about his experience. I think if that happened, I think it might change some minds. But you talk about rhetoric and you talked about an idea of what happened down on the Capitol, it's so baked in right now, Don, that I don't know if anybody's going to change their mind and I think it's a shame, as we should be protecting law enforcement.

I think the best thing about Congress, what you can do in Congress, is have a voice, it's to protect those who protect you. And right now, I feel like we're letting them down, and it breaks my heart to see something like that. I served in the military, he served to protect me. It's an oath that you take to serve and protect. Or to protect the constitution. And I feel like we're letting them down right now with our own oath to the constitution.

LEMON: I still have a question, man, because you know, I speak to him almost every day, just a couple days after the insurrection and today I spoke -- he was on Capitol Hill, he sounded down, and then during the interview earlier he said, you know, every time I tell the story, it's like a piece of me, you know, goes away. I'm sure you saw it. And it's just -- he is basically screaming at people to believe their own eyes, and their own ears. And so, I mean, do you think this is going to change anything? It's just unfathomable. AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's not on him. It's on

us. I mean, I had the same reaction listening to him talk. I was just thinking, it is disgraceful that he has to go door to door on Capitol Hill asking people to believe what is so clearly on tape. That's not on him, Don, that's on us. And I do think that there are many Republicans that want to whitewash this and make it go away. If they're allowed to do that, that's our fault.

LEMON: Right.

CARPENTER: You know, this is part of my work that I try to do at The Bulwark, I have friends that are working with Republican accountability project. Denver is involved in a lot of things. It's on us to make sure that people don't turn away from this. There's a long time between now and the next election. I refuse to accept the idea that this cake is baked, because a lot of these members, they can run from this question for a little while but they can't hide forever. They will go on the record, they will be held accountable and we will make sure this never happens again. I refuse to accept any other reality.

LEMON: Let's play what we were just talking about, Amanda, here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (voice over): You were on Capitol Hill today. What was that like?

FANONE: It was -- it's exhausting. You know, telling that story is exhausting. Every time I get out there and speak publicly, or really just speak to anybody, I feel like I got to leave a piece of myself there, and I just -- I'm never going to get that back. Like, I'm getting tired. I hope that, you know, me speaking out publicly, inspires other people, other officers, you know, other members of Congress, staff members, whoever, if you had an experience on January 6th, you know, it's time for everybody to come forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Congressman, Amanda's right, I mean, and if we let people forget, especially those of us who have a platform and a voice, you're a former lawmaker, it is on us. I mean, what he said was astounding.

RIGGLEMAN: We're accountable. You know, and -- you know, I -- no, I have stories in my life, right, when you're a military veteran and things that I've seen that when you tell them, when somebody wants to know about them, you are exhausted and what he went through, not only the physical pain, but the mental pain of having that type of assault done to him. Thinking he's going to die.

LEMON: Not just him.

RIGGLEMAN: Not just him, right. Not just him. Fellow officers, people that he shares with. I know that feeling of thinking you're going to die. I know that. And when I hear him I get emotional. And that's why I'm having a little it of a tough time tonight, and I apologize, Don, but, you know, I've been through times where you're to a point where you're like, well, this is it, you know, we're good. I'm done.

[23:20:01]

And when you get there and you come out on the other side, there's an exhaustion and a mental issue that sometimes you go through that I went through, took me about six to eight months, where you think you're cool but you're not. And then when you have to restate that story over and over you're trying to get people to listen to you, I can't imagine what that's like.

Because I didn't have that, right, Don. You know, I don't have people who weren't believing me, I didn't have people that said that was just a tourist trip, whatever that knuckle head said the other day, you know, about saying it was no different than a tour, right, and that's the thing that you have problems with, is I want to use much stronger language, Don, about this, I want to use stronger language than knuckle head, you know, or you know, somebody who's ignorant about this.

But the thing, we have to keep our dignity as we go forward. And Amanda made an incredible point that at some point the people have to stand up and we have to hold those accountable that won't listen to people like Michael Fanone, and the officers there, the metropolitan police, the Capitol police. Those who hated everybody that day. So, I think there's an emotional component to this. I love the guy for what he did. And I'd like to have a whiskey with him and talk to him. I really would.

LEMON: Well, we'll see if we can arrange that. Thank you. Amanda, thanks for putting it in perspective. I mean, that's a great way of putting it. It's on us. It is on us to make sure --

CARPENTER: And we can do something about it.

LEMON: And we can do something about it.

Thank you, Amanda. We'll see you soon. Thank you, Congressman, we will see you as well. I appreciate it.

Republican after Republican trying to whitewash the deadly insurrection, what can we do to stop the lies and misinformation? A hero police officer Michael Fanone telling me this tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANONE: Those are lies. And peddling that bullshit is an assault on every officer that fought to defend the Capitol. It's disgraceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:25:00]

LEMON: Some GOP members of Congress trying to whitewash the deadly attack on the Capitol, despite police officers like Michael Fanone describing the horrible violence they experienced. Let's discuss now with Brendan Nyhan, he is a professor of government at Dartmouth College, thank you, professor, I appreciate you joining us.

BRENDAN NYHAN, PROFESSOR OF GOVERNMENT AT DARTMOUTH COLLEGE: My pleasure.

LEMON: I want to play this clip, it's from my interview with MPD Officer Michael Fanone responding to lawmakers and others who are downplaying the insurrection, misleading Americans about what happened. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANONE: I'm not interested in getting into like political squabbles. I'm not a politician, I'm not an elected official. I don't expect anybody to give too shits about my opinions. But I will say this, you know, those are lies. And peddling that bullshit is an assault on every officer that fought to defend the Capitol. It's disgraceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Brendan, we have videos of the events firsthand, firsthand accounts of what happened. Indictments against the rioters, yet there's still so much denial. Why don't people believe what they see with their own eyes?

NYHAN: It's pretty remarkable, but you know, memories are short, people don't pay very close attention to politics most of the time. And I think we're already seeing that crystallizing moment that happened after January 6th fading. Officer Fanone is an incredible spokesperson to help people remember, but, you know, I think for a lot of people it's already slipping away. There's so much going on with COVID and everything else, and unfortunately, people -- you know, they're not paying attention, they've be forgot, and you know, partisanship is a hell of a drug.

Like, there's a lot of reasons that people might want to minimize what took place on that day. But ultimately, you know, we can't blame people for being human being. We're all vulnerable to misinformation. The people I really fault are the members of Congress who were there on January 6th, who know what happened, and who are now minimizing or whitewashing or even denying what took place.

You know, people trust them. People trust -- people have sources they trust, and those sources are giving them terrible information. And it's helping us move past something we can't move past, the violent insurrection to overturn the results of an election, a Democratic election in this country. It's remarkable to me that we're just a few months afterwards and we barely talk about it.

You know, they could have killed the vice president of the United States. They could have killed the Speaker of the House. That could have been a cataclysmic event, and even as it was, it was a tragedy.

LEMON: Is there something about Americans that make us so susceptible to disinformation? NYHAN: Well, we're obviously extremely polarized. And that doesn't

help. You know, people are going to have information sources they trust. And, you know, if those sources aren't giving them good information, right, if they're not either changing the subject or talking about something else, or denying or whitewashing what took place, then unfortunately it may be hard to reach people.

That's why people like Officer Fanone are so important. Because he can speak credibly to lots of kinds of people. He has no political interest in this issue as he said, right, other than just making sure that it's not forgotten. And I think that's quite powerful and maybe that's something that can break through.

LEMON: How can we reverse course here and get people to stop buying into disinformation, and to think more critically, really?

NYHAN: Well, I think we can do a lot to promote media literacy. That's something that I think educators are starting to think about how to address more effectively, the k-12 level and in college, but of course we have most of the adult population that is already out of the formal education system and we have to think about them too.

So, there are things that social media platforms can do, and certainly things that media organizations can do as far as not amplifying misinformation and not having people on air who will lie to their viewers, I think that's a really important step.

[23:30:00]

NYHAN: But ultimately, we also need political incentives to be accurate, right, to not lie to the public, and that means defeating people, you know, causing them to suffer political consequences that will dissuade future politicians from lying to us.

Unfortunately, the incentives right now aren't right. We had a president, you know, tell the -- you know, make false statements more than 20,000 times. You know, right now, that's -- you know, he rode the birther myth to the White House. In those -- under those circumstances, how can we be surprised when other politicians follow that same playbook?

So, I do think we need to rebalance those incentives and that's going to put the burden on all of us to hold those politicians accountable. I will just say this. Hold them accountable when they're on your side, right? It's easy to say that people on the other side who are lying are bad, right? It's harder to say it about the people on your own side, but that's what we depend on, right?

LEMON: Yeah, I agree.

NYHAN: And we need folks like Denver Riggleman and Amanda Carper speaking out -- Carpenter -- speaking about people on their own side. I think that's a powerful step.

LEMON: Professor Brendan Nyhan, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us. I loved what you had to say, your perspective. We'll have you back. Thanks.

NYHAN: Thank you.

LEMON: So a study shows Black drivers are stopped and searched more than white drivers. We'll look at how one low-level infraction draws officer's eyes.

Plus, Prince Harry in a stunning new interview, speaking out about why he really left the royal family. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Something as simple as an air freshener hanging from a rear view mirror can get drivers pulled over by police and those traffic stops can go horribly wrong for Black drivers. Here's CNN's Nick Watt.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The law in some states says that's enough to get you pulled over, an air freshener dangling from your rearview mirror. Daunte Wright told his mom that's why he was stopped before an officer fatally shot him. Cops say he was stopped for expired tags. Then they noticed the air freshener and found an outstanding warrant.

Either way, Minnesota's ACLU is concerned about police using low-level infractions as an excuse for pretextual stops.

When Phil Colbert was stopped by a deputy down in Arizona in 2019 --

PHIL COLBERT, PULLED OVER BY POLICE: He was following me for 20 minutes.

WATT (voice-over): Colbert hit record on his phone.

COLBERT: Can I ask you why you stopped me?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): So you can't have anything ranging from your rear view mirror.

COLBERT: OK.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Really.

COLBERT: Yeah, it obstructs the driver's view.

WATT (voice-over): Soon, a relentless line of questioning begins.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Any marijuana in the car?

COLBERT: No.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): OK. Do you smoke marijuana?

COLBERT: No.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Mr. Colbert, when was the last time you smoked marijuana?

COLBERT: I never smoked.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Never?

COLBERT: I never said that (ph).

UNKNOWN (voice-over): OK. Whether you smoked a few days ago --

COLBERT: I didn't smoke. I don't smoke.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Nothing at all?

COLBERT: I don't smoke.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): OK. No other illegal drugs?

COLBERT: No.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Do you have a medical marijuana card?

COLBERT: No. I don't need it because I don't smoke.

BENJAMIN TAYLOR, PHIL COLBERT'S ATTORNEY: He should have let Phil go after the first question. He didn't find or see anything wrong.

WATT (voice-over): But the deputy kept questioning, asked to search the car.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I don't care about your race or gender, your -- anything, man. No offense.

COLBERT: You don't care about -- you don't care my --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I'm here enforcing laws.

WATT: It wasn't legal for this deputy to pull Phil over because he had this thing hanging.

TAYLOR: You can't have minor air fresheners be a legal justification to pull somebody over. Laws need to be changed.

WATT (voice-over): There are state legislators in Minnesota who agree, but is that the solution?

JOHN WHETSEL, RETIRED SHERIFF, NATIONAL SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION TRAFFIC SAFETY COMMITTEE: If an air freshener hanging from a car has an opportunity to distract a driver, that causes a crash, that kills a child, ask the parent of that child if that law should be taken off the books.

WATT (voice-over): But here's the issue, Stanford University researchers found in a 2020 study that Black drivers are stopped more than white drivers, searched more than white drivers.

TAYLOR: We need cultural training. We need diversity training.

WHETSEL: I think law enforcement officers should look at who are the trainers.

WATT (voice-over): The deputy who pulled Colbert over was a trainer. He was fired over this and similar stops, says the La Paz Sheriff's Office. We reached out to the deputy for comment and got nothing.

COLBERT: It was never about the air freshener.

WATT (voice-over): So, Colbert did not back down.

COLBERT: So when this all goes through and you see I'm good, you see that I don't got nothing, and you see (INAUDIBLE), what happens? I just go about my day and you just wasted 30 minutes of my time. You just -- so I'm going to definitely --

WATT: My last brush with a deputy, I was definitely going a few miles too fast, and he just pulled up next to me in the next light and just said, dude, slow down. Has something like that ever happened to you?

COLBERT: Yup. I don't hate cops. I hate the bad ones out there doing wrong for us. But the good ones fighting the good fight with us, you know, thank you.

WATT: And Phil Colbert did get a financial settlement from the La Paz County Sheriff's Department, where a new sheriff is now in charge. And he told us that Colbert's video and other videos did reveal a problem culture within the department, deputies were under pressure to perform, and there wasn't enough supervision. He says that is now changing. Don?

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON: Thank you, Nick. Happens a lot, though, then you get tangled up in the system and you have to un-spoil it.

[23:40:00]

LEMON: It is -- it's a whole thing. W. Kamau Bell is here to talk about that and more. Does all of this come down to the dangers of driving while -- black is the question. We'll talk about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: An air freshener dangling from a car's rear view mirror and a traffic stop that can go horribly wrong for Black drivers.

[23:45:02]

LEMON: I want to talk more about this with W. Kamau Bell, the host of "United Shades of America." Great show on Sunday night, by the way, Kamau, but let's talk about this, what we just saw before the break. That traffic stop sure was something. I don't know -- I mean, I don't know what you call it because they continued questioning. The young man said that it was never about the air freshener.

We've talked about being pulled over before, profiled. What do you think when watching this? Because this is not -- I mean, we're looking at a traffic stop, but this goes beyond into other things, beyond traffic stops, right?

Then I said you get tangled up in the system and you have to unspool yourself and you have to spend more money and you have a record and all these. That's what we've been trying to explain to people about profiling, what that means. But go on, take it away.

W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST: Don, I can just sit here and keep nodding while your talk. I don't have a problem doing that.

(LAUGHTER)

BELL: But yeah, I think the thing I saw when I see that young man, I'm glad he's alive. You know what I mean? We've seen so much footage of something like that happening and you sort of don't want him to speak so directly to the police officer, in the same token, you're like, yeah, speak up and talk.

And yet we know that there's -- we think -- we often think that this is only happening in the ones we have footage of, but this kind of thing is happening every day all the time and we don't always get to see the footage of it.

LEMON: Yeah. It's not always police officers who -- I mean, you think about (INAUDIBLE) and all that stuff, people who just think, like, hey, you're Black and I can just make up anything about you and someone's going to believe me.

BELL: Yeah, I mean, you know, we talk about micro-aggressions, which I say are racism when nobody dies. I mean, those kinds of things happen all the time, all day long, and you can't tell -- I'm not even talking to my Black friends about it because they're like, what, I believe you, and I can't tell my white friends about it because they're like, what, I don't even understand what you're talking about.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Well, maybe they'll understand if they watch "United Shades of America." The latest episode of your show, "United Shades," the episode is based in Portland, about the history and current power of protests. Let's play a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: I remember the first night that I got gas. The sensation is your throat starts to burn and then your sinuses start to burn and then your eyes start to burn. It -- it hurts. The feds were so brutal. They were there to (bleep) us up. And they did, they accomplished that.

UNKNOWN: OK. I'll see you when I see you.

UNKNOWN: There's got to be a better way than taking 19-year-old kids and young adults as we're trying to make a difference and using chemical weapons on them.

UNKNOWN: I shouldn't be, like, going out there with pepper spray and a baton and a taser just to keep myself safe for preaching that my life matters. I shouldn't have to do that. I really shouldn't have to do that.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, mom.

CROWD: Thank you, mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Kamau, there's a lot of debate today as there has been through the years about what constitutes an acceptable form of protest. Talk to us about that and the double standard that's often applied to protests by people of color.

BELL: Well, let's be clear about something, Don. This country wouldn't exist such as it is without protests. This country was started on a protest. This country -- the people who came to this country cleared the land of native Americans, brought Black people over here, brought Africans over here. It was all a protest for what they wanted, more freedom.

When you talk about the Boston Tea Party, the American Revolution, all of that was protest. That stuff we call patriotism. We want people to be proud of it. But the things that are happening right now in the streets, that's protest, too. It's all about expanding the rights of who this country treats as a citizen and making sure that we all have access to justice.

LEMON: Let me just say something about your show. It's a good thing. When your show comes on Sunday night, like, it's time to sit down and learn something. It's like a beer or tequila or a glass of scotch or whatever and watch, you know what I'm saying? And you learn -- I almost said you learn "S" -- and you learn stuff from watching your show, Kamau. It's great. Congratulations on the success. We'll be watching. Thanks for appearing.

BELL: I'm allowed to say "S" on my show. You keep it saying on this show.

BELL: You can say it if you want, but, you know --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: That's on you.

(LAUGHTER) LEMON: Kamau, thank you. Be sure to tune in, an all-new episode of "United Shades of America" with W. Kamau Bell, airs this Sunday, 10:00 p.m., only on CNN. Trust me, you want to watch it. It's fantastic.

Prince Harry's extraordinary new interview about why he left the royals and what his dad has to do with it. You'll hear it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Prince Harry in a remarkably candid interview talks about growing up in the royal family, compares it to living in a zoo. Here is CNN's royal correspondent Max Foster.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just when you thought Prince Harry couldn't lift the lid on British-royal life any further, comes this analysis of the pain he suffered as he grew up.

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX (voice-over): I don't think we should be pointing the finger or blaming anybody, but certainly when it comes to parenting, if I've experienced some form of pain or suffering because of the pain or suffering that perhaps my father or my parents had suffered, I'm going to make sure that I break that cycle so that I don't pass it on, basically.

FOSTER (voice-over): Appearing on actor Dax Shepard's podcast called "Armchair Expert," the duke of Sussex spoke of genetic pain, something, he says, he inherited from Prince Charles and something he is coming to terms with during therapy.

[23:55:08]

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): I never saw it. I never knew about it. And then suddenly I started to piece it all together and go, OK, so this is where he went to school. This is what happened. I know this bit about his life. I also know that's connected to his parents.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah.

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): So, that means that he is treating me the way that he was treated --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Exactly.

PRINCE HARRY: -- which means how can I change that for my own kids? And well, here I am. I now moved my whole family to the U.S. Well, that wasn't the plan.

(LAUGHTER)

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): Do you know what I mean? But sometimes, you got to make decisions and put your family first and put your mental health first.

FOSTER (voice-over): Harry puts his royal parching days down to childhood trauma, joking about being photographed playing naked billiards. He compared royal life to a mixture between "The Truman Show" and being in a zoo.

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): It's the job, right?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah.

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): Grin and bear it, get on with it. When I was in my early 20s, I was a case of, like, I just -- I don't want this job.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah.

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): I don't want to be here. I don't want to be doing this. Look at what it did to my mom. How am I ever going to settle down, have a wife and a family when I know that it's going to happen again?

FOSTER (voice-over): Harry recalls going on a secret supermarket run in the early stages of his relationship with Meghan.

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): The first time that Meghan and I met up for her to come and stay with me, we met up in a supermarket in London, pretending as though we didn't know each other, so texting each other from the other side -- people looking at me, giving all these weird looks and coming up saying hi, whatever.

FOSTER (voice-over): They have since married, relocated to Los Angeles, and had one child with another on the way.

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): So living here now, I can actually, like, lift my head and actually -- I feel different. My shoulders have dropped so is hers.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I can imagine.

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): And you can walk around feeling a little bit more free. I get to take Archie on the back of my bicycle. Now, I have said that. They are probably going to be --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah.

PRINCE HARRY (voice-over): But it's like -- I would never have had the chance to do that.

FOSTER: No word, Don, from Prince Charles's office on all of this. The palace isn't comfortable at the best of times discussing such private matters in public.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON: Max Foster, thank you so much. I appreciate that.

And thank you, everyone, for watching. Our coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)