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Don Lemon Tonight

GOP Arizona Election Official: Trump's Election Lie Unhinged; GOP Downplays Insurrection; Gaetz Associate Pleads Guilty In Sex Trafficking Case; Biden Pledges To Send 80 Million Vaccine Doses Globally; Blue State-Red State Divide Emerging On COVID Vaccines; Supreme Court Taking Up Major Abortion Case Next Term That Could Limit Roe V. Wade; Liz Cheney Warns Trump's Grip On The GOP Could Lead The Party In A Dangerous Direction. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired May 17, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): It is 11:00 p.m. This is DON LEMON TONIGHT. There's a lot to get to in the hour ahead. A Republican election official in Arizona pushing back against Trump and his big lie, calling the former president's claims about the state's baseless audit unhinged.

Plus, Matt Gaetz' wing man pleading guilty for paying an underage girl for sex, he is promising to give prosecutors substantial assistance. We are going to talk about what that means for the congressman.

And President Biden announcing the U.S. will share 80 million vaccine doses with the world, but here in the U.S., many are still refusing to get their shots. What states are the safest in terms of vaccination rates? All of ahead this hour on Don Lemon, Tonight.

And joining me is former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman and CNN's senior political analyst John Avlon. Gentlemen, good evening, thank you so much for joining.

John, you have been reporting on how the insane lies about election fraud have taken over the GOP especially in Arizona. It may seem really fringe but this is the rule and not the exception in the GOP, even though a few brave Republicans are speaking out.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (on camera): That's exactly right. I mean, the big lie has become a litmus test. And that cuts to the heart of our democracy. You can't claim to be a patriot and back a lie that undermines confidence in our democracy. And that's why it's notable that a few Arizona Republicans are starting to stand up to the insanity and call it out.

Call out the president's lies as unhinged and call out this fraud that's been going on, which is really just a partisan attempt to rerun an election, to give, you know, credibility to conspiracy theories. It's a disgrace to democracy and it's good to see some Republicans calling it out. We need a lot more. LEMON: Well, Denver, as you know, if you don't support the lies, then

you're likely to get cancelled. We saw it with Liz Cheney last week. Now, today, it's Georgia's Lieutenant Governor, Geoff Duncan announcing that he won't run again in 2020 in a statement.

This is what he said, in part. It always feels coldest right before the sun rises. I believe that is the exact moment in time the Republican Party is caught in right now and I am committed to being a part of creating those better days ahead for our Conservative Party across the country. Is the GOP's commitment to the big lie shrinking the Party?

FMR. REP. DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R-VA): Well, yes. But it's also in some areas like here I would say expanding the part in some rural areas, may be shrinking in some suburban areas. But again, I was talking about this earlier to somebody, we were looking at data and it seems to me that this is still the way forward is election integrity. And John was talking about that, I apologize, my dog just came into the room. Sorry about that noise.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: It's quite all right. It happens.

RIGGLEMAN: Yes. Here comes my second dog, now. So, I apologize. But what John was talking about is that, it is the litmus test, if you think about all the gubernatorial candidates here in Virginia, every single one of them ran on election integrity. And I won't talk about John, we talked about -- when you talked about Geoff Duncan, but also cyber ninjas.

You know, it seems like grift is a big part of Republican Party right now. And I've always wondered why Arizona which is used to deploy there, I don't know if you guys notice, in the air force, technically she's' in Scottsdale Phoenix, Tuscan. There's an amazing sort of technical area there.

And I'm not quite sure why you would go to Florida with somebody named cyber ninjas to bring him into Arizona for an audit. To me it's a grift and some kind of payback. And the unprepared -- the lack of professionalism and the lack of technical acumen they seem to have, again it seems to be part of this Republican Party grift that started with President Trump and some of the people around them.

And election integrity or stop the steal is part of that and that's why John is exactly right. I really don't know how, you know, to say that any louder or clearer than what John already said.

LEMON: Let me ask you about Lisa Murkowski though, Denver. The Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski said she's offended by members of her Party claiming that January 6th was you know, a peaceful protest, like, you know it was tourists.

[23:05:13]

She also voted to convict Trump for inciting the insurrection. She is facing reelection next year. In today's GOP, could siding with the truth, her, do you think it's going to hurt her?

RIGGLEMAN: Absolutely. You know, Geoff Duncan didn't run because his consultants probably looked at the polling, probably to the fundraising that was coming in and said Geoff, buddy, we think you're great integrity, we are glad you're out there fighting which can't win this election. That's what happened.

And that's what we are looking -- you know, here there's two districts here that just had elections, Don, and I want to talk about this really quickly is that the polling there again and I've said this, I think to you before, if I did, I apologize, Don, but the polling for election integrity for stop the steal was 25 to 30 points ahead of the nearest other topic.

So, if Geoff Duncan is going out or Lisa Murkowski is going out or Kinzinger or Liz Cheney is going out or local state candidates here, the candidates that said that President Biden was legitimate lost, they lost, Don, by a lot. So what do we do? Right, if you're going to actually run in the Republican Party in many of these districts, you embrace it, you say we need election integrity, the election was stolen, I support Trump in '24. That's the litmus test.

AVLON: Don, let me just jump in there about Murkowski in particular. You know, this isn't her first rodeo with the radicals. In 2010, she lost the Tea Party, she ran as an independent, as a write-in, and she won. And so I think that it's important to remember that a lot of these divisions have not been happening overnight and the answer is to have the courage of your conviction and go out in front of your constituents as an independent candidate, if necessary.

Declare your independence from the extreme, be judged on the content of your character and refusing to back the big lie. The structural problem is this folks are afraid of losing a close partisan primary. But they do well in a general election if they had the guts to stick it out one way or the other.

RIGGLEMAN: I agree.

LEMON: John, Denver, thank you, John Denver. Thank you very much.

(LAUGHTER)

AVLON: West Virginia.

RIGGLEMAN: Hey, man, that's where my family is from, rocky mountain high. My name is Denver too, I don't know.

LEMON: Take me home.

RIGGLEMAN: I'm very confused.

LEMON: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

AVLON: Take care, guys. LEMON: I want to get now to the man Matt Gaetz called his wing man,

pleading guilty to six federal charges, including soliciting and paying an underage girl for sex. Joining me now, Dave Aronberg, he is a state attorney for Palm Beach County and he knows the Gaetz family.

Dave, thank you, I appreciate you joining us tonight. Joel Greenberg was facing 33 charges but since he agreed to give substantial assistance to prosecutors, he only had to plead guilty to six of those charges. What does that tell you about the kind of information Greenberg could have?

DAVE ARONBERG, STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY: Yes. Good night, Don. It's great to be back with you. You know, federal prosecutors are not going to cut a sweet deal with a child sex trafficker, unless that person has real information that could lead to a prosecution of someone equally or more culpable than he is or a bigger fish.

Now, we know that Joel Greenberg is the most culpable person here. He's at the top of the food chain. But when it comes to bigger fish, you've got a sitting member of Congress out there, person in position of trust. And that is Joel Greenberg's lifeline here, because otherwise he's facing life in prison for child sex trafficking. And it is ironic, Don, and our criminal justice system that the person who is the worst, gets the deal, that is the best, because he knows the most.

LEMON (on camera): Interesting. The person who is the worst gets the deal that's the best because he knows the most. Very good observation. Take a listen though what -- that's the truth, that's not your observation, it's the way it works. This is what we heard from Greenberg's attorney. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRITZ SCHELLER, ATTORNEY FOR JOEL GREENBERG: Does my client have information that could hurt an elected official? I guess this is just, you know, must-see television. You'll just have to wait and see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Wow. How worried should Congressman Gaetz be right now?

ARONBERG: Yes, to quote Clubber Lange from Rocky 3, my prediction is pain. And this lawyer is talking pretty loosely and that's unusual because federal prosecutors like to observe a cone of silence because they don't want to tip off anyone. If you start tipping off targets, that target can flee, that target can attempt to tamper with witnesses.

So lawyers have to be careful when they speak out on this matters. But Gaetz is in a lot of trouble. But ironically, it's the fact that Joel Greenberg is so desperate that could be a lifeline for Gate, because Joel Greenberg is a walking criminal enterprise. And the fact that the charges were reduced from 33 counts to six gives Gaetz' lawyers, if he is ever charge the opportunity to say, you did it to save yourself.

[23:10:06]

Not only did you lie on the stand to save yourself, but you've done this before in the plea deal, he admits to making up a false accusation about another political rival back in Seminole County, a teacher who ran against him, who he labeled as a pedophile. So, Gaetz would just say this is just Joel Greenberg doing Joel Greenberg things.

LEMON: So, does he have a credibility problem? Because again, this was -- his lawyer are pointing out, Gaetz' lawyers are already pointing out that Greenberg has admitted to falsely accusing another man, as you said, of having sex with a minor.

That would give him credibility problem. So, prosecutors said they have needed him to back up his accusations with proof in order to cut a deal because he has this credibility problem?

ARONBERG: Yes. Joel Greenberg's words mean nothing. He's like a James Bond villain, without the metal teeth of the nuclear reactors. This guy needs corroboration to get a deal. So he's got to have the Venmo receipts, the text messages, the emails. And I got the plead deal here, 86 pages.

60 pages of it are fax. Fax to buttress claims that Joel Greenberg is making and he's got to have the receipt or apparently does or the feds wouldn't cut a deal with him. But another crucial point is that they're also have to be some additional witnesses. And I think the feds have them in their back pocket, who will also testify, to backup what Joel Greenberg says.

People like the 17-year-old victim here, or maybe, Matt Gaetz ex- girlfriend, who doesn't have an ax to grind. They got along well. And she apparently, works currently for Florida state government. She will be tougher to discredit than Joel Greenberg, or the victim in this case who according to reports is now an adult film actress. But not so for the ex-girlfriend who, I think, could be a powerful witness in any future trial.

Gaetz is going around the country, with Marjorie Taylor Greene, making light of the accusations. He has denied all of these accusations, but it's interesting, instead of not talking, he's out talking, and joking around about it again, denying all the accusations. Joel Greenberg. Thank you very much. Aronberg, I don't why I do that. Thank you so much.

ARONBERG: We're very different people Don, very different.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you so much, I appreciate it. David Aronberg.

ARONBERG: Thanks, Don.

LEMON (on camera): Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I want to turn to the latest on COVID now. Joining me now, is Dr. Peter Hotez, he is the co-Director of a Texas children's hospital, the center vaccine development. Doctor, good to see you, I'm glad you're here to explain some of the science, and what is going on right now.

We need you more than ever. So, the science is clear, vaccines save lives. But we are still seeing a lot of hesitancy, especially among white evangelical Christians. This is what Reverend Franklin Graham said earlier on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKLIN GRAHAM, PRESIDENT, CEO, BILLI GRAHAM EVENGELISTIC ASSOCIATION: Vaccines are important, and I would encourage people to pray about it, consider it, I would never tell somebody, you need to have it, or try to mandate it. But, I think we certainly, I should encourage people to consider the vaccine. And if you don't take it, there are some real risks for some groups.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Has the White House, Reverend Graham, actually reached out to you about this and ask you to do a public service announcement, something along those lines?

GRAHAM: No, not yet. But I will be glad to, if they call, and I'll certainly will try to work with them, and help them, anyway I could.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, look at your, I want to put up on your screen now. There's a Pew research center survey that found that 45 percent, 45 percent of white evangelical say that they definitely, or probably won't get vaccinated. Do you think this message is going to make a difference doctor?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, VACCINE RESEARCHER, DEAN OF THE NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE AT BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE (on camera): Well, certainly, we need people like Reverend Graham, and I'm really thrilled that he went out and did that. We just need many more leaders like that. Because Don, what we were seeing is very scary. I worried that we're diverging into two COVID nations.

What we have got now is a situation, we are up in New England state, New York, New Jersey, California, and New Mexico, and we are hitting really great numbers, 65 percent of the country, single dose. 50 percent, two doses will be there pretty soon. We are going to have a big impact on reducing virus transmission, and vaccinating our way out of the epidemic.

Then, there is the other America. And the other America, this time around, is something that's not good. It's the southern part at the country, the bottom states, are all deep red states. Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, have that vaccination rate.

Also up in Idaho, and Wyoming. And we can, as a country, we cannot vaccinate our way out of this pandemic unless we can bring the south, and some the coupled of those mountain states up to the same levels. And that's going to be one of the biggest challenges of the Biden administration this summer.

LEMON: Wow. Unbelievable. [23:15:00]

This is a map of the top 10 states with the highest percentage of their population vaccinated. All states that went blue, in 2020. And, the bottom states, all states that went red, except for Georgia. I mean, this is something that you have written about, that could really affect the future of COVID in this country. Explain that to us, doctor?

HOTEZ: Well, it's almost as though people have tied their political ideology, or their allegiance, to not getting vaccinated, just like they tied it to defying masks and social distancing. And we have to find a way to take the anti-science out of conservatism.

It never used to be this way in this country. And this is something new, and something very unfortunate. And it's going to take work, because of the spread between the blue states in the red states is growing every day. It's not shrinking.

And so that by the summer, if you remember last year this time, Don, we were the (inaudible) in our epidemic and then if you remember in July and August you had me out a few times because we are that mass of surge across the south in the summer.

And I don't think it'll be as bad this time around, because we do have some people vaccinated and some are infected and recovered. But it still going to be pretty bad, I don't want to see that, I don't want to see new variants emerge. So what we're looking at is some dire forecast for the south unless we can fix it.

LEMON: I hear the strangest things since I've been out, you know, at the barbershop, you know, I have a cousin who works for the health department, you know a friend who works at the doctors and, you know, there's so much misinformation about the vaccines. And so you're, right we need more leaders to get the word out, I thank you doctor, I appreciate it.

HOTEZ: Thanks, Don, all the best on the new show.

LEMON: Thank you very much. The former president, transformed the Supreme Court into a conservative majority and it's not just the nation's highest court. How an increasingly conservative court system could change the face of America.

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[23:20:00]

LEMON: Well, tonight, the Supreme Court agreeing to hear a major abortion case next term, a case that could directly challenge the landmark Roe v. Wade decision. It involves the controversial Mississippi law that bans most abortions after 15 weeks and does not make exceptions for rape or incest. A federal judge struck down the law 2.5 years ago.

Let's discuss now with CNN senior political analysts, Mr. Ron Brownstein is here and Emily Bazelon, staff writer for The New York Times magazine and a fellow at Yale law School. Thank you so much for joining, I appreciate.

Emily, can we start with you, because I want to talk about this current Supreme Court that is a 6-3 conservative majority bench. Three of those judges appointed by the former president and now they will hear this Mississippi case that severely limits Roe v. Wade. This is what conservatives have been waiting for Trump and McConnell certainly delivered.

EMILY BAZELON, STAFF WRITER, NEW YORK TIMES (on camera): That's right, I mean, I think what you are seeing here is the way in which conservatives decided and rightly so that the Supreme Court is really important in American life. Especially for social issues, abortion, access to firearms, questions about good old religion in American life.

And so these three justices appointed by President Trump, joined three other very conservatives justices and it seems as if this decision to take this challenge to this Mississippi abortion ban could signal major challenges and major changes to access to abortion in United States.

LEMON: Ron, the Supreme Court's next term, they are also taking up a case of gun rights and may also hear a case on affirmative action. I mean, things are moving very quickly, are we seeing just how Trump's judges and his conservative court impact the country for years to come?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AND SENIOR EDITOR OF THE ATLANTIC (on camera): Yes, and I think this is a foreshadowing of what's going to be one of the biggest structural complex in the coming decades. I mean, this case is momentous not only for itself but I think as you suggest, for what it could portend for a whole series of other issues, voting rights, immigration reform, LGBTQ rights, the balance between religious liberty and civil rights.

And we have a situation that I believe we had been in before. Where you have a court majority that is putting itself directly at odds with the priority of what is emerging as the nation's political majority. Democrats have won the popular vote, and 7 of the 8 last presidential elections, no party has ever done that.

A representative of the majority of the country in the Senate were all but two of the past 40 years. And yet this court is in position to block much of what that majority is trying to do, much like we saw on the 1850s, where we had a court appointed by pro-southern Democratic presidents, blocking the agenda of the emerging Republican Party majority and in the 1930s.

Where you a have a court appointed by previous Republican president blocking the agenda of the emerging FDR majority. I do think this is going to be, Don, a rising conflict in the coming decades.

LEMON: Emily, you know, Trump -- with the help of McConnell and senate Republicans, made lifetime appointments to nearly 30 percent of the federal bench -- all these issues including voting rights, you know, as Ron just mentioned. They're going to go through an increasingly conservative court system. What does that pretend?

BAZELON: Well, what that means is that the more than 200 of lower court judges, who Trump appointed will be in position to build the record. And a lot of cases, what happens at a trial or at this first stage, determines wet the higher up judges, including Supreme Court justices can actually look.

And so, if you had lower court judges who are determining those outcomes at first. That can have a real fact on the people kind if up the judicial food chain. And it means that you're less likely to hear the kinds of challenges to conservative views that might perhaps persuade or at least create some factual problems for a very conservative members for the Supreme Court.

[23:25:03]

LEMON: Got it. Listened, Ron this isn't the first that you and I had conversation about this issue, but now they are actually making their way to the court. You wrote last year that the then GOP control Senate representative, well below half the U.S. population, elevated a justice through the Supreme Court chosen by Trump, a president who lost the popular vote. That happened three times, right? So you post this question, can majority rules survive, what are you thinking about that now?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, look. I mean, I think that this is that core conflict that we are heading toward in the 2020s. Five of the six Republican justices on the Supreme Court were nominate by presidents who initially lost the popular vote. Four of them were confirmed by Senators who represented a well less than half the population. That was the case in each of the Trump nominees.

And as I said, they are positioning themselves in opposition to virtually every priority item on the agenda of this majority that has won the popular vote in seven of the pass eight elections. I mean, you can even look at in generations arms, you can look at the social and kind of racial priorities of generation z any the millennials, who are becoming the dominant group in the electorate.

This court is likely to oppose almost every single one of them and because of their age, they are in position to maintain this majority well into the 2030s. I think that is inherently unsustainable. I think if you look back at the 1930s with Roosevelt, something is going to have to give. Because I do not see these generations allowing this court majority, to simply deny their priorities for potentially 15 more years.

LEMON: Ron, Emily, thank you so much. I appreciate the conversation.

Up next, people you think were some of the smartest in the country, spreading misinformation. We are going to tell you why, this hand gesture had a whole bunch of past jeopardy contestants upset. Plus, Jake Tapper is here to talk truth, why we need more of it and why his new book, his new book, why you should read it? [23:30:00]

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LEMON: Tonight, an example of what happens when cancel culture, disinformation, and social media collide. You have to hear this one. It all started when "Jeopardy!" champion Kelly Donohue made this gesture on the show last month. That gesture perceived by some on social media to be a racist white power symbol, one that's supposed to be made like an OK sign with three fingers.

The accusation made its way to a Facebook group of almost 3,000 former "Jeopardy!" contestants, and The New York Times report said many in the group were outraged, some even appealed to the Anti-Defamation League. Well, as the Times reported, almost 600 former contestants also publicly signed a letter calling for "Jeopardy!" to address the symbol.

But here's the thing. Donohue did not make a white power symbol. He was holding up the number of fingers for each of his wins. And every appearance following a win, he held up a number of fingers to indicate how many times he won: one, two, three.

The fact-checking website Snopes debunking the white power symbol claim, and the contestant himself condemning white supremacy and saying exactly what he was doing in the Facebook post, writing, during the taping of my fourth episode, I was simply raising three fingers to mark my third win. There was nothing more I was trying to indicate.

So here to discuss now is Brendan Nyhan, a professor of government at Dartmouth. Brendan, thank you so much. I appreciate you joining me. It's an important story about how, as I said, all of this stuff collides: social media, cancel culture, misinformation. So, because of social media, the false claims spread like wildfire. What makes this case so incendiary thing?

BRENDAN NYHAN, PROFESSOR OF GOVERNMENT, DARTMOUTH COLLEGE: It brings together people's fierce about racism and white supremacy. And, of course, they have every reason to be concerned. We just lived through George Floyd's murder and a president who played footsie with white supremacists. But unfortunately, that turned into a kind of conspiracy theory that flourished despite complete lack of evidence, that there was anything nefarious going on.

LEMON: Yeah.

NYHAN: The story just reminds us that everyone can fall victim to misinformation and conspiracy theories, especially online and spaces that can facilitate their spread. And even the most knowledgeable people, people who can learn that much information to compete on "Jeopardy!" can still fall victim to these kinds of claims.

So, you know, it is a reminder that, you know, we're all -- we're all potentially, you know, culpable in the spread of misinformation online if we're not careful, and we need to slow down and avoid spreading something before, you know, we ruin someone's life or at least, you know, scar them forever, right? These internet mobs can get going very quickly.

LEMON: Yeah. And these are, as you said, really smart people. They've won "Jeopardy!" Some of them, you know, are champions many times.

Listen, "The New York Times" is reporting that some members of this "Jeopardy!" winners Facebook group were furious after the ADL refused to take issue with the hand sign, one even calling it gaslighting. But the head of the ADL told the Times -- he said he wished people could pause and fact-check before the storm erupts. He has a point. Why don't people pause and fact-check? The social media make that impossible?

NYHAN: It probably makes it a little too hard. You know, that outrage, that impulse to mask, to share button when you feel that twinge of outrage, if someone has said something wrong on the internet or something that offends you, there aren't enough kind of circuit breakers between you and sharing that story further.

We're starting to see the social media platforms try to slow people down and say, hey, do you want to read more about this before you share the story, for instance?

[23:35:02]

NYHAN: That is a great way to maybe pull these processes, (INAUDIBLE) these processes down before they get out of control. These closed Facebook groups, too, can be a real problem. We saw them playing a key role in the Stop the Steal movement, for instance. You know, they can create these bubbles where people may, you know, not correct each other effectively.

So, I think there is more we can do, but ultimately, you know, we -- you know, we all need to be careful. We all need to take that kind of sober second look and think, is this really something I should be sharing? This is the most important story in the world but it tells us, it reminds us that both sides can fall victim to misinformation and that even the most knowledgeable people among us can do it.

And I think that's a great, you know, that's a great lesson for all of us. We're all human beings. We all can make these mistakes. But let's not make them with people's reputations. We don't want to have a world where everyone instead of getting their 15 minutes of fame is getting their 15 minutes of being a social media pariah.

That's a kind of terrible world to live in, especially when there's no justification as in this case. It's just some guy who was making a symbol on his chest because he was happy he won a game show and that's it.

LEMON: I'm often surprised, though. People are surprised that, you know, social media, that people are outraged on social media. I mean, the people weren't outraged on social media and then something would be wrong. It is kind of -- I feel like that's what it was intended for.

But you're right. People need to step back and wait for the facts. At least do some digging for more information before coming, just jumping to conclusions. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.

So, he anchors six days a week. I don't know how he did this. He has a wife and kids. Now, he's got something else in the works. Jake Tapper is here next. Plus, navy pilots speaking out about UFOs they say they've seen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Look at that thing. It's rotating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Congresswoman Liz Cheney doubling down on her warnings about Trump's grip on the Republican Party just days after she was ousted from her House GOP leadership post. Cheney is saying it is dangerous that Trump continues to push the big lie of election fraud and that a violent insurrection like the one that happened on January 6th, the Capitol riot, could happen again.

Lots to discuss now with my CNN colleague Jake Tapper, the author of the new novel, "The Devil May Dance." Excited about that, Jake, and we're going to talk about it. Good evening to you. Thanks for joining. We'll talk about --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good evening.

LEMON: -- the book just a little bit. But first, I got to talk news of the day with you, OK? That includes what's going on with the GOP and the truth or I should the GOP and lies because Republicans continue their effort to restrict voting access. Do you think this is a play to set themselves up for minority rule?

TAPPER: I think this is a play for them to remake what happened in November 2020 but with different laws and with different players in key positions so that if they need to, they can undo the election.

I mean, if you look just at Georgia, for example, one of the provisions that they changed in the law when it comes to voting rights has to do with provisional ballots, which is you go to vote and you make a mistake and you go to the wrong place to vote.

Well, under Georgia's law before, you could cast a provisional ballot and assuming that you were who you said you were, then the vote would count. They would just figure out what district it belonged to, what voting district.

Well, now, they're making that more difficult. So, with that combined with the fact that they are trying to replace people who were in power at that time in Georgia who upheld the law, like the secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, for example, they're trying to replace him with election liar Congressman Jody Hice.

So, this is what they're trying to do. This is what Liz Cheney is warning about. She's saying they're going to try again to undermine this democracy, and we can't let them. That's what she's saying.

LEMON: So, Jake, let's see. You do two hours of television five days a week, then you do another hour of television on the weekend, then you write a book, and one is now that you've written. The latest one is called --

TAPPER: You wrote one, too, Don.

LEMON: Yeah, but you do --

TAPPER: Don, you wrote one, too.

LEMON: OK. All right. I know. I don't know where you find the time because I have time to do it on weekends. At least I'm off usually. But the book is called "The Devil May Dance," the sequel to your first novel, "The Hellfire Club."

It is a thriller. It is set in the early 60s. It is centers around Hollywood, the Rat Pack, the mafia, and politics. So, I don't know where you found the time, but give me the inspiration for your characters. I know they're based on real people.

TAPPER: Well, the heroes of the book are Charlie and Margaret. They were the heroes in my first book, "The Hellfire Club." In this case, in this story, it is based on a real story, which is Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Jr., Peter Lawford, Dean Martin, and the Rat Pack. In 1960, they worked their hearts out to get Kennedy elected.

In 1962, Sinatra thought that President Kennedy would stay with him at his Rancho Mirage estate outside Los Angeles. He had the place built up phone lines, rooms, a helipad built. And then Bobby Kennedy had a decision to make because he was going after organized crime with the Justice Department.

[23:45:00]

TAPPER: And Sinatra was friends with some of these mobsters. So Bobby Kennedy had to decide, do I offend Sinatra, one of the biggest stars who helped my brother get elected or do I let my brother stay in a house where literally mobsters have slept?

So that's a true story, and I just decided, why don't I let Charlie and Margaret, my heroes, go in there and investigate it? And then, obviously, that's where the thriller comes in.

LEMON: Yeah. Listen, I think it is fascinating because you handle so many issues in there, including racism. You deal with misogyny in Hollywood long before the "Me Too" era, the racism -- the way Sammy Davis, Jr. was treated, and how Frank Sinatra handled the blatant racism shown towards his friend and fellow Rat Packer Sammy Davis, Jr. Talk to me about that, Jake. TAPPER: This was one of the most dangerous thing discoveries that I made while researching the book, which was the Rat Pack could be really racist on stage towards Sammy Davis, Jr. They thought they were being funny and maybe in 1962 it was funny to some people. I don't think it's funny.

But behind the scenes, Sinatra was actually revolutionary in terms of civil rights. He helped make sure that the hotels in Vegas integrated. He fought for equal pay for people in his band. And he really was way ahead of where the Kennedys were in 1960, 1961, 1962 in terms of civil rights for people in his world.

Now, that didn't always translate to his hijinks (ph) on camera, but in that way, Sammy Davis, Jr. had much more to thank Sinatra for in terms of actual civil rights activism than he did President Kennedy at the time.

LEMON: Yeah. He wouldn't play certain venues, wouldn't stay at certain hotels. It was fascinating. He was way ahead of his time.

TAPPER: Exactly.

LEMON: Yeah. Jake, thank you. The book is called "The Devil May Dance" by my esteemed colleague, Mr. Jake Tapper.

TAPPER: Thank you, my friend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (voice-over): All right. Look at this. It's a UFO. That's what the Pentagon is confirming, but they won't use the word "aliens." Stay with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): U.S. Navy pilots going on the record and speaking openly about their encounters with UFOs. More on this tonight from CNN Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An object skimming the surface apparently at high speed. When?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): (INAUDIBLE).

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Bulls-eye. The aircraft sensors hone in on the -- the -- the thing, the unidentified flying object. It's one of a few videos of these UFOs the Pentagon confirmed as authentic.

ALEX DIETRICH, FORMER NAVY PILOT: You know, I think that over the years, we have sort of said, hey, man, if I saw this solo, I don't know that I would have come back and said anything, because it sounds so crazy. Your mind tries to make sense of it. I am going to categorize this as maybe a helicopter or maybe a drone. And when it disappeared, I mean, it was just --

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Alex Dietrich has never told her story publicly. She is one of several navy pilots who spoke with "60 Minutes" who have seen or picked up on sensors similar objects, often moving fast, with odd shapes and no obvious method of propulsion.

DAVID FRAVOR, FORMER NAVY PILOT: There is definitely something that -- I don't know who is building it, who got the technology, who got the brains, but there is -- there's something out there that was better than our airplane.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): No one is using the word "aliens" here. The Pentagon calls UAPs, Unidentified Aerial Phenomena.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): There is a whole fleet of them. My gosh. They're all going against the wind. The wind is 120 miles (INAUDIBLE).

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Pilot Ryan Graves picked this up on his infrared sensor in 2004 off the coast of San Diego.

UNKNOWN: Look at this thing. It's rotating.

UNKNOWN: The highest probability is it's a threat observation program.

UNKNOWN: Could it be Russian or Chinese technology?

UNKNOWN: I don't see why not.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Late last year, the Pentagon created a task force to look at the nature and origin of UAPs. What are these things? Where do they come from? And is there intent here?

The government sees this as a possible threat, something that may be able to outperform military capabilities. Lawmakers are demanding it be treated seriously.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): We have things flying over our military bases and places where we're conducting military exercises. And we don't know what it is. And it isn't ours. So, that's a legitimate question to ask. If it's something of outside -- from outside this planet, that might actually be better than the fact that we have seen some technological leap on behalf of the Chinese or Russians or some other adversary.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Next month, the director of National Intelligence and the defense secretary are scheduled to deliver an unclassified report on UAPs to Congress. Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper applauds the transparency but isn't expecting too much yet. JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I expect this report won't be fluid with ambiguity as well, and people, depending on their leanings, will extract what they want out of this report.

LIEBERMANN (on camera): For years, the government and the military downplayed the significance of the reports of UFOs.

[23:55:00]

LIEBERMANN (on camera): Now, the Pentagon's handling of those reports, it is under its own investigation. The DOD inspector general announcing earlier this month that the Pentagon's handling of the reports of UFOs is under investigation. Don?

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON: Oren, thank you so much for that. I appreciate it.

And thank you for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Tonight, Republicans who say they've had enough the Republican-led big lie about the 2020 election, there's just one catch, they're not the Republicans who can do much about it other than speak out. That is because the big lie is coming from the very top of the party.

And as we'll discuss in a moment, it is being abetted by some of the nation's top GOP lawmakers who are currently in power.