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Don Lemon Tonight

GOP Senators Lining Up To Oppose January 6 Commission; Prosecutors Seized 18 Electronic Devices From Giuliani's Home During Raid; President Biden Signs Bill Addressing Hate Crimes Against Asian- Americans; Body Cam Video Shows Black Man Tased; Don Interviews Rep. Grace Meng (D-NY); Bodycam Video Discredits State Police Account Of Black Man's Deadly 2019 Arrest; Claims of Cancel Culture a Reaction to America's Growing Diversity; CNN Heroes: Hector Guadalupe Aired 11p- 12a ET

Aired May 20, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: New details tonight on a shocking story we were first to report on last night. The mother of Ronald Greene, a black motorist who died during an encounter with Louisiana state police two years ago, speaking out right here on Don Lemon Tonight. The family was told at the time that Greene died in a car accident. But police body cam video is now out, and it proves that's not true. The video shows Greene was tased, kicked and dragged by officers before he died in custody. Greene's mom on a hardened saying this to me just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONA HARDIN, RONALD GREENE'S MOTHER: It was two, three days after we got there. And at that time, they told us that Ronald was in a high- speed chase. The car crashed into a tree and he went through the windshield and died of the injuries. But right before then, we found out that through the Coroner, Avelyn at the time, she told us that Ronnie was being taken out of state for his autopsy. And it was right then and there that we saw that it was going to be basically a cat and mouse game. They were running us all over the place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Also, tonight, Senate Republicans lining up behind minority leader Mitch McConnell opposing the creation of an independent commission to investigate the deadly insurrection at the Capitol on January 6th. So, I want to turn now to the GOP effort to bury the truth of the insurrection.

Joining me now, CNN political commentator, Amanda Carpenter and Brendan Buck, he is the former top aide to Paul Ryan and John Boehner. Good to see you both. Thanks for joining. This is really important stuff. And you know, Amanda, I made a commitment on the show to continue to talk about the insurrection and what happened on January 6th because it is important to our democracy. Several Republican Senators including John Thune and Maya Grounds are

admitting tonight that they are going to vote against the January 6th commission because it is not good for the 2022 campaigns. Amanda, people died. Voters were brutally assaulted. Our Capitol was ransacked and they're not even pretending to care about anything besides the next election. What the hell?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I think you have to call this what it is. We are watching the cover-up of the big lie. In all the deadly, dangerous consequences of it. You know, this is always going to be a tough vote for these Republicans because a vote for the commission is essentially a vote to investigate themselves. Or at least their colleagues.

And I was very surprised at how up front that John Thune was saying that he didn't want to support it because of the mid-term elections. But, you know, I do want to be optimistic here. Because the commission is going to happen in one way or another. And there were 35 Republicans who said, yes, we want to look into this.

And so, if Senate Republicans don't want to get on board with a bipartisan commission where they can have a hand in saying who would be on it and have a say for how it would go, fine. Nancy Pelosi can look back later, and Chuck Schumer can say you had your chance. We're doing this on our own. And Don, I believe in my heart that there are people in the Trump administration who are horrified about what they saw and have information and would be willing to talk.

[23:05:00]

LEMON: Brendan, Amanda just mentioned the 35 House Republicans who voted for this bill. Trump is going after them now. He's calling this, OK, (inaudible) this commission, he's calling them weak and ineffective. How much of this is playing into the Senate Republicans' decision-making tonight, do you think?

BRENDAN BUCK, FMR, CHIEF COMMUNICATION ADVISER TO FMR. SPEAKER PAUL RYAN: Yes. It's hard to suggest that it's not. The president seems to be putting out statements like this in greater frequency, reminding people that he's watching. You know, I talked to a number of folks around the Senate. Their theory of the case here is that if they don't have a commission, this will help their effort to move on. That they're worried that if there is a commission and it rolls out with a report in 2022, they are going to be forced to talk about Donald Trump and that's not what they want to talk about.

Here's the following in that, you're always going to end up talking about Donald Trump. If it is not this, it is something else. I can tell you as someone who is next to Paul Ryan, all through 2016, 2017, 2018, he's always going to be there. You can't avoid him. And so the idea that you are going to escape what happened is folly. So, you might as well get to the truth here.

And I think there are enough Senate Republicans who actually believe what happened on that day is a disgrace and is worth exploring. I am holding out hope that there are still 10 Republicans that if they were some revisions, they would be able to get to a place where they could find a bipartisan way. I really think that there's still a chance to do it.

LEMON: Amanda, in a really disgusting and childish and very transparent attempt to, you know, name calling, and you know, trying to change really the subject here, sort of, McCarthy is calling this the Pelosi commission. I mean, a blatant attempt to rile up the base and try to turn you know, this heinous attack on our Capitol into a partisan talking point. It's embarrassing.

CARPENTER: Yeah. I mean. A lot here is embarrassing. But I mean, McCarthy is one of the people that would be a witness to very critical information because he talked to the president as the riot was unfolding, as people in the Capitol were begging for help, as the National Guard waited, idling on the sidelines for more than three hours. I mean, there are huge questions.

So yes, he wants to turn this into a partisan (inaudible). But we have to take a second and look at how dump these arguments are. When John Thune goes to the (inaudible), these other messengers say, well, we want to move on from Donald Trump on one side of the mouth and then on the other side of the mouth saying, well, of course he is still the Republican Party. That is just incompatible. That doesn't make sense.

They're not going to get away from that. And if the Democrats can't, you know, make that a big issue, that they are covering up for the big lie, they still want to have all the upsides of Donald Trump, they still want his coalition, then that is political malpractice.

LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it. I have to get to some other breaking news now. I want to get to this breaking news on the raid of Rudy Giuliani's home in office. We are learning investigators seized 18 electronic devices from Giuliani and multiple people who work for him. So CNN senior analyst Elie Honig joins me now.

Ellie, thank you for helping me out on this breaking news. Good evening to you. Federal prosecutors are revealing tonight that the searches of Giuliani and his ally Victoria Toensing were part of a multiyear grand jury investigation into conduct involving Giuliani, Toensing and others. Does this show this investigation goes much deeper than we knew?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It does, Don. I think that is the most interesting revelation from this new paperwork which is that the Southern District of New York, federal prosecutors, have had an ongoing grand jury investigation of Rudy Giuliani dating at least back to 2019.

Also, we learned that back in 2019, the SDNY got a search warrant. We know that they searched his home and apartment three weeks ago but now we know that they also got a search warrant for his iCloud back in 2019. And of course, Don, in order to get a search warrant, prosecutors have to be able to show probable cause. Probable cause that a crime was committed and then when they go in search, Rudy Giuliani's iCloud, that they'll find evidence of a crime. So, this is a bigger investigation, a broader investigation I think than we had previously known.

LEMON: Elie, prosecutors now have their hands on 18 electronic devices from these searches. What kind of information you said they are going to go into the iCloud or what have you? What kind of information are they looking for here?

HONIG: Yes, Don. Phones are just treasure troves of evidence in today's world. When I first started as a prosecutor, when you would do a search warrant. You would sort of measure the scope of it by the number of boxes. Oh, we took 28 boxes out of that office. Now it is all about phones. And when you think about what is on a phone? Emails, texts, we know Rudy used encrypted apps to communicate with people.

You could have financial records on there. Photographs on there. And we know that Rudy Giuliani even though he served as Donald Trump's cyber security adviser, I don't think anyone takes that seriously.

[23:10:04]

We know he is not an all sophisticated. He is sort of a notorious pocket dialer. So, I would not bet on him having been secure in the way he used his phones and I would be willing to bet that they will find a lot of useful information on those devices.

LEMON: That's being generous. Pocket dialer. Thank you very much Elie Honig. I appreciate it.

And also, tonight, President Biden signing an anti-Asian hate crime bill into law after a surge of violence since the start of the pandemic. An 84-year-old grandfather in the bay area brutally assaulted on the street. He later died from his injuries. A 65-year- old Asian woman punched and kicked in New York City. And six Asian women among those killed at Atlanta-area spas and there have been countless other horrific attacks against Asian-Americans.

Now I want to bring in Democratic Congresswoman Grace Meng of New York. She introduced the anti-Asian hate crime bill President Biden signed today. Representative, thank you so much. This is really important. I'm so glad that you're here to discuss it with us. Many Asian-Americans are feeling terrorized in this country over the past years. How will this law help?

REP. GRACE MENG (D-NY): Sure. Well, thank you so much, Don for having me in for covering this issue. We're really excited that President Biden has really shown support and concern and has heard the cries of the Asian-American community for over the past year. This legislation would help not just the Asian-American community but really any community who is a victim of any sort of bias incident. And just to collect data. Most jurisdictions in this country are reporting zero hate crimes to the federal government. And we really can't fix what we don't know.

LEMON: You were at the White House today when the president signed this bill into law. This is part of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every time we're silent,

every time we let hate flourish, we make a lie of who we are as a nation. I mean it literally. We cannot let the very foundation of this country continue to be eaten away like it has been in other moments in our history and happening again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, to that end, there is a recent study, it is out of Cal State University. It finds that hate crimes against Asians are up 164 percent since this time last year in America's major cities. How do we get to the root cause of this hatred and how do we stop it, Representative?

MENG: Well, I do want to be clear that this legislation, while it is a very important and necessary step, it is just one piece of the puzzle. We do have a long road ahead. One issue that I believe it's important is also talking about mental health. A large percentage of the perpetrators, at least in my home city of New York, suffer from mental health issues.

So our government needs to invest more robustly in programs, mental health programs. Also, education. We're working on legislation, actually, with the Black-Hispanic caucus and Native-American members to diversify our curriculum in this country. There is too much history that our students don't learn about.

I didn't learn enough about the Chinese exclusion act, Japanese incarceration camps, slaves building the U.S. Capitol, the very place where I work every day, and to break down the walls and biases and stereo types. We need a more complete teaching of what American history is.

LEMON: I'm so glad that you mentioned that, because what I've notice -- I live here in New York as well. And you watch the local reports and you see some of the suspects, or the perpetrators. And there are people who have mental health problems and that really needs to be dealt with on top of the hate. So thank you for mentioning that. I don't understand how anyone can be against anti-hate crime legislation, but these 63 Republicans actually voted against this bill. Why do you think that is?

MENG: Well, Don, I don't have enough energy to try to explain why the Josh Hawleys of the world can't support this type of bipartisan legislation. Republicans, many of them, we have found, are trying to rewrite history or erase history. If it doesn't happen to fit their creative narrative.

LEMON: Let me -- I hate to interrupt. Let me just read to you since you mentioned Josh Hawley and I'll let you pick up -- sorry to interrupt. Senator Hawley says it turns the government into the speech police. I mean, what kind of speech does he mark to be able to have? Go on and finish your statement. But I mean, I just want to put that up, that's what he said. It turns the federal government into the speech police.

[23:15:04]

MENG: Yes, well, this is exactly what we're seeing. You know, when we passed a symbolic resolution condemning bigotry last year in Congress, the leader of the Republican members, Kevin McCarthy said that no one in America was talking about anti-Asian bigotry in this country.

And so whether it is him, whether it's Josh Hawley trying to rewrite history, not really being responsive to their constituents concerns, whether it is the January 6th commission to find out the truth and to protect people who work in the Capitol, we have seen that they're just trying to erase and rewrite their own history.

LEMON: It's really interesting. Do you think this bill got wrapped into the GOP strategy of turning everything into a culture war?

MENG: Well, I don't know. Look. I just know that the community has been suffering for over a year, battling two types of viruses. Also, wanting to make sure that we are continuing the allyship, existing and expanding allyship between so many communities as we stand in solidarity against hate and racism. And so we're glad that President Biden took quick action. Not just words but decisive action to push back against bigotry.

LEMON: Again, I thank you for coming on the program and I thank you for doing what you did with this bill. You be well. Representative Meng.

MENG: Thank you.

LEMON: Disturbing new developments tonight in a shocking story, we were the first to report on last night. Videos out showing a black man, Ronald Greene, dying after being kicked, dragged and tased by Louisiana state troopers after a high-speed chase. His family said police initially told them he died in a car crash. And this is far from the first time that when police said didn't match what we saw on videos.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

LEMON: Ronald Greene died in a fatal encounter with Louisiana State trooper two years ago. Police bodycam video only out now and the video discredits the initial police accounts of what happened. Greene's mother, Mona Hardin saying this to me just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (voice over): What do you say to the police?

HARDIN: Shame on you, shame on all of you. When we were there, we were lied to in our faces. And they allowed us to continue to go our ways knowing that nothing was going to be done. That deceit, we already know what the state troopers has done. But on all those above them, that is really painful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We have seen it time and time again. Cases where black Americans die in encounters with police officers. The video tells the real story though. Here's CNN's Josh Campbell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: George Floyd, Walter Scott, Breonna Taylor, Laquan McDonald, just a few of the names of black people dying at the hands of police officers. Police whose initial narratives were found to be inaccurate once video surfaced telling the real story. The official police report documenting the arrest of George Floyd simply stated, officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and noted he appeared to be suffering medical distress.

Officers called for an ambulance. No mention of Floyd being hand cuffed with a knee on his neck for over nine minutes. Walter Scott pulled over by police officer Michael Slager for a broken taillight in South Carolina in 2015, was shot in the back five times. Slager initially claimed he shot Scott because he feared for his life after Scott grab his taser. But video showed Slager shooting him in the back from 17 feet away, according to prosecutors, then dropping his taser by Scott's body.

UNKNOWN: What we see again, time and time again, officers punishing black folks who run, who don't comply, who don't comply quick enough.

CAMPBELL: Breonna Taylor, a black EMT, was shot and killed by Louisville police officers in March of last year during a botched raid on her apartment. The initial police report stated there were no injuries and no forced entry. Taylor was shot at least eight times and police used a battering ram to execute their no-knock warrant.

In Chicago, 17-year-old Laquan McDonald was shot in 2014 when he walked away from police on a side street while holding a knife. Chicago officer, Jason Van Dyke initially said McDonald raise a knife at him but at no point on the video that was release over a year later, was McDonald seen lifting the knife in the manner Van Dyke described.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: The amount of time it took to release the tape, the line in the initial reports by the officers, all these things, that's part of a cover-up.

CAMPBELL: Without the emergence of eyewitness cell phone video and the public release of bodycam footage, these officers' stories would remain the final word.

And Don, we know that that incident in Louisiana involving the death of Ronald Greene after that police encounter is currently under investigation by the Justice Department civil rights division, as well as the FBI. We hope to get greater fidelity on what exactly transpired there. Now, it's worth pointing out that that is just the latest example of a situation that's raising serious questions when compare what police initially said with what is later seen on video. It also worth pointing out that in United States, there are still

police departments that do not require officers to wear body cameras, and even in those instances where someone dies in police custody and then officer was wearing a camera, it can sometimes be months or even years before that video is seen publicly. Don?

LEMON: Josh Campbell, thank you so much. You know, this isn't a one- off. It is over and over and over again. How do we stop police from whitewashing what happened? That conversation is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:25:00]

LEMON: Ronald Greene's family said they were told he died in a car crash during an encounter with Louisiana state police two years ago, but now we can see for ourselves what happened. The Associated Press releasing three segments of the original video which it says is 46 minutes long. Now, we don't know what happened before and CNN has not viewed the video in full and I have to warn you though, this is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Get on the ground. Taser. Taser. Taser.

UNKNOWN: Put your hands in your back.

UNKNOWN: God damn. Get up here.

You'd better not move.

Got it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:30:00]

LEMON: Joining me now to discuss this is Phillip Atiba Goff, the president and co-founder of the Center for Policing Equity, and Captain Ron Johnson, formerly with the Missouri State Highway Patrol.

Gentlemen, thank you for joining. I wish I could see you under better circumstances. Difficult to watch that video. Phillip, I'm going to start with you. We saw Ronald Greene tased, beaten, dragged in shackles by his feet.

But here's what the police report said, OK? It said Greene was taken into custody after resisting arrest and struggle with troopers. A short time later, Greene became unresponsive and was transported to Glenwood Medical Center by Pafford Medical Service. Greene died while en route to Glenwood Medical Center.

It is outrageous. Does this show there was a cover-up from the very beginning?

PHILLIP ATIBA GOFF, PRESIDENT AND CO-FOUNDER, CENTER FOR POLICING EQUITY: So, I have to put this into context. There is not one officer there who gets scared and says, oh, wow, look at what I did, I'd better cover this up. There are multiple officers, and this is the official report of the police department for two full years.

You can't call that a mistake. You can't call that sort of one individual bad officer. This is absolutely a conspiracy to conceal the violence that produced death. There is no other way to look at it. When it is been held out of public eye for two full years, who the heck feels comfortable calling the police to keep them safe in that community?

LEMON: Mm-hmm. Captain Johnson, this happened two years ago. The public is only seeing this video because it was leaked. Who controls the release of these body cam videos and what needs to change to expose this kind of behavior?

RON JOHNSON, FORMER INCIDENT COMMANDER IN FERGUSON, MISSOURI: I think when we talk about the culture, this defines that, because it is not just about those officers that were there on the scene, it is about those administrators, the upper management of that agency, because they're the ones that have to review that, they have to be the ones that send that report through. But they're also the ones that decide what's going to be released.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

JOHNSON: And so, when we talk about culture in our country, this is what our community and country talks about.

LEMON: Yeah. Again -- yeah, again, this is the AP video. CNN does not have the original video. We don't know what happened in between the portions of the video that they released, 46 minutes. This is only a short portion of that video.

But, captain, why police departments, right, why is it at their discretion? Why are they allowed to decide to make that decision? Isn't that an inherent conflict of interest? What is the whole point of wearing body cam video if you decide how transparent you're going to be about releasing that video?

JOHNSON: You're absolutely right. That's why you hear throughout the country, people talk about we need some national policies. So it is not just enough to say that we're going to have you wear a camera. But in some cases, we're seeing that we're not seeing the video. In some cases, we may never see all the video.

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

JOHNSON: So, there has to be some national policy here that puts a mandate on that so we can have transparency as to our creating trust.

LEMON: Phillip Atiba Goff, you know, all these stories, Ronald Greene, George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, the police reports were clearly deceptive or just flat-out lies. Because when I read them, you know, when I read the George Floyd report, I was like, what incident were they talking about? Was there something else that happened at the Cup Foods?

This doesn't resemble anything we saw on video. How are police allowed to get away with this? Isn't there an oversight or investigation, especially after a death?

GOFF: Yeah, you would think so. But unfortunately, oftentimes, the investigation is done by police officers who have served with those exact same officers. We asked police to investigate themselves. And that's why you can have police who shoot Tamir Rice inside two seconds of getting out of a car, but the formal report says, oh, I warned him three times, please drop the weapon, and so I feared -- I reasonably feared for my life. That's why you can have a D.A. (INAUDIBLE) --

LEMON: We're losing --

GOFF: -- decided that nothing bad is going to happen to these officers. You don't need to know. Just trust us. The investigations are by the people who are engaged in the crime entirely too often, and it is well past time to get that out because there is nowhere in the United States now the whole communities can trust it is going to be done right.

LEMON: Yeah. We lost your audio, a little glitch there for a second, but we got it corrected. For now, let's see, fingers crossed.

Captain Johnson, a state official is telling CNN that the Louisiana State Police were investigating this incident as a criminal matter, the night of the event. But two officers are still on the job after being reprimanded.

[23:34:59]

LEMON: One faced a 50-hour suspension for manipulating body cam. Is that accountability?

JOHNSON: No, because that said, they've already made their decision. They've already told you what was discipline. And so, they've already made their decision.

And so -- and I think like the other guest talked about, police are policing themselves and doing their own investigation. In some cases, that should be.

LEMON: Mm-hmm. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.

White men increasingly invoking cancel culture when it is not about that at all. Why they're trying to cling to the woke wars, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

LEMON: Are straight white men being silenced by so-called woke culture? What conservatives like to call cancel culture? That's a claim of podcaster Joe Rogan, who, by the way, has an audience of millions. But is it really just a case of feeling threatened by the growing diversity of America?

More tonight from CNN's chief media correspondent Brian Stelter.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joe Rogan has come a long way from eating roaches on "Fear Factor."

(SHOUTING)

STELTER (voice-over): But he is still good at making people shriek.

JOE ROGAN, PODCASTER: You can never be woke enough. That's the problem.

STELTER (voice-over): The hugely popular podcast host causing days of chatter by saying that straight white men are the targets of woke culture.

ROGAN: It will eventually get to straight white men are not allowed to talk --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Right.

ROGAN: -- because it is your privilege to express yourself when other people of color have been silenced throughout history.

STELTER (voice-over): Cue another day of the woke wars. It's an awakening about racial and social justice to some, but an overreaction to others. What is consequence culture for some is cancel culture to others. Rogan blaming wokeness for altering the comedy landscape.

ROGAN: Can you make a good comedy movie anymore? Or have they -- have they made it so dangerous in terms of being cancelled, the comedy movies are no longer something you can do?

STELTER (voice-over): Then predicting more backlash towards straight white men in the future.

ROGAN: It will be you're not allowed to go outside because so many people were imprisoned --

STELTER (voice-over): Thinking he is just joking?

ROGAN: No, I'm not joking.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): No, I know.

ROGAN: It really will get there. It's that crazy.

STELTER (voice-over): Crazy indeed. But these arguments from the likes of Rogan, Bill Maher, and Tucker Carlson are worth analyzing, because these issues sway voters. Rogan's podcast draws millions of downloads. His deal with Spotify is reportedly worth $100 million plus. Yet --

ROGAN: I'm not a doctor. I'm (bleep).

STELTER (voice-over): There, last month, Rogan basically said, don't listen to me, after arguing that young, healthy people don't need the coronavirus vaccine.

But millions do listen. He has been accused of spreading conspiracy theories and Spotify even pulled some of his old interviews due to controversy.

But that is clearly part of his appeal, along with unpredictability. Rogan has shown that he is not one to be pigeonholed into an ideology.

ROGAN: I think I will probably vote for Bernie.

STELTER (voice-over): Interviewing liberal figures, along with those on the far right, and pushing back on conservative thinkers, who might seem like his allies.

ROGAN: How much of that 18-year-old kid today decided to pick up a gun and shoot somebody is based on him growing up in this (bleep) environment where that's what he models.

BEN SHAPIRO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE DAILY WIRE: The answer is there's only one way to break that chain.

ROGAN: What way is that?

SHAPIRO: That way is to not pick up a gun and shoot somebody.

ROGAN: I think that's a simplistic way of looking at it if you are on the outside of that community.

STELTER (voice-over): Leaving his millions of listeners to have to tune in for what he will say next.

(On camera): Now, as for Rogan's recent comments, those are just comical, hearing this rich and famous guy express worries that even though he's paid to talk for a living, he is going to be silenced in the future.

But he is not the only one talking that way. This -- the fear about woke culture, about an overreaction, is pervasive, especially in right-wing media. It is worth scratching at to understand what is going on beneath the surface. Don?

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON: All right. Brian Stelter, thank you so much. Let's discuss now with W. Kamau Bell, host of "United Shades of America." I know you're shaking your head. Let me just say this, Kamau.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I do honestly think that there is a legitimate discussion about, you know, so-called woke culture going too far. I think there is a good discussion about that. I don't disagree with everything that Rogan says. Where he lost me was the straight white male part because, you know, America. So many people want to fall back on the cancel culture argument when it is really about asking them to consider why something maybe offensive to someone else. So, why are people get so up in arms when they are asked to consider another person's history? That's the part that I want to know.

W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST: Yeah. I mean, I think that we are living in an era where, you know, straight white men have had an unimpeded access to the public microphone for most of the history of this country. Now, their access is not it is impeded. There is just more public microphones to talk into.

But, you know, Brian's piece, entertaining, but it sort of unmade its own argument by the fact that we're talking about Rogan, Bill Maher, and Tucker Carlson, some of the most successful broadcasters in America who are all rich.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: And straight and white.

BELL: And straight and white. So, to me, it's like Rogan had that podcast for years. I've been on his podcast a couple times. And for years, he could talk about how he didn't believe in the moon landing, he could talk about chemtrails (ph), he had conspiracy theorist guests on regularly, and nobody paid attention.

What Rogan is the understanding that $100 million makes more people pay attention, not just your hardcore fans, but people who are like, who is this guy who got $100 million?

[23:45:07]

LEMON: Yeah. What do you -- I just can't believe that -- you know, when you -- all one has to do -- look at the press conference that was held today by the republican leadership?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: It was all straight white dudes. According to Matthew Dowd, they make up about 30 percent of the population, but hold 80 percent of the political power and leadership in this country.

I'm trying to figure out the whole straight white male being cancelled when they're on TV every night talking about how much they are being cancelled. I mean, am I wrong?

BELL: Who has been cancelled? Who hasn't been cancelled for either committing a crime or encouraging violence or putting -- regularly putting out information that is harmful? Who has been just cancelled because they're like -- I didn't like that one thing that person said? Who is that person who has been cancelled? Who is the straight white man who can't talk anymore? I rest my case.

LEMON: I haven't -- I haven't -- I can't think of one.

BELL: Cancelling people for crimes and things and for like -- any way.

LEMON: Yeah. I'm picking up what you're putting down. So, let's talk about this week's episode of "United Shades" on Sunday night at 10:00, which I watch every Sunday night. If I don't get there, then I DVR it. You take a look at the wealth gap. So, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: That millionaires upon millionaires moving here, buying second homes, I know people who just call, look, New York, give me a house in Charleston.

UNKNOWN: And the thing about Charleston is people that work in Charleston cannot afford to live in Charleston.

UNKNOWN: Mm-hmm. No.

UNKNOWN: Not even close.

BELL: Meet Chichi Clayton (ph), Hagan Raglin (ph), and Joshua Stenson. They just met today, but each of them has a story that represents millions of Americans. Many of whom are millennials just like them.

Let me take a moment to officially apologize to millennials on behalf of every generation older than you.

Sorry! People love to call millennials lazy and soft when in reality every older generation does that to the generation coming up. I know because it happened to my generation. Slackers!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, your generation. I mean, that was true about you.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: You're lying there on the couch.

BELL: Gen-X.

LEMON: I'm gen-x, too. I mean, come on, we're kind of slackers.

BELL: I think you're an elder gen-x compared to me, though.

LEMON: So anyways, you went to South Carolina to learn about the roots of America's inequality. What did you find out?

BELL: You know, I mean, we found out that the pandemic has sort of brought everything into sharp relief. Everything that we knew about wealth and equality has been made clearer through the pandemic because everybody who was struggling or on the edge there has really been pushed over the edge due to pandemic. So, if there is ever a time, we need to fix wealth and equality in this country, it is right now because, as we know, the only class of people who did well in the pandemic generally are the billionaires.

LEMON: Yeah. You talk about wealth and equality. I mean, listen, when you're in this business, you meet some really wealthy people. You get to experience it sometimes just by going to interview them. You're, like, oh, you're rich, rich.

There is a wealth that I couldn't even understand as a child growing up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. You have that much money where you just have a plane that takes you wherever you want. Like, I have a car that I have to drive.

BELL: And let's be clear about that. There is a point in which you have so much money that you're not putting it back into the economy.

LEMON: Yeah.

BELL: You're just like a hoarder who is hoarding magazines or cat skeletons. So that money isn't circling to the economy, which is why McDonald's workers are saying, our company is so rich, please pay the employees. Not please. I don't say please. But pay the employees better so that we can put the money back to the economy.

LEMON: Yeah. There are some very generous, wealthy people but amen to what you're saying. You're exactly right. Thank you, W. Kamau Bell. Don't get cancel now.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I'm younger than you, by the way.

BELL: Sure.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: (INAUDIBLE) society. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Be sure to tune in to all new episodes of "United Shades of America" with W. Kamau Bell. That's Sunday, 10:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

We will be right back.

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[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world, and when offenders are released, they face challenges earning a livable wage.

In their first-year home, 80 percent earned less than $15,000 annually and almost half of federal offenders were later rearrested.

This week's CNN hero beat those odds. After a decade behind bars, Hector Guadalupe built a successful career as a personal trainer. Now, he is helping other formerly incarcerated men and women follow his path.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

HECTOR GUADALUPE, CNN HERO: After surviving prison, you come home thinking you are able to start over. You want to be part of the society. But there are just so many layers of discrimination, boxes. You have to get through just to get an opportunity.

Society thinks, oh, you should just go get a job. And it's not that easy. Once you have a record, nothing is set up for them to win.

Up, one, good, right back under.

At Second U Foundation, we give formerly incarcerated men and women national certifications and job placements in boutiques, gyms, corporate health clubs throughout New York City.

[23:55:03]

GUADALUPE: You got to be figuring outside the box. You can't give someone a mop and say this is your future. Take minimum wage and deal with it.

There you go. You got it.

When you provide people with livable wages, they are able to be productive members of society.

Look at that belly.

(LAUGHTER)

GUADALUPE: And that's why we are a second U. We want to give you your second chance at life.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON: Get the whole story and nominate someone you know to be a CNN hero at cnnheroes.com.

Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

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