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Don Lemon Tonight
Republican Members Ignore the Looming Hate Crime; Louisiana State Police Release Body Cam Footage; Middle East Conflict Felt in New York Street Violence; Rep. Colin Allred (D-TX) Was Interviewed About the Voting Rights Bill Democrats Are Trying to Pass; Too Late the Hero. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 21, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Look at it, figure it out. Is it about tactical advantage, is it about innovation? Is it about how we surveil or is it about something else? That's fine. But don't get mad because a guy has got logical explanations for what are described as phenomena. That's called learning.
Thank you for watching. Have a great weekend. Don Lemon Tonight with its big star, D. Lemon.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I thought they were letting you up about your first two segments, but and that. I mean, look. it will be --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: No, I have gotten a lot of people saying thank you, thank you for finally talking about class and economics and you know, because what I really find always interesting, I always found this interesting, are people who say don't just use race and then don't do anything about it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That there is a convenience to saying something is about race because you can't do anything about race. And there are things that could be done and that's where we should be now about change.
LEMON: I would just say, I'll just keep it simple. We shouldn't try to change the definition of what is because it makes others feel better. And sometimes, when we have those conversations, we say what racism is without actually saying the word and that makes people feel better about what they think, what their beliefs are, how they treat other people, what they have grown up to believe. So you can't say that there is, you are not talking about racism when you say systemic --
CUOMO: No, of course you are.
LEMON: -- inequality or equality.
CUOMO: Of course, you are.
LEMON: Because that's what the definition is of racism without saying the word racism.
CUOMO: It can be -- it can be more than just race.
LEMON: It is. The first part of it is systemic. The system. And the second part is race. So that's what's the definition already is, and so I think when you say it's systemic equality or inequality, no, it's race. The systems in this country were set up --
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: -- for white people.
CUOMO: I just think there is an and. I think there is an and.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Well, that's what the system is. The system is the and.
CUOMO: No, but there -- yes, that's one and, there is another and. So, the cop does the bad thing to the Black person, hurts them, beats them, kills them, fill in the blank. The cop is Black, the cop is White. We still have the same problem, race made a set of decisions here OK, that shouldn't have been OK. And we leave it at that. When we don't look at all of the different rules and the vacancies of rules --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But that's the system.
CUOMO: -- that allow it to go. That's the system part.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: But then like to (Inaudible) point, so why does this happen to white people also? Because class matters too. Police give a hard time to poor people. So, if you're poor and Black --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Chris, but if you are talking about it in the -- but if you're talking about it in the, so it's a much larger conversation than just policing.
CUOMO: It is.
LEMON: And we shouldn't just put racism in a policing bucket in the criminal --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- in the criminal justice system.
CUOMO: Agreed.
LEMON: But you can be black or white or any color and still be co- opted by a system -- CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- by a system that was set up to look up for the interests of a certain kind of person.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: Which is, and so it's the same thing, but that definition when you take the word racism out, what you are doing is assuaging the guilt --
CUOMO: Yes, I just don't --
LEMON: -- or trying to make --
CUOMO: I don't think you take it out. I just don't think you stop there because when you stop at race, hey, it's racism, deal with it. You get where we are, which is no, it isn't. Comply.
LEMON: But that's not -- that's not -- that's not the job of oppressed people in a society, or even us in the media as well, to make people feel good --
CUOMO: No, no.
LEMON: -- about something that they don't want to feel good about.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I'm pushing for change. I'm saying when we say --
LEMON: But that's not going to help them change. By coddling someone.
CUOMO: That's not coddling.
LEMON: Yes, but change isn't the definition of it.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I know that -- I'm not changing the definition of it.
LEMON: Yes, you are.
CUOMO: I'm not.
LEMON: You are changing the definition because you're saying that systemic racism is not systemic racism, it should be systemic equality, because systemic equality makes -- doesn't rile people up the way as saying systemic racism is. That's not -- that's not the issue. The issue is not getting people riled up, the issue is fixing for people to understand their own implicit bias and racism.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: And you have a better chance to fix it if you work on both.
LEMON: But not if you ignore it.
CUOMO: Because if you have --
LEMON: You have to call it what it is --
CUOMO: I know.
LEMON: -- before you can work on it.
CUOMO: But it's more than just, we have more than just one problem in society.
LEMON: That's the system.
CUOMO: And that is an aspect of certain systems, especially in certain places. Location matters also. What I'm saying is --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I don't understand what location matter either. Because there's just as much racism in New York City as there is in Baton Rouge, Louisiana where I grew up.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: There are different rules. There are certain places --
LEMON: Or in Birmingham, Alabama where I live. Or in St. Louis, Missouri, or Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. There's all -- it's racist.
[22:04:57]
CUOMO: I know. Don, don't confuse culture with systemic situations. So for instance, in New York, I'm getting the special prosecutor. Transparency laws. You know, that's what I'm talking about by location. If you have a rule on the books that was made in opposition to body cameras, we're OK, fine, we're going to have to do body cameras, but if there's an expectation of privacy from somebody who won't show it and that qualifies cops as well, that cops have an expectation of privacy, that is the rule in the Louisiana.
It's crazy. That's part of the system. It doesn't exist in New York. It doesn't exist in a lot of places. You have to change that rule. You should have a special prosecutor anytime there is a use of force that is questioned by police that is worthy of a prosecution investigation. You have a special prosecution every time.
LEMON: I know but that's part of --
CUOMO: That's the rule.
LEMON: -- that's part of a system in a country that was set up for what. I understand the location. I mean, maybe, you know, there are different cultures in different places, but that doesn't change the definition.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Places where it's more fair.
LEMON: That doesn't change with the definition of racism is.
CUOMO: I'm not talking about the definition of racism.
LEMON: And what racism is. You're just talking about how --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I'm not talking about what racism is.
LEMON: You're talking about what different people in different cultures how they react to racism.
CUOMO: No.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: I'm talking about how in certain states, you will be treated more fairly under the law than in others because of certain systems that is set up. And Reed's point is I believe the genius of the far- right movement has been to make poor White people think that poor Black and Brown people are their enemy because you are splitting the most powerful block of Americans.
Because if you had them altogether, race has unique challenges and requires unique change. But there is a conflation. And if you give access to education, access to equity, access to capital, access to housing and to employment that covers problems with poverty and color, you will have the biggest group of people who want the same things in this entire country, they've dominated.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You just described racism.
CUOMO: I'm telling you, I'm not changing the definition of racism. I'm trying to push people towards solution.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But you are going a route, you are taking the whole thing around like --
CUOMO: No.
LEMON: -- you are taking the scenic route to the --
CUOMO: No, Don. You think that --
LEMON: You are taking the scenic route to the point to where you want to go.
CUOMO: Don. Don. LEMON: The shortest -- hang on -- the shortest distance --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I get that your point is -- no, I know it's your show.
LEMON: The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
CUOMO: No, Occam's razor is not just about the straightest point, it's about the simplest answer, Don. And if you think that this is an awful, we are doing right now, not you and me, but it's not working. Saying everybody is racist, this is racist, that's racist, even when it is isn't getting us to a better place.
LEMON: So, what are we supposed to say? It's OK? It's not racist?
CUOMO: No. You say this is racist, this is systemic inequality based on race.
LEMON: It's systemic racism.
CUOMO: There is system --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You don't need the based-on race. As I said, the simple and the us definition is racism.
CUOMO: Not all systemic inequality is raced based.
LEMON: Yes. When you are dealing with issues of race, it is.
CUOMO: I'm not -- again, Don, I want change, I want policing to be safer for more people and more places --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- when they are people of color or not.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I'm saying there is a huge coalition of people who, if they knew that the changes, we're going to benefit them and not take from them, you would have a whole new change alliance to deal with the racism problem in the society.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And where did they get that -- where did they get that notion from?
CUOMO: The right.
LEMON: And where did that come from?
CUOMO: Advantage. LEMON: And where did that come from?
CUOMO: Because they don't want those people voting --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But where did that -- where did that advantage come from?
CUOMO: Even you want to see the root problem --
LEMON: I got to go.
CUOMO: Don, if your answer to everything in America is about race --
LEMON: No, it's not.
CUOMO: -- you're never going to change anything. I'm just telling you now.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: My answer to everything in America is about race.
CUOMO: That's all I'm saying.
LEMON: Listen, it's not my answer to everything in America. That's not what I'm saying, everything in America is not based on race, but when you are talking about issues of race that are affect people of color --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- you can't call it anything else but racism. That's what it is.
CUOMO: I'm not. I never have, I never would.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: I'm saying, do we want to fix it? Yes.
LEMON: Yes, but you cannot fix it by pretending it's something else.
CUOMO: I'm not pretending it's anything else.
LEMON: Or by making it sound it's like something else so other people can feel OK about it.
CUOMO: There is no feeling OK.
LEMON: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I want people to feel bad about it.
LEMON: Systemic inequality.
CUOMO: I want more people to feel badly about it and feel invested in fixing it.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: That's what I want.
LEMON: All right.
CUOMO: You need to write another book.
LEMON: Yes. OK. Look, Isabel Wilkerson's "Caste." You should read that too. I'm sure you have. I know Christina as we've spoken about it. I got to go though.
CUOMO: It's caste another word for race?
LEMON: No. It's not another word for race.
CUOMO: I know. That's my point. I'll talk to you later.
LEMON: All right. I'll see you.
CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.
LEMON: I love you too.
This is CNN Tonight, excuse me, I did it again, this is Don Lemon Tonight. It's die hard. It's Don Lemon Tonight.
[22:09:57]
And we have a lot of new developments in the case that we are first to report this week. The death in police custody of Ronald Greene, who was kicked, dragged and tased by police in Louisiana. His family said police initially told them he died in a car crash. State police releasing a total of nine body camera dash cam videos tonight, but only now more than two years after the death of Ronald Greene.
Now one of those videos was obtained earlier today by CNN from a source with knowledge of that investigation. In that video, an officer who appears to be a supervisor arrives at the scene as other officers are attempting to arrest Greene and on the ground. This is part of it, and as I've said before, I wish it could be the last time that I have to warn you it is disturbing to watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Don't you turn over! Don't you turn over! Lay on you belly! lay on your belly!
RONALD GREENE, LOUISIANA RESIDENT: Yes, sir. OK, OK, sir.
UNKNOWN: lay on your (muted) like I told you to! You understand?
GREENE: Yes, sir!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: How many times does this have to happen while we wait for meaningful police reform? Reform that stall tonight. They are still talking on Capitol Hill, but there's pretty much zero chance of a meeting of the May 25th deadline, by the May 25th deadline. Which is the first anniversary of the murder of George Floyd.
On every one of the issues that really matter to the people of this country, Republicans are hiding their beds in the sand, that's all they're doing. After this week, we know what the GOP stands for. We know their priority. If there was ever any doubt about what their priority is.
The one-time party of Lincoln, one time stands for nothing except the disgrace, twice impeached, one term former president and themselves, not democracy. While the leaders of the GOP are doing everything in their power to kill the January 6th commission before it's even begun, doing everything in their power to ignore the insurrection that could've killed them, we have more new video tonight.
Video of a large group of Proud Boys near the capitol on January 6th, shot before the first defenses were breached on the perimeter of the capitol grounds according to court filings and a CNN analysis of footage from the scene. You hear one person off camera saying quote, "take the f- capitol." Another unseen person saying don't yell it, do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: They are there anyways.
UNKNOWN: Take the (muted) capitol.
UNKNOWN: Come on.
UNKNOWN: Let's not (muted) yell that, all right?
UNKNOWN: Just milk shake, man.
UNKNOWN: Idiot.
UNKNOWN: You know, let's do it.
UNKNOWN: Proud Boys, tighten it up. Straight line!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: A Proud Boy yelling take the f-ing capitol and the GOP is doing everything it can to stop the commission that's supposed to investigate what happened. That can't -- they can't even take a stand on hate crimes. Sixty-three Republicans voting against the anti-Asian hate crimes bill in a country where hate is flourishing right now.
An 84-year-old Asian man dying after being brutally assaulted on the street. Look at that. They can't even take a stand on that. A 65-year- old Asian woman attacked in New York City. They can't take a stand on that. Six Asian women among the victims of the Atlanta area spas shootings, they can't take a stand on that.
Hate is proliferating. Anti-Semitic attacks are spreading in cities all across this country. A man was arrested after a 29-year-old Jewish man was punched, kick and pepper sprayed yesterday in New York's Times Square. I'm going to talk to him tonight. You don't want to miss that.
A video recorded by a bystander shows several people kicking a man on the ground and hitting him with unidentified objects. It's unclear what happened before the video began. And in Los Angeles, police are investigating after reports that several Jewish people at a sushi restaurant were targeted by a group of pro-Palestinian men.
Video obtained by CNN showing a man swinging a metal stanchion at masked men wearing black and punching one of the men as they try to grab it from his hands.
And with all of that going on in our country, 63 Republicans voting against a hate crime spill. The QAnon congresswoman actually compares the mask mandate in the House to the Holocaust.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): You know, we can look back in a time in history where people were told to wear a gold star and they were definitely treated like second class citizens, so much so that they were put in trains and take into gas chambers in Nazi Germany. This is exactly the type of abuse that Nancy Pelosi is talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I mean, there are -- I don't like to call people names, but that's outrageous. Comparing mask-wearing to Jews being sent to the gas chamber. How low can she go? Why do Republicans continue to coddle her?
[22:15:03]
This week Republican showed us what they stand for and what they won't stand up against. We have a lot more to come on all of these new developments and all of these stories in the case of Ronald Greene, the Black man in Louisiana who was kicked, dragged and tased in a fatal police encounter. There's new video on what the police are saying about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Louisiana State Police finally releasing what they say is all the video of the police encounter that led to the death of Ronald Greene, a Black man kicked, tased and dragged by troopers back in 2019.
CNN obtained this new body camera footage showing a supervisor arriving at the scene. Greene is already on the ground, nother officers are trying to arrest him. And I have to warn you, it's disturbing to watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Don't you turn over! Don't you turn over!
R. GREENE: All right.
UNKNOWN: Lay on you belly! Lay on your belly!
R. GREENE: Yes, sir. OK, OK, sir.
UNKNOWN: Lay on your (muted) like I told you to! You understand?
GREENE: Yes, sir!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:19:59]
LEMON: So, in another part of the new video, you hear a trooper tell Greene why they tried to pull him over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Why did you run? All you was doing was speeding a little bit and run a red light.
R. GREENE: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, sir.
UNKNOWN: Quit (muted) pushing against me, do you understand that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Greene's mother says in the hours after his death, police claimed her son was in a high-speed chase and his car crashed into a tree.
So, joining me now is CNN's Ryan Young and Captain Ron Johnson, formerly with the Missouri State Highway Patrol.
Gentlemen, good evening to you.
Ryan, you are covering the story I'm going to start with you.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening.
LEMON: This new body cam footage, so tell us more about what else is seen in this video, it is really disturbing.
YOUNG: No, it is disturbing, Don. And look, I called earlier this week and we had a conversation about this before the video came out. I've been working nonstop since then to get this the rest of this video. So, it's good that now all that video is being released because you are trying to get a full picture of exactly what happened.
When you watch this video, one of the things that's disturbing is the fact that he is left in the front position for so much time. He's laying on his stomach, he's gasping for air. As you watch the 30 minutes, he essentially saying he's sorry over and over again, but he's trying to get some sort of relief.
And one of the things that stands out at one point, an officer says don't move and they put their hands on his back because he is spitting up blood. You think at that point he may have been turned over and been able to just sit up, he'd been able to get some air. There's another part where you can hear them sort of congratulating each other about a good job and what's been done moving forward.
This is disturbing when you watch the entire 30 minutes because the one thing that is constant about this, is you can hear him gasping for air. You can hear him apologizing and you just wonder why, with him really having no ability to run anywhere since it's a closed off street, why wasn't he turned over?
That's something that's very common in policing, I talk to police officers across the country this week who watch this video. That's the one thing that stands out to them, the fact that there never seems to be any chance for him to get any relief. Don?
LEMON: Captain Johnson, in this new body cam video, it is clear that Ronald Greene is in distress. As Ryan just mentioned, that he spinning up blood, he said their hands are on his back or what have. he's in a prone position. He's handcuff, he's told to keep laying on his belly and we've already seen the video of Ronald Greene being kicked, tased and dragged by troopers. Does any of this look like an acceptable procedure to you?
RON JOHNSON, RETIRED CAPTAIN, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: No, it's definitely an excessive use of force. I think the other guest talk everything you talked about is true, and even in one statement the officer says he was left, I thought he was dead. And so that officer realized what distress that Mr. Greene was in, and yes, having him remain on his stomach, he was trying to roll over to get some breath and there was no reason, they were congratulating themselves, really no sympathy for what was going on. They were just kind of mulling around, washing their hands, and doing those things. Unacceptable.
LEMON: Captain, at one point the officer who arrives on the scene, he appears to be a supervisor. He tells the other troopers they did a good job. It's not clear why he's offering praise or what he knew about the incident, but does that say anything to you?
JOHNSON: I saw that, that they were fist pumping, saying you did a good job. There was nothing there to congratulate anybody on. And as a supervisor, you see someone in distress like that, that should be your main goal and not to be out there making it seem like you are on some big hunting and you did something really well.
LEMON: Ryan, now the Louisiana State Police are releasing all this video evidence. You know, I know you have been covering this and you have been trying to get this video out there. Are official saying anything more about this? YOUNG: Don, you know originally this week, they said they basically
were not going to talk because the federal investigation here. But the one thing that's constant, everyone in the nation has made it clear, transparency works best when all the information comes out. So, if everything was laid out, we wouldn't have these drips and drabs of information, and people could get a clearer picture. So that way your whole sort of investigative agency is not impugn by this drips and drabs of our video. And of course, it's been two years since the investigation for started.
LEMON: All right. Ryan and Captain Johnson, thank you both. I appreciate it.
He was attacked by five or six people, they screamed obscenities at him and they beat him. He's just one of many Jewish people being attacked across this country right now and he speaks out right here, next.
[22:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We're learning about attacks targeting Jewish people in several cities across the United States as tensions flare over the Israeli- Palestinian conflict where violence between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza left hundreds of people dead.
In New York Times Square, a 29-year-old man wearing yarmulke was punched, kicked, and pepper sprayed during an incident involving five or six individuals yesterday. Some of the attackers chanting f Jews, f Israel, and I have to warn you the video is graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Why are they doing that?
UNKNOWN: No idea.
UNKNOWN: Hey, I like that. This is full stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It is outrageous and disgusting. Tonight, police telling CNN that a 23-year-old man is unrest facing multiple charges including hate crime assault.
Joining me now, the man who was attacked in that assault, his name is Joseph Borgen, who we are so glad he's out of the hospital tonight. Joseph, thank you. I'm so sorry for what happened to you. How are you doing tonight?
[22:29:58]
JOSEPH BORGEN, TIMES SQUARE ATTACK VICTIM: First of all, thanks for having me on the show. You know, after watching that video, honestly, I've only seen it once or twice it's hard for me to watch. Honestly, I'm more thankful that, you know, I'm sitting here talking to you guys, I'm here with my family able to celebrate the Sabbaths after seeing what happened, because honestly it could've been much worse. And you know, you know, I could've been seriously hurt or even killed, you know.
LEMON: It's infuriating. I can't even -- I mean, it's infuriating just for the average person to watch. I can't imagine being the person that they were stomping on and beating. The video is shocking.
BORGEN: Yes.
LEMON: What was happening before you were attacked? What happened?
BORGEN: So, it's ironic because I had gone to, you know, we -- there was a rally, you know, called at 47th and 7th, as there was last week. I went to this rally last week. I was there, I wore my kippah, my yarmulke my head covering for the, you know. I was there for upwards of two or three hours without any major issues. You know, here and there be an incident, but, you know, for the most part it was pretty peaceful.
But last night there was another rally called for, and you know, I got off the subway at 57th and 7th. Same routine, walk into the rally. You know, honestly, texting my friends I'll be there in a few minutes, see you soon. And then you know, next thing you know, at the corner of my eyes I see someone chasing me from behind. Before I could even react, I was surrounded by a crowd of people who proceeded as you can see in the video, beat me down and then after the fact, pepper sprayed amazed me. You know, once I was --
LEMON: And the thing that, you know, that was horrible, horrific enough but then when you look at that SUV could've backed over you. I'm looking at that SUV trying to back up and you were laying there on the ground.
BORGEN: Yes. I mean frankly, that driver, yes, I look in hindsight. Yes, I mean, as soon as they were on top of me attacking me, I literally fell to the ground just protecting head and protecting my face doing what I could to ensure that you know, honestly, my main thought was to survive at that point. Make it out alive and, you know, we'll see what happens next.
And thankfully, you know, the NYPD showed up within a few minutes pretty quickly, you know, dispersed the crowd, you know, apprehended one of the suspects. And I'll be honest, you know, at the hospital, I met with some of the highest levels of the hate crime unit, and they seem pretty intent on, you know, doing more research more diligence and figuring out everyone else that was involved. So, I'm very thankful for that as well.
LEMON: As well they should. Before I ask you about the Anti-Defamation League what do you want to say because some people did come to your rescue in that video. You can see.
BORGEN: I mean, I'll be honest, whoever did help me in that video, there were a couple of individuals. Anyone who did help me, I would love for them to reach out to me and I love to thank them.
LEMON: The Anti-Defamation League says that they're a spike in reported cases of possible anti-Semitic attacks since the conflict began. I have friends who are in Los Angeles who have had similar experiences.
BORGEN: Correct.
LEMON: Before you experience this, was that a concern of yours, Joseph?
BORGEN: I told, as I told numerous reporters today, I would never even, you know, second guess my opportunity to wear a yarmulke to wear kippah to portray or broadcast back there that I was Jewish. I was never -- I never second guess that in my entire life. I lived in New York my entire life. I live in New York City for the past decade or so. And you know, like I said, a week ago it did seem like nothing will happen to me.
So, you know, there was no hesitation in my mind to a, attend this rally, and to b, do so as a proud, you know, Jew who is supporting Israel.
LEMON: Well, you were talking about wearing your kippah but I have friends who are taking them as this is off for their house or for their doors?
BORGEN: Yes. I've seen -- I've seen -- it's difficult. I've seen post about that. Thankfully.
LEMON: Yes.
BORGEN: Mine was -- I haven't received any threats or anything like that, but if so, that's completely wrong in my opinion as well. So, anyone who is doing that, you know, that should be condemned.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, I asked what you thought of the people who helped you. What do you want to say, if anything, to the people who attacked you, Joseph?
BORGEN: I mean, I don't want to seek revenge per se and like, you know, attack them physically and do so at them. My main concern and my main takeaway is, what made people -- what made, you know, attackers or individuals get to that point of hate? You know, they saw an innocent bystander, innocent individual walking and proceeded to, you know, the first thing to do is to attack them and hurt them and, you know, pepper spraying attempt to seriously hurt him.
I mean, for example, I'm going to the rally. I'm not protesting, but I'm there to broadcast peace, for everyone from the Jews for everyone that's involved. You know, that's all we want. We don't want any. No one wants that. But, I mean, my last concern is to, you know, go ahead and start hurting people. So.
LEMON: Yes. BORGEN: My main idea and my main takeaway would to understand where they're coming from because I don't -- I don't get it to be honest. Like, no -- nothing in my life has ever made me (Inaudible). So, I'm just -- that would be my main takeaway.
[22:34:57]
LEMON: Listen, there is nothing to get from a random attack. It should not happen. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
BORGEN: Thank you for having me.
LEMON: We're glad that you're OK and that you get to spend this Friday with your family. Thank you, Joseph.
BORGEN: Thank you so much. I appreciate it, guys. Have a good one. Thank you for having me.
LEMON: You, too. Democrats can't get their voting rights bill moving in the Senate. The state Republicans are getting their bills passed all across the country, and Texas, well, it could be next. I'm going to speak with a Texas Dem right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Democrats struggling to find a path forward on a stalled voting rights bill that's already passed in the House but currently doomed to fail in the Senate. It comes as Republicans across the country are pushing for more restrictive voting laws including in Texas. A bill there is now only a few steps away from Republican Governor Greg Abbott's desk as a closed-door committee works on the final version of the legislation.
[22:39:59]
Joining me now Democratic Congressman Colin Allred of Texas. Congressman, thank you for joining. I appreciate it.
REP. COLIN ALLRED (D-TX): Thanks for having me on, Don.
LEMON: As we watch these attacks on voting rights and the circus going on in Arizona, the bill there in Texas where you are gives partisan poll watchers more power, bans counties from sending unsolicited mail- in ballot applications. What would the impact of that be?
REP. COLIN ALLRED (D-TX): Well, listen, Don, this is all in service of the big lie. It's already incredibly hard to vote in the state of Texas and they had to actually be kind of creative to find new ways to make it harder. And you mentioned the partisan poll watchers intimidating voters in the polling places trying to limit local election officials from doing from whatever they can within the already strict limits to help you a vote.
What they are doing and what looks like to me is they're trying to push longer lines onto election day to make it harder for folks to vote knowing that a lot of folks won't be able to wait in line for that long. You limit early voting, you limit vote by mail, you make election day have more pressure on it.
LEMON: You know, you flipped your district from red to blue in 2018. Is this all about Republicans trying to make sure that trend can't continue?
ALLRED: You know, it's hard for me to understand because in the state of Texas we have 11 million Texans vote in the last election, Republicans still did well here. You know, Donald Trump won by over five points, John Cornyn won by around 10 points. And so, you would think that they was like, look at this turnout, we can be confident that when a lot of folks came out to vote we can still win.
But what's really motivating this is, I think it's just trying to stroke the ego of the former president and trying to fulfill this idea that the last election was stolen and that they have to do something about it. That's all and not true, it would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
You mentioned Arizona where they are trying to find bamboo samples on the valleys because I think they may have been tampered within China. I mean, this is -- this is really beyond the realm of anything we've ever seen before but it is extremely dangerous.
LEMON: Yes. Well, they see how close Texas is, I mean, no doubt. I mean, they see the diminishing returns. Even though they did well, they're not doing as well as they had done before. Listen, the Republicans are purging people who stand up for the truth, doing everything they can to sink the bipartisan commission, looking at the January 6th incident on the capitol. How do you feel about the votes of your Republican colleagues in the House this week? Were there more than you expected? Or fewer?
ALLRED: Yes. Well, I do want to thank my colleagues on this side came over into the right thing and voted for this bipartisan 9/11-style commission. That was negotiated in a bipartisan manner and that really gave them everything they asked for. For those who didn't, and I know there were some who were in the room with me, Don, when we were o evacuated from the House floor who were in that room when we're awaiting and didn't know what was going to happen and who I saw how worried and how afraid they were that day.
You know, all I can say is that I think a bit as being cowardice to not vote to try and study this. I understand that there's political pressure around this for them, but this is about the nation, this is about our democracy. This is one of the worst attacks on our democracy in our history. And we can't come together and have a bipartisan commission to study and make sure it doesn't happen again? I mean, it's just outrageous.
But it did pass the House and now the onus shifts to the Senate where I hope we can find enough Republican senators to join us in doing the right thing to make this commission a reality.
LEMON: Speaking of outrageous, I have to mention her, sorry for that. Marjorie Taylor Greene comparing the House mask mandate to the Holocaust. She's attacking the House Speaker. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
M. GREENE: You know, we can look back in a time in history where people were told to wear a gold star and they were definitely treated like second class citizens, so much so that they were put in trains and taken into gas chambers in Nazi Germany. And this is exactly the type of abuse that Nancy Pelosi is talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Listen, there are people who are elected to the Congress and the Senate who were stuck on stupid. She's comparing public health safety to Nazi atrocities. We should point out that only 45 percent of House Republicans have said if they have been vaccinated. What's this about?
ALLRED: You know, Don, I don't know. It's so damaging because statements like that are why we are having so much vaccine hesitancy among Republicans in this country right now. And when we have less than half of the Republican caucus in the House admitting that they have been vaccinated, that also contributes to folks around the country not getting vaccinated.
We want to beat this virus. We want to get back to normal. We've got to get everybody vaccinated. And you know, these kinds of statements, I mean, obviously it's outrageous to compare this to the Holocaust. It's shameful.
LEMON: It's offensive.
ALLRED: It should not -- no member of Congress should say it, but it's so damaging also because there are people who will get sick who didn't have to get sick. If these -- if folks would actually just show some leadership at all and encourage their supporters to get vaccinated like so many others have.
[22:45:05]
LEMON: Yes. It's offensive, she doesn't seem to care, Republicans don't either. Thank you, Colin Allred. I appreciate it.
ALLRED: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: For 22 years he said he was innocent, and now DNA evidence on the murder weapon is pointing to someone else. But Ledell Lee was executed four years ago. More next.
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LEMON: An Arkansas man insisted he was innocent of murder right up until the day he was put to death. But tonight, four years after Ledell Lee's execution, his attorney says new DNA testing may prove he was right all along.
[22:50:04]
CNN's Martin Savidge has the story now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): On the night of April 20th, 2017, Ledell Lee stepped into the death chamber of the Cummins Unit, Lincoln County, Arkansas. He was dropped to a gurney. He said nothing. His final words heard earlier in an interview with the BBC.
UNKNOWN: But my dying words will always be, and as it has been. I am an innocent man.
SAVIDGE: Lee spent 22 years on Arkansas's death row, never changing his story.
LEE SHORT, ATTORNEY: To maintain innocence for over 20 years, I mean that's something that I'm not familiar with.
SAVIDGE: So, he never confessed to you that he had committed the murder?
SHORT: Not once, not even hinted at it.
SAVIDGE: Now four years after his execution, new DNA testing has raised serious questions about his case. Lee's attorney got a call explaining the findings.
What do you think?
SHORT: I think if those results had been had before he was executed, he'd still be alive.
SAVIDGE: Lee was sentenced to death for the 1993 murder of Debra Reese, found strangled and clubbed to death in her home outside Little Rock. Prosecutors in the case relied on eyewitnesses, who testified seeing Lee enter and leaves Reese's house the day of the crime.
Even after the execution, Lee's family continued to investigate with the help of the ACLU and the Innocence Project, recently they were able to gain access to some crucial evidence, including the murder weapon. And they did something that had never been done before, tested it for DNA.
What they found confirmed their fears. There was DNA, but it belonged to someone else, and as yet unidentified man. In a statement, Lee's sister simply said, we're glad there's new evidence in the national DNA database, and remain hopeful that there will be further information uncovered in the future. We asked for privacy for our family in this difficult time.
Lee's family, the Innocence Project and the ACLU turned out our interview requests, citing their ongoing investigation. Why didn't Lee's attorney four years ago get DNA testing to try to stop his client's execution?
Did you ask for DNA testing?
SHORT: We did. We asked for DNA testing and with the assistance of the Innocence Project and it was denied.
SAVIDGE: Judge Herbert Wright was among those who deny the testing requests, saying witnesses and other evidence tied Lee to the murder, so in his mind, DNA or the lack of it wasn't likely to make any difference.
HERBERT WRIGHT, CIRCUIT JUDGE 6TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT, ARKANSAS: The judicial standard of review that we look is whether it was likely to, and my decision was that it wasn't likely to change the verdict.
SAVIDGE: You knew by saying that, you are pretty much saying the execution can go forward?
WRIGHT: I knew that.
SAVIDGE: Why not allow testing of something as critical as DNA? Lee's attorney says, because that would've taken more time. And time is something the state of Arkansas was quickly running out of.
The drug Arkansas used for lethal injection was set to expire 10 days after Lee's scheduled execution date. The state openly used that fact as one of their arguments against delay. Death penalty critics were outraged.
SHORT: It seems problematic to you, to me, the international community certainly, had an outcry. Arkansas politicians didn't care.
SAVIDGE: And it appears they still don't. Arkansas's governor defended Lee's execution despite the new DNA discovery.
GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AR): The evidence obviously that was uncovered is inconclusive and the fact is that the jury found guilty based on the information that they had.
SAVIDGE: Arkansas's attorney general who is now running for governor has no regrets. Why wasn't there DNA testing before his execution?
LESLIE RUTLEDGE (R), ATTORNEY GENERAL OF ARKANSAS: Again, the jury heard the evidence
SAVIDGE: That's how one I'm talking about.
RUTLEDGE: I get -- I understand.
SAVIDGE: In the appellate process after that.
RUTLEDGE: Well, the courts --
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Why was it turned down? Why couldn't the DNA be done?
RUTLEDGE: Well the courts determined that there was no reason to hear that evidence, that he was not making a proper petition.
SAVIDGE: I asked Judge Wright if he had second thoughts after hearing about the new DNA test results.
WRIGHT: One of my worst fears is missing that piece of evidence that goes the other way, but in this case based on what was in front of me, I feel like I made the right decision. I don't necessarily like the decision, but it was the legally correct decision to make.
SAVIDGE: Is that justice for Debra Reese?
RUTLEDGE: The wrong person was not put to death. The right person was put to death. Ledell Lee murdered Debra Reese.
SAVIDGE: You're 100 percent certain that the right person was put to death, that Debra Reese --
(CROSSTALK)
[22:55:05]
RUTLEDGE: I absolutely stand by the lawful conviction of the jury and the decisions of the courts.
SAVIDGE: Lee's defense attorney also thinks about Debra Reese's family and all they have been through, but --
SHORT: I don't think anyone wants someone the wrong person to be killed in your name.
SAVIDGE: That's not justice.
SHORT: That's not justice at all, and it's a shame that they were told that it would be.
SAVIDGE: Martin Savidge, CNN, Little Rock, Arkansas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Martin Savidge, thank you. And thanks for watching. Our coverage continues with CNN special report, a radical rebellion, the transformation of the GOP.
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