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Don Lemon Tonight
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Responds To House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy; President Biden Orders To Lower Flag Today At Half- Staff; Eight People Killed In Mass Shooting In San Jose Rail Yard; Senate Set To Vote Tomorrow On January 6th Commission; Manhattan Prosecutors Tell A Witness To Prepare For Testimony As They Move Criminal Charges Against Trump Organization; Former President Obama Weighed In On Race And Violence. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 26, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): So I see all those storm clouds I told her this prom is not supposed to happen, you should stay home. Let's get changed here. This is the picture she wanted because it's hard to see, she turns to the side, but no. I'm too proud on this. Look at my Bella, 18 years old graduating high school, going to prom. I just -- I can't believe it. Any parent will know this.
I'll bring in Uncle Don Lemon here. "DON LEMON TONIGHT" is going to start in just a second. Look at this moment, Don.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: My gosh.
CUOMO: I know.
LEMON: My baby has grown up.
CUOMO: Look at the next one. Don, show the next picture.
LEMON: I'm sad.
CUOMO: There. Jesus, crew. So, there is me.
LEMON: She is so gorgeous.
CUOMO: There's her with her friend Max, little too good-looking but otherwise that's OK. I was holding it together. I was there with this bunch of parents and I was trying to hold it together but I could not believe I was taking the picture of this kid whose diaper I was changing five minutes ago, who I saw play the piano for the first time, who I saw being afraid to go to high school. And now she's going to prom, they're buying buses, they're going there, she's going to Europe. She's doing this. And then this is my favorite picture. Look at this one.
LEMON: She is gorgeous. That look --
CUOMO: Zoom in on the look I'm giving him. LEMON: I know. Chris, you sent me that and I said -- I said no mean,
you can't do a mean enough look. Look -- look how good-looking that kid is.
CUOMO: I know.
LEMON: You're in trouble. I mean, look, they're the perfect couple. They're gorgeous. And if you think a mean look is going to keep Bella from that guy, he's so handsome, I think you're in a world of trouble.
CUOMO: I said to him, I said these storm clouds they are just a whisper of the hell I can bring your way. No, he's a great kid.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You know my first thing --
CUOMO: His dad is a great guy. And look, you know, it's good that you have friends going. I trust him. It's very nice. But I've got to tell you, I was a mess when I was leaving there. I took pictures with her at home. Cha-cha took a picture with her.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I'm just so proud of her, you know?
LEMON: When I saw that picture, I said, she looks gorgeous, obviously. And then I said wait a minute, is she going to prom with Maurice Dubois' son? Maurice DuBois is a big anchorman here in the city and they got a resemblance --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Good man, I don't know that he's that good-looking.
LEMON: Yes. That kid is good-looking, but, I mean, come on -- who -- I mean, look --
CUOMO: He reminds me of a younger, tanner me.
LEMON: Bella, come on. Bella deserves, you know, a great looking guy. She's a great looking young lady and we're so proud of her. I mean, she's just the salt of the earth.
CUOMO: She's a good kid.
LEMON: And who's her favorite anchor on TV?
CUOMO: Well, you. She had this -- I thought it like she'd outgrow it. And then I've got a niece whose like claim to fame is that she looks like you.
LEMON: Yes. But you see what I did? Look at my tie. Can you put the child's picture back up?
CUOMO: To match her dress. LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: It's very nice. You have just an inherence sense of style that's why you are her favorite Uncle Don. I just love that she's got good friends.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I love that she's in a good place. It's all you want. You'll see when you get in the kid game, all you want is for them to be happy.
LEMON: Well.
CUOMO: And for her to make it to this point in her life, I just -- what -- nothing else matters.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Nothing else matters.
LEMON: And she's off to college. Again, such a great kid.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I bet I'm not ready for it.
LEMON: You're so -- you're so lucky and she is, too, that she looks like Christina.
CUOMO: No college. College is a waste. I'll tell her stay home, stay with me. You can cut the grass.
LEMON: I got to run. Congratulations
CUOMO: All right. D. Lemon, thank you for giving me the time.
LEMON: Congratulations. I know she's going to have a great time. I want to hear all about it. I want to see pictures. And I will hear all about it this week.
CUOMO: Yes, I got to jump in the truck now and get the laser side train. I'll talk to you later.
LEMON: See you later. I love you. I'll talk to you later.
This is DON LEMON TONIGHT, and thank you for joining us.
So, let me ask you a question. let me ask you a question. The Republican Party's leaders want to shove the January 6th attempt to overthrow democracy down a memory hole. You know what the memory hole is, right? Ninety eighty-four Orwell, memory hole, so that you'll forget about it and that they can move on right alongside the former president, the former guy.
The question is will they succeed? We are all -- we're talking about one of the darkest days in American history, a vote tomorrow in the Senate to open debate on the bill is all but certain to be filibustered by Republicans. It is a tool that they've got -- that they got, and look where they're going to use it for.
I should tell you I have new contacts. I'm having trouble reading, so bear with me, everybody. New contacts just today. Yes, if you can make the prompter bigger there, that'd be great. I'm not used to my new contacts.
But so, they're trying to whitewash a domestic terror attack on Capitol Hill. Why? Why are they trying to do it? They're trying to do it because they don't want you to remember it. Because it's just so inconvenient for them.
If anyone asks questions about it, they don't want people to talk about it. God forbid they get to the bottom of it, no. Investigate it, no. How cowardly do you have to be to bury your head in the sand and shutdown any questions about the brutal attack that we all saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears?
[22:05:04]
How afraid of a mean tweet, I mean press release now because he can't tweet, do you have to be to ignore the gallows that we all saw, the violent rioters we all heard?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): How cowardly do you have to be to ignore what happened to the brave police officers, true American heroes trying to defend the capitol, trying to save the lives of the same people who are now trying to bury what happened.
The mother of fallen capitol police officer Brian Sicknick, demanding to meet with Republican senators tomorrow. At least 15 of those senators have agreed to that meeting. And Gladys Sicknick, has the courage to tell them the truth, saying in a statement and I quote here.
"I suggest all congressmen and senators who are against this bill visit my son's grave in Arlington National Cemetery and while there, think about what their hurtful decisions will do to those officers who will be there for them going forward. Putting politics aside wouldn't they want to know the truth of what happened on January 6th? If not, they do not deserve to have the jobs they were elected to do."
So, two officers you have heard from on this show will be with Gladys Sicknick tomorrow. Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn and D.C. Metropolitan Police Office Michael Fanone. Remember what Officer Dunn told me about the lawmakers trying to white wash history?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: Some Republican lawmakers and even the former president, they're trying to rewrite history saying that the riots, that they weren't that bad and the rioters were actually antifa. I know you have said that this isn't political for you. But how do you respond to them twisting the truth like that?
HARRY DUNN, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER: It's hurtful. It's hurtful and it's kind of like a slap in the face without even asking us or talking to us about what we went through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Remember what Officer Fanone told me?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL FANONE, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: I'm not a politician, I'm not an elected official. I don't expect anybody to give two shits about my opinions, but I will say this. You know, those are lies. And peddling that bullshit is an assault to every officer that fought for this capitol. It's disgraceful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): And while Republicans are trying to bury the truth, the danger is not over yet. A federal judge writing in an opinion today the big lie could still spur Trump supporters to violence. Quote, "the steady drum beat that inspired defendant to take up arms has not faded away.
Six months later, the canard that the election was stolen is being repeated daily on major news outlets and from the corridors of power and state and federal government, not to mention in a near-daily fulminations of the former president."
And the leaders of the GOP, well, they just couldn't be more weak and more cowardly. Kevin McCarthy taking a beating from a QAnon congresswoman after he finally spoke out against her anti-Semitic lunacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Kevin McCarthy never had to say a word. He could have said, you know, you should ask Marjorie about her words and ask her what she had to say. That would have been the right answer for him. So, it's unfortunate that he took this route and he didn't even text me or call me, which is really a shame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Weak and cowardly. But in the face of all that it seems Republicans are going to use the first filibuster of the Biden administration to bury the January 6th commission before it's even begun. Mitt Romney saying blocking the commission, quote, "would be seen as wanting to let the truth come out, as not wanting to let the truth come out." And that's exactly what it is, not wanting to let the truth come out.
They don't want to let the truth come out in this because they know it's damaging to them. That's why Republicans are going to filibuster the commission. I suppose that's to be expected from the GOP right now.
But in all honesty what about the Democrats? What about the Democrats? What about the party that's supposed to be operating in reality? Senators Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema are watching what's happening really closely because they are the ones who have pledged not to change the filibuster and the 60-vote threshold to get anything of substances done.
Senator Manchin just yesterday pushing back on blowing up the filibuster saying, quote, "I can't take the fallout." What does that mean? He can't take the fallout? So, are Democrats going to knuckle under to a GOP that won't accept basic facts and try to whitewash history? Are they going to refuse to axe the filibuster when it may be the only way to get anything done?
[22:10:05]
Are they going to accept a GOP that refuses to investigate the insurrection, that threaten the foundation of democracy? Krysten Sinema, Joe Manchin, that's what's at stake here. Operating in truth. Are you going to tell the truth, be honest with your constituents and tell them they're not operating in reality? That's what leaders do. Our democracy is at stake here. We're in a country that has a lot to grapple with right now.
Just today in the latest explosion of gun violence a shooter killed eight people when he opened fire in a massacre at a San Jose rail yard today. Eight families who will never see their loved ones again. The gunman and employee there is also dead.
The President of the United States Joe Biden lowering the flag to half-staff for the fifth time in his short presidency and saying this, quote, "I have the solemn of yet again lowering the flag to be lowered at half-staff just weeks after doing so following the mass shootings at spas in and around Atlanta, in a grocery store in Boulder, Colorado, at a home in Rockhill, South Carolina and at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis, Indiana. Enough. Every life that is taken by a bullet pierces the soul of our nation. We can and we must do more."
And here we are tonight, another mass shooting and Congress does absolutely nothing. An insurrection that threatened our democracy and Congress won't investigate. The reality is the GOP is stalling for time. They're hoping Americans move on. That's what they're hoping.
Are you going to let them move on with no accountability? I can't just be the only one here talking about it every single night. You have to do something about it. You have to demand something from your leaders. Leaders who are in a death grip of a disgraced twice impeached, one- term former president who lost the House and the Senate and the White House and who is now under a grand jury investigation. There are people who can stand up, 10 senators. Are there 10
Republican senators who will defend democracy? I think I know the answer to that. But I hope I'm wrong, honestly.
And we're hearing tonight from another Democratic president who had his own battles with Republicans. Remember when Mitch McConnell vowed to make Barack Obama a one-term president? That didn't work out the way he planned, but tonight the former president is speaking out about justice in America, saying that he went as far as he could in his comments about Trayvon Martin and Ferguson while he was in office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I went as far as I could just commenting on cases like Trayvon Martin or what was happening in Ferguson because as we discovered not every president follows this, at least my successor didn't. But I followed the basic notion that the Justice Department was independent, I could not steer them.
I did not in any way want to endanger their capacity to go in, investigate and potentially charge perpetrators, which meant that I could not come down or appear to come down decisively in terms of guilt or innocence in terms of what happened. So, you had institutional constraints.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Are there 10 Republicans who will stand up for democracy? Are there? That's a question for former Republican Congressman and former Governor of Ohio, Mr. John Kasich. He's next.
Plus, up ahead, more tonight from former President Barack Obama speaking out about justice for Black and Brown Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The criminal justice system in this country has never operated in a color-blind fashion. And that the consequences for families and communities has been devastating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): Here's what's happening tomorrow. The Senate is going to take up a key vote on whether to even open debate on a bill creating a commission to investigate the deadly January 6th capitol attack.
Now most Republicans are vowing to filibuster the bill in order to block it and right now Democrats don't have the 60 votes they need to overcome a filibuster. So, let's discuss now with CNN's senior commentator Mr. John Kasich
joins us, he's a former Republican Congressman and former Ohio governor. Thank you, sir. Good to see you. Doing OK?
JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you. Doing fine.
LEMON: So, John, why are Republicans in Washington and I guess many around the country, but leaders, why are they intent on putting January 6 in a memory hole, the idea that they would filibuster a bill to investigate, just to investigate? I mean, we're talking about an attack on our democracy. Lives were lost. Are they going to get away with doing this?
KASICH: Well, I think it's totally wrong that they would do that, Don. Let me try to explain the way I've thought about it, I thought about it today when I heard about, you know, what might happen because I was hoping they were going to actually pass this thing.
I think Republicans are deciding that, you know, they're not going to do this, that they're going to keep their people together, their base together, that they're not going to put a lot of proposals out there particularly in the House and that their folks will stay with them through the election, and then they'll you know, Republicans will look and they'll say, well, I don't like a lot of what's going on, but I certainly don't like what the Democrats are doing because they're moving so far left, so they'll just vote Republican.
It's almost like, a parliamentary system we have now with tribes, frankly, on both sides. And so, I think it's terrible that they're going to make this -- think about this. To filibuster an investigation into January 6th.
[22:19:59]
We created the investigations on 9/11. We created investigations there was an article written today about all the way going back to the Kennedy assassination. Of course, there should be a bipartisan investigation. I think the Republicans think we're not going to do it, our voters aren't going to care, they're going to stay with us and then they are going to put us in a majority in the House and maybe even the Senate. And I think its just crude --
LEMON: Well, John.
KASICH: -- power politics and I don't like it.
LEMON: OK. What does that have to, a couple things. I don't understand what that has to do with the truth, especially when democracy is under attack in a way that it has never been before. The second thing is like, people always say, you know, that's like a throwaway line on both sides and that where are Democrats moving that far -- where is Joe Biden?
Let's put it, the person who is in charge, the legislation that he's proposing, the things that he's doing -- how is that far left?
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: Don, Don --
LEMON: How is that --
KASICH: -- what he's proposing is not -- is not what he campaigned on. I mean, he's spending -- proposing spending money and changing the nature in many ways of the way we do things in the United States.
Look, I endorsed the guy. What he's running on and what he's saying now is not what he campaigned on. He campaigned on bringing us together. Now there's an infrastructure bill. The Republicans have a proposal (Inaudible) --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: John, how can he bring people together --
KASICH: -- to get to about $1 trillion -- they are not just --
LEMON: -- when they don't want to work with him? That's what --
KASICH: Don,
LEMON: He's meeting -- hold on, hold on. Hold on.
KASICH: OK.
LEMON: He's bringing people to the White House.
KASICH: Yes.
LEMON: He's asking Republicans to get onboard with this. He's asking if you don't like my plans can you offer me your own proposals. I don't understand when you say he's not -- he's trying this --
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: OK. Let me answer that, Don.
LEMON: -- bipartisanship and Republicans are saying -- hold on.
KASICH: Don, let me answer that.
LEMON: Mitch McConnell is saying --
KASICH: Don?
LEMON: -- I'm not going to do it. What we're going to do is just basically block everything that Joe Biden wants.
KASICH: Don, you're filibustering me. I just told you the Republicans have a plan, they're going to --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I'm asking you a question. I'm asking you a question.
KASICH: Well, I'm giving you an answer. I just give you my --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: OK. Well, let me get my question out then I'll give you time to answer.
KASICH: Well, no -- all right go ahead.
LEMON: But you can't jump in and answer while I'm still -- I asked you the question. I said how is he -- he's the one quite honestly, who's inviting Republicans to the table. Republicans are saying no --
KASICH: Yes.
LEMON: -- to every single thing that he is asking for and not offering any proposals.
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: First of all, that's false.
LEMON: How is it false. Tell me what are they doing?
KASICH: That's because the Republicans have offered an infrastructure plan. Now they've upped their number to about a trillion dollars. It's about the same number that Biden has. If they're going to put that on the table, but I guarantee you the Democrats won't accept it.
You just said they don't offer a plan. They have a plan and it's focused on bridges and highways, the things that are true infrastructure. And they're taking money that is not --
LEMON: John --
KASICH: -- that is not even going to be spent in this year -- wait a minute, I'm finishing now, Don. And they are bringing --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: The things that were true infrastructure in 1987.
KASICH: Don --
LEMON: We live in a society now where you need broadband. We live in a society now you need to be on the grid. Ask Texans what happened in the winter.
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: You know what, that's in their proposal. That is in their proposal. And by the way, I don't want the government running broadband. I want the private sector running broadband, so they have a trillion-dollar proposal. What's funny about that? That's what they put out there. Now, what Biden could say is, yes, I'll accept that. But you know why
they won't accept it because they don't want to give either, and they're dealing with the same problem internally. They're dealing with big problems internally about is the left going to come after them?
And he's on a tightrope. I mean, look, I'm going to tell it like I see it, Don. I don't like what they're doing on the January 6th commission. I think it's outrageous. I think it's atrocious.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But, John, but quite honestly, to say that it's both sides is really disingenuous. And the proposals that the Republicans are making now has nothing to do, is not even close to what Joe Biden offered initially. It's not even close to that. And to say that --
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: Don, that's not true.
LEMON: -- and there's nothing. It is true.
KASICH: That's not true. I'm sorry, it's not true.
LEMON: OK, OK. OK. We'll have to disagree on that.
KASICH: I mean, I'm telling you they're going to put a trillion dollars on the table. A trillion dollars, that's exactly what Biden had. OK? And they're going to take some of the money from unspent money that they overspent in this year. The White House isn't going to like that.
LEMON: Yes. And according to some of the Republicans Biden might actually agree to that. And that's some of the reporting.
KASICH: That'd be great. I'm for it.
LEMON: But that hasn't happened yet.
KASICH: I'm for it.
LEMON: But to say that it happens on both sides --
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: Well, I mean, they're negotiating, Don.
LEMON: But to -- exactly. But to say that it happens on both sides that's what's happening on the Republican side is similar to what the Democrats are doing. It's just disingenuous, John. That is not what's happening now.
KASICH: Don, let me tell you something. In the beginning the Republicans went down to talk to Biden about his $1.9 trillion plan. Republicans left the White House. They had their own plan. To me it was too little. Ok? It was too little. But that's how you negotiate. I negotiated the budget agreement that got us to a balanced budget. I negotiated Pentagon reform. I know how negotiations work. One side starts here, one side and see if you can come together.
[22:25:01]
When the Republicans left, they said that they had a good meeting, and the White House staff laughed about it. They said that wasn't a good meeting, and they just jammed the $1.9 trillion through. Now, if you want to have a negotiation both sides have to give. And I will tell you --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: How do you know that they're --
KASICH: -- that the words -- the last point I want to make.
LEMON: -- you're assuming the Republican side -- you're assuming that the Republicans are telling the truth. And you're assuming that the White House is not telling the truth about the meeting.
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: Well, I'm only reading news, I'm reading news reports.
LEMON: OK.
KASICH: I'm reading news reports. Where do you want me to go? Now look, when McConnell said it's my job to stop what Biden is doing, I completely disagree with that. And over in the House they're not serious at all about this. We'll see what the problem solvers come out with, but they are -- the House Republicans, I can't be more critical of them than I've been.
LEMON: Yes.
KASICH: But I'm just trying to suggest to you when you have people that want to do a deal, then you've got to sit down. And it's painful to reach agreement. I know. I was there.
LEMON: Yes.
KASICH: When we got the balance budget agreement through the Wall Street Journal called me William Jefferson Kasich, mocking me because I put the deal together. I know how hard it is.
LEMON: John, listen, I know you do --
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: So, I understand your frustration.
LEMON: I know you do. But, listen, with all due respect we're not --
KASICH: That's right. LEMON: -- when you did that, we were not in the time we're in now.
KASICH: terrible.
LEMON: We're not in a such a time where people are so divided. I got to ask you one more question, though.
KASICH: I agree.
LEMON: You got moderate Democrat --
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: But I love you anyway.
LEMON: It's not about this.
KASICH: I love you anyway, Don.
LEMON: We're having a -- that has nothing to do with it.
KASICH: Yes. No.
LEMON: We're having a conversation that is I think is very important.
KASICH: Adult conversation. Yes.
LEMON: Joe Manchin is a moderate Democrat. He does not support blowing up the filibuster over any of this. And in the past Krysten Sinema has said that she doesn't support killing it. Why the blind allegiance to saving the filibuster when Democrats are the majority and they're getting outplayed by Republicans and considering --
KASICH: Don, I can --
LEMON: -- as I said in the open what's at stake.
KASICH: Yes. I can quote a variety of Democrats including Democrat leaders who made big speeches about not killing the filibuster. The reason why we don't get rid of the filibuster is because that is a process that's supposed to bring the parties together and at the same time not let some crazy idea just become law at the heat of the moment. That's the purpose of the filibuster.
I know it's frustrating. I know it's difficult. I don't like what they're doing on guns, blocking gun legislation. I don't like this stuff. But, Don, if the Republicans kill -- if the Democrats kill the filibuster -- and we went through this before just shoving judges through with no filibuster and a lot of people didn't like the judges that got appointed.
You've got to think about what might happen down the road and the consequences of that when Republicans are in power and then they jam everything the other way. We've got a broken system. Don, wave got a broken system. You hate it, I hate it. It's broken.
LEMON: No, I didn't say I hate it. I'm just analyzing it.
KASICH: I hate the way -- I hate the way it's working for this reason because I'm not familiar with the kind of politics that are going on down there. And I don't like it. I don't hate the system, I hate the politics, when they put politics ahead of the country. So.
LEMON: Well, that's the whole point about the filibuster. We're in a different place right now. Maybe it was a saner place when people were arguing for the filibuster. We're not operating insanity right now.
Thank you, John. I appreciate it. I've gone way too long.
KASICH: You know, with your new show -- your show about grace. We've got to recognize each other's humanity and until we do that we are not going anywhere, my friend.
LEMON: Thank you, John. I appreciate it.
KASICH: Thanks, Don, for letting me speak.
LEMON: Absolutely.
KASICH: All right.
LEMON: Former President Barack Obama speaking out on making change in this country. What he thinks he did wrong and what's going right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The mobilization primarily led by young people over the last year, it gave me hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): A source telling CNN tonight that Manhattan prosecutors pursuing a criminal case against former President Trump and the Trump Organization have told at least one witness to prepare for testimony before the grand jury.
It's seen as a sign that the Manhattan D.A.'s office is poised to move to presenting their case, one that could result in criminal charges against the former president.
Joining me now CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reed, and former federal prosecutor Kim Wehle. She's the author of "What You Need to Know About Voting and Why." And I suggest everyone read that book.
Good evening to both of you. Thanks for joining.
Paula, I'm going to start with you. What more are we learning about this investigation tonight? PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, this is
significant development. Our reporting that at least one witness has been told to prepare to go before the grand jury. It suggests that this investigation is moving into an advance stage.
We know that for the past two years the Manhattan district attorney has been looking into the Trump Organization, looking into these questions about whether they may have lied about their assets when applying for loans or paying their taxes.
Now, when it comes to the potential crime of fraud, they're going to need documents, they're going to need witnesses. And we know the former president he doesn't leave much of a paper trail. He doesn't e- mail, he doesn't text. So, witnesses are going to be key, and all eyes are on the Trump Organization's long time CFO Allen Weisselberg.
He's exactly the kind of person who could if he wanted to cooperate give investigators the kind of insights that they need. He's also currently facing his own tax investigation, which could apply pressure on him and really incentivize him to cooperate. So, all eyes on him right now.
LEMON: So, Paula, talk to me about the timing here of this. How quickly could this move?
REID: So, we know this grand jury has been in panel for about six months. That can be extended. But we also know the Manhattan district attorney's term lasts just a little bit longer than that. So right now, based on the information that we have we're looking about until the end of the year.
[22:34:57]
But, Don, even though we have the grand jury, even though we have identified key witnesses, we know they've been gathering evidence, this is very much an active investigation, there's no guarantee that the former president or anyone else will be charge in this case.
LEMON: Kim, we are learning that prosecutors are looking at the finances of the Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg. Weisselberg is under a lot of pressure to cooperate. Do you think he's going to flip and testify against the Trumps?
KIM WEHLE, FORMER ASSOCIATE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, WHITEWATER INVESTIGATION: Well, it's impossible to tell, although I've read that sources close to him believe it's possible. Look, he goes back to the early 1970s. He has been with the Trump family for decades. He knows where all the bodies are buried.
And as Paula indicates fraud crimes require a showing of knowledge. So, it's not just the paper trail. It's somebody in addition to Michael Cohen, presumably, he's already said this before the United States Congress, someone like Weisselberg to say, listen, Mr. Trump knew about every maneuver that was happening in the 500 plus organizations that make up the umbrella Trump organization. But this is significant because, remember, the grand jury has been
operating since 2019. This is how -- when the Supreme Court got the tax returns just in February. This is a special grand jury that presumably could be impaneled just to decide whether to press charges rather than gathering evidence. That's what makes it so significant.
LEMON: Kim, you have a piece out. It's in the Atlantic where you write about how the country is now close to first indictment and trial of the former president. Could we soon be in uncharted waters here?
WEHLE: Well, absolutely. It's really stunning when you think about how four years ago when people would talk about indicting a sitting president it seemed inconceivable or almost unseemly. Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist 64 whoever gets to the office of the presidency will be a man of integrity.
This is another norm Donald Trump has shattered. We've seen him indicted -- excuse me -- impeached twice. That's historic. But even having this conversation, Don, is really, really stunning and all the pressure of accountability, frankly, for four years of wrongdoing whether it's legally criminal or not.
Four years of wrongdoing in the Trump administration is coming down to the state of New York, both the Manhattan D.A. and the state A.G. because Congress hasn't Done anything, didn't do anything in impeachment and the Justice Department won't prosecutes presidents, sitting presidents. And it's hard to tell whether Merrick Garland would have an appetite for it. So, the states are picking up the slack for the Constitution itself in this moment.
LEMON: All right. We'll continue to follow. Thank you, Kim. Thank you, Paula. I appreciate it.
Former President Barack Obama speaking out about civil rights. He is speaking about policing and he is speaking out about using your voice. Next, someone who was part of that conversation with the former president.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): So, take this. GOP senators are incredibly worried about woke culture in the banking system. At a virtual hearing Senator Pat Toomey warning big bank CEOs not to embrace wokeism. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): What I am concerned about increasing pressure on banks to embrace wokeism and appease the far left's attacks on capitalism. And I worry that continuing down this path could lead to distorted credit allocation, activists seeking to make political change to the financial system instead of through the democratic process, and ultimately diminish prosperity for Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON (on camera): Senator Tim Scott taking a step further admonishing CEOs for signing onto a statement last month opposing voting restrictions.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): It did not prevent anyone from voting and frankly made it easier to vote earlier. And I just -- I'm dumbfounded by what the answer to the question was, yes, we support capitalism but the stakeholder capitalism or the woke capitalism seems to be running amok. And I say that because I can't find anyone who answered the question specifically giving me any examples or specific provisions of the law that we Don't support.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, here's what he's complaining about. Hundreds of companies including Bank of America and Wells Fargo signing an ad in The New York Times pledging to defend the right to vote and oppose discriminatory election legislation. The ad rendering the height of the controversy over Georgia's restrictive voting law.
Remember it was Republicans on Capitol Hill, colleagues of Senator Scott and Toomey who voted to cancel millions of votes from Arizona and Pennsylvania on January 6th with no proof of fraud or rigging. The GOP sure likes it when corporations can exercise free speech with campaign contributions to help their campaigns, but when it comes to companies supporting your right to vote, that speech they take issue with.
We'll be right back with what makes the former president take issue with what's happening in America right now. We'll be right back.
[22:45:00]
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LEMON (on camera): The former president's grip on the Republican Party is not only seen in the halls of Congress, it is evident on the campaign trail. Where they embrace the GOP fringe candidates who want to play a big role in the future of the Republican Party in America.
Here's CNN's Sunlen Serfaty.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
MARK MCCLOSKEY (R) SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: The mob is coming for all of us.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They are brazen provocateurs --
UNKNOWN: Careful because we have the carrot that's being dangled here.
SERFATY: -- emboldened by their full-on embrace --
UNKNOWN: You can't make that decision for me.
SERFATY: -- of former president Trump. Fringe candidates across the country are not holding back, chasing the MAGA crowd support.
MCCLOSKEY: I will never back down.
SERFATY: In Missouri, Mark McCloskey best known as this man brandishing a gun at protesters passing by his St. Louis home last summer is now running for Senate.
MCCLOSKEY: When the angry mob came to destroy my house and kill my family, I took a stand against them. Now I'm asking for the privilege to take that stand for all of us.
SERFATY: And McCloskey making the viral moment that catapulted him into the national spotlight the center of his campaign.
MCCLOSKEY: God came knocking on my door last summer disguise as an angry mob. And it really did wake me up.
SERFATY: McCloskey and his wife becoming celebrities in conservative circles after then President Trump's defense.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: These people were standing there, never used it and they were legal, the weapons. And now I understand somebody local they want to prosecute these people. It's a disgrace.
[22:50:05]
SERFATY: And are using opportunities like prime time speaking spots at the RNC to grow their MAGA fame.
MCCLOSKEY: You've seen us on your TV screens and Twitter feeds. You know that we're not the kind of people who back down. Thankfully, neither is Donald Trump.
SERFATY: In Wyoming --
STATE SEN. ANTHONY BOUCHARD (R-WY): My fight has consistently been with the moderate Senate Republican Party.
SERFATY: State Senator Anthony Bouchard is challenging embattled Congresswoman Liz Cheney.
BOUCHARD: These people who have exposed themselves for how vile they are. They hate you. They hate me, they hate president Trump.
SERFATY: Bouchard dropping a bombshell.
BOUCHARD: Two teenagers. Girl gets pregnant. You've heard those stories before.
SERFATY: Admitting he impregnated a 14-year-old girl when he was 18 years old.
BOUCHARD: She was a little younger than me. So, it's like the Romeo and Juliet story. A lot of pressure. Pressure to abort a baby. I got to tell you, I wasn't going to do it. SERFATY: Taking a page from the Trump play book in moments of
controversy, remaining unapologetically defiant.
BOUCHARD: This is all you've got to intimidate me? Bring it on.
SERFATY: And in Idaho, Ammon Bundy is running for governor. Bundy rising to national prominence after leading a 41-day armed occupation of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon in 2016.
AMMON BUNDY (R), SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to stay here until we have secured the land and the resources back to the people of Oregon County and where they can get back to ranching, get back to logging, get back to using these lands without fear and intimidation.
SERFATY: And is keeping up the antagonism since the beginning of the pandemic, challenging state masking mandates.
BUNDY: You Don't have the authority to mandate masks for a human being.
SERFATY: Bundy is leading a movement called the people's rights movement. A confrontational group of Bundy supporters.
BUNDY: This network was built to communicate with people, we want to educate them or at least to gather to be educated and also to activate.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SERFATY (on camera): It is still very unclear how much traction each of these fringe candidates will get in their individual races, Don, but it is very clear that they're watching closely and learning what attracts attention and support from the pro=Trump crowd.
LEMON: Sunlen Serfaty, thank you so much. I appreciate that. Tomorrow the Senate will vote on creating a commission to look into the insurrection. And Republicans are probably going to kill it. But the mother of an officer who died isn't going to let them without hearing her first. Stay with us.
[22:55:00]
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LEMON (on camera): The former President, Barack Obama says he is hopeful for change in the criminal justice system one year after the murder of George Floyd. Speaking at an event for my Brother's Keeper Alliance, the former president compares what is happening now to past years and the Civil Rights movement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: You know, some people are calling this now the third reconstruction, the Civil Rights movement, the '60s, the second reconstruction. The same thing. Folks didn't just suddenly, Lyndon Johnson didn't suddenly one day say, we shall overcome and I'm going to sign a civil rights bill. Right? You had seen 10, 15 years of work.
So that as the movement got higher profile, there was also an entire infrastructure there, ready to translate that into change. That resulted in the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. And I'm seeing that work being Done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Well, here with me now, the mayor of Newark, New Jersey, Ras Baraka. Mayor, thank you. It's good to see you and to speak with you again.
So, you were part of that conversation with the former president today. He said he is hopeful for what's to come on racial justice in the criminal justice system. What about you?
MAYOR RAS BARAKA (D), NEWARK, NEW JERSEY: Well, yes. I mean, I Don't think you can be a leader and be in charge and not be hopeful and not be optimistic. I think we don't have the luxury of pessimism. So, we have to feel like things will change. Or why would we be in the positions that we're in? We have to do what we can to make sure that each day, we are putting a brick down to be able to build on something that we see.
LEMON: Yes. And the former president, Mayor, also speaking out about what he would have done differently as president. And that's pushing for change at the local level. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If you asked me, what are the things I wish I might have done better or more effectively. The thing that I constantly struggled with was how could I get the passion and concern that had been focused with Trayvon, Ferguson, and the subsequent events, how could I help people make the link between those events and political power and action, not just at the federal level but even more importantly, at the state and local levels, where the vast majority of criminal law and policing decisions are made.
How do we get a new district attorney in there? And when we do, how do we make sure they're held accountable? How do we start electing state legislatures that are rethinking what we're criminalizing and what we're not? How do we analyze budgets? And make very clear decisions about how money is spent.
[23:00:03]
And who exactly is negotiating with the police officers' union to determine --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
