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Don Lemon Tonight
President Biden Acknowledges Attack On Democracy; Mike Flynn Suggests Myanmar Coup Should Happen In The U.S.; Sidney Powell Says Trump Should Be Reinstated; Mitch McConnell Says A January Commission Is Unnecessary; Barack Obama Says Balance Of Everything Is Important; Reports Of Increased Violence After Pandemic Lockdowns Were Lifted; Trump's Rhetoric Stoke More Violence. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 01, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): I appreciate you watching. I hope you had a meaningful weekend with people who matter to you, remembering the right things about us and who we want to be. All right. That's all for me. Time for the big show now, "DON LEMON TONIGHT" with its star, Don Lemon.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I got to hang out with some people I liked over memorial weekend. I'm not going to say who, but --
CUOMO: You made a strong third place finish in the dance contest?
LEMON: Wait a minute, third?
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: What were you, like, fifth?
CUOMO: Please. I'm in a category on my own. Everybody knows that.
LEMON: And you're horrible at ping-pong.
CUOMO: I have a shirt that says I'm awesome at ping-pong.
LEMON: And you can't -- my gosh. By the way, I had people laughing at that shirt. I walked into Chris's house. He's wearing a shirt. What does it say? I'm good at ping-pong --
CUOMO: I'm awesome at ping-pong.
LEMON: And the sleeves are cut off. I'm like, Chris, why even wear a shirt?
CUOMO: It came with no sleeves.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Why don't you just write it on your chest?
CUOMO: It came with no sleeves. Why don't you tell me what you had on? LEMON: Well, we're in 20's which is kind what I'm wearing tonight. I went to a roaring '20s party and I got to tell you, and I posted it because it's time for people to get out and be with friends. Complete -- everybody is vaccinated. You have to show your card, all that thing, you know, the whole nine. But it's time for people to be with their loved ones again.
And as I have been saying, if you're going to believe in the science when they said, you know, wear a mask and the vaccine is good, then believe in the science. And so, the science tells me if I'm around other vaccinated people or if I'm vaccinated, it doesn't mean 100 percent I'm not going to get it, but I'm not going to get as sick. That means the vaccine is doing its job.
And so, get out, live your life soil. And so, I lived my life this weekend, which I hope millions of millions of Americans did as well. And it was a great -- besides the weather and hanging out with you, it was great.
CUOMO: I'll tell you what, there can be no great grain of any sky when you get to be around people you want to be with. And I'll tell you something, and it's OK because I'm sure it'll stay between us. When I came in tonight, some of my team was here because they're allowed to start --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I know. Was it weird?
CUOMO: It was weird for me because we've been living in the dark.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Yes, I look to my team and it was like crickets.
CUOMO: Don and I have just a handful of people who've been with us, and there are often no lights on in the building.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: But when I hugged my senior -- one of my seniors and another key member of my team who helps me out all the time figuring things out, true news man, I got a little emotional --
LEMON: You did?
CUOMO: -- when I was walking away from him because I haven't seen them.
LEMON: Wow.
CUOMO: And I missed them so much and my team is everything. You know, I mean, so it was amazing for me and it was amazing for us to be able to get out again and see people. Still a lot of masks.
LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: You know.
LEMON: Should I tell them the secret? Didn't you tell them you were flying them all to Vegas, first class, round-trip accommodations.
CUOMO: yes. And we'll see whether the vaccine hold up or not, you know what I mean. If we go there for 72, 96 hours then there is no cases, I think it's case closed.
LEMON: No. Seriously, though, it's great. Get out, everyone. The whole point, get vaccinated.
CUOMO: If you do it right you should enjoy your life.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: If you do it right and enjoy your right.
LEMON: But the caveat before that is, get vaccinated, do it right, and then get out and enjoy your life. I enjoyed your conversation too, though, with the wizard of odds. He's exactly right. The numbers show what the numbers show. This isn't -- this isn't opinion. This isn't even point of view. Like I always make a difference between opinion and point of view.
Opinion is just whatever someone thinks. Point of view is based in fact and it's what -- it's your experience, your perspective. And it's based in fact.
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: At least my point of view is.
CUOMO: Look --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: These are the facts. The numbers show they're trying to restrict --
CUOMO: Right.
LEMON: -- Black and Brown voters mainly and Democratic voters.
CUOMO: And this look. People have to remember Jim Crow, they said you throw around Jim Crow. The danger of Jim Crow was its subtlety.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: There were no laws that said Blacks can't -- there were poll taxes.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: They were race neutral, but just as pernicious, and that's the fear here. The big one is that the boogie man, I believe, is the voter I.D. They feel they always have high ground. I say 36 states have voter I.D. right now. See if they have differences in terms of the integrity of their outcomes. And tell me why --
LEMON: None. Zero.
CUOMO: -- three of the biggest complaining state right now have some of the strongest I.D. laws. Already they have the voter I.D. laws.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: So how can they have such questions about their election when they have voter I.D. And how can they see voter I.D. as the answer?
LEMON: It's fashionable now to lie to people's faces and people will believe you. Create your own reality.
CUOMO: Well, I know nothing of fashion, but I know a fact.
LEMON: Thank you, sir. I'll see you.
CUOMO: D. Lemon, I love you.
LEMON: You more. This is CNN Tonight. Well, it was. This is DON LEMON TONIGHT. I say it every time. This is DON LEMON TONIGHT.
I want to talk about the current president and really one of the reasons why he ran. Let's talk about that. He said that Charlottesville was a moment that he knew he had to run. Today, talking openly in Tulsa about the massacre of Black men, Black women, Black children and the destruction of a whole community and announcing steps to close the wealth gap between Black and White people in this country.
[22:05:01]
Imagine that. Where has that been? I shouldn't even just say for the last five years, but where has that been? So, he's facing fierce resistance from the Republican Party that is entrenched as part of the big lie, of really big lie. The party of coup talk. The party of white grievance.
The president vowing to fight back against the forces that would hide the truth, the forces that would deny one of the most sacred rights of our democracy, the right to vote, who would deny that right, especially to Black and Brown voters. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This sacred right is under assault with incredible intensity like I've never seen, even though I got started as a public defender and a civil rights lawyer. With an intensity and aggressiveness that we have not seen in a long, long time. It's simply un-American. It's not, however, sadly, unprecedented.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON (on camera): Well, the president going on to take a swipe at
members of his own party who, quote, "vote more with Republican friends."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I hear all the folks on TV saying why didn't Biden get this done? Well, because Biden only has a majority of effectively four votes in the House and a tie in the Senate with two members of the Senate who vote more with my Republican friends. But we're not giving up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Look, I know, I'm one of those people. I've said that before on this show. Why doesn't it just get done? Well, he knows, he has a strategy. Biden announcing today that he is putting Vice President Kamala Harris in charge of the effort to protect the vote, all that coming just one day after he warned American democracy is in peril.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Democracy itself is in peril, here at home and around the world. What we do now, what we do now, how we honor the memory of the fallen, will determine whether or not democracy will long endure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): You know, that is no exaggeration. I want you to think about it, OK? Think about where America is tonight. Republicans across the country doing the most un-Democratic thing that they could, trying to make it harder to exercise the right to vote.
Why would anybody do that? Fourteen states have already -- 14 states have already passed restrictive laws and dozens more bills are in the works. That is democracy in peril. OK? Then there's a former national security adviser Michael Flynn saying that not so quiet part out loud, openly claiming a coup, his exact words, should happen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I want to know why what happened in Myanmar can't happen here?
No reason. I mean, it should happen here, no reason. That's right.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Did he say minamar (ph)? OK. It sure sound like he said minamar (ph). Myanmar. OK. You heard him. As for what happened in Myanmar, a military coup where the general seized power, can't happen here, Michael Flynn said it should happen here. Message posted to a Parler account used by Flynn later denied that he said what we all heard him say. Which is what is happening now.
People shaping their own reality. And then there's a former Trump attorney, Sidney Powell, who is facing a $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit for promoting the big lie, and argued no reasonable person would believe her claims, which is probably the truest thing that she's ever said. Well, now she wants you to believe that Trump could well, he could just be reinstated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNEY POWELL, ATTORNEY: It should be that he can simply be reinstated, that a new inauguration date is set.
(APPLAUSE)
POWELL: And Biden is told to move out of the White House and -- and President Trump should be moved back in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Come on. I mean, how would any person, any reasonable person, even say that or think that? That's the problem. Is that those people say that and they do it with impunity, and then they get other people to believe it, and then what do you have? Just misinformation. People believing lies. They're in that whole bubble where that's all they see and that's all they hear.
[22:10:03]
Facts first, though. That is complete and utter bull sugary (Ph). It's complete garbage. There's absolutely no way Trump could just be reinstated. Doesn't work that way. Say it with me. Disgraced, twice- impeached, one-term former president seems to think that this is real. Doesn't say much, though.
"The New York Times'" Maggie Haberman tweeting that he has told a number of people that he expects he will be just get reinstated by August. That is not going to happen. Democracy in peril. There could be no greater threat to our democracy than a coup. And the fact is we've already seen an attempted coup. We saw it.
We all saw it when Trump-supporting insurrectionists ran riot at the United States Capitol on January 6th, beating police, hunting lawmakers in the hallways, and putting up a gallows outside the seat of our government. Attempted coup. We all saw it. We can never, never, never ever forget it.
But Republicans led by Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy are still trying to before bury the truth of what we all saw, what we saw, what we saw, and what they saw just days after voting to kill the January 6th commission.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Nobody is going to get away with anything who was involved in the incident at the capitol on January 6th. I think we'll know everything we need to know. We were all witnesses. We were right there when it happened. And I simply think the commission is not necessary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, OK. I guess it wasn't antifa or Black Lives Matter, like they originally said? I mean, it's so much misinformation and B.S. that they even forget what they said and they just move on to something else. That is the worst part of Mitch McConnell's cowardice. They were all there, they're still trying to bury the truth, still trying.
If anything, the fact that they were there makes it even worse and saying nobody is going to get away with anything, well, that's just a sick joke. They've already acquitted Trump already. They've killed the January 6th commission.
And then there is senator Ron Johnson who voted to block the commission's investigation. Now he says he's doing his own personal investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I'm doing my own personal investigation. I'd like to completely reconstruct what happened on January 6th so we have an accurate, historical record.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): I mean, are these people -- I mean, for real? You can't be buying this, right? Maybe you are, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, but look, I don't think Ron Johnson is the ideal choice to investigate what happened on January 6th because remember he said the Trump-supporting rioters who beat police within an inch of their lives truly respect law enforcement, remember he said that?
Look how much they're respecting law enforcement. Yes, there's a Trump flag and a blue lives matter flag and American flag, but they're beating police officers with and trying to storm the capitol. Remember when he said that they didn't scare him but he would have been concerned if they were antifa or Black Lives Matter?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: I knew those people were people that loved this country, that truly respect law enforcement, would never do anything to break a law. And so I wasn't concerned. Now, had the tables been turned, and Joe, this could mean trouble. Had the tables been turned and President Trump won the elections and those were tens of thousands of Black Lives Matter and antifa protesters, I might have been a little concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, by the way, conspiracy theorists who say that it is antifa and Black Lives Matter, Ron Johnson just admitted and told you that it's not, that he wasn't afraid of them because they weren't, so you can stop believing that one. Remember when Ron Johnson read a conspiracy theory-laced article into the record in the Senate claiming the insurrectionists were families with small children, elderly or overweight people and, here it is, fake Trump supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Many of the marchers were families with small children, many were elderly, overweight or just plain tired or frail, trait is not typically attributed to the riot prone. Some obviously didn't fit in. Plain clothes militants, agents provocateurs, fake Trump protesters, and then disciplined uniformed column of attackers. I think these are the people that probably planned this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:15:04]
LEMON (on camera): Everything but what it is. Trump supporters. Let's not forget it was one year ago today that then-president had peaceful -- this was today. One year ago. Peaceful protesters gassed so that he could have a photo op holding a bible. Yes.
That is democracy in peril. And as the current, legitimately elected President Joe Biden vows, as he vows to fight to get voting rights passed with the slimmest of margins, his former boss, the former President Barack Obama is talking tonight about the choices he had to make, to get his priorities passed and what it would have been like if he had said exactly what he was thinking about regarding race.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: As the first African-American president, there was a presumption, not incorrect, that there were times where I was biting my tongue. That's why the skit that Key & Peele did with the anger translator, Luther, was funny. Because people assumed, you know, you know Barack is thinking something other than what he's saying in certain circumstances.
I think a lot of times one of the ways I would measure it would be, is it more important for me to tell a basic, historical truth, let's say about racism in America right now? Or is it more important for me to get a bill passed that provides a lot of people with health care that didn't have it before?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Much, much more from that interview with the former President, Barack Obama, coming up.
Next, more on the future of our democracy. Let's hope it holds together as the current president speaks in Tulsa today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Hate is never defeated. It only hides. It hides.
UNKNOWN: Tell the truth.
BIDEN: And given a little bit of oxygen, just a little bit of oxygen by its leaders, it comes out of their -- from under the rock like it was happening again, as if it never went away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): President Biden condemning moves across the country to restrict voting rights, calling it an unprecedented assault on our democracy, announcing today that Vice President Kamala Harris will lead the administration's push to protect voting rights and acknowledging that it's going to be an uphill battle.
Let's discuss now. Matthew Dowd is here. Matthew is the former chief strategist for President George W. Bush.
I so love our conversation, sir. I'm so glad you're here. I hope you had a great a weekend. Thanks for joining. Good evening to you.
MATTHEW DOWD, FORMER CHIEF STRATEGIST FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I did. It was great. I celebrated my birthday on Saturday so it was awesome.
LEMON: Twenty-five again. That's all I'll say every time it's a birthday for me.
DOWD: Again and again and again.
LEMON: I celebrated the 25th anniversary of my 25th birthday recently, and you know, that was a tough one.
DOWD: You're better at this than I am.
LEMON: So, listen, let's talk about President Biden in Tulsa today. Put a lot of emphasis on voting rights. And we're now learning that he is tapping the Vice President Harris, Vice President Harris to lead the administration's efforts on that, on voting restrictions, on voting rights. Does this show that they're aware of the threat posed by all of these attacks on our democracy?
DOWD: You know, Don, when you and I talked a couple weeks ago, I mean, I think, and I said I think they're aware, but I thought they should have a step up as I said to you. I thought they ought to put in somebody at a cabinet-level position in charge of democracy.
I'm really glad to see they made the vice president, who I think is perfect for this with her background, in this, and who he is. So, I think that's a huge step forward. I think it's never been a question whether or not they believe it was a problem, it's would they dedicate the resources and the time, especially as a president or vice president at the time necessary to focus on this.
And as I said, this to me is the most important issue and it's probably the greatest threat we've had to our democracy since Lincoln was elected in 1861. So, bravo, bravo to both of them.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, we were -- we also talked about the Democrats' efforts and who is better at politics. I don't know if you remember that, but I had a friend over the weekend who is a former Republican, I think he is independent now. And he said, Don, can the Democrats just learn to throw a punch? Does that -- is he right about that? Is there any legitimacy to that statement?
DOWD: Well, you know, as you know, I've worked on both sides of the aisle for Democrats and then I worked for George Bush and Arnold Schwarzenegger. And here's what I learned. Republicans are really better at two things. They'll go to the mat and do just about anything to get what they want accomplished regardless.
And so, if that means throw a punch, they'll throw a punch. And as I tried to tell someone the other day, 2000 was a perfect example. You know, and Ron Klain, who's a friend, who was on the opposite side of us working for Gore, they kept trying to make an argument in the midst of the flurry thing and the bush folks were unrelenting. So that's one.
But I think more importantly, Republicans are much better at being disciplined and concentrating on a broad issue that they think affects especially their base but affects people's heart and soul. Democrats always try to make this a rational argument or something from their brain as opposed to the heart.
And I think this is an issue that Democrats can make from the heart obviously, but they need to stay disciplined, Don, not talk about 17 different things, but to talk about this one thing and how this one thing affects the 17 other things that they want to protect or preserve in this.
LEMON: Yes.
DOWD: And the other thing I think Democrats need to do in this, they need to recall the history and put the weight of history where we are today. You know, let's not forget how many people died to give us the right to vote. Through the civil rights movement, through the women's suffrage movement, through all of the minorities, including my ancestors who came as Irish, Germans, Italians, Jews, Chinese, Japanese.
[22:25:06]
People have died and been beaten in order to give us what we take for granted, which is the right to vote. And we only honor their legacy, Don, if we push back and do something about this. So, I think Democrats need to come at this in a much more strong way, two, stay disciplined on it, but three, not forget the legacy of who allowed us to be in this position to begin with, because we dishonor them if we don't confront it. LEMON: Right on. I want -- let's talk. Speaking of, let's listen to
the president and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I hear all the folks on TV saying why doesn't Biden get this done? Well, because Biden only has a majority, effectively four votes in the House and a tie in the Senate. With two members of the Senate who vote more with my Republican friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So speaking of, as you said, putting the weight of history, and what he says, you know, about the people who vote more than his Republican friends, shouldn't Democrats be putting the weight of history on those people who tend -- who as Democrats tend to vote -- and these are his words -- the way vote with their Republican friends? He didn't name them but presumably he was talking about Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema.
Is this a shot across the bow? And if so, should Democrats continue to do that and should they be stern? Or should they remind these people that -- of what's at stake here?
DOWD: Absolutely. I think one, it is a shot across the bow, two, they should be reminded in this. And I think, three, they should be told that you might want, you know -- Joe Manchin might want infrastructure in West Virginia or Krysten Sinema might want, you know, to preserve a woman's right to choose. All of those things are important.
But I would say if I were the Democrat going to him, I'd say you're not going to get any of that unless you protect voter rights. And you do everything to protect voter rights because if you don't voter rights, we lose all of this. So, I would start basically going strong at them and saying, you know, you want this? You're not going to get that. That's going to be secondary to what we want to do in this.
I also think the president, who I, again, I think gave a great speech today and is making moves in the direction that I had suggested, I think he also needs to get out of the habit of talking about this legislatively.
There are three powers the president has, one, to try to get legislation done, which I think the president enunciated how it's difficult in the circumstances they're in. But he has the power of the executive branch.
And the executive branch includes the Justice Department. And I think the Justice Department needs to be wielded in a state-by-state fashion to protect people's voter rights.
And three, he has the power of the bully pulpit, which is exceedingly powerful to not only move legislation but move the public into more action on this. And so, yes, he's done well on the legislative side and speaking about it, but I think he needs to bring, pull out all the stops on the executive side and then use the bully pulpit on a regular basis to talk about this and not go off into other issues. But to tell the American public what this means to them on a daily basis.
LEMON: Yes. It's almost 2022, and priorities are going to start to change very quickly. Matthew Dowd -- that's why we love having you here. You make us smarter, you make us think, and you speak the truth. Thank you, Matthew Dowd. I'll see you soon.
DOWD: Thanks, Don. I appreciate it.
LEMON: The former President Barack Obama speaking out, talking about being the first Black president and the backlash or white-lash that came after.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Those aspects of social progress that relate to identity, race, gender, all the stuff that is not just dollars and cents and transactional, that invariably will release some energy on the other side by folks who feel threatened by change.
(END VOICE CLIP)
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): The former President Barack Obama speaking out a lot more these days about race in America. In a new interview talking about the balancing act as the first Black president.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
OBAMA: A lot of times one of the ways I would measure it would be is it more important for me to tell a basic, historical truth, let's say about racism in America right now, or is it more important for me to get a bill passed that provides a lot of people with health care that didn't have it before?
I think there were times where the supporters of mine would get frustrated if I wasn't being as forthright about certain things as I might otherwise be. And then there are also institutional constraints that I think every president has to follow on some of these issues. And it was sort of on a case-by-case basis, where you try to make decisions.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, let's discuss with our senior political analyst Kirsten Powers, and political analyst April Ryan, White House correspondent and Washington bureau chief of The Grio, she's also the author of "At Mama's Knee."
Good evening to both of you. Thanks for joining. April, I'm going to begin with you. Because the former president in his new interview he talked about the tradeoffs he had to make did you go his presidency, whether it was more important to get real on race in America or to get policy done on things like health care and so on. Is the calculation the same or different now for the Biden
administration?
APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I believe the calculation is different. He is indeed a transformational president. I believe once this presidency is over, he will be viewed, if everything he's trying to do as it relates to race and equity goes through, he will be viewed as one of those pillars in America.
But when you come to then-President Obama, he had different circumstances. Race and politics will always follow him because of the unique nature of who he is and his presidency.
[22:35:03]
He was absolutely right. The tea party was formed, why? Because he became president. You had Mitch McConnell talking about he wanted him out. You had Rush Limbaugh saying he wanted him to fail. And you had so many Republicans who did not want to hear anything as it related to matters of race.
And Don, just in that clip you just played of then-President Barack Obama, I thought about the issue of ACA, the Affordable Care Act. What about Obamacare? Obamacare, much of that was formed and formulated because he wanted to make sure that certain segments of America had insurance, the least of these -- and many of those that he was looking for to have insurance were Black Americans.
They couldn't come out and say look, we want this for Black America to help them, to help bridge the health divide, to bridge the wealth gap. They knew that if they said that, there would be a hypersensitive movement against him.
LEMON: I understand that. But Kirsten, do you think that that -- how do I put this? Do you think that in -- that there's a lesson in this for Joe Biden? Because, you know, the former president is now out talking about what he should've done or why he did what he did, but is it a lesson for Joe Biden now to get it done while you're in office, to be bold, to call people out, to use the bully pulpit, to use the power of the office while you're in it rather than after you're gone talking about what you could have done better or why you didn't do everything that you wanted to do in the time that you were in office?
KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: So, I know you're expecting me to say yes to that.
LEMON: No. But --
POWERS: And agree with you probably.
LEMON: No, I'm not.
POWERS: But I, because I actually think that you can't, you can't really compare Barack Obama and Joe Biden because Barack Obama was the first African-American president. And so, he was --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I'm just saying a lesson in it, just a lesson in it for Joe Biden.
POWERS: Right. But even to take a lesson from it, I think -- I think it's very different. I think whenever you're the first person, it's very different. And so, I just want to be clear that I think that Barack Obama is right. His analysis of it actually is surprisingly pretty dead on. It's hard for people to be able to self-reflect and see things so clearly.
But to your point, I think we're in a different place. I think Joe Biden is a different person. I think that he could do different things, and I do think in this time, yes, that is actually what should be done. I think in Barack Obama's time in his situation, he did the right thing, if that makes sense.
LEMON: Absolutely it makes sense. And I know the constraints.
POWERS: Yes.
LEMON: And I think he's right on in his assessment. I'm just saying what is the lesson in the future
POWERS: Yes.
LEMON: I don't think the former president is wrong in his assessment and the constraints. I think April is right too. And there were different expectations for him by people. The rules were different for him --
POWERS: Right.
LEMON: -- as the first Black president. I'm sorry. Go on.
POWERS: I just think people are very, very hard on him. There are a lot of people on the left who are very, very hard on him and I think it's extremely unfair in the context. And so, we are --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And he talks about it in that statement.
POWERS: Yes.
LEMON: He said my own supporters would get frustrated with me. Yes.
POWERS: Yes. Which is -- which is fine. But in the time that we're in now, though, I think -- I think that he is poised just as April was saying to be extremely transformational and he's going to have to grab the bull by the horns.
And that's going to mean things, you know, like putting some real pressure on Joe Manchin, putting real pressure on Senator Sinema to say, like, look, if you can't support protecting voter rights, then you're not -- you're not a Democrat. LEMON: Yes.
POWERS: Like, that's not, like, this is just -- this is the -- this is bar that you have to beat.
LEMON: Well, beyond that, what do you -- is this what you want your legacy to be, the person who did not support voting rights in this country --
RYAN: Right.
LEMON: -- when so many people died and how people had to fight for their rights.
(CROSSTALK)
POWERS: And when our democracy is under attack.
LEMON: When democracy is under attack.
RYAN: But the question is --
LEMON: But they should do it. April, let me get this sound bite in, and then I'll let you answer that because I want to make sure we get the sound bite in. Really, it's the former president comparing himself to the current president. Kind of what Kirsten and I just talked about, but here it is. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
OBAMA: I mean, the interesting thing is people knew I was left on issues like race or gender equality, and LGBTQ issues, and so forth. But I think maybe the reason I was successful campaigning in downstate Illinois or Iowa, or places like that is they never felt as if I was condemning them for not having gotten to the politically correct answer quick enough.
Or that somehow, they were morally suspect, because they had grown up with and believed more traditional values. And I think Joe has that same capacity, partly because of his biography and where he comes from.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Go ahead, April.
[22:40:00]
RYAN: It's the art of persuasion. Joe Biden and Barack Obama have to persuade people. It's not just about legislation. It's about the bully pulpit. It's about court of public opinion. They have the art of persuasion on their side to help change minds and hearts when it comes to matters of race.
LEMON: Very succinct. Thank you very much. Thank you both. I enjoyed the conversation I appreciate it. So, everyone has been cooped up for over a year, and now that people
are getting out, things are, shall we say, getting heated. Like what is going on? You know, that's a man being taken off the NBA court by security. From basketball games to airplanes to a store near you. Why is everybody so angry? Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:44:56]
LEMON (on camera): Are you like me wondering what's going on with all of the -- you see the videos online of people punching flight attendants and screaming at people in stores and big box stores, I don't want to wear a mask. Everyone is so on edge. What is happening?
The nation is slowly reopening after a long COVID-19 lockdown. We're seeing more and more uncivilized behavior in public. We are seeing it at sporting events, and even on airplanes. What is going on out there? People, what is happening?
Dan Simon has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: My goodness, what is going on in the floor? And a diving tackle by the security.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The return of packed arenas and other venues is an image worth celebrating. But it appears some fans are forgetting how to act.
UNKNOWN: Look how far the guy had to run. You know there is a limited viewing.
UNKNOWN: They blew the whistle. My gosh.
SIMON: The latest edition of people behaving badly occurring last night in Washington during game four of the 76ers versus The Wizards with a fan rushing the floor.
UNKNOWN: You can tell those people have been in some kind of captivity for the past year and change, right? It's kind of wild to see the liberties that people are taking.
UNKNOWN: As you can see Russell Westbrook very upset.
SIMON: It follows a string of other ugly incidents during the NBA playoffs, popcorn dumped on The Wizards Russell Westbrook as he left the court with a sprained ankle in Philly. A New York Knicks fan spitting on the Atlanta Hawks' Trae Young, and a water bottle thrown at Nets star Kyrie Irving.
KYRIE IRVING, BASKETBALL PLAYER, BROOKLYN NETS: They're treating people like they're at a human zoo. You know, throwing stuff at people, saying things, you know there's a point where it gets to be too much. UNKNOWN: Hey, hey!
SIMON: The return of incivility may be most pronounced on airplanes. These images are from a Southwest flight on May 23rd when a flight attendant had two teeth knocked out by a disgruntled passenger. The FAA reporting it's received around 2,500 reports of unruly behavior by passengers since the beginning of the year.
Other disturbing acts last month include a customer at a fast food restaurant in San Jose spitting on employees after being told to wear a mask.
UNKNOWN: This isn't the first time she's done it. She did it to two other co-workers.
SIMON: And in Hawaii, a man is punched in the face at a panda express after reminding visitors to wear masks.
THOMAS PLANTE, PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR, SANTA CLARA UNIVERSITY: People have been in lockdown pandemic mode for over a year, and maybe some of them have forgotten how to behave in polite company.
SIMON: But Santa Clara psychology professor Thomas Plante says it's important to remember there's some good amid the bad acts. For instance, when a man believed to be homeless attacked a police officer in San Francisco on Friday, bystanders rushed to help.
UNKNOWN: Get off!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON (on camera): Fortunately, that officer is going to be OK, but there's some hard data out there that points to the level of stress some Americans are feeling. For instance, the American Psychological Association did a study and it found that 61 percent of adult Americans have had some undesired weight gain since the pandemic began. And this is hardly surprising. About 50 percent of parents are more stressed. Don?
LEMON: Dan Simon, thank you very much. Is any of that a reason, though, to be so angry? To beat people up? To yell at them? To spit on them? My next guest says the salt comes down to America having a sickness, and that sickness is hate. I cannot wait to talk to S.E. Cupp right after this break.
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): Unruly fans interrupting professional sports. A San Francisco police officer attacked and wrestled to the ground. Fights breaking out on airplanes. A flight attendant for Southwest getting two of teeth knocked out by a passenger. So much anger in America these days.
Our political commentator is here to discuss, S.E. Cupp. S.E., good to see you. Thank you.
Look, I -- this is something that is really bothering me. I talked about it a lot this weekend. Other people are talking about it. I understand that you say America has a sickness. The sickness is hate. What do you think is going on in the country right now, S.E.?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. You know, I also have been thinking about this and talking about this a lot. Over the past year, really, because unlike in other times of crisis, war, after 9/11, Americans really came together. During this pandemic we did not. Americans turned on one another. And turned things like mask wearing into political issues and culture wars. We saw it happening over and over and over again.
And I think I don't want to generalize and call everything the same, but at the root of it is hate. And we are sick. We are morally rotten with hatred. And we see it in racism, which is a discrete type of hate. We see that in the rise in extremism, the rise in anti-Semitism, anti-Asian hate. Those are all discrete things but really, hatred is at the root of all of that.
And really, a hatred just for our American neighbor, a hatred for each other based on our perceived politics and biases that's really tearing us apart and frankly banning fans from a game or kicking people off of the plane may solve the problem in the short-term but it's really not going to get to the root of the problem.
LEMON: But listen. You know, this is a first. Let's be honest, S.E. This is the first time I've ever heard in my lifetime, a president condoned violence against Americans by saying rough them up. And you know, knock them in the face.
CUPP: Right.
[22:54:56]
LEMON: I'll pay the legal fees. And just really saying all of these things. And I know that you say that Trump didn't invent it, but he certainly turned it up from a 10 to 15 --
CUPP: Yes.
LEMON: -- when it comes to anger in this country. Did he -- did he help to fan the flames in your estimation? I think he did but I don't know what you think.
CUPP: Yes, absolutely. And look, like I said, like you noted, he didn't invent division, right, and politics has always been predicated on us sort of us versus them conceit. But I think Trump uniquely stoked the tensions in America that were already there, the fissures that were already there. He intentionally pitted Americans against Americans. He won an election --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But S.E. -- S.E., we're speaking in -- CUPP: -- by scaring a lot of people.
LEMON: We are speaking in past tense. And I think it would be fair to speak in past tense in any other time and any other president, but you have a president now who is saying the election is a lie, that he is going to be reinstated in office, that people should fight like hell for their democracy, that the Democrats are liars, and people in big cities stole the election. It's not --
CUPP: Yes.
LEMON: Listen, this is Joe Biden. Joe Biden is the president right now. But you still have a former president who has a huge influence on his supporters in this country fomenting hate and division among Americans.
CUPP: Yes. Trump is not gone. His legacy is alive and well and what he did was give permission to people to be angry and turn that anger into violence into attacks and they listened. They are still listening. They still want to live in that anger and that division. That is not going to go away any time soon.
LEMON: S.E. Cupp, I love your perspective. Thank you for appearing. I'll see you next time.
CUPP: Thanks.
LEMON: President Biden slamming Republican attempts to restrict voting saying the right to vote is under assault like never before. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
