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Don Lemon Tonight
Trump's DOJ Seized Information Through Apple; Rep. Adam Schiff Wants Inspector General to Investigate Trump; No Records Found on Arrested Rioters; Ten Senate Lawmakers Agree on a Bipartisan Deal; Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) Was Interviewed How the Trump Administration Was Able to Get Gag Orders That Would Compel Apple to Seize Information from Certain People; Nothing New in Trump's Abuse of Power; People Spreading Misinformation About the Vaccine. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 10, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. That's it for me. Thank you for the opportunity. Don Lemon Tonight starts now with its big star, D. Lemon.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I watched your show talking about this whole Justice Department thing and what they are doing. Look, this is egregious. But it's only six months out from the former guy. This is -- I feel there is going to be more. I think there is more where this came from. We are in a very, very dangerous place right now.
CUOMO: Regardless of the scope and the breadth of it, the pity is people were not wrong to want to change agent. They were not wrong to want somebody from outside the game to come in and stop all the shenanigans and the inside plays and the toxicity and being disruptive.
LEMON: Are you talking about the 2020 election?
CUOMO: Yes, always. But what they need to understand is the reason this party, this story matters, is that they just picked the wrong change agent.
LEMON: Are you talking about Joe Biden?
CUOMO: No. When people voted for Trump --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I completely disagree with you. The change --
CUOMO: Let me make my point.
LEMON: No, but change just for the sake of change, Chris --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: No, it wasn't change for the sake of change. It was never change for sake of change.
LEMON: -- and Trump wasn't a change --
CUOMO: You've never understood this. It was never change for the sake of change.
LEMON: No. Trump is not -- no matter what you say you are never going to tell me that Trump was a change agent for good and people thought that by him coming in that he was going to be a great change agent that was going to --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: That's exactly what they thought.
LEMON: -- do -- well, they were absolutely wrong.
CUOMO: I know.
LEMON: How could you think he is going to be a great change agent when he grabs women by the pussy, he thought the former president was -- wasn't born in this country, when he had said and done -- how could anyone on earthy that Donald Trump was the perfect change agent for them? One would have to be delusional to think that.
CUOMO: OK.
LEMON: It wasn't a change agent.
CUOMO: OK. He was a change agent. You say perfect change agent. I never said perfect change agent.
LEMON: No, I didn't say perfect.
CUOMO: You just said --
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: -- how would they think he was a perfect change agent.
LEMON: How they think he's going to be this change agent. I was wrong when I said perfect. Go on.
CUOMO: Good, we are getting somewhere. When they looked at the field, they said all these guys are -- and women, are the same old insider elitists. This guy played the game, knows the game, big celebrity, has lots of money. So, they believed he couldn't be bought. And he seems to hate the same people I do. And he seems to hate the same things I do. And he is going to go in there and he's going to be disruptive, and I don't care what he says and I don't care what kind of guy he is because all these men and women stink. They're all low characters so he is no different than anybody else.
Then he gets from, and he is the worst example of everything they don't like about government.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: What this story shows is he is everything that he promised to change.
LEMON: I don't think anybody thought anything of what you just said.
CUOMO: OK.
LEMON: I think the people who wanted Donald Trump in said I'm afraid that my voice as the preeminent voice, I am afraid that it is not going to be the preeminent voice anymore. I think that he exploited the worst parts of people's personality, of their psyche and of their thinking.
CUOMO: Both are true.
LEMON: I don't it was a change -- this wasn't a change agent.
CUOMO: Both are true.
LEMON: The administration before, that was the hope and change administration. That's --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Both are true.
LEMON: No. No. You can't tell me that both are true.
CUOMO: I am telling you both are true.
LEMON: You can't say that a change agent is someone who comes in and what? Moves the culture forward. Someone who --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: That's what he wanted. There were Obama voters who voted --
LEMON: He wanted to move the --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: -- for Trump. He won suburban voters because there were people who hated the system as it was and wanted an insurgent. They just picked the wrong guy. There are also white people who are playing to white fright, and he appealed to that as well --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: None of that --
CUOMO: -- with a xenophobic and he is being a demagogue.
LEMON: Have you read the studies? Have you read --
CUOMO: Don, again -- LEMON: -- have you heard what people said why they wanted Donald Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: They absolutely say what I'm saying now.
LEMON: It had nothing to do with change agent. They didn't want -- they want to -- they didn't want to go back -- if you tell that they wanted things to go back to a time where there wasn't equity and equality in our society, where bigots rule the country, then I would yes.
CUOMO: Don, 74 million --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: -- people voted for this guy in the most recent election.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: It's not because they are all racists.
LEMON: No. This doesn't have to do with all being racist. You can be naive. You can be racist. You can have a bias.
CUOMO: You have fear of the far left.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You can be unconscious.
CUOMO: You can believe that the other guy is an inside animal who is going to play the same kinds of games.
[22:04:58]
LEMON: But none of the study show that there was a fear of the far left. That's all-political gobbledygook. All of that what you just said has nothing to do with reality. If you look at the studies and you listen to the people who Donie O'Sullivan interviews that Trump supporters --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Donie O'Sullivan. Hey, listen. I love Donie. He talks to conspiracists and cult followers.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: We didn't have 74 million -- look, here's what I'm saying.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: Not to get too far afield.
LEMON: All right.
CUOMO: This DOJ story is proof that Trump was everything he said he was against. The whole virtue to him for Trump people that they clung to was he's different than the others, he won't do the same kinds of bad things. He is not a politician so he says lots of stupid stuff, but he'll stop their games. He was the game.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He is the ugliest example of the game. I have never seen anybody get a DOJ to do what he did here.
LEMON: Well, we'll have to agree to disagree because I think this shows that Trump was everything that he said he was, that he was a bigot, that he was small minded, that he wasn't looking out for the interests of the country, that he had two people have to cheat to win. I think that this is all a culmination of exactly what he says he was. Exactly what he showed us.
So, while it is outrageous, and it is disgusting that he is digging into people's personal information that he is --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: And he's having the DOJ do it.
LEMON: That he's having the DOJ doing it.
CUOMO: It's one thing if he did it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: But he had them do it.
LEMON: But that's -- but he's -- that's exactly what he said he was going to do. Not that he was hiding and then all of a sudden, we find out that this magnanimous person and it's, my gosh. This wasn't what Donald Trump promised us. It's exactly what he promised us. To use the lever of government -- levers of government for what? His own interests. That's what he is doing. And that's --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: And that's absolutely what he did.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He did it from jump the whole time.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I'm saying why people originally voted for him. They still feel the same way.
LEMON: Yes. CUOMO: I mean, I talk to people all the time on the radio and in my life and, obviously, as an extension of this place and they say, I hate the way things are. I hate the culture. I hate the system. I want somebody to get there and change it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: It's not an uncommon call. They just picked the worst guy ever if that's what they wanted because he is an example of exactly the opposite. I've said what I have to say. I love you and I'll be watching.
LEMON: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. I'll see you this weekend.
This is Don Lemon Tonight.
On a big news night with stunning developments on multiple stories. So, let's start with our big breaking news that Chris and I were just talking about. And it is stunning.
Just how far the Trump administration was willing to go to hunt leaks using their power to put down perceived political enemies. It is disgusting. It is toxic. It is shocking, but not surprising.
CNN has confirmed the Trump DOJ took the extraordinary step of seizing records from Apple, targeting Democrats on the House intel committee, their aides and even their family members. One of them a minor child. Vial. Vile. Vile.
The New York Times reporting records from at least a dozen people, including Adam Schiff were seized as the DOJ hunted for the sources behind news media reports on contacts between Trump associates and Russia.
Congressman Schiff putting out a statement tonight saying President Trump repeatedly and fragrantly demanded that the Department of Justice carry out his political will and tried to use the department as a cudgel against his political opponents and members of the media. It is increasingly apparent that those demands did not fall on deaf ears. The politicization of the department and the attacks on the rule of law are among the most dangerous assaults on our democracy carried out by the former president.
Though we were informed by the department in May that this investigation is closed, I believe more answers are needed. Which is why I believe the inspector general should investigate this and other cases that suggest the weaponization of the law enforcement by a corrupt president.
Adam Schiff putting out that statement tonight and was just on Chris' show moments ago.
Let's remember what the then-president said in February 2020 accusing Adam Schiff of leaking information about Russia's election interference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And frankly, I think it's disgraceful, and I think it was leaks from the intelligence committee, House -- House version, and I think they leaked it. I think probably Schiff leaked it. But it's the people within that. And Schiff leaked it, in my opinion. And he shouldn't be leaking things like that. They have to stop the leaking from the intelligence committee. And if they don't stop it, I can't imagine that people are not going to go after them and find out what's happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. Every -- projection. Every time he said something about someone else, it was true about him. Still is.
[22:09:59]
So, in just the past few days we have learned this. We've learned about Donald Trump the DOJ seizing Apple's records of Adam Schiff and others. We learned the Trump administration waged a months-long secret court battle to get records from my colleagues, CNN's Barbara Starr.
We learned that Mark meadows sent five e-mails to the then-acting attorney general trying to pressure him to investigate ridiculous claims of election fraud. We heard new audio of Rudy Giuliani pressuring Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden.
This is all recent. This is all just within the last couple of days, weeks. It's shocking. We thought it was bad. But we didn't even know the half of it. We have a lot more ahead tonight on the story. We are going to dig in more.
And this story is coming as we are also getting some stunning revelations about the January 6th insurrection. When -- that's when those -- look at your screen -- violent Trump-supporting rioters stormed the United States Capitol trying to stop the certification of the vote. The FBI director Christopher Wray says virtually none of those rioters were on their radar before the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, U.S. FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: As far as individuals under investigation, now that we're close to 500 arrests into the matter, you may be surprised to learn that, in fact, almost none of the individuals charged and found to be involved with the attack on the capitol were, in fact, individuals who were previously --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Almost none of them. Again, that is shocking. And it raises some disturbing questions. The FBI has said the threat from domestic terrorism is metastasizing. Yet they had no idea any of these people would attack the capitol? How much are we underestimating the threat? I shouldn't say we. How much are they underestimating the threat? How much are we still underestimating it? Director Wray saying there will be a lot more charges to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRAY: We are treating it as an act of domestic terrorism and investigating it through our joint terrorism task force and we are, as you know, now in the midst of bringing any number of conspiracy charges which are particularly serious, but this is a very ongoing investigation and there is a lot more to come and I would expect to see more charges on some of them, maybe more serious charges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He is also saying that the bureau is investigating the most, listen to this, the bureau is investigating the most hate crime incidents in five years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRAY: Hate crimes are certainly a high priority for us. We, in fact, had a -- from fiscal year '19 to fiscal year '20, a 63 percent increase in FBI hate crimes investigations opened and this year fiscal year '21 we have had the highest number of hate crime investigators initiated in the past five years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We've got more to come on that story, too. That as what's happening right now tells you everything you need to know about the state of our politics. Everything you need to know about the limits of bipartisanship.
Ten senators, five Republicans, five Democrats, saying tonight that they have got a deal on infrastructure, one that would be fully paid for and not include tax increases. A source telling CNN includes -- it includes $578 billion in new spending and would cost a total of $1.2 trillion over eight years.
The White House sounded cautiously optimistic, by the way, saying the deal is worth exploring. A spokesman saying that they'll work with the bipartisan group but, quote, "questions need to be addressed." Meanwhile, selling it to the Senate is a whole another thing. They still need every single Democrat to vote for it and they still need at least 10 Republicans to vote with them. Which is far from a sure thing.
Remember what happened when Senate Republicans blocked the January 6th commission to investigate the insurrection? Fifty-four senators voted yes, but they fell short of the 60 votes they needed. You can win a vote and still lose.
A lot more to come on our breaking news tonight. Revelations that the Trump Justice Department subpoenaed Apple for data from the accounts of House intel committee Democrats, including Adam Schiff, along with staffers and their family members.
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Breaking news tonight, the Trump Justice Department seized records from Apple for data from the accounts of Democrats on the House intelligence committee as well as aides and family members as prosecutors investigated leaks.
So, let's discuss now. Congressman Eric Swalwell, he is a California Democrat who is a member of the committee. Representative, thank you for joining us tonight. This is really an astounding --
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Hi, Don.
LEMON: -- and unprecedented. You sit on the House intelligence committee. Records from at least a dozen people seized, including aides, family members, even a minor. Do you have reason to believe that they sought your records as one of 100, one of among 100 accounts? Have you been notified of that by Apple or anyone?
SWALWELL: I was notified, Don, by Apple that they did seize my records. It's wrong. This is what they do. They smear and they try to clear. We've seen this through the Justice Department by Donald Trump, whether it was the reason he was impeached for trying to go after Vice President Biden at the time, or just other efforts, you know, through the Mueller investigation.
And I support chairman Schiff's call for an inspector general report into not only this conduct, but other conduct that was corrupt by Donald Trump and those who worked for him.
[22:19:58]
LEMON: The reporting is that among the numbers obtained, obtained were family members and, as I said, even a minor. Do you know that to be true? And why would they be targeted?
SWALWELL: I do know that to be true. And I believe they were targeted punitively. Not for any reason in law, but because Donald Trump identified Chairman Schiff and members of the committee as an enemy of his and just like Vladimir Putin or Erdogan or Xi in China, he used the power of government corruptly to go after his perceived political opponents.
We can't allow that to happen again, Don. This is not a 500-year flood. As we speak, he is telling others that he will be reinstated in August and he has people who are willing to, you know, raise -- bring violence, collect arms and come to the capitol to try to make that true. So, it's a fragile time for our democracy.
LEMON: Yes, it certainly is. Do you know how long this went on and when it began? SWALWELL: It looks like it was, it originated it in 2017, the 2018
period. That alliance with the CNN New York Times, Washington Post stuff. But I don't know much more beyond that other than it's closed, the matter is closed. And of course it's closed because we did nothing but our jobs and we followed the rules that we were supposed to follow in our investigation that showed that Donald Trump and his team sought to have assistance from Russia plan to benefit from it, and constantly as president governed in way that put Russia's interests ahead of America's.
LEMON: Does it -- does it make sense to you that the Justice Department goes to a judge with a request to seize data on members of Congress and that a judge was willing to sign off on that, a coequal branch of government?
SWALWELL: It concerns me. And that's why I support the chairman's call for an inspector general report. Don, look, I am not above the law just like no one else is above the law. But to go after this many people, boy, that feels like a Donald Trump-driven investigation and I don't have a lot of faith in his ability to fairly interpret the law.
LEMON: So, we know that they went after reporters. And now we are learning about elected officials and -- elected officials, too, and that they put a gag order in place for Apple so those law enforcements wouldn't know it, that it was even happening. Why were they able to get these gag orders?
SWALWELL: Because they rightfully were afraid of the public perception that they were targeting their political enemies. Now, it is -- it's not law, Don. It's actually Supreme Court precedent that allows these gag orders. But they have to be renewed after one year and it looks like they were renewed a number of times and, thankfully, the Biden administration it looks like did not renew it.
Again, we don't know enough yet, but it is concerning that they continued to seek our records with no evidence that there was any wrongdoing other than we were calling the president out for his corruption.
LEMON: Adam Schiff, the chairman, was on with Chris and he is calling on the inspector general to investigate. What is -- what needs to come out of this? I mean, as you know, the DOJ has extraordinary authority. Are there any guardrails to keep this from happening? I can't believe that they were -- that as we said, as I said, a judge signed off on it and then they were able to get gag orders. I mean, are there any guardrails? What the hell is going on here?
SWALWELL: Yes, we need a cleanup crew for what Donald Trump did with his wrecking ball to our democracy. Adam Schiff also has the Protecting our Democracy Act which puts a lot of reforms in place. But there is so much more we have to do to give the Department of Justice independence from any president, Republican or Democratic presidents, own political preferences. And clearly, they were abused by Donald Trump. We can never go back to that. But we are dangerously close, if we do nothing.
LEMON: You think we are dangerously close or are we already there?
SWALWELL: Well, we certainly -- we had a president who abused his power, Don. Went after his political enemies. Sent a violent mob to try to kill his political enemies to overturn an election. So, yes, we're already there. Thankfully, we survived. I don't think we'll survive again.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Representative. I appreciate it.
SWALWELL: My pleasure.
LEMON: We have a lot more now on our breaking news. Representative Swalwell has confirmed to me that his records were seized by the Justice Department. You just heard him, the Trump DOJ seizing records on at least a dozen people, even a minor child in their hunt for leaks. Stay with us.
[22:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So here is our breaking news tonight. The revelation that the Trump DOJ subpoenaed Apple for data from accounts of Democrats on the House intel committee. Their aides, even family members, including a minor child. The records seized including from Adam Schiff and as we just learned now, he just told us, Eric Swalwell.
Let's discuss now with CNN's chief political analyst Gloria Borger is here. The perfect person to talk about this. Gloria, good evening. This is outrageous.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi. It is. Look, I think this may be and is the worst abuse of power we have seen from Donald Trump and that is really saying something. This is a president who was using the Justice Department as his own private investigators and who decided that he ought to investigate the people who were investigating him. How outrageous is that? It makes Nixon's enemies list and Watergate itself look like small beans. That's how outrageous this is.
LEMON: Listen, the former president we know that he always believed that the Justice Department, right, was his own, that he could use them --
[22:30:04]
BORGER: Sure.
LEMON: -- in any way that he wanted to for his own political purposes. And now, look what we are learning now. OK? We talked about that. This is the news tonight. But we learned that CNN and other news organizations, the pressure that Mark -- you know, that he sought the records for that, the pressure that Mark Meadows put on the DOJ to investigate election fraud, the situation with Ukraine and Rudy Giuliani. I mean, when put it all together, I mean, the amount, the enormity of the abuse is just astounding. BORGER: Well, I think he looked at the Justice Department like he
looked at the Trump organization. They worked for him. They didn't work for the American people. So, I think the question we have to ask here is, Jeff Sessions, according to The New York Times, started this. The folks in the Justice Department, four of whom remain, by the way, I believe, did the investigation. They thought it was going nowhere and then Attorney General Barr revived it, bringing someone into the Justice Department to further investigate it.
The question is, what did Barr see that nobody else could see? Why did he decide to do this? And the question is, what can anyone do about this? And so, I think everyone has to kind of ask these questions. Also, the fact that there were these long gag orders placed such as was placed on the attorney for CNN, David Vigilante, who had a year- long gag order. Was this an abusive gag order?
Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon tonight said we are going to -- we are going to take a look at this because this is ridiculous. And so, I think that there are so many questions that need to be asked and answered so that this cannot happen again.
The Justice Department cannot be a wholly-owned subsidiary of a president of the United States to be used for his political purposes and his political investigations. I mean, Congress' job is to oversee. If they were doing their job and he didn't like what they were doing, that's too bad.
LEMON: You know, I'm wondering, what type of investigations can come out of this, Gloria, consider -- considering the egregious nature of what has happened? And then there are things I'm sure we don't know about that are yet to come.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: I think that's -- right. And I think, you know, they are going to be peeling the layers of the onion here, and we are going to see what they get down to. Because I wouldn't be surprised if we continue to learn more and more. But I'm asking myself the same question that you are asking, which is how do you investigate this? And how can you try and put some guardrails on here?
You know, in the old days you didn't think you needed guardrails like this, but it's obvious that do you. So, what can Congress do? Well, they can have an inspector general investigation. The inspector general can take a look at this. That takes a long time and say, well, this is what went wrong. They can try and change the rules regarding gag orders, for example.
But can someone sue the Justice Department? I mean, these are public officials here. Maybe the secondary people could, the people who were staff. I mean, I'm not an attorney and I don't pretend to be one, so I'm not quite sure what any -- what the legal remedies would be.
But if you were, say, a second-level, third-level staffer and you discovered that your private text messages had been investigated and -- by the Justice Department, you'd hire a lawyer, I think, and you would try to figure out what you could do about that because I think you would feel violated by this. And you would want to know some answers. Congress ought to haul up Barr.
LEMON: What are the implications for Barr?
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: Maybe they'll have a subpoena fight.
LEMON: I know you said you are not an attorney.
BORGER: Well, I mean, I don't know. Well, I mean, he --
LEMON: Yes. Yes.
BORGER: Right. He has to answer -- he has to answer questions of why he revived what seemed to be a dormant investigation.
LEMON: Right.
BORGER: And maybe he had a reason for doing that. But he brought in somebody from the outside to deal with it. Why did he do to that? Did he do that because the president said, hey, I'd like -- I'd you to help me out here, you know? Barr was somebody at the end of his tenure who said, you know, there wasn't any fraud in the election. So, he didn't follow Trump on that route.
Why did he follow him on this route earlier on in his tenure? Did he feel the pressure? Did he see something?
LEMON: Yes.
BORGER: I mean, we -- you know, there are so many questions that need to be answered, and the inspector general, obviously, an inspector general is obviously going to have to answer it. But, you know, people's civil rights may have been violated. Again, I am not a lawyer, but this raises so many questions and just --
LEMON: Gloria --
BORGER: -- lets you get a real insight into Donald Trump and how he operates.
[22:35:05]
LEMON: Well that's what I want to ask you, because if there are -- listen, the lawmakers and the people who -- whose records they were looking for work for the people. And many times, lawmakers communicate with their constituents. So, it's not just about the lawmakers' records.
BORGER: Sure.
LEMON: If you texted or e-mailed your congressperson, your congressman or congresswoman, then your text messages may be a personal issue that you wanted to talk to your representative about, something that you needed fixed, fixing, and you know, you thought they had -- that you had their confidence or they had your confidence. Well, not anymore.
BORGER: Sure.
LEMON: So, the average person, the average citizen --
BORGER: Sure.
LEMON: -- should be really concerned about this. It's not just about lawmakers.
BORGER: Yes, or, yes, confidential conversations with constituents, with family members, with even members of the press. You know, Donald Trump, as you know, was obsessed with these leaks and he made no secret of it. You just played that tape. He told the public about it. He said -- he said Adam Schiff is the one leaking about this. I know this. Well, did he know this? What did he know and when did he know it is the question goes?
Or was it just his suspicion and he said to the Justice Department, his own private investigators, I want you to take a look at this? I want you to find this out for me. I want you to report back to me because these are my enemies.
You know, Nixon only made a list. He made a list. This is -- this is very different from Watergate. And worse.
LEMON: Yes.
BORGER: And worse. Because it is an abuse of power by the president of the United States. I think that is the only way all of us who are reading this in The New York Times can look at this and say, if all of this is accurate, why did the president of the United States think that he had the authority on a whim to say to the Justice Department, which works for the people, that I want you to investigate my enemies?
You know, I mean, did he start looking at people's tax returns? I mean, we have no idea what he was doing.
LEMON: Yes.
BORGER: Again, I think there are layers of the onion that we are going to continue to peel here, as we should, and find out just what was going on that we did not know about. Apple, of course, was under a gag order. And we need -- we need to continue for history, if nothing else, --
LEMON: Yes.
BORGER: -- to find out what these abuses were.
LEMON: Yes. For everything you just said and more is why we love having you. The perfect person to discuss this. Thank you, Gloria, I appreciate it.
BORGER: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you.
BORGER: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: He says the GOP is rage -- waging a war on democracy and now it is a daily fight to preserve it. Pennsylvania's lieutenant governor is fighting election misinformation in his state and he is here next.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, the White House is saying questions need to be addressed. OK. After a group of 10 senators reached a bipartisan deal on infrastructure, but with a possible agreement on the table, will it give new life to the push for bipartisanship on other parts of Biden's agenda, including voting rights?
My next guest says protecting the right to vote is above politics and that to believe the you were current GOP will act in good faith is naive.
So, joining me now is Pennsylvania's Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman. Thank you, Lieutenant Governor. Good to have you on. I appreciate it.
So, listen, I'd like to first get your reaction to what we're learning tonight about the abuses of power on the part of the Trump Justice Department. Are you familiar with the story about --
JOHN FETTERMAN, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, PENNSYLVANIA: Yes.
LEMON: -- requesting and seizing records? And Apple complying. Go on. What do you think?
FETTERMAN: I just think it's consistent with the behavior that you've seen from that administration during its time in power, and I can't say that I'm shocked or surprised. I mean, this is an administration that pushed the bounds of legalities and taste and normalized lying about basic election results. So, I mean, I can't really say that anything, quite frankly, along those lines would surprise me.
LEMON: Same thing I said, it was, it's horrific, it's abusive. I said it was shocking, but not surprising considering the actions of this administration, not just over the past four years, but the past five years, since he even before he made that trip down the escalator at Trump Tower.
FETTERMAN: Certainly. Well, I mean, if you're willing to debase the entire American Democratic system, I mean, it's, you know, pretty much anything is up for -- anything is game.
LEMON: What should happen, do you think, Lieutenant Governor, what do you think there should be -- should there be any consequences, investigations? Not only for the former president, but for the attorney general as well, and the Justice Department? FETTERMAN: Well, certainly I think it's something that would need to
be investigated. But I wouldn't look that the Republicans would express an equal amount of enthusiasm for investigating that and it would turn into a back-and-forth.
The bottom line is that these kinds of revelations are going to continue to emerge because it was an administration that held itself above the law and was willing to lie and manipulate and cajole and it might even sound like even break the law, from what it sounds like is emerging.
LEMON: Yes. I want to talk, Lieutenant Governor, about this great piece that you have on cnn.com. You say some Democrats like Manchin who are refusing to reform the filibuster are telling us that allegiance to a flawed Senate rule is more important to them than democracy itself. They are wrong. Why?
[22:45:03]
FETTERMAN: Yes. Well, I mean, look, I live fairly close to the west Virginia border. I'm familiar with the state, what it's like there, and of course Senator Manchin is a far better, far better option than a Republican from West Virginia. But at the end of the day, you know, you're in a situation to ratify these generational life-changing pieces of legislation, and, you know, you really need to come together as Democrats.
I mean, as -- and when you see -- what you have seen with the Trump administration was willing to do and even as it came out just recently this, tonight, I mean, we need to band together. I would gladly, you know, pay any political price back home if that were the case to bring these amazing pieces of legislation that we need, whether it's minimum wage, whether it's infrastructure, whether it's police reforms, voting protections. All of these things are so critical, and that will affect this country for generations.
LEMON: Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania, John Fetterman joins us now. Governor, I appreciate it. And if you have any interest -- any more interest in what he said, read the piece on cnn.com. Again, a quote from it says, "some Democrats like Manchin who were refusing to reform the filibuster are telling us that allegiance to a flawed Senate rule is more important to them than democracy itself. They are wrong." Thank you, Lieutenant Governor. I appreciate it.
FETTERMAN: Thank you for having me.
LEMON: The next vaccine misinformation at an Ohio health committee meeting you've got to see to believe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOANNA OVERHOLT, REGISTERED NURSE: Explain to me why the key sticks to me. It sticks to my neck, too. I got this. Yes, so if somebody can explain this, that would be great. Any questions?
(END VIDEO CLIP) [22:50:00]
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LEMON: OK. So, the pandemic may be nearing an end in the U.S. but misinformation about the vaccine is still spreading all across the U.S. like the wildly false claim that COVID vaccines make people magnetic. And I'm not making this up.
At an Ohio statehouse hearing just this week, one woman who happens to be a doctor testified to that very idea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERRI TENPENNY, DOCTOR OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE: I'm sure you've seen the pictures all over the internet of people who had these shots and now they're magnetized and put a key on their forehead, it sticks. They can put spoons and forks all over them and they can stick. Because now we think that there is a metal piece to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: But that's not all. A nurse who also spoke at the hearing tried and failed to prove that she is now magnetic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OVERHOLT: Yes. Vaccines do harm people. By the way, so I just found out something when I was on lunch and I wanted to show it to you. You were talking about Dr. Tenpenny's testimony about magnetic vaccine crystals. So, this is what I found. So, I have a key and a bobby pin here. Explain to me why the key sticks to me. It sticks to my neck, too. I got this. Yes, so if somebody can explain this, that would be great. Any questions?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Sorry. OK. It's really not funny. It is laughable but not funny. Well, maybe just a little funny. The CDC having to put out a fact check debunking the totally whack doodle claims.
So, joining me now is CNN medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, the director of the Cardiac Catherization Program at G.W. University Hospital. I mean, doctor, I mean, we are, what is going on in this country?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes. You know, my dad would have called that meshugana (Ph), which is Yiddish for whack. But I actually don't think it's that funny. Because, you know, Dr. Tenpenny, and she's actually -- she's actually a doctor. Dr. Tenpenny is talking to very receptive ears. There is a huge number of folks in this country that are very leery of vaccines and what she has also said at other times that in fact, you know, wrongly, that vaccines cause infertility in men and women. She's linked these things to globalists, which is obviously anti-Semitic kind of trope.
LEMON: Yes.
REINER: She's talked about depopulation, eugenics. So, she's a French character but she's talking to very receptive and she's talking to people in states that are lagging way behind other parts of this country in vaccinations.
So, you know, for instance, in parts of the south, you know, barely 40 percent of people are fully vaccinated, compared to a national average of 53 percent. You know, if you look at states that have more than 70 percent of adults with at least one shot, we have 13 states with that. You know, there are parts of the -- part of the south, you know, where that is barely 50 percent. So, we have a long way to go and she's talking to very, very receptive ears. It's not funny. It's dangerous.
[22:54:46]
LEMON: Listen. I mean, that woman, if you look at it. I know it's not funny but if you look at her, should we feel bad for the woman who has been co-opted? Or people who are being exploited by so-called experts who would have someone like that actually going into a committee hearing and trying to put keys on them to prove their point?
And I don't -- maybe I shouldn't be laughing at it, but I mean, I find it, it's ridiculous when you look at it. It is actually, it's is ridiculous.
REINER: It's ridiculous but it's disinformation propaganda. It's actually propaganda. And some of this is being, you know, spread by so-called legitimate, you know, news outlets. This kind of doubting that the safety of vaccines. Doubting the necessity of vaccines. Linking it to magnetizing people and 5G cell towers. It's very, very dangerous but a lot of people are hearing this.
LEMON: Yes. Doctor, thank you for clearing all of this up for us. I really appreciate it.
REINER: My pleasure.
LEMON: Thank you.
So, breaking tonight, just how far the Trump administration went to figure out who was leaking information, seizing records from Apple for Democrats including Adam Schiff. And we have learned tonight Eric Swalwell as well. Stay with us.
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