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Don Lemon Tonight

Vladimir Putin Weighs In On U.S. Capitol Riots; Speaker Pelosi Wants Trump's DOJ To Be Investigated; QAnon Supporter Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Apologizes; Mitch McConnell Hinting Not To Allow A Biden SCOTUS Appointee; Christiane Amanpour Reveals She Has Ovarian Cancer; DOJ Will Implement New Rules On Court Orders. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired June 14, 2021 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): All right. Thank you very much for giving us the opportunity, it is now time for the big show. "DON LEMON TONIGHT" with its star, D. Lemon.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: It is your right. Good to see people out. We saw some folks this weekend, many young people are partying.

CUOMO: They were, and we were jealous. We were jealous.

LEMON: You know what, it's good for them.

CUOMO: Sitting around, eating our Geritol, drinking --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That's how old you are. Most people --

CUOMO: -- our digestifs.

LEMON: Hey, do you have a probiotic that you can put in my Arnold Palmer, please?

CUOMO: Where is the brioche?

LEMON: Yes. But I've been watching this situation, and you know, we did a story here a couple weeks ago just all over the country. You know, people going to the supermarket, you know, the Costco, on the planes, but the plane, in particular, is a particular -- is just very scary. You had someone trying to open the door, they probably couldn't do it because of, you know, how it's, how it's formed, and you know --

CUOMO: I don't know if you could, or couldn't, but I know that people stepped up.

LEMON: Yes, because of physics. It would be virtually impossible for him to do it. I don't want anybody to try it.

CUOMO: Right. LEMON: You know? But what's happening on airplanes I think people have, they are dealing -- we're dealing with a lot of mental health issues, some of it, you know, stemming from the pandemic, and just people with undiagnosed issues. Maybe they couldn't get to therapy, or were afraid, or I have no idea. And also, just a lot of angry people who seeming to have lost their manners, and what it's like to be a human being. Just calm down, and mind their business and keep it pushing.

CUOMO: Well, a lot of it is people are being fomented also. In fact, would you like me to break a little news on your show here?

LEMON: Of course, go for it.

CUOMO: So, people are fighting on planes, they're fighting facts, they are fighting with their duties in Congress, so we had all of it on the show tonight. We had Congressman Chris Stewart from Utah. He, I believe was providing an artificial balanced anything I asked him on why he hadn't been louder about it.

We were talking about Marjorie Taylor Greene, the QAnon kook that they have in their ranks, and I said you put your arms around her, and he said, no, I didn't, I didn't vote for her. I said yes, but you had your own rules about who's in the conference. Did you vote to remove her from the conference? Listen to what he said, D. Lemon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: You put both arms around our Marjorie Taylor Greene, and you brought her into your conference. That's what you did.

REP. CHRIS STEWART (R-UT): No, I didn't. I didn't vote for her in her district. The people in her district --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Did you vote to have her removed from the committees?

STEWART: I actually did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So?

CUOMO: Can't find the vote, D. Lemon.

LEMON: You can't find it.

CUOMO: We've seen reporting that Utah's all four of Utah's members of Congress voted not to remove her. I called the office, I asked for an answer, still waiting, but I don't see any proof that Chris Stewart voted to remove her from the conference.

LEMON: We need to get Chris Stewart and we need a time out. Chris Stewart come back into chambers.

CUOMO: He was --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: For a conference.

CUOMO: He was critical of her in his statement, --

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: -- but he didn't vote to remove her.

LEMON: And so, and we're sure about that, we don't know?

CUOMO: I see no proof of the vote, again, I'll give him this. He was critical of what she said in a statement.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: But it is a little consistent with the game he was playing tonight which is, the insurrection? It's no worse, and in fact, not as bad as what happened with antifa. QAnon, I don't care about them anymore than I do antifa. And, if you want to look at this, you got to look at everything else. Everything is a balancing test. As if nothing can just be wrong anymore.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: It's only wrong for me if I can't say that you did something wrong as well.

LEMON: You have to point out to something else and you have to --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: It's just toxic, and it's all over.

LEMON: It's always the other guy. Both sides as they say. It's always, well this, listen, and that nothing you know how I feel about that. Because there are certain things that are happening right now, that is the fault of one party, and there are certain things that are happening right now that's the fault of both parties.

But certainly, if you are talking about insurrection, and if you are talking about just lying to the American people, and co-opting people, and exploiting their ignorance and their vulnerabilities, I think there is one party that is doing that right now. It needs to take a could long look at themselves.

I got to run, thank you for breaking the news, you saved it for my show.

CUOMO: I saved it for the big show.

LEMON: How gracious of you.

CUOMO: I know where I got to make my bones. LEMON: Yes, you got to save some money --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.

LEMON: -- so that you can pay for launch next time.

[22:05:00]

CUOMO: Well, you're not saying you paid for lunch, are you?

LEMON: We're not getting our other friend pay it either.

CUOMO: Please, he bought you like a used ice cream cone and then he said, next lunches on you. I got some cheap friends. D. Lemon, I love you.

LEMON: I love you, too. I'll see you later.

So, this is DON LEMON TONIGHT.

Let me tell you this. Usually, you know, when an American president goes overseas, it is to promote and reassure people about the fate of democracy abroad, right? Because America, democracy. Right. What you saw today was a president who needed to send a message that democracy can survive, and thrive back at home too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I pointed out we have to prove, to the world and to our own people that democracy can still prevail against the challenges of our time and delivered for the needs of our people.

We have to root out corruption that siphons off our strength, guard against those who would stoke hatred and division for political gain is phony populism. Invest in strengthening institutions that underpin and safeguard our cherished democratic values, as well as protecting the free press and independent judiciaries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Phony populism, a direct hit against the former president of the United States. The one who would literally shove aside other elected leaders. Look, there he is. When he went to summits. When he wasn't cozying up to dictators. The one who rode a wave of phony populism to office, and then called upon it to try to prevent the peaceful Democratic transition of power.

As the president of the United States, Joe Biden, prepares for his summit with Putin, he is giving the Russian leader a preview of how he is going to approach their talks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BIDEN: And the areas where we don't agree, making clear what the red lines are. I have met with him, he is bright, he is tough, and I have found that he is, as they say, when we used to play ball, a worthy adversary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): While the Kremlin has told the White House that how Russia deals with Putin's political opponents such as Alexei Navalny is an internal matter, and not up for discussion. But aide say that Biden is almost certain to bring it up. Putin, in an interview with NBC News last week hinting that he may bring up the January 6th insurrection, calling it a case of political persecution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): They came to Congress with political demands. Isn't that persecution for political opinions? Some have been accused of plotting to take over government power, but some are accused of robbery. But they didn't go there to rob.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): OK. Well, do you notice how that rhetoric sounds familiar? Really familiar to some of the excuses you've heard, those who have said the insurrectionists were patriots, or they were just tourists. They didn't have any weapons.

You probably want to think twice when your message aligns with the Russian strongman. One Republican senator, Ron Johnson was making excuses again this weekend, denying the insurrection happened. That there was no violence. I don't know, I mean, what videos has he been looking at?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): We've seen plenty of video of people in the capitol, and they weren't writing. It doesn't look like at arms insurrection when you have people breached the capitol, and I don't condone it, but they are staying within the rope lines, in the rotunda. That's not one an armed insurrection would look like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): I mean, -- do you have to wonder if one is sane to come to that sort of conclusion? And as far as the weapon thing I don't think he is right about that. And we may not ever know, because a lot of them just were allowed to just go back to wherever they lived, no arrest, no searching, no nothing.

And what are flags? And bear spray? And pepper spray? That's not weapons? Come on, people. The current President of the United States, Joe Biden, indicating that he talked about the insurrection with his counterparts at both the G7 and NATO meetings, and that they were shocked by the violence. Also saying to our allies, no Americans are good and decent people. We

have been asking on this broadcast whether President Biden truly understands the magnitude of the Republican opposition that he faces. He gave us an idea of an answer to that just today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I think it is a shock and surprise that what's happened in terms of the consequence of President Trump's phony populism has happened.

[22:10:04]

And it is disappointing that so many of my Republican colleagues in the Senate who I know no better, have been reluctant to take on, for example, an investigation because they're worried about being primaried.

That's why it is so important that I succeed in my agenda, the agenda whether it's dealing with the vaccine, the economy, and infrastructure, it's important that we demonstrate that we can make progress and continue to make progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Phony populism. President Biden sees what Republicans are doing, but so far, he is not changing his plan. He believes that he can save democracy with good government for the people. But is that would other sides have in mind? Remember, this was just last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: If you look to what the majority leader has in mind for June, it's pretty clear the era of bipartisanship is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Well that's rich since Mitch McConnell never allowed bipartisanship to begin with. And he is now sending a stark message to Biden that if the GOP regains control of the Senate in 2022, Biden can forget about getting a Supreme Court nominee confirmed, just like he blocked President Obama's pick of Merrick Garland from even getting a hearing on his nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: I think in the middle of a presidential election, if you have a Senate of the opposite party of the president, you have to go back to the 1880s to find the last time the vacancy was filled. I think it's highly unlikely.

HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HOST, SALEM RADIO NETWORK: If you are back as the Senate Republican leader, and I hope you are, and a Democrat requires at the end of 2023, in their 18 months, that would be the Anthony Kennedy precedent. Would they get a fair shot at a hearing? Not a radical, but a normal mainstream liberal.

MCCONNELL: Well, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): What do you think the chances are that Mitch McConnell is going to work on the Biden agenda except to oppose it? When he is saying things like that? And about the rule of law, one of the key pillars of democracy, how is that going?

We are learning tonight that Congressman Jerrold Nadler, the chairman of the House judiciary committee, saying his committee will open a full investigation of the Trump Justice Department issuing secret subpoenas for the records of members of Congress and journalists that Trump perceived as his enemies. The Senate judiciary committee will investigate as well. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi saying the Trump administration's behavior is worse than anything Richard Nixon ever did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), UNITED STATES SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: What the administration did, the Justice Department the leadership of the former president goes even beyond Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon had an enemy's list. This is about undermining the rule of law. And for these attorneys general, Barr and Sessions, at least to two to say that they didn't know anything about it is beyond belief. So, we will have to have them come under oath to testify about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Also, tonight, the FBI warning lawmakers that followers of the QAnon conspiracy theory may carry out more acts of violence in the aftermath of the January 6th capitol insurrection.

A threat assessment obtained by CNN suggesting that since many of the QAnon predictions have not materialized, followers may try to take action on their own against their political opponents. And a member of Congress who has pushed QAnon conspiracies in the past, Georgia Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene, all of a sudden, apologizing tonight on another issue for comparing COVID mask-wearing rules on Capitol Hill to the Holocaust. The apology coming after she visited the Holocaust museum in Washington earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): And I have made a mistake, and it's really bothered me for a couple of weeks now. And so, I definitely want to own it. The horrors of the Holocaust are something that some people don't even believe happened, and some people deny, but there is no comparison to the Holocaust. And there are words that I have said and remarks that I've made that I know are offensive, and for that, I want to apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON (on camera): OK, so we don't normally like to elevate conspiracy theories, but we played that apology because it's important to amplify the truth, right? Which is what she said was wrong. It was ignorant. Amplify the truth especially when we reported you -- to you on the lie. But the truth is anyone who is elected to represent the people of the United States should be educated about the Holocaust.

[22:14:58]

You are an elected official. You represent the people of the United States. You should be educated about the horrific tragedies that can result when hate and propaganda and violence come together to terrorize people.

And Congresswoman Greene did not apologize for comparing the Democratic Party to the Nazi party. Apparently, for her that is still fine to do. So, her apology, you should hear it but you can decide yourself whether she is sincere, whether she has learned anything, or whether something else is behind this.

The current President United States, Joe Biden slamming what he calls Trump's phony populism, saying the GOP is diminished, fractured. We're going to talk more about it, that's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The Republican Party is vastly diminished in numbers, the leadership of the Republican Party is fractured and the Trump wing of the party is the bulk of the party, but it makes up a significant minority of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): President Joe Biden talking of the importance of democracy to our global allies, while calling out Republicans here at home who have bought in what he calls phony into -- what he calls phony populism. The president saying that the way forward is to get through his agenda, even though the GOP has given no indication it will budge on many of these proposals.

Let's discuss now, CNN senior political commentator David Axelrod is here, as well as Matthew Dowd, the former chief strategist and president -- for President George H.W. Bush.

Gentlemen, good to see you. Thank you very much for joining this evening. I'm so happy that you're both here and I'm so glad I lost my glasses and they just magically showed up in the mail. So, you guys just reminded, now I can actually read. People are like, what is wrong with Don Lemon? I'm old, my eyes are not that good. So, I tried -- I tried contacts --

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Join the club, brother.

LEMON: -- that didn't work, so anyways, I digress.

David, I'm going to start with you. President Biden was on the world stage today, he's been on the world stage giving a real assessment of American democracy, you know, with our allies who were listening, calling out the GOP's phony populism. A lot of people have accused him of being naive about what he is up against. Does the sound to you that he knows what he's up against?

AXELROD: You know, I think he knows what he's up against, Don, but right now he's on the world stage and what he's up. You know, Donald Trump actually made his job so much easier on this trip because people -- here comes an American president who actually honors our alliances, who lifts up democracy, who wants to work collectively to try and deal with some of the world's problems, and to deal with the challenge of China and the challenge of Russia. And that's all to the good, but they'll have PTSD from their experience with Trump.

And part of it, and so they have confidence in Biden but they want to know that they have confidence in American democracy to sustain the commitments that he is making. And so, it's important for him to make the case that America is back. And that's what he's doing.

LEMON: Matthew, I've had you on and we have agreed on a lot of this. Whether, you know, the seriousness, the intensity is it there on the side of Democrats, including the president to fight against what is happening on the right. Biden is suggesting that the current phase that we're seeing from Republicans is passing. When you look at how far the GOP has fallen embracing lies on a scale that we have never seen, giving fealty to someone who tried to undermine democracy. Is it -- is it just a passing moment?

MATTHEW DOWD, FORMER CHIEF STRATEGIST FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: No, it's not a passing moment. I mean, we're -- I mean, was the Civil War passing moment? I mean, it lasted for years and our country went through a heck over it, you wouldn't call that a passing moment. I don't think this is. The Republican Party as you and I have talked before about is gone as what we knew before.

The one of our two legacy parties has become a party that is anti- Democratic and autocratic. And that's the party. And I, in my view, I understand world leaders questions about America in this moment, because I think they look at it and they think OK, Donald Trump is gone, why is this still taking place among the rest of the GOP?

And so they have concerns about whether or not we're going to last as a democracy and a leader in the world in this. I think Joe Biden, I think wanted. My guess is wanted to figure a way to work with the Republicans. But over the course of the last five months, I think he's seeing clearly -- more clearly and every day he sees their unwillingness to sort of go along with some basic principles of democracy, like voting, like justice, like law, like telling the truth.

And when you're unwilling to do all those things, you don't have a partner. When you don't have a partner you can trust, there is no way you can reach bipartisanship with a partner you can trust. And that's the place we're at right now.

LEMON: Yes. And look, David, he is still saying, he's saying, look, well, not he's saying. He's talking about the importance now of him succeeding with his agenda, getting his agenda -- his agenda passed. And that's how we'll come together as a nation blocking. Look, that's not just like talking about it. That's another way of saying easier said than done. But when Republicans are in lockstep blocking his policy goals, is that realistic?

AXELROD: Look, first of all let me say a few things. I don't -- I think what he's saying, Don, is that we need to prove that democracies can deliver. That a Democratic government, not an autocratic government but a Democratic government can deliver on big things, can solve problems, can move countries forward because the Chinese are all around the world saying that the Democratic experiment is over. So, that was his -- that was his point.

But you know, I hear you guys, we always l come to the same place which is, you know, you're talking about whether bipartisanship can work. And the real question is, will partisanship work? Because he needs 50 votes to get things done, and that's the -- that's the obstacle that he faces.

[22:25:05]

Obviously, you know, he faces tremendous obstacles that Republicans are putting in his place and so everybody is frustrated and says, go it alone. Just do it Democrats only. But you got to get to 50, he doesn't have that 50 -- he doesn't have those 50 votes right now.

And I think part of the way he gets those 50 votes is exhausting, at least in these next few weeks. Exhausting on this infrastructure issue, exhausting the possibility so that he can go back to a Manchin and Sinema and say, we did it your way, we tried it, I hang in there, I stood, I sat at the table and it just didn't go anywhere. And now we either move the country forward or we don't.

And I think that's what he's been working toward. I think he would take a deal if he gets one, if he can't get one to use it as a cudgel to get his Democrats on line so that he has 50 votes in the United States Senate.

LEMON: Look, we're talking about free and fair elections. We're talking about, you know, minority rule possibly of people trying to -- people who are undermining -- undermining -- people are being -- getting out to vote.

AXELROD: Yes.

LEMON: That the -- of allowing people to vote. You, Matthew, you are at a rally in Texas with Beto O'Rourke today talking about voting and how Republicans are making it harder to do that. If we don't protect voting rights, does anything else matter? Does any of this matter? DOWD: Well, you know, this was in a small-town Brenham which where the

ice cream, the Blue Bell ice-cream is. There is almost 400 people there who all came out of all colors, creeds, races, of everything you could see of people concerned about this in this moment.

And one of the things that Beto actually asked me to talk, and I talked for a few minutes. And one of the things I said at that was we can have a conversation about guns, and we can have a conversation about infrastructure, and we can have a conversation about women's health choices, we can have a conversation about the tax code, we have a conversation but a lot of things.

You can't have a conversation if you don't have a democracy. So, to me, the fight for democracy is the table stakes. After that, everything else, yes, it matters, and yes, those things are of great concern. But if we lose our democracy in this moment, it's a huge, huge, huge loss for the world. I think the present understands that.

But one other thing I'll say about democracy. Democracy is the only way that people, individual people can hold their leaders accountable. The vote is their only way. They can call and they can write but really fundamentally, the only way leaders of this country are held accountable is through the vote.

And the biggest concern I have in all of these bills getting passed, yes, the restrictions and voter rights are awful.

AXELROD: Right.

DOWD: Is the potential for nullifications of elections.

AXELROD: Absolutely.

DOWD: That's the biggest concerns I have.

AXELROD: Yes.

DOWD: The invitations of partisan to the process and nullification of elections.

LEMON: David, you want to weigh in, quickly, please.

AXELROD: No. I just completely agree, and Matthew and I have talked about this off line. The most insidious things about all these losses they're handing to legislatures and politicians, the right to overrule results. It's the thing that Donald Trump wanted and couldn't get in 2020, that saved us from that election being overturned.

And I really do you think people need to focus on the most important thing. Obviously, the abridgements or things that limit voting is egregious. But you know what, I have a lot of confidence in the American people to fight back on that. If you hand to a bunch of politicians the right to say you know what, we're not going to accept those votes, we're going to only accept votes that please us.

Then your -- then as Matthew says, your democracy is done. LEMON: Yes.

AXELROD: And so, we really need to focus on that.

LEMON: Listen, I have a lot of faith in the American people as well. But when if you have rules that call -- codified -- excuse me -- and it becomes law, what can the people do? It's a law then. And they will say --

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: They'll come out and listen --

DOWD: Well then --

AXELROD: -- you can pass voter -- you can pass voter I.D. laws and people -- and then you organize and you make sure that people have voter I.D.s. It's harder, it's more laborious.

You can cut back hours, and you make sure that as, you know, to get your people out during those hours, for some it'll be an egregious -- an egregious burden. But you can do those things, but it doesn't matter if people get to the polls and vote, if a bunch of politicians have the right to say we're going to disallow those votes.

LEMON: Well that's all I'm saying.

AXELROD: And that's what we're looking at.

LEMON: Yes. Because then it's law. They can do that. Go ahead, go ahead, Matthew.

DOWD: Well, Don, I think -- I think David is right on this. In the end, to me, the 2022 election is going to be more important than what happened in 2020. Which I think was incredibly important. The 2022 election it's an incumbent upon every single voter out there even with impediments, even with a process, even with restrictions.

[22:30:01]

How do we honor the legacy of all of the people that went before us that died, bleed, walked, or beaten to vote? How do we honor their legacy? We honor their legacy by turning out and voting and putting people into office that are going to protect the democracy.

LEMON: Yes.

DOWD: Because in the end that's where the power relies. And so, we can have these bottles over the legislative stuff in this now which we should, but in the end it's going to have to the voters to overcome those impediments that may exist, and honor the legacy of everybody else that bled before us.

LEMON: Always a fascinating conversation with the two of you gentlemen. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

AXELROD: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: So, while the presidents overseas defending American democracy, the Senate GOP leader is at home rewriting the rules. Mitch McConnell's new Supreme Court threat, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:34:56]

LEMON (on camera): The Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell saying it's highly unlikely he will let President Biden confirm Supreme Court vacancy in 2024. If the GOP wins back the Senate in 2022 McConnell would not commit to what he would do if there was an opening at the end of 2023.

So, joining me now is former U.S. Senator Doug Jones, a Democrat and CNN political commentator Scott Jennings, a Republican. Scott? I'm just messing.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, sir.

LEMON: I'm just messing with you.

JENNINGS: You know it, brother.

LEMON: Good evening to both of you.

Doug, I'm going to start with you. McConnell is writing the rules as he goes along. He blocked Obama's nominee when they were about eight months before the election, but said that it was fine for Trump to appoint Amy Coney Barrett just a month before the 2016 election. Is it, do you think it's a blatant power grab?

DOUG JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's not a power grab, it is just Mitch McConnell being Mitch McConnell. He has rewritten the rules to suit what he believes is in the best interest of his party and his power base. So, it's going to change, it may change again depending on circumstances. So, I don't think anybody should be surprised, Don, about what Mitch McConnell said today. In fact, I think people would've predicted that, it is vintage Mitch McConnell.

And the one thing that I do think though, I really believe, you know, in 2020, I think judicial selections and judges motivated Democrats than they had motivation in the past, I don't think that's ever been a true motivating factor for Democrats. It was in 2020 so there may have just lit a fire on the Democrats.

LEMON: So, Scott, McConnell wouldn't even commit when asked about a Supreme Court opening at the end of 2023. Isn't it completely undermining Democratic norms When he is refusing to follow through on constitutional duties?

JENNINGS: Well, I don't think it makes any political sense for him to give anything to Joe Biden on a hypothetical question regarding the Senate in 2023 when we don't even know who is going to be in control, we've got a lot of runway between now and then. Regarding 2024, he is simply following the same rules that he laid out in 2016. If the parties are split between the White House and the Senate, there is no confirmation. If the party is the same like it was in 2020, then there could be confirmation.

That's been his view, the present going back to the late 1800s, and in 2024 if he's in charge and Biden is in the White House, I expect hey would do exactly what he did in 2016 and say we have divided government, we'll have an election, and see what happens.

So, I think he is actually being really consistent here, regarding whether this motivates voters, I think it motivated voters in '16. Interesting to hear Senator Jones say he thought it motivated Democrats in '20. That's not traditionally been a motivating issue for them. But I admit that it could be now that we see how just important the courts are, you know, in so much of our daily lives.

So, the political implications are vast, but I think McConnell is actually being pretty consistent on this.

LEMON: You think he's being consistent, Doug?

JONES: Yes, I said right up, he's being Mitch McConnell. No, you know, Don, if some -- if you had asked me a hypothetical question a week ago, and said well, Doug, suppose Mitch McConnell is asked this question about the Supreme Court, what do you think you will say? I could've written that script and just about everybody in America has followed this.

And so, and he's right, he is being Mitch McConnell. He is being consistent. Not rewriting everything but he will rewrite it if necessary down the road depending on the circumstances. I think he has shown that in the past. And he will continue to do that.

LEMON: Doug, 82-year-old Justice Stephen Breyer really getting some pressure to retire from a growing number of Democrats so that Biden can fill his spot with a younger liberal justice. I want you -- this is what Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told our Dana Bash. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, just to be clear, you do think that Justice Stephen Breyer should retire at the end of this term?

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): You know, it's something I think about but I would probably lean towards yes. But yes, you're asking -- you're asking me this question so I would just -- I would give more thought to it, but I'm inclined to say yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What do you think? Should Justice Breyer step down? Do you remember what happened with President Obama and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, she ended up and that's why President Trump ended up getting another seat. What do you think, should he retire?

JONES: Well, I think he's got to think about this and there's no question that I think McConnell's statements today is going to put a little bit more pressure. But you, know, Justice Breyer was Ted Kennedy's chief council when I work on the Senate judiciary committee 40 something years ago.

He's been an amazing Supreme Court justice. He is -- he understands both the judicial, as well as the political dynamics, and he is going to do I believe what he feels like he is in the best interest of the country. And I'm going to go that judgment of his, I've trusted it ever since I saw him as chief counsel for Ted Kennedy, as a Supreme Court justice, and I think he'll do what he believes is in the best interest the country.

[22:40:01]

LEMON: All right, thank you, gentlemen. That's all we have time for this evening. I'll see you soon. I appreciate it.

New tonight, we are learning that Trump Justice Department went after the records of Trump's own White House lawyer. What's going to come out next?

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LEMON (on camera): The attorney general, Merrick Garland says that the Justice Department will strengthen rules about seeking congressional records following the news that the previous administration seized the records of journalists, members of Congress and their families.

CNN also confirming that former Trump White House counsel Don McGahn and his wife's Apple records were sought by the Justice Department in 2018 while McGahn was still the top lawyer representing the presidency.

So, joining me now is CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey, good evening. Good to see you. Thanks for joining us.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Don.

[22:45:00]

LEMON: So make this make sense for me, why would the Trump DOJ -- DOJ investigate and seek the records of the Trump White House lawyer?

TOOBIN: Well, let's just talk about what's unusual and what's not unusual about this. You know, there have been leak investigations for many years under many different presidents, under President Obama which was a very controversial actually. He obtained or his Justice Department obtained the records of 20 phone numbers from the Associated Press, as a leak investigation. A Fox News reporter named James Rosen, his records.

So, looking at journalists, it's controversial but it wasn't invented by Donald Trump. What makes this so unusual, is that if you look at the people who were targeted, the journalists, including our colleague Barbara Starr, the members of Congress, Eric Swalwell, Adam Schiff and even Don McGahn. What they all have in common, is they created political problems for President Trump.

It's not it appears, any sort of national security issue. Don McGahn, you know, had all the clearances, but he was someone who had -- who was associated with news stories in connection with the Mueller investigation that were very damaging for the president. So you could see how he would go after McGahn for possibly leaking to the New York Times.

But that's not with these investigations are supposed to be about. They're supposed to be about national security, not partisan advantage. And that's wet these appear to have in common.

LEMON: All right, I'm with you. So, let's talk about it. I mean, you mentioned Don McGahn the subpoenas, Jeff, I mean, they are adding up. The list of subpoenas heading up, Don McGahn, Democratic Congressman Schiff as you said, Swalwell, staffers on the Hill, news outlets including CNN. I mean, it isn't -- it is an unprecedented abuse of power, no?

TOOBIN: Well, and it's just so bizarre, and it's indicative of the incredible dysfunction in the Trump administration. Because Don McGahn was the White House counsel, at the time he is being investigated secretly by the Justice Department. The White House counsel has access to absolutely all the secrets in the United States government. How could he be somehow a target of the Justice Department, while continuing to function as the White House counsel.

It suggests that the president was upset about certain stories in the New York Times. Because McGahn was featured in several stories, particularly those stories people may remember where it was first reported as later confirmed that McGahn was told by the president to fire Robert Mueller and McGahn refused.

LEMON: Yes.

TOOBIN: That may well have been the reason why he was targeted by the Trump administration, but that is not a legitimate -- that's not a national security issue, that's a political problem for the president. And if that's how these Justice Department investigations are being used, that's a terrible abuse of power.

LEMON: All right. But let's -- you've heard the denials, what do you think the chances are, Jeff, that this could be going on the attorney general -- or attorneys general -- excuse me -- would not have been informed about it?

TOOBIN: It's just inconceivable to me, because, you know, the way the Justice Department worked, you know, I worked at a much lower level in the Justice Department, but I've covered the Justice Department I've been part of it. You know, when there are high-profile investigations of journalists, of members of Congress, remember those also raise important separation of powers issue about whether the executive branch is even allowed to investigate the legislative branch. And certainly, the White House counsel, those sorts of issues are

aired at the absolute top of the Justice Department. And the idea that Jeff Sessions, the original attorney general, Bill Barr, later the attorney general, Rod Rosenstein who was deputy attorney general for most of the time. All of them claim that they never heard about this?

I mean, you can see why Congress wants to get them under oath and get their denials. But it just seems to challenge, you know, strain credulity that no one could've known about these incredibly high- profile investigations.

LEMON: You are our resident expert on SCOTUS, you've written a book on it called "The Nine." So give me your take on Mitch McConnell saying that he probably wouldn't move to confirm a Biden justice is they take back the Senate in the midterms. I guess we shouldn't be surprised, but what's your take on this?

TOOBIN: Well, it is incredible power play that is not at all surprising but that doesn't make it any more of an abuse of the constitutional prerogatives of a president to nominate and expect a vote on his nominees for the Supreme Court. But you know, this is an area where the Republicans have been much more disciplined and carrying more.

[22:50:00]

You know, you are talking with us early in the segment, you know, the Democrats had never really got outraged publicly or in a sustained way about what McConnell was doing. If you go back to the 2016 political conventions, this is why Mitch McConnell had stopped Merrick Garland's nomination cold. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, their vice- presidential nominees none of them mentioned that abuse of power at the Democratic convention. Because it just wasn't that big an issue for Democrats.

Maybe now, after seeing how significant it is that Donald Trump got three appointments to the Supreme Court, including one stolen from Barack Obama, maybe Democrats are finally opening their eyes to how important these issues are. But historically, Republicans have been much more focused on this than Democrats.

LEMON: We shall see. Jeffrey Toobin, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

TOOBIN: All right.

LEMON: Thank you. Next, important words in an announcement from my colleague Christiane Amanpour. She's got a message that everyone should hear.

[22:55:00]

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LEMON (on camera): Take this. CNN's chief international anchor Christian Amanpour sharing with viewers today that she has been diagnosed with ovarian cancer. And she had a really important reason behind sharing her diagnosis. Watch this.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: Like millions of women around the world, I have been diagnosed with ovarian cancer. I've had successful major surgery to remove it, and I'm now undergoing several months of chemotherapy for the best possible long-term prognosis.

I'm fortunate to have health insurance to work and incredible doctors who are treating me in a country underpinned by the brilliant NHS. I'm telling you all this of course in the interest of transparency but in truth, mostly as a shout out to early diagnosis, to urge women to get all the regular screenings and scans you can, to listen to your bodies and of course to ensure that you're legitimate medical concerns are not dismissed or diminished.

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LEMON (on camera): Well, Christine is right. It is so important for all of us to check in with our doctors and see what diseases we should be screened for. Doing just that may save your life. Christiane, it is so great to see you back on the air here, the whole team at Don Lemon Tonight along with your colleagues and your friends around the world, we are all rooting for you.

And up next, President Joe Biden on the world stage talking about the state of American democracy. Stay with us.

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