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Don Lemon Tonight

President Biden Returns To U.S., Agenda Hits Republican Roadblocks; Number Three Senate Republican John Barrasso Vows To Make Joe Biden A One-Half-Term President; President Vladimir Putin Denies Cyberattacks; Biden Defends Democracy On Overseas Trip; House Passes Bill Making Juneteenth A National Holiday; Fox Propaganda Host Tucker Carlson Promotes Insane Conspiracy That FBI Planned January 6th Capitol Attack; Candidates Throw Punches At Final Debate Before New York City Mayoral Primary. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired June 16, 2021 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): President Biden returning to Washington after his high stakes trip overseas. He is feeling confident about his meeting with Vladimir Putin, saying he did what he went to do.

But back home, he's dealing with a stalled agenda and Republicans focus on obstruction. Plus, Congress passing a bill to make Juneteenth a national holiday commemorating the end of slavery in the U.S.

And Tucker Carlson pushing a deranged conspiracy theory that the FBI was behind the Capitol insurrection. Really. I want to start now with CNN senior political analyst, John Avlon and global affairs analyst, Susan Glasser. John Harwood. Excuse me. Did I call you John Avlon? I guess I did. Sorry.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (on camera): You did.

LEMON: I'm like the president today, I apologize. I'm really sorry.

(LAUGHTER)

HARWOOD: Accepted.

Especially John Avlon, of all people. Geez. So John, just moments ago, the president arriving back in Washington after his week-long trip to Europe and face to face meeting with Vladimir Putin. He seems confident about what he accomplished overseas. He says, that you know, a lot of challenges. But the proof will be in the pudding if, you know, in time to see if anything was accomplished. So, he has got a lot of challenges. What is he up against?

HARWOOD: Well, look, he has reason to feel confident about the results of the trip. It was overall, a success. He rallied allied democracies at NATO and the G-7 and the E.U. to try to say, we need to show that we can lead, solve big problems, stand up to autocracies and show that we're the way to lead to world in the 21st century not autocracies.

Then he went to Geneva, confront an autocrat, stood up on an autocrat, reset the terms of relationship after the bizarreness of the last four years under Trump, but also tried to lay a foundation for potential progress.

As you indicated in the toss, all of the results of that are ahead of us. We do not know whether it's going to yield fruit, whether it's going to result in different Russian behavior. Nevertheless, it was a positive start.

But to show that democracy works at home, which it's the test that he has laid for himself, he's got to get his agenda through and that's not going to be easy. There are some notes of positivity on infrastructure. Potential bipartisan deal that would be in tandem with a Democrats only deal. A larger deal on infrastructure. But very difficult to get 10 Republicans to vote for it. We'll see if they can do that.

Big challenges on voting rights. There are ways in which Democrats want to protect voting rights against what's happening in the states. They need Republican votes unless they squash the filibuster. Joe Manchin doesn't want to do. There is some hope there. Joe Manchin laid out a way to narrow the we the people act to try to see if you can get that through. We will see.

[23:05:08]

But all of those things are extremely difficult to accomplish. Not to mention the difficulty of Democrats holding power in the 2020 mid-term election. So on all fronts, legislatively, in the Congress, and electorally with the voters next year, he has got a lot of work to do to show that his version of democracy can thrive.

LEMON: It's not even my job and I'm exhausted, just listening to it.

(LAUGHTER)

Susan, hello! It's good to see you. It's been too long. You have to come back more often.

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORKER (on camera): Hi, Don.

LEMON: Hi. So, Republicans are determined to block Biden's agenda at all costs. I mean, you've just heard John talking about it. And you know. So the number three Senate Republican, John Barrasso, he is saying, this is what he said in the event, this was hosted by the (inaudible) Society. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): Mitch McConnell has come under a lot of criticism for saying he wanted -- at one point he said he wanted to make sure Barack Obama was a one-term president. I want to make Mr. Joe Biden a one half term president. And I want to do that by making sure they no longer have House, Senate, White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Biden was successful in bringing foreign leaders together this week. But this kind of obstruction from the GOP, can he work that strategy back home?

GLASSER: Well, I noticed that when he was getting on the plane to go back on Air Force One, leaving Geneva today, he was asked about, you know, what comes back when he gets back to Washington? He was asked about Mitch McConnell. He sort of chuckled and said, well, you know, Mitch always says no.

And you know, I don't think Biden and his team are under any illusions here. I mean, math is math. I'm not that good at math but a 50/50 Senate was never likely to produce a transformative results in terms of legislation. It is just not how the numbers add up. I do think that John is right. That you know, Biden may have come to enjoy his Europe trip a lot more than he's return home.

He even got the leaders of the E.U. and the G-7 on board with his build back better slogan. You know, he gets to enjoy his time on the world stage, as much as we are you know, saying that Vladimir Putin enjoys the pageantry of international summitry and being recognized as a world leader, I think American presidents also enjoy this period far, far away from Congress.

And Biden is going to have to make some decisions. I think that you know, he's been really good in trying to buy space and time for those decisions. But there will be a point sometime very soon, possibly in the next week or so, when President Biden is going to have to decide.

Is he willing to take a first crack at an infrastructure bill? That enough Republican votes might be given to him for it? Or is that simply just not acceptable to him? That's going to be in the end something that the president has to make the call on.

LEMON: Well -- excuse me, John, since Susan is trying to steal my thunder and talk about Mitch McConnell, I'm kidding, Susan.

(LAUGHTER)

So actually, since you mentioned it, let's play the sound bite of the president talking about Mitch McConnell. This is earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Mitch McConnell said that if Republicans were to take back the Senate in 2022, he did not see a way that you could get a Supreme Court justice confirmed. Do you have a response to that? It will be next year.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, I know, I know. The answer is, Mitch is -- Mitch has been nothing but no for a long time. And I'm sure he means exactly what he says but we'll see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Listen. John, Biden was smirking as the reporter was asking him that question. But I mean, what is his plan to deal with McConnell's obstruction? It affects nearly everything that he wants to accomplish in office.

HARWOOD: Well, I think it actually is an analog to his hopes for dealing with Vladimir Putin. That is to say, you can't change another person's behavior. Excuse me -- their character. But you can try to influence their behavior by the incentives that you give them. So, when Biden is dealing with Putin, he says, let him know that we have significant cyber capability. And if he crosses certain lines that we have laid out for him, he knows that we have the ability to hit back. He hopes that will have an effect. We will see.

With Mitch McConnell, what he is saying is yes. Mitch McConnell will want to block any Supreme Court nominee that I offer. The question is, is Mitch McConnell going to have the throw weight within the Republican caucus to make that stick? He could with Obama in 2016. Could he do it against Joe Biden? Who has been consistently popular? Maybe. Maybe he can, maybe he can't.

And one of the things that we've seen on infrastructure. We saw a deal today where 11 Republicans said they were going to sign on to this bipartisan deal. And if that sticks, I believe Biden will accept it and then go for the follow-on reconciliation bill with Democrats only.

[23:10:13]

But why are there 11 Republicans willing to sign on to that deal? Because in fact, infrastructure is pretty popular. And Biden has purposefully set the most popular elements of his agenda first. COVID relief, led off. Now infrastructure. That doesn't guarantee that you can get the votes. But it maximizes your chance of getting the votes. And similarly, I think he will try to put pressure on McConnell if it comes to that by both his popularity, his suasion with the public and the nature of the choice that he would make.

LEMON: John, my apologies again for calling you out of your name, especially John Avlon, of all people. I'm just kidding. I love both John. You know that. Both Johns. Thank you, John, thank you Susan, I appreciate it.

I want to bring in now the former U.S. Ambassador Alexander Vershbow. He was ambassador to Russia from 2001 to 2005. Ambassador, thanks for joining. I appreciate it.

ALEXANDER VERSHBOW, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA (on camera): Good evening.

LEMON: So the president wanted to meet Putin face-to-face. And he took some heat at home for elevating Putin with this summit. Was it worth it? What is your assessment?

VERSHBOW: I think it was definitely worth it. The president think did as he said himself, achieve what he set out to do. There was never any expectation of big decisions or breakthroughs. There's just too many problems in the relationship to expect that. But what he did was first of all, follow up on the G-7 and NATO and showing again that the United States is back as leading the free world. Leading the west in defense of Democratic values.

And then I would describe what he did as challenging President Putin to pursue a more constructive agenda based on mutual interests, rather than continuing his presence, disruptive zero sum approach. Biden, of course, did lay out all of our concerns about Russian behavior. Ukraine, Belarus cyber-attacks, suppression of human rights at home.

And he was very explicit in telling Putin face-to-face that we will respond very firmly if the Russians continue with this kind of behavior. But he made clear that the U.S. would prefer to achieve a more stable and predictable relationship through dialogue and cooperation. So he basically said the choice is Russia's. And no high expectations that Putin will change his behavior. That was very clear in the (inaudible) with (inaudible).

LEMON: Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Because at the press conference, Putin deflected on everything from cybercrime, to human rights, I mean, it is all part of his regular public performance. But do you think it's going to make him rethink his behavior at all?

VERSHBOW: Well, I wouldn't bet too much money on it but I think there is a chance. You know, he may not be impressed by Biden's appeal to his sense of self-interest. But he may be persuade by the -- I think certainty that Biden means what he says when it comes to responding to the Russians if they continue with the ransomware attacks. Ratcheting up the pressure on Ukraine, maybe more sanctions, maybe additional arms to the Ukrainians.

And that in time may lead the some softening in Russian behavior. Like Biden, one can't be too optimistic. Putin benefits from the enemy image of the United States, describing Russia as a besiege fortress makes it easier to blame the west for the stagnant economy and for the repression that Putin is carrying out.

But you know, this is a dynamic situation. And Biden said, you know, let's see what happens in the next six to 12 months. If Putin doesn't take up this offer, we have these strong measures, we have a unified transatlantic community ready to put the pressure on Putin if he remains stubborn.

LEMON: There is one hopeful sign though. Both men mentioned exchanging prisoners. Before we run out of time here to -- I want to make sure before I lose you, I should say. Do you think that will really happen?

VERSHBOW: I think there is a good chance of that. I mean, there will be a swap. And we may have to release people who are probably -- first of all really guilty. Not jailed on trumped up charges. But nevertheless, I think that this is the kind of things Putin likes to engage in as a former spy master, these exchanges of prisoners.

The other interesting thing that I thought came out of this meeting was, what Biden suggested regarding cyber security. Declaring 16 kinds of critical infrastructure off limits to cyber-attacks. That's going to put Putin to the test as well, because it is very verifiable whether they lay off those facilities or whether they continue with the ransomware attacks. So I thought it was altogether a fairly clever approach by Biden. But no immediate results were ever expected.

[23:15:22]

LEMON: Yes. We're grateful to have you and to hear your knowledge and what you think about -- what happened in Geneva. Thank you very much Ambassador Vershbow.

So, I want to bring in now CNN contributor Garrett Graff. Garrett, thank you, sir. Good to see you. It's been a long time as well. You need to come back more often. Throughout this trip the president has said that we're in a critical moment in the fight for democracy at home and abroad. He has called out what he calls phony populism. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The world has reached a fundamental inflection point about what it's going to look like 10 years from now. A lot is going on. I don't know about you. I never anticipated, in my understanding, no matter how persuasive President Trump was. That we would have people attacking and breaking down the doors of the United States Capitol. I didn't think that would happen.

It is a shock and surprise that what's happened in terms of the consequence of President Trump's phony populism has happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, what exactly is this phony populism that he's talking about?

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (on camera): Yeah. This has been a core part of Donald Trump's message since the beginning. But also, you know, you go back and you see the roots of this in the Tea Party, and the rise of the Tea Party in the wake of 2008, 2009 financial crisis. What we have seen is this basically, phony populism that has arisen as globalization, has cut off a core set of workers around the world from the benefits that they thought that they were going to get.

And that in many cases, both in Donald Trump's movement here in the United States and in countries overseas, you're seeing authoritarian leaders masquerading as populists. Basically this is the Donald Trump only I can fix this. And you're seeing this with Ader, in Hungary. You're seeing this with Erdogan in Turkey. Other countries around the world.

And this is something that U.S. Intelligence is actually warning a lot about these days. This slip away from liberal democracy that 10 years ago still seemed so ascended after the cold war, it is no longer the way the world is trending.

LEMON: Garrett, unfortunately, that is all the time we have tonight. I appreciate you joining us. We'll see you soon. Thanks.

GRAFF: Always a pleasure, Don.

LEMON: Congress is passing a bill that makes Juneteenth a national holiday, but not everyone voted for it. More on that, next.

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[23:20:00]

LEMON: Today Congress passing a bill to make Juneteenth a national holiday commemorating the end of slavery in the United States. The holiday honoring June 19th, 1865, a day that union army major general Gordon Granger rode into Galveston Texas and told slaves of their emancipation. That was two years after President Abraham Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation.

Next it goes to President Joe Biden to sign which he is expected to do. But at the same time on Capitol Hill, a group of Republicans introducing a bill to defund the 1619 project curriculum. And joining me now to discuss is Clint Smith, he is a staff writer at the Atlantic and the author of How the word is passed, a reckoning with the history of slavery across America.

Clint, I'm so happy to have you on. Thank you so much. I'm going to get to your book. But I want to start with the opposition of the critical race theory. The new Republican wedge issues. Senator Tom Cotton, Mitch McConnell, other Republican lawmakers introducing a bill this week that would prohibit the use of federal funds to teach the 1619 project.

Here's what Senator Cotton said. He said activists in schools want to teach our kids to hate America, hate each other using discredited critical race theory curricula like the 1619 project. Federal funds should not pay for activist to masquerade as teachers and indoctrinate our youth.

Look, this is just not accurate and it really shows how afraid people are to talk about race. How did critical race theory become such a -- the new boogie man for the right?

CLINT SMITH, STAFF WRITER, ATLANTIC: Yeah. I think part of what it reflects is something that has been happening in this country for a long time. It is that the nature of white supremacy takes empirical evidence -- empirical statements and turns them into ideological ones.

So for example, if I'm to say the confederacy was a treasonous territory that raised an army predicated on maintaining and expanding the institution of slavery. In some classes, in some places, some people might see that as an ideological statement or a political statement or me attempting to indoctrinate students.

When it actually just reflective of the primary source of documents and historical evidence we have in front of us. All you have to do is look at the Declaration of Confederacy succession that these states had in 1861. In a state like Mississippi, it says very clearly, our position is thoroughly aligned with the institution of slavery, the greatest material interest in the world.

LEMON: Yes.

SMITH: So, they're not unclear about why this is seeding from the union and why they are about to fight the civil war. But part of what this attempt to attack CRT in the 1619 project, slavery and racism, is that it attempts to turn these again, historical facts into something ideological. And it's not. And they do that because they know that the more young people come to understand the true history of this country, the less this country can lie to them.

[23:25:10]

The more they realize that the reason one community looks one way and another community looks on another way, it is not because of the people in those communities but it is because of what has been done to those communities generation after generation after generation.

LEMON: Today, the House passes legislation to make Juneteenth a federal holiday, one that commemorates the end of slavery in the U.S. I mean, is it interesting that this could be get broad bipartisan support. Isn't this an example of a type of reexamination that critical race theory asks us to do?

SMITH: It is a sort of strange timely that as Juneteenth is about to become a national holiday, there is a states sanctioned effort in state legislatures across the country to prevent any sort of meaningful interrogation or engagement with the very thing that makes a holiday like Juneteenth possible.

But you know, I'm not one to say that it doesn't matter. I think symbolism is important and it does matter. But it is not obviously in and of itself enough. And so there is a sort of cognitive dissonance that one experiences when Juneteenth is about to become a national holiday.

But we have these states that are attempting to suppress the teaching of American history and also put in place voting laws that are intentionally meant to prevent black people from having access to the ballot box in the same way. And so this is the marathon of cognitive dissonance that black people would always experience in this country.

LEMON: Considering the way it happened, the timing, and just the process. I mean, maybe it slipped by them. I don't know. But you know, them commemorating June -- or making it a national holiday really comes out of the blue. But you know what, as you said, I'll take it. You know, just paraphrasing your thoughts there.

So look, your book is called, How the word is passed. A reckoning with the history of slavery across America. In your book you visit eight places that were central to the history of slavery in America. You wrote this book impart as a response to the negative messages you heard growing up in your majority of black home town of New Orleans, not too far from -- just down the road as they say, from Baton Rouge where I'm from. Tell me about that and how it affected you, Clint. SMITH: Yeah. So the origins story of this book is that, I was watching

the statues of several confederate monuments come down in my hometown in New Orleans. (Inaudible), Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority of black city in which there were more homages to enslavers, than they were to enslave people.

What does it mean that to get to school, I had to go down to Robert E. Lee Boulevard? To get to the grocery store, I had to go around Jefferson Davis highway. And my middle school was named after a leader of the confederacy that my parents still live on a street named after somebody who owned the 150 enslaved people.

As we mentioned, the thing about symbols, and monuments and iconography that they're not just symbols. Like symbols shape the stories that societies tell. And those stories can bed themselves into the narratives that the community carries. And those narratives shape public policy. And public policy shapes material conditions to people's lives.

And that's not to say that taking down a statue of Robert E. Lee is going to raise the racial wealth gap, but it is to say that these things are all part of an ecosystem of ideas and stories that shape on how we understand what communities do and don't deserve.

And how communities have, has been shaped by their history. And so part of what I wanted to do with this book was go to different places across the country and to examine how different historical sites, Angola prison, (Inaudible) plantation, (inaudible) plantation, New York City among all. How they wrestle with and confront their relationship to this history or run from it.

LEMON: I really enjoyed this conversation. I hope that you will come back and appear on this program. Clint Smith, thank you so much. The book is how the word is passed. Thank you, Clint Smith.

SMITH: Thank you.

LEMON: So first it was Antifa. And now it's the FBI? Tucker Carlson's newest baseless theory about the insurrection and how he is spreading it to millions of people. Next.

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[23:30:00]

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LEMON (on camera): The Fox propaganda network's Tucker Carlson pushing a conspiracy with no legitimate proof that the FBI organized the January 6th Capitol attack, and the claim is already being picked up by some GOP lawmakers. Here's CNN's chief media correspondent Brian Stelter.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNKNOWN: When you assume --

(LAUGHTER)

UNKNOWN: -- you make an ass of you and me.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tucker Carlson must have forgotten this lesson from the "Odd Couple," because his latest January 6th conspiracy theory makes huge assumptions in a baseless bid to let rioters off the hook.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: But strangely, some of the key people who participated on January 6th have not been charged.

STELTER (voice-over): It's not strange at all. Prosecutors are still building their cases. But Carlson is claiming without any proof that the people given anonymity in court papers, the people called unindicted co-conspirators, were actually government agitators there to stoke a riot.

CARLSON: The government knows who they are, but the government has not charged them. Why is that? You know why. They were almost certainly working for the FBI. So, FBI operatives were organizing the attack on the Capitol on January 6th.

STELTER (voice-over): Carlson is known for his logical leaps, but this is one of his most egregious ever.

CARLSON: This is crazy, and we should resist it.

STELTER (voice-over): And now, Carlson has whipped up his allies into frenzy.

[23:35:00]

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Whew!

STELTER (voice-over): Here is Marjorie Taylor Greene assuming Carlson is right and saying we need names and answers about the FBI operatives who were involved. But this is just another baseless theory that Carlson has hyped to millions of people.

The existence of unnamed as yet uncharged co-conspirators does not mean they were working undercover for the FBI. Just look at the size of the mob. This is a massive case.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The phrase unindicted co-conspirator absolutely cannot refer to an FBI agent acting as an undercover or to anybody acting on behalf of the FBI, because under federal law, if a person is acting for the government, they're not actually part of a crime because they're essentially pretending.

STELTER (voice-over): But in Tucker world, conspiracy beats reality. Just look at his banner onscreen and asking, what really happened on January 6th, as if it is some sort of mystery. And his guest --

DARREN BEATTIE, FORMER SPEECHWRITER FOR DONALD TRUMP: Prior relationship with the federal government --

STELTER (voice-over): Darren Beattie, a former speechwriter for President Trump, attended a conference frequented by white nationalists. When CNN exposed this, he left the White House. But Tucker never mentioned any of that. Instead, he promoted Beattie's website, which posted a just asking questions sort of story, suggesting that the feds infiltrated militia groups who ransacked the Capitol.

For Carlson, it is part of a story that he's been telling ever since the night of January 6th.

TUCKER: It is not your fault. It is their fault.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON (on camera): Always with the questions. Great reporting, CNN's Brian Stelter. Brian is here along with former FBI assistant director for the criminal investigative division, Chris Swecker. They're going to explain exactly what is going through Tucker Carlson's head. That's next.

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[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So the Fox propaganda network pushing the baseless conspiracy that government agents planned the Capitol insurrection. Brian Stelter joins me now, along with Chris Swecker, the former FBI assistant director for the criminal investigative division.

Gentlemen, thank you so much. Brian, I appreciate the report just before the break. As you mentioned, this whole story line comes from a site run by a former Trump White House speechwriter who left the White House after he attended a conference attended by white nationalists.

Does Tucker really take this guy seriously?

STELTER: Well, in a word, yes. This is how the right-wing media world works. That is on a French website, hits on the Tucker show, and then spreads all throughout the GOP. That is what is happening in the last 24 hours.

In the MAGA echo chamber, the idea is that brave patriots were entrapped by the feds, were tricked or were pushed into starting a riot. No evidence at all, lots of evidence to the contrary, but Tucker somehow seems to need to provide excuses for these rioters to let them off the hook, to say they were innocent, brave patriots.

LEMON: Chris, so, give us the facts here. The whole premise of this is based on two unindicted co-conspirators. Can you please explain what that might mean? As Elie Honig said in Brian's piece, it can't refer to the FBI. CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: No. By definition, in a conspiracy, you can't have a government agent as an unindicted co-conspirator. Don, most unindicted co-conspirators are people who cooperated after the fact. And that's how you -- by the way, that's how you make conspiracy cases. They are by definition also one or more people agreeing to commit a crime and taking steps to commit that crime.

So, unindicted co-conspirators, I think what Tucker is reflecting is a fundamental misunderstanding of the criminal justice system. It is not the kind of thing you say if you want to be taken seriously.

LEMON: Hmm. Chris, you heard from -- we heard from Officer Michael Fanone earlier in the show. He was brutally attacked like many officers defending the Capitol. The right-wing likes to champion law and order. But isn't indulging these sorts of conspiracies a slap in the face to law enforcement?

SWECKER: It is. I mean, 130 officers were assaulted that day, over 130. Many have been charged for those assaults. And I think if you ask any police officer in the country, they would come out strongly, saying the same thing that I am. I mean, everything that happened that day was wrong.

LEMON: Brian, let's talk -- a new edition of your book, "Hoax," is now out. It is new chapter detailing the rise of the big lie leading to the Capitol attack.

STELTER: Yeah.

LEMON: Even after the attack, some Republicans tried to lie and say that it was actually Antifa, Black Lives Matter, who attacked the Capitol on January 6th. Where did you learn about where these lies come from?

STELTER: That attempt started on the very night of the riot. That is why I went in "Hoax" (ph) and I went back to all tapes and showed what the commentators were saying right after the attack.

The Antifa craziness, all those conspiracy theories, to divert blame, it started right away and it has continued to this day. Now, here we are talking about Tucker promoting an inside job false flag theory. It is all more of the same. I think in some ways, Don, it is so insidious because they're presenting seven or eight different theories, none of which make essential, but all which provide excuses.

I think in some ways, it is because the insurrection was so shameful. It was so criminal. It was such an attack on our democracy that there has to be an excuse.

LEMON: Hmm.

[23:44:59]

STELTER: Tucker has to present these alternative realities in order to let his viewers, I guess, sleep better at night, to be honest, Don. LEMON: And we've heard from law enforcement and from intelligence officials, Chris, that they're concerned that this could lead to more violence.

SWECKER: It could. I mean, Don, I would like to think that the FBI and other law enforcement agencies have actually penetrated these organizations and actually have informants in these organizations. I think they're behind in that area. It took us about five to eight years back in the '80s and early '90s to infiltrate these groups. It takes some time. But I don't think that even today they have enough coverage other than just reading their social media.

LEMON: Yeah. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Brian. I appreciate it. Make sure you check out Brian's book, "Hoax," now out in paperback.

It is the final debate. New York's Democratic candidates for mayor making the last push for votes before the primary election and taking final punches at each other as well. Stay with us.

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON (on camera): Democrats hoping to become New York City's next mayor facing off tonight for the final time, before the primary election next week. CNN's Athena Jones has the debate highlights.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNKNOWN: The leading Democratic contenders are here tonight.

ATHENA JONES, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With early voting already in progress and Election Day less than a week away, the top contenders in New York City's democratic mayoral primary, making their last pitch to voters in the final debate.

ERIC ADAMS, NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: If we don't get gun violence under control, it's going to stop our economic recovery.

KATHRYN GARCIA, NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I am not running to get the title of mayor. I am running to do the job of mayor because New York City needs someone who is going to roll up their sleeves and solve the impossible problems.

JONES (voice-over): And drawing contrast with their opponents. Former- 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful, Andrew Yang, is hitting Eric Adams, a former New York police captain, now serving as Brooklyn borough president, for not winning the endorsement of his former colleagues.

ANDREW YANG, NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: People who worked with him for years, people who know him best, they just endorsed me to be the next mayor of New York City. They think I'm a better choice than Eric to keep us and our families safe.

ADAMS: They didn't endorse me because I didn't ask for their endorsement. Never would in front of them --

JONES (voice-over): Adams and civil rights lawyer, Maya Wiley, who is leading among the race's progressives, sparring over policing, particularly Adams's defense of the NYPD's stop-and-frisk tactics and his push for the return of a plainclothes anti-gun unit.

MAYA WILEY, NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: The worst idea I've ever heard is bringing up back stop-and-frisk in the anti-crime unit from Eric Adams, which one, is racist, two, is unconstitutional, and three, didn't stop any crime, and four, it will not happen in a Maya Wiley administration.

ADAMS: I don't and never will allow stop-and-frisk to be returned and abuse people. I know real solution for real people in New York.

JONES (voice-over): At a time when the nation's most populous city is recovering from a pandemic-induced crisis and facing rising crime, much of the focus was on issues like public safety, mental health, and spurring economic growth.

SHAUN DONOVAN, NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: The health pandemic was preceded by an economic inequality pandemic that we need to go at in many different ways. We are seeing that play out on our streets and on our subways.

RAYMOND MCGUIRE, NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I understand what it's like to have anxiety about crime in the city.

WILEY: Our largest psychiatric facility in the city is Rikers Island.

JONES (voice-over): Improving education in the city rounded out the night's agenda and was the topic where there was perhaps the most agreement.

UNKNOWN: What's more important? Desegregating schools or improving the quality of schools?

SCOTT STRINGER, NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: You have to integrate and you also have to build quality schools.

GARCIA: You have to have high-quality schools and you have to have integrated schools. It is not a choice we should be making.

ADAMS: So, it's imperative to have both.

YANG: I think quality and integration go hand in hand.

JONES (voice-over): Athena Jones CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LEMON (on camera): Athena, thank you so much. I want to make sure that you know about my new podcast with my bud, Chris Cuomo. It's called "The Handoff," in case you can't get enough of this. (LAUGHTER)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Let's bring in D Lemon. And before you --

LEMON: Ninety-eight --

CUOMO: Yeah.

LEMON: Ninety-nine.

CUOMO: Yeah. Before you speak --

LEMON: One hundred.

CUOMO: What's the matter? Are you allergic to the ground?

LEMON: Always, Chris.

CUOMO: You only got to go halfway?

LEMON: Oh, just getting ready for the show.

CUOMO: You're allergic? You're allergic to the ground?

LEMON: Sorry about that. I was just doing my preshow warm-up here.

CUOMO: How are your pants?

LEMON: I actually ripped them.

CUOMO: Yep.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: That's what I heard.

LEMON: I'm not going to show that.

CUOMO: And, no, don't show me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): My, gosh, I was so young and skinny. It was just three years ago. Two years ago. Okay. Or this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What does lasagna of lies mean?

CUOMO: When you make a lasagne --

LEMON: You throw everything in?

CUOMO: -- you start with one layer of pasta. LEMON: OK.

CUOMO: And you have the meat. Then you have ricotta. Then you have some more cheese. Then you have some sauce. And then there's another layer of pasta. And then there's more meat. And then there's more ricotta. And then you have some more cheese. And then you have some more sauce. And you build it more and more and more. And that is the lasagna of lies that we are dealing with on this probe. Do you understand?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: From the south, Chris, it's a gumbo of lies. No, it's a jambalaya. How about that?

CUOMO: L-I-E.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:55:00]

LEMON (on camera): He is nuts. Nuts, I tell you. Look, we need a little levity and we're going to be getting to that and some levity and some seriousness, as well. So you got to tune in. Chris and I are taking you behind the scenes with an unfiltered look at our friendship and what we are talking about. So, subscribe exclusively on Apple podcasts.

And in case you didn't know, a new season of my podcast "Silence is Not an Option" is out now. What does it all mean? Lots more work for me. That's what it means, and Chris.

Thanks for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. President Biden is airborne heading back from his summit with Vladimir Putin.