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Don Lemon Tonight
GOP Lawmakers Point Their Fingers At FBI; January 6th Riot Is Not A Peaceful Protest; Gym Owner Facing 12 Federal Charges; Former V.P. Mike Pence Heckled By Trump Supporters; NBA Legend Reflects On The Lessons Of Life; Crime Rates Rising In New York City. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 18, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST: "DON LEMON TONIGHT" starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Michael, how are you? I never thought I would be saying happy Juneteenth. But here we are in 2021. And finally, we are celebrating, at least a national holiday, are marking the end of slavery.
SMERCONISH: And it's a good thing. I think, you know, the acceptance by one of those rare issues, Don, about which it seems like the Congress, the House, and Senate, were able to come together. And that's a great thing, because we see so little of it these days.
LEMON: Yes. And I will be watching our coverage on the actual Juneteenth Day, tomorrow, the 19th. Michael, it's always a pleasure to see, you have a great weekend, and happy Juneteenth.
SMERCONISH: Good to see you.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
SMERCONISH: Thank you, sir.
LEMON: This is Don Lemon Tonight.
I hope you are enjoying your Juneteenth national holiday today. We are owning up to our history, and that's a good thing, as Michael just said. Not running away from it, like so many Republicans on the Hill, Capitol Hill I mean, what they're trying to do.
So, we are ending this week on a high note of truth. Yet, we have seen so much shameful whitewashing of the truth this week, especially about the deadly insurrection on January 6th, and it was an insurrection. So many lies about what really happened.
Today, the Justice Department releasing more video of horrific violence. This video is graphic, and actually they axed, what they did was graphic. A lot of profanity. It's not only disturbing, it's downright frightening. But we need to keep watching these videos because people are lie about what happened. Trying to point fingers. Or they're saying that it was just tourists visiting the capitol that day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: You're not trying to --
UNKNOWN: Are you an American? Act like --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: Not one idea. Talk to us (Inaudible).
UNKNOWN: Get the fuck out here.
UNKNOWN: Take it easy, man. Take it easy.
UNKNOWN: No, they work for us. Fuck them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Yes, so much for a support for law enforcement. Is it embarrassing to watch that? It should be. Does it anger you? It should. Is it frustrating? Yes. Shocking? Yes. No violence, right?
That's what they said. That man in the camouflage jacket you just saw who shoves and punches one of the police officers is identified as Scott Fairlamb. He is a gym owner from New Jersey. A judge is holding him in jail until his trial, because he is too dangerous. Gee, I can't figure out why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: What patriots do? We fucking disarm them. I know we storm the fucking capitol. Hey, fuck you!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): There you go. Peaceful, tourists, patriots, just another tourist. And it just gets worse. It's crazier. My colleague Drew Griffin has a big special report it's on Sunday night on that insurrection. It talks to a diehard Trump supporter who he talks to a diehard Trump supporter, I should say, who is in denial about the deadly violence. I want you to take a good listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: You do believe that Officer Sicknick died because of the riot?
COUY GRIFFIN, FOUNDER, COWBOYS FOR TRUMP: No, I'm not even so sure that Officer Sicknick is even dead.
GRIFFIN: Couy.
C. GRIFFIN: I'm serious. That's how and I hate to be so crazy conspiracy minded, I'm not even so sure that Ashli Babbitt is dead.
GRIFFIN: Couy.
C. GRIFFIN: I mean, who is to say that -- have you seen anything of her family?
ROGER WITTHOEFT, ASHLI BABBITT'S BROTHER: Up until the point where she passed, we live two blocks apart.
GRIFFIN: The answer, is yes.
WITTHOEFT: I mean, I'd say, through high school, me and my sister were best friends.
GRIFFIN: This is Ashli Babbitt's brother. Roger Witthoeft. He says he and his 35-year-old sister were very close.
WITTHOEFT: It was weird because we saw it on the news, and it was like, you know, that's my sister.
GRIFFIN: Witthoeft says his sister was a tomboy, who joined the military out of high school.
WITTHOEFT: She could do anything. She was invincible. That's the way I looked at her.
GRIFFIN: After the air force, Ashli Babbitt then bought a pool company in San Diego, which she ran with her husband and her brother.
WITTHOEFT: She was happy, talked about how she lives in a beautiful place, you know, actually does what she wants, that's the American dream.
GRIFFIN: And Witthoeft says, his sister had voted for Barack Obama.
WITTHOEFT: I think that proves in itself she wasn't as crazy as a lot of the media is portraying her to be.
GRIFFIN: Then, she became a Trump san.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Drew Griffin's special report airs Sunday night, at 9 p.m. And as I have been pointing out, Republicans and right-wing media who are downplaying the violence tried for months to blame followers of antifa, but that got no traction.
[22:04:59]
Some claim the antifa folks dress as Trump supporters. Yes, right. Now they are blaming the FBI and government agents. The host over at the Fox propaganda claims to have documents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS: So, FBI operatives were organizing the attack on the capitol on January 6th, according to government documents. And those two aren't alone. In all, Revolver News reported there are, quote, "upwards of 20 unindicted coconspirators in the Oath Keepers indictments, all playing various roles in the conspiracy, who have not been charged for virtually the exact same activities, and in some cases, much, much more severe activities, as those named alongside them in the indictments."
Huh? So, it turns out that this white supremacist insurrection was, again, by the government's own admission in these documents, organized at least in part, by government agents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Huh? That huh? Yes, it's a problem, he says that. Yes, it sure. It is a problem. It is a bigger problem that a lot of people are now going to believe that. Susceptible people. They can be co-opted. Susceptible people who don't bother to find out the facts. It's an even bigger problem that some of them can now spread this from their seats in congress, QAnon supporter Marjorie Taylor Greene. Here is what she tweets.
We need names and answers about the FBI operatives who were involved in organizing and carrying out the January 6th capitol riot. First, they had a backup plan to stop Trump in Russian -- Russia collusion witch hunt, now we are finding out they were deeply involved in January 6th deep state.
This is so ridiculous. One conspiracy theory after the other, it just keeps going, they keep upping the ante on the craziness, and it is craziness. And guess what, no respect for the people there serving, because they're lying to them.
I told you that we would bring you the truth, and here it is. OK? Former FBI agents and former federal prosecutors told me just this week on this very program that the phrase unindicted coconspirator absolutely cannot apply to an FBI agent acting undercover, or to anybody acting on behalf of the FBI. Because under federal law the person is acting for the government, they are not actually part of a crime. An unindicted coconspirator is someone who cooperated with prosecutors after the fact. And by definition cannot be a government agent.
But they'll never hear that because they'll never say it. Everyone is in their silo. Right? Their silos. Just watching the propaganda channel and just getting filled up with nonsense. As I like to say here, facts first, of course.
But then there is Texas GOP Louie Gohmert who always loves to spew a good conspiracy theory and waste time on the House floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R-TX): We need to know how much participation did any of our federal friends either at the DOJ, FBI, or any of the intel community, what kind of role were they playing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): But here is what is even kookier than all of this FBI conspiracy baloney, or what is our current president would say, malarkey. It's what happened to Mike Pence. Is there anyone more conservative than Mike Pence? I mean, seriously. He ranks up there as one of the most loyal conservative soldiers, and yet, today, at a conference for religious conservatives, Pence was heckled and called a traitor. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And I want to thank my friend Ralph Reed for those overly generous words.
UNKNOWN: Traitor.
PENCE: I'm deeply humbled by them.
UNKNOWN: Traitor!
UNKNOWN: Traitor!
UNKNOWN: Traitor!
PENCE: Ralph Reed knows me well enough to know --
UNKNOWN: Traitor!
PENCE: -- the introduction I prefer is a little shorter. I'm a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican in that order and I'm honored to stand before you today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Well, we know why Pence got the traitor treatment, right? Because on January 6th, in his role as vice president, he upheld the Constitution and the will of the American people and did not bow to Trump's insane demands that he overturned Joe Biden's election victory, and for that, on January 6th, he was met with these chants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:09:58]
LEMON (on camera): Trump supporters bringing gallows to the grounds of the capitol. Let me say that again. A gallows was brought to the capitol. There it is on your screen if you don't, you know, don't take my word for it. There it is. Brought to the Capitol Hill to hang the president of the United States if the attackers who stormed said capitol building could get their hands on the vice president. Mike Pence had to be safely evacuated from the House floor as rioters broke into the chamber. Mike Pence put country above Trump's crazy request to overturn the election so Trump could remain in office. And for that, he gets heckled by the same people who would be the first to lecture you or me, or anyone about law and order and the Constitution. Right?
He did something that should be deemed in any circle as patriotic. And for that he is called a traitor, that's the treatment he gets. Hang him. And yet, the twice impeached, one-term, sore loser, still gets a free pass from those conservatives and others. He incited a deadly insurrection.
He incited a deadly insurrection. Imploring his supporters to fight like heck at the seat of our democracy. Because his too fragile ego can't accept the fact that he lost the election. Or, has he finally admitted it? Roll that tape from Sean Hannity's show two nights ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We were supposed to win easily at 64 million votes, and we got 75 million votes. We didn't win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): No. You didn't win. And like I said last night, he knew it all along. Just played a big game with his supporters. They fell for the okey-doke. Are you still going to fall for it? But the rest of the country didn't fall for the okey-doke. But enough of him. Right?
Because it's a Friday night. I want to show you something really, really great. OK? Friday night. Something good. Capitol police officer Eugene Goodman who may have saved lives by luring rioters away from the Senate chamber on January 6th, throwing out the ceremonial first pitch tonight at the gain between the Nationals and the Mets. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Officer Goodman, when you are ready, it's your pitch!
(APPLAUSE)
LEMON (on camera): Boom. Hey, look. It wasn't bad. Bravo, sir. You are an American hero, and that's the truth at the end of a long week. But those who stormed the capitol are not heroes. They are not patriots, and the proof is in the video showing horrible acts of violence.
Up next, two former members of the FBI on the insane conspiracy theory on the right that the bureau was behind the deadly attack.
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON (on camera): The Justice Department releasing horrific new videos from January 6th insurrection showing a Trump supporter taunting, stocking and stalking, and ultimately punching a police officer, and I must you it's disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Are you an American? Like one.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: You are getting --
UNKNOWN: What the fuck you're doing.
UNKNOWN: You guys have no idea what the fuck you're doing. Now once again --
UNKNOWN: Don't touch me!
UNKNOWN: Not one idea.
UNKNOWN: Talk to us (Inaudible).
UNKNOWN: Get the fuck out here!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Yes, support the blue, right? Blue lives matter. Law and order. That rioter's name is Scott Fairland, he is a gym owner from New Jersey charged with 12 criminal counts, including assaulting police and carrying a dangerous weapon into the capitol. The judge says that these videos show Fairlamb may still be dangerous, so he is jail pending trial.
Joining me now, Chris Swecker, former FBI assistant director for criminal investigative division, and Asha Rangappa, a former FBI special agent who is also a CNN legal national security analyst.
Good evening to both of, you both of you. Good to see you.
Asha, I'm going to start with you. So far almost 500, 489 people have been charged in connection with the capitol attack and the FBI director says that more serious charges are coming, which means videos like this showing the horrors of January 6th will be coming up possibly for years. How important is this video? Not just as evidence but as a record of what happened on that day?
ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, Don. These videos are witness to what happened that day. As we are seeing both time and, you know, the spin that's being put on what happened on January 2nd is erasing the events of that day. And how we experienced it in that moment from our collective memory.
And so, these videos are going to be incredibly important. These indictments are going to be incredibly important as they put down on paper exactly what each of these individuals dead. I think that for this reason the impeachment was important, even though, you know, there was no chance of conviction, you know, or anything. It really, in that moment in the immediate aftermath kind of sat down and how it was remembered and experience in a sort of a historical document in my opinion.
LEMON: So, Chris, when I look at these videos it's -- they make me angry. I just can't believe, you know, what I'm seeing, and that people really acted this way towards law enforcement and think it's their right to do so. I mean, this video shows how rioters were taunting, they're stalking, punching officers outside that capitol. What do you see when you look at this?
CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: Don, I see, and it's been like this for the last 14 months. I see disrespect and violence committed against those people who are out there trying to protect us. And as I said, I don't care what your political persuasion is. I've seen it from the left, I've seen it from the right. We've all had enough of it. We all ought to condemn it. No matter where it comes from. They ought to put these people under the jail.
[22:19:55]
LEMON: But how can people, Chris, I just want to know from you as a member of law enforcement, how can people be in denial about what happened? You're talking about the folks who are out there. And now I'm talking about the people who are in denial and saying that these people are patriots and tourists and that they were peaceful, somehow peaceful protesters?
SWECKER: Yes. Nothing that happened that day is defensible. I mean, I'm a conservative, Don, I'm for, you know, I'm for strong law enforcement, and other conservative issues, but what happened on January 6th is completely, indefensible. There were no FBI conspiracies cooking, we'll find that out when these cases get to court, when the evidence comes out, when these police come out because most of these unindicted coconspirators are cooperators. I'll say it now, and you'll hear it again in court when these people plead out and when they have trials.
LEMON: Yes. Asha, officers were beaten, they were tased, they suffered brain injury, one lost an eye, and of course five people died. Like Chris mentioned, Trump supporter's latest conspiracy theory is that the FBI was behind the insurrection. You both worked at the FBI, you know this is crazy. But it is being pushed by sitting members of Congress. How dangerous is that?
RANGAPPA: It's very dangerous, Don, because it is -- it's making the government the enemy. Listen, there is a threat, an anti-government threat that, you know, is distrustful of law enforcement of political officials, this has been the case since the 80s. I think the difference is, is that, presidents, you know, like Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush put a lot of resources into fighting these anti- government militia movements, and we saw that over the years leading up even to Oklahoma City. I think what is a really dangerous here is that that used to be a
fringe movement that, you know, we put government resources into combatting path. And now, that fringe movement has sort of morphed and merged with at least elements of a political party. And that makes it very difficult to combat.
This is a part of the domestic terrorism strategy just put out by the Biden administration, the anti-government militia groups, but it's going to be very hard when we have members of Congress who, essentially, are helping to obfuscate what happened and prevent a full accounting of what happened on January 6th.
LEMON: And thus, possibly promoting more violence, at least more division, for sure.
RANGAPPA: Correct.
LEMON: Chris, are you concerned that these conspiracy theories could put law enforcement in danger?
SWECKER: No, I mean, they're not any more than they are now. I mean, as I said, they've been getting it from the left and the right. They've been getting it from every direction. We are seeing officers quitting the force, people retiring early. None of this is good for law enforcement and, you know, the disrespect it does get viral.
You may be right about that, Don, when you start seeing this type of thing. The media picks up on it and people think it's OK. So, officers are bunkering down, and you know, I feel for them. It's a tough time to be a law enforcement officer.
LEMON: The difference, though, I will say, Chris, is that there are people in Congress who are denying the violence on the officers on January 6th, but not denying the violence of the officers in the situation that you're talking about that happened during the unrest of last summer.
They are saying, one is completely not legitimate, you should not be, you know, going up against police officers, and the other one is a patriotic act, and that is sort of the disconnect that most people around the country don't understand.
Thank you both, I appreciate it.
SWECKER: They're great.
LEMON: So, and take this, I want to show you two tweets demonstrating the absolute absurdity of the GOP outrage machine. Both from right- wing provocateur Charlie Kirk. The first is a tweet from last year. Praising Senate Republicans for introducing a bill to make Juneteenth a federal holiday, and then it goes on to ask, why former President Barack Obama and then V.P. Biden didn't establish a holiday during their administration.
Fast forward, but not that far forward, remember one year to a tweet from yesterday. Kirk says, that Juneteenth isn't affront to July 4th, and slams GOP lawmakers for supporting the bill.
Ladies and gentlemen, that is a flip-flop of stupid proportions. But not the only foolish Republican take on Juneteenth. Coming up, former President Trump claims that he is the one who made the decades' old holiday famous.
[22:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): Supporters of the former guy heckling former V.P. Mike Pence at a religious conservative conference, some people outright calling him a traitor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PENCE: And I want to thank my friend Ralph Reed for those overly generous words.
UNKNOWN: Traitor.
PENCE: I'm deeply humbled by them.
UNKNOWN: Traitor!
UNKNOWN: Traitor!
UNKNOWN: Traitor!
PENCE: Ralph Reed knows me well enough to know --
UNKNOWN: Traitor!
PENCE: -- the introduction I prefer is a little shorter. I'm a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican in that order and I'm honored to stand before you today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Well, there you go. Joining me now Mark McKinnon, former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain, the executive producer of The Circus, and CNN political analyst April Ryan is here, White House correspondent for The Grio.
Good evening to both of you. Boy, boy.
MARK MCKINNON, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE CIRCUS": Good evening. Hi, Don.
LEMON: That is something to see. Mark Pence refused to go along with Trump and trying to overturn the election even though he was one of Trump 's most loyal lieutenants. Is the big lie the only loyal test that matters now?
[22:29:57] MCKINNON: Clearly, it is, because nobody had been more loyal to Donald Trump than Mike Pence. And the irony of what's going on there is that these Republicans, these base Republicans and Trump supporters who are now calling Pence a traitor, they're calling him a traitor for - because he was protecting the Constitution. He was upholding the Constitution which these Republicans say are so dear to them. It's a fundamental right that claimed Republican ownership of, so when Pence actually upheld the Constitution, where did they do? They call him a traitor.
LEMON: They called him a traitor. Right. They are supposed to be patriots, right? The Constitution. It's all about the Constitution. April, so there's a new political article adapted from Michael Bender's new book, the piece is called "I Made Juneteenth Very Famous: The Inside Story of Trump's Post George Floyd Month."
I mean, that line comes from, you know, what Trump told Bender claiming no one have heard of Juneteenth before his 2020 Tulsa rally. It sparked a firestorm because it was originally scheduled on Juneteenth, the fact that he thought --
APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
LEMON: -- this was just, you know, this shows how oblivious that he is to racial issues in America. And he thinks that no one knew about Juneteenth and he made it famous.
RYAN: Yes, it's the black croissants and also him begging for credit for everything. Donald Trump has made black America and the world see what happened with black America. Cut me a break. Bottom line, Donald Trump and reading this extraordinary work, Donald Trump had to ask his black Secret Service agent who is on the detail what do you think about this, and the Secret Service agent said, you know, this is disrespectful for you to do this and he wanted to change date.
But going back to the original issue which you brought about him telling everyone, well, this is a time of celebration that many in this country have known about. It's mostly original issue, but many across the nation, particularly blacks, a lot of us knew about it, but yes, he did bring more people into an earshot of Juneteenth the word, but he didn't really explain it as he tries to rewrite history.
But at the end of the day Donald Trump did make more people aware of it, but he did not --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Well, April --
RYAN: by mentioning it any means make people totally understand it. Juneteenth is something. No. It was there before he --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Yes. But I would say -- I would say that most people made Donald Trump aware of Juneteenth and through that awareness he got to talk about it.
RYAN: How about that.
LEMON: I don't think that, you know, I don't think that he made people aware.
RYAN: No.
LEMON: People made him aware and he was surprise like, is this a big deal? Or and the people around him should have known better. That is just their ignorance.
So, Mark, Bender describe how Trump was actually repulsed by what he saw in the George Floyd video and here's what he writes. He said, the president showed a level of empathy for Floyd behind closed doors that he would never fully reveal in public. Had he tried it might have helped dial down the tension. But Trump didn't see it as part of his job to show empathy. He was worried that such a display would signal weakness to his base.
I mean, this was a moment to unify the country, and instead he doubled down on division, Mark.
MCKINNON: No question about it. And as we've known all along, empathy is not a fundamental component of Donald Trump, certainly not anything he wants to show publicly. And his presidency he believed it was all about showing strength versus weakness. Always strength versus weakness.
And at the end of the day those who -- those sort of empathetic moments passed and then he started talking about how important it was for law enforcement to be cracking down on protesters. And just banking up on the Juneteenth issue, you know, he claims to have been such a proponent of black issues and the criminal justice reform with Jared Kushner.
He didn't -- he wasn't even aware that for three years prior to the Tulsa rally, that his office had put out statements from him about Juneteenth. And he didn't even know it. He wasn't even aware that he put out statements on Juneteenth.
LEMON: Yes.
MCKINNON: By the way, Michael Bender is a very good reporter, not with the New York Times or the Huffington Post, but with the conservative Wall Street Journal.
LEMON: Yes. Yes. So, April, listen, you have all this reporting. But even though, you know, from Bender, but even though Juneteenth is now a federal holiday you point out that some in the black community are unimpressed because there has been a little progress on voting rights, on police reform. Why was this holiday so easy, yet the GOP is intent on stopping legislation targeting racial inequality and, you know, voting rights and so on?
RYAN: I'm glad you read my report for The Grio. Basically, we have an issue here that people want to do things that feel good, but when it comes down to getting to the meat of it, for rights and freedoms, where are they? They are making it over the hurdle somewhat with Joe Manchin, now the next hurdle is uphill battle is with Mitch McConnell.
[22:34:58]
At issue, Democrats, minorities, people of color are winning. And there is an effort to stop the winning with these restrictive voting laws in states, Texas, Florida and Georgia. And even if the federal government had a new voting rights law, it would not affect the states that already came up with this new restrictive law.
The laws as we know it as it comes to voting rights are diminished. And if McConnell holds it up and the rest of Republicans were doom when it comes to voting --
LEMON: Yes.
RYAN: -- especially the next election.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you, April. Thank you, Mark.
RYAN: Thank you.
LEMON: Happy Juneteenth to both of you. I appreciate it.
MCKINNON: Kick it.
RYAN: You too.
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you. He says George Floyd's death wasn't a shock to him but it did push him to the edge. And now he is speaking out about the power of protest. The one and only, the NBA great, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, next.
[22:40:05]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): Juneteenth path to becoming a federal holiday was a long time coming but following the outrage after the murder of George Floyd last year the tides changed enormously. And my next guest NBA legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar has a new documentary that examines how protest movements changed history in this country. And he talks about his own fight for racial -- racial justice. And what he learned from meeting Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR, NBA HALL OF FAMER: This picture shows me at a press conference that Dr. King gave. I was in the journalism workshop, and I was given press credentials to cover this event with the national media. In 1963 I had been voted man of the year.
At that point I wasn't like the biggest fan of non-violence. I was angry at the way black people were being brutalized. And I wanted to strike back. But after meeting Dr. King and, you know, really getting into his philosophy I saw where the power was in it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Kareem Abdul-Jabbar joins me now. His documentary, Fight the Power, the movements that changed America. It airs tomorrow night 8 p.m. on the History channel.
Thank you for joining us. It's so good to see you. You have -- you have led such a rich life. I mean it's just unbelievable the things you've experienced and what you've accomplished. So, thank you for that. What a moment that must have been for you to interview Martin Luther King, Jr. What did you take away from that?
ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, great talking with you, Don. At the time, you don't really understand where you are in what you are doing. That's how it was for me. This was just like gees, I've got an opportunity to do this, but it really made me take a serious look at exactly what was happening and why.
And balancing Dr. King's philosophies against the philosophies of, say, Malcolm X more or less was, I can see that there were both sides of the same coin. But Dr. King's approach was the one that was going to work for black Americans. And it was very clear that by embarrassing the powers that be and showing them to be the bullies that they are, we take their power away.
LEMON: Yes.
ABDUL-JABBAR: And we make people listen to us as human beings and I valued that my whole life now. It has helped me make good choices. It's a very special time in my life. A very special moment in my life.
LEMON: Yes. And here we are, Kareem, all these years later. President Biden signing a bill making Juneteenth a federal holiday. I had D.L. Hughley on last night and he said America is the only place where you ask for justice but you get a holiday. What are your thoughts on that?
ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, I think it's taken a little bit too long for this to happen, for us to be completely happy about it. In some ways we are more relieved than happy. But I think that when people understand what black Americans have been through in human terms, I think that that is the steps that we need to take. And I think that's happening now.
It was the unfortunate circumstances of Mr. Floyd's murder, but it enabled a lot of white Americans to see the truth to what the black Americans have been saying for 400 years.
LEMON: Your documentary is called Fight for Power -- Fight the Power. The movements that changed America. It's about power -- the power of protest and resistance. The catalyst for change. And it includes all groups impacted by bigotry and discrimination. Why was it so important to tell the stories of all these different groups?
ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, it's important to tell the stories of all marginalized groups, because until we understand and make sure that all groups are free, all marginalize groups have the rights and protections that every other group have, until that happens none of us are free, because no matter what particular issue it might be you are going to end up in the box where everybody discriminates against you. And you have to deal with it.
So, it's absolutely important that the whole idea of empathy and understanding of these events and these situations touch everybody. It doesn't matter your background. Sooner or later you are going to be over this.
LEMON: I want to ask you about this. I understand that you were inspired from a young age by the book, "The Fire Next Time," by James Baldwin.
ABDUL-JABBAR: Yes, absolutely.
[22:45:02]
LEMON: It is the book that inspired me to write my book "This is The Fire." What did you learn from it and how did it change you?
ABDUL-JABBAR: It changed me and so far, as it explained to me how racism is the American original sin that's often spoken in the church. But that makes a lot of sense when you look at it objectively like that, and it gives you an idea of what you can do to change your circumstances, and forced people to acknowledge your humanity and to force them to accept the fact that your rights and privileges have to be accepted.
And it takes a while. It takes patience. And there are setbacks, but unfortunately that's where we have to do. But that's the only way that change can occur.
LEMON: Well, thank you so much for doing what you do and what you've done and what you continue to do. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, I appreciate it. And again, the documentary is Fight the Power, the movements that changed America. And it premieres tomorrow at 8 p.m. on the History channel. I appreciate it. And I love the background. Your background tonight. You win it. You win the award. It's better than --
ABDUL-JABBAR: Hollywood here.
LEMON: Thank you, Kareem. I'll see you soon.
ABDUL-JABBAR: Nice talking to you, Don. Have a good one.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
So, I'm going to -- this is awful that we are going to talk about. I can't believe that this is happening. Broad daylight in New York City. A masked gunman shooting at a 24-year-old man on a busy sidewalk. Two children caught in the cross fire. Thankfully though both unharmed, but why is this lawlessness happening now? The former New York City police commissioner is here, next.
[22:50:00]
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LEMON (on camera): So, I want you to look at this. But it's horrific. It is new video showing a gunman opening fire on a busy New York City sidewalk in broad daylight. Before I show you, I just want to warn you it is extremely graphic. OK?
So this surveillance video released -- look at that - by police, New York police, it shows a masked gunman shooting multiple times yesterday in the Bronx and you see the victims -- the victim he fought -- or the person he is shooting at falls over the two children in the chaos as the others run away. The NYPD says that the children were not hurt fortunately.
The 24-year-old victim was shot in the back and in both of his legs. He is in stable condition. The gunman fled on a scooter driven by someone else.
Joining me now is Bill Bratton, he is a former New York City Police Commissioner and the author of the "The Profession: A Memoir of Community, Race, And the Art of Policing in America."
I'm so glad that you're here to talk us through this, Commissioner. Good evening to you. This is, let's look at this again. You got these two children. They were not shot. I can't believe that they weren't shot after all that. But what do you think when you see a 10-year-old and 5-year-old caught quite literally in the middle of gunfire and this brazen man, the getaway guy, in broad daylight? I mean, what the hell is going on?
BILL BRATTON, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: I'm disgusted by what I see. I worked very hard to make New York the safest large city in America, reducing the homicide rate by 90 percent, overall crime rate by 80 percent. To have it all collapse in a year is something I never would have imagined could happen.
I predicted for 25 years crime would never go up in New York City again. Well, it is going up in catastrophic ways and the scene you're showing is just evidence of how bad it is. I mean, (Inaudible) but that optimism is now being shaped by the reality of the chaos on these country's streets of the city -- country's cities and it's not going to get better. It is going to get a lot worse during the summer and that's the sad truth unfortunately.
LEMON: Why do you said that, I mean, listen, that is a terrific omen. I hope that you're wrong but, listen, you know law enforcement, you know policing.
BRATTON: I won't be, sadly.
LEMON: Yes. So why do you think it's going to go up --
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BRATTON: I see nothing happening. I see nothing happening in terms of city after city where the crime rate is accelerating, going into the warmer weather, the amount of guns in this country is obscene, over 400 million of them. We are constantly weakening our laws trying really to control who has those firearms and we had a criminal justice system that during the coronavirus epidemic really collapsed.
There were no trials. We had a criminal justice reform movement that was going out of control with bail reform, criminal justice reform, in which we were letting people out of jail faster than we could put the bad ones in. And that's something that the criminal justice reform movement has forgotten is that unfortunately, in our society bad people like that guy with the gun who could have killed those two little children 10 and 5 and not thought anything about it.
Some people need to be in jail. But the criminal justice reform movement refuses to recognize that. So, there is really no punishment for people any longer. In New York City people arrested on gun charges very seldom do any time in jail waiting to go to trial. And we have them arrested three or four times with guns during the time they're waiting for trial.
So, it's not just New York. It's around the country. And it's -- I don't know what happens in that year of coronavirus that maybe we just got too comfortable with how safe the company -- the country had become.
[22:55:03]
Well, we are rushing back to 1990 in the space of a year. It took us 20 years to get to 1990 the worst crime year in the history of our country, 2,243 murders in New York City, over 5,000 people shot. It only took us a year to start going back this time. I don't know.
Political leadership has got to get their act together. But I'm not seeing anybody with any plans to deal with this. That's the sad part that's why I'm talking about it. There needs to be a great deal of concern on the part of the public. Who in public safety leadership is putting forth plans to keep the citizens of this country safe? I'm just not seeing it.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, the economy can come back. The real estate market can come back and all that. But you know what doesn't come back? A life. And you're right.
BRATTON: That's right.
LEMON: We got to get a handle. That's the most important thing is getting crime under control in New York City. Commissioner, I think that was the year I moved here in 1990, the worst year as you said and crime did get a lot better after that.
BRATTON: With those --
LEMON: Yes. Thank you very much, Commissioner Bratton. I really appreciate it.
BRATTON: Wish I had better news.
LEMON: Yes, I wish you did, too. And by the way, the book again is "The Profession: A Memoir of Community, Race, and the Arc of Policing in America."
Thank you for watching everyone. Our coverage continues. CNN's special report, a radical rebellion, the transformation of the GOP.
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