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Don Lemon Tonight

Families Desperately Wait For Answers; President Biden And First Lady To Visit Surfside, Florida; Rescue Teams Working Nonstop To Find Survivors; House GOP Likely To Kill The January 6th Select Committee; Condo Owner Describes Damages From Champlain Towers; President Biden Did Not Call Out Democrats' Defund The Police; L.A. County Back To Imposing Masks. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired June 29, 2021 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): And they don't have discipline and they don't bring in all the assets and marshal it, it's going to be ugly. And that isn't right. So, let's be together. That's what would be an American is all about. We can be better and we will better if we are together.

Thank you for the opportunity. The big show, "DON LEMON TONIGHT" with its star, D. Lemon right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: An interesting conversation that I had last night with the daughter of one of the people who is still missing. She said we're realistic. There is so much smoke. There's fire. Chances are, we know, not good, but we just want closure.

And I thought about that a lot over the last 24 hours, about what they want and what's needed. Remember, Chris, we both covered 9/11. The last person just being honest was pulled out 27 hours after the towers fell. It's been --

CUOMO: Alive.

LEMON: Alive. It's been six days. And I would hope that there are people there, but you speak to every single expert, and the possibility is just not there.

CUOMO: Listen, we all get it.

LEMON: It's not on the good side.

CUOMO: We all get it. But here is my head space on it, right?

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: I'll hold out for a miracle because there is no downside to doing it.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That's what I was going to say. You say hold out for a miracle. And I agree with you on that.

CUOMO: Right. And I'm saying I don't think that that is being abusive of the victims. They hold their own head and heart. I am not holding out for a miracle for answers.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: That is about pressure and time and we are learning that there were things to know, and there is a system at a minimum that did not work well enough here --

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: -- about inspections, safety, and forcing the hand of a building to do what it may or may not deem cost effective in the moment.

LEMON: I agree. I think that --

CUOMO: So, that we have to do.

LEMON: I do. But I think that the folks there need something and I'm just repeating what she said. She wants something. She wants either her loved one to be found. That would be the ultimate, alive, and to go on and lead a fulfilling life.

CUOMO: Would be a miracle.

LEMON: Would be a miracle. But she also if that doesn't happen, she wants to be able to have something so that she and her family can come together and celebrate the life that once was. You understand what I'm saying?

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: And there are 200 people --

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: -- on that building right now.

LEMON: Trying to do it.

CUOMO: What's left of it trying to give her exactly that --

LEMON: trying to give her exactly that.

CUOMO: -- and they are working their butts off.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: I know it for a fact.

LEMON: And I just said -- you know, she said to me in the commercial breaks and other folks said to me, you guys don't have to be on television trying to give us false hope and they are happy that we are at least trying to give them some answers about what is going on and the process and what could happen.

So yes, we would all love a miracle. At this point, it has been six days, and it is time for the folks there to either celebrate a life that has been found or to be able to celebrate a life that has been lost.

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: And so, you know.

CUOMO: Look, there is a dignity in that --

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: -- that they are due.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: But again, I'm not in control of that.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: What I'm in control of --

LEMON: Answers.

CUOMO: -- is slapping at every door that we can and make sure that people are doing this. I'll tell you. I don't like hearing government officials say we need answers but they haven't put anything in process yet to get answers.

LEMON: To get any answers. Yes.

CUOMO: And it has to start and it has to be done the right way and it has to happen soon, so we'll stay on it.

LEMON: I've got a lot of people there from down in that community to talk to tonight. I have some great guests.

CUOMO: Good.

LEMON: I have Dr. Anthony Fauci to talk about the Delta variant, so we've got a lot to get to. I shall see you tomorrow.

CUOMO: D. Lemon, I love you. Make your witness.

LEMON: I love you, brother. Thank you very much.

DON LEMON TONIGHT.

We are -- this is a dangerous day and a dangerous night in Surfside. Our hearts are with the folks there. They want some -- they want to know something. I hate the term closure but that's kind of that's what they want.

Rescuers are ducking falling debris there. There is rain forecast for every day for the next several days, lightning a constant risk as they are essentially standing on a huge piece of metal, lightning rod, right? But they're still out there, they're digging around the clock.

More than three million pounds of concrete already removed from that site. More than 800 responders from 60 agencies assisting with the search for any sign of the 149 people still unaccounted for as the death toll rises to 12 tonight.

Dispatch audio coming out of a first responder arriving, the first responder, a first responder, I should say, not the first responder arriving on the scene in the initial chaos after the collapse. People are still standing on their balconies. They were begging for help. That first responder saying, quote, "it almost resembles the trade center."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We have a 13-story building with most of the building gone. This building does not look stable. A quarter of the building that's left - we still have people standing upstairs that still need to be evacuated.

[22:05:01]

I see many people on their balconies. The building is gone. There's no elevators. There's -- this is nothing. I mean, it almost resembles the trade center.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): There you go. Rescue teams looking for clues in that rubble to where the bedrooms might be assuming that residents would have been sleeping at the time of that collapse. They're looking for carpet since the bedrooms were carpeted. They're also finding personal items in that rubble.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY PATRONIS, FLORIDA STATE FIRE MARSHALL: I was talking to one of the first responders who found a birthday card. Nobody is going to let that get lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): In the midst of all this tragedy the questions are more and more urgent tonight what caused this? Who is responsible? Who is in charge? And how many other buildings might be at risk?

The mayor of Miami-Dade County says that she would support the opening of a grand jury investigation into the collapse the causes and how they can prevent anything like this from ever happening again. A structural engineer hired by the town of Surfside telling CNN he has about 30 theories for what could've triggered the condo to collapse.

President Joe Biden and the first lady Jill Biden expected to travel to Surfside on Thursday. That as the president made a trip to Wisconsin today to promote his bipartisan infrastructure deal. Calling it a generational investment. One that proves democracy still works.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This deal isn't just the some of its parts. It's a signal to ourselves and to the world that American democracy can come through and deliver for all our people. We can be united.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): But that deal is not really at the finish line yet and still has more to go. That as Joe Biden's former boss is speaking out today warning about the dangers of the spread of misinformation in America that can agree on basic facts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: But to see not only a riot in the capitol around what historically had been a routine process of certifying an election but to know that one of our two major political parties, a strong majority of people in those parties actually believed that in a falsehood about those election results. The degree to which misinformation is now disseminated at warp speed in coordinated ways that we haven't seen before.

And that the guardrails I thought were in place around many of our Democratic institutions really depend on the two parties agreeing to those ground rules those guardrails. And that one of them right now doesn't seem as committed to them as in previous generations and that worries me. And I think we should all be worried.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): The former president is right. We should all be worried. At this point if you have been seeing the impact of misinformation from the pandemic to the insurrection, then you haven't been paying attention really. We've seen what happens when misinformation is being spread and people who know about it, who know it's all lies, those people do nothing until it's too late. People like the then attorney general who went along with the big lie for months,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, FORMER UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: If I found something, you know, I had no motive to suppress it. But my suspicion all the way along was that there was nothing there. It was all (muted).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): He knew, he knew it was B.S. He knew the then present was spreading the big lie. And he let it happen. We've seen what happens when lies spread at warp speed. We've seen violent rioters stormed the seat of our government. We've seen the gallows. We've heard them chanting. Hang Mike Pence. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): We have seen what happens when our elected representatives try to whitewash what we all saw with our own eyes. When they doubled down on the lies. Even though their own lives were in danger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ANDREW CLYDE (R-GA): There was no insurrection and to call it an insurrection in my opinion is a bold face lie.

UNKNOWN: Outright propaganda and lies are being used to unleash the national security state against law-abiding U.S. citizens especially Trump voters. As a result, the DOJ is harassing -- harassing peaceful patriots across the country.

REP. JODY HICE (R-GA): It was Trump supporters who lost their lives that day, not Trump supporters who were taking the lives of others.

[22:09:58]

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R-TX): There had been things worse than people without any firearms coming into a building.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): I mean, they should be ashamed of themselves. But yet they have no shame. We've heard from the American heroes who risk their lives to defend that capitol. We've heard what they think when they hear elected representatives spreading lies like that and the misinformation about that terrible day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FANONE, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: I'm not a politician. I'm not an elected official. I don't expect anybody to give two shits about my opinions. But I will say this. You know, those are lies and peddling that bullshit is an assault on every officer that fought to defend the capitol. It's disgraceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): And that is indeed why that vote tomorrow to establish a select commit to investigate January 6th is so important. Americans need to know the truth about what happened on one of the worst days in this country's history. That's right. One of the worst days in this country.

We can't let Republican deniers sweep that truth under the rug like they tried to do when they refuse to even debate an independent panel. And now GOP leadership is claiming the select committee will be partisan. You know what? You had your chance. You did. You had your chance to vote for an independent commission and guess what? You didn't want the truth to come out.

The American people can't handle the truth. So stop whitewashing. Stop misinforming. Stop upholding. Start upholding your oaths, I should say, and do your damn jobs.

So next, we're going to go to Florida where the search and rescue mission is going on around the clock right now and the mayor of Surfside says they're not giving up hope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR CHARLES BURKETT, SURFSIDE, FLORIDA: A woman was pulled from the ruins of a factory in Bangladesh 17 days after it collapsed. So, I think as the governor said earlier, nobody -- and the lieutenant governor, nobody is giving up hope here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): Tonight, the death toll from the catastrophic condo collapse in Florida rising to 12. Local officials say 149 people still unaccounted for. And six days after the collapse, full search and rescue operations continuing at this hour, but we're also learning there were plenty of warning signs about the building's physical condition.

I want to bring in now Mayor Charles Burkett of Surfside, Florida. Mayor, thank you so much. How are you doing?

BURKETT: Happy to be here. A little tired.

LEMON: Yes. I can only imagine. So, again, we really appreciate that you're here.

I know rescue teams are painstakingly searching through the rubble and yet the total number of people unaccounted for remains still high at 149. Now it doesn't mean the 149 people are there. Just unaccounted for. You don't know if they were in the building at the time or it was supposed to be there, or what have you. We just don't know.

BURKETT: That's true.

LEMON: We're at the end of six days of day six, you say no one is giving up hope but are you worried, though, that it may be false hope for these families after so many days?

BURKETT: I'm not really worried it would be false hope. I think that we have an obligation and a duty to do everything we possibly can to bring those people out of the rubble and reunited them with their family. And I think that, you know, sort of ring our hands about, you know, whether -- you know, whether that's right or wrong, I think that's not productive.

I think the only thing to do is to focus on bringing them out now and focus on that for the next day and the next day and next day until they're all out.

LEMON: Amen. You said right from the beginning that buildings don't just fall, they don't just fall down in America. So, when you see this letter sent, this is just a few months ago warning that damage in the building had gotten significantly worse since the 2018 inspection, were these warnings not taken seriously?

BURKETT: They obviously weren't taken seriously. And I think, you know, I think moreover, you know, I'll -- I'll venture to bet that no one ever thought that if the maintenance wasn't done on these buildings that they wouldn't fall down like that but I'm sure that we'll never going to think that again.

LEMON: There's so much going -- listen, we don't know, right? We don't know. I think the main thing we don't know is, you know, we have the inspection and whatever people can say, it looks like the metal was rusting and the concrete, you know, was damaged and all of that.

BURKETT: Right.

LEMON: But we don't know what's going on beneath the surface there if there is -- what kind of erosion there could possibly be. You have hurricanes. You've got, you know, erosion, all kinds of things happening beneath the building. That's certainly a huge factor and it is an unknown at this point.

BURKETT: It really is and I think that, you know, that is one thing, one of many that the engineers are going to look at. They are going to look at what the condition of the pilings were in because those pilings are the legs that hold the building up and if those legs are weakened for any reason, that presents a gigantic problem. And as we could see something gave way from the bottom and I think that's going to be one of the first places they're going to look.

LEMON: There was construction next door that had recently been completed. Any concerns about that?

BURKETT: Yes, you know, I've got concerns about everything. I mean, but, you know, construction next to existing buildings is quite typical. It's not unusual. I know that the units in that building, the owners reported lots of vibration. I think we all heard that. I'm not sure if that's unusual, either, but I'm going to be listening very carefully to what the engineers have to say about that.

I know the Dade County Mayor, Cava, said that she's convening tomorrow, I believe it is, a meeting with state federal and local officials to go over an immediate checklist for buildings in the area, put together a prescription for people to go through their buildings to ensure minimum safety standards and I support that.

[22:20:09] LEMON: The president of the United States, Joe Biden planning to visit Surfside on Thursday and going to visit with families and first responders. Are you planning to meet with him and what do you hope to hear?

BURKETT: I'm looking forward to thanking him for calling me early in this crisis. I'm looking forward to thanking him for cutting the red tape, and I'm looking forward to thanking him for making all of the resources available that he did.

You know, I'm going to tell him that we don't have a resource problem anymore but we just have a luck problem. We just got to start getting a little more lucky in pulling people out of the rubble.

LEMON: Just for transparency, I want to tell viewers at home, you said that there's a -- we were talking in the break, you're going to get a little sleep, as much as you can and you're back at it first thing tomorrow.

BURKETT: Six o'clock.

LEMON: Mayor, thank you. I really appreciate your time and the great work you're doing. Thanks for coming in.

BURKETT: I appreciate you getting the word out. Thank you very much.

LEMON: Thank you.

So just months ago the Champlain Towers board president sending a letter saying that the deterioration is accelerating, the damages has gotten significantly worse, extensive roof repairs are needed. I'm going to speak with someone who owns a condo in that tower about what he saw and what they were told.

[22:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): Tonight, a structural engineer hired by the city of Surfside, Florida telling CNN he and his colleagues are looking for what he calls the trigger event that brought the tower down, also saying the investigation will take a long time and that engineers will look at all possible scenarios for what may have caused the collapse.

John Turis joins me now. He is an owner at a condo in the condo building but he wasn't there. He was here in New York. His unit is still standing but everything around it is gone.

John, thank you. I'm so sorry about your neighbors and your friends there. But we appreciate you joining us this evening. You've had this condo for, what, 16 years now? You were down there when you --

(CROSSTALK)

JOHN TURIS, CHAMPLAIN TOWERS CONDO OWNER: Sixteen years --

LEMON: Yes? I'm sorry?

TURIS: Sixteen years in May.

LEMON: You were down there when you got the April letter from the condo board talking about the damage to the building accelerating and explaining that there was going to be a $15 million assessment. Was it clear to you between the letter and what you had seen firsthand that the building was in bad shape? What did you think?

TURIS: Yes, I really thought the building was in bad shape. I mean, on New Year's Eve of 2018 it was brought to my, it was like attention by somebody that said it was a contractor, he showed me structural cracks on my side of the building. He blamed it on the building next door when they were putting pilings in.

He showed me that there were some cracks on the side wall, there was on the side of the pool and he was mapping this out for me in the sand. It was New Year's Eve and that was the last time I saw this guy.

LEMON: He said -- he said it was a building next door. This is -- listen, this is what he believes this is not been investigated or confirmed or anything but because of the pilings next door that he believes that it undermined the structural integrity of that building?

TURIS: Well, at that time on December 31st, 2018, that was his spin on it and when we were there for the week and a half for the holiday weekend, every time these guys would pound, we had shaking because I was right next to it because my unit is in the nine line and that was directly next to the where they were putting up that building next door. It was in front -- it was behind the pool.

But when we got there on April 17th, the first thing we saw was an envelope under my door and that was the envelope that everybody is talking about with the assessment and when I went to the manager and I says what's this about? He says well, your share is $115,000. You can either pay now up front or take 15 years at $948 a month to pay off the loan.

LEMON: Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

TURIS: It was (Inaudible).

LEMON: Yes. That's a big assessment. That is a big assessment.

TURIS: Very big.

LEMON: Yes.

TURIS: That $948 plus the $850 a month in maintenance, I had no mortgage but I told the guy this is like having a mortgage.

LEMON: Yes, it is. Yes. And for some people in America as you know that's like having a number of different mortgages. A couple different mortgages. Let me ask you, so the garage in the building is underground, right?

TURIS: Yes.

LEMON: OK. Now was there always standing water? Was there always water in the garage from the time that you were there or something that was recent?

TURIS: I would say the last 10 or 12 years I always noticed there was water. I was telling somebody that there were big fans from like years ago that you haven't seen were going 24 hours a day. I assume it was to have the place dried, but that was going on for a long time.

So, I mean, I parked my car and half the time I came down it was always wet. You know, there was these pipes leaking. The ceiling was leaking. There was water on the floor. These maintenance guys are running around trying to fix it but they were just maintenance guys.

LEMON: Yes.

TURIS: I'm not sure they even know where this water was coming from.

LEMON: Yes. So that was happening for step years even before the construction next door that that was happening?

TURIS: Correct.

LEMON: Yes, OK. You say there was a constant turnover with the condo board and there was friction over how to deal with everything. Do you think that contributed to things not getting fixed sooner?

TURIS: Absolutely. It was almost like, you know, I'm here from New York and every -- it was condo board here seems to be very strict. The condo boards down in Florida they don't seem to be as strict as here. I'm not quite sure why. But I know I only went to --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: There is no place -- there is no place in America that's as strict as New York City condo boards, John. You know that.

TURIS: Well.

LEMON: And maybe that's a good thing now that we're thinking about it.

TURIS: Exactly. Because I went to, there was one meeting and one meeting only, I went to and everyone was yelling and screaming at everybody and I just said I don't know, this is not for me.

LEMON: Yes.

[22:30:01]

TURIS: You know, I say let me just pay my maintenance and keep my mouth shut and just go about my business and go down seven, eight times a year and enjoy myself.

LEMON: Yes. TURIS: But it was a constant turnover every time I went down there was either a new manager, there was always somebody new, it was like what happened to what's his name, you know?

LEMON: Yes. What happened to what's his name? What do you mean?

TURIS: Well, when you go down and you see somebody who you know and then you come back and you vaguely remember who the guy was and so you just used to kid around and say I'll never forget what's his name?

LEMON: What's his name. Got it. Got it. Got it. OK. Now I get what you're saying. One real -- one quick question before you go, do you think that other folks, other buildings in the area should be concerned about -- or do you think this was specific just to that building?

TURIS: I really don't know. I mean, I would think because there was three Champlain Tower buildings and they were all built around the same time, I've never been in any of these other buildings. I mean, from the -- it was outside they seem to be -- it was more up to date than what we had but I couldn't tell. I mean, I never went inside these buildings. But from the outside, there was more improvements done there than was being done in our building.

LEMON: Did you lose anyone you know that's unaccounted for or --

TURIS: I lost a lot of people. There was a lady who is right across from me in 411. I used to talk to her and when I see these photos, the terrace is still standing, she's not there. There was this little girl Emma, then whenever I used to walk my dog she would come running out of the pool and grab my dog and hug him. And I understand they just found her father and I'm afraid what happened to her, her sister and mother. She is four years old. I mean, that's not right.

LEMON: John, thank you so much. I'm so sorry and I hear your wife or someone is in the background talking to you as well, so give my regards. Thank you so much.

TURIS: Thank you very much.

LEMON: Thank you. President Joe Biden is trying to get a deal across the finish line but is he going about it all wrong? John Kasich weighs in. He's next.

[22:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): House Republicans not whipping tomorrow's vote to establish the select House committee to investigate the capitol insurrection. However, and this is a big however, the office of congressman Steve Scalise will send GOP members a leadership recommendation to vote no. Will any Republicans vote for the committee?

Here with me now CNN's senior commentator, John Kasich. Hi, John. How are you?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don, you know, all of these discussions on politics and I know you agree with this seem so trite when you think about what's happening in Miami. You know, people waiting, people grieving, it's just -- and everybody can relate to this, right? We all go into buildings. We all have loved ones that, you know, one minute they're fine and we worry what's will happen the next minute. It's just a terrible situation.

LEMON: It is a terrible situation but you know what? This is what happens when people, as you heard, the man John Turis who owns a condominium in the building, he says according to him, no one could ever agree on anything. Everybody was talking over each other. And that's what's happening in Washington now. Nobody is listening, everyone is talking at each other instead of with each other.

Look, Republicans could have an independent bipartisan commission but Republicans sabotaged it from get-go, so now have they forfeited the right to complain about this one that the select one that they're trying to come up with?

KASICH: I think they're going to complain. The interesting twist on this as I saw were Nancy Pelosi was actually thinking about appointing a Republican to the commission. I don't know what they're going to do. Obviously, the whole commission should have been approved from get-go and, you know, Pelosi made it clear, if this doesn't get approved, we're going to get to the bottom of this, and I'll create a select committee.

So, there was an effort to try to make it a bipartisan committee and bipartisan investigation, which should have occurred and, you know, the fact that the Republicans are getting exactly what they asked for.

LEMON: Yes. Well, and Steve Scalise said he wants people to vote no. Listen, I just want to read, this is an excerpt from an article by John Kraushaar at the -- Kraushaar at The National Review. OK? And it's titled "Biden is blowing a golden political opportunity."

And he writes, he said, "President Biden had an opportunity this week to lead his party back to a productive political path by calling out the Democrats progressive excesses speaking on the issue of rising crime and holding the cards to cut a bipartisan deal on infrastructure. He could have publicly broken away from the radical defund the police crowd and challenge voices in his own party who oppose any compromise on spending legislation."

Now, listen, I get the crux of it and I want to ask you the question but what he's actually saying, his premise is not true. Joe Biden is not a defund the police person. This is not a tenet of the Democratic Party. It's not the position of the party. It's not Joe Biden's position. It's not Barack Obama's position. It's not any political leader I had on.

Even when I had Ayanna Pressley on last week, she wouldn't even embrace defund the police. So, the whole idea of Biden breaking away from the defund the police crowd that is a false premise in this. So, listen, I know that you had thought that this infrastructure deal could come together and it's still on track but are you concerned about the way Biden is handling this?

KASICH: Well, first of all, Don, I think the gentleman's point on this is the police need bucked up a little bit in this country. Now we know we need police reform. We need better training. But I got to tell you, our law enforcement people feel they're not getting the support. And I think that Joe Biden in very clear terms should have said we're for the police. And all this discussion about defunding or cutting departments, they did cut a bunch of departments --

(CROSSTALK)

[22:40:05]

LEMON: John, he has said that.

KASICH: Now they are rushing back.

LEMON: He has said he's for the police.

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: He said that numerous times.

KASICH: Don, the point of the story, look, I agree with them. I don't think he's been very strong about that. I don't think he's very tough on crime. He's not been as tough as Eric Adams who might end up being the mayor of New York.

In terms of this, in terms of the infrastructure deal, one minute he says he has a deal and the next minute he says, no, but it's tied to another deal. I think maybe his compass has been a little bit misplaced, Don. I've been disappointed in what I've seen.

And look, he ran as a guy to bring us together. And he ran as a guy to not try to promote some sort of extreme agenda and I think he should embrace this infrastructure deal, he he should negotiate. There's other parts of this big deal that has merit and he ought to sit down with Republicans and give a little bit and they should give a little just like they have on infrastructure.

LEMON: So, one day because I have to go, one more thing, this is -- we're talking about this policing bill. The last day in June, the second deadline to get a policing bill done. The first was the anniversary of George Floyd's killing. CNN is reporting that there is a new timeline that goes through August.

Is this a bad sign for all of the other agenda issues for Joe Biden that this policing deal is not actually coming through in a way that he wanted it?

KASICH: I think he should weigh in and make sure that we get a deal, and Don, what this is all about is training. You talked -- you know this. You talk to law enforcement people. A lot of them are leaving, retiring, quitting and that doesn't mean we don't need cleanup with police in many cases -- in some cases and that gets down to training and holding them accountable.

And so, I think he ought to really put his ore in the water on this and let's get a police bill done so that police can continue to do their job, and we also are in a position of holding those accountable who have abused their position. So, I think Biden needs to be stronger on this. That's my view.

LEMON: All right. Thank you very much. That's why we have you here for your view. John, thank you. I appreciate it. I'll see you next time.

KASICH: All right, Don, thank you.

LEMON: The most populous county in the country says mask up, all because of a more contagious variant that now makes up 26 percent of cases in the U.S. Dr. Anthony Fauci is here to tell us what he recommends. That's next.

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LEMON (on camera): New concerns able the spread of a more dangerous and transmissible strain of the coronavirus, it's called the Delta variant is now in nearly every U.S. state making up more than 26 percent of cases in the country. The rapid spread prompting officials in Los Angeles County to recommend masks inside even if you've been vaccinated.

It's an important night to speak with the country's top infectious disease expert none other than Dr. Anthony Fauci. Doctor, thank you. So glad you're here to discuss this. I appreciate it.

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Thank you, Don. Good to be with you.

LEMON: So, we have been told by Moderna, that both, I should say, that Moderna and the Pfizer vaccines work against these new strains, this new strain like the Delta variant, so why are places like L.A. County recommending masks indoors again even if you've been vaccinated?

FAUCI: Well, I think the -- well, first of all, the CDC recommendation remains the way it is that if you are vaccinated and you are in the situation where you know you're protected against Delta by about 88 percent against symptomatic disease and by over 90 percent against severe disease, that for the most part you can feel safe without a mask indoor or outdoor.

You're going to find some local groups understandably who might have a degree of viral dynamics that they want to be doubly sure and just do that. But from the standpoint of the country as a whole, we should feel good about that. Now there are going to be some people and they may be people who just don't really want to take any kind of a risk because remember, not every vaccine, the two mRNA vaccines, they are about 88 percent effective against clinical disease and over 90 percent effective against severe disease. So, no vaccine is a 100 percent effective. So, I believe there are going to be states and maybe cities and counties who may on their own say, you know, the better part of valor (Ph) is to be more cautious. But as a general recommendation, the CDC feels that we should keep things the way they are. If you're vaccinated, you're safe.

It is highly unlikely you're going to get infected, certainly very unlikely that you're going to get seriously ill if you do get infected so they have not changed the original recommendation.

LEMON: OK. So, help me understand this. You said that they're not changing. You don't think the mask guidance will change. So, is L.A. County going against the CDC guidance or is it in your, what you're saying they're just being overly cautious in an abundance of caution?

FAUCI: Yes, you know, Don, -- you know, Don, I don't think we should be thinking of going against the guidance. I think there is a degree and there should be a degree of flexibility and discretion distributed throughout the country.

There will be some regions who feel given the dynamics within their state, their city, their county that they just want to be extra especially careful. They want to go that extra mile of care. You got to separate what the broader recommendations are and there will be individual variability. And Don, that's fine. There is no -- there is nothing about that that's bad. The country looks for the broader recommendation and some will follow it exactly and some will adhere from it a bit.

LEMON: Got it.

FAUCI: And I think that kind of flexibility is OK.

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LEMON: All right. I got it. I got it. I understand now. So, listen, The Wall Street Journal is reporting about half of those infected with this Delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated. What's going on with that, doctor?

FAUCI: Yes, be careful. You got to know what the denominator is, Don. Because if you have a very, very high you're going to get people infected because a percentage of the population is vaccinated you are going to get people infected.

Because as I mentioned, it's 88 percent effective against clinical disease and probably less against asymptomatic disease. So, when you have the majority of the population vaccinated, when you have infections, it's going to look like, wow, 50 percent of the infections were vaccinated. That doesn't mean the vaccine is losing its efficacy.

It just means the denominator of vaccinated people is so large that when there are going to be infections they likely will be among vaccinated people. But you're still having a vaccine that's 88 percent effective against clinical disease and 98 plus percent effective against severe disease. LEMON: How effective are each of the three vaccines in the United

States against this Delta variant? I don't know if you can tell us specifically. And do you remain certain that more contagious -- that the more contagious variant doesn't create a viral load enough to infect people?

FAUCI: Well, first of all, the three that are being used are the two mRNA, mRNA vaccines, the Moderna and the Pfizer. Those are very likely going to be around 88 percent against clinically apparent disease and a bit above 90 percent effective against severe disease.

J&J we don't have formal data yet to say that they're in that high category, but there's circumstantial evidence that suggests it will be OK because the J&J vaccine when it was tested against variants that were in Southern Africa, or in South Africa did really quite well against a variant that is probably as bad or even worse in many respects than the Delta variant.

Also, and probably the most important explanation, Don, is that the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is used in the context of the Delta variant, was shown with two doses of the AZ to be about 88 percent effective. The vaccine of J&J is just about the same type of vaccine. It's the same type of a platform, an anti-virus vector as the AZ.

So, you can make a reasonable assumption that if the AZ is good against the Delta, the J&J even though you haven't formally proved it is highly likely going to be just as good against the Delta variant.

LEMON: OK, so I was kind of joking with some guys as we were walking to work today and we were talking about the Delta variant. And I said, well, I'm just going to get another Pfizer shot and then I'll be doubly vaccinated, you know, just kind of -- but in all seriousness, is there some truth to that? Or people who take the -- who have taken the J&J vaccine might they need a booster, might some of us need a booster for this Delta variant?

FAUCI: Don, that's a great question. And in fact, some people are doing that. Some very competent physicians, health care providers are recommending that. The problem is at this point in time we don't have formal scientific evidence or data to say that it's safe and effective.

From the standpoint of what we know about these vaccines it is likely that it is. It's likely that it's safe and it's likely that it's going to give a boost. But in order to get a formal recommendation from a regulatory agency like FDA or a public health agency like CDC you want to have data in a clinical trial, and we don't have that yet. And that's the reason you're not seeing formal recommendations about boosting mRNA super imposed upon a J&J.

LEMON: OK, doctor, I want you to standby because we're going to take a quick break. We're going to have more from Dr. Anthony Fauci right after this.

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LEMON (on camera): Back now with Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

Doctor, let's talk about young people now. These hot spots in Missouri, younger people are being hospitalized much more than we saw during the winter surge. Do people need to rethink the dangers of this virus for children now that this Delta variant is here and kids under 12 have no protection since they can't be vaccinated yet?

FAUCI: Don, you hit it right on the head. That's exactly what we need to be concerned about. We're seeing more and more younger people getting infected and even getting significantly ill. Still the statistics tell you that it's much more likely for an elderly person or someone with an underlying disease to get seriously ill.

But this vaccine, this virus -- excuse me -- infects young people. Clearly, when you look at the infection rate among young people in a virus that we've been dealing with prior to the Delta, it looks like it's considerably more.

One of the reasons for that is we know as a fact, not conjecture but as a fact that this virus spreads more efficiently from person to person. And it also leads to more severe disease. So it is not surprising that we're seeing more younger people not only getting infected but getting seriously ill.

LEMON: Dr. Fauci, should vaccinated parents feel confident that they can't get a low-level infection with the Delta variant and potentially pass it to their kids?

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FAUCI: No. Actually, it is.