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Don Lemon Tonight

Alec Baldwin Accidentally Killed His Staff; Some Republicans Politicized Horrific Accident; Guns Suited For Movie Sets; Someone Must Be Held Accountable; President Biden Not Losing Hope. Aired 10- 11p ET

Aired October 22, 2021 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): All, right let's get right to DON LEMON TONIGHT with its big star, D. Lemon.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I can't imagine how this family feels. The lady who was killed on the set and how the man's family feels who's in the hospital, and Alec Baldwin. I mean, it's just a tragedy, a tragedy all the way around.

CUOMO: And it should have never happened.

LEMON: Yes. Think about the history of the movie business and how, I mean, it's only happened this is the second time. There was a third one but Jon-Erik Hexum, remember in the 80s?

CUOMO: Yes.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: But he put a gun up against his head --

LEMON: Right. Right.

CUOMO: -- and the blast ability and burn ability --

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: -- of a blank was enough to cause him a mortal wound. Brandon Lee this is the same thing.

LEMON: I saw his sister on your show.

CUOMO: Somebody confused the ammo. Now, look, let's start with what's obvious. There is no reason for bullets on a movie set.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: It's make-believe. But they are real guns. And sometimes people use them. And forget about murderous intentions. They use them. They target practice, they do whatever they do. Now, you have an issue with the custody and the chain of custody and the responsibility of the ammunition.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Somehow a real bullet got into a movie set weapon.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: The other issue that I think people have to be careful about is, well, you are trained as our expert said, who is also former homicide detective. You never point a weapon even in the movies at somebody else. You don't do it. Well, we don't know that Alec Baldwin did that.

LEMON: And we don't know the circumstances.

CUOMO: No.

LEMON: Because it could've been blocking and said we want you to point here.

CUOMO: We know it was blocking.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: Because he was rehearsing a scene, there was no other actor.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: He was working with the DP and the director, setting up the shot. Maybe he was pointing it directly at the lens, and who is standing next to the camera.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Behind the lens, yes.

CUOMO: So, that to me, there's a lot of people racing down the road of that degree of negligence about where he was pointing the gun. I don't think we have any reason --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: To believe that.

CUOMO: -- to believe that. And we have a reason to not believe it.

LEMON: I don't think we have any reason to go down. We definitely don't have a reason for people to be trying to capitalize on it politically which I've seen which I think is just -- in this case, equally as awful as --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Politicians are using it who don't like Alec Baldwin.

LEMON: -- as Colin Powell. CUOMO: I'll tell you what. I didn't understand any reason in any of the early media accounts about this to talk about this guy. And by the way, it's not like he's my best buddy, he's like Don to me something like that. I'm actually friends with his brother. Not him.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: But --

LEMON: I'm friends with Alec and his wife Hilaria. I know them, yes.

CUOMO: I'm just saying the idea that, in describing that this is Alec Baldwin, like people don't know who he is, you have to talk about his run-ins with police?

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: In the -- in 2014?

LEMON: We don't have to go there.

CUOMO: Why would you suggest that as a journalist?

LEMON: Yes, I agree. I agree. I got --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: There's a lot wrong in this society, brother, and somehow a real bullet got into that gun and they are going to have to figure out how.

LEMON: I got to get to it. We are going to talk about the warrant. We also have a weapons expert as well, a weapons master coming up to explain to us what could possibly have happened.

Thank you. I love. I'll see you this weekend.

CUOMO: Lord willing

LEMON: This is DON LEMON TONIGHT.

And of course, we have the breaking news that we're talking about. On the investigation of that horrible tragedy on Alec Baldwin's movie set where authorities say the actor fired a prop gun killing the director of photography, Alina Hutchins. I mean, and injuring the director Joel Souza.

But can you imagine? Can you imagine how everyone involved here feels? Everyone. There is no need right now to run down the road of what could or should and start to capitalize on it or make jokes about it. It's just awful. It's a tragedy. So, stop it if you're doing that.

So, as I said, we have the affidavit for a search warrant obtained by our affiliate KOAT, quote, and what it says really is stunning, and I quote, "one of the prop guns was then grabbed by the assistant director, Dave Halls, and he took it to the actor identified as Alec Baldwin who was inside of the structure.

As the assistant director Dave Halls handed the gun to Alec, to actor Alec Baldwin, Dave Halls yelled cold gun, indicating the prop gun did not have any live rounds, the prop gun was fired by the actor Alec Baldwin. Striking the cinematographer identified as Alina Hutchins and Joel Souza, director, who is behind the cinematographer, Alina Hutchins.

[22:04:56]

Affiant later learned the assistant director Dave Halls did not know live rounds were in the prop gun when he had given the prop gun to actor Alec Baldwin."

And a chilling 911 call is out tonight as well. And it reveals more details of what happened in the frantic moments right after that shooting.

(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Santa Fe Fire and EMS, what's the location of the emergency?

UNKNOWN: Bonanza Creek ranch, two people have been accidently shot on a movie set by a prop gun. We need help immediately. Bonanza Creek Ranch, come on.

UNKNOWN: Stay on the phone with me, we're going to get some help, OK. Don't hang up. OK. Hold on just one second. So was it loaded with a real bullet or --

(CROSSTALK)

UNKNOWN: We don't -- I don't -- I cannot tell you that.

UNKNOWN: OK.

UNKNOWN: We have two injuries from a movie gun -- shot.

UNKNOWN: OK. We're getting them out there already, just stay on the phone with me. OK.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, OK. No, no, no, I'm a script supervisor (Inaudible).

UNKNOWN: How many people were injured?

UNKNOWN: Two, that I know of. I was sitting, we were rehearsing and it went off, and I ran out, we all ran out. They were double over the AD, and the camera woman and the director. They're clearing the road back. We're back on the -- we're back in the town (Inaudible) we're back in the western town.

UNKNOWN: Is there any serious bleeding?

UNKNOWN: I don't know. I ran out of the building, but we need (Inaudible) (CROSSTALK)

UNKNOWN: OK, that's fine. I still have to go through these ok? Are they completely alert?

UNKNOWN: We don't know, I can't tell.

(END VOICE CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, investigators will search the property on a ranch in New Mexico this weekend where the movie "Rust" was being filmed. The New Mexico occupational health and safety burro says it's also investigating this incident.

And the L.A. Times and others reporting tonight that prior to the shooting several crew members quit the movie due to concerns over conditions and safety issues including gun safety procedures.

Now Alec Baldwin breaking his silence today saying that he is shocked and saddened by the tragic accident and is fully cooperating with police. The D.A. saying it is unclear whether charges will be filed but not the first incident someone has been killed by what were supposed to be harmless guns on a movie set.

Actor Brandon Lee, you've seen it in Chris has reported, he spoke with his sister, the son of Bruce Lee was killed while filming the final scenes of the movie "The Crow," that was in 1993 after being shot with a prop gun that was later found to have been improperly loaded. Alec Baldwin's co-star Jensen Ackles talked about his gun training on the set of "Rust" just last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENSEN ACKLES, ACTOR: They had me pick my gun, they're like, all right, what gun would you like? I was like, I don't know, the armor was like you have gun experience?

What's a gun? And I was like, a little. And she's like OK, well, this is how you load it. This is how we check it and make sure it's safe. She's like OK, I'm going to put some blanks in there, I don't want to just go and fire off a couple rounds towards the hill. And I was like, OK. So, I put the belt on and put the gun in there and I walked out and she's like, just make sure that you pull the hammer all the way back and you aim at your target.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, there are really so many questions about what happened on that movie set and we're bringing in experts tonight to break it all down. You want to hear from the gentleman that we're going to hear from shortly is amazing when it comes to this. Knows everything about this and what could have gone wrong. What did go wrong? What's the safety protocol? What's supposed to happen? Was there a live gun onset? Who is responsible?

I mean, we have an expert coming up, again, going to show us how prop guns should be handled and in the face of this tragedy, all right, because that's what it is, a terrible tragedy.

Why are some on the right tweeting about it so grotesquely? I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of showing that tweet. But J.D. Vance is a Republican Senate candidate used the death of Alina Hutchins to suck up to the president, or the former president, calling for him to be let back on Twitter because he says we need Alec Baldwin tweets. The last thing we need.

And then there is Lauren Boebert and her shameless tweet saying if Alec Baldwin were a conservative celebrity, people would be calling for his head.

A woman is dead. The last thing we need is more disgusting mean- spirited tweets. Who does that really? I mean, who does that? No shame. No humanity. No empathy. Just like what they did with Colin Powell trying to use his death to raise questions about vaccines capitalizing on tragedy. Capitalizing on tragedy. Capitalizing on tragedy.

[22:09:52]

The faith and family values crowd. Really? Disgraceful. Whatever happened to empathy? Whatever happened to being a human being? So much for Christians, right? As they say. Family values.

Let's bring in now Marc Malkin, senior editor at Variety. Mark, thank you so much. I really appreciate you joining us this evening. So the circumstances here are just awful shocking. Our affiliate KOAT obtained the warrant, it describes how an assistant director handed out Baldwin that gun, one of three prop guns that had been outside on a great cart and yelled cold gun, which was meant to indicate that there were no live rounds in it.

The assistant director says that he didn't know live rounds were in the gun, that's according to an affidavit given as part of a search warrant. What else -- what else are you hearing here? What went wrong?

MARC MALKIN, SENIOR EDITOR, VARIETY: What went wrong was, you know, the chain of who is responsible for this? For someone to say who is responsible for the gun they didn't know that there was live ammunition in the gun? You have to check the gun before you hand it to the actor.

The other question is why was there live ammunition in the gun? You know, the big misnomer here is prop gun, I think a lot of people think that means a toy gun, that it doesn't actually work, that it can't actually hurt you or it only shoots rubber bullets.

It's a real gun. What's prop about it is the gun powder that's in it and the power that that gun powder gives the gun. So, I think there are so many questions here of who was training to who is handling that gun and where was that gun before it was handed to Alec Baldwin?

LEMON: You know, they're out in the desert. And I mean, is it possible, I guess, it is that some people -- listen I don't want to speculate or go too far field but people were using it as target practice or using it to as, you know, live rounds to shoot target practice and maybe forget something in there? I don't know.

MALKIN: I mean, obviously, someone put a live round in there for whatever reason, I don't know like you said, target practice. Did they go hunting? Were they, you know, rehearsing? Why they would be rehearsing with live ammunition, I don't know.

But obviously someone, you know, a human being put live ammunition in a gun that should not have had live ammunition and then they told the actor Alec Baldwin it's safe, it's cold, you're OK shooting this prop gun.

LEMON: The Los Angeles Times and other media reports that crew members, that they quit production due to conditions in safety concerns including gun safety protocols. And listen, everything is being investigated. You have these reports out there. If that is indeed, so does that sound like a red flag to you? Is that a big red flag?

MALKIN: That is -- there are a lot of red flags about this story especially coming off of the tension that just happened between IATSE, which is the guild that represents all of the people behind the camera, all of the production people whose job it is to take care of all of these things to hear that there was safety concerns right after this guild threatened to -- it came very close to shutting down Hollywood from the strike because of safety concerns. So right here is an example.

Now, what people need to understand is that this was not a big production. This wasn't a Disney movie. It's not a Paramount movie or Warner Brothers. This is a small independent scrappy that obviously had a lot of issues going into it, lot of issues just hours before this gun was fired.

LEMON: Yes, you talked about IATSE and other groups. So, are unions reacting tonight? Are they saying anything?

MALKIN: Unions reacted right away. They issued statement saying that they understand that the prop master whomever was responsible for this gun was not a union member, that there were issues onset between union members and the production.

So, this is -- what we're going to see, unfortunately, in all of this tragedy we're also going to see a lot of lawsuits there is going to be a lot of legal issues here, insurance companies. All of the -- there is a lot of financers on this movie because it is a small independent production, you get a lot of different companies feeding money into it.

LEMON: Yes.

MALKIN: You know, and of course, we know Alec Baldwin who are a producer on the film.

LEMON: Yes. I want to put up these photographs of Alec Baldwin taken after the incident. He appears obviously, he is distraught. I mean, who wouldn't be. Tell us more about what you're hearing from Alec. MALKIN: You know, what we're hearing from him were his tweets that

said he's in touch with her family, that he -- you know, there are no words to describe how he's feeling and let's be honest. Like you said before, people are politicizing this. There's no -- there is no politics in this. This is Hollywood movie making. It was make-believe. It was pretend that went really bad.

I can't imagine what's going through his mind. I know that people on the set are in shock. The guilds are bringing in people to talk to the people who are on set who witnessed this. All they were going to was to witness a rehearsal to see them block some shots and then they witnessed the most unthinkable tragedy.

[22:14:58]

LEMON: Alina Hutchins, her agency describes her as a ray of light. What more can you tell us about her? She has a husband and son.

MALKIN: And what's wonderful is, you know, this was a second career for her. She started off as a journalist, an investigative journalist. She is from the Ukraine. She is a graduate at AFI. We just reported, Variety, that AFI has set up a scholarship for other women cinematographers in her name already so you can start donating to that.

And the thing that we're getting from her friends and her colleagues is that she loved what she did. That she would do anything for that great shot. That she -- you look on her Instagram and she's throwing beautiful photos of sunsets and all the actors in costumes. She obviously has this wonderful eye. It's all visual for a cinematographer. All you're hearing are these warm and wonderful memories of her and how dedicated she was to the profession. And again, I just keep going back to the words of unthinkable tragedy.

LEMON: Yes. She put out on social media as I was going through our social media about the great thing about working in the desert is that you get to ride horses in your off time and it just seems to be just an amazing personality and a great person according to everyone who knew her and worked with her.

Marc, thank you so much. I really appreciate you joining us. If you get any information, please let us know, OK.

MALKIN: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Thank you very much. So here is the question that everybody is asking tonight and that is how could something like this happen? I know a lot of people in the movie business and they're stunned. They don't know how this can happen on any set that they've been. The protocols are so tight. How could this happen?

Well, I'm going to bring in an expert who is going to demonstrate exactly how prop guns should be handle -- handled safely. You don't want to miss it. That's next.

[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): OK. So, the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office obtaining a search warrant to investigate the movie set where Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun killing a cinematographer, wounding the director.

Reports say that several members of the film's crew quit before the incident happened in part because they were concerned that gun safety rules were not being followed. Those are reports now.

So, what went tragically wrong here? Bryan Carpenter is an armor or weapons and -- I should say not or, and weapons master in the film industry and he joins me now. Brian, did I get that right?

BRYAN CARPENTER, ARMORER, WEAPONS MASTER IN THE FILM INDUSTRY: That's correct. That's right.

LEMON: Thank you so much for joining us. OK? I really appreciate it. Because everywhere I go, everyone wants to know whether it's online, whether it's, you know, however, they see me in person, how did this happen? How did this happen? How did a live round end up on set? How did a, you know, live round ends up in a gun.

Now I know that you have industry co-workers working on a movie set nearby who told you -- told you about this incident, they heard the rescue crews and sirens responding to the emergency. In your professional opinion, what do you believe could have happened on this movie set, Bryan?

CARPENTER: You know, from hearing what I've already, you know, been on news and through your reporting and what not, you know, it's really hard to sit back and armchair quarterback something like this but obviously a live round was fired. And if a live round was fired out of that weapon, then obviously it had to be introduced on the set somehow. And there are multitude of safety protocols to prevent that from ever occurring.

There shouldn't be but two types of rounds on a set at any given time that is a blank round and a --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Can you show us?

CARPENTER: Sure. Absolutely. This is a blank round. And this is what one looks like. It has a crimped top and it has gun powder in it and this would probably be about the size of the caliber that was used on a period piece, a western right here.

LEMON: OK.

CARPENTER: That is one type that should be. That's if the director wants to see the actual muzzle flash, they want to see the fire come out and hear the noise, et cetera, et cetera. And depending on what type of flash they want a little one or a big one, depending on the type of that blank cartridge, how much powder it has in it.

The other type of cartridge that you regularly find on a movie set is a dummy round. Now this is the dummy round. Now for all intentional purposes, this looks identical to a real round. The only way that you tell the difference is you, number one, shake it and when you shake it, it has BBs inside of it, and they put the BBs inside of it instead of gun powder so that you can audibly and physically feel that that's a dummy round.

Any other time you look at that, it looks like a real bullet. You get those from reputable prop houses like ISS, someone that makes them in house, they prep them, they make sure there is no propellant in them whatsoever, which there's two type of propellant, one in the cartridge and the primer. Both of those have to be removed so that there is no chance of any detonation.

And then the projectile, which is actually on the top of the bullet, that's what leaves the barrel in a real weapon and fires out of the gun, that is put back in and the BBs are inserted in it.

LEMON: OK.

CARPENTER: You shake it, you can hear it, you can see it. Those have to be checked. And that's for close camera work. When the director wants to see the weapon up close or they want to see an actor loading a weapon or in a period piece like this with the gun that they were probably using if it was pointing directly at camera, they want to see the realism of having the round in the cylinder that you can actually see it on those old guns.

LEMON: Do you have one similar? Or you think this --

(CROSSTALK)

CARPENTER: We do.

LEMON: OK. How is it -- can you show us that? And how --

CARPENTER: Absolutely. So --

LEMON: And what usually happens with this type of -- with a weapon before it gets to set? Can you show us and hold it up, please, higher, if you can?

CARPENTER: Sure. So, this is a period piece. It a weapon that would have been used in any western you would have probably ever seen right here, a very simple gun. The gentleman you had an earlier when he was explaining and describing the fact that some of the modern guns have restrictors in the barrel that keep gas pressure from escaping so that they can function semi auto or fully auto.

[22:24:56]

In modern movies, that's not prevalent on these guns. These guns do not require any restrictor because it's manually operated. In other words, when the actor wants to fire it, they take the hammer, they caulk it back. It rotates the cylinder and it fires. It doesn't require any back pressure to fire.

LEMON: Now how do they check it, Bryan?

CARPENTER: OK. To check it, we would go on set, we would open the side of the latch on the cylinder and because -- due to safety here, we are going to turn it down. We would have the weapon pointed down, we would take a flashlight, shine it up in the barrel inverted and through the cylinder, so you would see that there is no obstruction in the barrel, nothing in the barrel. Then all the cylinders would be checked, you would shine a flashlight in there.

Then once we identify and confirm through two sources, at least on set, which is usually always the actors, anyone that's being -- this weapon is being even pointed any general direction of and then the first A.D., the director sometimes key grip, D.P., depends on what set you're working on and what relationship you have but at least two sources of verification the weapon is cold and at that point in time, the armor would hold onto the weapon until it's time for the scene to be shot.

At that time, you open it, you would load it with the charges, be it either a live -- when I say a live, I mean a blank round or if it's not going to discharge, a dummy round. And then at that point in time, right before the camera rolls, a speed sound, you walk over there and you hand off the weapon to the actor and then call, you know, hot weapon on set, which is repeated on the radio.

LEMON: So, but they said that on this one, they said cold. What did that -- what did that mean? They said they heard the --

CARPENTER: Well, so if you're using -- like one of the misconceptions of most people is that these weapons are props and you know, sometimes I've been on set and they're handling a weapons like a prop. In other words, they treat them like they're a rubber gun or they're a toy gun but they're not. They're 100 percent a functional firearm and if you load a round in, it will fire it just like a regular weapon would.

So, having said that, you know, we -- if it's a weapon that's cold, that means that it is the actual firing weapon with no rounds in it whatsoever. And sometimes an actor wants to use those for rehearsals, for the field, the wait, being able to use the mechanism of the gun and just general look of it and that's OK and acceptable but again, you have to make sure that the weapon is truly cold, which means there should have been no weapon -- no rounds in there period.

And especially if it's a rehearsal there, you know, again, I'm not by any means trying to second guess what happened because the investigation is in the process and I'm sure they'll, you know, have a very detailed report but for any professional owner, myself included, I would make sure that any rehearsal, there is no sense in having anything in a weapon live or dummy round.

LEMON: Can I ask you something? So, you if you -- you said you check it at least two sources, you know, you look down the barrel or up with a flashlight.

CARPENTER: Right.

LEMON: Do you ever go out and clear it to make sure that it is clear? To shoot --

CARPENTER: Well -- well, actually, there is no need to do that on this type of weapon. The revolvers and they've got a very clear open cylinder, you can easily see inside of it and make sure there is nothing there and the chamber can be checked with a flashlight.

LEMON: Yes.

CARPENTER: There's very rarely that there's weapons that are incapable of being checked like that. They would have to be a very complex machine gun or belt fed weapon or something of that nature that would be even difficult to check, otherwise, especially revolvers are very simple.

LEMON: Yes. Do they need to make changes here? Because, you know, after Brandon Lee, there was supposedly many safety protocols that were upgraded and changed. Do you think there still needs to be more when you at -- I mean, if you look at the history of the entire movie business, I mean, these two -- this is two out of a very long history but still, a life is a life.

CARPENTER: You're right. Of course. And I would like to also say my heart felt sympathies go out to everyone involved in this from the, you know, from Alec Baldwin to the poor family of the people that -- the lady, the D.P. that lost her life and the director and all the crew that was involved in it.

It's such a tragedy and you know, something that you hope like you said can be avoided by making sure that safety is followed. Having said that, yes, one of the things that I have always pushed for and other professional prop masters that I work with who, you know, know exactly how this all should go.

And they follow those protocols because well, they've done it a long time in their profession and studios that understand that when you hire an armorer or a prop master, and you do it the right way, you need to vet these people out and make sure that they're certified to do this, that they just didn't work on one film two weeks ago and then all of a sudden they're an armorer and have, you know, the knowledge, experience and wisdom with them most importantly to handle a dangerous item on set.

[22:30:05]

There are three departments that can cause loss of life quickly on sets. And that's stunts, effects and armor services. And those three things need to be attended to and any time you have a chance to educate someone or educate an actor on the proper use and handling of this, time needs to be taken to do that.

LEMON: Yes.

CARPENTER: It doesn't need to be rushed through. It needs to be -- it needs to be a thing that is implemented on all sets.

LEMON: Well, Bryan Carpenter, you have really educated us and we really appreciate you joining us. Thank you for taking the time to explain to our viewers what should, how it should be handled. We appreciate it.

CARPENTER: Thank you. I appreciate it.

LEMON: Thank you.

So, Alec Baldwin says that he is cooperating with police. Is the actor in legal jeopardy? We're going to talk about that. That's next.

[22:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So, Alec Baldwin firing a prop gun on a movie set in New Mexico killing one, injuring another. No charges have been filed but investigators -- investigations are ongoing now.

So, joining me now CNN legal analyst Areva Martin. Areva, good evening to you.

You know, I spoke about this affiliate KOAT receiving this affidavit, I mean, getting a look at the search warrant, I should say tonight. It says an assistant director handed a prop gun to Alec Baldwin and yelled cold gun which means the gun didn't have any live rounds in it. The assistant director supposedly didn't know any live rounds were in that gun. They've been prepped for -- prepped by an armorer. Who is legally liable here?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Lots of questions, Don. You know, first of all my heart goes out this this young woman, her family, her son, her husband, I can't imagine a tragedy. The reality is no one should die on a movie set. No one should have a live -- a gun with live ammunition and pointing it at someone unless there is some intention to harm that person.

And we know Alec Baldwin had no intention to harm this young woman. But somebody made a mistake and somebody has to be held accountable. For the assistant director to hand the gun to Alec Baldwin with live ammunition and to say he didn't know. Well, it raises all kinds of questions about supervision and gun handling procedures on the set.

And some of the information that's coming out looks horrible, information that the whole process was rushed. That this was a low budget film. That some of the union workers had walked off the set, that non-union were on the set that, you know, Alina herself had complained or was standing in unity with some of the workers who felt like safety protocols were not being followed on the set.

So, there are lots of issues that took place on this set before this tragic accident occurred and I think as this investigation happens, I would not be surprised if there are no criminal charges and we definitely, definitely can expect to see civil claims filed. LEMON: Yes, when you talk about civil claims, right? Because you

believe that's going to happen. Alec Baldwin is not just an actor. Someone handed him the gun, which would lead --

MARTIN: Yes.

LEMON: He had no idea, right, what was happening here. But he's also a producer on the movie. In a court of law, does that mean any more responsibility or liability here?

MARTIN: Well, definitely. As you're pointing out, he's not just an actor, he is a producer so that gives him responsibility for the operations of what happen on the set. So, when we think about civil lawsuits, we can think of a list of people who may be named as defendants including this assistant director that handed him the gun, the armorer on the set whose job it was to make sure there were proper safety procedures in place.

The producers, the directors, maybe even the gun manufacturer. So, as we learn more about this tragedy, we can expect to see, you know, settlements, potentially, early settlements but definitely, you know, some compensation paid to her family.

And again, I don't want to rule out the possibility of criminal actions. In the state of New Mexico there are statutes that allow for excusable homicides, so there is a possibility that when investigators look at it, they say there is no criminal culpability here but there is also the state of New Mexico something called a depraved indifferent homicide.

So, I would not be surprised if we didn't see some charges filed against someone that's responsible for this woman's death.

LEMON: Again, it's still early on and we have to wait to see how this investigation plays out but I mean, you can just see the anguish in Alec Baldwin's face, the pictures that we have. He's doubled over. He's crying. I'm sure he's on the phone with someone trying to explain. I mean, I can't even imagine.

Obviously, it's a tragedy for, you know, the young lady and her family but also, you know, you are just doing your job and all of a sudden, someone is dead for something that you've done over and over and over again.

MARTIN: You know, as an actor, Don, you know, he's relying on the team there. He's relying on the crew, the people that get paid to handle these matters to not just hold safety meetings but to make sure the safety protocols are followed.

So, to think that someone hands you a loaded gun, you fire it and as a result, there is a death and someone else is injured has to be so horrific in terms of the emotional state of mind that Alec Baldwin is and everyone that witnessed it. Not just Alec, I mean, there was so many people on this set.

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: Everybody out there. Yes.

MARTIN: So, everyone has been impacted by this tragedy and the trauma is unthinkable at this point.

[22:40:01]

LEMON: We appreciate having you. Thank you, Areva. Thank you so much.

MARTIN: Thanks, Don. Thank you.

LEMON: So, everyone is a president, that's what Joe Biden says about negotiating with Democratic senators with another deadline coming up next week. Can they finally make a deal?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): The House Speaker Nancy Pelosi saying that she is hopeful Congress will vote next week on President Biden's sweeping economic agenda. Well some thought that there could be a deal by Monday but as the president laid out in CNN's town hall, they are still negotiating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: So far, Mr. Manchin and one other person is indicated they will not support free community college.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: You're also proposing for the first time ever federal paid parental leave. At one point you talked about 12 weeks, now there is reports it's down to maybe four weeks.

[22:45:01]

BIDEN: Yes, it is down to four weeks. The reason it's down to four weeks, they can't get 12 weeks.

COOPER: One of the other things that Democrats are looking to do is to expand Medicare to include dental, vision and hearing. Will all three of those still be covered?

BIDEN: That's a reach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, Mark McKinnon joins me now, he's a former advisor to George W. Bush and John McCain and executive producer of The Circus.

Hello, sir. By the way, 100th episode. Congratulations on that.

MARK MCKINNON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks very much, Don.

LEMON: This is a very critical moment for President Biden. He needs to get the bills over the finish line and was remarkably candid last night detailing what's in and what's out in these bills. Is that the right strategy to sell these plans?

MCKINNON: Well, I think it was -- I think he needed to do something to change the equation and he was a lot more specific last night on individual items as you had in the clip there. So, I think that's encouraging but the problem all along here, Don, is I think there's just --- this has been a problem of great expectations that hadn't been met.

I mean, first of all on COVID and second of all the economy, and second -- and third of all, the great FDR style, LBJ style legislative domestic agenda that would be so transformative. So, you just have these huge expectations from the general public and Democrats specifically on the legislation.

First of all, what's in it, second of all, when it's going to happen. And so, we had always artificial deadlines where people thought let's have it now, let's have it now, let's have it now. Now I understand you need the hammer sometimes to get people to move but the problem is nobody has moved yet. And from all that I can gather reading the tea leaves, I'm not sure it's not going to happen next week either.

So once again, I just think Democrats in the country are exhausted and by the time this thing goes through, it's going to be late and damaged and not nearly what people thought it was going to be --

Yes.

MCKINNON: -- and so it's just a tough road right now.

LEMON: Senator Kyrsten Sinema has made it really clear to say she won't support any tax hikes on corporations so Senate Democrats are looking at billion -- a billionaire's tax that would raise hundreds of billions of dollars off of the richest of the rich, about 700 people in this country.

And a source is telling CNN that Sinema hasn't ruled out this idea and it is optimistic about negotiations. Does that show just how much pressure she is under?

MCKINNON: Yes, I mean, I'm for that tax. That would be fine. It gets back some of the money we've been giving away to them all these years especially under the Trump tax cut. But the question I ask is that, you know, she seemed to have this sort of hard paid force in mind and it seems like why didn't we hear about it before?

LEMON: Right.

MCKINNON: And it just seems, it's like OK, you just figured this out now? I mean, I know you've got your spread sheet in front of you, and you're super smart on all of this. But if you had a hard line, couldn't we have heard about that two or three months so that the Democrats don't seem like they're being held a hostage.

LEMON: Right on. Right on. President Biden also told CNN that he is open to altering the filibuster to pass voting rights legislation. Obviously, this is up to the Senate and as of now, doesn't seem like Manchin and Sinema are on board with that. But that's a shot across the bow to Republicans.

MCKINNON: Well, I have some strong feelings about this, Don. I think it's such an acronyms and I don't think it has any practical value at this point. I mean, Republicans are going to do what they do. They know how to use power and use it in a hard-core way. And Democrats need to learn that lesson.

And I haven't in all my years, 30 plus years of campaign I've never heard one voter who say I want my filibuster. They don't give a shit about the filibuster. It's very inside the beltway of Washington thing.

And I think that Biden, what we saw last night was very encouraging, the most encouraging thing I've seen generally and specifically on the filibuster, which is the hand that he showed is that he needs to keep it to get Sinema and Manchin on the two bills that are in front of him. He needs that behind him.

But it looks pretty clear that once those are done, I mean, he needs their votes on those, then he's going to go to the filibuster which is, and by the way, Manchin is the one who said he wanted to on the voting rights stuff said he didn't want to look at the filibuster because he thought he could get 10 votes from Republicans. Well, he didn't get one.

So, I think they can go back to Manchin now after they get these other things, Don, and say OK, Joe, listen, you said you can get 10 votes, you got zero now.

LEMON: Zero. Yes.

MCKINNON: And by the, Don, one last thing. It's pretty clear and we'll talk about Virginia in a minute but it looks very clear to me like there's some big headwinds for Democrats right now that Joe Biden has got about a year left before he can do anything. And after that, it's going to be Republicans will be at least in control of the House and then maybe the presidency after that. So, there is a very tight window so I'd say get the filibuster the heck out of here.

LEMON: Yes. And speaking of, you got a new episode coming up and it has to do with Virginia. Terry McAuliffe. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:50:00]

TERRY MCAULIFFE (D-VA), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: We need Virginia to be that boujee (Ph) to protect women's right here. We're not letting him bring all of his anti-women, anti-choice, all the Trump stuff. Listen, Trump wants to use this to launch the 2024 campaign. He's basically said that. He's endorsed Youngkin six times. Trump is looking for anything he can to lift himself up and this would be a big win here in the commonwealth of Virginia.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON (on camera): So, Mark, I got to say, great episode. You should

watch. You're 100th episode. We're very proud of you. I can't let you respond because we're out of time. So, we'll be watching this weekend. And we'll see you soon here on CNN. Have a good weekend. Thank you very much.

MCKINNON: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you. So, he pushed a lot of conspiracies and lies and now he is being called to testify, another Trump ally heading to talk to the January 6th committee. Stay with us.

[22:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So, we have got news tonight on the investigation into the January 6th insurrection. Sources tiling CNN, Jeffrey Clark, it's the Justice Department official who pushed the big lie and help the then president try to overturn our free and fair election. He will testify before the select committee next week.

Clark will be the first Trump administration official to comply with a subpoena for an interview and as someone who was in touch with Trump in the days before the January 6th insurrection, he could have a lot to say.

According to a Senate report, Clark floated plans to give Georgia's legislature and other states backing to undermine the popular vote results. He also recommended holding a press conference announcing the DOJ was investigating allegations of voter fraud even though there was absolutely no evidence.

Clearly, Jeffrey Clark knows a lot and we'll keep you posted how this unfolds.

Thank you for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues with a CNN special report Gabby Petito and the hunt for justice.

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