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Don Lemon Tonight

Five Trump Staffers Cooperated With January 6th Committee; Judge Ruled House Arrest For Matthew Sibik; No Charges Ruled Over Halyna Hutchins' Death; Dave Chappelle Speaks Out; FDA Approves EUA For Children. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 26, 2021 - 22:00   ET




CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): Thank you for watching. And it's time for DON LEMON TONIGHT and the big star, D. Lemon.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You've got tonight, I heard you talking about Facebook. We talk about it today on The Handoff, which we'll release on Thursday. We talked about regulation, I think you actually had a good idea that it should be a sort of FDA, and what did I say it was, it should be like an internet communication.


CUOMO: What I said it should be like the FCC, remember that part.

LEMON: Yes. Well, I said it should be the internet communications commission or something like the social media --


CUOMO: But the FCC won't let me be, that's Eminem.


CUOMO: And very interesting the shift we've had since his time, which was where the government was chasing him for the same kind of, you know, rock and roll reactionary, you know, government posture. Now we have the political right saying no, no, no, you can't come near or social media, you just want to censor us, even though they're the biggest beneficiaries of the social media platforms in terms of magnification.

But here is the root cause, brother, and then I'll give it to you. The root cause is this. Animus sells.


CUOMO: Provocativeness sells.


LEMON: Lies sells.

CUOMO: Anger sells. And that's why Facebook and a lot of these other guys in the same space, played to those ads. Because the algorithm tells them this makes money. And I got to tell you what. You see a really smart guy like Ted Cruz, right, at Harvard Law, they said he was one of the brightest students they've ever had.

So why did he say so many stupid things? Because they get him wattage, they are provocative, he gets reach. And that's part of this problem, what is being rewarded in society is what they're cashing in on.

LEMON: Yes. It is power co-opting the little guy. Imagine, Chris, imagine if all the people who are co-opted by the misinformation, or disinformation, or the lies. All of that. Imagine if they would come together, right? If you got the poor people in America, white and black and brown in America, to come together because they have more in common than they have that separates them.

And imagine the power that they would have the entire country would change. Now you think it should be done through a third party. I don't know if it should be done through a third party. I don't know if you want to share what you have said about that.

CUOMO: I believe the binary party system --

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: -- is exacerbating all of our problems, I think it's time has passed. It plays to all of the divisions --


LEMON: To play this division, I agree with that.

CUOMO: -- in the society, and it gives one side an easy out when they're out of power to just oppose. Yes, the right weaponizes that in a way the left doesn't want to or can't figure out how to when they're out of power.

I believe that you need more parties. But it's going to be very hard to do, just for a theoretical discussion, there's no question that that's a good solution. But this two -- you can't even get term limits --


CUOMO: -- because the people in power don't want to cede any of it. But if you can have a real labour party, and don't -- and I know some people are going to try to attack the idea of, that's communism. That's -- no, no, no. I'm talking about people who earn a wage that happened to be the biggest slice of workers in this country, and small businesses that don't get treated like big businesses in terms of taxes and write-offs, even though the engines of the economy.

If there is a party that played to them in their interests --


CUOMO: -- and didn't play games with all of these different forms of division, that would be a formidable faction.

LEMON: There is one party that pays closer to that, but they haven't gotten their acts together. They're not very good, as I said for politics and that's the Democratic Party. I find that the Republicans, for the most part, especially in this environment, keep voting against their own interests, keeps supporting people that are against their own interests. Keep supporting the people, as we say the man, the people who are keeping them down, the people who are cutting taxes for the really rich people. Right?

CUOMO: Messaging matters.

LEMON: Messaging matters because they have been co-opted by the message.

CUOMO: Messaging matters. And fear sells.


CUOMO: They are coming for you, Don.

LEMON: Yes, I know.

CUOMO: They are coming for you. They are coming for your ability to spend.

LEMON: Gosh.

CUOMO: They're coming for your kids.

LEMON: They're taking your jobs.

CUOMO: And they don't want you to live your life the way they want to.

LEMON: And they're teaching your kids all kinds of things that they actually --


CUOMO: Forcing them to read black books.

LEMON: They're making the kids feel bad about being whites.

CUOMO: You got to read that black book.


CUOMO: That's what beloved is, forget about the Pulitzer.


CUOMO: Forget about the Nobel laureate, forget about Tony Morrison being able to craft image thru language in a way very few ever had in our history of our civilization.

LEMON: Very few people --


CUOMO: It's a black book and you have to read it, whitey.

LEMON: Yes. Very few people can put words on people like Tony Morris or -- Tony Morrison or --


CUOMO: But look how it's working in Virginia. And you don't think we're going to see that echo in the midterms?

LEMON: Of course. yes, it's all a plan. You know that. I got --


CUOMO: Especially, now look, today is big day for parents, OK. Kids, getting that kind of big strong approval from the FDA. Here is my appeal to you in government. Yes, I know, I give you a hard time on a regular basis. But here's an opportunity to not get a hard time. Get the messaging straight, don't talk about mandates, talk about the message of safety.

What is the data? Why does it show that this is OK for kids? Why do you believe that it is an important decision to get a vaccine when kids don't seem to get that sick? How do you give a parent like me the comfort to know that this is more reward than risk for my child?


CUOMO: Do it, do it consistently, do it everywhere, do it till it makes sense to people --


CUOMO: -- or you will lose and this issue will be put right in the basket of reasons to fear government along with everything else, COVID.

LEMON: Yes. This is how I feel though, same thing they told my parents when I went to school, in order for Don to go to the school, Mrs. Lemon, he got to have the measles mumps, rubella, and the COVID shot. I mean, there is no COVID shot then. But that's just the easy thing for me, just do it because you're supposed to do it.


CUOMO: It's true.

LEMON: Because you're looking at --

CUOMO: I thought you were talking about when they told your mom that you're going to have to repeat third grade for the fourth time. LEMON: No. Fourth grade for the fourth time.

CUOMO: But look at you now.

LEMON: Yes, look at me now, I'm still repeating fourth grade because I'm talking to you.

CUOMO: See. That's your problem, you're being bigger star. You've got to speak to me like a second grade.

LEMON: I love you. I'll see you later.

CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.

LEMON: This is Don Lemon Tonight.

And we are -- and we've got a lot of breaking news, multiple big stories to talk to you about this evening, a lot going on this Tuesday night. Like negotiating going on at the White House where the deadline is looming to push President Joe Biden's agenda across the finish line.

Can they do it? Because they've been trying and trying and trying? It may come down to, you know, you know who it may come down to. Say it with me. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema and their support for the corporate minimum tax.

We also have breaking news on the January 6 committee, that group of lawmakers investigating the attacks on the capitol. They're planning to subpoena John Eastman. John Eastman is a conservative law professor wrote a memo laying out plans to overturn Joe Biden's election.

I want -- this is the president just a little while ago he was stumping for Terry McAuliffe in Virginia, as we just mentioned Virginia, he's slamming extremism, taking a shot at McAuliffe's opponent, Glenn Youngkin.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Extremism we can come in many forms, we can come in the rage of a mob driven to an assault -- driven to assault the capitol, it can come in a smile and a fleece vest.


LEMON (on camera): Also listen, I'm going to talk to a lot more about the committee, right, the January 6 committee, they are getting their message across, and they -- they're not playing.

At least five people who worked in the former president's administration are voluntarily talking to the committee. They range from junior senior -- junior to senior White House staffers, they're not waiting to be subpoenaed. They're not following Steve Bannon's lead to try to weasel out of telling what they know about one of the darkest days in American history. We don't know who the former -- the five former staffers are, but you

can bet the former president isn't happy about this development. Some of them reportedly believe that they have information worth sharing while others are volunteering to avoid being subpoenaed.


REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): I've got good reason to believe that a number of them are horrified and scandalized but what took place on January 6, and they want to do their legal duty and their civic duty by coming forward to explain exactly what happened.


LEMON (on camera): There is also there is more, OK? CNN has learned that the committee is reaching out to two top homeland security officials from the previous administration, Chad Wolf, Ken Cuccinelli, both an office in a time between the election and January 6, while the then president was furiously pushing the bogus big lie of election fraud. The committee asking them to voluntarily tell what they know.

That, as President Joe Biden is refusing to assert executive privilege over a second batch of documents the former president wants to keep under wraps and away from the committee.

Now I said it before but you've got to wonder what he's trying to hide. You've got to wonder why he doesn't want you to know the truth. But far too many Republicans just can't handle the truth. They are trying to rewrite the history of what happened on January 6th.

Mo Brooks who tells CNN that he had no involvement in planning the so- called stop the steal rally right before the attack on the capitol. But he says, if his staff did, he'd be proud of them for, quote, "helping to put together a rally, lawful under the first amendment at the ellipse to protest voter fraud and election theft." Proud.


Proud of a rally pushing the big lie of bogus voter fraud. A rally that was all about overturning Joe Biden's election, about overturning the will of the American people. About overturning the election of a duly elected president in the most secure election in our nation's history. And remember what Mo Brooks said at that rally?


REP. MO BROOKS (R-LA): Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.


LEMON (on camera): All of that in a fire Pelosi hat. At least one member of the January 6 committee would like to speak to the congressman about that day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. PETER AGUILAR (D-CA): I would hope that my colleague would also be proud then to come speak and to tell his side of the story and to get it on the record. This, from an individual who said, who clearly questioned his own safety because he wore a flak jacket underneath when he went and spoke at the ellipse.


LEMON (on camera): And then there is the QAnon space lasers congresswoman who would have you believe that what happened at the capitol wasn't that bad because it was, her words, just a riot.


REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): January 6 was just a riot at the capitol, and if you think about what our Declaration of Independence says, it says to overthrow tyrants.


LEMON (on camera): I mean, like just a riot, just the riot at the United States Capitol. It was just right. Five people died. More than 100 police officers were injured. More than 600 people have been charged with criminal behavior. And she's trying to minimize it by calling it just a riot. Not to mention this garbage about over turn -- overthrowing tyrants.

Now that sounds an awful lot like an insurrection to me. That, as a man charged in the brutal assault of officer Michael Fanone is getting out of jail. A federal judge ruling today that Thomas Sibik who has been in jail since he was arrested in March, deserves house arrest at his parent's home. Judge Amy Berman Jackson pointing to Sibik's apology for his actions and his attempts to distance himself from other capitol rioters in jail.

The judge ordered Sibik not to watch any political news on TV, and to stay off social media. Think of it, come on. It's like -- here's a -- have a time out. I'm sending you to your room, and have a time out. I'm taking your phone away.

The judge saying, quote, "giving you the benefit of the doubt, which I think you've earned. I believe you deserve a chance, please understand that there will be only one chance. If you violate my conditions, that will be an indication that my trust was misplaced."

It kind of puts the whole Facebook news, let me just say this. You know, I'll talk a little bit later but I'll talk about Michael Fanone a little bit later. It puts this whole Facebook news this week in the spotlight, doesn't it? A federal judge ordering an accused capitol rioter to stay off social media.

That is just another example of the role social media plays in triggering people. Right? Remember Bakari Sellers is on last night he said, maybe there should be some lawsuits against the social media companies. So, she's using that in a legal judgment, so to speak, then perhaps, maybe Bakari there's something to what he's saying. She's talking about social media and how it's such a big part of how

we got to January 6th in the first place. Isn't that an admission if you're saying, stay off of social media?

Now back to Michael Fanone. You know I've gotten to know Michael Fanone really well, he's a friend. But that's not with this is about. No one, and I mean no one, should ever have to endure what he endured on January 6 while he was trying to do his duty, trying to defend the United States Capitol.

Obviously, he's not happy about this. Someone tries to take your weapon, your means of communication, really what he says is that he feels completely abandoned by the system by the judicial system, by the judge, and by his department quite frankly. He feels ostracized and blackballed.


And doesn't understand how he's supposed to prosper or operate under the conditions for telling the truth, for putting his life on the line to save not only the democracy, but lives.

And you get a timeout? Now I was coming on the time out. You did not get a time out as a child. But now people get timeouts, and now people who are accused of insurrections, overthrowing our -- trying to overthrow our government are getting timeouts.

That's a reality of what happened on January 6th, and the committee has to unearth the whole truth if we are going to save our democracy. All of this should be looked into, all of it. That's why people say our court system, they say criminal justice reform, I think it's the court system, court system as well. Reform.

There are lots of new developments tonight. Also, in the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of Alec Baldwin's movie, the D.A. says that they're not ruling out criminal charges. We're going live to Santa Fe, that's next.



LEMON (on camera): Breaking news tonight. Word that criminal charges are possible in the death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins who was shot by Alec Baldwin on the set of the movie "Rust" in New Mexico. The Santa Fe district attorney telling CNN the incident remains under active investigation.

And a crew member posting a photo that could be the last image of Halyna Hutchins image of on the south. Him in the set in the puffy jacket. You see that, right there, right over her head with the headphones with tan hat, right. Alec Baldwin in the background, you see him dressed as a cowboy -- in a cowboy hat, a western hat.

I want to bring in now CNN correspondent Josh Campbell, also legal analyst Areva Martin. Hello to both of you. Again, thanks for joining. Josh, the Santa Fe district attorney says that they are not ruling criminal charges. What else do you know about their investigation?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Hi, Don, and good to see you, Areva. Yes, we are learning new information about the status of the state investigation here, Don. An official with the district attorney's office tells me that it remains active at this hour, that they had not yet ruled out any criminal charges.

And of course, that's important because we have been wondering about that question of liability. Will any person, or group of people ultimately be held responsible for the death of Halyna Hutchins? An official here with the district attorney's office saying that their work continues, they are trying to sort that out determining whether there will be any charges brought at all, Don.

LEMON: What's your reaction, Areva, to the possibility of criminal charges in the case not being ruled out?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I am not surprised at all, Don, given all the information that's coming out. There's allegations that there were bullets on this set. That there was lots of ammunition on the set, and that perhaps even crew members were engaged in some kind of target practice on their down time. Actually, shooting guns with, you know, active bullets in it.

So, if those allegations are correct, I am not surprised at all. And we've heard all these allegations, Don, about the relaxed safety policies that safety policies were not followed, that there wasn't proper supervision on this set. And even someone that was being considered for the job as armorer has come forward and said he didn't take the job because he saw red flags. He saw trouble waiting on the set.

So, all of those allegations, not surprising at all that the district attorney says everything is on the table.

LEMON: Right. And those charges, Areva, would be for the person who was responsible, most likely, responsible for the chain of custody of the gun not necessarily the shooter because if you look at the history of the movie business, there is a process. Right? The actor doesn't pick up the gun and whoever is supposed to do it, if that was followed. If it wasn't followed, it was the person who did that part of it, not necessarily Alec Baldwin. Am I correct?

MARTIN: I don't want to go there, Don. I don't want to agree with you on that because --


LEMON: But Areva, that's according to everybody I've spoken to in the movie business. Everyone who talks about the process. The actor never picks up the gun, the actor is not responsible for what's in charge of the gun. It's the armorer and the person who is in charge of the props.

MARTIN: One --


LEMON: Unless there was something weird that happened.

MARTIN: One recall here, Don, is the actor in this case is also the producer on the set. So, there is a question about the responsibility that this producer had in terms of the safety protocols on the set. I don't think we should be jumping to conclusions that all --


LEMON: But isn't that a civil liability and not, that would not be if he is the producer then he is in charge of the production that's not --

MARTIN: Possibly could be civil.


MARTIN: But it could raise -- it could rise to the level of some kind of criminal culpability. I don't think we should be reaching conclusions about this investigation given that it's ongoing, given that information is coming out daily about what was happening on the set.

Now clearly, everybody wants to see Alec Baldwin exonerated. You know, they don't want to see him held accountable what happened on --


LEMON: No, no, don't get me wrong, that's not what I am doing. I mean, we're all -- every -- no one knows exactly what happened, Areva. I mean, you are speculating just as we are. I am just saying, in the movie business there is usually a chain of custody in what's usually happens on a set. And if that didn't happen, then that would lead the person to -- that will show you who should be charged.

I'm not trying to let anybody off the hook, Alec Baldwin or anyone, but if I am on a movie set, or I am in this studio, and we are in a union type of thing, and someone hands me something that I am supposed to use, and they are in charge of whether or not it should be loaded or not loaded, it's not my responsibility as an actor to -- it's not my responsibility. It's the person who is supposed to load it and check it. Not the person who had just gets handed to. That just seems like common sense, but maybe I am wrong.

MARTIN: Yes, I'm not speculating, Don. I'm simply saying parroting what the district attorney has said, which is that everything is on the table and she's not ruled out anyone. So, I know you've had experts on, I know these folks have a lot of experience in what they do, but in this case, I don't think we should make conclusions about who will, and will not be charged until we hear more from the district attorney. That is all I am saying.

LEMON: Yes. I got you. [22:24:59]

MARTIN: I think it's fair to let the investigation conclude -- be concluded and then we know who is going to be charged and won't be charged.

LEMON: Well, let's speak of what's in the court documents, Josh. Because you -- you also obtained these new court documents or any court record showing the large amount of evidence investigators pulled from the crime scene. Perhaps that will help us out in the discussion that we're having right now. What did they find?

CAMPBELL: Well, they found a treasure trove of information that they deemed applicable to this investigation. Anytime that there is an incident especially one involving a death, the law enforcement will surround that scene and then get a court -- a search warrant to try to seize it for their investigation.

We are learning that they seized a number of items, they named some of them here. There were three pistols that were found, as well as cases of ammunition, there was a fanny pack containing ammunition, and spent shell casings.

One thing left unstated in the search warrant that we obtained is whether or not these were actually live rounds. Authorities surely know at this hour what these pieces of ammunition were, whether they were live, whether they were dummy rounds, blanks, and the like. But we are told that there were a lot of them.

And finally, you know, to get to that key question about what actually cause the death. I actually spoke to an official here at the medical examiner's office who says that their investigation remains ongoing, it could be weeks before we hear from them.

But the sheriff's officials say that they are looking to the medical examiner to help try to answer that key question that we all have, and that was what was in that weapon. Was it some kind of debris? Was it a live round? We are told the answer to that question is potentially weeks away, but this gets to this larger issue that not only impacts this case, people ask us, Don, why do you focus so much on this one case?

We are obviously, you know, providing a tribute to a cinematographer who was killed. But this also reverberates to other sets around the world where you have people that are directors, that are camera operators that are entertainment professionals in other areas that want to work on a set that is safe.

And you can bet that their bosses are watching this coverage and learning the lessons about what went wrong here so hopefully a byproduct of all this coverage is going to be safer workplace for all these people who work with thousands of people on these movie sets across the world.

LEMON: We would hope. I think the truest thing said and this will set the investigation play out and see what happens. Thank you, Areva. Thank you, Josh. I appreciate it.

Five former Trump staffers are talking voluntarily meeting with the committee investigating January 6. Plus, Dave Chappelle speaking out about the controversy surrounding his latest comedy special.


DAVE CHAPPELLE, COMEDIAN: To the transgender community, I'm more than willing to give you an audience. But you will not summon me. I am not bending to anybody's demands.




LEMON (on camera): So, Dave Chappelle is responding. He is speaking out about the backlash over his latest special where he made jokes about the LGBTQ community. This is what he had to say in Nashville.


CHAPPELLE: I want everyone in this audience to know that even though the media frames it that it's me versus not community, it's not what it is. Don't blame the LGBTQ community for any of this (muted). It has nothing to do with them. It's about corporate interest to the transgender community.

I am more than willing to give you an audience, but you will not summon me. I am not bending to anybody's demands.


CHAPPELLE: And if you want to meet with me, I'd be more than willing to. But I have some conditions. First of all, you cannot come if you have not watched my special from beginning to end.


CHAPPELLE: You must come to a place of my choosing, at a time of my choosing, and thirdly you must admit that Hannah Gadsby is not funny.


LEMON (on camera): OK. So, remember, in Chappelle's Netflix special it's called the Closer, he joked about trans women, about genitalia, he said he was a TERF, Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. Look, he also said that he got into a fight with a lesbian woman he didn't know was a lesbian woman at the time, he also talked about white people. He talked about a lot of people in the special. And he offended a lot of people.

So, joining me now, W. Kamau Bell, the host of CNN's United Shades of America. And you offend a lot of people in your comedy I'm sure every day, but anyway.

Kamau, good to see you, I'm glad you're here. Thank you. I can't wait to hear your perspective. After all this backlash -- well, first of all, tell me what you think before I ask you all these questions.

W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST: What do I think? There are so many things to think about this. I think that the thing about standup comedy is it's one-way traffic. It's when a standup comedian stands on stage and talks, they are not actually asking for your opinion. So, Chappelle gets to say whatever he wants to say, and he gets to set the terms of the debate, which means that whenever he wants to, he can shift the debate, which is what he did in this new thing he released.

Because I don't know that any of the trans people on Netflix were asking to meet with Dave Chappelle, but now he said it, suddenly we are talking about that when really, they were talking about creating a safer work environment, and a work environment that supported them better.


LEMON: OK. So, after all the backlash, he says that he wants to set the conditions now on hearing out of the -- you know, from the trans community, as you said he is setting the tone. He says the real divide between -- the real divide is between him and corporate America. It doesn't want -- he thinks that corporate America should stop bowing to interests, right? What did you think about that?

BELL: I mean, if corporate America didn't bow to interests, I don't know that black people would have the freedom to be enjoyed in this country, first of all. I think that we -- I think that this is not about corporate America bowing to interests.

I know that Dave Chappelle says he has been counseled, or this is being cancelled, but I'd kind of like to be cancelled like Dave Chappelle. He has gotten $20 million for his last few specials each. I don't think he has been canceled. I think he is courting this cancel culture because that's a market. But it's -- I don't -- this is about trans -- there's two conversations, what did you think about Dave Chappelle's special? And how do we create a safer America for trans people?

Now the Dave Chappelle special might be part of that conversation but it is not the main part of that conversation.

LEMON: So, I said to you that, you know, I'm sure you offend people with your comedy, you don't think that you offend people at times?

BELL: Of course, I offend people. I mean, I think the idea is like who you are offending, and why you are offending. Dave Chappelle talked about in his special the idea of punching up and punching down. That's an idea I believe in. I only wanted to offend the people who I think it's OK -- who I think should be offended. That's how I roll. Not every comic works that way, I don't think every comic should work that way. But I do think that once you offend people, you have to deal with the consequences. And right now, Dave Chappelle is hearing from people. But again, none of the people at Netflix, none of the trans people at Netflix are saying take his special down, they are saying we want to create an environment through which we can have a more trans friendly platform and we can feel safer and we'll listen to your work.

LEMON: So, there is also this underlying tension between black, cisgender, heterosexual men and people in the LGBTQ community. last season on your show United Shades you actually spoke to trans women about what people can do better. Here it is.


BELL: Cisgender heterosexual men like myself, if I am not hurting anybody, if I'm not killing anybody, I am doing enough. Obviously, we can do more. What can men like me do better?

UNKNOWN: Let me ask you.

BELL: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Where do you feel like the cisgender man -- the heterosexual man role is?

BELL: I think the hardest thing to do is to tell other cisgender heterosexual men to shut up. To not let that, quote, unquote, "locker room talk' go. Obviously, these are things that could be seen as harder. But that stuff happens more often, and it's easier to let go and think, I'm not going to get involved in this.

UNKNOWN: Because it's not a locker room talk. It's violence. You know?

BELL: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Yes. Like it's violence and that when we are able to laugh at somebody else's humanity being like taken away from them, that was not the physical act of violence but it was a precursor to the physical act of violence, because it's been OK in the minds of the person who might go and do that thing, or in the minds of the person who has a child who might go and do that thing.


LEMON (on camera): You actually sat with people and had a conversation where you are open and -- open-minded and willing to listen, and perhaps change your mind. But what would you tell to --

BELL: Yes.

LEMON: -- Dave Chappelle about the conversation you had? And why should -- why should he do the same?

BELL: I think if he really wants to have a conversation with the trans community, specifically with the black trans community, because I feel like that's one of the big issues here. Is that, black trans people feel like he wasn't about them. He was talking about white trans people, he was including black trans folks e in the conversation.

We have to build the weight of being black in America and being trans. I don't think you would do that by telling them that you are going to set the date and time that you want the conversation they have to come to you. If you really want to have a conversation, you have to do like what I did. You go to them.

I went to Dallas, that was the house of rebirth, I met with (Inaudible), I met with Pocahontas, and we sat and had the conversation. And one of the hardest things for standup comic to do is shut your mouth and listen. That's where I think I've gotten good at over the last few years of the show, is shutting your mouth and listening.

And that's not something that every standup comic or even every person wants to do, but even that conversation you could see my discomfort. Because they said you have to be willing to call out black cisgender men. And that's still difficult for me.

Coming on here talking about Dave Chappelle, I'm already sort of worried about what this means for comic on comic violence. I'm offended to go, when really, I just want to create a world that is more empathetic to the lives of trans people, and specifically black trans women.

LEMON: Listen, when we discussed this before, just briefly, but just about you coming on, nothing -- you said, my gosh. Both of us said. Man, I don't know, this conversation, I don't know what to do with this conversation. It can be exhausting. It's important, but you know, everybody feels a certain kind of way, and everybody is going to say something. And I mean, what did -- is there anything that you didn't say, Kamau? Because I really -- I really respect your perspective.

BELL: I mean, to be quite frank, when I watch Chappelle's special, it just sort of bummed me out. Because I knew that once again, it's not -- it's the fans of Chappelle, and then the people who stand with Chappelle.


We have seen people on the right who are weaponizing Chappelle's word against the trans community. I don't think that's what Dave wants to have happened, I'm not sure. But in this current political environment that creates less safety for trans people. And again, specifically, for black trans folks.

And I -- Dave famously on SNL, when Trump was elected said give Trump a chance. And then later came back and said, oops, that was a mistake. I am sincerely hoping that Dave actually can sit and listen with some trans people, and open his mind a little bit, and realize that you don't want your jokes to be weaponized against trans folks to make them feel less safe in the world. And again, specifically black trans folks who he did not mention in his special. LEMON: That's why we have you on, W. Kamau Bell. Thank you, sir. I

appreciate it.

At least five former Trump staffers are taking -- or talking, excuse me, to the January 6th committee and they've got their eye on a lawyer who tried to plot the way for overturning the election. Stay with us.


LEMON (on camera): So, we have more breaking news tonight, the House committee investigating the January 6th insurrection planning to subpoena John Eastman. John Eastman is the lawyer who advised the former president on how to overturn Joe Biden's victory in the 2020 election.

I want to discuss now with CNN's senior analyst, Preet Bharara, a former U.S. attorney. Preet, it's always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much. Let's get right to it.


LEMON: John Eastman is a critical player to hear from. Do you think that he is going to cooperate, or he is going to follow the likes of Steve Bannon?

BHARARA: It's hard to say. What's interesting about John Eastman is on the one hand, he was central as you say in drawing up this memo that set forth -- the steps by which former Vice President Mike Pence could overturn the election.

There's been some recent reporting and statements from him. On the one hand in which he says, you know, it wasn't really my intention to cause that to happen. Someone asked me to write a memo, I don't remember who that person was.

And there is this still other reporting where someone interviewed him and he stood by what he did, and said when asked the question why didn't Mike Pence follow your instructions, he said well, Mike Pence is an establishment Republican, signifying that he stood by what he had done.

So, he seems to be back and forth on how he feels about it. There are other witnesses who I think are thinking about their own legacies, and their own future employment possibilities and whether or not they want to be associated with this. So, I think different people have different motivations. John Eastman seems to be mixed.

LEMON: So, I told our viewers earlier about these five Trump staffers meeting with the committee voluntarily. Is this a good sign that they are piecing together what was going on inside the West Wing on January 6th?

BHARARA: Yes, I think it's a great sign. You know, we keep focusing, I do, others do, on the intransigence of Steve Bannon and whether or not he is going to be indicted by the Justice Department. But there are many other witnesses, including former Justice Department officials and the staffers who are yet unnamed who are coming forward voluntarily. They are not just sticking their thumbs in the eye of the committee.

And again, some of them may not be coming forward to admit culpability of their own, but they might be witnesses to communication, they might have some understanding of the president's involvement based on statements they overheard him say, or other people heard the president say.

Hearsay is all going to be admissible in this congressional committee investigation, and the more people they can get to come in without issuing subpoenas, I think the better for the investigation and for the understanding of the American people.

LEMON: What about a January 6 committee reaching out to two former Trump Department of Homeland Security officials, Chad Wolf and Ken Cuccinelli to voluntarily speak with the committee, what light could they shed on the final days and all the pressure Trump was putting on agencies to support the big lie?

BHARARA: That all depends on what their knowledge is, and what they are prepared to say. As we know, with more and more reporting every day, we learn of more people who are in the circle. More people who are at the Willard Hotel which they named themselves, the command center with respect to January 6.

We are hearing about more people who knew of other folks who were interested in what was going, on and what could go on January 6, not just Steve Bannon, not just people in the Justice Department, not just direct advisers to the president like John Eastman, but these two individuals from DHS as well.

And as long as they are prepared to say everything that they knew and heard and understand, again, going back to your first question, that's great for the investigation and for public understanding.

LEMON: Preet Bharara, thank you. I always appreciate having you on and your knowledge on the subjects.

BHARARA: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Thank you so much. Sure.

Kids 5 to 11 years old are one step closer to a vaccine. We are going to tell you when you can expect them to be available, and how they are different from what adults are getting. Stay with us.



LEMON (on camera): The FDA's vaccine advisory committee voting in favor of recommending emergency use authorization of the Pfizer vaccine for kids 5 to 11 years old. Pfizer is saying that their vaccine is 90 percent effective against any symptomatic COVID for that age group. The vaccine could be available for 28 million children in just weeks.

So, let's discuss this now with Dr. Dimitri Christakis, director of the Center for Child Health Behavior and Development at Seattle's -- at Seattle Children's Hospital, and the editor in chief at JAMA Pediatrics.

We love having you on, doctor. We don't have a long time so let's get right to it. Good evening to you.

If the FDA accepts their recommendation, and then the CDC approves shots could be going into kids arms within weeks. A game-changer for many parents with young kids they've been waiting for.

DIMITRI CHRISTAKIS, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR CHILD HEALTH, BEHAVIOR AND DEVELOPMENT, SEATTLE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: It is a game-changer. It is a game-changer for parents of young kids, it's a game-changer of society -- for society. But it's all predicated on kids getting the vaccine, which they need to do.

You know, Don, I have been saying for some time, I think on your show, for almost two years now, that we need to focus on helping kids get their lives back. Their lives have been disrupted in very profound ways, and we are starting to see the effects of it.

We always talk about the mortality associated with COVID, right, the deaths, and now we are focused on the fact that deaths are going down. Only -- only 1,500 people a day are dying of COVID. But let me give you some other numbers. Five hundred thousand fewer children, young adults enrolled in college this fall than last year.

Community college matriculation is down 21 percent. Twenty-one percent this year. And as we all know, community college is for many families, particularly low-income families, and families of children of color, their ticket out.


It's an essential part of the arc of their lives. This is all happening because of COVID. We need to do everything we can to bend the arc and help children and young adults get their lives back, and immunized children.

LEMON: OK. So, in the interest of time, let me move on and ask you this. Everything you said is great. There are 28 million kids, that's a lot of kids, and a lot of shots.


LEMON: The White House is saying that they are going to lean on individual pediatricians to vaccinate kids. But do you think they should be implementing a different strategy, or do you think this is a good strategy?

CHRISTAKIS: Well, I think pediatricians are an important part of the equation because we are a very trusted voice for parents and families. My personal belief is that we should use schools as vaccination sites, the way we did a generation ago for polio.

I think we should use schools not only because they are convenient for families, because they are in their neighborhoods and in many cases, within walking distance, but because they add, if you will, kind of a social contagion component. Right?

Families getting vaccinated, schools will see other families like them getting vaccinated, they'll see their friend, their kids' friends getting vaccinated, their neighbors are getting their children vaccinated, it will really help because part of what we have here is a credibility gap around vaccines.

And when we do everything we can to convince people that people like you, people you trust are giving their children the vaccine. I don't have kids that are 5 to 11 anymore, my kids are older, but if I did, I would get them vaccinated as soon as they possibly could. And I hope everybody else does.

LEMON: Let's hope people follow your advice. Doctor, thank you very much. I appreciate it. I'll see you next time. Thanks.

CHRISTAKIS: My pleasure.

LEMON: One week to election day and with the key governor's race neck and neck, President Biden is hitting the trail tonight. That's next.