Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
Jurors Speak Out About Their Verdict; Chauvin Trial Brought Nightmares; Jurors First And Last Interview With The Media. Aired 10- 11p ET
Aired October 28, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): He has duties.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Yes.
CUOMO: He has responsibilities that go to what. His actions are supposed to be, and his inactions are supposed to be about.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: So, it's not like how do you commit a crime if it's about what he didn't do? Because he has a duty to act --
LEMON: To care.
CUOMO: -- and also, a duty of inaction. It's going to be fascinating for people to watch it. great get. Important.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you, Chris. We'll be watching you there in Rome, and now it's time to watch a DON LEMON TONIGHT special, inside the jury room starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: The crowds are gone but there are reminders everywhere not the least of which is the place where it happened right here. First a makeshift memorial now a permanent one, George Floyd Square.
GEORGE FLOYD, SECURITY GUARD: I can't breathe.
LEMON: It was the video that horrified the country.
CROWD: I can't breathe.
LEMON: And one of the most important trials we've ever seen.
UNKNOWN: Count one, unintentional second-degree murder, guilty. Count two, third degree murder, guilty. Count three, second degree manslaughter, guilty.
LEMON: Tonight, the jurors in the trial of Derek Chauvin are speaking out.
NICOLE DETERS, JUROR, CHAUVIN TRIAL: I think there's a lot of misconceptions out there.
LEMON: They tell me what it was like deciding a case that sparked protests --
CROWD: I can't breathe.
LEMON: -- and outrage around the world.
JODI DOUD, JUROR, CHAUVIN TRIAL: How could somebody do that to someone else?
LISA CHRISTENSEN, ALTERNATE JUROR, CHAUVIN TRIAL: I just still can't wrap my mind around how a $20 counterfeit bill ended up in George Floyd's death.
LEMON: This took a toll on you.
TOSSA EDORTH, JUROR, CHAUVIN TRIAL: I can still see that video play it in my mind right now.
BRANDON MITCHELL, JUROR, CHAUVIN TRIAL: And when you turn away you want to look at the wall, you want to look anywhere else, really. Even when you look away you still hear it, you still hear him crying and moaning.
NICHOLE WILLIAMS, ALTERNATE JUROR, CHAUVIN TRIAL: It's something I will never forget no matter how much therapy I've already done.
SHERRI BELTON HARDEMAN, JUROR, CHAUVIN TRIAL: And it just -- just hurt -- just hurt my whole soul with my whole body.
LEMON: A DON LEMON TONIGHT exclusive, Inside the Jury Room.
It was kind of tough to get you guys to do this. You were concerned about your safety and your privacy and I understand why. But what do you want -- what do you want -- what do you want people to get out of this? What do you want people to get out of this?
HARDEMAN: I want people to understand that this was no easy task for us. It was -- I felt like it was my civic duty to step forward and represent. And a lot of people have different opinions about the verdict and about the whole process, but it wasn't an easy task. We took this very seriously.
EDORTH: You know, I just wanted to add, you know, people are looking and seeing stuff out there which I know true. People are saying they were pressured to give that very (Inaudible). Like there was pressure on us to convict, so which was not true. We went through everything, the evidence, the fact and everything before we make a decision.
DETERS: I think there's a lot of misconception out there about, yes, how could we have not known what was happening outside of the deliberation room and courtroom because a lot of stuff was happening while we were in court. And you know, we didn't. I think people need to know that due diligence was done and taken very seriously.
MITCHELL: We really took this very seriously. Each day we came in, we all were focused and locked in, and during the deliberation we were very attentive and kind of all on the same page in terms of this is something that we need to do.
LEMON: So, let's go back. Let's go to the jury room and to the deliberations. You have copious notes.
DETERS: Yes, I mean, so, I -- so here are my notes.
LEMON: Wow.
DETERS: These are my notes from the trial. So, it's what, four and five, four of the big and then this whole small one, too. So, the first thing we did was, one, we took off our masks and then we exchanged names. Well, we made sure everyone was comfortable with that, right. So made com -- made sure everyone was comfortable about taking off their mask and then made sure everybody was comfortable sharing names.
MITCHELL: I think some of us felt eager because we'd been holding this in for three and a half weeks.
DOUD: Yes.
MITCHELL: So, I feel it was something we would be finally able to get our thoughts out.
LEMON: So how did you guys approach it? Did you take a vote right away?
DOUD: Yes.
LEMON: You did?
DOUD: Yes.
LEMON: Tell me about that.
DOUD: We all voted right away just to kind of did a stance where we were all that, and of course we weren't all together, so we knew we had to take each step little by little. And we voted many times throughout the whole process.
LEMON: So, the first vote you took was it or any of them, were they anonymous? Did you do it by note or did you have --
(CROSSTALK)
DOUD: It was all anonymous.
DETERS: There were none.
DOUD: We just filled out a piece of paper.
LEMON: You had no idea.
DETERS: No.
LEMON: So, you had no idea. And so, what was that first vote?
(CROSSTALK)
[22:05:01]
DETERS: Then I kept track. So then when we voted I wasn't the foreperson, but I kept track of the yes's or the guilty and the not guilty and the undecided. And the first one which we all agreed to discuss was the manslaughter charge. And we --
LEMON: That was the first vote you took.
(CROSSTALK)
DETERS: That was the first.
LEMON: You didn't take an overall on everything. You did the manslaughter first.
DETERS: We did the manslaughter first.
LEMON: Yes.
DETERS: That was 100 percent guilty.
LEMON: The first one.
DETERS: But then and it was kind of like, wow, how did that happen? OK, let's go to the next one. But there were a couple of us that played devil's advocate. I know Sherri was one of them with me. And we said no, no, let's talk about --
HARDEMAN: Yes.
DETERS: -- what the defense is saying, though, as the opposite argument. Let's make sure we can rule out the reasons why it's not manslaughter from the defense side of things.
So, Jodi, actually we got a white board and Jodi went up and she started writing all of the defense arguments on the white board and then we discussed every one of those.
LEMON: Why was it important for you to, for devil's advocate because you wanted to make sure why --
HARDEMAN: I absolutely wanted to make sure that everyone was on the same page. I wanted to make sure that everyone was comfortable. I wanted to make sure that we were doing due diligence, and that we actually understood what our task was. There was no room for error at all.
DOUD: Yes. LEMON: No room for error.
HARDEMAN: Yes.
LEMON: All of you knew the manslaughter you felt that from the very beginning he's guilty.
EDORTH: So, yes, from the very beginning like you say. We went through the evidence right away. When we went back to the deliberation room, the first thing we did was to go to the evidence and the fact.
LEMON: Yes.
EDORTH: And going through the jury instruction about the manslaughter.
LEMON: How many times did you vote?
(CROSSTALK)
DETERS: We voted twice.
MITCHELL: We did a preliminary vote and then a final vote.
DOUD: The second charge was where we spent most of our time.
LEMON: You spend more -- OK. What happened?
DETERS: I think we did the same thing. A vote right away just to do a temperature check.
DOUD: Exactly.
DETERS: And I believe it was either four or five of us initially that said not guilty or undecided. So that one there was a split. I think we went through three or four different votes total before it got to all guilty. And so, we spent a long time, and that's where we actually -- this was -- you know, for me it was the first time I'd ever seen the video was in that courtroom, the whole thing. Because I never -- I couldn't watch it before then. And then we had to watch it over and over and over.
LEMON: The video.
DETERS: The video.
LEMON: And?
DETERS: And I can't even imagine what it was like for some of the other people in the room, but it's traumatic, right? And we actually had a discussion there was one juror that said let's not watch the video -- just watch a video again, I just can't stand anymore of it. And it's like, OK, look, we've got to find out. Like, that's where I think we watched it mainly just for the checking of the pulse, right?
And so, and we're like how many times did they check for a pulse? What exactly were the words said from one officer to the other? And so, we spent a lot of time there. We spent a lot of time going through all of our notes and the different testimonies of people. And so, that one took a long time to discuss.
LEMON: So out of all of it there were how many not guilty?
DETERS: I think it was five at first.
LEMON: And then.
DETERS: Five out of the 12.
LEMON: And then undecided?
DOUD: I don't -- I don't remember.
DETERS: I'm not sure there was even -- there may have been one undecided and four not guilty.
DOUD: Not guilty.
DETERS: Initially. We got to the point actually that we realized for charge two at some point, I think it was Jodi, I'm pretty sure it was Jodi said, wait a minute, does the intended act of harm have to be the death of George Floyd, or can it be him not providing the life support? And it was like, all of a sudden, the light bulbs just went on for those people I think were undecided or on the not guilty side.
LEMON: Yes. Go ahead. I want to hear from you, Jodi. Why is it, you brought that up. What did you --
DOUD: I brought that up.
LEMON: -- tell me what you brought up and why.
DOUD: I brought up to the fact that this is not what he did but more or less what he didn't do. He did not provide lifesaving measures for George Floyd when he knew that the guy was in pain or needed medical attention. Even the firefighter that was opposite said check his pulse, check his pulse. Well, then check his pulse and they said do you want to do anything? No, we're leaving him here.
He had ample to roll him over and start CPR and he didn't. He didn't move one bit. And even when the EMS came up and checked him, he never even got up.
[22:10:03]
And he knew he had been lifeless for 30 seconds to a minute. He still never stepped up and let the EMS come in and do their job. He had to have the EMS tap him to get up. That to me said more than what he actually did, that he just didn't do anything to help him at that time.
LEMON: Why do you think that was the light bulb? HARDEMAN: Well, when we were in deliberations and Jodi did bring that
up and we did look through everything very, very carefully what I thought about was something said during the trial. And that is the Minneapolis Police Department has a motto. And if I understand it correctly their motto, and in our custody, in our care. George Floyd was in their custody. He was never in their care. And that for me it just -- it just hit hard. I don't feel like they ever cared for him.
LEMON: There was a point where the prosecutors pointed out when the life left his body on that video. What was that moment like?
HARDEMAN: I had a big gasp. I've just -- I've never experienced anything like that before. I don't think any of us have. It was very, very traumatic. And it just -- just hurt. Just hurt my whole soul, my whole body. I felt pain for his family. It was very -- it was very hard. The whole experience has been hard.
EDORTH: When you see the video, the guy died like, three minutes, 29 and I'm thinking they (Inaudible) Chauvin pointed out when they left -- left the body.
LEMON: Is that deflect --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: Yes, you can see his eyes, he's conscious, and then you see that he isn't. That's the moment the life goes out of his body.
EDORTH: It was just like three minutes after he become unconscious. Now go through the whole evidence he was trying to (Inaudible) we see all that in the record. It was in the court that he has to provide first aid. He has to render aid.
LEMON: He didn't do it.
EDORTH: He didn't it.
LEMON: He didn't do it.
EDORTH: Yes.
LEMON: And so, after you brought that up, did you guys -- you didn't take a vote after that, right?
DETERS: Yes.
LEMON: And --
DETERS: Everybody was --
(CROSSTALK)
DOUD: No. There were still one or two that was still --
MITCHELL: I voted a few times.
DETERS: Yes, we did.
DOUD: On that particular vote, yes.
DETERS: I think I spoke up and said I was one of the ones that initially said I can't remember if my first vote was not guilty or undecided or whatever. And I think it was that main word intent. Do I believe that Derek Chauvin arrived on scene with the intent to murder George Floyd.
And the difference, the huge difference for me was when Jodi was like wait a minute, you know, and it was kind of like, my gosh, you're totally right. There is intent where to not provide lifesaving measures. When he knew three times there was no pulse.
LEMON: So, then you take a vote and everybody is OK with that, so you have the first two, right, and then you have to go to murder in the second degree. Unintentional murder in the second degree, and what was that one like?
EDORTH: It was just guilty.
DETERS: We started with the third charge which was manslaughter, and then we did the charge two which is where we decided he was guilty based on the not acting.
LEMON: Right.
DETERS: And then charge one which is the highest charge was the last one we voted on. And we did -- it did initially start all guilty, but once again devil's advocate we're like OK, let's actually discuss this, though. We may all feel this way but why do we feel this way.
LEMON: And so, devil's advocate you again you wanted to be sure.
HARDEMAN: I wanted to make sure that everyone understood, and we dissected each other's little paragraphs, and we just took our time with it. We were patient with it. Which was a little frustrating. I mean, you're locked up in a room, you can't go anywhere, but it had to be done, and we did it. We looked at each of those paragraphs. We dissected each of those sentences and made sure everyone understood and then we took another vote. So.
LEMON: Even though you debated that one, the toughest one was the second charge for you, correct?
DETERS: Yes.
DOUD: Yes.
LEMON: That one was the toughest.
HARDEMAN: Yes.
LEMON: If Derek Chauvin had testified, do you think that would have made any difference? MITCHELL: For me, no, not at all. The evidence was the evidence. I
don't think it would have changed anything. It would have been nice to hear, but it wouldn't have changed the outcome, I don't believe.
[22:15:00]
HARDEMAN: It would not have changed my -- my decision at all. Still trying to understand nine minutes and 29 seconds why, and I don't think that Derek Chauvin could explain that to me ever.
LEMON: Do you think it would have made a difference if you'd heard from him, if he had testified?
EDORTH: Maybe. Maybe he might justify his actions at that time. But --
LEMON: Did you want to hear from him?
EDORTH: Yes.
LEMON: You did.
EDORTH: Right.
LEMON: Why?
EDORTH: I want to hear what he had to say about the whole situation.
LEMON: You wanted to know from him why.
EDORTH: Yes, why.
LEMON: Did you -- did you wanted to hear from him?
DOUD: Yes, I did. I want to hear his side of the story.
LEMON: Yes. Do you want to hear from him?
DETERS: Yes, I would have like to have heard his side of the story.
LEMON: You want to hear from him?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
MITCHELL: Yes, I think we all wanted to hear from him. Whether it would have changed our perspective or not, --
LEMON: Yes.
MITCHELL: -- it's just -- for us, I mean, it's a traumatic experience. Kind of closure for us to hear what were you thinking? How did it get to this?
CHRISTENSEN: I don't think it would have made a difference. It would have been nice to hear his reasoning, why he did what he did. I keep thinking about this critical decision-making model that they kept trained on and they kept bringing up.
And it was supposed to be, you're supposed to constantly reassess the situation over and over again. And I don't think he -- once Mr. Floyd was on the ground, he was not reassessing Mr. Floyd's at all, his condition at all, what care he needed.
WILLIAMS: I agree exactly with what Lisa just said. That's what I kept referring to in my own mind was the reassessing of his actual situation at hand.
LEMON: This was about, you know, obviously the death of a man. But I'm sure you knew the whole racial aspect of it. You're very diverse and nobody was afraid to share their feelings on that?
HARDEMAN: Not at all. Race wasn't even ever mentioned in the three and a half weeks that we were in that courtroom. And it was never mentioned during deliberations I don't believe.
DOUD: No.
WILLIAMS: No.
DETERS: I think we got here because of systemic racism within the system, right? Because of what's going on. That's how we got to a courtroom in the first place. But when it came down to all three verdicts it was based on the evidence and the facts, 100 percent.
DOUD: Absolutely.
LEMON: You're shaking your head, Tossa, why?
EDORTH: I'm just with Nicole in the deliberation room, it was just the facts and the evidence and the jury and (Inaudible) so that was what we were following.
MITCHELL: Yes, a 100 percent agree. The fact of the matter is we were dealing with a murder case and we all decided that he was guilty of it regardless of race, creed or color.
LEMON: When we come back I want to talk about just how much of a role this video played, and was it as omnipresent in the jury room as it was in the deliberation room as it was in the media. We'll talk about that when we come back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Get up. You can't (Inaudible).
FLOYD: Momma. I can't.
UNKNOWN: You can't, I've been doing (Inaudible) but I told you, you can't win.
FLOYD: My neck. My neck. I'm through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (on camera): How much of a role did the videotape -- because the videotape was on all the time. Right? You said 9 minutes and 29 seconds.
HARDEMAN: Yes.
LEMON: That's how it got to be such a big story worldwide is because of that videotape. How much of a role did it play, Sherri, in this for the jurors?
HARDEMAN: It played a huge role. The camera doesn't lie, and it was in slow motion at times while you were sitting there in court. So, we could see every aspect of it, and we saw different angles from different cameras. There were cameras on that street, you know, monitoring traffic and crime and things like that. So, it -- it was hard. It played a huge role, though.
LEMON: Yes.
HARDEMAN: It truly did.
DETERS: I mean we know that there's police shootings happening all the time across this country. And I would probably guess that majority of them are founded, you know, and the appropriate action. But we also know there's a lot that aren't. And we don't have those video. We don't have those cameras rolling to show it.
And I think, you know, in some of the other cases we've seen over the last few years, nothing happens to these officers or there's not a trial like this. So, I think without those bystander videos, something would have happened but not something at this level, I don't believe.
LEMON: Lisa, I see you shaking your head back there. What do you think?
CHRISTENSEN: I agree without Ms. Frasier's video I don't think we'd be sitting here today, to be honest with you. It wouldn't have grabbed worldwide attention. Pictures and videos speak a thousand words. We could all see for ourselves that it wasn't the right thing Mr. Chauvin did, so action needed to be taken.
LEMON: You know, I can feel you guys, you have this camaraderie, you have this connection you'll have forever. But also, I feel a weight. This took a toll on you, didn't it? Lisa, did it?
CHRISTENSEN: Yes.
LEMON: And I wonder how much watching that video over and over, that had to -- that had to seep into your spirit. CHRISTENSEN: Right. I usually saw it on the news maybe two or three
minutes of it. I didn't see it in its entirety until I was in court. And seeing it day after day after day did wear on me. So much so sometimes I went home and just went in my room, shut the door and just went to bed for the rest of the day. It was exhausting.
[22:25:02]
LEMON: Why is that? Talk to me about that.
CHRISTENSEN: It was just emotional and to see somebody go through what Mr. Floyd went through when it could have been prevented, I just still can't wrap my mind around how a $20 counterfeit bill ended up in George Floyd's death? I mean, how is that even possible? It's surreal to me.
LEMON: Did it weigh on you? Did it weigh on you, Nichole?
WILLIAMS: Absolutely, yes.
LEMON: Talk to me about it. How so?
WILLIAMS: Well, seeing it I mean, I think the weight of the video just how many times we did see it was the importance of the video. And it was -- it was traumatic for sure.
LEMON: Was it the first time -- did anybody see it for the first time in the courtroom?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
MITCHELL: In its entirety, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
DETERS: Yes.
LEMON: You saw it for the first time in its entirety and?
DOUD: I almost wanted to shut my eyes. It bothered me so much, and it was mainly how could somebody do that to someone else? And it was a slow death. It wasn't just a gunshot and they're dead. It was a slow death and you are doing this. And it bothered me to the fact that a person can do this to another person. And I felt for George. I'm just like, and it just got to my core. It just -- when I first saw it, I think I watched maybe two seconds on the video on the news. I had to walk away. It bothered me so much somebody can do that to somebody.
LEMON: Did you take it home with you at night?
DOUD: Yes, very much so. I was very withdrawn, didn't talk much to my family, just leave me alone, let me be by myself, process. And I think still to this day it's had an effect on me.
DETERS: It was the first time I had seen the video in its entirety as well. In the back of my head you can't say anything, so in the back of my head I'm going, my God, my God, just breathe, just breathe. And I'm thinking to myself, George Floyd couldn't breathe.
Like, I'm telling myself to breathe so I don't pass out having to watch this. But I'm watching a man who couldn't breathe, and I was like how ironic is that? I thought about the three teenagers and the little girl that were there watching this. And it broke my heart as a mom. Like if my -- if those had been my kids, if my kids had to watch this and see this, I just -- I can't imagine the trauma.
LEMON: Sherri?
HARDEMAN: I saw glimpses of the video when it first started to circulate on social media. I didn't watch the entire video until I was in the courtroom as a juror. And watching it over and over you talk about is it in your spirit. It is definitely in my spirit and it will always be there.
Seeing that video and watching George Floyd call for his mom just broke my heart. Me being a mom, a black mom, a black grandmother, we call out for our mom when we're hurting, when we're in pain and when we're in need. And it just kind of haunts me. And I just -- it's something that will always live with me that that happened and that he called for his mom. And unfortunately, his mom could not come to his rescue. In fact, no one came to his rescue. And it's just -- it's heart breaking.
MITCHELL: Like this, I wanted to close my eyes. I didn't want to watch it. I had to force myself to continue looking at it. I mean, you want to turn away, you want to look at a wall. You want to look anywhere else, really. You want to look anywhere else, but it's like, you know, you look away you still hear him, you still hear him crying and moaning. And it's just -- it's like an ongoing nightmare. It's like you keep wanting to see the video, but it's like I'm tired of seeing it. I just don't ever want to see the video again. It really weighs on you a lot, a lot, a lot.
LEMON: I found myself watching the video saying -- talking to the video, talking to the screen like OK that's enough, it's enough. Did anybody have that experience? Like OK --
HARDEMAN: Definitely.
LEMON: Lisa, did you have that experience?
CHRISTENSEN: I did. I didn't understand why, you know, it kept going on and on and on and nobody was doing anything about it. I know the bystanders were trying to bring attention to Derek Chauvin by yelling at him, but he seemed defiant in what he was going to do.
The other officers were trying to bring, you know, the pulse situation, no pulse being there, and should we turn him over on his side in the recovery position? And I just didn't understand why none of that happened.
LEMON: Yes. There's still a lot more to talk about when it comes to this trial and what you went through. We'll be right back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILONISE FLOYD, GEORGE FLOYD'S BROTHER: My brother is not on trial. Chauvin is on trial. America is on trial right now. Minneapolis, Minnesota, they will have to get this right. We're tired of people being killed and slaughtered for anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:35:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): We know we talk about Derek Chauvin a lot. Let's talk about George Floyd. You know, as you guys are doing your thing I'm talking to the families. And the families -- the family felt like we're being put on trial. George Floyd is being put on trial. Did that ever -- did you ever feel George Floyd was being put on trial when it was actually Derek Chauvin who was on trial? Did you feel that way, Nichole?
WILLIAMS: Yes, especially after when I could actually look at what was being talked about in public eye and such.
LEMON: Was it a character assassination? Lisa?
CHRISTENSEN: I believe so.
LEMON: Why?
CHRISTENSEN: I've heard comments that George Floyd may have been led a life less than stellar, so why are we -- why are we putting him up and honoring him because of his past choices in life, which have absolutely nothing to do with it -- with the situation. And it makes me upset. It angers me that people can judge him based on his decisions he's made and his struggles in life, which has nothing to do with this. Everybody has a right to live and have dignity and --
LEMON: Did that play a role into did his life and what he did and -- did that play a role?
DOUD: In the decision?
DETERS: No.
DOUD: Not for me.
LEMON: Go ahead.
DOUD: In the decision? That didn't even come up in our deliberations.
DETERS: Well, --
LEMON: But the prosecution -- I mean the defense brought it up a lot.
DETERS: The overdosing, I mean that was something we did discuss. You know, it was there a potential that this was an overdose. It looked -- I mean I think when the girlfriend testified that was actually pretty damaging. It actually supported the overdose because of her testifying what happened I think in March or whatever before. That was all in that consideration. We did discuss it in the deliberation room, but it was ruled out pretty quickly.
DOUD: Yes, it was.
(CROSSTALK)
MITCHELL: It was ruled out quickly, yes. I know, for me, it wasn't a factor for me. As we were going through the evidence and somebody mentioned that. We just kind of briefly looked over it and was kind of like that's not it so let's keep going.
DETERS: I mean, here the cops were in the trunk trying to get what were they called again those straps or whatever --
DOUD: Yes.
DETERS: The hobble.
DOUD: The hobble.
DETERS: And in that same bag or the bag right next to it is the Narcan. You think he's on -- you talked about how he swallowed some pills or something.
DOUD: He's not.
DETERS: The Narcan is sitting right next to the hobble. Why aren't you using it?
LEMON: That he didn't comply, he fought back. Why are you making that face?
DOUD: I think some of the stuff that he did didn't help him, but I also agree with what Lisa said that it was a counterfeit $20 bill which doesn't even constitute being arrested. And when they did put the cuffs on him they never told him why. Even though they claim to, but that was after the fact. But they put cuffs on him before they even told him why they were handcuffing him.
So, I mean a lot of his actions probably didn't help the situation, but in the end-result the officers were in control, and they had him on the ground and that's when things changed.
LEMON: You guys are -- I mean, you know the evidence. I mean, you know -- you got into it. This wasn't some -- this wasn't just on a motion as most people around the country are looking at this through emotion. This is on the evidence. MITCHELL: Not even close. I think we all knew the evidence very well.
We all had different pieces of evidence that we all thought were more important than others. I mean, we're all different people so we view the evidence differently. And as we were going through that, there's so many different aspects of this that proved guilt.
LEMON: We're going to be back on the other side of this break, and we're going to talk more.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): More now with our exclusive interview with the jurors from the Derek Chauvin trial. What has it been like carrying this around, Lisa?
CHRISTENSEN: I guess what I needed to do after that first week I did go down to 38th and Chicago and I did pay my respects. And for me that was a closure, or at least I thought it was going to be a closure. Seeing everything, you know, we saw everything in court and on videos. But actually, being there and seeing it felt really, really, really real to me. So, it helped me kind of close the door a bit, but it's -- I think it'll be with me forever.
LEMON: You still feel it?
CHRISTENSEN: I do.
LEMON: This is a very personal question. Are you seeing anyone?
CHRISTENSEN: I was seeing somebody, yes.
LEMON: To talk about it.
CHRISTENSEN: Yes.
LEMON: Did it help?
CHRISTENSEN: Yes. And also, the court did offer us counseling if need be. So.
LEMON: And you needed it?
CHRISTENSEN: Yes.
EDORTH: I can see that video play in my mind right now while we're talking about it.
LEMON: The video plays over and over in your mind every day?
EDORTH: Yes. LEMON: How often?
EDORTH: I mean, I just have to hear the news, or somebody talk about the George or the Chauvin case and then, boom. It's right there. It's right there.
LEMON: What about you, Nichole?
WILLIAMS: Very stressful. Thankful to have a husband and a dog. Dog helped me through a lot when I couldn't talk to anybody else for sure.
[22:45:03]
LEMON: You think you'll be OK?
WILLIAMS: I think so. But I --
LEMON: Do you worry?
WILLIAMS: Yes, a lot.
LEMON: Why?
WILLIAMS: Wake up with nightmares and see it sometimes especially when other people will talk about it when they don't know where I was. But, yes, it's something I will never forget no matter how much therapy I've already done.
LEMON: Yes.
WILLIAMS: So, yes.
DETERS: It's really hard for me to watch the news. I can read it better than I can watch it, so I keep up on some things, you know, through print, media and online media. But I can't really watch the news any --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: It's too much.
DETERS: It really is.
LEMON: Do you think you guys will ever be the same?
HARDEMAN: No.
DOUD: No.
LEMON: Why not, Sherri?
HARDEMAN: We talked about spirit. We mentioned spirit earlier, and that's so on point. I mean it's in me. It's with me. It's part of who I am now. I have a very supportive family that I'm thankful for. I have done some therapy and probably need to do some more so I can learn how to cope and deal with this. My everyday life I try to push this to the back of my thoughts, and,
you know, go about my daily task taking care of grandkids, taking care of the house, taking care of family. Then like someone said there's a trigger. There's something on the news or there's an e-mail or there's something that brings it all back. And then I feel like I start to kind of hyperventilate or breathe, you know, a bit differently, so I have to calm myself down.
It's been -- it's been a life changing experience, and I just hope that I represented my community and all of parents, all the mothers who have lost someone like Valerie Castille and there's so many to be named. I just hope that I have done my due diligence and my civic duty and represented.
MITCHELL: I mean, there's so much stuff going on with the media and you see so many things, and I was just like, it just brings back those emotions. It brings back the emotions of how you felt when you were watching the video. And just finding different ways to deal with it. Just finding different ways to deal with that trauma of seeing this and being part of this.
LEMON: Are you sure you're OK? Are you guys sure that you're OK?
DETERS: I think we're the best we can be.
DOUD: Yes.
DETERS: Or we're doing the best we can be at this moment.
LEMON: Did you -- did it change anything for you, any of your perspectives on policing, on community, on race, on anything? Did anybody have any sort of epiphany, or I'm sure it was a learning experience. Anyone? You, Nichole?
WILLIAMS: Definitely learning experience. There's no way to wrap your head around all of it. So, yes, I had my opinions on things, but I think this really did shine on a light on a lot of other things that I didn't know about which helped me for sure.
LEMON: What's the most important thing that the country or the world can get from this, Lisa?
CHRISTENSEN: Well, I know in Minnesota they passed a police reform, which it deals with excessive force. So, some no-knock warrants where they just come into your house, retraining use of force. That did pass. I know we do have a question on the ballot now about whether we should disband the police department and replace it with a public safety department.
So, I guess that's the area that I'm more interested in becoming more involved with to actually see what I can do to make any of this right or change for the better to get more involved.
LEMON: When we come back, the message jurors from the Derek Chauvin trial have for the family of George Floyd and for Derek Chauvin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (on camera): There are a lot of people out there who are going to find out who you are now, and your names are going to be released and now your faces will be out there. How do you feel about that?
DOUD: Nervous.
LEMON: You're nervous. Why?
DOUD: I don't -- I don't want to talk anymore. This is my one and done. I don't want the media at my door. I don't want -- I want to go on with my life.
LEMON: You're nervous.
DETERS: Yes.
LEMON: Why?
DETERS: I think, you know, there's a divide in the country on people I think the majority of the people who support our verdict but then there's a portion that don't, and we know that people can be extreme and emotional, and so that makes me worried. I also have, you know, a kid that's still in high school and we know kids can be really cruel sometimes to other kids, and so I worry about the effects for my children as well and what they'll get from people.
LEMON: Are you nervous about it, are you concerned?
HARDEMAN: I was nervous and concerned but now I'm feeling like this is my story. I've shared a little bit with you. The media can come and find me, but I don't have to share anymore. I don't have to say anymore. This is -- this is very personal and private and the public part, I feel like I've done my due diligence with the decision that me and my fellow jurors made.
[22:55:09]
LEMON: Are you -- are there people in your life now who are going to find out who had no idea?
DOUD: Yes. Yes.
HARDEMAN: Relatives.
LEMON: Huh?
HARDEMAN: Relatives, close friends.
DOUD: Yes. LEMON: They -- who have no idea.
HARDEMAN: They have no idea.
LEMON: And?
HARDEMAN: Now they will.
LEMON: Nichole.
WILLIAMS: Now they will.
LEMON: Anything you guys would like -- anybody would like to say to the Floyd family.
DOUD: We feel for you. We're sorry. We hope as a group we did the right thing.
DETERS: Absolutely.
LEMON: Is there anything that you -- any one of you would like to say to Derek Chauvin? Anybody?
DOUD: Why?
DETERS: Yes. What were you thinking? Why?
DOUD: Why? Why? Why did you do this? Why didn't you get up. That's been the question in everybody's mind. Why did you stay there so long. Why?
LEMON: Why? Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: A lot of people still asking that question why, why did George Floyd have to die, why did Derek Chauvin do what he did. As I said right after that verdict was rendered, the jury has spoken. They spoke when they rendered the verdict. Now they have spoken out publicly for the first time and most of them, many of them, if not all, wanted to be their only time to speak out. They don't want the media at their door.
In this moment, it is tough for them, because they are concerned about their safety. They're concerned about their families. They're concerned about living in that community, and they're even concerned at the law enforcement in that community protecting them or not protecting them, and I think they deserve to be protected and they deserve to be -- deserve to be respected in this moment.
They did their duty as American citizens and they served their country in a moment of crisis.
A lot more on our breaking news here straight ahead here on CNN. President Biden is in Rome, but he's arrived without the vote that he was hoping for on his transformative agenda. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
