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Don Lemon Tonight

CDC Out With A New Guideline; COVID-19 Disrupts People's Way Of Life; New York City Mandates Vaccination; Health Care Workers Exhausted By Never-Ending Virus; Teenager Killed Inside Dressing Room; Ghislaine Maxwell Could Spent Decades In Prison; January 6th Committee Following The Money Trail. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired December 27, 2021 - 22:00   ET



MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST (on camera): I wasn't even thinking of January 6th, but if you throw January 6th into the mix, I was really only thinking of COVID, then I guess that's the tie breaker.

Well, thank you so much for watching. I'll be back here one more night, tomorrow night. Don Lemon begins in a minute with my friend Laura Coates sitting in. Take it away, Laura.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Hey, Michael, great show tonight. And wow, that story with that mother. That was just unbelievable to hear that story. I'm glad you shared that. It's important to hear it. Thank you.

SMERCONISH: I wish, Laura, I wish it had a happy ending.


SMERCONISH: It doesn't, at least not yet.

COATES: There are so many people -- especially during COVID. You're talking about the people who have had increasing amounts of addiction, of overuse, over abuse, over, you know, it's just unbelievable what we're seeing right now and COVID --


COATES: -- has exacerbated so many things. So, these stories are important and there's more to come I'm sure, unfortunately.

SMERCONISH: Have a good program.

COATES: Thank you.

This is DON LEMON TONIGHT. I'm Laura Coates in for Don Lemon.

And Omicron is surging across this country. The U.S. is now averaging more than 200,000 new COVID cases every single day. That's the highest number since January.

That as there is big news tonight for anyone who has tested positive for COVID. The CDC announced shortening the recommended time that you should isolate if you test positive but don't have symptoms. Cutting that period of isolation now from 10 days to now five days. But you should still wear a mask around others for at least five more days.

Now tonight, Dr. Fauci is saying the new guidelines are a good idea to get people back to work and keep our society running smoothly.


ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It just makes sense if you keep them out for five days, keep them isolated for five days then get them back, doing their job, doing their work, keeping a mask on to protecting themselves from infecting other individuals.


COATES (on camera): People across the country lining up and sometimes for hours just trying to get COVID tests. President Joe Biden admits the hard truth. We don't have the testing we need with Omicron surging.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's not enough. It it's clearly not enough if I had -- we've known we would have gone harder, quicker if we could have. We have to do more. We have to do better and we will.


COATES (on camera): The Biden administration has promised to make 500 million tests available in the first couple weeks of January with 200 to 500 million tests per month after that. But with New Year's Eve now just four days away, Dr. Fauci says forget the big party this year.


FAUCI: When you're talking about a New Year's Eve party, we have 30, 40, 50 people celebrating, you do not know the status of the vaccination. I would recommend strongly stay away from that this year. There will be other years to do that but not this year.


COATES: CNN's Alexandra Field has the latest on the news from the CDC tonight.


ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Tonight, new guidance from the CDC, people infected with COVID who are asymptomatic can shorten their isolation from ten days to five and then wear a mask around others for five more. Those who are exposed and are vaccinated should quarantine for five days while those who are boosted may not need to quarantine at all after an exposure.

All this as the country deals with the strain of an Omicron surge.

FAUCI: We're certainly going to continue to see a surge for a while. I hope we peak and come down quickly.

FIELD: As infections spread rapidly, health officials still believe those who are vaccinated and boosted should remain well protected from severe disease but there are consequences affecting everyone.

DIANA RICHARDSON, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, TUFTS MEDICAL CENTER: We have, as of this morning, 115 staff members out ill with COVID who have tested positive.

FIELD: Federal emergency response teams are already working to ease the burden on health care workers in Colorado, Michigan, Minnesota, Vermont, New Hampshire and New Mexico as COVID related staffing shortages cripple more industries.

New York City now running fewer subway trains with too many workers out sick and airlines are at their busiest time of year leaving even more passengers stranded just about everywhere. Domestically, 1,000 more flights cancelled today and more than 2,500 globally.

UNKNOWN: The reason that our flight was cancelled is because of lack of flight attendants so yes, on Delta. So, I guess, it's sad. It's just really sad.

FIELD: Four cruise ships with reported cases of COVID were turned away from their ports of call in all too familiar reminder of when it all started. Sports are not immune, either. The Military Bowl and the Fenway Bowl among the latest games cancelled as more holiday plans get scrapped this year, the struggle to get COVID tests just too real. At a busy site in Miami, the wait is more than two hours.


Alexandra Field, CNN, New York.


COATES (on camera): Alexandra Field, thank you so much.

Now I want to bring in Dr. Megan Ranney, she is professor of emergency medicine and associate dean of public health at Brown University.

Thank you for being here, Dr. Ranney. It's nice to see you.

But my goodness, that package we just played it's unbelievable the amount of chaos this is actually wreaking on our society and we all thought, I think, in many ways we were kind of at the tail end. That we were maybe hoping too soon. What do you think?

MEGAN RANNEY, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE, BROWN UNIVERSITY: I feel like this virus just keeps playing games with us. We keep thinking we're at the end. We're all going to get vaccinated and it's going to be better. We'll all going to get boosted and it's going to be better. Well, now here's Omicron just in time for the holidays. It feels so unfair for the general public and certainly for my fellow health care workers who are once again facing a surge in our hospitals.

But there is one really big difference, Laura, between now and a year ago. And that is the vaccines. As much as Omicron is wreaking havoc on our economy right now, the number of hospitalizations and deaths are not what they would have been last year at this time without vaccines. It is just a dramatic difference in the hospitals. As much as we are struggling, the vaccines have made a difference.

COATES: You're absolutely right. I can't underscore that point enough the vaccines have made a difference. We all remember last year, a year from now watching the number on the right side of our screen ticking up and we are horrified because each number was a loss of life a human being, a family who would be interrupted forever and looking at this time right now, it is certainly different, however, it's still there.

We still have to be cautious and actually, that's been a pretty big news tonight with the CDC, Dr. Ranney, now shortening isolation times from 10 days to now five days if you don't have symptoms. Was this the right move, I mean, even for the unvaccinated and is this a good time now to have done that?

RANNEY: So, the science backs up for people vaccinated and asymptomatic after about five days, we are very unlikely to be infectious. And the CDC added on those five days of masking after that five-day period of isolation just to be extra sure.

The thing that concerns me, as you said, is that this covers not just the vaccinated and asymptomatic but also the unvaccinated. And I feel like we already saw in May what happens when we say hey, the vaccinated can go without a mask but the unvaccinated need to wear it. Well, nobody wore masks after that point and my worry here is that we're going to have a bunch of folks who are still infectious out and about unmasked spreading the virus further.

COATES: That's true. I mean, the idea of the wind fall that happens for so many people who think well, you know what? As long as you're doing the right thing over there, I'll benefit without doing it myself. It's a difficult thing to be in.

What about people who actually are showing symptoms, though? I mean, if they isolate for five days and then they test negative, are they then good to go, Dr. Ranney?

RANNEY: That's a great question. The CDC guidance isn't clear on this. What I am telling people is, if you're symptomatic, sore throat, fever, body aches, headache, cough, please don't go out and about until you have finished that full 10-day isolation period or until you've been asymptomatic for a couple days.

If you want to be extra cautious, having a negative rapid antigen test, those at-home test like the Binax can be an added layer of certainty on top of it. If you're someone who is quite careful but the big thing is if you have symptoms, please don't take this as license to go out and about.

COATES: Let's talk travel about being out and about. Dr. Fauci has now clarified his comments on vaccine mandates for airline travel. Listen to this, doc.


FAUCI: Right now, I don't think people should expect that we're going to have a requirement in domestic flights for people to be vaccinated. When I was asked that question, I gave an honest answer. It's on the table and we consider it but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. I doubt if we're going to see something like that in the reasonably foreseeable future.


COATES (on camera): Well, doctor, what do you think about mandates for domestic air travel, should we see that in the relative near future as in right now?

RANNEY: I think Dr. Fuci is being politically honest. I find it very improbable that we would get mandates for domestic air travel. Just look at the state of the mandates for health care workers, right? For folks who are protecting other people's health on a daily basis. Those who have been held up in the courts.

But from a scientific or public health perspective, I would love to see vaccine mandates for domestic airplane flights. It would protect both those on the flights, the flight attendants and the places that people are traveling to. We also know that mandates are a great way to drive up the number of people that get vaccines.


It would do an awful lot of good for the long term for this country and for getting us out to the other side of COVID.

COATES: So, Christmas has now passed but of course, the New Year's Eve is a few days away. And still a time for people to gather. What is your recommendation on when people should test before and after gathering with a group? I mean, so many just spent time with their families for Christmas. And with nearest head, what's next? What should they be doing?

RANNEY: You know, my text messages are already full of folks who caught COVID over the last week in family gatherings. So, you know, my advice to people is, if you are getting together with folks on New Year's, to almost expect that there is going to be someone there who is infectious.

The best way to avoid that is to make sure everyone you're getting together with is vaccinated and boosted if eligible, and to ask everyone to do a rapid antigen test. I know how tough they are to get but if you can get your hands on them, those Binax now or the like right before the gathering. Not that morning but really within an hour of getting together. COATES: So important to hear. Thank you, Dr. Ranney, for your time. i

appreciate it.

RANNEY: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: I mean, you've heard it. Thousands of cancelled flights every day because there aren't enough healthy crews to actually staff them. You have professional leagues to college ball games cancelled because there aren't enough healthy people on the roster.

Long lines because there aren't enough COVID tests to go around. I mean, supply chain because there are not enough truck drivers. Hospitals turning away patients because there aren't enough nurses and doctors and medical hospital staff to treat them. And why? Because there is one area where we still have an embarrassment of riches. That area, vaccines.

While many countries struggle to provide even a single vaccine shot to their citizens, United States has the great fortune of not one but three vaccines but the misfortune of supply outpacing demand.

People who have done everything that was asked of them socially distanced, worn the mask, taken the shots, gotten the boosters, they're still vulnerable. Still inconvenienced and their normal, whatever that is, still denied because of the refusal of others to get vaccinated.

Because we give them the option to opt out of vaccination and I guess test negative while our economy and livelihoods and our patients are negatively tested.

Now, I don't mean people who are actually entitled to opt because of a religious or health exception. I'm talking about people who opt out simply because they subscribed to the philosophy of you can't tell me anything.


GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I just think people are so sick of constantly being bossed around, restricted, mandated, all these different things. We've had enough of it and we want people to be able to make their own decisions.

REP. GLENN GROTHMAN (R-WI): It is such a gross grab of power to think you can tell other people what you have to do with your open body.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): I encourage people to get vaccinated but I believe in individual choice. I believe that you can make the decision about your health care with your doctor.


COATES (on camera): Too many people demand freedom while their actions limit the freedom of others. The same people who seem to appreciate and adhere to a social contract that's vital to civilized society from speed limits to taxes, but they draw an arbitrary line at what has killed more than 800,000 Americans in two years.

Now, mayors across the country are saying enough is enough and drawing their own lines. Today, a vaccine mandate with no ability to opt out and test goes into effect for private employers in New York City. Everyone 12 years old and up has to show proof of full vaccination to dine in at restaurants, to go to the movies, to work out in gyms or attend any kind of indoor performance.

Children ages 5 to 11, they, too, have to show proof of at least one shot to do the same. And New York is not alone. Major cities like Los Angeles and Seattle and San Francisco and Boston and Chicago, New Orleans and even Washington, D.C. have all tightened their restrictions.

With each mayor saying the equivalent of look, you want to enjoy the benefits of our city, you got to do what benefits our city.


With the Omicron variant wreaking havoc and nine more letters in the Greek alphabet that are just waiting for a variant to name, cities have no option but to get tough and to limit access to try to confine the spread.

You know, if the definition of insanity is to do the same thing and expect different results, then it would be insane to give unvaccinated people a key to the city and still expect to keep the doors open.

Next, instead of taking well deserved vacations, they're taking 16- hour shifts. I'll speak with a hospital worker in an area with one of the highest rates of infection in the entire country after this.


COATES (on camera): Omicron is surging, hospitals across the country are stretched to their breaking points and taking a severe toll on the front-line healers that we all depend on. And one of those healers worries things are only going to get worse.

Joining me now, Dr. Graham Carlos, executive medical director of Eskenazi Health in Indianapolis. I'm glad you're here, doctor. Thank you for taking the time to be here.

I remember it wasn't that long ago we were all applauding day in and out because of such gratitude front line workers and to see the shortages yet again, to see the moral, to see the number of people coming and being overwhelmed. What are you seeing on the ground right now? Is this where we were last year and a year before that, as well?

GRAHAM CARLOS, EXECUTIVE MEDICAL DIRECTOR, ESKENAZI HEALTH: It's overwhelming, Laura. I rounded this morning in the intensive care units where I saw about 20 patients, about 12 had COVID, 10 were unvaccinated. We talked to the nurses and therapists caring for them and day after day, we just continue to feel the stress and fatigue that comes with caring for these critically ill patients. It's been, it's been a long haul. [22:20:08]

COATES: It's got to be hard. Because as you said that, I'm doing the numbers in my head and thinking I would want to turn to them and say why? What are you doing? Why are there 20, 12 people without a vaccine here? Is there some reason? Do you want to have these conversations or are you debating the notion I have to provide care, I can't have this sort of adult debates right now but it's got to be very frustrating not to just speak your mind about how frustrating that is.

CARLOS: Well, we're used to in medicine taking care of people who have all kinds of medical conditions that maybe stem from making unwise choices. What gets really hard is that to do our jobs well, we need all of our heads, our hearts and our hands. And the first thing to go when you're over worked and stressed is your heart. And the ability to show up and have that compassion for a patient becomes jeopardized and that leads to moral distress and burnout and it's written on the faces of a lot of my colleagues.

That being said, Laura, one of the reasons that we all go in and do this together is we have a love of people and a love of each other. I'm really proud of health care workers, not only in Indiana but all around the country. I am still very proud of all everybody is doing stepping up and stepping in.

COATES: I'm proud, as well. And very, very grateful and, you know, Indiana lags compared to the country as a whole and there are plenty of people who are fully vaccinated. Are the unvaccinated most of the people you're seeing in the hospital and I know you said 10 of 12 maybe today, but just how sick are they getting?

I mean, a lot of people think Omicron is not that bad. It's more contagious but less severe. How is that playing out in real-time?

CARLOS: Well, sadly, I had a patient who I lost recently who was fully vaccinated but was immunosuppressed. So, the vaccines didn't take as well for her as they might have if you had a normal immune system.

And then I'm seeing some patients who have severe diseases such as COPD who are on oxygen and when they get a breakthrough infection with Omicron, they become very ill. So, we are seeing patients who are fragile who get Omicron and now it need to be in the hospital, so that's the current situation.

COATES: Doctor, I want to show you it's on the screen for a second, I want to go back. There is something on the screen I want you to see because it's a chart really of the latest spike in hospitalizations in your state. I know you're worried that it's only going to get worse.

As you put it, a tidal wave of infections is going to hit hospital systems. What does that mean for all the front-line workers two years into this pandemic, not just in Indiana but across this country, frankly?

CARLOS: Yes, we're holding our breath so to speak watching the cases climb. We are anxious about breakthrough infections, some of which have already occurred in my colleagues and I know Dr. Ranney who's on earlier had the same. And we're wondering how we're going to be able to rise to meet this challenge. And we're fearful because the worst thing for us in health care is to see people suffer and it's scary to not have the equipment, the personnel to take care of the patients.

So, we are -- we're anxious. We're holding our breath and it's just adding another layer of stress on top of an already stressful situation.

COATES: Not to mention, I can imagine there is a feeling of guilt at times because you are human just like everyone else who works in hospitals. You want to be there all the time. You have the compassion. You've been drawn, it's a calling for you I would assume.

And you told the New York Times recently that after working three weeks straight in the ICU you were asked to pick up a shift and you declined and you felt guilty about that. Now talk to me what you've been feeling emotionally through all of this. It's got to be a very difficult balance for you and many others.

CARLOS: Yes. A lot of us in health care I think resonate with this. I promised my oldest daughter I'd take her Christmas shopping and I had some housework to do, I had to clean the gutters. And it was day off. And when I declined the extra shift, I felt guilty all day.

When I'm at work working late, I feel guilty for not being home at the dinner table and when I'm at home taking a day off, I feel guilty because I have a skill set that can help patients in the hospital. I don't want to let my colleagues down either.

So, guilt is just one of the myriads of emotions that all of us in health care feel. Frustration, sadness, sometimes despair just with everything that's going on, a lot of people, Laura, work hard. I'm the son of a cop who worked three jobs to put food on the table and I am so proud of everybody in all primary responders who work so hard to keep us safe.


Health care, in particular is under enormous amount of stress and strain right now with the Omicron variant causing breakthrough infections, hospitalizations on the rise and health care workers are themselves getting sick with breakthrough infections. So, it's a difficult situation as we talked about in the times.

COATES: Dr. Carlos, thank you for what you're doing and for also being so honest what it's been like for people. We hear about the stress. We hear about the declining moral. We know and understand and appreciate what you're doing. I hope that you see that from the outside looking in as well. Thank you.

CARLOS: Thank you, Laura and thank you for having us on the air and sharing our story with America. I'm really proud of everybody in Indiana and I hope I represented you all well tonight. Thank you.

COATES: I'm certain they think you did. I appreciate it.

Police shoot at a suspect, and accidently kill a 14-year-old girl. And tonight, the body cam video is released. We've got that for you, that's up next.


COATES (on camera): Breaking news, the Los Angeles Police Department releasing new video in the fatal shooting of a 14-year-old girl who was killed in a department store dressing room as police fired on an assault suspect nearby. Nine-one-one calls, store surveillance video and police body camera footage all providing new information about this tragedy.

CNN's Kyung Lah has been going through all of this new video, which I warn you is very disturbing. Kyung joins me now. Kyung --



LEMON: It's unbelievable.

LAH: It's -- it is really difficult when you watch this video. And the reason why the LAPD is releasing this is that they want people in the community to see what the officers were facing and what they experienced, so they did release all this video, the store surveillance video, as well.

but in this body camera video what the LAPD made clear is that before they engage the suspect that they have responded to multiple calls of a possible shooting in progress in the store and they came across a victim who was injured and an attacker who was nearby when they fired.


UNKNOWN: Victim down, victim down! Hey, hold on. Hey, slow down, slow down, let me take point with the rifle. Hey, back up.

UNKNOWN: Get out, he's got a tube.

UNKNOWN: Hey, get her out, get her out.

UNKNOWN: You got it? You got it?


UNKNOWN: OK. On you.

UNKNOWN: He's hitting her now on the right-hand side.

UNKNOWN: Slow down, slow down, slow down. Slow it down.

UNKNOWN: Hey, she's bleeding! She's bleeding!

UNKNOWN: Hold up, hold up, Jones. Hold up, hold up. UNKNOWN: I got --

UNKNOWN: Shots fired, shots fired, shots fired.


COATES (on camera): What led up to this point, Kyung?

LAH: Well, I mentioned the store surveillance video and the reason why the LAPD also released this is that what they wanted to show is that over many, many minutes there was a man acting erratically inside the store and you can see him there just swinging a bike lock, a metal bike lock at a woman and then he's going to grab her and you see her there pulling her by her hair and then he continues to strike her until she is bloody.

And that's why the LAPD says they did engage the suspect.

COATES: And Valentina Orellana-Peralta is the 14-year-old girl who tragically died here. I think the family is going to speak tomorrow, is that right?

LAH: Yes, her mother and her father they are going to be speaking on the steps of the Los Angeles Police Department headquarters and it's something that we can't forget here. This is a 14-year-old girl who was at the Burlington department store shopping with her mother and ran into a dressing room because of a man acting violently.

And one of the 1911 calls, Laura, there was an employee saying hide. Run. Hide. It's something that unfortunately in America we are now all too used to. That if there is something happening in a crowded space, run and hide. And so, they were in the dressing room and they were on the other side of the drywall when the law enforcement fired one of the bullets skipped off the floor penetrated the drywall.

This 14-year-old girl was in her mother's arms. They were praying according to her family when she died, shot in the chest.

COATES: Kyung, that's so heartbreaking. And when you were saying they, I kept wondering who was with her, and wondering if she was trying to call her parents, call her family and to hear that she was in her mother's arms, I can't imagine what her own mother is going through now. I know you're a mother, as well, Kyung. Thank you for joining.

LAH: You bet.

COATES: And joining me now the former captain of the Missouri State Highway Patrol, Ron Johnson. He was also the incident commander in Ferguson during the unrest after the shooting of Michael Brown.

I'm glad that you're here. Captain Johnson, this story is unbelievably sad to hear about the bullet skipping off of an area and going into this dressing room where she's trying to hide from what is erratic behavior. The question for you is from what you see on this video was deadly force necessary at this point to even use that would lead to her death?

RON JOHNSON, RETIRED CAPTAIN, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: You know, from what I've seen in the video, the officers were using their training. The subject was using deadly force against the victim in the store and it appears that the subject was attempting to move away from the officers and the officers in their mind, yes, they know that he's swinging a chain but also went there to the store believing it was an active shooter.

And so, to allow him to move throughout the store, he could encounter other victims, take hostages. And so, I think in that moment, the officers were reacting to what they knew and what they saw the victim that was standing in front of them.

COATES: I mean, we did see the idea of swinging this bike lock, we know this kind of metal contraption at the very end of a bike lock hitting repeatedly somebody until she was bloodied and dragging somebody down a hall. Obviously, horrible happening.

Criminal behavior as you know, but the video also shows 10 officers, they're all armed against one suspect and given what he's doing, they of course cautiously enter the store in what they call out as a, calling it a diamond formation where one officer takes the lead with a rifle and then things escalate when the blood is seen.

What does that say to you about their response to tactic, the strategy? Was it proper training and do they executed to the best of their ability as you can see from there?


JOHNSON: From what I can see they did actually to the best of their ability. The rifle was in the front. And I think that officer wanted to be in the front. You hear a supervisor; I believe or someone say put the rifle in the front to be more accurate in your encounter with the suspect. You didn't see a bunch of officers firing.

I think we see a total of two or three shots. And so, I think once they neutralized the subject, they stopped. And so, they were using their training, they were working as a team and it is tragic. You know, when I hear the young lady died in her mother's arm and I have kids and so, it is tragic.

I think after incidents like this they'll go back and look at everything and see what could have been done different, if something should have been done different. And I do like they were really transparent in releasing this video.

COATES: So, in terms of training you mentioned that here the training. Is there training for some, I mean, a crowded store. They've got lot of people inside. You think you might be responding to an active shooter you just said. The idea of responding to somebody who is using dangerous force if not deadly himself over a woman being beaten with this bike lock.

Is there training for such, I mean, in these environments at that point in time?

JOHNSON: Yes, there is. Officers train in schools and different businesses and stores and so officers do receive that training. You know, if we look back at training throughout the country, the P -- LAPD has been some leaders in some of that training that we see across the country.

COATES: And but for what we've seen in recent years of officer- involved shootings, do you think that we would have the transparency as this quickly or has what happened over the last several months to years really reinforced this notion of having transparency to either restore or fortify credibility with officers and the community? What do you think?

JOHNSON: I think what happened over the recent years has been pivotal in departments across this country being more transparent but we have to ensure that we're always transparent. We can't pick and choose when we want to be transparent. And so, it has made a difference. I think this is what our citizens want and demand.

COATES: Well. there's still more to learn. I'm so sorry to hear about this young woman's loss. I'm sure we'll hear more --


COATES: -- in the days to come. Her family, all of our thoughts. I appreciate your time.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

COATES: Now, she was Jeffrey Epstein's girlfriend and long-time associate and the jurors deciding if she'll spend the next 70 years in prison, well, they've got a lot of questions. Stay with us.



COATES (on camera): The jury in the Ghislaine Maxwell sex trafficking trial offering new clues about their deliberations sending 12, yes, 12 notes to the judge. They've been asking for transcripts of witness testimony and for the legal definition of the word enticement.

Today, their final question was about count number four, transporting a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual activity. Maxwell is charged with six counts for her alleged efforts to groom underaged girls to be sexually abused by her close companion Jeffrey Epstein.

Witnesses claim Maxwell sometimes participated in the abuse. Other charges include sex trafficking of minors, enticing a minor to travel to engage in illegal sex acts and three counts of conspiracy.

I want to bring in criminal defense attorney extraordinaire Joey Jackson. He's also CNN legal analyst. I'm glad you're here, Joey.

It's the year of the trial and this one is in line of what we're seeing a lot at time right now. Joey, I have to ask you, I mean, there is 12 notes from the jury, 12. Just about 24 hours of deliberating. If you're defending Maxwell, what would be going through your mind at this point right now?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. So, Laura, good to be with you.

So, there are a number of things. Obviously, with the jury out and then struggling from a defense perspective you're thinking you did your job. Remember about the process, Laura, that we know well. There is 12 people on a jury from different walks of life having different perspectives and you're asked to do quite a bit because you have to reach that unanimous decision.

All of you have to be in a court to convict someone or to find them not guilty and that is a massive responsibility, right? It will have to weigh on you for the rest of your life so you want to get it right. So, from a defense perspective, you remember what the defense did here.

There is four particular girls then, young women now. And the defense really challenged their memories by calling a psychologist to talk to the issue of faulty memory to talk about suggestion, and also question their motivations, right? This fund that was established and how perhaps they were partaking in that.

And so, I think what the jury wants to do is they want to get it right. One of the notes saying hey, can we have supplies? We want highlighters, we want a chalk pad, we want so many things because I think they're looking at the timeline. They're looking at any consistencies or inconsistencies.

They're looking at any corroboration with respect to Jane, with respect to Kate, with respect to Miss (Inaudible), with respect to all of the women, right now women with regard to those allegations and what they were and do those allegations make up enough of a crime which would constitute Ms. Maxwell --


JACKSON: -- being guilty, not Mr. Epstein but Ms. Maxwell being guilty. So, I think it's a massive responsibility they have. but if I'm the defense, I'm feeling not so bad.

COATES: If I'm the prosecutor in this case, and I used to prosecute delayed sexual reaction cases and the first thought always was the idea that the person would be attacked for their credibility, they'd be attacked to figure out why now? You wonder if the jury would understand the reasons to delay reporting of instances like this and when you combine the idea of money even having any role in it, you start to wonder if the jury is going to be off, you know, put off by the whole incident of it.

But you mentioned one thing, Joey. It's interesting because you said not Epstein. You know, the defense went to great lengths really to try to let the jury be persuaded by the notion that she was scapegoated, that they were only prosecuting her because Epstein was not available having killed himself prior to ever seeing his trial.

Do you think that's a successful or persuasive notion this idea of this is a scapegoat, this is somebody who is just being brought in here because we couldn't get him? Did they do a good job with that? Are the questions alluding to that very notion?

JACKSON: So, I think so. And look, I think if you look and analyze and you look at the fact that in 2019, they had Epstein but he committed suicide so as a result of that, they had to pivot so someone else that would be her. Using this prosecution as to say if you're an enabler you're just as guilty. If you're facilitating, you're just as guilty.

But what the defense I think was very effective in doing was saying she is not Mr. Epstein. That is the person who indeed committed these offenses. She may have been an associate of Mr. Epstein but she was just as misled by Mr. Epstein as all of them were.


And so, I think it was an argument they raised that was pretty powerful whether it will carry the day, of course, Laura, we don't yet know but I think the defense made extraordinary headway of calling into doubt whether or not the victims here could be believed, whether or not the victims here had changes in their testimony over the course of time, and whether or not it's compelling enough to hold her accountable and whether she did indeed enable.

And so that's an open question. Twenty-four hours in, Laura, we'll see whether or not they're able to come to some conclusion soon enough.

COATES: You know, one of the issues they had, they asked for definition of the word enticement. Right? The devil is in the details and they got to know the elements of the crime, they got to know the legal definition, not the colloquial use of the term, what it means in terms of what the prosecution had to prove.

When they asked for the definition of enticement, were you concerned as a defense counsel or were you thinking that the prosecution are the ones to be concerned there?

JACKSON: So, you know, it could always cut both ways, right? Because if they're looking for enticement, are you thinking now does that mean that they're suggesting that is the jury that there was some kind of lawyering, there was some kind of attraction. There was some kind of, you know, motivation which would lead to guilt.

On the other hand, you might be thinking if they have to ask for the definition of it, perhaps the prosecution hasn't met the burden of proving it. And so, it always is very difficult to look and to determine what anything means.

But we do know that one in particular, remember, Jane was one of them and they looked and they wanted to know about Jane and what her boyfriend said at the time and what the FBI notes said at the time, and what housekeepers said at the time, et cetera, and so I think and even the pilot with respect to whether, you know, she was on the flight, et cetera, so I think they're parsing through the specific testimony as can we jurors --


COATES: Well, they want corroboration, right? They want corroboration --

JACKSON: Absolutely.

COATES: -- as a prosecutor, --


COATES: -- if my jury, you know, to you and me, it's always the prosecuting jury, if my jury wants to have corroboration, I'm thinking to myself well, didn't I lead you to water and make you drink? Now I'm worried about the notion if you're asking questions that I maybe couldn't answer through my closing argument, to wrap things up, I got concerns.

But as you know, this was, you know, there is a lot of different aspects of this particular trial. I mean, there was one more note that says under count four the note says under count four, if the defendant aided in a transportation of Jane's return flight but not the flight to New Mexico, where if the intent -- is the intent to engage was for Jane to engage in sexual activity, can she be found guilty under the second amendment?

JACKSON: You know, it's very interesting very briefly because this could get complex. We asked jurors who are not lawyers, Laura, who have all of these jury instructions really to interpret them and they need some help. And so, I think what the jury is saying here, wait a second, if we believe that Ms. Maxwell perhaps brought this particular victim there but didn't have the intent then but she indeed on the way back brought the victim back could it have been that after the fact she would have known something occurred but since she took the victim back, could that mean she's guilty then?

And remember what the judge did. The judge punted and said look, look at the jury instructions and determine what it is. And so, we're asking them to look at these very complex jury instructions, six in total which mean, you know, could land her in jail for 70 years and say figure it out.

So, I don't blame them at all. They're going through the emotions. They're doing what they need to do. They've been at it for quite some time. They came back, right, after Christmas to get this done and so let's see what tomorrow brings. Or the next day or the next day thereafter. We don't know.

COATES: We don't know and they did ask to come back today and took the weekend off, right, for the Christmas holiday. So really, it's anybody's guess. But a jury asking so many questions raise of opportunities for reasonable doubt. And as a prosecutor, I never liked that. Joey Jackson, thank you for your time. I appreciate it as always.

JACKSON: Always. Thanks, Laura.

COATES: Now, follow the money. That's what the committee investigating January 6th is doing. We'll tell you what they're finding after this.



COATES (on camera): The January 6th select committee is following the money. New court records show they're demanding bank records in an effort to figure out how the rally is leading up to the insurrection were even funded. Their first target? Former President Trump's current spokesman Taylor Budowich is now suing the committee to try to stop them from obtaining his records.

Joining me now, former FBI deputy director, Andrew McCabe, he's now a CNN senior law enforcement analyst and author of "The Threat: How the FBI Protects America in the Age of Terror and Trump."

Andrew McCabe, I'm glad that you're here. I got to ask you, how big of a deal is it that they are now following the money trail?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Laura, I think it's a big deal but it's one that we all should have seen coming. As you know from your own experience on the federal investigative side, no investigation is completed thoroughly without some attention being played to the finances (AUDIO GAP) investigating.

So, I think it's an entirely predictable step that the committee would look closely at how the rally was funded uncovering those lines of funding tells you who was actually in charge, what people were making decisions as to which events to support or which communications strategies or recruitment strategies were being driven at which times. It really gets you right to the source of the people making decisions.

COATES: It's always been odd to me and I'm sure it is to you, as well, Andrew. The idea of this assumption, really this fallacy of this being a spontaneous event, right? It clearly was bankrolled; it clearly was a coordination. There was clearly and a lot of people getting together and had some former funding and organization. They're trying to get to the heart of that, right?

MCCABE: That's absolutely right. I think Taylor Budowich is a perfect example of that, right, because the committee already knows that Mr. Budowich funneled several hundred thousand dollars to different organizations (AUDIO GAP) essentially marketing the events, marketing the rally like getting the word out that people should come to the rally and be prepared to participate in these activities.

So that's not something that happens spontaneously. It's not -- you know, you don't come up with several hundred thousand dollars to market an event out of nowhere. That comes from predetermined decisions being made about how you're going to generate attention to this event and who you want to attract to come be part of it. So, it's a very fundamental piece of it.


COATES: It is. And chairman of the select committee Bennie Thompson is telling CNN's Jim Acosta that the so-called war room at the Willard Hotel on January 5th and 6th is part of the investigation, a key part. I mean, this means any possible calls by then President Trump to the command center.

I mean, what does that tell you about where the investigation is heading right now?

MCCABE: It's absolutely clear to me, Laura, that they are focusing on those crucial days, the final week or so leading up to the rally and looking at those nodes of the organization. Right? When you want to understand what an enterprise was up to before an event, you have to look at leadership decisions. You have to see where those key people were gathering, who they were talking to, how they were spending money and how decisions and orders were being made.

Clearly, the war room is one of those nodes of leadership, one of those nodes of organization and that's what the committee is focused in on.

COATES: You know, one year ago today then President Trump tweeted this. See you in Washington, D.C. on January 6th. Don't miss it. Information to follow. A few days before he tweeted, statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 election, big protests in D.C. on January 6th. Be there. Will be wild.

And then this video just released from the insurrection from the Justice Department shows what that turned into. Will those tweets not age very well and come back to haunt Trump?

MCCABE: You know, it certainly seems like they will. It's hard -- it's becoming harder and harder to see those tweets and to think of them as something that was completely random, unconnected to anything else, sprung from the mind of the former president without any sort of influence.

COATES: Right.

MCCABE: When you look at those tweets and understand his very close associates like Taylor Budowich and others were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars at the same time to send the same message out over social media, it all starts to look like a very well-coordinated conspiracy.

COATES: We will see. Thank you, Andrew McCabe.

MCCABE: Thanks, Laura.

COATES: And thank you for watching. Our coverage continues.