Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

January 6 Committee Looking To Subpoena Trump Allies; President Biden Address Rising Crime; Police Departments Need More Funding; Bronchos Executive Pushback Against Brian Flores; Millions Of Consumers Without Electricity. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired February 03, 2022 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST (on camera): And I resent the expectation that I am supposed to just immediately respond to stuff. And I resisted, but I'm an anomaly, and literally I feel like I have friends who have just given up on me because they're insulted. So, am I wrong?

UNKNOWN: I am totally completely with you.

COOPER: Yes.

UNKNOWN: The frustration that you just --

COOPER: Clearly, I'm very passionate about not responding to e-mails right away. You can catch it's streaming live at 6 p.m. Eastern on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at cnn.com/fullcircle. Watch it they're on the CNN happenings on demand. That's it for us. Let's turn things over to Don and DON LEMON TONIGHT.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Two things I like the sweater on the full-circle picture, and I am dealing with that very issue right now.

COOPER: Yes.

LEMON: Why don't you call me back. Why don't you text me? I'm not available. Yes, I'm busy. I have stuff to do.

COOPER: I find -- I resent when people expect immediate responses.

LEMON: Yes.

COOPER: Like, you know what, there's no --

LEMON: And sometimes, Anderson --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And I'm always apologizing, like, I'm sorry it took me 30 seconds to call you back or 30 minutes.

LEMON: Or a day.

COOPER: Yes. So, my standard is, sorry for the delay. I am busy. But sometimes you just, like I don't want to be available.

COOPER: Right.

LEMON: I will get -- I will get around to it. Is that so wrong?

COOPER: And also, you know, maybe we shouldn't have to apologize.

LEMON: Right on.

COOPER: It just take - it doesn't have to be right away.

LEMON: Right. And if you don't text me back and you often don't, I won't be offended. Have a good night. I'll see you later.

COOPER: All right.

LEMON: This is DON LEMON TONIGHT

And we do start with breaking news tonight. Of course, this is breaking news because we are in a crazy time. Congressman Bennie Thompson who chairs the committee investigating what happened on January 6th, saying that they had what he calls a significant discussion today about whether to subpoena lawmakers who refused to voluntarily cooperate.

The committee has requested voluntary cooperation from Kevin McCarthy, from Jim Jordan, from Scott Perry, in an effort to find out what they knew in the lead up to the January 6th insurrection, and their communications with the White House on that day.

And it's no surprise at all that these three people have refused to cooperate voluntarily. Now the committee is stuck trying to decide if it wants to force their hands and issue subpoenas. That, as we are learning more and more about the plot to overturn our free and fair election. It went so much further -- so much farther, I should say, than the insurrection on January 6. That was only the most visible part of it. The part we all watch in horror on live TV.

But we are learning more about what was going on behind the scenes, both before and after that shocking day. There is the plot at the DOJ, where the former Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark allegedly helped the then president come up with a plan for him to replace the acting attorney general, and have the DOJ intervene in Georgia to overturn it's vote and give the state to none other than the former guy.

A source telling CNN tonight that Clark who stonewalled the committee for months made good on his promise to plead the fifth more than 100 times. And then there is Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren she is a -- she is a member of the committee saying that they are considering granting him immunity to get him to answer questions.

Sure, seems like there's a whole lot of things that he doesn't want the committee to know, right?

It's a different story for Pence world, though. Sources telling CNN that two aides to Mike Pence answered most of the questions they were asked in an exclusive interview, extensive interview, excuse me, only declining to discuss direct conversations with the then- president. They saw a lot, and they know a lot about what happened on that day when Pence had to be hustled out of the capitol.

Well, he had to do that while rioters were chanting about him. Hanging Mike Pence. Remember, hang Mike Pence. The pieces of the plot are coming together and they are coming together slowly but they are surely coming together.

The committee has talked to 475 witnesses. They've got 60,000 documents, and they followed up on 375 tips to their hotline.

Meanwhile, the Washington Post is revealing a previously unknown last- ditch effort to stop Joe Biden from taking office. A memo circulating among -- among Trump allies in December of 2020 laying out a plan to seize top secret data from the NSA in an attempt to push the bogus claim that foreign powers had intervened to steal our election.

One more aspect to the big lie there. And then there is the fake elector's piece of the plot. The almost laughable effort to just replace genuine electors with Trump supporters. Can you imagine? That's true. It sounds, you made that. No, that's true.

The New York Times reporting that team Trump was already laying the groundwork just days before he lost to Joe Biden, and less than a month later their own electors were meeting like these in Arizona, probably doing it all on camera, it was right out in the open, the Republican Party of Arizona tweeted it out.

[22:04:59]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We, the undersigned being the duly elected and qualified electors for the president and vice president of the United States of America from the state of Arizona, do hereby certify the following. A, that we convened and organized in the city of Phoenix, County of Maricopa, State of Arizona at 12 noon on the 14th day of December 2020 to perform the duties enjoined upon us.

B, that being so assembled and duly organized proceeded to vote by ballot and balloted first for president and then for vice president by distinct ballots. And, c, that the following are two distinct lists, one of -- one, of all the votes for president, and the other of all the votes for vice president so cast. As of course said, for president, Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida, number of votes 11. For vice president, Michael R. Pence in the state of Indiana, number of votes 11.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): They are very proud of themselves. How much Kool- Aid do you have to drink to not only serve as a fake elector, not only sign your name to a fake election certificate, but to do it on camera. And then applaud. But at least one of those electors Arizona Representative Jake Hoffman seem to have an awful lot of trouble recently explaining just how he got involved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE HOFFMAN (R-AZ), STATE REPRESENTATIVE: So, in unprecedented times, unprecedented action has occurred. There is no case law, there is no precedent that exists as to whether or not an election that is currently being litigated in the courts, has due standing, which is why we felt it appropriate to provide Congress and the vice president with dueling opinions.

UNKNOWN: Did you have direction from anybody in doing this? Was it you, (Inaudible) yourself doing this, or did someone giving you advice on the matter in which you can do it?

HOFFMAN: So, I'm simply, I was one of the electors. Right?

UNKNOWN: Right.

HOFFMAN: I'm not in charge of the elector so you would --

(CROSSTALK)

UNKNOWN: How did you hear about it?

HOFFMAN: You would need to ask the party chair of that.

UNKNOWN: How did you hear about the plan? So, you were told to be somewhere?

HOFFMAN: You would need to ask the party chair that question.

UNKNOWN: But you're -- you're the person who received the call, you showed up, right? How did you know to show up that day?

HOFFMAN: So, as I said, you can go ahead and ask the party chair. The logistics of it.

UNKNOWN: Ask her how you got a phone call to go somewhere?

HOFFMAN: You are welcome to talk to them about the logistics.

UNKNOWN: Do you not know how you arrived at a place?

HOFFMAN: Thank you. I appreciate your question.

UNKNOWN: Do you really not know how you got a call?

HOFFMAN: Thank you so much. Have a great one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, I'm just one of the people on this show, if you want to know what's happening that you've got to ask. You're free to ask all of these people in the studio. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? It's you, buddy.

He wouldn't say how he heard about the plan. He wouldn't say how he knew to show up, he wouldn't say much of anything beyond ask the party chair. The pieces of the plot are coming together but there is so much more that we need to uncover. So many more questions that we need to answer. And we need answers too, right?

I have said it before, our democracy demands that we hold accountable the people who try to destroy it and are trying to destroy it quite frankly. That, as there is no denying that crime is surging in cities all across this country, some big cities, seeing more homicides in 2020 or 2021 than any other year on record.

Americans are demanding action to keep our streets safe. And today, President Joe Biden coming here to New York, New York City with some tough talk on gun violence. Calling for $300 million for local police departments. A national ghost gun enforcement initiative and gun laws like universal background checks. The president meeting with the new mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, the former NYPD captain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: You know, Mayor Adams, you and I agree, the answer is not to abandon our streets, that's not the answer. The answer is to come together, and placing communities, building trust and making us all safer. The answer is not to defund the police, it's to give you the tools, the training, the funding to be partners, to be protectors, and community needs you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): The mayor had a message on with Anderson just a little bit ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D-NY): Unfolding on our streets every day, places like Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, San Francisco, New York, we were witnessing this violence that was isolated to black and brown communities, and it was as though no one saw these crises.

We talked about assault rifles, we never talked about the handguns that was really carved in highways of death in the communities of color across America. This president has taken a different direction, he took his spotlight, and he stated that we are going to look at this gun violence and we are not going to allow to continue.

[22:10:03]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): While some in the president's party, are you listening, can learn from the mayor's approach. It's not about defunding the police. It never has been for Joe Biden even though you'll hear that from Republicans and right-wing media. Joe Biden never said he wanted to defund the police. Did you notice his change of tone on the crime bill? There was such a big issue for him in the campaign?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELICA POLITARHOS, FINANCIAL ADVISER: What's your view on the crime bill that you wrote in 1994, which showed prejudice against minorities, where do you stand on that?

BIDEN: Well, first of all, things had changed drastically. That crime bill, the one I did write, the black caucus voted for it every black mayor supported it, across the board.

UNKNOWN: Was it a mistake to support it?

BIDEN: Yes, it was. But here is my mistake came. The mistake came in terms of what the states did locally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Now he is using it to make the point that he is not soft on crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I've noticed in my experience when I wrote the first crime bill, I noticed that, you know, I don't hear many communities, no matter what their color, their background saying I don't want more protection in my community. I don't know. I haven't found one of those yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): And that's where we are tonight, the president taking on gun violence in the pieces of the plot to overthrow our election coming together.

Good evening, everyone. This is where we are. I want to talk about the rise in crime, though, and gun violence with the former New York City Police Commissioner, Bill Bratton. He tells us his thoughts, and you want to hear them right after this.

[22:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): President Biden in New York City today to take on the rise in violent crime and gun deaths. The president meeting with law enforcement and the mayor of New York City, the new mayor, Eric Adams, laying out how he wants to fund the police, and take on illegal guns.

So, joining me now, Bill Bratton, former New York city police commissioner and the author of, "The Profession: A Memoir of Community, Race and the Arc of Policing in America."

Commissioner, thank you. I always enjoy having you on, and I love your -- your candor about what we need to do here. So, good evening. Welcome.

The president was clear today in his speech that the answer is not to defund the police. Many democrats, including President Biden, have never supported that. But with crime on the rise, and police under fire, we are glad to hear that message. I'm sure you are as well, and more people need to listen to that message. Do you disagree with that?

BILL BRATTON, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: I'm very pleased to hear the president coming to center once again. Eric Adams, the mayor, campaigned on the center and won the election in New York, because he was in the center.

The center being a place where there is a commitment to do something about crime to try to prevent it. To have a response to it before he hands in the air, or try to reformat it in a way that that you actually create more fire, which is unfortunately what's happening to too many American cities.

I applaud both the president, and certainly the mayor for their efforts to try to regain control of issue once again.

LEMON: You know, Commissioner, my friend and former D.C. Metropolitan Police Officer, Michael Fanone, says that this is about -- this is the position police are in across the country. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FANONE, FORMER D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: It's like we are in a culture war. We're being utilized. We're pander to by different political entities, and really pitted against members of the community. At least, that's, you know, the appearance.

But in reality, I think police officers are getting fed up. We don't want to be pander to. We just want the resources that we need to keep communities safe, and citizens are tired of it as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Listen, he talks to me about these issues all the time. And especially about the frustration in the communities, and actually when I'm with him, you can hear the frustration out there in the community. That is a pretty terrible position for officers to be in.

BRATTON: Well, you can also hear from the communities growing fear. I've been in the police business for 50 years, I've never seen a time in the profession has been so demoralized, so defamed, so diminished. Diminished in the sense of cops leaving the profession in droves because they no longer feel respected. They no longer feel supported.

And the public is beginning to become very fearful. Recent polling shows that behind the inflation that crime once again has moved up to number two. So, we are in a very interesting place. The good news is, that fear is creating a lot more public attention to what has gone wrong in the last couple of years. This is true, or is it just occurred in the last two to three years.

Two thousand eighteen was the safest year in the city history in New York City. And one of the safest in the country. But politicians are trying to change the system what was working, created the chaos that we are now in. And you have phenomenal rates of crime in so many American cities.

LEMON: Can I ask you something, Commissioner, before we get too far field here? Because since we are -- listen, there's a place for activists, and so, you know, and there is nuance. So don't get me wrong about what I'm saying.

But do you think that the politicians are listening to activists more than they're listening to the people who are actually in the community about what they -- what they want from police, and what's important to them as far as crime and safety in their communities?

BRATTON: I think over the several years activists, criminal justice reformers and even elected officials who were elected by the voters have taken us to a bad place that police would allow us to yield expression to speak that we'll get (Inaudible). The good news is, what they've been advocating for, or what they have been preaching just turned out to be pretty disastrous. As the body counts increase, the shooting victims increased as the fear increases.

[22:19:59]

So that's was what the president say was attempting to address. He has recognized that it has now reached the national level. As Eric Adams understood when he was campaigning for mayor in New York City, it was a palpable fear growing. And they both have plans to try and alleviate some of that plan -- some of that fear.

The good news is the NYPD is very good at this despite it's demoralized in the state at the moment. Last year they took 6,000 guns off the streets in New York. So, they can get re-energized if they can get re-supplied, if you will, if they can get re-funded. They can regain the energy that made New York to safest city in America and they can show the rest of America how to do it. Precision policing is the way to go.

LEMON: We talked about that. We've spoken about precision policing a lot. Let me ask you about, I'm sure money helps. The president is calling on Congress to give an additional $300 million to state and local law enforcement agencies. So, if we're going to fund the police, what is the best use of that money, and should more of it be spent on social services? The better question is, what should it be spent on when it comes to policing?

BRATTON: Funding going directly to policing, in many respects will go directly to the training. So much what they get criticized for, so much what they get jammed up doing that's caught oftentimes in cameras, it's because of lack of training. Lack of de-escalation training. Lack of training on drug identification that different types of drugs have different effects on people. We need to understand what a drug a person is on because you are going

to treat that person in a different way. So, I would advocate, and have been advocating, that the refunding go very specifically to training. Also, to encourage officers to come back into the profession like many of the profession in the first place.

Separate funding for all of these social programs, many of which we know work. And can be designed to work very closely with the police. And we're experimenting with that around the country. I began in fact in 2006, I think in Los Angeles, where we had smart cards and police officers and I had a trained clinician to go to the mental illness that would come in. Because they were trained to specifically to de- escalate a situation, understanding was this person schizophrenic.

LEMON: Yes.

BRATTON: Is he bipolar, or what was his potential mental illness. Because again, you have to know what the person is suffering from before you can treat them. The good news is, we are in a place where we've learned so much, that we can now apply that learning.

LEMON: Commissioner, I want to ask you something, quickly if you can because, as you know, you've done this many times, I've got to move on, I've got other stuff to cover.

But I want to ask you, what is the solution when you see people, when the message is being sent from officials that, you know, you can jump that turn style, it may not be prosecuted, probably won't. You see people walking out of stores just, you know, not -- they don't even care if the security guard is there, or just stealing things, at will. What is the solution for that? Two things, is it the right message to send, and what is the solution to that, how do you fix it?

BRATTON: Well, I hope you can see smoke coming out of my ears because we have the solution in the 90s. You deal with serious crime by also dealing with quality-of-life crime. What you're talking about a so- called those victimless crimes. The victim however is in fact, society. The victim is the neighborhood that loses the local (Inaudible).

The victim is neighborhoods that are going to decline because of fear of what's going on that seems to be out of control. Now I go out of my mind with how much we have let behavior slide in the sense norms of behavior. That's what we corrected in the 90s. That's how we got the cities so safe. When we've learned how to do it in a better way that we basically not abusing people while we're doing it.

To get back on track here in New York City, to get back on track in the country, we can focus more seriously on serious crime and more effectively. But if we don't also focus on what you're talking about, the leniency that we give to these people who are breaking these laws. We'll never going to feel safe.

And so, this is something I wrote about in my book. It's something I've lived for 50 years, something over 50 years you (Inaudible).

LEMON: Yes.

BRATTON: You have to focus on crime and to solve it at the same time.

LEMON: And you said the way you do it without, you have to be cognizant of people's rights when you're doing it as you talk about stop and frisk and all of that and why it was stopped. So then --

(CROSSTALK)

BRATTON: So, Don --

LEMON: There are ways to do it.

BRATTON: It's policing compassionately, constitutionally, and consistently. The three c's. If you know how to do that, if you know how to train for that, basically, the goal is to train. So that they do that, and then we regain the trust of the community, and then we come together to take back our streets, and our subways, and our neighborhoods, and our states.

LEMON: Thank you, Commissioner. I appreciate it. My best to your lovely wife, of course, as always.

BRATTON: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you so much. Thank you.

BRATTON: All the best.

[22:25:01]

LEMON: Will they subpoena the lawmakers refusing to talk, that's what the committee investigating January 6th is discussing right now. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): The January 6 committee chair, Bennie Johnson, telling CNN tonight that the committee had, a quote, "significant discussion on whether to subpoena lawmakers refusing to cooperate." The committee has asked for voluntary cooperation from Kevin McCarthy, Jim Jordan, and Scott Perry. All of them have refused.

[22:30:07]

Tonight, the committee is still not deciding on whether or not to subpoena them.

Joining me now to discuss, CNN chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, and CNN's legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams.

Good evening to both of you. Let's see. Elliot, let's start with you. I want to start with this exclusive interview. The Atlanta Journal- Constitution, it has the Fulton County district attorney who impaneled a special grand jury to investigate Trump's pressure campaign on the Georgia election officials. She spoke out about the blow back she has gotten for doing her job. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: You know, I get called an n very regularly. It's really silly to me that they believe that by hurling those kinds of insults that is going to impact the way that we do our investigation. It's not going to impact me to do something faster. It's not going to impact me and treating the former president, or anyone else unfairly. And it is not going to make me stop what I have a lawful duty to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Well, this comes after the former president called the prosecutors investigating him racist. Is he stoking this kind of thing?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, look, sticks and stones, Don, they can call her the n-word, but at the end of the day she's got a special grand jury, and the most important special grand jury is that, number one, they are not time found. It can extend far into the future. Number two, she can seize documents, she can seize testimony, and they are not going to be considering a whole bunch of criminal cases at once, which is what normal grand juries would do.

This is just focus on that issue. And so, you know, regardless of the blow back, and the fact that this has become so politicized, at the end of the day, she has a very powerful investigative tool, and it looks like she's going to use it.

LEMON: Did you hear her? She's like, this is like, this is not stopping me, they can do whatever -- say whatever they want, it's not going to stop me.

Hi, Dana. You know, we heard the former president call for his supporters to stage huge protest to prosecutors move forward with charging him in any of the probes he is facing. These officials face not just name-calling, put the potential of physical violence here. Now, that is scary.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is. And it's not like we haven't seen the ramifications of those calls for potential, you know, in this a last event that he had, he called for protests. But we know the lengths to which the supporters of Donald Trump will got to heed his call, to heed his desire to do whatever it is that he's asking. And in this case, you are right.

The fact that he called African American prosecutors racist, was a -- it wasn't a dog whistle, it was a megaphone that he had. And he used it on the highest level. And everybody needs to really focus on that and focus on what is happening. Yes, she is standing firm, and of course she has to. That's her job, she's going to do that.

But we have seen this in action, and we have seen the result of this kind of language, and rhetoric, from the former president when he was still president. And it's the fact that there is an investigation going down of that, and it's being whitewashed, while he's doing it again for a potential another situation that he is going to be in, you just can't make it up.

LEMON: No. No. And let's talk about the subpoenas, too. Chairman Bennie Thompson telling CNN that they are weighing carefully about issuing subpoenas to members of the Congress would be a significant escalation by the committee, don't you think? How would that go down on Capitol Hill, Dana?

BASH: Not well, but it's already so partisan. It is so political. And it shouldn't be because the attack happened to and on all of them. They were -- they were victims, their staff were victims of the attack on that day. But what could happen is that is they make the decision to send out the subpoenas, which is you alluded to this, Don, a very, very big decision to subpoena your colleague.

The likelihood that they would actually come, comply and do anything other than plead the fifth, probably slim to none. I mean, Elliott is the attorney here, but just on the politics of it, there is no reason for them to take any political chance since they've already laid down their marker, saying that they're not going to cooperate.

LEMON: Let's ask attorney Elliot or is it, what did people call you, attorney Elliot or Attorney Williams?

WILLIAMS: Sir. Sir is fine, Don. Thank you. Or your honor.

[22:35:02]

LEMON: So, Elliot.

BASH: Esquire.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Exactly. Barrister.

LEMON: Listen, though, seriously, though, if these congressmen fight the subpoena, --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

LEMON: -- it could end up in the courts and drag on --

WILLIAMS: Right.

LEMON: -- past the midterms if they were to try this.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

LEMON: Should they have done it by now?

WILLIAMS: Well, look, Dana is exactly right. It comes down to one question, Don. How much of a circus do you want to turn the January 6th committee into? And if you are willing to bring a circus, then yes, issue the subpoenas. If not, like Dana says, what you would be inviting is a much larger political fight. What they have right now is a pretty well-structured legal proceeding.

Yes, it operates in a political body, Congress, but at the end of -- it would become political Armageddon. And every time a congressional investigation plays out, that's a calculus that congressional investigators have to consider, which is how much of a mess do we want to bring on to our hands. And it's just, it may not be worth it because you are getting a lot of information from a lot of sources including congressional staff, not just the members themselves.

LEMON: A barrister, a former DOJ official and Trump loyalist, Jeffrey Clark appears before the committee yesterday and pleaded --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

LEMON: -- the fifth before -- the fifth more than 100 times in questioning. I mean, just tonight Zoe Lofgren telling our Erin Burnett that they are considering granting Clark immunity there.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

LEMON: How does that work, and what would it mean?

WILLIAMS: So, a couple things. One, the mere fact that you have a former Justice Department official seeking immunity because of the fact that he thinks he might have committed a crime. That is why witnesses seek immunity. They are immunized against the statements that they used being used against them in a future proceeding.

So, what Congress would do is just work out with the Justice Department that he won't be prosecuted based on his statements. The problem here is that he has privileged claims because he is an attorney would have been providing legal advice to the Justice Department or the president. It's hard to know what -- what giving him immunity would actually do because he is still has some safe ground that, you know, he could claim privilege over.

Really, what the immunity would do which is it will be symbolic, almost allowing him to save face for it. So, I don't think he'll gain a ton from it in this instance. In some cases, you get a lot from immunizing a witness because you get a lower-level person to go up and testify against somebody else. Here, because you're really not going to get much testimony out of him anyway, it just may not be worth it.

LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it. Good to see you.

WILLIAMS: Thanks, Don.

BASH: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: So, the owners of the Miami Dolphins denying that he offered a top NFL coach big bucks to lose games. John Elway is denying allegations of a sham interview. The latest on the lawsuit rocking the NFL after this.

[22:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So top NFL brass pushing back against Brian Flores, alleging racial discrimination across the league. Broncos' executive, John Elway, saying Flores claims are false and defamatory. Flores alleges that Elway and other Broncos executives put him through a sham interview process in 2019. Showing up an hour late and looking like they had been drinking heavily the night before.

Elway says, for Brian to make an assumption about my appearance and state of mind early that morning was subjective, hurtful, and just wrong. If I appeared to disheveled, as he claimed, it was because we had flown in during the middle of the night, immediately followed another interview in Denver -- following another interview in Denver, and we're going on a few hours of sleep to meet the only window provided to us.

The New York Giants also denying Flores claims of a bogus interview, calling them disturbing and false. But Flores is also getting some major support. Two Dolphins assistant coaches, saying he is a true leader.

So, joining me now to break all of this down, someone I love having on is Mr. Bomani Jones. The host of ESPN's The Right Time with, of course, Bomani Jones.

Bomani, thank you. This story, this is a huge story. This is a huge story. Elway is pitting himself -- putting himself -- pitting himself directly against Flores. I spoke of Flores last night, his claim sound credible. It is obviously NFL has a race problem. There is just one black head coach. Are you surprised about how forceful these denials are?

BOMANI JONES, HOST, ESPN: I am actually. I did think that Flores put himself in a tricky situation when you start to presume about why it was that the Broncos press might have looked the way that they did. And then they come back and say, hey, we just got off a plane, I don't know what to say to that.

And I don't think Brian Flores will know what to say to that. But the larger issue of course is the part that prevails, and the part that stands out. The Giants, in their forceful denial, that one is surprising. Because John Elway at least seems to be in a position where I am more inclined to believe what he said.

What Flores had to say about the Giants, that all seem to add up. They seem to lay out a pretty strong timeline that made the case, you know, that he was trying to make. And the Giants came all the way out on the other side, there was no denial. The NFL has made the decision considering that their statement came out immediately, saying that this was all baseless, before they even had a chance to look at it.

They're not just going to try to let this lay low, they decided they are going to fight back hard.

LEMON: Yes. You have gotten a little attention, a lot of attention, I should say, for saying that the problem with the NFL is white people. Although you did clarify, you say not every single way person. Explain why you thought it was so important to say that?

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: Now the question that I was asked is what has to change for these things to change? Now after that, I probably phrase that in a way that I should not. But the question very clearly was, what has to change? And what I was saying is what has to change is white people. And that is the truth in this, whether you're talking about the white people that have the power to make the decisions, or the white people that are in a position to observe this, and also themselves have power to be influential in ways that people of color simply cannot.

But the thing that it isn't changing is the behavior pattern to the people who are in charge, and who the people are who happen to be in charge. So that's what has to change.

[22:45:03]

Well, I guess it's frustrating for somebody like me is when these stories come up, my phone blows up and everybody wants to talk to me about it. And people ask me what the solution is, as though I somehow created the problem, or as if I knew the solution, I would not have long ago implemented it.

Like if I was sitting here with a cure for cancer, somebody is what do we do, and it's like, you know, I was just waiting on somebody to ask me. No, I would have gone -- had done something about it. But when it comes up, nobody asks why people what needs to change, even though they are in much greater proximity to the potential to actually make something change.

LEMON: I, well, I had to ask you about it, but I don't see where it's controversial. I understand exactly what you're saying. So, you know, that was no apology there, you are just clarifying, right?

JONES: Yes. No, no. I mean, that idea though that like it does sound to B.S. not everybody has to be acknowledged and of course in this discussion. Like, --

LEMON: Got you.

JONES: -- the point that I was making, I agree with you, I think it's clear. I don't necessarily think it's controversial, but what it comes down to, and what I can very clearly say for anybody that did not understand it is, asking the people who are taking the brunt of a racist situation.

What needs to change is completely missing the point, because if our opinions on that matter that much we have been made something change. Right?

LEMON: Right.

JONES: People are just going to ask because they'll (Inaudible) somebody about it. The people who can make something change. Nobody asks them how they're going to do it. LEMON: Right, and the folks in the league who the problem should be

the ones asking how are they going to fix this. And yes, I agree with you.

So, two Dolphins assistant coaches are publicly supporting Flores and many former NFL players are also coming to his defense. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRELL OWENS, FORMER NFL PLAYER: I think he did an admirable job, very noble to basically risk, obviously his future as a coach in the National Football League by standing up for something that he believes in.

RYAN CLARK, FORMER NFL PLAYER: We are commodities, commodities that can be replaced. Commodities that can be sold. Commodities that can be traded and so when Brian Flores speaks of it in that nature, it's absolutely true.

DOMONIQUE FOXWORTH, FORMER NFL PLAYER: The idea that you can take Brian Flores who is a black coach, and has a hard time getting the job, and ask him to tarnish his reputation, and to blow which is probably going to be his only shot because black folks having a hard time getting that second opportunity, so that you can get a graphic is an ethical and despicable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, he's putting a lot on the line here, and there are a lot of calls for other people to stand up for him, what do you think? Will that happen?

JONES: I mean, the thing is, if we can acknowledge the courage it takes for Flores to do this, now whether or not you think that Brian Flores is correct, he's completely separate from the fact that he's put this all over the line. At the very least you can question whether he believes -- like this isn't a dude that was on the verge of being out of the league.

He's right around 40 years old, there was still a reason to think that he could get a job along those lines. And he decided to put this on the line. I don't know how many people is reasonable to expect to be willing to make the same sort of risk that Brian Flores is. So, I think we will probably hear from some people. I'm wondering who this law firm has probably heard from was not willing to put their name on the record necessarily.

But my buddy Howard Ryan makes this point, and he's absolutely correct. Why do we always have to sacrifice our careers or our livelihoods in order to make something change? Is that we're asking of all the people in this to roll the dice on what you work for, to get the bit that you have, in order to make something change?

Why do you have to put everything on the line in the name of something that really, like we're not even asking for them to talk about something that is a disproportionate share. Like Rooney Rule is just about job interviews, like to get somebody do something fair, we are asking people to get everything they have on the line. And that's just like ridiculous on its face.

LEMON: I'm glad you said that that the Rooney Rule is just about job interviews, it's not about how many people you have to have there. Because there are people saying, well, it was these quotas, or whatever. I've heard that part. And that's not what it is. Bomani, it's always a pleasure. I always learn something from you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

JONES: Don, thank you.

LEMON: Thank you. Hundreds of thousands without power tonight, thanks to a winter storm pushing across much of the U.S. We are live in one of the cities being hit the hardest, right after this.

[22:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): Breaking news. A gigantic winter storm stretching from the Gulf of Mexico to the Canadian border more than 100 million Americans, nearly one third of the country under winter storm warnings or advisories. The storm packing snow, sleet and ice. Hundreds of thousands are without power tonight.

CNN's meteorologist Derek Van Dam is in Minneapolis for us. You've got all the great assignments, and yes, that was sarcasm. Derek, good evening to you. You are there and one of the cities that are supposed to be hit the hardest. How do things go right now?

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, you're right, not to correct you, but I'm in Indianapolis. Just so we are clear. Yes, not the warmest of assignments, that's for sure. But the snow is slowly starting to come to an end. But I'll tell you what, Don. It has been a brutal 24 hours.

We drove in from South Bend yesterday, I drive it normally takes two hours to get here into Indianapolis, it took us four hours. And as we got into Indianapolis, we could see glass on the ground, because it was raining here. Well, think about that. Now, all the snow has accumulated, just since we've been here yesterday at this time.

So, 24 hours we've accumulated six to eight inches. And all that rain that fell last night, the temperature dropped, we have a sheet of ice underneath all of the snow.

[22:55:00]

That is what's making this so treacherous for the Hoosier state. Of course, the ice storm that is crippling parts of the Ohio Valley, the Mississippi Valley, I'm looking at Louisville into Memphis, as well as Dallas, all the way to Texas, the storm is huge. It's dynamic. It stretches all the way from Maine to the Gulf Coast.

I mean, this thing has tornado watches, flood watches. We've also had winter storm watches and ice storm warnings. So, covering about a third of the U.S. population, 25 states, this thing just really is quite significant. And really packing quite a punch. Don?

LEMON: I see one car out there. I think I said you are Indiana. Sorry.

DAM: Yes,

LEMON: Thank you. You can correct me. I don't mind. Really quick, I just kept have a couple of seconds left here. What about power outages concerns?

DAM: Yes, Ohio, the numbers are going up. In Tennessee, we had about 140,000 customers without power.

LEMON: Wow.

DAM: It is improving in Texas, that is good news for those people there that were fearful of the more power outages from a winter storm.

LEMON: Wow! Derek Van Dam, this is not good. Thank you very much, sir. You've heard that before, I'm sure, Derek. All right. Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

DAM: I have.

LEMON: A sad day for the party of Lincoln, that's what's Liz Cheney saying about her own party. We're going to tell you why, right after this.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)