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Don Lemon Tonight

Biden Issues Stern Warning To Putin On Ukraine; The Atlantic: "Trump Is Obsessed With Being A Loser"; Coronavirus Pandemic: When Do We Roll Back The Measures We've Been Relying On To Stay Safe?; Former President Trump's New Claims Of Racism; Amir Locke's Parents Demanding An End To No-Knock Warrants; Calls Grow To Ban No-Knock Warrants. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired February 07, 2022 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): Tonight, President Biden warning Russian President Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think he has to realize that it would be a gigantic mistake for him to move on Ukraine. The impact on Europe and the rest of the world would be devastating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Racial gaslighting. How the former president and some of his conservative allies are trying to recast racism, claiming white men are the victims.

Also, ahead this hour, the parents of Amir Locke demanding an end to no-knock warrants after their son was shot to death by Minneapolis police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRE LOCKE, FATHER OF AMIR LOCKE: The no-knock warrant is what caused Amir's death.

KAREN WELLS, MOTHER OF AMIR LOCKE: He wasn't killed, he wasn't murdered, he was executed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): But I want to begin this hour with CNN White House correspondent John Harwood and Kim Wehle, a professor at the University of Baltimore School of Law. She is a former federal prosecutor. Good evening to both of you. Thank you so much for joining us.

John, I'm going to start with you. We have President Biden saying flat out if Russia invades Nord Stream 2, which is a gas pipeline from Russia to Germany, that it is dead. But the German chancellor wouldn't go there. This is what he told Jake Tapper. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: You can be absolutely sure that Germany will be, together with all these allies and especially the United States, that we take the same steps. There will be no differences in that situation. What we do today is giving this very strong answer to Russia, saying if you invade the Ukraine, this will have a very high price for you, this will have high impacts on your economy and the chances for your development. And we are ready to take steps that will have costs for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, what is at stake here? And why won't Germany explicitly say the pipeline is done?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it is domestic political reasons, Don, for why Chancellor Scholz will not say Nord Stream will be done if Russia invades. There is a big constituency for the pipeline in Germany.

Germany uses a lot of Russian gas. Of course, if there is an invasion and disruption, not from the pipeline because gas isn't flowing to the pipeline yet, but a disruption in gas supplies, energy prices are going to go up in Germany and in other places, too. And I think Scholz is wanting to avoid blame for making that happen.

But the larger message, I think, is that he stood there at the White House with President Biden, said that they are going to be united. Biden, in effect, took responsibility, saying, I'll shut it down if Russia invades.

And I think that is probably the larger message that was sent to Vladimir Putin, of course, while Emmanuel Macron, the French president, was in Moscow with Putin trying to work out the diplomatic offramp. We will see what kind of progress he was able to make as we go through some subsequent meetings.

[23:05:00]

LEMON (on camera): And Kim, I want to turn to the investigation into Trump's efforts to overturn the election. CNN's Sara Murray sat down with Atlanta-area district attorney, Fani Williams, and asked about her investigation. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: This is a criminal investigation. We're not here playing a game. I plan to use the power of the law. We are all citizens. Mr. Trump, just as every other American citizen, is entitled to dignity. He is entitled to be treated fairly. He will be treated fairly in this jurisdiction. But I plan to do my job and my job is to make sure that we get the evidence that gives us the truth. I'm not concerned at all about games to delay this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): It's Fani Willis. Sorry about that. How worried should the former president be about this investigation?

KIM WEHLE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, PROFESSOR OF LAW AT UNIVERSITY OF BALTIMORE SCHOOL OF LAW: Well, it's a little strange, Don, that it is going on this long and that suggested it may be is beyond just the quick pro -- the phone call, that is, to say please find enough votes to swing Georgia to me, that -- the famous phone call now with Brad Raffensperger.

I do think, you know, it is unprecedented to indict a president, but we are just sort beyond that in this moment. I mean, there are just so many mounting problems circling around Donald Trump and so much wrongdoing. I mean, tearing up documents, taking them now down to Mar-a-Lago. It is just -- it is head-spinning, the legal boundaries that were crossed by this president.

So, you know, if some accountability doesn't happen, then our justice system is really flawed, and the presidency and the separation of power is really flawed.

And I know that sounds like a very political statement, but it is very interesting to think about, Don, what is happening in America. After listening to your coverage of the 100,000 troops at the Ukrainian border, that is taking over a country from the outside. And we understand that.

With America, with Donald Trump and those around him, cronies in Congress and others, what is happening is the take down of this country from the inside out. And it is a little more insidious. It is harder to see.

So, I am glad to hear prosecutor say she is going to go with the evidence -- where the evidence takes her and not going to be bothered by the fact that this man used to sit in the Oval Office. I hope -- I hope she is right about that. I hope she adheres to that pledge.

LEMON: John, talk to me about the national archives having to go down to Mar-a-Lago to take back boxes of Trump White House documents. I mean, this is strange. There is that. And he routinely ripped up documents.

HARWOOD: Look, Donald Trump was a lawless president. You know, Kim was just talking about the threat from the inside to the United States. Donald Trump was the leader of that threat. And he did not care about the Presidential Records Act. He routinely destroyed documents. Aides, to their credit, retrieved some of those torn pieces and taped them together and sent them to the archives. But there were other things that should have gone to the archives, that President Trump kept.

Look, he doesn't care about propriety. He doesn't care about the law. He only cares about his personal, self-interest. And I think that raises the stakes for what Kim was talking about. And all the body language that I get from watching Fani Willis is that if she thinks she can make a case, she will bring a case against former President Trump. The question is, can she amass enough to make it credible?

LEMON (on camera): Kim, Mike Pence's former chief of staff, Marc Short, was on "Meet the Press," and he says that it would be an unprecedented step to subpoena Pence. Watch this. We'll talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: I think it is very different (ph) to subpoena former vice president to talk about private conversations he had with the president of the United States. It has never happened before.

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: Uh-hmm.

SHORT: And I think we have some significant concerns about the committee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, the question is, bottom line, should the committee compel the former vice president to testify, Kim?

WEHLE: I think so if he is not going to work out a deal. I mean, historically, Don, the way this worked was people in government complied with these requests and kind of worked something out. I mean, remember, Bill Clinton actually testified about the famous dress, Monica Lewinsky, the stain on the dress, to Kenneth Starr. That was a sitting president. How far we have come from there where routine -- of course, this is congressional. It is not a grand jury investigation.

But again, to Don's point and what I was mentioning before, I mean, people need to understand, we really are in the twilight of democracy.

LEMON: Yeah.

WEHLE: We could lose it. It has happened. It has happened in our lifetimes. There is no reason whatsoever that we are entitled to the freedoms that come along with democracy, the bill of rights. And, you know, Presidential Records Act is not -- it is not -- there aren't any accountability mechanisms for that.

[23:10:00]

That is there's no way to sue under that. There is a criminal statute that says if even Donald Trump willfully did destroy it or took records, that could be a crime. But, as I said earlier, I mean, we just -- it is hard to even keep track of these things.

But we can't be numb to it, Don. People need to get out in November and vote for people who are going to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law. If you're not going to do that for yourself, do it for your kids or your grandchildren, because we've all enjoyed the freedoms that come along with democracy. But once you have one party rule by someone who doesn't respect the rule of law, your rights are on the chopping block next, even if in this moment this is your person.

So, this is -- this is very, very important, that this came out. It is important to keep in mind that the American taxpayers paid for professional archivists to take these pieces back together. I mean, you can't make this up, Don. It is just -- it is just crazy.

LEMON: Every time you think if someone wrote this --

HARWOOD: Don, can I have one postscript there?

LEMON: Yeah, I would say if someone wrote this, we would say this is crazy. This will never happen. Go ahead, John.

HARWOOD: One quick -- one quick postscript. That is that Fani Willis is one of the prosecutors that Donald Trump attacked the other day as racist. And the reason that he called her racist is because she is Black. He was trying to use, and I know you're going to be talking about that later in the program, trying to emphasize racial animus as a reason, as an explanation for why she is going after him.

It is false. We all heard the phone call. He was trying to -- he was trying to prompt Raffensperger to get votes that he didn't have. But that is typical of Donald Trump, using whatever tool he can find on the playground to whack whatever object of his derision he is looking at.

LEMON: Thank you, John. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Kim, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Now, I want to bring in Peter Wehner. Peter Wehner is a former adviser to George W. Bush, who is a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. Peter, good to see you. Thank you so much for joining.

You have a new piece in "The Atlantic." It says Trump is obsessed with being a loser. His electoral defeat has pulled him into a deep, dark place. He wants to pull the rest of us into it as well.

Very well stated, by the way. When RNC is describing January 6 as a legitimate political discourse, is this proof that Trump's efforts pull us into that dark place? His effort is working?

PETER WEHNER, FORMER ADVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH: Yeah, absolutely. The Republican Party, they have been pulled into it, getting pulled into deeper and darker places.

But that censure of Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger was telling. It is almost undisguised in terms of the celebration of the insurrection on January 6th. Even a year ago, there was an effort to try and distance the Republican Party from it, or to say that Antifa, remember, was part of it. That has now changed.

And now, you are taking these people who -- mob, violent mob and celebrating them as martyrs. The reason that is happening is because Donald trump did it first and has done it repeatedly. You know, the Republican Party, if Trump says jump, they say how high.

So, that censure resolution with the RNC was a very telling moment and a very discouraging moment. I think it is an example of the kind of moral nihilism. It has grippe a lot of the Republican Party.

LEMON: And it also gripped a lot of the country as well because Trump is making people think that this behavior is okay. People actually think that -- the lie and to get revenge or whatever.

And you write about this in your piece. You said he is obsessed and enraged, consumed by vengeance, and moving us closer to political violence. His behavior needs attention not because of the past but because of the future. A second Trump term would make the first one look like a walk in the park.

So, with the GOP fully behind him, is the party legitimizing political violence? Do you believe that?

WEHNER: Well, I mean, we saw political violence on January 6th, and it seems as if some parts of it, certainly I would say that the censure resolution is essentially is legitimizing it. Again, if you're taking people who are insurrectionists and turning them into martyrs, I think that's essentially what you are doing. That's not the entire GOP. Fortunately, the political violence is not widespread at this point.

But my sense is that, you know, this is very dry grass and people are using flame throwers. You know, the membrane between civilization, barbarism, between peace and lawlessness, is a lot thinner than people think.

[23:14:58]

When you have somebody with Donald Trump's power, it is almost like a cult of personality for MAGA world. Saying what he is saying, doing what he is doing, we are edging close to it.

I understand, by the way, the impulse to try and get Trump into the rearview mirror. I have that same impulse. I think, probably, a lot of us do. You're sort of worn down by the Trump presidency.

But we can't do I it because this person is not just a former president. He is the dominant figure in the Republican Party. He is setting the tone and the style and the approach of the Republican Party. He may be the nominee in 2024.

We may want -- wish he would go away, but he isn't going to exit the stage. And if that's the case, rest of us, I think, have a civic duty, a civic obligation to call this out, to name it, to stand up against it, and to fight for a country that we love and is worth preserving.

LEMON: Yeah. Peter, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Read his piece in "The Atlantic." Thank you so much, Peter.

WEHNER: Thanks a lot, Don. LEMON (on camera): So, is it time to let kids go to school without masks? How will we know when to roll back the measures that we've been relying on to stay safe?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER U.S. COMMISSIONER OF FDA: I think what governors are sensing is that we need to -- we need to agree upon a set of metrics. When are we going to start to roll back these mitigation steps and give people a light at end of the tunnel? What is that point when this stuff gets turn off?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[23:20:00]

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LEMON: So, tonight, at least four states -- New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware and Oregon planning to lift mask mandates in schools over the next few weeks as the number of COVID cases begins to fall.

So, let us discuss now with Dr. Dimitri Christakis, director of the Center for Child Health, Behavior and Development at Seattle Children's Hospital. He is also the editor-in-chief of JAMA Pediatrics. Good to see you, doc. Thanks for joining us.

DIMITRI CHRISTAKIS, DIRECTOR FOR CENTER FOR CHILD HEALTH, BEHAVIOR AND DEVELOPMENT AT SEATTLE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF OF JAMA PEDIATRICS: Good to be back, Don.

LEMON: The surge of this Omicron variant fading and multiple governors are peeling back the school mask mandates. You have been clear, very clear about how this pandemic has impacted kids. Is it right time to let them go to school without masks?

CHRISTAKIS: Well, you know, I think -- the truth is, Don, it needs to be guided by facts on the ground. The vaccination rate, the positivity rate, the transmission rate. And it needs to be guided by science and not politics.

These facts might change, right? That's what worries me the most. People already feel whipsawed by the changing recommendations. But unfortunately, the reality posed by COVID is just that. we are seeing the decline of Omicron, as you said right now, but Pi and Rho might be looming in the future.

The truth is I think we need to think of wearing masks like wearing raincoats for the foreseeable future. Check your local weather and dress accordingly. A check with a reputable meteorologist, not just Facebook friend, to see what the forecast is.

LEMON: Yeah. Well, a reputable -- a reputable health --

CHRISTAKIS: Go ahead.

LEMON: -- person, right? A reputable doctor or science expert and not your local --

CHRISTAKIS: Absolutely. I was making the analogy to the weather.

LEMON: I got it. I just want to make sure people get it. Sometimes, they don't, doc. Go on. I'm sorry.

CHRISTAKIS: Yes. You're right. I want to be absolutely clear, check with your local public health officials about the risk of transmission in your particular area. That's the thing.

The states -- by the way, states don't tell the whole story. That's other thing that is wrong about these sorts of statewide decisions because within the state, within the state of Washington, there's a big difference between Seattle and Eastern Washington in terms of the risk of getting COVID.

LEMON: So, it should be -- what is happening and wherever you are locally, right? You look at the science and figure it out. But is there -- look, we could revert back, right? That means that things could revert back. There could be a dangerous variant, new variant. So, the situation is fluid.

CHRISTAKIS: It is. And I think masks are going to be on our horizon for foreseeable future. I think everyone, just as I said, has to be ready to -- we can take them off this month, we can put them on next month.

The weird thing about these states that made these recommendations, they're actually making them effective in March. Mid to late March, in some cases. And, you know, none of us has a crystal ball. It could be very easily be the case, Don, that before those recommendations even go into place, they're withdrawn, which clearly would be maddening for some people.

LEMON: Should the White House still be saying masks in schools? Does that create confusion with parents?

CHRISTAKIS: Unfortunately, that's been the case with COVID for many months now, that they're conflicting recommendations, conflicting state recommendations, municipality, county and even federal recommendations. And I understand why parents find it very difficult to figure out what's best for them.

But, look, I've been long in favor of trying to get all of us, especially children, back to some sense of normalcy as soon as possible. From my perspective, as soon as it's safe for any children in any school district to try to get back their lives, we should enable them to do it.

LEMON: For their mental health. Not only for the physical health but for their mental health as well.

Let's talk about vaccines for kids under five. Last week, Pfizer applied for emergency -- for authorization, excuse me, for two doses for kids four and younger. However, in December, the two doses did not produce the expected immunity in two to five-year-old. Are we just going forward assuming that the third dose is going to be effective here? What's the science behind it? What do we know?

CHRISTAKIS: Yeah, it is a really good question. You know, part of what is lost to people on this is that when the recommendation says that two doses aren't effective, it doesn't mean the two doses are ineffective for all children, right?

[23:25:03]

Nothing magically happens with the third or fourth dose. In fact, what we saw with adults was initially we recommended two doses and then we decided you need a booster. So, what that means is that we don't achieve high enough level of immunity in enough children to recommend -- to be certain that the vaccine will work on balance.

So, just like your child may need to get five doses of polio vaccination before they're immune, it doesn't mean they're not immune after two, three or four doses. It just means that the likelihood that they're immune is much higher.

Here is the thing. We make recommendations for vaccines based on safety and efficacy. We know a lot about the safety of the COVID vaccine now. Over 10 million 5 to 11-year-old children have gotten it safely. So, the low dose we're giving, we know it's safe.

And I'm very, very confident based on what I know, which is not as much as the experts that make these recommendations know, that by the time kids are due for their third shot, we'll know that in fact it does proffer enough protection.

LEMON: All right.

CHRISTAKIS: So, what I say to parents as a pediatrician whenever I am giving advice, what would I do if it were my child, and if I had two to five-year-old now, I would immunize them.

LEMON: All right. Doctor, always a pleasure. Thank you. Be well.

CHRISTAKIS: Thanks for having me. Take care.

LEMON: The former president attacking Black prosecutors. Republicans going after President Biden for promising to nominate a Black woman to the Supreme Court. My next guest reports it's all part of an effort to turn the definition of racism on its head.

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[23:30:00]

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LEMON: The former president claims Black prosecutors investigating him are racists. And his supporters in Congress claim it is discriminatory for President Biden to pick a Black woman for the Supreme Court. My next guest reports that Trump and allies are trying to redefine racism by casting white men as victims.

Joining me now is Cleve Wootson, Jr., White House reporter for "The Washington Post". Good to see you, Cleve. Thank you for joining. Appreciate it.

CLEVE WOOTSON, JR., WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Don.

LEMON (on camera): Let's start with the former president and his accusations of racism against Black prosecutors who are investigating him. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, I hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protest we have ever had in Washington, D.C., in New York, in Atlanta and elsewhere because our country and our elections are corrupt. They are corrupt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Okay. So, at another rally, the former president falsely claimed that with people don't get the COVID vaccine or have to go into the back of the line for treatment. Why is he claiming that and other white people are victims of racism when it's really not the case?

WOOTSON: I think it is because it gives them power. I talked to, for the story, one political scientist who said, what's the worst thing you can call somebody in America today? Right up there on the list is the word racist.

Once you have labelled your enemies, your opponents, people who have opposing viewpoints racists, it gives you power and it takes power away from them at the same time, particularly for Trump who's under investigation, who may see power waning. You know, the question is like whether or not that is going to actually give him and his allies more power or more credence to their points.

LEMON (on camera): President Biden's decision to nominate a Black woman to the Supreme Court sparked this backlash, including from GOP senators. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROGER WICKER (R-MS): The irony is that the Supreme Court is at the same time hearing cases about this sort of affirmative, racial discrimination --

(LAUGHTER)

UNKNOWN: Yes. WICKER: -- while adding someone who is the beneficiary of the sort of quota.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): He is saying, if you are a white guy, tough luck. If you are a white woman, tough luck. You don't qualify.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Okay. There's a whole lot of history that goes behind who's been on Supreme Court and who's had access to that. They frame Biden's pick as discrimination against white people, when white people have made up the vast majority of the court since its inception. Do they actually believe Biden's pick is racist or is this just rhetoric?

WOOTSON: Well, one of the things that I sought to understand is it's less about whether they believe it and more about whether it works.

LEMON: It's worse if they actually don't believe it, quite frankly, but go on.

WOOTSON: Yeah, you can argue that it is disingenuous if they don't. So, I don't even go there to try to figure out, you know, inside the head of these folks. But I am trying to understand whether or not it resonates with their bases, whether or not people are listening to this and see, you know, how things happen at their jobs or with their kids in school or their feelings on critical race theory, and whether that impacts whether they vote in 2022 or 2024 or who gets what vote and what power.

LEMON: So, what is Ted Cruz or Donald Trump for that matter, what is their definition of racism? How do they see it differently than Black Americans?

[23:34:59]

WOOTSON: So, their view of racism as sort of extrapolated by what they said and their thoughts is basically that in order to be non- racist, it has to be completely race-neutral in every possible way. So, if you put your thumb on the scale for any person because of reasons other than merit, then you have (INAUDIBLE) into the area of being a racist and all of these corrective measures that we talk about when we try to dismantle systemic racism in America, those, they say, are the things that are actually racism.

LEMON: Yeah. They should look at the qualifications of the women who they have been -- the names that they've been vetting around. Overqualified, quite frankly.

You write about this about Trump and his allies. To make America more equitable, they argue everyone must be treated equally and, therefore, white men must not in any way be disadvantaged. That is what I was getting at. How much of this is the reaction to attempts not to disadvantage white men who have historically had the advantage but to open up more opportunities for everyone? WOOTSON: Yeah. And their -- you know, the most important thing in this is the perspective that they're looking at, right, or that they're trying to tap into, because if you look historically over the arc of our nation's history, there is a correction that a lot of people say just needs to happen, has to happen.

But if you look right now at the impact it is having on particularly white men at this moment, you know, if you're a white man that is trying to get a job or trying to get into higher education and you see the thumb on the scale for anybody else that is not you, then you're seeing it as discrimination.

And what Trump and what Cruz and what Wicker are tapping into is that sentiment right now, which sort of ignores the historical weight that Websters or historians, sociologists look at over time about corrective measures when it comes to racism.

LEMON: Yeah. There is a lot to discuss here. We will continue to talk about it. We will have you back. Thank you, Cleve. Appreciate it.

WOOTSON: Of course.

LEMON: Breonna Taylor, Amir Locke, lives lost to no-knock warrants. Now, calls are growing to eliminate those warrants entirely.

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[23:40:00]

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LEMON (on camera): Tonight, the Minneapolis City Council saying it is reviewing policies regarding no-knock warrants in the aftermath of the shooting death of Amir Locke by police last week.

The 22-year-old Black man was sleeping when officers burst in on him. Bodycam video shows Locke holding a gun. Btu his family says it was a legal firearm. And police say he was not even named in any search warrants. Locke's parents now demanding an end to the use of no-knock warrants. Here's CNN's Omar Jimenez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Do you blame the officer or the system that put this officer in this position in the first place?

LOCKE: The no-knock warrant is what caused Amir's death.

WELLS: The whole system. He wasn't killed, he wasn't murdered, he was executed.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): The parents of 22-year-old Amir Locke want to end what led to their son's killing, no-knock warrants, which let police enter a location without first knocking and announcing their presence. As police barge into the apartment where Locke appear to be sleeping, shouting commands, he started to get up, holding a gun his family says he legally owned, and police opened fire.

His parents see it as a failure in law enforcement.

WELLS: As a professional, people that carry guns and are supposed to protect and serve a community, they didn't protect my son that day. They chose not to do it. And they took him from me. And I am angry.

LOCKE: The love that I have for my boy, our boy, who is next?

JIMENEZ (voice-over): It's an issue that extends beyond Minneapolis and has for years.

In Chicago in 2019, officers executed a no-knock warrant based on bad information, barging in on Anjanette Young, who was naked and later handcuffed in her own living room. As officers searched her place, guns drawn.

In 2021, the city limited no-knock search warrants only to situations where knocking and announcing would be dangerous to the life or safety of the officer serving the warrant or another person. But Young wasn't killed.

In Louisville, it was a different story. Breonna Taylor was shot and killed after a botched raid turned into a hail of gunfire. The fallout eventually led to a total ban of no-knock warrants in the city known as Breonna's law.

In Minneapolis, the Locke family and others are fighting for the same. The city updated its policy in 2020 to limit no-knock warrants but not eliminate them.

JEFF STORMS, LOCKE FAMILY ATTORNEY: Even now, the mayor has said, okay, there is a moratorium on no-knock warrants, except in these situations. We have to challenge them not put a band-aid over no-knock warrants. Why are we not making changes preemptively that stop Amir Locke before Amir Locke ever happens?

[23:45:00]

They need to take the step and completely ban no-knock warrants. It is not safe for either side of the door.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): The city's current moratorium still allows for the warrants if there is an imminent threat and approval from the chief. Separately, Locke's legal gun, his family says, puts him among the roughly 24 percent of Black adults who say they own a gun countrywide, according to Pew Research, which leaves his family wondering what else he could have done in this situation to survive.

LOCKE: I know my son. Lying on his stomach, like he sleeps, with the cover over his head. He didn't even see what was coming. He

couldn't see who took his life. STORMS: There is something at the heart, at the root of Minneapolis that has to change. When you talk about knowing how your son sleeps, I know how my children sleep. I know what is going through their mind at that moment.

LOCKE: Nothing that they can do to bring our son back. But the best thing that they can do at this point, with no-knock warrants and prosecuting an officer who decided to play God, fire him, prosecute him, and just tell the truth, we messed up.

WELLS: He is -- this is just that. My son is a hashtag.

JIMENEZ (on camera): I will say they remember him as more than that. As a talkative, curious about the world son, who smile, still brings his mom comfort. Now, for context, in 2020, the city of Minneapolis executed around 139 no-knock warrants per year. That dropped to 78 in 2021. And so far, this year, we have already seen 11, according to the city.

Now, it was late 2020 the city updated its no-knock warrant policy, not to ban them outright, as Mayor Jacob Frey has been criticized for giving the impression of, but to use them more sparingly in high-risk scenarios. Don?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON (on camera): Omar, thank you so much. I appreciate that. The White House now considering policy that would limit no-knock warrants. But, is it time for an outright ban?

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[23:50:00]

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LEMON: Growing calls tonight to ban no-knock warrants in the aftermath of the shooting death of Amir Locke by Minneapolis police officers. The White House looking to extend restrictions on their use by federal agents.

Let's bring in now CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson. Joey, good evening. Always appreciate your expertise. Let's get into it. So, as you saw in Omar's report there, the woman who was cuffed and searched naked after officers executed a no-knock warrant from bad information. He reported on Breonna Taylor, whose name is now known all across the country after she was shot and killed during the execution of these warrants. Now, we have Amir Locke. Joey, what's going on?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, Don. I think the time has come to evaluate whether or in the no-knock warrants have outlived their usefulness. Now, I understand that police will use them really typically for two reasons. Number one, you don't want evidence destroyed that you might be looking for, drug and other evidence. Number two, you gain a tactical advantage if there is a perceived threat. Having said that, let's take the hat off of the law and look at common sense. In the event that you are in your home and someone is barging into that home and you are an owner of a weapon, what would be the first inclination to believe that you are under attack? As a result of that, you are going to respond in kind.

And so, I think from a perspective of protecting the community and people who are living in residences, who are visiting residences, who are occupying residences, you have to put an end to it. And from the perspective of protecting the police who will be subject to this gunfire, you have to end it there.

I think on both sides of the equation, it only leads to one thing. And that's death, destruction, despair. I think that policymakers have to take a real close look at whether or not these are useful and serving their purposes.

I think if you look at recent history and prior history, the answer to that question is no, and the time to do something about it has to be now before we get another Amir Locke, Breonna Taylor, et cetera. How many names do we have to say in order for an examination to be conducted and for an end really to -- to come to these warrants?

LEMON (on camera): On Friday night, Joey, I spoke with Amir Locke's parents. Here is what they said about their son legally owning a gun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WELLS: He made sure that he did his research. He -- he was -- everything was going to be legal.

LOCKE: Yes.

WELLS: Because they have been watching, all their lives, about what's been unfolding throughout this nation. You know, on our Black males. And I was proud of my son. He -- he picked out his weapon. He did what he needed to do. Basically, be safe with it. How to use it. And he got his permit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, they say that they had spoken with Amir and his brother about how to interact with police so that they can -- quote -- "live to see another day." What -- what does it say that Black folks are concerned about legally owning a gun and the danger that could -- that that could pose for them?

JACKSON: I think it a says an awful lot. I mean, first of all, you look at the Second Amendment, and the Second amendment is the foundation, right? We talk about the fact that people can own guns and be responsible gun owners. Why should that calculus change because you happen to be an African-American male?

[23:55:03]

And so, I think under these times where African-American males are perceived to be a threat in general, I mean, you could only imagine in the event that, you know, an African-American male has a gun, oh, boy, that makes it even more a perception of a threat and putting you in a false light.

And so, you know, I think at the end of the day, responsible gun ownership is responsible gun ownership, irrespective of who you are, what you are, how you look, your creed, religion, et cetera, and anyone who wants to have a gun should have one.

But the fact is that to be killed inside even your own home or a home you are occupying or any other residence, you know, it -- it's just a tragic scenario by any means. And I think we have to re-evaluate people in positions of authority who have this ability to have these no-knock warrants that are leading to the loss of lives that should not be lost.

And so, just a tragedy, heart goes out to his family. But how many times are we going to have prayers for families? I think it's about time that we start praying for our policymakers that they do the right thing, enact the proper legislation, and protect the public who are being killed at rates that are just unlawful, inappropriate, and just shouldn't happen, Don.

LEMON: Joey Jackson, thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

And thank you for watching, everyone. Our coverage continues.

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