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Don Lemon Tonight
Donald Trump Took Home Some Classified Information; January 6th Committee Subpoenaed Peter Navarro; Peter Navarro Blasting Former VP; Nothing Surprising from Trump's Character; U.S. Not Going into a War; Bob Saget Died of Trauma Injury. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired February 09, 2022 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST (on camera): Well, that's it for us tonight. I'll be back tomorrow. DON LEMON TONIGHT starts right now. I almost ended there just to make sure his name -- I said Don Lemon, the show starts tonight. You are the show, my friend. Don Lemon starts tonight.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: It's a real, real show. I've been called a show not even off of television I've been called a show.
COATES: The greatest show on earth.
LEMON: There you go.
COATES: There you go.
LEMON: There you go. I saw you ended your program this evening with the restrictive law about not saying gay. It's -- I mean, what are we doing here? Where are we going to?
COATES: Sometimes don't you feel like you read the headlines and you go, is this a real headline? This is actually happening right now? Or is this some sort of channel that I want to change and go, if this were a movie I would say, this doesn't happen and I more and more between voting rights to this, I think to myself, I'm a little disoriented as to what year it really is.
LEMON: Wow.
COATES: I really am.
LEMON: Profound.
COATES: Are you?
LEMON: Yes, I am. I remember, listen, I guess I can't say gay. Kidding. Because they don't want you to say gay.
COATES: Shh. Shh --
LEMON: I grew up -- (CROSSTALK)
COATES: It might hurt the kids apparently.
LEMON: As someone who grew up with that secret it would have been better to me had I -- if we had more information about it, if we learned about it, if I didn't have to keep it a secret and hold on to those things as many others who grew up like me.
I thought we were moving to a place where it was better for kids who are of the LGBTQ plus community, we wanted to make sure they knew that they were normal, that that is normal so they wouldn't have to harm themselves or even take their lives.
COATES: That's so -- I'm so glad you shared that perspective because it is heart breaking to think about that. Because I know I often read about and you see the notion of it gets better as sort of a way to help people to feel like there is hope on the horizon and I wonder how you convince someone of that when you see that it's getting worse legislatively.
What that looks like to people and feeling that alienation that they're alone or something is wrong. What's wrong is how this is being handled.
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: Nothing else.
LEMON: Yes. Good place to end. Thank you. Laura. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a good night.
COATES: Don Lemon the show starts now.
LEMON: The greatest show on earth starts right now. This is DON LEMON TONIGHT. Thank you so much for joining us.
And we're going to begin with breaking news. It seems it becomes every moment lately, right? A lot of news. A lot of breaking news.
The New York Times is reporting, everyone that the National Archives discovered -- I can't believe -- I can't believe I'm reporting this because I am thinking back to 2015 and 2016 and remember the e-mails. My gosh.
The National Archives discovered, according to the New York Times what it believed was classified information in the documents that the former president took with him from the White House when he left Washington in disgrace. They found the information after he returned 15 boxes of documents to the government last month.
And according to a source, it prompted the archives to go to the DOJ for guidance. Mishandling classified documents is a very big deal. Right? Remember? But, should we be saying, but his e-mails! Lock him up. Maybe. Russia if you're listening --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Thirty-three thousand e-mails disappeared.
People who have nothing to hide don't smash phones with hammers. They don't. People who have nothing to hide don't bleach. Nobody's ever heard of it. Don't bleach their e-mails or destroy evidence to keep it from being publicly archived as required under federal law.
She also, and her staff, destroyed some of her 13 different phones but this time with a hammer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Projection, not just in a screening room. On full display. That is happening as the January 6 committee issues a subpoena to Peter Navarro, one of the loudest voices in the room pushing the plan.
Chairman Bennie Thompson writing that Navarro, quote, "hasn't been shy about his role in efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election."
He sure wasn't. He laid out the plan in detail in an interview with the Daily Beast back in December and I quote, "we spent a lot of time lining up over 100 congressmen including some senators. It started out perfectly.
[22:04:58]
At 1 p.m. Gosar and Cruz did exactly what was expected of them. It was a perfect plan and it all predicated on peace and calm on Capitol Hill. We didn't even need any protesters. Because we had over 100 congressmen committed to it."
Again, there it is. Right out in the open. Peter Navarro is not done talking. Just this week he lit into Mike Pence for saying his former boss was wrong and what he asked him to do was un-American, a stunning statement it turns out. Pence didn't originally intend to make.
Sources telling CNN recent criticism from the former president pushed Pence over the edge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NAVARRO, FORMER WHITE HOUSE TRADE ADVISER: Mike, I don't want to hear this crap you are dead politically. Don't be going out and giving speeches and talking smack about Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): The little T-shirt and the thing he is on ESPN. Can you please roll that again? Can I see it? What was that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NAVARRO: Mike, I don't want to hear this crap. You are dead politically. Don't be going out and giving speeches and saying, talking smack about Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): He's on the 50-yard line. And then right into the end zone. OK. This is serious stuff but that is weird whatever it is that is. Peter Navarro came on down -- come on down, I should say, and join the subpoena club along with Steve Bannon, the guy who is just on the TV there, and dozens of others.
And then there is of course Rudy Giuliani who always seems to be behind the wheel of the clown car of crazy. The Washington Post reporting he asked a Michigan prosecutor to give voting machines to Trump's team in a county where mistakes were found and corrected, a county Trump that ended up winning by more than 3,000 votes.
And in the face of all of this, all of the investigations, all of the evidence, all the subpoenas, it seems the one thing that's got Republicans at odds is the RNC's censure resolution and those three words. Right? These three words will live in infamy. You're going to hear them a lot, a lot especially during campaign season. You know them. Legitimate political discourse.
Mitch McConnell just last night smacked down the RNC when he called what happened on January 6th a violent insurrection. And then there's Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz who repeatedly called what happened on January 6th a violent terrorist attack until he had to grovel before Tucker Carlson for the cardinal sin of actually telling the truth. Now he says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): The word insurrection is politically charged propaganda. It is happily used by Democrats and the corporate media. January 6th there were thousands of peaceful protesters exercising their first amendment right to speak.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Well, insurrection is the exact word that describes what happened on January 6th. That's quite an about face for him from violent terrorist attack to calling the word insurrection politically charged propaganda. How about Kevin McCarthy literally running away from a reporter for ABC trying to ask him about the RNC's resolution?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL SCOTT, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, ABC NEWS: Sir, do yo think I can ask you about the RNC --
(CROSSTALK)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: You know what? Make an appointment in the office and come by another time. OK. It's not good -- it's not good to do interviews --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Maybe -- were they in the gym? Nancy Pelosi slamming Republicans and McCarthy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), UNITED STATES SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It's disturbing to see that the Republican leader of the House ran actually literally refused to condemn that resolution of legitimate political discourse. He literally ran away from the press when he was asked about his position. The Republicans can run but they cannot hide from what happened on January 6th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Let's bring in CNN's senior political analyst Mr. John Avlon. His upcoming book "Lincoln and the Fight for Peace." Also, Stuart Stevens the former chief strategist for the Romney presidential campaign.
Good evening to both of you. I mean, was there a treadmill? He was moving. Gosh. We have to laugh at this sometimes. Laughable but not funny.
John, typically Republicans fall in line. They're all on the same page, right? And Democrats are the ones who are beating each other up usually. Instead, it seems like the GOP, the divide is widening here with McConnell and McCarthy split on whether the -- about this RNC censure. How does this play out?
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JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look. The reason that, you know, Republicans usually fall in line except when they are asked to commit to a lie. And so, you're starting to see cracks in the cult. And that's healthy for democracy.
I wouldn't overstate it. Still. we got a handful of these folks. But Mitch McConnell speaking out, Mike Pence speaking out, Mitt Romney speaking out. Tom Tillis. You know, all of a sudden, that creates a little bit more cover for people to stand up and do the right thing. And what you need is for people to say they represent the reality based for Republican Party and push back on the big lie, you know, cultists and their converts like Ted Cruz.
I mean, the fact that, you know, he came out and called January 6 terrorism. Then he had his sort of struggle session with Tucker Carlson. And now he is saying we can't even call it an insurrection let alone terrorism. That's the opposite evolution. That's particularly pathetic but it's not surprising because, hey, Ted Cruz.
LEMON: I mean, you have to know, Ted Cruz has to know when that comes out of his mouth that, you know, it was an insurrection. What else are you going to call it? Stuart, describing January 6th though as legitimate political discourse, why was -- why was this a bridge too far for some in the GOP? I mean, so much has happened and a lot were still saying that, you know, the election was stolen and there were election irregularity. So, why is this a bridge too far?
STUART STEVENS, FORMER CHIEF STRATEGIST, ROMNEY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I think it's saying the parts you're not supposed to say out loud. I just go back to I think there is a danger that we're sort of dumbing down where these people should be and giving them too much credit.
As far as I know, Mitch McConnell still has the position that he would vote for Donald Trump were he the Republican nominee in '24. I think all of those -- so does Pence. No one has said that they will oppose Donald Trump except a few like Cheney and Romney because, that's a small number. And that's where the line should be.
Pence really hasn't come forward as far as I know and said Donald Trump and I lost this election. And I think that's the line we have to hold them to because that's the line really where democracy is. It's not enough to say, just, you know, we need the process of certification I couldn't have changed. He lost. He lost by over eight million votes. He got crushed. You need to go out and say that. Because unless someone is willing to lose there can be no democracy.
LEMON: Stuart, let me ask you this. You're voicing something that is similar to what officer Michael Fanone says. You know, he was the officer that was attacked by those violent rioters, those insurrectionists on January 6th.
And he said, you know, the right things may be coming out of Pence's mouth now or Mitch McConnell's mouth now but why didn't they do this all along? Do you believe that you should meet people where they are or do you think that, no, they're only doing this for political expedience? What do you think of it?
STEVENS: I think McConnell is getting a lot of corporate pressure, a lot of CEOs who would rather have a system like ours in a system like in Russia. More of the country is for democracy than is against it. But the majority of the Republican Party does not believe that Joe Biden is the legally elected president which means the majority of the Republican Party doesn't believe we are in a democracy.
And that's where the dividing line is. It's really, it's not confusing. It's really clear cut. Either you have to be that we have a legal system of elections in which the president of the United States was elected or we don't.
So, I think that all of this just goes back to this fundamental evil that the Republicans embraced for power, and you can't negotiate with evil. I mean, when John and I were Republicans, this was one of the tenets that Republicans prided themselves on.
LEMON: Yes.
STEVENS: Don't negotiate with terrorists. Don't negotiate with evil. At situational ethics. All of those things. Well, those values were right but it's just that Republicans now have the opposite values. LEMON: John, I want you to weigh in. But I'm wondering, you know,
Stuart just said because of corporate pressure he believes that's why McConnell is doing it. Correct me if I'm wrong, Stuart. But is it becoming easier to speak out against Trump? Pence apparently has privately received an outpouring of support from GOP donors and lawmakers.
AVLON: Well, look. I mean, certainly donations are one thing that politicians respond to. Also, the comfort of other colleagues having your back. But of course, Stuart is right. It should come down to basic principle. And he is also right about where the line here is.
It's would you vote for Donald Trump again just because he is a member of your party, which means that you're putting party over country definitionally. I mean, this is -- if somebody trying to overturn an election, incite an insurrection, and continue to lie about it, if that's not too far, what is? The answer is nothing.
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LEMON: John, I want to -- so it appears to me and I've been saying this all along, I think that the Republican Party kind of wants the control, similarity what Stuart is saying is about power, but wants to have a party that is unified regardless of what it's behind. It's, you know, I don't think it's anything good.
They want Trumpism, so to speak, but they don't necessarily want Trump. Do you understand what I'm saying?
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: They think he is too toxic and they're going to lose with him but they sort of want the control and the things that he stood for and the judges and all of that. Does that make sense? Do you understand what I'm saying?
AVLON: Yes, I understand what you're saying and that's one of the many rationalizations that get trotted out when people refuse to condemn Trump directly. And the unspoken part as well, we need his base to win and therefore we can't, you know, afford to take him on. But I don't think you can actually separate Trump and Trumpism at the end of the day.
LEMON: Well, hang on a second. One second. I should have said this. I'm thinking in terms of the upcoming elections is what I'm talking about, I'm not looking back. I'm thinking in terms of the people actually going to the polls and voting for him, supporting him, giving him money even though he is making a lot of money on this coffee table book or whatever. But, go on. Sorry to interrupt.
AVLON: Allegedly.
LEMON: Yes.
AVLON: But, look, I think what the -- clearly, the dance the Republican party is doing, the line they're trying to walk, is to benefit from his support, not piss him off, therefore that means kowtow to him and don't contradict a lie but keep just enough distance where you don't alienate, you know, the center right and swing voters you actually need to win elections in America.
To Stuart's point, the dividing line for folks on the center and swing voters should be do they believe in democracy? Are they backing the big lie? Anything remotely adjacent or accommodating to that is complicit.
LEMON: Yes. I've got to run. But what do you got, the irony of these classified materials and the whole e-mail, but her e-mail last time? I mean, Stuart, quickly, can you -- I mean, what do you -- what do you think of this? Can we -- can this be any more ridiculous?
STEVENS: The entire Trump candidacy shall the campaign was a large criminal enterprise, the entire Trump presidency was a large criminal enterprise. He tried to steal democracy. Why do you think he is not going to steal documents? We have to quit being surprised by this stuff. There were a bunch of gangsters who were running the United States of America.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
AVLON: All right.
LEMON: And that is our breaking news, a possible classified material in boxes the former president took with him when he left the White House. We're going to continue to talk about that.
Plus, Bob Saget's family saying he died from head trauma. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here to explain what might have happened.
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): So, here's our breaking news tonight. The New York Times is reporting the National Archives is discovering what it believes might be classified material in documents it retrieved from the former president after he left the White House.
I want to discuss now with CNN's senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe, the former FBI deputy director, and senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, a former federal prosecutor.
Gentlemen, hello. Thank you for joining. Good evening to you.
The New York Times, Andrew, is reporting tonight that the National Archives discovered what they think is classified information in the records that Trump took with him when he left the White House that have since been returned.
Now the archives has -- the archives has reached out to the Justice Department for guidance. Doesn't classified documents make this a lot more serious? ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it does,
Don. You are no longer talking about potentially the failure to observe the Presidential Records Act which is of course the law that requires the president and the Office of the President to preserve all of the president's records and maintains that the owner of those records is essentially the American people not the president himself.
So. But that's basically an administrative statute. The mishandling statute, which is the one that penalizes people in government positions for taking classified information knowingly and bringing it to a place that's not authorized to keep it, that is a criminal statute. It is punishable by a year in jail or some sort of a fine. So, yes. I think -- I think it steps up the seriousness here considerably.
LEMON: Elie, let's bring you in. How does it look especially, you know, the ruthless attacks on Hillary Clinton about her e-mails and so on, and now you have something that is it seems as serious or maybe even more real than that?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it looks ridiculous, it looks hypocritical. Let's start with that. But legally speaking, if you look at the clips that we showed before of Donald Trump talking about Hillary Clinton's e-mails it shows that Donald Trump has quite a sophisticated understanding of these laws that Andrew was just talking about, the need to preserve documents, especially the need to preserve classified documents.
And so, it sort of takes away that whole ignorance defense. The defense of this was an accident. I didn't realize what I was doing. I didn't realize the significance of these documents. So that's something that I think DOJ is going to be taking a look at and weighing.
LEMON: But how would -- how would they get documents -- why are those documents in the residence?
HONIG: Yes.
LEMON: Things that would to.
HONIG: One of many questions. Were they packed up with the clothing and the China? Right? I mean, how could they have gotten out of the White House in the first place? I mean, there's a million questions that I think DOJ needs to dig into. All those specifics matter because they are going to show us whether this was carelessness on the one hand or intentional on the other.
LEMON: Andrew, are there nuances or different parameters regarding classified status when it comes to the president or former president?
MCCABE: Sure, Don. Because the president of course has the ability to declassify any information or documents that he wants, basically for any reason he wants at any time. So that raises the specter of, well maybe did he declassify these things before he stuffed them in a box in the residence and sent them to Mar-a-Lago? It's a good question but if he did there needs to be some record of
that as well. It's not just, wave the magic wand and say I hereby declassify.
[22:25:02]
Somebody has to make a record of that and record those documents and officially, you know, put them in some sort of release form. So, yes. There's definitely some digging that will have to go on here either by the inspector general for the National Archives or potentially by the Justice Department investigators.
LEMON: Well, you can't, remember they said you couldn't indict or a sitting president couldn't go to jail. Elie. I mean, this is, is he going to say, well, I declassified these or they're no -- I don't know.
HONIG: Well, so he may try to say he declassified it. As Andrew said there has to be a record that he did it at the time. He can't do it now and say I retroactively --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That he did.
HONIG: -- declassify.
LEMON: Also, he can't just say, yes.
HONIG: No.
LEMON: And it depends on what's in the boxes, right?
HONIG: Exactly. And he's going to have to show if he is arguing, well I declassified them, he's got to show he did it back then. Now it's too late.
MCCABE: That's right.
LEMON: Andrew, the January 6th committee issued a subpoena for Trump's one time trade adviser Peter Navarro, he is one of Trump's loyal soldiers working to over -- working overtime to overturn the election. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAVARRO: Everything I'm seeing, Liz, tells me that this election was stolen.
What I think we need to do tomorrow is appoint a special prosecutor to look at this issue. I think the Georgia race needs to be postponed till February because that place is a cesspool of activity. They ran the table on all of these dimensions of irregularities, so we need to do those things and I think we ought to think about seizing the voting machines. They stole this.
JEANINE PIRRO, HOST, FOX NEWS: For sure.
NAVARRO: We can prove it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Wow. Seizing the voting machines. I mean, Navarro is now responding to the committee calling them domestic terrorists. He is clearly defiant here, Andrew. So, what do they gain by getting him before the committee?
MCCABE: Boy, I don't know, Don. Because if he is going to get in front of the committee and talk about running the table on dimensions of irregularities, I'm not sure that anybody learns anything from that. You know, it's just, again, you talk about the rank hypocrisy from this crowd.
For Navarro to have gone on television, on podcasts and talked about all these things so openly and now of course when the congressional committee duly authorized by law to investigate this matter has asked him to come and provide information all of a sudden, that's all privileged and can't be discussed. Which we know is of course utter bunk.
So, once again I'm going to take the same position here, Don. The committee should go after that testimony they think is relevant and important to their inquiry. And if they think Navarro has that sort of information, they should subpoena him and they should pursue enforcement of any subpoena that he ignores.
LEMON: So, Elie, talk -- walk us through the timeline here. How is this all going to play out? Will he show up? Is he going to answer questions in person? Are they going to have to go with the contempt route and at least, I don't know, try to enforce the law here?
HONIG: So, the committee has now subpoenaed Peter Navarro. He seems quite uninclined to testify calling them domestic terrorists, I think is a bit of a tip-off there. But as Andrew said, the committee is going to have to decide whether they want to play hard ball with these folks who are defying them.
There is now a growing list of people who've received subpoenas who have made clear they have no intention to testify. Will the committee hold them in contempt? The committee did it for Steve Bannon and Mark Meadows and then kind of stopped and it's been a while. And so, is the committee going to continue that step and continue holding people in contempt and sending them over to DOJ for potential prosecution?
LEMON: This is so weird. Like everyone else in the world --
HONIG: Has to comply.
LEMON: -- has to comply.
HONIG: Yes.
MCCABE: That's right. LEMON: What the hell?
HONIG: Well, I mean, that's also a question for the committee though. Right? I mean, why, you know, why have they not subpoenaed Ivanka Trump, why have not subpoenaed their own colleagues, Kevin McCarthy and Jim Jordan, people we know have relevant information? So, there is a little distinction in the way the committee is treating more powerful folks, more better-connected folks, versus sort of normal folks.
LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it. Thank you, Andrew. There he is back on up on the screen.
HONIG: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Thank you. I appreciate it.
Documents ripped and retaped. Boxes of documents taken to Mar-a-Lago. I'm going to ask impeachment manager from the second Trump -- we have to distinguish -- there were two of them right -- the second Trump impeachment if he is surprised. Congressman Jason Crow is next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): We are learning more tonight about how far the former president was willing to go to stay in power.
So, joining me now to discuss Democratic Congressman Jason Crow. Congressman, a pleasure. Thank you for joining us this evening.
The National Archives asking the Justice Department to investigate Trump's handling of records after they recovered 15 boxes of documents from Mar-a-Lago. You were an impeachment manager during Trump's second impeachment. Does any of this shock you?
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, I wish that it did shock me, Don, but it doesn't. Unfortunately, which I guess is just an illustration of the depths of the prior administration and what Donald Trump was willing to do.
The only thing that I thought about when I saw this breaking news was the huge disconnect between Donald Trump and the people that he was supposed to lead. When I was an army ranger, we dealt with classified material all the time. And if we took that classified material out of the secure facilities that it was intend to be stored in, we would be in very big trouble.
[22:34:56]
And here you have the commander-in-chief that may have been doing the same thing. Of course, we knew he was cavalier with classified information with the Russians, with, you know, the medians with the Russian foreign minister and so many other examples and this is just yet another one. LEMON: Some Republicans are so on the Trump train, and even Adam
Kinzinger is talking about the risk of civil war. What is going on now?
CROW: Well, what's going on is the Republican Party continues to grapple with its future. You have the main stream of the Republican Party has really capitulated to Donald Trump. And you have a few people with a great courage, who am I to disagree on policy discussions but listen I am willing to have a policy discussion any day of the week with somebody because we deal with hard issues and complicated issues.
This is different. You have people that are just willing to do whatever Donald Trump says, a cultive (Ph) personality. And that's what's happening and it is having that battle for its soul right now. And it is really important that this comes out in the right way. That there is a viable Republican Party.
I say that as a Democrat because we need a viable party to negotiate with, to work with, that will deal with the disinformation, the misinformation, the big lies, and deal with it with some courage.
LEMON: When you see, Congressman, how the divisions that Trump really supercharged how they're only growing wider are you concerned that no matter what the January 6th committee finds that people who don't want to believe it just won't believe it?
CROW: Well, I don't know whether it is growing wider. I know it's growing deeper. So, within those folks who have chosen to believe it or been pulled into the orbit of the big lie and Donald Trump and his enablers, those beliefs are getting more extreme. They're getting more violent in many instances. Threats against members of Congress, against local elected officials, against school board members, and so many others are drastically increasing.
So, I am worried about this extremist movement deepening and changing in nature to become more violent than it has already shown itself to be on January 6th and other occasions. So, we should take that very seriously, and that's another illustration of why we need people on both sides of the aisle, and frankly more Republicans to stand up and show some courage.
A lot of folks don't, they don't, you know, want to listen to me for obvious reasons but they will listen to somebody maybe with a different letter behind their name. And that's why that dissent is so important by Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, and so many others.
LEMON: Before we let you go, I want to ask you about the situation in Ukraine, congressman. You led a congressional delegation there in December to coordinate weapons transfer. The White House has approved a plan to use the military to evacuate U.S. citizens in Ukraine if Russia invades. What more can the U.S. do amid these rising tensions? Should the U.S. be doing more?
CROW: Well, Don, the administration is doing a lot. They sent in defensive weapons systems and equipment for providing assistance on cyber security. We've been training and advising the Ukrainian military for a while. We are leading the NATO coalition in its response.
We are bolstering the eastern flank of NATO and we're doing a bunch of other things as well. So, certainly, a robust response. What Congress needs to do is actually pass a sanctions package and send it to the president for signing.
And I continue to push my colleagues to expedite that sanctions package. That's something that Congress can actually step in to do. But we don't know what Vladimir Putin is going to do. It is very dangerous, it's a very risky situation. I think we have to be -- show a lot of resolve it because we cannot allow a strong men and autocrats like Vladimir Putin literally use tanks in this instance to capture a Democratic, sovereign, free nation.
I think the future of democracy, future of freedom relies on our response here. And this is a very big test for us.
LEMON: Listen, even having the knowledge that you have can, do we know, is there any indication about what Putin will do? What do you think?
CROW: I think it's very, very likely, it's increasingly likely that he will invade. That is my estimation. He may not. I mean, this is not a hundred percent situation. We don't have a crystal ball.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So, what does it mean for us if he does?
CROW: Well, if it does that means we have to pass sanctions. We have to have a very strong response. We cannot not let this go without substantial costs. I think it also means for us we should support a resistance movement. Because one thing is really clear. This is where Putin is wrong. This is where people like to talk about how he plays this masterful game.
I think he is making some potentially huge mistakes here. One of which is he is under estimating the strength of the Ukrainian response and the resistance. Now he might be able to take their conventional army within a couple of weeks or even less but there is going to be a fighting resistance that is going to be very painful for him and the Russian military.
[22:39:59]
The Ukrainians are ready to fight and we've been supporting them and helping bolster that resistance if necessary, and I think Vladimir Putin needs to reassess.
LEMON: Americans are wondering if we are going to have to join in what you're calling that resistance movement. Will there be ground troops from America, or from NATO, or from allied forces?
CROW: I don't see that happening. The president has been very clear that we are not going to send American combat troops into action here and to be in a situation of even a close conflict with the Russian military. That's the right decision by the president. We certainly don't need to be involved in another war right after he ended our nation's longest war. That there are many, many other things we can do to support our Ukrainian partners and our friends and make this the wrong move for Russia.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Congressman. I appreciate your time.
CROW: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Breaking tonight we are learning the cause of death for actor and comedian Bob Saget. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to explain right after this.
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LEMON (on camera): Breaking news tonight. Bob Saget's cause of death revealed. His family saying in a statement the authorities have determined that Bob passed from head trauma. They have concluded that he accidentally hit the back of his head on something, thought nothing of it, and went to sleep. No drugs or alcohol were involved.
Saget was found dead in an Orlando, Florida in a hotel room there after performing a two-hour comedy set on January 9th. The family is saying that they have been overwhelmed by the outpouring of love since Saget's passing, and going on to say, and I quote here, "now that we have the final conclusions from the authorities' investigation, we felt it only proper that the fans hear those conclusions directly from us."
Let's discuss this now with CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us. Sanjay, thanks so much. Help us understand what kind of head trauma would this be?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it sounds like from, you know, what they're saying there is that this was a, probably a bleed that occurred on top of the brain. Subdural hematoma is one of the most common scenarios here. And this is tough to talk about, Don. It's tough to be so clinical about this.
But you can what's happening there. There is a blood collection in this scenario that's on top of the brain pushing on the brain. And the thing, Don, about the brain unlike any other organ in the body it's obviously encased in hard skull so it has nowhere to go if it has this kind of pressure on it.
The pressure on the brain, on the brain stem, and then ultimately someone loses consciousness and they lose their ability to breathe on their own and they subsequently die. It's really, it's sad. You know, he was alone it sounds like. It may be -- it may have been a pretty significant blow to the head. Maybe a fall in the bathroom or on the headboard of your bed or something like that, you don't think anything of it. Small veins can tear as a result of that blow and blood can start to leak. And over a few hours it can accumulate someone may lose consciousness and all of the things I just mentioned sort of transpire.
LEMON: Yes.
GUPTA: So sad scenario but that's, it sounds like that's what the family is sort of describing here.
LEMON: Being in a room that you're not familiar with, you go to the bathroom in the middle of the night or something --
GUPTA: Right.
LEMON: -- you trip and you hit something and just don't think about it and you go right back to bed. And just like, but just like hitting your head board, right, with your bed, if you're laying back and you hit the head board would that -- that's not hard enough to cause that, is it?
GUPTA: I wouldn't think so. No. I mean, there are a couple things, you know, just from a trauma neuro surgery standpoint, you know, I do want to know if someone was on blood thinners, for example. Someone is on blood thinners that may make them more likely to bleed with a less significant blow.
But I think this was probably a pretty significant hit to the head. But you know, again, as you mentioned, that really hurt, I mean, fell, slipped, even hit the back of my head. That really hurt. But I didn't lose consciousness. I feel OK.
If someone were around and they were saying, hey look, do you have a headache? Is that headache worsening? The person appears confused, they're slurring their speech, they're becoming nauseated or even vomiting, things like that, those would all be indicators that something is happening that you obviously should go get checked out quickly.
But again, being alone, not being certain just how significant a blow to the head did I just take, I'm just going to go to bed. That's again, sad. But it sounds like what happened here.
LEMON: Is it common? Does this happen a lot? We don't hear about it because it's not a celebrity?
GUPTA: It's more -- yes. I think it's is far more common than people realize these types of subdural, these types of blood collections on the brain. They can occur in a very acute, sudden way like it sounds like with Bob Saget. They can be sort of slower, the blood can be slower accumulating, accumulate over days and weeks. And they can even be chronic.
Sometimes, you know, we have older patients, people who are quite old they may have hit their head on the car, the frame of the car as they are getting inside. And again, they think, that hurt. They don't think anything of it. And then a couple of weeks later they start to have symptoms. So, when you look at all those categories of those types of brain
bleeds, they are not uncommon but the situation that seems to have happened with Bob Saget, that's, you know, I don't want to suggest that everyone who hits their head should immediately go get a CAT Scan. Most do not need that obviously. But if it is a significant blow, if you're on blood thinners. He was 65. Not old but your brain does tend to shrink a bit as you get older so there is more room for that blood to accumulate.
And again, those symptoms, worsening headaches, confusion, nausea, vomiting, slurring of speech, things like that that are unusual, you should definitely go get that checked out.
LEMON: You're right. It's really sad. Thank you, Sanjay. I appreciate you joining us.
GUPTA: Thank you.
LEMON: So much for the art of the deal, the former president's much touted trade deal with China is, take this, billions of dollars short.
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LEMON (on camera): Take this. A massive trade deal made by the self- proclaimed dealmaker, former president, it's more like no deal. A new report finds that China has fallen $213 billion short. Yes, billion with a b, of its commitment to purchase U.S. goods and services in a 2020 deal made by former President Trump. Trump made sure everyone knew about the agreement.
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TRUMP: I told China a couple of months ago, do me a favor. We're going to make a deal. Start buying. Start buying.
I think the biggest thing about getting the deal with China, number one, it's a great deal for us. It's an important deal for China because they were -- you know, their supply chains were breaking.
We are doing deals like the great China deal. We'll be taking in $250 billion.
[22:55:01]
Everybody said you'll never make a deal with China. I made a deal with China. It's a great deal.
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LEMON (on camera): Kept slinging. People kept buying it. And it was quite literally a big deal. Really, it made headlines here on CNN and around the world. It was set to be just phase one of trade agreements with China. So, you probably would have thought it was a guarantee, right? But it didn't happen. Beijing had promised to purchase $200 billion more in American exports
than it had in 2017. And it required that the commitments were met by the end of the year. That deadline was missed. Now President Biden is suggesting that he is leaving Trump-era tariffs on China in place because they didn't meet their commitments. So, it looks like there just wasn't enough art in Trump's deal.
Next, was there classified information at Mar-a-Lago? Over a dozen boxes of presidential documents taken to Mar-a-Lago instead of where it should be, to the proper archives. They could have classified information inside.
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