Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

CNN Poll: Majority Of Americans Feel Democracy Is Under Attack; WAPO: Some White House Records Trump Took To Mar-A-Lago Were Marked 'Top Secret'; DHS Warns Of Trucker Protests Disrupting Super Bowl; White Father And Son In Mississippi Charged For Chasing And Shooting At Black FedEx Driver; Hip-Hop Artists Taking Center Stage At Super Bowl Halftime Show. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired February 10, 2022 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): Taking top secret White House documents. "The Washington Post" is reporting that some of the records the former president took with him to Mar-a-Lago when he left office were marked top secret.

Black FedEx driver shot at. Two Mississippi white men, a father and son, facing criminal charges for allegedly shooting at the driver, who says he has no doubt it was racism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D'MONTERRIO GIBSON, SHOOTING VICTIM: I mean, what other reason would they be shooting at me at nighttime? I hadn't said anything to them. I had no worry. We had no type of interaction at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): And hip-hop legends taking center stage at the Super Bowl halftime show on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DRE, HIP-HOP ARTIST: We're going to show exactly how professional we can be, how dope we can be on stage, and how exciting we're going to be to the fans. So, we're going to let you know what it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, let's bring in now CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein and political commentator Bakari Sellers. Gentlemen, good evening to both of you. Thanks so much for joining us.

So, Ron, to you first. Our new CNN poll shows that the majority of Americans feel our democracy is under attack or being tested. Just six percent say it's not in danger. Regardless of the reason or who is to blame here, almost everyone sees the threat. RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. Look, we are clearly in a different era than we have been through most of our history.

I mean, you know, we are not only seeing the legal attacks on the availability of voting, access to voting on the one hand and an administration and tabulation of voting on the other, but we are seeing threats of violence woven into our politics from bottom to top at a level that has never been routine in American life. I mean school boards, local public health officials, municipal officials, election officials all facing threats.

And look, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that all of this was enormously turbocharged by Donald Trump throughout his presidency since he has left office with a wink and a nod and sometimes more towards the use of violence as a political tactic going all the way back to that, you know, very first campaign and some of the rallies where he talked about, you know, pay the legal bills of people who punch protesters.

So, you know, people who study democracy say we are on a trajectory that other democracies have deteriorated along, and we need both parties to more clearly send a message, but, obviously, the opposite is happening with Republicans censuring Kinzinger and Cheney rather than those who assaulted the Capitol.

LEMON: You know, Bakari, when you say things about our democracy being in peril, it seems, you know, that's a little bit nebulous. But when you're talking about people's pocketbooks, right, inflation climbing at the fastest pace in 40 years, Americans are hurting, it's showing in the CNN polling, only 37 percent approve of Biden's handling of the economy, how can the president turn this around, Bakari?

[23:05:07]

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Deliver. I mean, I think that there's a fundamental disconnect between the messaging of the White House and the American people. I've echoed this for a long period of time. You've seen in it in the polls. Ron Brownstein can dissect polls in his sleep better than I can after studying for weeks at a time. So, I dare not dig too deep with him on the same panel.

But I think the White House should be able to see what we all can see. The fact is their messaging simply isn't working. It's not connecting with average every day Americans because the pain the people are feeling at the grocery store, at the pump, and then the inability to pass your signature pieces of legislation -- now, as soon as I say that, people are going to say, well, they got shots in arms, true, they passed the Recovery Act, true, the COVID relief package, transportation, I understand that, but people still have pain.

I have a good friend of mine who is best friends with Charlamagne tha God. And we always talk. And his name is Wax. And Wax was talking about the crime that we have in communities. And Wax said, now, you don't even have to be rich to be robbed. You just have to have more than I have, right?

And so, you see the violence that is going on in these communities all because of that pain that people are feeling in their pocket. And the White House is somewhat ambivalent to that pain and not messaging, acting as if they're empathetic, which is Joe Biden's number one trait.

LEMON: Ron, I want you to weigh in because, look, food prices are up seven percent from a year ago. Used cars, used cars --

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.

LEMON (on camera): -- 41 percent. Gas up 40 percent. The president was asked about these brutal numbers on NBC. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESTER HOLT, NBC HOST: When can Americans expect some relief from this soaring inflation?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: According to Nobel laureates, 14 of them that contacted, and a number of corporate leaders, it ought to be able to start to taper off as we go through this year. In the meantime, I'm going to do everything in my power to deal with the big points that are impacting most people and their homes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, two months ago, Ron, President Biden said that we were at the peak of the inflation crisis and things have gotten worse. Is that making it hard for Americans to trust him?

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah, look, you know, back in the Jurassic age, I started my career covering politics in the early 1980s, the last time we had a serious round of inflation, the largest number, you know, 1982, since the one that was just recorded.

And Don, it's an invasive plant species. I mean, it blots out everything else. I mean, people feel inflation with irregularity and immediacy that's almost unmatched by any other issue. It's in your life all the time, the grocery store, any time you make a purchase, the gas station.

And so, it's really hard for a president, I think, to kind of rise above that undertow. Biden certainly has to be seen as doing more, as Bakari said, but until the problem itself is better under control, it's hard to imagine that it's going to get completely better.

It's a little bit of a double whammy at the moment. You know, one thing we know is that swing voters, who are not really deeply tied to either party, are incredibly sensitive to current events. Their view of the president and the parties is really based on how they feel the country is doing at this moment around them. And for those voters, there's a lot to be unhappy about right now. And then for base voters, delivering on your agenda is really important. And because primarily because of Manchin and Sinema, Biden can't point to a lot of progress on many of the key elements there either. So, he is getting squeezed from both sides at this moment and needs something to give between now and November or Democrats are going to have a long night.

LEMON: Bakari, you probably weren't even born then, but I understand what Ron is saying because I was driving my parents, 1976, El Dorado, the high school, and the gas prices were so expensive.

SELLERS: Did you guys have TVs? Did you all have TVs?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I told them I did want the car, and I ended up working at McDonald's and buying a VW beetle. It was cheaper for me to buy that than to pay for gas for the '76 El Do (ph), so I know exactly what he's talking about.

Let me ask you about -- it's not just the president's handling of the economy, Bakari. His overall approval numbers dropped eight points in just the last month. And 56 percent of Americans say that there's nothing that Biden has done that they approve of. What does that mean for the midterms?

SELLERS: Well, they are lucky the midterms are important. We are lucky the midterms aren't today is what it means. I mean, there's no way to look at those numbers and not say that it's bleak. But, again, that goes to the messaging. That goes to getting Joe Biden and Kamala Harris outside of the beltway.

I mean, with the accomplishments that they've had, imagine Donald Trump passing a transportation bill. I mean, that man would be everywhere all the time talking about it nonstop. I mean, you have to make sure that people not only understand but can feel the legislation that you've passed.

[23:10:02]

And Joe Biden needs a win. And so, that's one of it reasons that people are somewhat ecstatic about this Supreme Court nominee because this is delivering on one of his promises, this will be momentum for the base, and this will be a win. And he needs that. But then he needs to capitalize on this.

And with all due respect to my friends in the White House, I don't care what Nobel Peace Prize laureates say about inflation. We know that Joe Biden didn't cause inflation, but we expect him to be able to feel our pain and be empathetic, like stop force-feeding him talking points about Nobel laureates, actually allow him to be Joe Biden, and then get in the room with a bipartisan group of senators and fix the damn problem.

LEMON: All right, there you go. Yes, we did have television (INAUDIBLE).

BROWNSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE) networks.

LEMON: No, we had cable then. We just started getting cable. Remember showcase and we had cable vision. It was just starting.

SELLERS: I had a satellite dish. Does that count?

LEMON: That was later on. You're a baby. Thank you. I'll see you both. I want to turn now to the new "Washington Post" reporting that some of the records Trump took to Mar-a-Lago after leaving office were clearly marked classified, including some at the top-secret level.

So, joining me now is someone who knows all about how official documents should be handled, and that's Jason Baron. He is the former director of litigation at the National Archives and Records Administration. He also worked as senior counsel at the Department of Justice. Jason, good to have you on. Thank you very much. I want to get your reaction --

JASON BARON, FORMER DIRECTOR OF LITIGATION AT NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION, FORMER SENIOR COUNSEL AT DOJ: Thank you.

LEMON: Absolutely. To Trump taking top secret records from the White House. What kind of documents would have this type of classification? And how are they supposed to be handled?

BARON: Well, documents at the top-secret level are marked that way because they might cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security. And so, you would expect that a top-secret document could be something related to a very sensitive matter of foreign policy, or a document from the Intelligence Community, or other categories.

And so, it's very serious to have anyone, whether it's a president or someone at the White House, direct that boxes filled with classified documents go somewhere that they're not supposed to go, because under the Presidential Records Act, at noon on inauguration day, on January 20th, all of the president's records should be turned over to the National archives, and the archives knows where to put them in a warehouse.

And the fact that there are boxes at Mar-a-Lago shows that something very wrong has happened.

LEMON: With top secret documents, would there be copies or a chain of custody records so investigators would know who had their hands on them?

BARON: There could be. Government documents, generally, there's not a unique one except if they're handwritten notes, so we can get into the ripping up of those. But generally, there are multiple copies and there's a trail that can be followed.

LEMON: Why are they -- I mean, these documents, I guess, should they be hanging out in the West Wing or I should say in the residence? How did these documents get to Mar-a-Lago? You know, that's the million- dollar question. BARON: Right. I don't know the answer to that. But you're absolutely right that there are numerous government procedures that all personnel are trained on or supposed to be --

LEMON: Uh-hmm.

BARON: -- on handling classified documents, including putting them in skiffs, in secured compartmental information facilities. And so, the fact that they might be handled in a different manner through the residence or through the White House than what are normal procedures is quite disturbing.

LEMON: We're also learning that he routinely ripped up documents that had to be taped back together, and a White House staffer tells "The Washington Post" that they even searched for records in classified burn bags. There's also Maggie Haberman's reporting in her new book that Trump flushed papers down the toilet. Is this like anything that you have ever dealt with at the National Archives?

BARON: No, and I'm sure the good people at the Archives are shocked at some of the stories coming out, which they hadn't even known about during the years of the former president. It is amazing that there could be this level of cavalierness taken to what should be a serious duty, which is to preserve records for the American people.

[23:14:57]

And I want to say, Don, that with respect to your back and forth with John Dean earlier in the show, you asked him about the 18-1/2-minute gap --

LEMON: Right.

BARON: -- and let me just say that as bad as that was and as all of the problems of Watergate, the records laws at that time were that President Nixon owned his documents and it was because of his criminal acts that they were brought up and made by Congress records.

But after that, the Presidential Records Act of 1978 was passed to ensure that the American people own the records of the White House, not the president himself, but the American people. And these kind of actions of ripping up documents on a largescale basis or the other action you mentioned just fly in the face of what the Presidential Records Act is all about.

LEMON: Jason, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much.

BARON: Thank you.

LEMON: Could a trucker protest in this country disrupt the Super Bowl? And what do officials need to do now to be ready? We're going to talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So here we go. Three border crossings between the U.S. and Canada cut off by Canadian truckers and their allies protesting COVID restrictions. The U.S. is already suffering a multimillion-dollar economic impact and warning of potential disruptions by truckers within our own borders as soon as Sunday.

Here with me now, Shawn Turner. Shawn Turner is a former National Intelligence director of communications. Shawn, appreciate you joining us. Let's get into this. The protest by the truckers and others inspired by them are blocking several border points causing mayhem. Ottawa police say protesters are flooding 911 lines. Around 70 vehicles attempted to disrupt traffic at Ottawa International Airport this morning. Explain how this has escalated to an actual security threat.

SHAWN TURNER, FORMER NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, PROFESSOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION AT MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY: Yeah. Thanks for having me on, Don.

First, I think it's important to point out there's a lot of discussion about the impact on goods coming into the United States at these border crossings, but we simply cannot underestimate the fact that any time we have a disruption at one of our border crossings, especially when we're talking about the largest and most significantly used border crossing in the United States, there are going to be significant security risks.

Now, there are a couple of things that we need to look at here. One, we know that any time we have a blockade like this and we have it in multiple locations, the longer this goes on, the more tensions are going to rise.

There are going to be more people right here in Michigan, I am about an hour and a half from the Ambassador Bridge, and I can tell you that it's already having an impact here. Tensions are going to rise.

And we can't forget that we're talking about a blockade over an issue that has been extremely divisive here in the United States. There's been violence over this issue, of vaccines here in the United States and around the world. So, we have to understand that people are going to get worked up about this.

More importantly, Don, is that the law enforcement officials who have to deal with this issue both on the Canada side and here in the United States, look, this is going to consume a lot of their time and effort. And as they're focused on what's happening on this bridge, that takes their eye off the ball with regard to other things that are going on at our border crossings.

And so, you know, there are significant concerns here and as we -- I'm sure we will get into this -- talk about what's happening at the Super Bowl, I'm extremely concerned about this. There is report from Department of Homeland Security that suggests that there may be additional disruptions there.

LEMON: On this side of the border, the White House says that they are closely monitoring the situation. The DHS put out a warning, saying that truckers could soon begin protesting, disruptions, as you mentioned, starting Sunday at the Super Bowl in Los Angeles. What do security officials need to do now to make sure things stay safe?

TURNER: Yeah, you know, Don, we can't underestimate the importance of this bulletin. The Super Bowl is one of the largest and most significant security operations in the country every year. It involves thousands of local, state and federal law enforcement officials. It involves military support from the air to secure the Super Bowl.

And even as all of that's happening, the prospect that we might have as protests not only can disrupt what's happening at the Super Bowl, but here's what I'm really concerned about, that disruption also creates a window of opportunity for bad actors who see that law enforcement are focused on what's happening with the protests and counterprotests. It creates an opportunity for bad actors to further disrupt the event.

So, what needs to happen right now? Well, that security that is one of the largest security operations in the country, it needs to get even bigger. We saw that the secretary of Department of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas, went out to California. I think that's a good thing.

I think for the military providing air support for the federal agents there, there needs to be a concerted effort to look at the potentiality with regard to the protests, but to also have people who are in law enforcement, who are not focused on this potential protest but who remain focused on the broader security operation at the Super Bowl.

We absolutely have to make sure that we don't take our eye off the ball here with regard to creating an opportunity for other bad actors.

LEMON: Huge economic implications here, as you mentioned. You said that you are an hour and a half from where this is happening.

[23:25:00]

Let's talk about the impact on the supply chain in your state. GM canceled two ships this week. Factories that manufacture Chrysler and Dodge vehicles have shortened ships. Toyota says that their plants are -- the Kentucky plant is affected, too. Their plants are affected as well as the plant in Kentucky. Huge economic implications.

TURNER: Yeah, absolutely. And if you look at what comes across the Ambassador Bridge here, we're in Michigan, and the automobile industry is one of it, if not the biggest industry here. And so, with about a quarter of all of the traffic coming across that bridge for the automobile industry, we're already seeing slowdown in the supply chain, we're already seeing issues with businesses being able to get the supplies that they need.

So, you know, Don, this just -- this just escalates a situation that's already bad. And what I really see here is the intersection between the inability to get these goods across the bridge and frustration on the part of people not only here in Michigan but all across the country as prices continue to go up, as their ability to work and to take care of their families, you know, is impacted by this.

And, again, these sorts of things really do get us into that space of thinking about the national security impacts.

LEMON: Yeah.

TURNER: This creates an environment of chaos and disruption. And so that's why for right now the White House, the Department of Homeland Security, the focus has to be on de-escalation and getting to a peaceful resolution of the strike.

LEMON: Shawn Turner, thank you very much. Appreciate that.

TURNER: Thanks, Don.

LEMON (on camera): A Black FedEx driver delivering packages says he was chased and shot at by two white men, his truck riddled with bullet holes. His lawyer saying that he is lucky to be alive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: On the heels of the death of Ahmaud Arbery, we could have had the same situation here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A Black FedEx driver is accusing two white men, a father and son, of chasing him and shooting at his van while he was trying to deliver packages. Twenty-four-year-old D'Monterrio Gibson's van was hit with bullets, but he emerged unscathed. The suspects are out on bond tonight after being charged for chasing and shooting at Gibson.

The whole thing echoes really of the tragic death of Ahmaud Arbery, who was chased by three white men before he was shot to death nearly two years ago.

Our CNN correspondent Nick Valencia joins me now with the very latest. Nick, good evening to you. You spoke with Gibson today. What did he tell you about happened?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, Don, he's upset. He is upset about what happened. He is upset also, he says, at the way police initially handled what he had to tell them, saying that they were skeptical of his story, going so far as to play devil's advocate, asking him if he had anything suspicious. He is also upset at the employer, FedEx, saying that they put him on the very same route that next day after the shooting. He since taken a leave of absence but says that he has not heard from FedEx in over a week, although they did offer to pay for counseling sessions.

But mostly, as you mentioned, he knows how eerily similar this is to what happened to Ahmaud Arbery. And in his mind, there is no mistake about what happened. He says these two white men, father and son, tried to kill him because he is Black.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA (voice-over): Your are convinced that this was racism?

GIBSON: Yes sir.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Why?

GIBSON: I mean, what other reason would they be shooting me at nighttime? I hadn't said anything to them. I had no worry. We had no type of interaction at all. (INAUDIBLE) it was me (INAUDIBLE) full uniform.

VALENCIA (on camera): So, this is about being Black in America? Just doing your job while Black?

GIBSON: Yes sir.

VALENCIA (on camera): You could've been another name like Ahmaud Arbery?

GIBSON: Yes, sir.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Did you think about that?

GIBSON: I did think about that. That is why it's very important for me to speak out currently because I got to say they're not here to speak for themselves, so I'm going to speak for them as well as myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA (on camera): Gibson said that this experience has forever changed his life and shows him that racism is still alive and well here in Mississippi, Don.

LEMON: You know, it is still very early on in this investigation, Nick, and so they going to -- will figure all of that way out, hopefully as this investigation moves along. But the police chief is standing by, his detectives and his investigators. He pushed back on the notion that Brookhaven has a racist police department. But this investigation may be in the hands of the FBI. Do we know how they would be looking at this case?

VALENCIA: Yeah, we spoke to the police chief earlier today, who we should mention is Black, and he pushed back at any allegation that this town is racist. He said this is the town where he was born and raised. He was elected as chief here and he pushes back on any assertion that this town is racist.

He did say, though, that this morning, he was visited by the FBI, handed over the case file. We did reach out to the FBI. They would not confirm or deny as it is their policy. But we do know that the Department of Justice has received a request to review this case.

Right now, though, the attorneys for Gibson are just furious at how this has been handled. They say that the cases were given eight days, from the time that the incident took place to the time that they were allowed to turn themselves in. That has really displeased them of how this was all handled.

They want an attempted murder charge here. The cases were charged with aggravated assault. But to them, it is very clear what happened here, that Gibson was targeted because he was Black and that they tried to kill him that night.

LEMON: Nick Valencia, thank you very much.

[23:35:00]

I appreciate that. Delivering packages while Black. Jogging while Black. Is this every day life for Black Americans? Shouldn't be. We are going to talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, the two white men charged with chasing and shooting into the van of a Black FedEx driver are out on bond tonight, but there are serious questions being raised about the charges.

[23:39:59]

So, joining me now, Captain Ron Johnson, who restored peace between the community and police in Ferguson, Missouri after the fatal shooting of Michael Brown. Captain Ron, it's good to see you. Thank you for joining us on this.

We don't know -- the investigation is still going on here, but the alleged shooter is being charged with attempting to cause bodily injury with a firearm and a deadly weapon by shooting the vehicle with Gibson inside.

The accusation is one guy shooting into a car, another trying to drive him off the road. What are these things -- what do you think of these charges?

RON JOHNSON, FORMER INCIDENT COMMANDER IN FERGUSON, MISSOURI: Well, it's definitely beyond attempting to harm. I think there's got to be some charges that would better fit this. Surely, I'm not familiar with the laws of Mississippi, but attempt to harm, it's obviously the intent was greater than that when using a handgun shooting at someone.

LEMON (on camera): Gibson is saying that one of the officers was playing devil's advocate and was asking if he did anything to make the alleged shooters suspicious. The police chief is pushing back. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH COLLINS, CHIEF OF POLICE: When you come down, you have to ask certain questions, you know, just like if you come down, investigators have to ask you certain questions, because if we don't investigate, we don't do our job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): What do you think of using that type of tactic if that's what -- I don't know. Is that a police officer's place here? Is that what they do?

JOHNSON: No, I disagree. I think we have a victim here. I think we need to listen to his story. But I think, the question, it kind of puts it back on him, like he has done something wrong. And I think from the story we've heard, he's in a FedEx uniform. When they called dispatch, they said we had a suspicious person in the area.

So, I don't think you -- when you talk to victims, you listen to their story. I don't think he said, well, did you do something wrong? I think someone shot at someone else and I think we need -- that's where we need to address that issue and listen. And I think when we talk about trust in America with law enforcement, I think these are the things that bring that divide sometimes.

LEMON: What he'd do to make them suspicious? That's interesting. So, Gibson's attorney is saying if it were a Black father and son who were shooting at a white victim, that they would have been in jail immediately. The two suspects in this case, by the way, were free for eight days before they were brought in by police. What do you think about that?

JOHNSON: What I will say, as a law enforcement officer, we go out and look for people that have committed less crimes instead of taking an act where you're shooting at someone. And so, I will say and I think that when we look at some of our lower income neighborhoods, they will say that if they committed a crime like this, that they would have been arrested a lot sooner and they wouldn't have had the opportunity to turn themselves in.

And so, I was surprised by that, that you would allow someone to turn himself in, because these guys could have gone out and committed the same crime against someone else.

LEMON: Gibson is convinced that this case is about race. After hearing about what happened here in 2022, after all that we've been through with racial injustice over just the last two years, everything, you know, George Floyd to Ahmaud Arbery, are you surprised to see this?

JOHNSON: No, I'm not. I think in our country, you know, racism is a part of our landscape, and I think when I hear the chief say that racism is not a part of Mississippi or racism is not a part -- doesn't exist in his department, I think that we're failing as leaders when we have that kind of conversation.

Racism has been a part of our landscape and our past history and our current history, and it's something we have to work toward to eradicate.

LEMON: We're so grateful to have you on to talk about this story with us. Thank you very much for that. Appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you. Well, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Mary J. Blige, and that's not -- look at Snoop. That's not all. Hip-hop taking center stage at the Super Bowl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): I love Mary J. I love everybody there, but I love Mary J. Fans getting ready for hip-hop legends to take -- look at Dre -- to take center stage at Sunday's Super Bowl halftime show, including Mary J. Blige, Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg.

They say the NFL's embrace of hip-hop is long overdue. Dre is also saying that they're going to do it so big and open doors for more hip- hop artists in the future.

I want to bring in now Tre Johnson, who writes about culture. He writes about the culture. There he is. Hi, Tre. How are you doing?

TRE JOHNSON, CULTURE WRITER: Great, Don. How are you?

LEMON: I'm very excited. I'm more excited. Even though I have -- I love both teams in the Super Bowl. I love it. You know, Joe Burrow, LSU. I went to LSU. I'm more excited about the halftime show. These are legends. Lots of people are excited. It's going to be a great show, right? What does it look like to you right now alongside the NFL facing allegations of racial discrimination? Talk to me about this intersection.

[23:49:59]

JOHNSON: Yeah, I mean, it's hard to not even just think about the discrimination or not to think about it in terms of just Brian Flores, which everyone knows now about the lawsuit around his head coaching status, an opportunity there opening up a wider conversation in the league around the lack of diversity, particularly in terms of Black head coaches.

But also, you know, I'm reminded about the fact that it was only just last fall that they had to race-norming settlement case, too, where they were going to be paying out a billion dollars to Black retirees because they were using a race-based type of evaluation to decide who could get awarded money based on concussions.

It really continues to be hampered with the systematic issues that make it really hard to -- at least makes it hard for me. I can't speak for everyone else, but it makes it hard for me to enjoy something like the halftime show, putting that context to the side.

LEMON: You know, you just reminded me of the city story (ph). I totally forgot about that. We covered it very heavily. You're right, it seems to be one controversy after another.

So, let's look at it this way. You've got mostly Black players, 70 percent. Almost all Black entertainers.

JOHNSON: Yup.

LEMON: Just a couple of Black coaches and zero -- as of what? Couple of days ago, it was one, now there's two -- zero Black owners. Does that about what sum up the NFL?

JOHNSON: I think it sums up the NFL. It sums up the country. Right? And I think that's the thing about -- I am not surprised about how slow things are changing in the NFL because I look at the landscape of the country at large. And yeah, this seems to be marching at pace where we are in general.

I think what is really odd, though, is that the NFL continues to trumpet like a lot of Black performers, a lot of lack cultures to kind of like bolster the notion that they are listening and getting better. JC (ph) is a vital part of kind of like the social justice reprogramming and messaging.

There is, of course, like the slate of black performance that are going to be coming up on Sunday. And yet, still, look at what we're talking about. We're not even able to talk about the Super Bowl itself or the performance itself until we kind of like cut through all this other crap that they have going on.

LEMON: Well, listen, you're right because you can be excited about it and still be aware of hypocrisy, that you have all of these white owners and --

JOHNSON: Sure.

LEMON (on camera): -- mostly white coaches and then all Black performers, not only for the sport but also for halftime. I just want to get your take on today's NFL press conference. This is Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg. Watch.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DRE: A long time ago, as far as hip-hop, hip-hop is the biggest music, the biggest genre of music on the planet right now. So, it's crazy that it took all of this and all of this time for us to be recognized.

SNOOP DOGG, SUPER BOWL LVI HALFTIME SHOW PERFORMER: The Super Bowl is the biggest sporting event in the world. And hip-hop is the biggest form of music in the world.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yup.

DOGG: And for us to be able to have the opportunity to bring the two worlds together, we got the queen of R&B --

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yup.

DOGG: We've got the king of hip-hop.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yup.

DOGG: We've got just all (INAUDIBLE) in the place. This is what it's about. This is what hip-hop and the NFL is supposed to be about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Does this, Tre, does this open up opportunities? Is it a band-aid? Is it both?

JOHNSON: Oh, it's too early to say. I think, for me, the wider question is, who is the halftime show for nowadays?

I think the thing about the halftime show, much like the Grammys and a couple of other like establishment cultural events, if there is an entire generation of even hip-hop stars, they are just opting out of a lot of these platforms and stages because they don't hold the same time of cash and relevancy for aspects (ph) of the culture that are around nowadays (INAUDIBLE) did to much more earlier eras.

And so, will it open up the doors more? Sure. But I don't know how many people -- I think a certain type of artist who is looking for a certain type of mainstream appeal and branding.

But, you know, look, we don't need the NFL. We don't need the Grammys. We don't need the American music awards to recognize or justify or validate us. Hip-hop has been the music of the people. It has been the music in the streets for many generations now. So, it's just the NFL catching up with everybody else.

LEMON: So, you said you're not sure if they're going to take it on in their performances. But let me ask you, isn't there supposed to be a special guest, a special entertainer?

JOHNSON: Yeah, I think --

LEMON: I think I know who it is.

JOHNSON: Me, too. Are we allowed to talk about it?

LEMON: I don't know. I didn't see anything. I was just saying, if it is a special guest, it has got to be Janet. If it's not Janet, then I don't want to watch. But that's okay. Am I wrong?

JOHNSON: I heard there is going to be a hologram appearance by a hip- hop pop legend that is no longer amongst us. That is what I read and heard.

LEMON: Oh, okay.

[23:55:00]

Well, they can be that and Janet, too. Bring back Janet. Bring back Janet.

JOHNSON: Yeah, sure.

LEMON: Tre, thank you.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

LEMON: You'll be well. See you soon. Thanks a lot.

So, as I mentioned at the top of the show tonight, we have a new member of the CNN family, and we've got a photo, evidence to prove it. Anderson Cooper announcing the birth of his second son, Sebastian Luke Maisani-Cooper, entering the world, weighing in at six pounds, eight ounces.

Anderson is saying that Sebastian is happy and healthy. Look at the little picture. He joins his older brother, Wyatt (ph), who is now 22 months old. You guys have your hands full. I am very happy for you. Congratulations.

Thanks for watching. Our coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)