Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
Wright Family Got Unfair Justice; Inconsistency Seen In Courts; Russia Intends To Invade Ukraine; Russia's False Move Affects The World; Trump Brought Home Classified Documents; Erin Jackson Won Gold Medal. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired February 18, 2022 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST (on camera): Thanks for watching, everyone. DON LEMON TONIGHT starts right now. What a treat, it's Don Lemon, everyone.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: So I'm always excited to see you but don't be mad.
COATES: Gosh.
LEMON: Because --
COATES: What did you. What a preface.
LEMON: No.
COATES: I'm excited to see you but don't be mad? I have my guard up? What, Don?
LEMON: I -- there is another talented beautiful woman in my life as you. Erin Jackson who won Olympic gold the speed skater --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: The speedskater! My gosh!
LEMON: So, she is joining me on this program in just a few minutes.
COATES: She was phenomenal. I'm so glad that you are profiling and featuring her.
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: Because she didn't get enough coverage with all of obviously the things that have overshadowed the Olympics.
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: I'm so excited to hear about her. She is phenomenal. (CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I don't know if you can see this but I ran into her in the green room and she let me hold the medal. So, there is her gold medal that -- I know you're jealous. And you should be.
COATES: No, I'm actually hating, because you're a part in me, did you bite it though? You didn't bite someone's medal, did you? Can I hold it and then bite it?
LEMON: No.
COATES: I would be like, really, Don? You can't do that to someone's medal. You can't bite it.
LEMON: No, I paid a lot of money for these. These are mine. I paid buck and paper --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: You've always been natural -- what are you talking about? No, no. What you got can't be bought, Don Lemon.
LEMON: Laura, great week.
COATES: Yes, I've seen -- I've seen that engagement ring. Maybe it can. I don't know. It's beautiful.
LEMON: Did you guys hear that?
COATES: It's a beautiful ring. It is a beautiful ring. But I'm hating right now because I actually want to meet her and applaud her and bow down.
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: Because I -- when I'm on ice skates, it's a mess
LEMON: Yes. I went ice skating for the first time two years ago. I have not fallen. I just jinxed myself.
COATES: Well, you're from Louisiana. I'm from Minnesota. One of us should be horrified that you can't be.
LEMON: You should be -- you should have grown up on ice skates.
COATES: I did and I still can't do it. Solid ground and stilettos is more my style.
LEMON: I'll let you go. Roller skates. Stick with the roller skates. Good-bye.
COATES: Roller? What am I tutti? Goodbye?
LEMON: Only if I can be what's her name -- I can't think of the other one. COATES: Let's just stop. Bye.
LEMON: Blair. Blair. All right. Have a great weekend. See you later.
This is DON LEMON TONIGHT.
The President of the United States for the very first time bluntly saying that he is convinced that Vladimir Putin has now made the decision to invade Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: As of this moment I am convinced he has made the decision. We have reason to believe that.
UNKNOWN: To be clear, you are convinced that --
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: I'll take that --
UNKNOWN: You are convinced that President Putin is going to invade Ukraine, is that what you just said a few moments ago?
BIDEN: Yes, I did, yes.
UNKNOWN: So, is diplomacy off the table then?
BIDEN: No. Until he does, diplomacy is always a possibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): A U.S. defense official telling CNN nearly half of Russian forces surrounding Ukraine are in attack position. All the signs are there. All the danger of a Russian invasion. Very real.
That, as here at home, there's more bad legal news today for the former president. A federal judge ruling civil lawsuits to hold him responsible for what happened at the capitol on January 6, can go forward, and saying, and I quote here, "the president's January 6 rally speech can reasonably be viewed as a call for collective action."
The judge going on to say we used repeatedly in this context implies that the president and the rally goers would be acting together towards a common goal. that as the essence, that is the essence of a civil conspiracy. I was thinking these was a sound bite there. Pardon me.
So, the essence of a civil conspiracy that's what the judge is saying. This is a big deal. And it comes as there's news from the National Archives acknowledging that there were classified documents in the boxes of the former president took to Mar-a-Lago when he left Washington in disgrace. The archives are talking to the DOJ about this now about all of it.
And there are still records missing including deleted tweets from his personal Twitter account.
But there's outrage over what happened in a Minnesota courtroom today to tell you about. Kim Potter, the ex-police officer who mistakenly drew a gun instead of a taser and shot and killed Daunte Wright during a traffic stop, sentenced to two years in prison. Two years. Prosecutors wanted seven years and two months. And that's got a lot of people demanding to know why justice doesn't seem to count as much as tears.
The tears of Kim Potter sobbing in court as she apologized to the family of the young man who died at her hands and especially to his grieving mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM POTTER, FORMER POLICE OFFICER CONVICTED OF KILLING DAUNTE WRIGHT: To the family of Daunte Wright, I am so sorry that I brought the death of your son. Father, brother, uncle, grandson, nephew, and the rest of your family.
[22:05:00]
To your home, Katie, I understand a mother's love and I am sorry I broke your hearts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): The tears of the judge who sentenced her even referencing former President Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REGINA CHU, JUDGE, HENNEPIN COUNTY, MINNESOTA: And to those who disagree and feel a longer prison sentence is appropriate, as difficult as it may be please try to empathize with Ms. Potter's situation. As President Barack Obama once said, learning to stand in somebody else's shoes, to see through their eyes, that's how peace begins. Officer Potter made a mistake that ended tragically. She never intended to hurt anyone. Her conduct cries out for a sentence, significantly below the guidelines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): It seems the judge was swayed by the white woman's tears? Her tears over a mistake she says she regrets. Daunte Wright's mother, she is a white woman, too, and she says it seems like her tears didn't count for as much.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATIE BRYANT, DAUNTE WRIGHT'S MOTHER: This is the problem with our justice system today. White women tears trumps --
UNKNOWN: Wow.
BRYANT: -- trumps justice. And I thought, my white woman tears would be good enough. Because they're true and genuine. But when they're coerced, coached, and taught by the defense attorney, I guess we didn't have a win in this at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Meanwhile, in the courtroom in Georgia the defense rests in the federal hate crimes trial of three men convicted of murdering Ahmaud Arbery, chasing him down and shooting him to death in broad daylight while he was out jogging.
More witnesses testifying to the defendants' years' worth of disgusting, casual racism. A New York woman testifying about a conversation she had with Gregory McMichael in 2015, saying when she was mentioned, when she mentioned civil rights leader Julian Bond had died McMichaels replied and this I quote, "I wish that guy had been in the ground years ago." And went on a racist rant including this. Quote, "all these Blacks are nothing but trouble. I wish they'd all die."
So, he felt entirely comfortable saying that to really a near stranger, a woman he had been assigned to drive to the airport. that's how deep the racism runs. And then the testimony of a coast guard colleague of Travis McMichael, a white woman, who says that he called a racist slur in 2011 for dating a black man.
The witness saying, quote, "he called me an n-word lover, the prosecutor asking, can you tell us what n-word you are referring to," the witness replied quoting the actual slur. We've got a lot more to come on this tonight.
Yes, it is tough to go through that and read that. It's disgusting. Exhausting.
So, I want to get right to the sentencing now though, of ex-officer Kim Potter who was convicted of manslaughter in the shooting death of Daunte Wright during a traffic stop. Antonio Romanucci is here, he's an attorney for Daunte Wright's family and joins me now. Antonio, thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.
ANTONIO ROMANUCCI, ATTORNEY FOR DAUNTE WRIGHT'S FAMILY: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Although Daunte's family is thankful for this guilty verdict, this sentence is nowhere near what they were hoping for. How are they doing tonight?
ROMANUCCI: Well, the question is, I mean, I don't know how they recover from this. I mean, they are deeply disappointed, they are exasperated by this, Don. You know, they were looking for justice. Yes, they got the conviction. The conviction was there. But there are two ends to this.
And the fact that there was only two years when the maximum could have been 15. The guidelines were 86 months. A little bit over seven years. And to see a downward deviation, an extreme deviation by 3 to 400 percent, they left that courtroom just devastated and disappointed.
LEMON: Keith Ellison, the attorney general of Minnesota initially had asked the judge for a stiffer sentence but here is what he just told Laura Coates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:09:57]
KEITH ELLISON, ATTORNEY GENERAL, MINNESOTA: It is important to remember that we did earn a conviction. Years ago, officers weren't held accountable for these kinds of things. Nobody would have been charged at all.
Now this kind of -- in these cases that, you know, there is equal justice for everyone who does this conduct and you know, two years is a substantial sentence. It is not what we asked for but it's not a slap on the wrist. It is a substantial amount of time. And she will never be a police officer, never able to own a firearm. She will always carry the stigma of being a convicted felon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Response to that, Antonio.
ROMANUCCI: Well, first of all, Keith Ellison is a hero to the state of Minnesota because he has really brought the state to a new level in terms of prosecuting police officers for ones that commit needless crimes such as the one that happened here.
The fact that there was a conviction is some solace but you've got to shift the focus here from Kim Potter on to the Daunte Wright family. And you see Judge Chu kept the focus on Kimberly Potter today, how it was tragic, how it wasn't intentional, about her background, about her future, about the fact that jail won't deter.
But what about the Wright family, what about Daunte who was a young man with a promising future? What about him? And that's where I think we get lost because the focus gets put on Potter. Now of course, it's her being sentenced but she is the one who pulled the trigger on the gun who ended a young, valuable life.
LEMON: Speaking of the judge. And the judge was very emotional, she appeared to get choked up while delivering Kim Potter's sentence. She even urged people to empathize with the ex-cop. Daunte's mom talked about that. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRYANT: Today the justice system murdered him all over again. (Inaudible) pouring my heart out in the (Inaudible) that took so long to write and I reread it over and over again to not get a response out of the judge. But when it came down to convict or to sentencing Kim Potter, she broke out in tears. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): I'm not sure you were able to hear. Were you able to hear what she was saying?
ROMANUCCI: I was able to hear enough and I certainly have a response to that if that's what you are looking for --
LEMON: Yes.
ROMANUCCI: -- because I would like to respond to that.
LEMON: Yes.
ROMANUCCI: You know, I think what happened was Judge Chu was in tears over putting -- at putting Kim Potter in jail because I don't think -- I don't think that Judge Chu wanted to put, wanted to put Kim Potter in jail at all.
I was -- I was nearly falling out of my chair listening to Judge Chu and what she was saying about Kim Potter. I really thought she was going to sentence her to probation. that's what I thought -- that's where I thought this was going. And then it was like, well, let's give her two years because she needs some time. I don't think she wanted to sentence her to any time at all, let alone two years.
LEMON: Is -- is there some sort of reform that is needed for judges or for the court system because a lot of people are outraged by this and have been by what happens with these cases but also with judges and the power that they have, the discretion that they have.
ROMANUCCI: Look, Don. I'm an attorney. I've been a lawyer for many, many years. I have so much respect for the judiciary. I have respect for judicial discretion. I know what a difficult job judges have to do. But when you look at a sort of deviation that is away from 300, 400 percent, right? I mean, then all we're asking for is consistency.
Minnesota had another conviction of another officer just last year of second-degree manslaughter for what, almost three times the sentence that Potter got? Of course, we know what Chauvin got but that was a murder. But there seems to be no consistency and we accept the -- we accept the sentence, yes. We have to take Keith Ellison's words. We accept the sentence. We do not have to agree with it but certainly, I think there needs to be a lot more consistency with the way people are sentenced.
LEMON: You mentioned Derek Chauvin. I mean, the judge said this case was different, far more different from manslaughter cases, as well as other high profile police killings. She referenced the killing of George Floyd saying it was nothing like that but for the Wright family, for the Wright family, they have lost a son. Still lost a son.
ROMANUCCI: There is no difference to the Wright family at all. They loved their son. They miss their son. And he was -- he was cherished. I mean, I don't know how else to say it.
[22:15:01]
He was -- he was their boy, he was their buddy, he was their son, their friend. And it really makes no difference. He's gone. And that's because Kimberly Potter, you know, we have -- people say, well, she was on the force for 26 years. that's a mitigating circumstance.
Well, I look at it as she was on the force 26 years. Why didn't she know better? It's not that she wasn't trained. She was trained all right. It's how was she trained? What was the manner of her training that continued throughout her 26 years? Why didn't she know that that was a gun versus a taser? Why didn't she know that her index finger was on -- was on the trigger of a gun that was pointed at someone as opposed to a yellow taser?
And to the Wright family none of that makes a difference because Daunte is gone. He is dead.
LEMON: Anthony, thank you. Our regards to the family. I appreciate you joining me.
ROMANUCCI: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you.
ROMANUCCI: Good night.
LEMON: Good night. Nearly three million people in a capital city could be in Vladimir Putin's sites. New evidence tonight of Russia building up its military equipment close to Ukraine's border.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: We have reason to believe the Russian forces are planning to and intend to attack Ukraine in the coming week, the coming days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): President Joe Biden declaring tonight he is convinced Vladimir Putin has made up his mind to invade Ukraine. that as U.S. officials reveal about half of Russian forces surrounding Ukraine are now in an attack position.
I want to bring in now retired major general James Spider Marks, he is a CNN military analyst and head of geopolitical strategy at Academy Securities.
We're so happy to have you on, major general. I appreciate it.
JAMES 'SPIDER' MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: So, President Biden says he is convinced Putin has decided to attack and will target Kyiv. We are talking about a free capital of a sovereign nation with about three million people and potentially massive casualties. How do you see all of this playing out?
MARKS: I don't see that playing out, frankly. Certainly, the capability exists but there are more downsides and certainly increasing risks for Putin were he to try to go across the Belarusian border into Ukraine and try to isolate Kyiv and take Kyiv.
That's an extremely large task. He does not have sufficient forces deployed to take Kyiv, hold on to Kyiv and then if he intends to occupy and control all of Ukraine, he's got 190,000 troops there. It would take close to 800,000 to occupy and control Ukraine.
And the other thing to keep in mind he would cause an incredible amount of rubble if he were to go into Kyiv and that's not something he can afford. I mean, he is going to own it if he breaks it but can't afford to fix it and he can't afford to start instigating this insurgency which will inevitably occur.
LEMON: I want to put up there is a new satellite image that shows Russia, Russia is building up their military equipment within miles of Ukraine's border.
MARKS: Right.
LEMON: And U.S. officials tell CNN about 50 percent of Russian forces are now in attack positions. What does this tell you about how soon they can invade?
MARKS: Well, Don, they could invade any time now. I mean, look at your watch. They can invade in five minutes. The forces are there. The capabilities are there. The long-range strike capabilities were this to be a full-fledged invasion are in position to start an operation right now.
Those forces in the Donbas region, which I think is the imagery we showed is, you know, bear in mind, Russians have been in the Donbas for over eight years now, and so those -- those lines of communication, that road network, the rail head that is necessary to move those tanks in, they've just now, the Russians have just now bolstered their extant presence in the Donbas which means they can now execute operations from within Ukrainian soil without firing a shot and actually invading. They've already invaded.
I mean, they've done this in rather an administrative movement way, which is quite elegant, it's quite amazing to me that they have been able to do that. But we saw something like that in Crimea with different circumstances but Putin has been laying this down and preparing for this invertibility. that's why I think it is inevitable there will be some form of invasion.
LEMON: Well, Russia, General Marks, has more than 10 times the military budget of Ukraine. They also completely dominate the Ukrainians in active troops, combat, aircraft, tanks, aircraft, the list goes on. So how is Ukraine going to fight back?
MARKS: Yes, that's the -- that's the question. Certainly, there is a lot of pride and there's a lot of capability in Ukraine. Let's be frank. It is not going to be a fair fight. Russia will dominate in a close combat environment. They have combined arms, they have excessive amounts of artillery and rockets, they have tanks, they have been training. They know how to do this.
So, the Ukrainians are going to be outmatched. What Putin, I think, Putin is not concerned about that. He'll win that fight. The problem is once you break it you got to own it. So, you might -- you might win the fight but you're not going to win the peace. that he will unleash an insurgency he does not want to have to deal with.
The cost will exceed his ability to try to achieve his desired end state. He is looking for influence. He doesn't want to crush Ukraine. He doesn't want to, you know, just completely rubble the place. He is looking for Ukraine to be in his pocket. He wants a vassal state not unlike Belarus.
And so, he is looking to establish a greater presence and over the course of time atrophy the legitimacy of the government in Kyiv, and then start working the political side and get folks in that he knows will side with him. It's a longer-term view but I think it's one he -- that's the path that he wants to take.
LEMON: I want you to listen to a bit more of what the president had to say about the situation in Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:25:02]
BIDEN: The United States and our allies are prepared to defend every inch of NATO territory from any threat to our collective security as well. We also will not send troops in to fight in Ukraine. But we will continue to support the Ukrainian people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): No one knows better than you. War is unpredictable. Things can go south very quickly. Can go wrong very quickly. What happens for, for instance, if Ukrainians flee over the border into a NATO country and are pursued by Russian forces. Do you worry the U.S. could get drawn into this conflict?
MARKS: that's a great question. Look, there will be a -- there will be a humanitarian disaster if Russia chooses, if Putin chooses to make a large invasion into Ukraine and goes directly in the -- in the direction of Kyiv. There will be a humanitarian disaster, there will be displaced persons, and of course, Russian forces may pursue those.
The last thing America wants and I would argue the last thing Russia wants is for American soldiers and Russian soldiers to get into a gun fight. We've never had one of those, never. Never did it against the Soviets have not against the Russians. And is this the time and place where we're going to do that? I don't know. I would hope it's not.
I would hope it would happen. In fact, it might even be logical to think that if there are displaced persons and they are moving in the direction of western Europe to get out of Ukraine I'm not certain the Russians would try to stop them. And if there was a requirement for a noncombatant evacuation operation even though we've emptied out our embassy, we have tons of American citizens in Ukraine, and if they became identified and we could locate them and the United States has the obligation to go get those folks, I bet you even Putin would get out of the way and possibly even facilitate that so that he would move that problem out of the way.
His fight is not with America. His fight is with trying to fracture NATO and he is trying to recreate a buffer zone he lost when the Soviet Union collapsed. And that's very, very troubling for him. that is the strategic motivation that brought him to this point, brought all of us to this point.
LEMON: They, we got -- just quickly before you go, so do you think that it is imminent? I know you answered in the beginning. Do you think it is imminent, as the president said, an invasion?
MARKS: Yes, I do. A couple of things in place. Look at what happened in Donbas, look at what happened in Crimea in terms of force build up. The objective would be to increase his presence there. Have some sham elections and all of a sudden, everybody is happy, right? Because the Russians are in charge.
And Putin is also going to be with Lukashenko from Belarus, up in Belarus over the weekend observing training. So, the whole world is going to be watching him up there. You know, look at, every media platform is going to be focused in on Putin.
What happens at the same time all these folks in Donbas start, you know, all these Russian troops start rising up and start establishing their presence where they are currently but they will now expand their presence? that's what I see happening. Short answer, imminent, yes.
LEMON: Thank you, General Marks. I appreciate it.
MARKS: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: The former president can be sued. A judge ruling, he doesn't have immunity for what went down on January 6th. And lawsuits naming him can go forward. Stay with us.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): The National Archives confirming there were classified materials in the 15 boxes retrieved from Mar-a-Lago earlier this month. The archives also telling the House oversight committee the Trump White House did not properly store social media records, meaning they didn't keep records of scores of deleted tweets.
So joining me now to discuss CNN's senior political analyst and political chief Washington correspondent, Ryan Lizza, and CNN's senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig.
Gentlemen, good evening. Good to see both of you.
Elie, I'm going to start with you. This federal judge ruling Trump can be sued in civil court for his statements to supporters at the rally before the insurrection. Calling those statements, the essence of civil conspiracy. that can reasonably be viewed as a call to action and said, this is a big deal for Trump. What are the implications?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It is, Don. So, in the narrow sense it keeps Donald Trump in this lawsuit. It means Donald Trump is in a position where he is going to be subject to discovery and possibly to deposition under oath. And interestingly, this judge actually did throw out the charges or the suit that's been filed against Rudy Giuliani, against Donald Trump Jr.
So, the judge seemed to draw a distinction and said, what the former president did was different and worse than what even some other wrongdoers did. Bigger picture, Don, the message that the judge is sending here is what did president -- the former president did was as you said, a call to action and he is not immune from civil lawsuit for anything that he did as the former president. that's a big legal principle.
LEMON: So, we now know, Elie, that Trump was keeping classified documents at his resort and the National Archives says they are consulting DOJ. Does this open up a new avenue of legal issues for the former president? Can this go beyond just this?
[22:35:00]
HONIG: It really should if DOJ is doing its job. I mean, at an absolute minimum, this requires the Justice Department to do an investigation. It's a federal crime to destroy or remove classified documents if it is done knowingly and intentionally.
If these documents are marked as classified according to the reporting, according to the archives, then anyone who saw them would know they were classified. And hence you have a potential crime. So, the Justice Department needs to take a serious look here.
And I need to make this point. This isn't just some sort of arcane record keeping procedure. This is meant to guard documents that according to the federal law if they were disclosed could pose a grave threat to our national security. So this is not just some sort of record keeping matter. This is serious business.
LEMON: Ryan, I've to ask you about this. You have this remarkable new interview with the former judge, J. Michael Luttig, a highly respected conservative and former federal judge played a key role in persuading then Vice President Mike Pence that he could not overturn the election. He described the incredible turn of events that began with a call from Pence's outside counsel asking to help the vice president. I want you to listen to this.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
JOHN MICHAEL LUTTIG, FORMER FEDERAL JUDGE: He is talking with Marc Short and the vice president. And he says, we need to do something publicly, get your voice out to the country.
RYAN LIZZA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You are in a position here where the vice president is pressured by the president of the United States to overturn the results of the election. And you are the sort of go-to legal mind who is respected among Republicans that the vice president is looking to, to essentially stop a coup. Do I, I mean, do I have that right?
LUTTIG: I understood the gravity of the moment and the momentous task that I was being asked to help the vice president with. I had been following --
LIZZA: Yes.
LUTTIG: -- all of this, you know, just very closely in the days leading up to it. It was then and may forever be one of the most significant moments in American history.
LIZZA: The vice president cited your legal analysis on January 6th in his famous letter explaining what his responsibilities and authorities were that day.
LUTTIG: Yes. that -- that might be the greatest honor of my life.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): You know, it is remarkable. What more did you learn about the impact Luttig had on Pence?
LIZZA: Well, it was really a remarkable interview, Don. And just capturing this former federal judge who, I interviewed him for three hours and at the end of it he said, you know, he claimed this is the only interview he's ever done like that and he's never doing another one.
So, it was just a moment where this insider who had access to a lot of the key legal figures in the Trump administration for all four years including his very good friend Bill Barr was ready to talk and was ready to explain his criticisms of Trump and his very, very unusual role on January 6th that had never been explained before.
There is some comedy in what happens. You know, Pence world was desperately trying to have Luttig or a conservative god -- on the right Luttig is conservative royalty, right? He was the person, he was the runner-up to the John Roberts seat. He is the guy the right wingers in the White House in 2005 wanted instead of John Roberts. Cheney wanted him. And Bush picked Roberts.
So, he is beloved in the conservative movement. So he -- and Pence and his advisers who knew Luttig very well, they understood the credibility he would bring if he went out there and said Donald Trump and John Eastman, who by the way is Luttig's former law clerk.
John Eastman is the person who came up with the idea of overturning the election through the Electoral Count Act. And so, Pence world knew that if they could get Luttig to get public saying, Eastman's idea is nuts. The only thing that Pence can do on January 6 is play this ministerial role of counting the votes. They knew that would give Pence the credibility to buck what Trump wanted him to do.
The only problem is, they were scrambling at the last minute to get Luttig's voice out there and didn't know how to do it and Luttig basically said, you know what, I just signed up for Twitter. What if I tweet it? So almost Luttig had a tweet. So, he called his son who works in Silicon Valley and had to literally ask him how to use Twitter so he could make this argument that Pence could then use in his letter.
[22:40:03]
His son like a lot of kids said, dad, I'm very busy. I'll do this another time. And Luttig told me that he told his son, if you don't tell me how to use Twitter right now I am cutting you out of the will. So, this is sort of Kohn (Ph) brothers like quality to this very, very serious moment in American history.
LEMON: And now Luttig is the most prolific tweeter of all time.
LIZZA: Absolutely.
LEMON: Ryan, I've got to run. I've got to -- I'm running out of runway here. But thank you so much. I appreciate both of you joining us.
LIZZA: Thanks for having me on, Don. I appreciate it.
LEMON: Thank you.
LIZZA: Thanks, guys.
LEMON: She won gold and she is the first Black woman to do it in her sport. Olympic speedskater Erin Jackson is here. There she is. And she is next.
ERIN JACKSON, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST IN SPEED SKATING: Hello. Hey.
LEMON: Hey.
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): Erin Jackson the first Black woman to win Olympic gold in speedskating, and as if that is not enough, she is also the first in the America to win a speed skating gold at the Olympics since 1994. And here she is with me now. Erin Jackson, Olympic gold medalist. How are you?
JACKSON: Yes. I'm great.
LEMON: It's good to see you. Congratulations. This is a huge, huge deal. What does this win mean for you just in general but also as a Black woman? JACKSON: Yes, I mean, it means a lot. It just shows like, I don't
know, a lot of hard work and time and it's like, it's still hard to put into words. And then yes, as far as being like a Black woman in the sport it's just I hope to be a good example and yes, hopefully seeing more people following along.
LEMON: We were joking earlier. I saw her a little bit earlier and I said, how do you feel? This is amazing. Not a big deal.
JACKSON: Yes, whatever.
LEMON: But you were joking. Yes, whatever. What did you say?
JACKSON: Yes, something like that. Joking of course.
LEMON: So, listen, take me through the race. Take me through the race. What was going through your head when you were competing? What was it like to compete at the Olympic level here?
JACKSON: Yes. I mean, I feel like a couple days before the race I was getting really excited, I was really pumped. Couldn't really sleep that well. But then as it got closer to the race like I, I don't know, I just got really calm really, I felt really ready so, yes. When I got to the line, I was like, I think I can do this. I just need a clean race. And then, yes, during the race just go on automatic.
LEMON: You're like on auto pilot.
JACKSON: Pretty much.
LEMON: Do you remember there was -- does it seem like it's taking forever or was it like a flash?
JACKSON: Just a blur basically.
LEMON: Just a blur.
JACKSON: Yes.
LEMON: And you're just home.
JACKSON: Yes.
LEMON: So, I want everybody to check out this clip. This is a clip that you posted hitting the ice for the first time ever, right? This was in 2016. It only took six years from then to win Olympic gold. I mean, what did it take to get you here?
JACKSON: A lot of really great coaching. Yes, really awesome teammates. Yes. Just a lot of time. Like putting in a lot of time.
JACKSON: So, there is a chance for me. Because I -- the first time on ice skates I think was two winters ago for me.
JACKSON: OK.
LEMON: And I haven't really fallen -- I don't think I fell yet. But it's a -- so is there a chance? Do I have a chance?
JACKSON: Of course. Yes. I feel like I got kind of a late start, well, it's like I have to make up for a lost time, right? So, I just went to a whole bunch of ice sessions. I spent a lot of time on the ice.
LEMON: You said in interviews before it just shows that it's is never too late.
JACKSON: Yes.
LEMON: You truly believe that, right?
JACKSON: Yes. I believe that. Yes.
LEMON: You are the shining example of that, 2016 and then you're winning Olympic gold. Can I ask you about your teammate, it's Brittany Bowe.
JACKSON: Yes.
LEMON: Your spot in the Olympics was in jeopardy and after you finished third in trials and then Bowe won those trials.
JACKSON: Yes.
LEMON: But she gave up her spot to make sure that you were able to skate in Beijing. What does that mean to you?
JACKSON: Yes. It means -- it means so much. I mean, I have looked up to Brittany ever since I was a little kid. Like, everyone knows that she is an amazing athlete and now they can see she is an amazing person. So really selfless. And it's just hard to imagine someone making like that sort of sacrifice for you. So, I'm really grateful.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: that's what we call teammate. that is, right.
JACKSON: Yes. For sure.
LEMON: That's amazing. Bowe still got to compete by the way, she won a bronze in the 1,000-meter. What is it like to be in the Olympics with her? I'm sure you were cheering her on.
JACKSON: Yes. Cheering her on really loud. Yes. It's just, it's cool to have like, you know, another layer of family. Because I consider the whole team my family of course, but then, you know, having someone from the same hometown growing up at the same time it's really cool.
LEMON: You know, there's been a lot of heaviness around the Olympics that happened with the geopolitical tensions that are going on, the pandemic happening, and then you have the controversy with the figure skater, and what have you. Did you get a chance even with all of that, do you think it was a full Olympic experience for you and for other athletes? JACKSON: Yes, for sure. I mean, I still had a great time. I wouldn't
say it wasn't like none of that was going on, but I mean, I was just focused on my racing and you know, having a good time enjoying the experience with my teammates. And yes, it was great.
LEMON: So, you got, it was a blur. The race was a blur. You were focused. But then afterwards did you, I mean, did you ever have a chance to like go outside and enjoy the venue and beyond that?
JACKSON: Yes. Yes. I actually got to see a couple of hockey games while I was there.
LEMON: Wow.
JACKSON: that was pretty cool. Yes, it was nice.
LEMON: What is next for Olympic gold medalist Erin Jackson?
JACKSON: Yes, my season is not quite over yet. I head to Europe in about a week to rejoin the team and we have two more races in the season and then a little relaxation until the next Olympic cycle.
LEMON: Can you hold that medal up? Can you show that?
JACKSON: Yes.
LEMON: Can you guys -- look at that. She, earlier she let me hold it. that is amazing. Erin, congratulations to you.
JACKSON: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you for appearing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. How is your family? Are they like, just --
[22:50:03]
JACKSON: Yes. Yes. My dad is super quiet so, yes. They had him on the screen after my race and it's like they were kind of waiting for him to get excited. I'm like this is his excitement.
LEMON: that's my dad, excited.
JACKSON: Yes, he's a quiet guy.
LEMON: Wow. For you and your dad and everybody. We're so proud of you. Thank you.
JACKSON: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you. We'll be right back, everyone.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): This President's Day weekend CNN is premiering a new original series focused on the life and presidency of Lyndon Baines Johnson. He's the president who passed the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. But his decision to escalate the war in Vietnam overshadowed his legacy.
[22:55:00]
See how it all played out. LBJ. Triumph and Tragedy. It premieres Sunday at 9 p.m. right here on CNN. Here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: LBJ was intensely aware that he came into the office under the cloak of tragedy.
It drove him to try to do things no one else had ever achieved.
UNKNOWN: He said to his aides what the hell a presidency for? If you're not going to do something bold, why be here?
UNKNOWN: I think Lyndon Johnson would be seen today as one of our greatest presidents because of all that he did, but he made one bad mistake.
UNKNOWN: Vietnam really pulled him apart. He couldn't make a win out of this no matter how hard he tried.
UNKNOWN: LBJ said, I wish they knew that I want peace as much as they do.
UNKNOWN: It's important to reflect and look back and see what has been done because there's no better way to judge the future but by the past.
UNKNOWN: LBJ, Triumph and Tragedy, premieres Sunday night at 9 on CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): And up next, crime and justice in the United States, excessive force, a surge in crime, a backlash to reforms. The country grappling with all of it. We're going to talk about it right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
