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Don Lemon Tonight

Russia Declared War Against Putin; President Zelensky Is Russia's Main Target; U.S. Slaps Russia With Harsh Sanctions; Ukrainian Males 18 To 60 Years Banned From Leaving; Residential Areas In Ukraine Bombarded; Russian Troops Hostage Chernobyl Staff; Ukrainian Sukhoi 27 Aircraft Gunned Down; Dark Picture In Ukraine Seen By U.S; Refugees Flock To Safety. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired February 24, 2022 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST (on camera): Thank you very much. I'll see you tomorrow night.

This is DON LEMON TONIGHT.

Our breaking news. Russia waging war on Ukraine. Twenty-four hours ago, the war broke out while we were on the air. Now, the second largest country in Europe, after Russia itself, is a war zone. Kyiv under curfew tonight.

CNN teams they're reporting hearing heavy explosions just a few minutes ago. President Volodymyr Zelensky saying Russian sabotage groups have entered the city. And this is chilling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): According to our information, the enemy has marked as target number one. My family is target number two. They want to destroy Ukraine politically by destroying the head of state. We have information that enemy sabotage groups have entered Kyiv.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): And that is happening as the White House is condemning Russia over what they call credible reports civilian staff at Chernobyl in northern Ukraine have been taken hostage. The White House demanding their immediate release. Some 137 Ukrainian soldiers killed, 316 wounded in just the first day of war.

Ukraine tonight, ordering a general military mobilization and banning men 18 to 60 years old from leaving the country. President Joe Biden calling up Vladimir Putin for starting a war, the largest in Europe since World War II. And slapping new punishing sanctions on banks and oligarchs and their families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Putin is the aggressor. Putin chose this war. And now, he and his country will bear the consequences. Today, I'm authorizing the additional strong sanctions and new limitations on what can be exported to Russia. This is going to impose severe costs on the Russian economy, both immediately and overtime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): But the president wouldn't say why he's not personally sanctioning Putin, so far. But he has a message for the American people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: This aggression cannot go unanswered. If it did, the consequences for America would be much worse. America stands up to bullies. We stand up for freedom. This is who we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Right now, the worldwide resources of CNN on this story. CNN's Sam Kiley in Kharkiv, Ukraine, Matthew Chance in Kyiv, Jill Dougherty in Moscow, Kaitlan Collins at the White House, Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon for us.

Good evening to all of you. Matthew, what's happening there tonight? You've had some new explosions, I hear.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, within the past few minutes, in fact. Don, there's been a couple of explosions. Pretty powerful ones. Difficult to say how far from here they were. But we can certainly hear them very, very loudly from our position here in central Kyiv.

I've been contacted by the Ukrainian interior ministry. And they are saying that Russians have started missile strikes on residential quarters of Kyiv. That's what the Ukrainian deputy defense minister is telling me tonight, you know, shortly after those two missile strikes took place.

I've been given some video as well. One of them, I've spoken to officials about this, saying that one of the missiles were shot out of the sky by Ukrainian anti-missile defense systems. Now, that's what they say in the video of an explosion mid-air, with the debris falling to earth.

The other one of the missiles apparently struck what is being described as a residential building in Kyiv. Obviously, we're trying to get verification on that. But it all comes of course as the city braces itself for what will be the next stage of this Russian operation. This Russian invasion of the country.

We've been witnessing -- coming into contact with Russian special forces that have been deployed on the outskirts of the city. In preparation, we think to bring in even more so for forces. The concern in the Ukraine capital tonight, amongst the normal residents and among officials as well, is that Russia intends to encircle the city. It intends to the decapitate the leadership of the country and install a pro-Moscow regime here.

Already, President Zelensky has posted on social media in a video as we just saw that he sees himself as the number one target. He believes that's how the enemy see him. His family is the number to target. So, it is a very ominous development indeed.

LEMON (on camera): Matthew, what do we know about reports of hostages at Chernobyl?

CHANCE: Yes, I mean, that's interesting, isn't it? Because the whole idea that Chernobyl, the site of the world's worst nuclear to catastrophe back in 1986, is now under Russian control, is in itself quite worrying. Quite extraordinary. The fact that there's military operations taking place in that heavily contaminated region is worrying.

[22:04:59]

But then there's additional development as well. It seems that the technical staff, the people who look after the reactor that exploded back in 1986 and the take care of the sort of the concrete sarcophagus that's over the top of it to make sure no more radiation leaks out. They've all been kept in place as well. And they're being described by Ukrainian officials as hostages.

Obviously, the Russians wanted to keep the technical staff there, clearly, to make sure that an ecological disaster do not take place in that location once again once they've taken over. But yes, again, more signs that Russia is, you know, encroaching on the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of this country from every direction.

LEMON (on camera): Sam Kiley, let's bring you in now. President Zelensky says that 137 Ukrainian soldiers have already been killed. And tonight, Zelensky has -- is calling up Ukrainian males 18 to 60 to fight. Banning them from leaving the country. Are they prepared to do that?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think they are, Don. I think that a large number of people that we've spoken to, and I've been here for more than a month now here in Ukraine, including here in Kyiv and in Kharkiv, the second largest city, there are significant numbers of people who have been training with small arms. Not just men, but women, too. Young women, old women, young men, older men.

Clearly, this national mobilization is a warning off order to people to pick up arms. But it also earlier on the president also issued a plea yesterday when he said that he wanted to see ordinary civilians report for duty. They would be given weapons and to be taken out and to take the enemy on.

This is rapidly been falling away from his control. Particularly, as Matthew has been reporting there with that concentration of the Russian firepower on the capital Kyiv. Here in Kharkiv, there's also deep concerns that a significant number of tanks are amassing just inside the border. The border is only 20 miles away. About 25 minutes drive. A bit longer for a tank.

Very large numbers of tanks were seeing crossing from Russia into Ukraine, just north of where I'm standing. There are reports that the town of Sumy has been the scene of very heavy fighting may now have fall into the Russians. That is a border town, about 100 kilometers from here, about 60 miles.

And at the same time, the authorities here have blown two bridges to the east to try to slow down any effort to have a tinsel movement of tanks brought to bear against this city that has the advantage perhaps of being encircled by roads. There's got a ring road around it but that may be used to laces to it. It's a million and a half people. They would need a lot of soldiers to take it over completely.

LEMON: Well, let's talk about also the residents there. Kharkiv is Ukraine's second largest city, as you said. We saw residents seeking shelter in subway stations. Clarissa ward spoke to one family. Listen to this, Sam.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What will you do now? Will you stay here tonight?

UNKNOWN: Yes. I think, yes. Yes.

WARD: Do you have food? Do you have everything you need? This is what you have.

UNKNOWN: Yes. And water. That's all.

WARD: You seem remarkably strong given how scary the situation is.

UNKNOWN: We -- we try to be brave because we have children. And we don't want to show them that we are scared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): This is a big city and now under siege. That's a lot of folks, Sam.

KILEY: It is an awful lot of people. At least 100 and -- 1.5 million. Seventy-five percent of them speak Russian as a mother tongue at least. This is not though a place that a supportive at all of Vladimir Putin's agenda here. His stated agenda is to try to help protect those eastern enclaves, whose independence he recognized just a few days ago.

But simultaneously announce that he recognized their sovereignty -- their sovereignty over a large chunk of territory that is undoubtedly the Ukrainian governments land. Now, that becomes academic now that we've got major cities like Kyiv, the capital. Kharkiv, the center of the intellectual and a lot of technological life of the whole country now threatened within its imminent invasion.

As we go from this face, which is clearly the Russian playbook is to knock out communicate nations, airfields, air defenses and to use multiple rocket launching systems to try to soften the ground in advance of a tank invasion.

[22:09:59]

The second phase is the one that really is going to be most problematic for civilian populations here. Because that's going to involve ground troops, and they could well be an increased level of resistance of Ukrainian armed forces. This is the moment where they really may show their metal, Don.

LEMON: Yes. And as we say, this is all happening in a moment. This is war. I want to get back to Matthew. Matthew, take a look at this video of that an explosion. We'll listen -- we'll watch and then discuss. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, Matthew, that is the latest. I'm not sure if it was an onslaught, if it was one, but it is happening sporadically. How often are you witnessing this or hearing it in the area?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that was the first incident tonight that we've witnessed. But obviously, 24 hours ago there was a lot of strikes and cruise missiles taking place. I thought what was really interesting about that video, and it's the video that was sent, I think part that was sent to me by the Ukrainian interior ministry just a short time ago.

They say it is a missile that was shot out of the sky by anti-missile defense systems from Ukraine. I wasn't aware, it might be my ignorance, I wasn't aware that Ukraine had anti-missile defense systems capable of shooting missiles out of the sky. That sophisticated air defense is right there.

But I heard the Russian voice. And my Russian isn't great, but I heard the Russian voice as that object exploded into little pieces and fell to earth, say the word samolet which means, airplane. It means airplane in Russian. So, it is some kind of, it is some kind of aerial vehicle, some kind of drone, or whether it was indeed a missile, is unclear, it's unclear to me.

LEMON: Yes. Well, let's bring in Jill Dougherty. Jill, I want to ask you, you have been covering Russia for decades, were you aware -- or this region for decades, were you aware of anti- missile defense system on behalf of Ukraine?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CONTRIBUTOR: No, but I'm not a military expert, but, you know, it depends on what we're talking about in terms of, you know, what kind of protection they would have. But I actually do not know the answer to that.

LEMON: Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Anti-missile defense systems? No, I'm not aware that Ukraine has anti-missile defense systems. We know that the U.S. and other countries in Europe have provided javelin anti-aircraft missiles. Whether one of those can take out a missile, I don't know.

LEMON: It's true.

LIEBERMANN: As Matthew pointed out, shooting a missile out of the sky is incredibly difficult, and I've seen it done countless times by Iron Dome. Only Israel has Iron Dome and the U.S.

LEMON: Yes. Yes, I want to bring in General Hertling now. General, we are going to bring you a little bit later. Let's bring you in now. Look, this is all happening. Matthew is hearing this --

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes.

LEMON: -- and has not been confirmed. But what do you think this was? He said it was at least some form of military equipment knocking a missile out of the sky. What do you make of that?

HERTLING: Yes, I'm not going to conject on this, Don. You know, I'm not military analyst or intelligence analyst. But that looks like an aircraft. It looks like a very large aircraft. The Ukrainian forces do have stinger missiles. The Javelins or the anti-tank missiles, the stingers or the aircraft missiles. They have a range of about 3,500 meters.

That aircraft look like it was flying under the -- under the cloud cover. So, if it was an aircraft, perhaps it was a missile, it's tough to knock down a missile with a stinger. But all this is conjecture. That looks an awful lot like a large aircraft, like a transport plane or possibly even a bomber. But it is flying very low. If it was an aircraft, it could be carrying either bombs or airborne soldiers. If it was a missile, it was a very lucky shot.

LEMON: Yes. So, let's pull back on that. We don't know what is. We're hearing what Matthew is being told, and until we get confirmation then we can speak on it. But you're exactly right, let's not -- the conjecture, let's not try to surmise what's happening here until we get confirmation. So, standby, General Hertling.

I want to bring in Kaitlan Collins at the White House. Kaitlan, the President of the United State, Joe Biden made clear Putin is the aggressor in this unjustified and unprovoked war against Ukraine. He hit Russia with additional sanctions, but so far has not directly sanctioned Vladimir Putin, himself. You ask the president if that is still on the table. What did he say?

[22:14:56]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He said it's still on the table, but I do think it's notable that given Putin has taken the steps that they said that they would deploy all the sanctions that they had over as they did today once he took that step of invading Ukraine and attacking Ukraine, as Russia is doing right now.

This isn't something that ended up making the final cut. And so, you look at the sanctions that they have talked about, the package that they put together over the last several weeks with allies like talking about what this is going to look like if Russia did actually take this step, which, as we know, President Biden predicted President Putin was going to do.

This isn't something that he included, even though he did say it's still on the table. It is something that they would consider, as well as the swift financial system cutting Russia off from that he said is also on the table. Though, of course, we should note, you know, that doesn't seem like something realistic, it's something that has to be done in coordination with European allies to actually do that.

But the other steps that President Biden did take today when it comes to imposing the sanctions, when it comes to restricting Russian financial systems, tying up some equity and debt when it comes to those technology exports that they are hoping could stunt military growth for Russia.

Those are the steps that they believe are going to be the most effective for this time. And basically, have the maximum effect against Russia while having minimizing any kind of effect that they would have on European allies. That has kind of been the balance that they have been trying to strike here, Don.

And so, the question of how long those take to go into effect, though the president was pretty blunt about today. He said that it is going to take a while, he believes before they can really weaken the Kremlin. And that is really going to be the goal of this.

And so, when you look at what's happening on the ground in Ukraine, you see the concerns that people have as the secretary of state is making clear, he believes Putin is going after the capitol, he wants to install a pro-Russian government there and overthrow President Zelensky and his government.

I think you have to look at the measures there. And what President Biden said today, is that he doesn't think any of these sanctions could actually prevent Putin from doing what he wanted to do. We believe that that has more to do with what we talked about with officials, which was what Putin said out here to do. That he was not viewing this through some kind of rational lens of what's the best for Russia, but viewing it to this very emotional and historical lens of what he deems is rebuilding the Soviet empire.

And I think that was one of the most chilling remarks that you heard from President Biden during that press conference today, as he said he doesn't think that Putin is going to stop with Ukraine. He thinks he has his sights on other places as well.

LEMON: Let's bring in Jill Dougherty again. Secretary of State Tony Blinken, Jill, says that that U.S. believes Moscow plans to inflict widespread human rights abuses. Essentially, worse on the Ukrainian people. What is Putin's endgame, I hear people saying, you know, there's --

(CROSSTALK)

CHANCE: Ukraine's Scotland.

LEMON: What has shocked me is that -- people can -- can we please -- Matthew Chance, we can hear Matthew --

(CROSSTALK)

CHANCE: What did he said back then?

LEMON: Thank you. Thank you very much. So, we hear people, what struck me is that people said he was emotional, he is basing his decision on emotion instead of being rational about it.

DOUGHERTY: That is one of the theories. I think, you know, there is a certain rational side to him, which is, he wants to have this zone, or this sphere of influence around Russia. And that includes these countries like Ukraine, Georgia, and others that he wants really kind of sanitize of NATO.

So, in that sense he now has decided obviously, that he will do whatever it takes in his mind to get Ukraine under control. Now the problem, you know, with the military, with the Russian military is they have gotten a lot better since the Georgian war. And they are a more disciplined group, they have better weapons. But when they start talking, as they have, about very, you know, precision weapons and we can go in and just do this and kind of cut it, and slice it very carefully. That's when I began to worry.

Because if they want to in a precision way decapitate the Ukrainian government, that's one thing. But can they actually do that without killing civilians? And without destroying, you know, half of Ukraine? I wonder, because in other places like Syria, they just randomly bomb. Sometimes they would try to do precision, but they didn't have the equipment or the skill to do so.

Again, they are better, but you know, this is -- they may just take orders to do whatever it takes. And if civilians die, then that's too bad.

LEMON: Yes. Quickly, I want to get to Oren Liebermann. Oren, all of us obviously are being guided from intelligence from our military officials. Our intelligence officials. What is the latest from the Pentagon?

LIEBERMANN: First, allow me to say thank you for General Hertling for correcting me on my mistake between javelins and stingers, as I was trying to figure anti-missile technology. But second, we've heard the word decapitated a couple of times in the first 15 minutes of the show here. That's the word we heard here at the Pentagon as well.

[22:19:56]

A senior defense official saying it was Vladimir Putin's goal to decapitate the Ukrainian government, and basically install a puppet government that is subservient to Putin himself and to the Kremlin and to Russia.

Where are they in that goal? The official said that Russian forces are closing in, or getting closer to Kyiv, but the official wouldn't be specific on how close they've gotten. Two worrying parts to this, as well. First, the Russians have not employed electronic warfare. At least not to the extent that they are able to cut off command and control and disrupt communications. And that will have its own impact.

Second, Putin has not brought the vast majority of his forces to bear on Ukraine, he has a lot, a lot left in reserve. And that's what they are looking for when does he begin to engage all of that? That of course very worrying and troubling signs for the hours and the days ahead here.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, Oren. Stand by, everyone. Thank you, everyone. Stand by. We've got much more on our breaking news tonight. Russia warding a brutal war in Ukraine. CNN's teams are on the ground throughout the region.

[22:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): We are back now with our breaking news coverage, Russia's brutal war on Ukraine began its second day. But the battle lines quickly changing, where could the fight be heading?

Joining me now to discuss, CNN military analyst, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. Genera Hertling, thank you very much. I appreciate you jumping in to help us out with another segment as well. If you have any more to add, we'll take it. But otherwise, I will ask you about a map.

I'm going to put this map up. Russia has launched more than 160 missiles. That's according to a senior U.S. official. With major population centers under attack all over the country. What's your assessment of the battlefield?

HERTLING: Well, first of all, Don, 160 missile sounds like a lot and it certainly is. They can cause a lot of damage, a lot of explosive power in each one of them. But when you're talking about a nation the size of Texas, with some major cities, with a lot of air fields, with a lot of intelligence facilities, with a lot of military training and barracks area.

You know, you start to see how those 160 don't seem like a lot. Certainly, in Desert Storm, in so-called shock and awe campaign before Iraqi freedom. There were a lot more cruise missiles sent into the city than that. Remember even when President Trump forced the Tomahawks into Syria, there were 69 missiles on one airfield target. So, I don't know. I don't know how to assess it, I'm sure there is a

lot of intelligence folks that are taking a look at what happened. We do know that the minister of defense of Ukraine has said that most of their air force got off the ground before those missiles struck the airfields. That's a good sign. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what they were saying from the Ukraine perspective.

You know, the Russians do have certainly air superiority, we have seen that all day long, today they certainly have rotary wing aircraft, helicopter aircraft superiority. But it seems like to me, the Ukrainian army on their first day is doing a pretty good job.

You know, what I would say is, you know, we can't judge what happened today and make it what will happen over the next week or so. I put out a tweet thread tonight, Don, that talked about resource -- an army's resources versus its will. And we are certainly seeing that the Ukrainian armies will could be potentially stronger than the resources brought to bear by the Russians. But time will tell on all of that.

LEMON: So, General, tonight, President Zelensky ordering a general military mobilization, calling up ordinary citizens, men from ages 18 to 60 who will fight for their country. What kind of impact can civilian soldiers like these have in a ground fight against Russians, trained soldiers?

HERTLING: That gets back to the will versus resources, Don. And I think that was a very smart move by President Zelensky. What he is saying is the nation's manpower is important to defend the soil of Ukraine. I think that's a critically important thing right now. You know, it certainly, probably came as a shock to them.

Most of the older men had probably served in the old Soviet army when they were younger, most of the younger men, who are in the reserve forces had seen action over the last eight years in the Donbas.

They have a pretty good, what I would call a National Guard in Ukraine right now, and in fact repeated service in the Donbas over the last eight years. I think it's a smart move by the president, he's pulling out all stops. And the Russian army, you know, to get to the second part of your statement, in my view, is not that good.

They certainly have the equipment, they certainly have the ability to come into a country like this, but their training and their ability to put a combined armed operations together is not as good as a lot of armies we see in the world today.

LEMON: General, I want you to stand by. So, you mentioned Matthew Chance at the video earlier that we were trying to figure out what it is.

CHANCE: Yes.

LEMON: So, we have both of you weigh in on this. Matthew is back with us. Matthew, let's run the video and then we'll discuss. Here is with what Matthew witness earlier.

HERTLING: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Matthew, so there's the video. We have new information on what it is. What do you have?

CHANCE: Yes. So, I went back to the interior ministry source that's giving me this information, a senior to the deputy minister. Basically, saying look, what this was is a Ukrainian warplane that was shot out of the sky by a Russian surface-to-air missile in the suburb of Kyiv. That took place about 40 minutes ago.

[22:30:03]

It's an SU-27, a Sukhoi 27 fighter interceptor jet that was obviously on patrol around the skies of the Ukrainian capital in search for -- to intercept any Russian sort of planes in the area. And it blew up there and you can see it scattering the debris all over that suburb of Kyiv.

There was a separate incident as well, which is where the confusion came from, I think. Which is that there's also been a Russian missile strike on a suburb of Kyiv. The interior ministry official saying it's a residential suburb, as well. There's a bit of video of that as well. I'm not sure if you have that.

And so, two separate incidents. A missile strike from Russia and a Ukrainian plane being shot out of the sky by a surface-to-air missile.

LEMON: General Hertling?

HERTLING: Yes, that's tough, Don. That's unfortunate for that Sukhoi 27. That is one of their better fighter airplanes, as I've said. You know, Ukraine said they got most of their fighter aircraft off the ground before the missile strikes this morning. That's unfortunate that they lost one here.

But that's what I actually anticipated that it with some type of aircraft because of the spread of the pieces. I know you were on the scene of the MH17 crash and you know how far those different pieces of that large aircraft went.

When you hit an aircraft, a military aircraft, with probably, and it was probably the same kind of missile, a Buk system missile, it's going to spread that aircraft all over the sky. Just like we're seeing here. So, that's really unfortunate for that Ukrainian pilot.

LEMON: General, Matthew, thank you very much. We are entering day two of the Russian incursion into Ukraine. Our correspondents are throughout the region bringing us the very latest. And we're going to speak with a member of armed services, the armed service committee who recently has been in Europe with meeting with NATO officials. [22:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): President Joe Biden imposing the harshest sanctions yet on Russia, while saying Vladimir Putin chose this war in Ukraine.

Joining me now, Democratic Congressman John Garamendi of California. He is on the House armed services committee. We're so happy to have you, Congressman. Really appreciate it.

You just got out of a House --

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): Thank you, Don.

LEMON: -- briefing on this war in Ukraine with top Biden administration officials. Talk to us. What do you know?

GARAMENDI: Well, pretty much what most people know. A little more detail on a few things along the way, but the reality is that we're going to continue to provide defensive equipment, as well as humanitarian and financial aid to the Ukrainians. We fully expect them to be able to use those.

Also, it's pretty clear that Russia does have the domination and the general may very -- the general may very well be right that intense interest and love of country might very well be stronger than all of the tanks that Russia might have. We also had a long conversation about the sanctions. And if I were to summarize it, I'd say -- what's that old saying? If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And that's basically what the administration has put together.

They have assembled the broadest possible array of allies and partners around the world to push back on Russia using sanctions. There's only two countries that appear to not be part of that group. That would be China and India. And India may very well come along.

So, it's a very, very powerful set of sanctions. And the possibility, maybe even the probability that additional sanctions will be added in the days ahead.

LEMON: As you know, Congressman, though, sanctions work overtime and over a period of time, and depending on how harsh the sanctions are. It could take longer for them to work. While this is happening, the people of Ukraine are in dire straits right now. Dealing with destruction and death and the like.

GARAMENDI: Yes.

LEMON: What do you say to those people -- I mean, sanctions, that's going to take some time. They're in the middle of it.

GARAMENDI: Well, they certainly are. And it's tragic, horrific, it's deadly. Many people have already died and many more will. Putin have made a decision. He made a decision that is contrary to international law, to the norms, to all that's been the pattern of international relations since the end of World War II.

And unfortunately, that Ukrainians are paying the price for that. Yes, indeed, the sanctions are something that will impact some of it immediately. Others of it over a longer period of time. I'd be very interested in having a fuller understanding of why the streets of 50 cities in Russia were filled with people this morning, protesting -- excuse me, yesterday morning, protesting the war.

Those are the people that will come to understand in the days ahead, some of it sooner, some of it later, that this war is really coming down on them in their country. And the body bags will also be going back. Those are the -- that's where the sanctions will take effect immediately.

[22:40:01]

This is a fight that the Ukrainians will have to carry out by themselves with assistance from many, many NATO nations. This is another thing we learned during our meeting at the NATO parliamentary assembly. That is that NATO countries are also supplying arms and other material to Ukraine. But the United States is not going to put troops on the ground or in the air over Ukraine. That's been very clear.

LEMON: Congressman is just back from that NATO parliamentary assembly in Europe just yesterday. Congressman, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge of this. Thank you so much. Be well. We'll talk soon.

GARAMENDI: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you.

GARAMENDI: Bye-bye.

LEMON: Thousands of Russians detained in protest of their country's invasion of Ukraine. More of that in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:45:00]

LEMON (on camera): Our breaking news, Russia waging a deadly war in Ukraine and beginning to pay a price for that at home.

I want to bring in now CNN global affairs analyst, Aaron David Miller, and former nine-term Congresswoman Jane Harman, president emerita of the Wilson Center.

Good evening to both of you. I'm going to start with you, Aaron. this invasion is already incredibly deadly, more than 130 Ukrainian soldiers killed in just the first day. There is fighting across the country. What are you most worried about as this war unfolds?

AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: On a basic human level, Don, you've to really feel sympathy and empathy for Ukrainian military and the civilians, who arguably are going to be caught up in harm's way, assuming the Russians decide to encircle Kyiv, or go into civilian concentrated areas.

You know, cities consume armies, and the reality is if that happens, we're talking about a level of destruction and human tragedy that is pretty extensive. Beyond that, I've got to be concerned if Putin in fact gets his way, and I suspect he will, in terms of dominating the country.

What happens when you have pro-Russian forces and Russians bumping up against countries? Poland and Romania who are article 5 NATO members.

LEMON: Yes.

MILLER: It's very scary and ominous situation, Don. And I think we are talking here months, in fact years of a new reality between the United States and Russia.

LEMON: Jane, Iranian president -- Ukrainian President Zelensky, excuse me, Zelensky, says Russia has marked him as target number one. And U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken said this tonight. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We do know and part of the Russian plan has been to put Kyiv in danger, to assault the capital, to go after other major cities. We are seeing forces come in from the north, from the east, from the south. And that's all part of the plan that we've laid out for the world in recent weeks.

DAVID MUIR, ANCHOR, ABC: You're convinced that Putin is going to overthrow this government?

BLINKEN: I'm convinced he's going to try to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): So, what does this look like if that happens, this conflict looks like if that happens?

JANE HARMAN, PRESIDENT EMERITA, WILSON CENTER: Well, our intelligence has been magnificent, and I do applaud Tony Blinken and others for sharing in real-time the playbook that Russia has. But I think that a regime change is only part one of Vladimir Putin may try to do.

I think he's trying to threaten the whole liberal world order that was set up after World War II by us in concert with Europeans, the Marshall Plan, and other things that we helped revived and restore those that we have vanquished including Germany and Japan and made them part of a system of friends.

We didn't do that after the Cold War ended, and we are paying a huge price. I wrote a book about this, for the fact that we declared ourselves the world superpower, and only indispensable nation and ignored the rise of terrorism. The fact that China didn't want to be us, and the fact that Russia has nurtured the sense of grievance for 30 years.

I was in Munich, too, last weekend, the Russians were not there, and the good news is that the west has unified against Russia. So, hopefully, we will find a way to preserve and improve the system of world order that we established with good intentions and with great success after World War II.

LEMON: Aaron, President Biden is leveling, you know, Jane mentioned the sanctions, a bunch of sanctions, new sanctions on Russia. But you say that Putin has largely sanction-proof his country. So, what will the sanctions do? Because so far, they've done nothing to stop Putin, they haven't been a deterrent at all.

MILLER: You know, I doubt that the administration would admit this if Tony Blinken and the president were on call, I think that they realistic enough to know that sanctions were not designed to deter. Putin has the advantage of geography, tight supply lines, he has local actors on the ground that will do his bidding. And he has will.

Don, he is prepared to sacrifice Russian lives in pursuit of his goals. Joe Biden is not. Ukraine may be very important, and it is, but it is discretionary. It's not a place where Joe Biden is going to send Americans to die. So, the real question is, will sanctions raise the costs? Will they punish?

And I think your previous guest, I think that some did pretty well. If you want to go fast, but go alone, that's one thing. If you want to go far, you got to go together. And I think the administration has a set of sanctions, which will raise the cost. They will not deter Putin from his goals in Ukraine but they will raise the cost.

[22:50:02]

And again, I reinforced my latter point. We are in a new policy of containment, whether it's a new Cold War or not, I don't know. But if we are going to be containing Putin for months and years to come, and we need a strategy that will not just contain this ministration but to the next one as well.

LEMON: Jane, I've got just 10 seconds if you want to weigh in, I see you're trying to get in.

HARMAN: Yes. Well, I agree, but don't underestimate the will of the Ukrainian people. I was on to Maidan in 20 -- 2014, and I met a young cob reporter for CNN named Jim Sciutto. And they toppled the old Russian regime. And they will fight, and they will have a modern country now and they have held on to it for over seven years.

And I don't think this is just going to be easy. It's going to be ugly, but I don't think it's going to be easy. And I don't think Putin is going to have a rougher time than he expects.

LEMON: Jane, thank you very much. Aaron, as well, I appreciate it.

Men between 18 and 60 now not allowed to leave Ukraine. But plenty of women and children are crossing into Poland. We are live on the border where the refugees have been streaming in all day and all night.

[22:55:00]

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LEMON (on camera): An ominous warning today from the Secretary of State Tony Blinken on Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Saying the U.S. government believes Moscow has developed plans to inflict widespread human rights abuses on the Ukrainian people.

The U.N.'s refugee agency saying more than 100,000 Ukrainians are on the move since the invasion began. Many fleeing across the border to Poland where CNN's Scott McLean is live for us tonight.

Scott, hello to you. You have been seeing and speaking with refugees coming in all day and all night. What are you seeing and what are they saying? What are you hearing from them?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, I'm struggling to think of a more miserable place to be. It's almost 5 o'clock in the morning here. It is freezing cold. It is dark. And everyone who makes it to this point could not be happier to get out of the lines that we're seeing.

So, this is the track that people have to make up to where they're going to catch a bus or taxi. I'll explain where we are. We're in a bit of a no man's land between the Ukrainian and Polish borders. On this side of the fence is where the cars are going through, if they come through the other direction, it's Ukraine.

And I'll just show you really quickly. So, this is Ukraine on this side. And then through there, you can actually see there's mostly women and children who are lining up to get through Polish border control.

This is not where the bottleneck is though. We are hearing reports of people waiting, eight, nine, 10, 12 hours in some cases, to get across the border. And the holdup is actually well beyond this on the Ukrainian side, where you need to get an exit stamp. Of course, we know that the Ukrainian government is no longer allowing men between the ages of 18 and 60 to leave the country. They may well have to be serving in the military or called up from the reserves instead.

And so, instead, it's all been women and children. We've spoken to many of them. They describe, you know, having to wait out in the cold. Then what I found really remarkable though is how few complaints that I've heard from people. Even from the children. Many of them very small. I have not heard a single child make a peep. I have not heard a single child cry. It is really remarkable.

And this was not something that these people could have planned for. It is difficult to not being a parent under normal circumstances. It is much more difficult when you wake up this morning, early this morning, realize that your country is under attack, pack a bag, try to get to the border, get in a taxi and then walk on foot across. People having to wait 12 hours. I just spoke to one woman who said

that it took her, I think, 10 -- 10 or so hours to get across the border on foot. And she said that she skipped -- she cut in the line. She said there were simply be no other way that she could've made it across the border in these freezing temperatures. She said that the men were being separated out.

She said that some men were trying to make it through anyways. And it was just a really miserable situation. I think we have some pictures. I don't know if you can put those up from the other side of the border, where it's just a torrent of people trying to push their way to the front to get over here to Poland.

And then from there, the government is trying to figure out what to do with them. They're boarding buses. They're going to reception centers if they don't have somewhere to go. Others are trying to get on trains to Warsaw. Trying to get on planes to go somewhere else. And there's a lot of foreigners that we've run into, as well, who had flights obviously.

LEMON: Yes.

MCLEAN: They weren't able to get on those --

LEMON: Yes, we're --

MCLEAN: -- and so instead they had to come here and try to figure out where to go from there, Don.

LEMON: Yes, we're looking at the pictures that you sent back to us earlier. It is a mess. It looks very cold and no one else to blame but Vladimir Putin.

Thank you very much, Scott McLean. We appreciate that. Hundreds dead or wounded. We are now 25 hours into Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Our reporters are spread out all across the region. Stay with us.

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