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Don Lemon Tonight

New York City Subway Shooting Suspect Arrested; The Battle For Mariupol; Russia-Ukraine Conflict Through Putin's Eyes; Deadly Police Shooting Of A Black Man In Grand Rapids, Michigan; Shanghai's 25 Million People Are In COVID Lockdown. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 13, 2022 - 23:00   ET




DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is DON LEMON TONIGHT. We are going to begin with the breaking news. The man suspected of opening fire on a packed New York City subway train in custody tonight. Police say 62-year-old Frank James was arrested without incident this afternoon in Lower Manhattan.

And in a strange twist to the story, sources say James himself called in to the NYPD's crime stoppers hotline to report that he was sitting at a McDonald's in Manhattan's east village. Police put him in handcuffs about an hour later after bystanders saw the suspect walking the streets.

James is accused of setting off smoke canisters on board a Brooklyn subway car during the morning rush hour and then firing his handgun 33 times at fellow passengers. Ten people were shot and more than a dozen others were injured in the melee of terrified passengers scrambling to get off of the train.

He is now charged with violently attacking a mass transit system and is due in federal court tomorrow. But investigators say the motive is still unknown.

I want to begin this hour with Chris Swecker, the former FBI assistant director for the Criminal Investigative Division, and Tom Verni. Tom is a former NYPD detective. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate having both of you on this evening.

Chris, when you hear the suspected shooter called in the tip that led to his own capture, why do you think he did that?

CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: Yeah. First thing that comes to mind, Don, was he going to ambush the people that came to arrest him? We don't know. I haven't heard any reports about whether he had any weapons on him when he was arrested, but it's sort of consistent with his strange, bizarre behavior throughout the incident.

So, you know, I -- maybe he just wanted to be caught. That happens all the time when someone is on the run. He's no Jason Bourne. He's not someone who was trained to be on the run, didn't have the instincts or the infrastructure to do that, so maybe he was just tired.

LEMON: Tom, let me bring you in here. As a former NYPD detective, how is it that the suspect was able to just walk around and hang out at McDonald's in the east village the day after shooting 10 people on a subway train?

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Hey, Don. Good evening. Yeah, I mean, look, it's New York City, any could blend in anywhere. It's not surprising, based on the behavior that we know to date of this individual, that his behavior would be even weirder than we originally thought, right?

There were reports that he had connections to Wisconsin and Philadelphia, so you would think, you know, you would go on the run and maybe hide in another large city and just kind of blend in.

But, you now, in New York, we have 8.5 million people living in New York, we have another two to three million people that visit and work in the city every day, so it is very easy to just kind of disappear.

But thankfully, you know, fate was in our favor that he decided for whatever reason to kind of turn himself in almost and the officers were able to spot him and take him in.

LEMON: Well, not almost, he did. He called and said, this is where I am, and they went there and found him very close to where he said he was. The question is, though, with so many video cameras around New York, do police need a better or quicker way to analyze all of that?

Look, I'm glad they caught him. It was -- you know, thankfully, nobody else was hurt. I give tremendous credit to the New York City Police Department, I would say the best police department in the country, but what needs to happen here to make arrests like this quicker and have a more coordinated effort, especially when it comes to cameras and so forth?

VERNI: Well, I think, you know -- I think it's kind of remarkable that we were able to get this guy in under 24 hours. So, you know, from the time he committed this, you know, very scary, frightening act, I mean, people are going to be traumatized -- the people involved that were injured are going to be traumatized probably for the rest of their lives because of this.

So, you know, considering, you know, where he could have gone and where he could have hidden potentially, it is quite amazing, I think, that an arrest was made so soon.

However, as the police commissioner had mentioned earlier today, you know, once we got enough physical evidence which he left a lot of it at the scene, and we got a beat on who this guy was, his picture was out there, his world was closing quickly on him.

So, it was just a matter of time before someone was going to spot him and pick him out somewhere and call the authorities from where he happened to be.


VERNI: I think he kind of realized --

LEMON: You think, Tom, that it was quick? Look, the New Yorkers I know --

VERNI: Yeah.

LEMON: -- the conversation that everybody I had from, you know, just everyone was, they haven't caught that guy yet, they haven't caught that guy yet. When the, you know, the alert went off this morning, you know, where I live, everyone in the building was, like, the alarm is going off, what is going -- they haven't gotten -- that was a question on everyone -- every New Yorker's mind. They haven't gotten that guy yet, but you think it was quick?

VERNI: Yeah. I mean, look, you know, crimes are not solved in 43 minutes that we watch on kind of "Law & Order" on TV. It's -- even with the massive manhunt, multiagency manhunt that we had underway, again, you're talking about a city of 8 to 12 million people on any given day, and that's assuming that he didn't flee somewhere else.

So, you know, I think, again, having been in the business over 20 years, almost 30 years at this point, that I think it's still remarkable that, first of all, that he didn't go out and do something else and that he was able to be apprehended, you know, without incident.

I understand people's apprehension, and thank goodness this guy is a few sandwiches short of a picnic and that he decided to call and again kind of say, hey, here I am, come and get me.

LEMON: Yeah.

VERNI: So, it could have been a lot worse for the people involved that were a victim of this. It could have taken a lot longer to track him down. If you think of some of these other terrorist incidents we had in the past --

LEMON: Okay.

VERNI: -- not that they're related, sometimes it takes a while.

LEMON (on camera): All right. I get your point. So, Chris, the suspected shooter talked about violence and mass shootings and some really racist stuff in videos on YouTube. Take a look at this.


FRANK JAMES, NYC SUBWAY SHOOTING SUSPECT: We need to see more mass shootings. Yeah, we need -- no, we need to see more, more mass shootings. To make (bleep) understand, listen, you're going down. No, it's not about the shooter. No. It's not about the shooter. It's about the environment in which he has to exist.


LEMON (on camera): So, he's ranting about shooting, about the mayor, about white people, about all of that. This is the issue when it comes to these social media sites. I mean, YouTube has now removed his account, but why is this sort of rhetoric allowed at all on these sites, on this site in particular, Chris?

SWECKER: Yeah. I asked that question all day long today. How did that stuff get on YouTube and stay there? I've said before, in most mass shootings, the shooter is flashing red before they go off. They don't just spontaneously come bust. They've been building up to this point.

And this person had, I understand, well over 100 videos that he posted, all of them spewing vitriol and hate and really providing a road map and clues as to what he was going to do.

So, it baffles me that this kind of thing can stay on YouTube and not get filtered out. You know, they're able to kind of get into speech and rhetoric of people who are more mainstream than this guy. I don't know how they missed this guy.

LEMON: Tom, I got to ask you. I was talking to the former police commissioner last night, you know him well, Bill Bratton. And again, he was blunt. He -- we talked about how to stop this from happening again. He said nothing. What to stop this from happening again, his quote is nothing. So, what is the best way to protect the subway system?

VERNI: Well, I mean, we're getting reports that a number of cameras were out in the subway system, which I'm sure the MTA will hopefully be investigating as to why that is. To be honest, it's not uncommon, unfortunately, in a lot of these subway stations. However --

LEMON: Why is it not uncommon? What's the breakdown? Is it a funding? What is it? Is it just --

VERNI: I think it's just a common occurrence, unfortunately, that in every subway station that has video cameras, they don't always operate properly. Whether it's poor maintenance, whether it is not enough money to buy new cameras or repair the ones they have, I'm not really sure.

That's something the MTA and the city are going to have to look into to make sure that doesn't happen again. And hopefully -- it shouldn't take an incident like that for that to occur.

But, you know, I think, you know, Commissioner Bratton is correct that there really is nothing to stop some maniac from obtaining a weapon, a firearm or otherwise, and going on and causing an incident like this.

However, the public really is key in, you know, making sure that they're vigilant and watching what people's actions are. If someone happens to see this video on YouTube, something like that, they should report that to the authorities.

If they're seeing this guy who may be a little off line, saying all these things and making threats, report it to somebody. [23:10:00]

VERNI: If you see something, say something adage, right? If the police don't know, they don't know what they don't know, and the public is integral in making sure that these people that are out there are put under wraps before something terrible happens.

LEMON: Chris, are you worried about copycats?

SWECKER: Always. These things tend to go viral and -- gosh. We've seen copycats since columbine, really. I mean, I think there's -- I hate to say it, Don, but the media, you know, will always cover these incidents as they should, but I think there are people out there that when the seed is planted, it almost normalizes this sort of thing and it shows them that there's a way to go out with notoriety. You're going to be noticed, you're going to stand up and be counted.

But let me -- can I comment on the prevention part of it with what Bill Bratton said and what we were just discussing?


SWECKER: If there was ever a place where you need a visible presence of a police officer, it's in the subway. People are trapped down there, they're in a cave, they're in a tube, there's no rescue. And I really think that that is one area where -- I do the security assessments all the time. Cameras don't deter bad guys, but a visible presence, a very conspicuous visible presence of an armed security officer or police officer is, I think, the gold standard.

LEMON: That was my next -- sorry, I had real allergies here, I had to take off line, so people at home were wondering what I was doing, but that is my next question. What is -- Tom, as a former NYPD detective, what is the solution here because crime is going up, right?

I'm worried about a copycat. Many people are worried about a copycat. They see what this guy can do, what he did in the New York City subway system. I know you think it was fast. But then to be on the loose for 30-some odd hours --

VERNI: Yeah.

LEMON: -- that is concerning. So, what's the fix here?

VERNI: Well, the city like New York prior to 9/11, I read about 41,000 police officers in the NYPD. Now, I believe the number is down to about 35,000. So, through attrition, there has not been a replacement of the amounts of officers. And even 41,000, quite frankly, in the city like New York City where you have 10 million plus people, is not enough cops to police a city like that.

So, there is a shortage of manpower. So, resources are tight. Even if you have to hire private security to be the eyes and ears, if you don't have enough officers to man -- because there aren't enough officers to man every train station. That's a simple fact. So, you need additional eyes and ears. And he is right, physical presence of some kind, whether it be armed security or some other security force other than the police who could notify the police readily if there is something amiss going on in the subway system.

LEMON: Thank you both. Appreciate it.

VERNI: Any time.

LEMON (on camera): Lucky no one lost their life in this one.

Mariupol's mayor says 180,000 people are still in the area of the city waiting to be evacuated. Ukraine's government insists Mariupol has not yet fallen, but how long can they hold on after weeks of devastation?


IVANNA KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE, MEMBER, PEOPLE'S DEPUTY OF UKRAINE: What we're learning is that Russians are trying to cover up all their crimes and they brought in at least 13 mobile crematoriums that have been already noticed on the territory of Mariupol.





LEMON: The mayor of the besieged city of Mariupol says 180,000 people, 180,000, are still waiting to be evacuated. No humanitarian corridors were open today. Russian forces are blocking the buses meant for evacuation.

But as CNN's Matt Rivers reports, defenders are still holding out in a desperate fight for every block of the city.


MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Weeks after Russia began an offensive bombardment to take the city and still Ukraine's government says Mariupol has not yet fallen. The key port on the southeast coast of Ukraine increasingly a symbol of both Ukrainian resistance and Russian military goals.

Ukrainian officials are holding up the city as a symbol of a heroic fight with an aide to President Zelenskyy saying on Facebook that two different units defending Mariupol have managed to link up and continue their fight. One of those units releasing a message, saying, they -- quote -- "did not give up their positions."

And now, there are accusations from the Ukrainians that Russia has used chemical weapons here.

VADYM BOICHENKO, MAYOR OF MARIUPOL (through translator): The day before yesterday, the Russian troops attempted to strike our city with the so-called chemical attack. They tried to drop a chemical agent on our defenders. The agent did affect our defenders. And there's evidence a number of people living in settlements in the outskirts of Mariupol were also affected.

RIVERS (voice-over): President Zelenskyy accusing Russia of using -- quote -- "phosphorus bombs and other munitions prohibited by international law."

The U.S. as well as CNN teams on the ground have not yet verified that such an attack did indeed occur. No conclusive imagery has surfaced. Russia denies even having chemical weapons.

But chemical weapons or not, the destruction in Mariupol has been devastating. The mayor says more than 90% of the city's infrastructure has been damaged or destroyed. Officials say Russian forces have cut off crucial supplies, including water and food.

UNKNOWN (through translator): We are currently discussing 20 to 22,000 people dead in Mariupol.


RIVERS (voice-over): Meanwhile, Russia is engaged in an intense propaganda campaign, saying it is close to capturing what would be its first major Ukrainian city since the war began.

IGOR KONASHENKOV, RUSSIAN MINISTRY OF DEFENSE (through translator): As a result of successful offensive actions of the Russian armed forces and the police units of the DPR, 1,026 Ukrainian military personnel of the 36th Marine Brigade voluntarily laid down their arms and surrendered.

RIVERS (voice-over): The Russian military also taking some reporters on a tour of a now destroyed theater where hundreds of people have been sheltering when it was hit by a Russian airstrike last month, according to Ukrainian officials.

UNKNOWN (through translator): You can see for yourself what the situation in the city is. There are a lot of dead people.

RIVERS (voice-over): And for those still alive, a hellish landscape persists. Ukraine's government says about 180,000 people in and around the city still need to be evacuated. So far, many have not been able to do so.

(On camera): And Don, while the Ukrainian government says there is no way to know exactly how many people have been killed as a result of all of this fighting in Mariupol, they say the number is in the thousands. Just a horrific toll been taken from the city as the fighting goes on. Don?


LEMON: All right. Matt Rivers, thank you so much.

Tonight, Russia is claiming it had to evacuate the warship Moskva in the Black Sea after a fire on board detonated ammunition. Now, Ukraine says that they struck the ship with missiles. CNN cannot verify what happened but the ship was right in the middle of an infamous incident in the start of the war.

I want to bring in now CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Am I pronouncing it as Moskva or Moskova?


LEMON: I just want to make sure that I got it right. thank you, colonel. So, this is the same ship involved in the exchange on Snake Island in February where the Ukrainian told the Russians on the warship to go at themselves. You know, we reported it here. Ukraine did strike the ship. What does this tell you about their capabilities?

LEIGHTON: Well, that's pretty huge, actually. So, just as a reminder, Don, Snake Island is right there and this is where that incident occurred. So, the Moskva is a guided-missile cruiser. Here's a picture of it right here while it's in (INAUDIBLE) in Russian-occupied Crimea.

The other important thing about this, this is a guided-missile cruiser, the cruise missile of the naval-type that the Russians have and it can fire those range of about 400 or so miles into enemy territory or adversary territory.

The other important thing about this though is this is the flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet. What that means is that is where the admiral is when he is running naval operations in the Black Sea.

So, if the ship was hit and it was damaged by the Ukrainians, that is a major, major tactical victory for them.

LEMON: Colonel, against all odds, Mariupol is still holding out tonight. If Ukrainian forces really are willing to fight to the end, how long can they hold out -- hold up and draw away Russian resources?

LEIGHTON: So, this is a very interesting question because -- this is Mariupol right here. How long can they hold out? It really depends, Don, on how much supply -- re-supplying they get and how much the Russians will actually let them stay there. It is, you know, it depends on what the Russians are going to do. But it also depends on the Ukrainians' will to fight.

The fact that two of their units have linked up, if that reporting is accurate, then what that means is that there is enough freedom of movement for the Ukrainian forces that they can actually withstand some of the onslaught that the Russians have been conducting. And if that is the case, there is a chance, very slim chance, that they might be able to break out of the siege.

I don't want to say too much in that direction but the idea that they can link up gives them a little bit of freedom of movement and, if at some point they get the chance, they might be able to expand their territory within the city there.

LEMON: I want to ask you about a French military saying -- military official saying that Russia can launch a large-scale offensive in the east and south and can do it within days. He said possibly 10 days or so. What does that timeline mean for Ukrainian forces?

LEIGHTON: So, if you look at the Donbas area and see, you know, this area right here being what they already -- what the Russians and their separatist allies already control, this area right here, what they control with their own forces, in 10 days or so, what we could see is Russian forces moving in this way to Sloviansk and Kramatorsk where the train station was hit.

They would go beyond Donetsk and go after this area. So, it is possible that the Russians would move into this area. Now, that presupposes that they can actually handle the logistical challenges that they have there.


LEIGHTON: The roads are, you know, certainly possible at this point in time. But if the Ukrainians channel them into the roads, either through their own actions or through a combination of their own actions and weather issues, that could certainly slow down the Russian efforts.

It depends also on how many forces the Russians can bring to bear here because if they don't have the wherewithal to bring in forces from Russia itself and especially the forces that were involved in the Kyiv operation, then you would have a problem if you're looking at this from the Russian point of view.

So, they could actually do this within 10 days, but their ability to actually occupy this territory right here is, I believe, somewhat limited based on the problems that they've had and the leadership issues that they've had.

LEMON: Colonel, thank you. We'll see you soon. Appreciate it again.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Don. Absolutely.

LEMON: After Russian forces had to fall back from their attempted sacking of Kyiv, they are now regrouping for a renewed Russian offensive in the east. What could Putin be thinking through all of this? I'm going to ask a former CIA officer. That's next.




LEMON: Vladimir Putin's forces potentially preparing for a large- scale offensive in the east of Ukraine in the coming days. That is according to French military officials. That after Putin's attempt to take Kyiv totally failed. What is Putin thinking? Let's discuss now with the former CIA operations officer, Douglas London. He served in the CIA's Clandestine Service for over three decades. We appreciate having him on. Thank you, Douglas. So, good evening to you.

Putin is speaking again today, this time insisting that the sanctions on Russian oil and gas are hurting Europe and the U.S. far more than Russia, essentially saying that the pain it is inflicting on the west is good and that Russia has alternative energy opportunities is pure spin. So, who exactly is this message for?

DOUGLAS LONDON, FORMER SENIOR CIA OPERATIONS OFFICER: Trying to figure out Putin requires you to look at the world through Putin's eyes. He is not just the product of the Cold War, he's the product of the Cold War era KGB. That is an organization that is racist, elitist, and xenophobic. It allows its officers, if you would, to dehumanize their victims, you know, in a predatory sort of fashion.

So, when we see his moves and we talk now about them regrouping or consolidating where they're looking for an off ramp, I think there's a great deal of danger in trying to expect his calculus to be anything like ours.

His view of strength and weaknesses, his risk versus gain calculus, is not based on how we look at the world, but shaped on his experiences, much of which has to do with witnessing the collapse of the Soviet Union really up close in Germany as a wall fell.

LEMON: You know, just yesterday, he was telling Russians that they were helping people in Ukraine and protecting Russia's security. He said that he had no choice, right? That he was again to hold denazification of Ukraine. A spokesman recently admitted to significant losses of troops. Do you think Putin is feeling the pressure to explain his actions?

LONDON: He has always played the victimization card. And the idea that Russia is threatened by this Nazi element across the border and he gets to ride in on the white horse and play the hero is consistent with what he has done from the outset.

His initial days of power in 1999 was when we believed, the world does, that staged bombings of his own people's apartment building in Moscow, which he attributed to Chechens, giving him the justification to come to again come to the rescue and send Russian troops forward in Chechnya in a brutal and bloody war which sort of gives us an idea or preview of what we're seeing today.

So, his factoring of blood and treasure is going to be different than ours. It is not the number of bodies that come home. It is when and if it begins to threaten him internally. With Putin, trying to figure out how to find a way to motivate him, it is not concessions.

His world is based on consequences and opportunities which is why the carrot within is really the absence of the stick. Where there is a price for him to pay is really what's going to shape his calculus and get him to be influenced to see the need for a road out of this rather than lose his power.

LEMON: Douglas, you know, this war is going badly for Putin. But you say even if he knows that, he is never going to back down. He will double down. It is almost two months into this invasion of Ukraine. So, what do you think his next move is?

LONDON: I think he will continue to double down. I think he's got plans that -- I don't know. You know, he's trying to write checks that I don't think that his military can cash in terms of setting folks that just got shellacked in one part of the country and then turning around and pushing them forward here.

I believe he needs to continue to have this balance of one, fear, that the people will fear him, but also at the same time, believe they still need him because the threat is real.

His ability to, you know, provide false information and propaganda has been fairly effective at least with the older generation in a country where he controls all the media, he controls all the information.


LONDON: So, I don't rule out the possibility, as U.S. Intelligence has been suggesting, that he still could contend that there was a chemical attack he has to respond to or attacks, perhaps, by even NATO forces that he has to respond to.

So, I think it's important not to think in terms of what we would find logic, that his escalation and spiraling is going to be predicated on what is going to keep him secure mostly at home with his own people.

LEMON: Douglas London, thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us. We will see you soon.

LONDON: Thanks. I'll be back.

LEMON: A fatal traffic stop in Michigan leaving yet another Black man dead. A community reeling. The body camera footage released today. That story is next.




LEMON: Grand Rapids, Michigan is a city on edge tonight following the deadly police shooting of a 26-year-old Black man during a traffic stop earlier this month.

Today, the police department releasing several videos that captured the incident, which is being investigated by the state police, and Michigan's governor promising it will be transparent and independent, and also calling for calm while the evidence is gathered. Multiple protests in Grand Rapids demanding justice.

More now on the developing story from CNN's Omar Jimenez.


OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A struggle, a gunshot --


JIMENEZ (voice-over): -- a Black man dead on the streets of Grand Rapids, Michigan. A police officer is now under investigation for shooting 26-year-old Patrick Lyola in the head. A frustrated community demands answers.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Stay in the car!

JIMENEZ (voice-over): On April 4th, police say Lyola was pulled over for improper registration on the car he was driving, though, did not elaborate on why they were looking in the first place. Just a few minutes into the stop, Lyola starts to run.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): No, no, no, stop. Put your hands right there.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): The officer catches Lyola. The two begin to wrestle. Then, the officer uses a taser. But it fails to make impact. The officer's body camera turns off during the struggle. Police say it was unintentional. But the passenger in Lyola's car was recording this cell phone video and captured what happens next.

UNKNOWN: Drop the taser!


UNKNOWN: We are determined to get this right.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Authorities now facing tough questions like whether the officer's life was in enough jeopardy to draw his gun.

ERIC WINSTROM, GRAND RAPIDS POLICE DEPARTMENT: So, a taser is not, per se, a deadly weapon. The taser is what would be known as an intermediate weapon. Intermediate weapon without the potential to cause death. It would have the potential to cause great bodily harm, but not necessarily --

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Lyola was a Congolese refugee. The chief saying a potential language barrier is part of the investigation. The family's lawyer, Ben Crump, contends Lyola was confused by the encounter and terrified for his life. The NAACP adding, an unregistered license plate should not be a death sentence.

The still unidentified officer has been stripped of his police powers but remains on paid leave, pending the official state investigation.

UNKNOWN: We will seek transparency. We will speak truth.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON (on camera): Omar Jimenez joins me now. Omar, good evening to you. I understand that there have been protests there in Grand Rapids tonight. What are people saying?

JIMENEZ: Yeah, Don, we've seen protests throughout the evening. Things have calmed down now, but a little bit earlier, there were hundreds marching and demonstrating in downtown Grand Rapids outside a very barricaded police department, chanting, justice for Patrick Lyola. Familiar calls, different case.

Now, there is still an ongoing investigation, of course, to determine whether this officer's actions were justified or whether he crossed a line. But the attorney for the Lyola family, Ben Crump, is already calling this use of force unnecessary and excessive, and joins a chorus of people calling not only for the firing of this officer but also the arrest and prosecution of this officer as well. Don?

LEMON: Listen, Omar, we've covered so many of these incidents at this network. A man is dead over a car registration. The whole thing happened in just two minutes and 40 seconds. But this isn't really cut and dried.

JIMENEZ: It is not. There is a lot to look at here. I mean, even as these two were eventually wrestling with each other, this officer tried to use his taser twice and missed. Lyola is seen putting his hands on the taser. At points, both the officer and Lyoya seemed to have at least one hand on the taser even as they go to the ground for what is -- what becomes the final time.

The last words we hear from the officer are, drop the taser, and then a single gunshot to the head at point blank range. The officer gets up, Lyola doesn't.

Now, moving forward, the central questions here are, what prompted this officer, one, to pull out his gun? But also, if it was because of the taser, did the threat of that teaser rise to that threshold of imminent great bodily harm or imminent death?

It's part of the investigation. That's ongoing, led by Michigan State Police right now. Once that's over, the results will be turned over to the Grand Rapids Police Department's internal affairs for potential disciplinary action, but it will also be turned over to the county prosecutor for any potential criminal charges.


JIMENEZ: But for now, the officer remains on paid leave at this point, stripped of his police powers, as we do expect to hear from the Lyola family on Thursday, as we also expect to see more protests as well.

LEMON: Omar, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Shanghai's 25 million residents still in a total lockdown. We are going to talk with someone who has been stuck inside for more than 12 days and counting. That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)



LEMON: So, there doesn't appear to be any relief in sight for 25 million inhabitants of Shanghai who are living under a COVID lockdown. China's government shutting the city down a few weeks ago under its zero-COVID policy. For many people stuck inside their homes, even getting enough food every day is a constant struggle.

I want to bring in now Kelly Donovan, an American teacher who lives in Shanghai. Kelly, thank you very much. I understand that if someone knocks on your door, you have to go because you have to get a COVID test. Am I correct?

KELLY DONOVAN, AMERICAN ON LOCKDOWN IN SHANGHAI: Correct. It doesn't seem like that is going to happen right now, but it is a possibility.

LEMON: Okay. All right. Um, how are you doing?

DONOVAN: Under the circumstances, I think I am in a pretty privileged position right now. So, I am doing better than some other people that I know in the city. But it's -- every day is the same and we are going on 14 days here in total city lockdown in Shanghai.

LEMON: Yes. So, what is it? 13 days now that you've been --

DONOVAN: Thirteen. This is 13.

LEMON: This is your 13th day. We have seen people shouting from their balconies in protest there. So, folks are not happy. You said that you are in a privileged position, but talk to me about other folks. What are you seeing and experiencing?

DONOVAN: Well, so, even in my situation, right, the -- it's been 13 days and I received two packages from the government, which consisted mostly of potatoes and onions. And we are basically called at very limited notice to go for COVID testing. I have had maybe 12 COVID tests in the last 13 days.

And we are not allowed to leave our apartments typically. There are certain areas where you can leave now, but that is a relatively recent change. The policies indicate that even for walking your dog, you are not allowed to leave your apartment.

So, it's -- we've been confined now. Grocery stores and delivery are not an option. So, many people are resorting to bartering and trading for food with their neighbors and trying to get ahold of what we call these group-buy situations. But in my situation, my compound is too small to qualify because you have to meet a certain threshold for food to be delivered.

LEMON: Wait. You can't walk your dog? Meaning --

DONOVAN: No. If you have a dog, you have to be training your dog now to be going to the bathroom inside.

LEMON: Wow. So, how many tests -- you said you've had, what, 12, 13 COVID tests? Is that what you said?

DONOVAN: Twelve. Yeah.

LEMON: Twelve. Okay. So, in the past 12 days. So, what happens if you test positive? I mean, what do you do?

DONOVAN: I mean, it's not good. You don't want that to happen. So, if you test positive, even if you are completely asymptomatic, you have no symptoms, you are likely going to be taken to a converted facility with everybody else in the city who has tested positive. If you are a close contact of somebody who has tested positive, you will be removed also to centralized quarantine, usually into a hotel situation where you will stay for up to 10 days until you test negative twice.

LEMON: And you have a cat, right?

DONOVAN: I do, yeah. She's asleep now, but I do have a cat, yeah.

LEMON: So, we are laughing, but what happens if people have animals? What would happen to your cat if, God forbid, that you test positive? I mean, you've been there for 12 days. Chances are, knock on wood, you are not going to, but what would happen to your animal?

DONOVAN: That is a major concern for a lot of people here in Shanghai. There is not a government-wide or city-wide policy for what to do with pets, so it often comes down to the decision of your neighborhood committee.

So, imagine if your homeowners' association is now the one that gets to decide what happens to your pet, because there is no local movement. Everybody is locked down. It's really hard to transport your pet to boarding facilities or to a foster. So, there is a lot of grassroot and kind of people-to-people networking that is happening.

Every day, I wake up and see hundreds of requests on my social media for pleas of help for somebody to agree to take these animals while their owners are in COVID facilities.

LEMON: Wow. So, you are originally from North Carolina, where your parents live. Are you able to speak to your family often? Can you FaceTime or call them? And what are you telling them about what you're experiencing?

DONOVAN: Yeah. I mean, I have been in contact mostly with my mom. I try to have kind of one point of contact for my family to just kind of ease how much I am having to do repeating what's happening because they -- there really is no new information.


DONOVAN: Every day, we are in the same kind of situation repetitively. So, I do try to keep my family updated, but I'm spending more of my time connecting with my neighbors and people here who I might actually be able to help in some way.

LEMON: You said potatoes and onions, so lots of French fries and onion rings for folks there.

DONOVAN: I did also have a cabbage, so it was actually turned into potato and cabbage soup.

LEMON: Cabbage soup, yeah. Did you say not the most appetizing?


LEMON: Hey, we wish you well and sorry you are experiencing this, but we appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much, Kelly.

DONOVAN: Thank you. Good night.

LEMON: Thank you. Good night.

Thanks for watching, everyone. Good night. Our coverage continues.