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Don Lemon Tonight
Key Primaries A Test To Trump's Grip; Election Lie Not Dying Yet; New Testimonies For January 6th Hearings; Awkward Meeting Between POTUS And MBS; Republicans And Putin Blamed For The Rising Consumer Prices; Police's Quick Response Saves Lives. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 14, 2022 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Thanks for watching. DON LEMON TONIGHT starts right now. Hey, Don.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hi. Thank you very much, Laura. I will see you again tomorrow evening.
This is DON LEMON TONIGHT.
Results coming in right now in key primary election races all across the country, and we're seeing a test of Donald Trump's grip on the Republican Party. Voters going to the polls one day after dramatic testimony where the January 6th committee showed what went on behind the scenes at the White House after President Trump was told that he lost the election but refused to believe it and instead pushed his election lies.
We are watching two key races in South Carolina. That's where two GOP members of the House are fighting to win renomination, both facing candidates backed by the former president.
Representative Tom Rice is one of 10 House -- one of 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach the former president after the January 6 insurrection at the capitol. Representative Nancy Mace did not vote to impeach Trump but she refused to join the pack of House Republicans who tried to block certification of Joe Biden's victory and has been aligning herself with the former president ever since.
And polls just closed in Nevada where a Trump-backed candidate is running for the Republican Senate nomination. And in South Carolina we're seeing more results coming in. And that's why I have the best of the best with me right now.
Straight away to CNN's chief national correspondent Mr. John King who is at the magic wall and CNN's political director, Mr. David Chalian.
So good to have both of you on. Thank you so much. I'm going start with you, John. Key primaries tonight, polls just closed in Nevada. What's happening there? JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, we look, Don, you
still see this is the Senate Republican primary map in gray. Let me pull this up. We have no votes in in this race. But you mentioned this is a test of Donald Trump's grip.
In Nevada it's also a test of Republican strength. They believe is they get the best candidate tonight. Republicans think they can do some serious business in Nevada come November. They think they can win the governor's race. It's a Democratic incumbent there. They think they can win the Senate race. It's a Democratic incumbent there. They think they can pick up House seats. They have a secretary of state candidate in the Republican primary tonight running on the big lie.
So, there is a lot at stake in Nevada tonight and then in November. Adam Laxalt is Donald Trump's candidate in the Senate primary against army veteran Sam Brown. Adam Laxalt -- Laxalt -- Laxalt, excuse me, from a famous Republican family, he has been a big proponent, still continues to assist to this day that the election in Nevada was off the rails and rigged.
There are zero evidence of that, Don, but that's what Adam Laxalt says. No votes in yet. We'll get them shortly. The polls are now closing and we will see. But this is one Trump was for Laxalt. Sam Brown is a surprisingly strong campaign. A lot of Republicans giving him credit. They expect Laxalt to win, but will become votes soon.
LEMON: All right. South Carolina, John, polls have been closed for a few hours there. Tell us what you're seeing.
KING: So, let's come across. I'm going to switch the map here. The House Republican primaries. I'll bring this up. And you see the state here. You mentioned Tom Rice at the top of the program. He is well behind.
We have not called this yet because we're waiting for votes to come in and it's a House primary. But you can see it right here, an estimate of 96 percent of the vote counted. Russell Fry is endorsed by Trump. Why? Because Tom Rice voted to impeach Donald Trump and Donald Trump was looking for a candidate in a revenge match here, if you will.
The incumbent Tom Rice is getting 25 percent of the vote right now if you round that up. That's pretty depressing for him in a Republican primary on his home turf, a district he's represented since the tea party year in 2012. So, it is 50 percent. If you round that up to 26 at the moment as you see this comes in.
That's one. And so, Trump seems to be winning that grudge match there. We're waiting for the final call. And then you mentioned the second race here. Nancy -- Nancy Mace is a freshman. She did not get to vote in impeachment, but you're right. She was -- at the beginning of her term, harshly critical of Donald Trump saying he had responsibility for January 6th.
She has since tried to say, hey, I can get along with Trump, I can do business with Trump, but she's ahead 57 percent estimated of that vote in. That's a closer race, an eight-point race there right now. Katie Arrington lost in this district before to a Democrat. She is running against Nancy Mace in the prime. Mace is ahead. Still counting votes.
LEMON: David Chalian, as John just laid it out -- laid out in South Carolina Representative Tom Rice and Representative Nancy Mace, they chose different paths on how to navigate this whole Trump issue, right, as they are running. Is it clear yet what Republican voters think of those choices?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, it's clear that Tom Rice is in a heap of trouble. You saw his opponent Russell Fry who Donald Trump has endorsed is at 49.9 percent. If he gets over that 50 percent mark there, he's going to avoid a runoff and just win it outright potentially tonight.
[22:05:03]
So that would be a big deal. And that clearly shows that for the Republican electorate there in that district in South Carolina, the vote to impeach Donald Trump for his behavior in the lead-up to, on the day of and the aftermath of January 6th, well, that is anathema to what they're looking for. That seems pretty clear from the results that are coming in there.
Now you noted there was a different path for Nancy Mace. I mean, she went up to Trump tower in Manhattan and filmed herself in front of it. She is still very much aligning herself with Donald Trump despite not being his preferred candidate. And, you know, you see now a close race there, but Nancy Mace with 57 percent of the vote in is slightly ahead. She's got 53 percent. And perhaps in her district, being Trump aligned but not having his endorsement is good enough to move through here. We have more -- much more counting to do in that district, Don.
LEMON: So, Trump's election lie, David, is front and center in the 1/6 hearings on Capitol Hill. It's also playing a big role in tonight's contest. Can you talk to us more about that?
CHALIAN: Well, it is front and center up on Capitol Hill. I don't know how clear it is how big a role that it's playing. I mean, think about this. The 1/6 committee, a lot of what they're putting forth, while much more in-depth than some new information, a lot of this is the narrative that unfolded in that second impeachment of Trump, the one that Tom Rice actually in the House voted to impeach Donald Trump, voted to get that indictment, if you will, over to the Senate for that trial.
So, the very same issues that the 1/6 committee is putting up front, Tom Rice staked his career on basically and seems to be coming up short tonight. So, these issues are still front and center because so much of the Republican Party is still committed to the notion that the 2020 election wasn't legitimate.
LEMON: John and David, thank you. Standing by, we'll get back in this broadcast if we get some updates. We appreciate that.
Now I want to turn to, I said I had the best of the best, now I had the best of the best of the best. CNN's senior political analyst John Avlon and political commentator Margaret Hoover, host of Firing Line on PBS. And if you heard like some commotion there, that was Margaret dropping her phone.
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, what are you going to do? What are you going to do?
LEMON: How are you guys doing?
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good, man.
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: Good to see.
LEMON: So, anything, John, I'll start with you. Anything you want to add to anything that this gentleman said there?
(CROSSTALK)
AVLON: Yes. You know, I used to live in South Carolina first district. Charleston, South Carolina. It's a very different district than Tom Rice.
LEMON: Yes.
AVLON: Those numbers are tough for Tom Rice, but that is a very, very, very conservative part of the state despite the fact of being coastal. Nancy Mace represents Charleston, South Carolina, surrounding areas. It's more of a swing district.
And even though this is a Republican primary, yes, her vote is not going to be a disqualifier, but you have to say that, you know, Tom Rice is facing a tough penalty for doing the honest thing, which is standing up against a lie.
LEMON: Well, you, look, considering everything that is happening, there's been more than 100 GOP primary winners who backed Trump's false fraud claims and that's according to the Washington Post analysis. So, what are midterms going to look like if that is the price of admission to the GOP?
HOOVER: Yes. Look, what I am looking for and what concerns me most, because especially as we look at the line-by-line of what happened on January 6th and the days following the election, the days following January 6th, is what kind of Republican are we sending back to the House of Representatives? What kind of Republican is getting through the primaries?
And what I'm most concerned about is we're going to have Republicans that support the Constitution that are willing to certify the next presidential election. All right? So not the ones who are buying into the big lie, the ones who have demonstrated that their fealty why they may say it to Donald Trump, when it comes down to voting in the past, their fealty has been to the Constitution.
AVLON: Right.
LEMON: Yes. HOOVER: And that's why, you know, Nancy Mace, her first vote in Congress was to the Constitution, not to Donald Trump. So, while she's been all over the map since then, I suspect that she, if she's forced to make that vote again in 2025 January, she will vote with the Constitution again, whereas I'm not so sure her primary challenger would.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So, are you concerned about that?
AVLON: I am.
LEMON: Is that what voters are concerned about?
HOOVER: No.
LEMON: Because that's the whole point there.
HOOVER: Yes.
AVLON: But, look, I do think at the end of the day defending democracy should be something that United States --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Of course.
AVLON: Obviously, it doesn't, but if you're a constitutional conservative, you should be supporting, you know, the Constitution. I think Margaret does lay out the broader stakes exactly right. Look, you know, that's tough.
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: Democracy.
AVLON: A hundred -- a hundred Republicans who won primary votes back the big lie.
LEMON: Yes.
AVLON: That's problematic. That's -- that's deeply disturbing. But we've also seen a lot of big races where there have been split decisions, Don, like we may be seeing in South Carolina tonight, where Trump-backed wins one -- where Trump-backed candidate wins one race, but a candidate who is standing up to Donald Trump wins another. That's a hopeful sign that there are still some daylight left in the Republican Party for real principles.
[22:10:03]
LEMON: Do you believe that some have some -- what's that phrase.
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: Of course, there is. I mean, Brad Raffensperger --
AVLON: Yes.
HOOVER: -- won his re-election, it was like as though there was no clue that there was a sign that there's daylight and there are people who --
(CROSSTALK)
AVLON: That's a great sign.
HOOVER: Thank you. OK.
AVLON: But don't you think that --
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: Tonight is not your only example.
AVLON: No, no, no. It's not at all.
LEMON: But don't you think that --
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: It's not much.
LEMON: -- Georgia maybe a little bit different than South Carolina, especially if we consider Brad Raffensperger in Atlanta --
HOOVER: No. No question.
LEMON: -- and the huge -- no? No?
HOOVER: No question. They're different states. They're fundamentally different states.
AVLON: But Raffensperger's win was a huge rebuke to Donald Trump.
LEMON: Yes. So, listen, I want to talk about this. Tonight, the 1/6 committee teasing their new hearing on Thursday. A new video clip it said Donald Trump's White House lawyer Eric Herschmann, and he talks about the conversation that he had with conservative attorney John Eastman the day after January 6th. Watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HERSCHMANN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: He started to ask me about something dealing with Georgia and preserving something potentially for appeal. And I said to him, are you out of your effing mind? He said I only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth from now on, orderly transition.
And he said I don't want to hear any more effing words coming out of your mouth no matter what, other than orderly transition. Repeat those words to me. UNKNOWN: And what he said?
HERSCHMANN: Eventually he said orderly transition. He said, good, John, now I'm going to give you the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life, get a great effing criminal defense lawyer, you're going to need it.
LEMON: Wow.
HERSCHMANN: And then I hung up on him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. Herschmann's testimony, how significant is that do you think?
AVLON: Huge.
HOOVER: Wow.
AVLON: Huge, because that just underlies the fact that any -- of any attempt to overturn an election, to derail our democracy by whatever means is a criminal offense. You know, sedition, conspiracy, whatever you want to call it. And that's the White House deputy counsel saying it.
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: And they knew it. And they knew it.
AVLON: Real time.
HOOVER: Yes.
AVLON: Plus, I love the bat that says justice.
LEMON: It is unbelievable to think when you hear that conversation, Margaret, that Eastman was still plotting it, you know, trying to find ways to overturn the election after --
(CROSSTALK)
HOOVER: That was January 7th.
LEMON: Yes.
HOOVER: They just kept going.
LEMON: Yes.
HOOVER: They just kept -- nothing stopped them.
LEMON: He's a key player in all of this.
HOOVER: John Eastman is a seminal player in all of this. I mean, he, and by the way, I mean, John Eastman had clerked for Judge Luttig, Michael Luttig who will be testifying on Thursday.
LEMON: Yes.
HOOVER: He is the one who created the legal argument that Mike Pence hung his hat on for why Pence couldn't overturn the election. So, you actually an internecine feud of conservative legal intelligentsia. By the way, Luttig clerked for Scalia, and so it's just --
LEMON: Yes.
HOOVER: -- real rifts within the conservative -- I mean, it shows you how corrupt the conservative movements really, you know, cowing to Trump, really --
AVLON: That's corrupting.
HOOVER: -- it had such a corrupting and corrosive effect --
LEMON: Yes.
HOOVER: -- on every level of the conservative movement.
LEMON: Yes. well, they just can't quit him. So, listen, let me ask you, two people you know, Rudy Giuliani.
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: Jason Miller.
HOOVER: Do you know him?
LEMON: You worked --
AVLON: I'm familiar with his work.
LEMON: You worked for him, didn't you?
AVLON: I did.
LEMON: OK.
AVLON: For so many years and was proud to be when he was --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So, he is pushing back on these claims by Jason Miller. And by the way, Jason Miller said this was under sworn -- he was under oath, right?
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: This is in sworn testimony saying that Rudy Giuliani was drunk on election night and encouraging Donald Trump to claim victory. What do you think? Rudy Giuliani is pushing back against this. Help us make sense of this. AVLON: First, Jason Miller and Bill Stepien by the way, both worked
for Rudy Giuliani in his '08 presidential campaign where by the way we met.
HOOVER: Where, by the way, we met.
AVLON: OK. So, they know --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You met in '08 at the --
AVLON: Yes.
HOOVER: We met in '06. Because remember --
LEMON: OK, got it.
HOOVER: -- you had your run for president --
LEMON: Because I've known you since then and I'm like, wait a minute.
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: Go on.
AVLON: But the key point is first of all, they both knew Rudy for a long time and they would be an excellent judge of whether or not he was intoxicated. I will say that, you know, for all the time I worked for Rudy, he was not a big drinker. This is a great departure. Rudy's pushback allegedly today was his drink of diet Pepsi.
That also is a lie because he actually like diet Coke the entire time I knew him. But it's clear there's some self-medication problems going on, at least according to people who are witnesses who knew him over the course of his career. These isn't people scoring cheap against Rudy. These are people who liked and admired him enough to work for him at one time. And they are dividing themselves at team normal and team Rudy, which is terrible.
HOOVER: I think it's hard for somebody who is as loyal as John Avlon was for so long to have to give such an honest and sort of unvarnished commentary in somebody.
LEMON: So, you don't know what it is but do you think there's something going on?
AVLON: Look, Rudy Giuliani I know who I worked for, said, to be locked into partisan politics doesn't permit you to think clearly. He's not thinking clearly.
LEMON: That was very eloquent.
AVLON: There you go.
LEMON: Very diplomatic of you. Thank you both. HOOVER: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Good thing, 2006, huh?
AVLON: How about that.
HOOVER: Yes, 2006.
LEMON: Yes. We'll have to talk about that. Thank you.
[22:14:56]
The January 6th committee now set to hold its next hearing on Thursday. It will focus on the former Vice President Mike Pence. But he wasn't asked to testify. We're going to find out why when Congressman Adam Schiff, a member of the committee, joins me. There he is. He's next right after the break.
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LEMON: The January 6th committee releasing new video of Trump lawyer Eric Herschmann explaining how conservative attorney John Eastman was allegedly still trying to challenge the election results even after the insurrection. Now, in the clip, Herschmann asks Eastman if he is out of his effing mind.
Son joining me now, a member of the select committee, Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff from California. He's also the chair of the House intelligence committee. Representative Schiff, we're so happy you're here. Thank you. I appreciate it.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Great to be with you.
LEMON: Son John Eastman is the conservative lawyer who tried to pressure Pence to overturn the election, as you know. Will you be able to prove that Trump was behind this campaign?
SCHIFF: Well, you know, I think we certainly are presenting evidence that the president was the architect of this whole plot to overturn the election with its different elements, elements that included all the litigation, the big lie that drove it all, a pressure campaign on state and local officials. And, as you'll see later this week, the pressure campaign on the vice president.
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He was obviously part and parcel of that issue in his own tweets to pressure the vice president going out to the mall to pressure the vice president. So, the evidence, much of it already in the public eye is powerful and there's more that the public will see this week.
LEMON: So, Thursday's hearing -- it was going to be a, you know, a hearing on Wednesday. but now there is one on Thursday and then there will be others next week, we'll discuss that.
But Thursday's hearing will focus on Mike Pence. Why didn't the committee ask Pence himself to testify or is his chief of staff Marc Short, who was the former vice president on January 6th?
SCHIFF: You know, I'm not at liberty to talk about which witnesses will be testifying, but you know, I can say that in some cases we've gotten the information we need from people in the room. It may not be the principals, but at the same time we're not excluding that the idea of bringing in some of the top people. So, whether they testify this week or not, doesn't exclude the possibility that we bring in other witnesses later.
LEMON: All right. So other members of the select committee have been all over the place on whether you plan to make criminal referrals to the DOJ. You have said that you feel there's credible evidence of criminal activity committed by Trump. So, why wouldn't you do something about that if you indeed believe that?
SCHIFF: Well, as a committee, we may. I think the point is that we're going to conclude the hearings. We'll have a discussion about -- about the evidence, whether to make a referral if we do make a referral, what that referral will be.
To be honest with you, I think there's been much to do about nothing in terms of disagreements within the committee. We really haven't had a chance to talk it through. So, I wouldn't characterize it as disagreements. You know, I would characterize as it is. We haven't that discussion yet, but we will in proper time, and then we'll decide whether to make referrals and what those referrals would look like if we do.
LEMON: So, you haven't discussed this in all your time about criminal referrals?
SCHIFF: You know, I think that individual members have talked to other members about it, but, you know, we've had our focus primarily on doing the investigation, and then of course lately on presenting the evidence during the hearings.
So, we're taking it, you know, one step after another, and I think it was premature before we really had done much of the investigation, let alone concluded it, to be talking about what we would want to refer to the Justice Department.
You know, the exceptions, of course, are when people are in criminal contempt of Congress there. It was patently obvious that we would refer them, and it was just a question of which ones to refer and when. But the broader question, we'll get to it at the appropriate time.
LEMON: So, then what is -- what is the end game here? If you prove Trump or his allies broke the law, but there is no criminal referral, what is the point of this whole investigation? Is it just about setting the record straight?
SCHIFF: No. I mean, there are two different missions here. There's our mission and then there's mission of the Justice Department. Our mission is not a criminal prosecution. We don't have that authority. Our mission is to expose the facts to the public light about a plot to overturn a presidential election, the first nonpeaceful transfer of power we've had in our history, and prescribe remedies, legislative remedies to protect our country going forward.
That's our principal mission. The principal mission of the Justice Department is to bring people to justice who break the law. We can make a referral, but of course the Justice Department doesn't sit around waiting for referrals from us, at least they haven't in the past. I hope they're not simply waiting for us now.
It's their duty to follow the evidence and if there are credible allegations of crime to pursue them against anyone including former presidents. But our mission is quite different. That's not to say again, that we won't make a referral. We may very well do so.
But I would hate to give the public the impression that somehow that's necessary for the Justice Department to do its work or they're waiting for us. They shouldn't be waiting. And if they are, I don't understand why they're departing from what the Justice Department generally does.
LEMON: OK. So then, if you said if they're -- they shouldn't be waiting, do you find at least in what you know enough credible evidence for the Justice Department to act at this moment?
SCHIFF: I certainly believe there's enough evidence for them to open an investigation of several people. And so, as Judge David Carter of California who believes that the former president and others were engaged in likely multiple criminal acts. And so, if the Justice Department concurs with Judge Carter, let alone my own view or others, they should be pursuing that.
[22:24:59]
And so, yes, I think there is sufficient evidence to open an investigation and, you know, it would be up to the Justice Department ultimately to decide does that evidence rise to proof beyond a reasonable doubt such that they're comfortable indicting someone.
But there's certainly, in my view, enough evidence to open up investigations.
LEMON: As the chairman of the House intelligence committee, I got to get your take on President Biden's trip to Saudi Arabia in July after promising to turn the country into the pariah of the Middle East. We're also told that he's going to meet with the man intelligence officials say is responsible for the brutal murder of Jamal Khashoggi. Is this a mistake?
SCHIFF: I think it is. I wouldn't go. I wouldn't shake his hand. I want nothing to do with him. And I understand the president has to deal with a whole variety of difficult issues, but I wouldn't go. This is someone who, you know, was involved in the premeditated murder and dismemberment of a U.S. resident, a journalist, who has a terrible human rights record.
And it just goes to show you how, you know, the need for fossil fuels so distorts our foreign policy and causes us act in ways not consistent with our values. You know, if you had another argument on top of the fact that we're destroying the planet for weaning ourselves off foreign oil but off fossil fuels altogether.
LEMON: Representative Schiff, always a pleasure to have you. Thank you, sir.
SCHIFF: Thank you. Great to be with you.
LEMON: Prices are high. Are they about to get higher? I'm going to ask the former treasury secretary who predicted inflation would be a problem while everyone else said it would just be a blip. That's next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Look, it's the news. We didn't say it was good news. It's the news, OK, that we report every day. Stocks taking another tumble today as President Joe Biden acknowledged during a speech in Philadelphia that inflation is sapping the strength of a lot of families, and he reiterated that inflation continues to be his administration's biggest focus. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The problem is, Republicans in Congress are doing everything they can to stop my plans to bring down costs on ordinary families. That's why my plan is not finished and why the results aren't finished either. Jobs are back, but prices are still too high. COVID is down, but gas prices are up. Our work isn't done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So he says he's got a plan to bring down the cost of gas and food, but it is going to take some time. How much time? Joining me now, the former treasury secretary, Larry Summers.
Larry, thank you for joining. I appreciate it. I have to say that, Larry, you predicted this. And there were a lot of folks who were doubting you, but you were right about this one.
LARRY SUMMERS, FORMER U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Yes, I wish I had not been, Don, and I hope that the president will prove correct and will see inflation come down as rapidly as possible. I'm glad that the Fed appears to be stepping up to act very strongly with respect to inflation risks. I think that is a step in the right direction.
I think if we can pass a meaningful bill that raises taxes to reduce excess demand, that reduces pharmaceutical prices, that can contribute to a further reduction in inflation. I think if we can reduce tariffs where those tariffs aren't strategic and are hurting us, but not doing much to the Chinese, I think that can make a meaningful contribution to reducing inflation.
But I think it's going to take time to put out this fire, and it's going to burn for a while, and it's not going to be completely comfortable while we are putting out the fire. That's just a consequence of the situation we find ourselves in.
LEMON: Let me just put -- give people a snapshot of the moment that we're in right now. There is a record high inflation. Gas prices is averaging $5 a gallon, the stock market is tumbling into a bear market. Consumer goods are rising at the fastest pace in four decades.
That is really the reality. But you said there are things that we can do, Larry, and you said including legislation and there are things that the president can actually do as well. But it's going to take some time.
Listen, when I had you here in late April, we talked about this when you were predicting this. And we talked about how long it would possibly last. You said it's going to inflation. It's going to be a while. How long are we going to be with inflation this high?
SUMMERS: I would be -- I'd be very surprised if we didn't still have inflation at a meaningful rate a year from now. It may well come down. I think it's probably likely to come down from the 8 percent plus range that it's been at, but we're still going to have inflation for quite some time. And we're probably going to have a slowing economy as well, so there's going to be an element of what people call stagflation in our situation.
[22:35:01]
But, look, Don, what we need to do as a country is not shed tears over where we are. We need to roll up our sleeves and address the problems, and that means doing things to control demand, to make life more affordable by -- for families by reducing pharmaceutical prices, by doing everything we can to increase energy supplies, by doing what we can with respect to maintaining the flow of goods into the country, by getting rid of nonstrategic tariffs so we can bring down prices.
And we need to be patient and we need to look beyond the near-term economic distress to build the greatest economy that there's ever been --
LEMON: Yes.
SUMMERS: -- by strengthening our infrastructure, by taking account of the remarkable technological progress that there has been. We can do things. It's not going to be easy, but, you know, Don, I spent a lot of time traveling and talking to economists from people in other parts of the world, and I'd rather have our challenges than the challenges facing Europe or Japan.
And I'd rather have almost anybody's challenges than the challenges that are facing China right now with what's happening with the COVID lockdowns, with all the financial problems, with the average woman having only one child, with everything they're dealing with in terms of real estate.
LEMON: I got you. I understand, listen -- (CROSSTALK)
SUMMERS: Som I think we need to look forward.
LEMON: I think people are - listen, I think people agree with that. But the question is, you know, for most people -- and you can certainly understand that -- it's the immediate moment. When you, you know, it's a challenge to buy gas to get to work, when it's a challenge to get baby formula, that is all happening in the moment right now. I must ask you about a recession. Go on, please.
SUMMERS: Yes. Look, you're right. Gasoline is mostly about President Putin's naked aggression. And if we want to not have these kinds of problems again, we're going to have to stand up firmly to that naked aggression. I did (Inaudible) --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But do you see a recession in our future?
SUMMERS: -- that's happened is the way the NATO alliance has stood together. I think we are likely to have a recession. I think we have overheated the economy and gotten some bad luck. When the pendulum swings too far one way, it tends to swing back the other way.
So, I think we are likely to have a recession sometime in the next two years. And we're just going to need to work through that recession if it comes. If we try to avoid it and we tried to not do it, that I think is the very real risk that we will return to an episode of inflation into an era of inflation.
LEMON: OK, let me ask you --
SUMMERS: And that would be a costly era.
LEMON: I got to ask you this before -- before I have to go because I have to -- I have a lot to get to here. The stocks are down again today. We're bracing for a Fed rate hike. That could be the biggest since 1994. That will certainly impact Americans and mortgage rates and car loans and credit cards and whether people can buy homes and so forth.
Will that help with inflation? What do you -- what do you think of that and how long are we going to be in this period where we have these high interest rates where people -- because, you know, most of Americans' wealth is in their homes? So how long do you expect this?
SUMMERS: Don, I think we're going to be raising interest rates for quite some time to come. I think we got to remember that while we've been through a period of remarkably low interest rates --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Quite some time meaning for how long do you think?
SUMMERS: Well, rates that we're talking about, it's not something that's really terribly atypical in the context of the last -- of the last generation. My guess is we're going to have mortgage rates perhaps in the 5 percent range for several years from now.
But I think that is something that people will be able to manage, and it may be that it will contribute to some movement downwards in a red- hot housing market. That's fine for people like me who own homes, but it's a big challenge for people who are looking to buy their first homes.
[22:40:08]
LEMON: Yes. Well, listen, at least you have a positive perspective about it. Glass half full, as you're delivering this news. Larry Summers, we appreciate having you. Come back, please. We appreciate it.
SUMMERS: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you.
We're watching election results closely tonight. John King is at the magic wall for us and he is going to have an update right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: As promised an update now on today's key primary election race. He's back with us at the magic wall, Mr. John King. John, hello again. You're watching the numbers come in. What's the latest?
KING: And I'm watching something, Don, that seems eerily familiar. Nevada the polls are closed at 10 o'clock in the east. I'm going to pull the Senate primary. There's a list of candidates. What do you notice about this map? Still no votes. No votes. I could show you the governor's primary, still no votes.
[22:45:02]
In the 2020 presidential election, remember election night was Tuesday just like this primary night. It was Friday before we called Nevada in 2020. Let's hope it doesn't take that long to count the votes this time but these are key primaries.
This is the Senate primary. Donald Trump endorsed Adam Laxalt. He is a big lie proponent trying to run -- to win the Senate nomination in a seat Republicans think they can pick up in the fall.
That Senate race in Nevada, Don, it could be one of those two or three to decide which party controls the Senate come January. But nothing yet in Nevada in any of those races. Republicans also think they can pick up House seats.
So, let's move over to South Carolina which is what we've been watching all night. Two Trump grudge matches on the ballot in South Carolina. One of them is right here in the 7th district. Russell Fry is Trump's candidate. Why? Because the incumbent Tom Rice voted to impeach Donald Trump. Tom Rice says he's proud of that vote, he says he stands by that vote and he's prepared to be retired if necessary. well, we're not there yet. We're still counting.
But not only is Russell Fry way ahead, 51 percent to 25 percent. If you round up the 51 is important. You have to be above 50, Don, 50 plus one to avoid a runoff in the state of South Carolina. That's the 7th district.
Now let's move down to the first district. Nancy Mace, again, this is a much closer race. She is the incumbent. Donald Trump wants her defeated as well. He endorsed Katie Arrington because Nancy Mace early on especially says some harsh things about Donald Trump on January 6th. She's at 53 percent, 45 percent, sorry, I just moved over to the next district by accident there. I'll come back to it here. Fifty- three, 45 at about 70 -- 77 percent, so still counting. But again, Nancy Mace above 50. That would mean she's the candidate if she holds that lead, Don.
LEMON: All right. John King, thank you. I appreciate it, sir.
A gunman in Texas shooting at a summer camp filled with 250 children and staff. A man trying to forcibly get into an elementary school in Alabama. Both stopped by quick action from law enforcement. Those stories are next.
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: He's in. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell indicating today he is a yes vote on the bipartisan gun package senators have been negotiating for weeks now, if the bill lines up with the framework announced on Sunday. It's something Americans have been demanding since a gunman opened fire in an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, killing 19 children and two teachers.
Unfortunately, there have been more incidents of gunmen targeting children since that massacre, but thankfully those incidents were stopped by police officers who acted quickly.
CNN's Josh Campbell has the story now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Parents in Texas just grateful to hold their children after police rushed to a north Texas sports field house where summer camp was being held and shot a gunman threatening the camp. Police in Duncanville, Texas near Dallas say they exchanged gunfire with a man who opened fire at the camp on Monday where some 250 children age 4 to 14 and staff were present, some hiding.
UNKNOWN: He had texted me and said mom, I think someone entered the field house with a gun.
CAMPBELL: When the gunman entered the building police say camp counsellors began moving the children to a safe area and locking doors. AUTUMN HARRIS, SUMMER CAMPER: We went in a room and then we heard
shooting. And then we got scared and everybody started crying. They just told us to stay quiet. We were in the men's room. So, there were showers in there so we hid in the showers.
UNKNOWN: I was praying to God just so nothing would happen.
CAMPBELL: Police shot and killed the gunman. No children, staff, or officers were hurt according to officials.
UNKNOWN: Upon hearing that gunshot they did what they were trained to do, the counsellors. They moved the kids to a safe area and began locking the doors. The suspect went to a classroom, was unable to get inside, and did fire one round inside the classroom where there were children inside.
UNKNOWN: There was no hesitation. No hesitation whatsoever. We're thankful for their training that they do exactly what they're trained to do.
CAMPBELL: In Alabama just last week a man was shot and killed by a school resource officer after police say he attempted to enter an elementary school where 34 children were attending a summer literacy camp. Law enforcement said he was also trying to forcibly enter a patrol vehicle and was killed after an altercation with the officer at the school.
JONATHON HORTON, SHERIFF, ETOWAH COUNTY, ALABAMA: He went straight to the threat, he confronted it, and dealt with it. And it ended in, unfortunately, the death of the suspect but that's the safest alternative, to keep that threat out of that school.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL: And Don, it's been three weeks since that deadly shooting in Uvalde, Texas and there are still several questions that law enforcement hasn't answered about their response on that day, particularly these reports that they were treating the situation as a barricaded subject rather than an active shooter.
Compare that with these two examples we just brought you from Alabama and the Dallas area. Those are how law enforcement is supposed to respond, to go toward the sound of gunfire to try to stop a threat.
Of course, it's also worth pointing out that in the case of the Dallas suburb camp incident it's not just police who are being applauded for their response but authorities also praising the camp counsellors for quickly springing into action trying to get those kids to safety as the shots rang out. Don?
LEMON: Josh Campbell, thank you very much.
Primary election results are coming in. John King is back at the magic wall with the latest numbers right after this.
[22:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: It is primary election night in America. Polls just closing in Nevada. We're also getting results in from South Carolina where Trump's election lie is front and center in key races one day after a dramatic day of testimony on Capitol Hill and the January 6th committee is out tonight promising much more to come. We're going to tell you about that in just a moment.
But first, we want to get the primary results. CNN's John King at the magic wall and Kyung Lah is in North Las Vegas for us. They both joined us now.
Kyung, good evening to you. You're at a tabulation center where all the voters are -- the votes are coming in, I should say. We have been waiting for some results now. Are you seeing any? What are you seeing there?
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we're seeing and I'm going to have my cameraman, Bill Maloy (Ph) just take a quick look over my shoulder. You see these carts and the boxes that are on top of them. These are actually cartridges that are coming in from the various polling centers, vote centers, and then they will go to the people sitting at these various, long tables where they will be -- all that data will be uploaded and then sent to the elections board over in Clark County and then that will be tabulated and then we're going to start seeing the results.
So, these are the very, very first, just in the last 60 seconds or so, Don, that we -- that started to come in. We are specifically looking at what is going to be happening in the GOP primary for the U.S. Senate.
[23:00:00]
It is essentially a two-man race.
