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Don Lemon Tonight

First-Degree Murder Filed Against Highland Shooter; Horrific Experience Remains In Memory; Court Needs Strong Evidence; Bipartisan Law Not Making A Dent; Trump Allies Subpoenaed By House Committee. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired July 05, 2022 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: That's going to do it for us tonight. Thank you for being with us. DON LEMON TONIGHT starts right now with Laura Coates filling in for Don. Hi, Laura.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Hey, Kasie. Thank you so much.

This is DON LEMON TONIGHT. And I'm Laura Coates, and I'm in for the great Don Lemon.

And it's a night unfortunately when America is reeling, reeling as we have again and again and, sadly, again. We're facing yet again the unthinkable. This time, the mass shooting at the Fourth of July parade in Highland Park, Illinois. The death toll has now risen to seven. That's seven people doing just about the most American thing you could do, celebrating Independence Day. Their lives were cut short in just minutes.

Vice President Kamala Harris visiting the scene of the shooting tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The whole nation should understand and have a level of empathy to understand that this can happen anywhere, in any peace-loving community, and we should stand together and speak out about why it's got to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The suspected shooter has now been charged with seven counts of first-degree murder. And if he's convicted, he faces a mandatory life sentence without the possibility of parole. But that's likely not it. His attorney says that he anticipates dozens more charges in the future in the wake of the terrifying scene, truly terrifying, at yesterday's parade.

You can imagine thinking at first, they may have been fireworks, only to find out there was actual gunshots happening at a Fourth of July parade. Now, that person you see on the screen there, that's who the police say is the suspect who dressed in women's clothing in an attempt to blend in with the crowd and make his escape.

Now, he was captured, and he was arrested just hours later. They say they're seeking a witness now that they believe saw the suspect draw -- drop a rifle after the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER COVELLI, DEPUTY CHIEF, LAKE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: We're very certain that there was a female witness who saw Crimo drop an object inside of a red blanket behind Ross's at 625 Central Avenue immediately following the shooting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, they're asking that witness, whoever it is, to please contact the FBI. But the deadly violence at the Fourth of July parade is frankly more heartbreaking and the more information we learn. A two-year-old found alone after the shooting. Both of his parents, we've learned, have been killed. He's being cared for by his surviving family. We know of a father putting his child and his little brother in a dumpster to protect them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We ran behind the building, and I put my son in a dumpster, and he sat there with his dog, and I went back to look for the rest of my family. I left them with someone there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: You have a grandfather who was shot to death in front of his family, another at the age of 88 years old, described by his family as not ready to go, a former preschool teacher losing her life. Blankets and strollers and folding chairs left where they landed as shots rang out and people ran for their lives.

And that's the horrible reality in this country tonight. Americans and our loved ones forced to run for our lives as shots ring out anywhere, at any time.

I want to bring in CNN's Miguel Marquez live for us in Highland Park. Miguel, the suspect has now been charged with seven counts of first- degree murder. We know that he had at least two prior interactions with the police officers at some point in time. What can you tell us about him?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that authorities are saying this was certainly premeditated, that he planned this for over quite some time, not only the act itself but also the escape. You mentioned he dressed as a -- in a woman's clothing at one point after the shooting in order to evade police.

There were two incidents back in 2019, one where he had threatened to kill members of his family, the other where he was threatening suicide. In the one where he threatened to kill members of his family, it is interesting because police did go to his door and check to see what was going on.

[22:05:03]

There were knives in the house that they wanted -- they took away initially, say authorities, but then later in the day, the father of this shooter -- or suspected shooter -- says that the knives were his. They were in a case. He was keeping them. And the police say they gave those knives back to the father. Here's what police here in Highland Park say about why they couldn't do more on those incidents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COVELLI: The police responded there. Police can't make an arrest unless there is probable cause to make an arrest or somebody is willing to sign complaints regarding the arrest. Absent of those things, the police don't have power to detain somebody.

Now, if there is an issue where there is the necessity to involuntarily commit somebody to the hospital, that's an option. But that wasn't an option at that time. It didn't fall in that category. But nonetheless, Highland Park police did notify the Illinois state police of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: So, there is a double shock here, the shock of what has happened just down the street here, and then the shock of realizing that we see these things so often. And when we see them and they happen and we go back and we look at them, we realize all the red flags were there. All the signs were there, and they just weren't picked up.

So why was he able to buy guns? Why wasn't there a police record? Why was he able to get a license to purchase those guns? Why were the knives returned? How did he get money to buy guns? All these questions now being raised. When you look at his social media, it is very clear that this was somebody who was detaching from society, that this was somebody who was indicating very, very extreme thoughts, and whether it was family or friends, it just never came to the surface. Laura?

COATES: Miguel, you know, I can't help but note that the number of questions you asked were the number of victims here. Seven people's lives lost. I mean two of the victims we know about, Irina and Kevin McCarthy, they're right there on the screen right now. I mean, they're the parents of a two-year-old who was found alive after this shooting.

I mean, I don't know what this child saw, how he was separated, whether he has been told or understands about the loss of his parents. I mean he's two years old. It's unbelievably devastating to think about this child alone, and how did he get to authorities? Do we know anything more about that?

MARQUEZ: It is hard to talk about this. We know he is well cared for now. We had a producer who was able to get there and actually laid eyes on the child. He's with grandparents at the moment, and they are doing what they can. Hopefully he did not see much.

But the idea that this family, along with the town, came to a festival here, to a celebration of this nation's birth, and that two-year-old left without parents, shocking, beyond. Laura.

COATES: It's hard to even find the words. Miguel, thank you for being there and giving us everything we need to know. And it's just -- there's so many questions unanswered as you've already articulated.

I want to bring in Bradley Hansen because he was there. He survived the shooting along with his family.

Bradley, first of all, I'm very glad that you are here. I know that some time -- not much, but some time has passed right now, and I have to understand how are you coping right now? How are you dealing with the fact that you were so close to what happened and that lives were lost?

BRADLEY HANSEN, WITNESS TO HIGHLAND PARK SHOOTING: Thank you, Laura. Thank you for having me. Really it changes by the moment. There's anger. There's confusion. There's grief. There's a sense of loss and a sense where I woke up a different person yesterday than I am today, and I'm still learning. And everyone in my family is still learning who we are and who we're going to be in the days ahead.

We're thankful that we're safe, and there's that deep grief for the people and the victims, those who were killed, those who were injured, especially the family of Nicolas Toledo, who is right -- they were right behind us, unthinkable the things that happened in our community and right in our own backyard.

COATES: You know, for so many people who are hearing about what you've heard, I suspect in the most recent weeks, let alone months, let alone years, you likely have been the person watching from the audience as these reports are coming, as we're having these conversations on television. This happened now where you are. I know you woke up a different person.

The idea that it happened so close to home and, in fact, Bradley, you were sitting with friends when the gunshots rang out. You had to shield your infant son in his stroller. Tell me about that moment.

[22:10:08]

HANSEN: It was -- it was -- it all happened so fast. When the first burst of shots rang out, my first thought was someone was lighting off firecrackers in the crowd. And then you could tell just the sound of it was gunfire. People started diving, and I dove to the ground and pulled my son over top, and just that sense of helplessness, laying on the ground, covering my son, trying to cover behind a curb, just waiting for the shooter to step to us at any moment, waiting for more shots, more screams.

It's one of those things that is sadly not an anomalous experience in American life. It's devastating, but it isn't anything new or rare, and that just tears me up. COATES: Hearing you say that, the idea of just thinking about the

prevalence, thinking about this and also maybe not realizing you have another child who was there as well. I mean, she's six years old, I understand, and your wife was able to care for her, and you were able to reconnect later, thank God.

But how do you explain this all to your daughter? I mean I have an eight-year-old and a nine-year-old. I remember six not too long ago. They're aware of what's happening around them. They're aware to some degree about your emotions and your facial expressions and what they're seeing. How do you explain it to her?

HANSEN: Yes. We're -- we're at a loss right now. We're seeking -- we're seeking counsel. We're seeking help. But watching her slowly remember, slowly ask questions, put things together, why were the balloons breaking? Were they real bullets? What -- just as things are coming back, we're still unsure the extent of her trauma. It's unimaginable, and we're taking it step by step.

COATES: I mean, just those questions alone and thinking about it, as you're looking and hearing about the reports and more information is coming out about what has transpired -- and I'm sure there will be more to come -- I'm sure you've heard about the young toddler whose parents have passed because of what happened and the evil that transpired.

And as you're trying to process this, I know that you are grateful to be alive. I know that you're thinking of your family. But I can already tell just from your spirit that it must be difficult to even contemplate what has happened to them.

HANSEN: I -- I can't fathom -- I can't fathom what their family is going through. I can't imagine the loss that that child has experienced before their 3rd birthday is unbelievable just horrific. It continuously tears me up. The more we learn, the more victims' names are released, it's unspeakable tragedy.

COATES: I think it's important, as you've spoken about, I mean, we -- we know the names of seven victims who lost their lives, but countless others, their lives have been impacted as you have talked about and experienced and what you're going through. And I just wonder what is your message right now to our legislators, to our world? Do you have the words to try to convey what you're feeling and what you want them most to know?

HANSEN: We need change. Too many of these have happened. They have not moved the needle one bit. I fear that this is going to be yet another in that list of things that are ignored or barely, barely bring about change. But for the sake of our country, for the sake of our children, we owe them more.

As Americans, as citizens, if we love our country, if we love our families, we owe them safety and a freedom that isn't cheap autonomy, and a liberty that isn't just a rampant selfishness to just do whatever you want with no regard for your fellow citizens.

We need a full sense of freedom and justice, and we need preventative -- strong preventative measures.

[22:14:59]

It's not enough to respond and grieve these things. We must actively work to fight and stop them because they're happening over and over again, and it is on us every time.

COATES: Bradley, thank you so much. I'm very sorry for what you and your family are enduring, and as a mother, I keep thinking about how I would even begin to answer the questions that your little one is asking. And I'm just so sorry that you're experiencing this and the world is seeing this yet again. Thank you.

HANSEN: Thank you.

COATES: It's on all of us, he just said. Every time it happens, it's on all of us.

Well, next, former FBI experts are going to weigh in on what we've learned about the suspect and the case against him so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC RINEHART, LAKE COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY: There will be more charges. We anticipate dozens of more charges centering around each of the victims, psychological victims, physical victims, attempt murder charges, aggravated discharge charges, aggravated battery charges. There will be dozens of more charges against Mr. Crimo.

[22:20:00]

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COATES: The Chicago suburb of Highland Park is in mourning tonight following the deadly mass shooting at a July 4th parade. Seven people were killed, dozens more injured. And as you heard about the psychological victims, the physical victims from the state attorney, who says they have charged the suspected shooter now with seven counts of first-degree murder.

And if he is convicted, the charges could lead to a mandatory life sentence. For more, I want to bring in former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe and former FBI assistant director for the criminal investigative division, Chris Swecker.

Gentlemen, I have to tell you, I am glad that you are here to talk to me about this, but I am so tired of having this conversation with you, as so many people are. We hear about these shootings time and time again. This is an opportunity, however, when we have somebody who is actually living who is a suspect, who has charges already pending against him.

I want to begin with you, Andrew, because they're pretty serious charges that are there. I mean, first-degree murder is nothing to sneeze at, and many more could be on the way. I didn't yet hear them talk about any federal charges. These are at the state level at this point in time. What is your assessment in terms of the strength of the case against this person so far?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it's really interesting, Laura. So, of course, first-degree murder charge is a very serious charge. If he's convicted on any of those, he'll spend the rest of his life in jail.

I think from the request that the police put out today about looking for a particular witness who allegedly observed the shooter deposit his rifle into a barrel or secrete it somewhere, that indicates to me that they're having a little bit of a struggle tying him exactly to the shooting on the roof.

So obviously they have circumstantial evidence to prove that case. They have the gun, which forensics will prove shot the bullets that killed those individuals, and that gun is registered to Robert Crimo. But what they would like to have is a witness who saw him use the gun, saw him climbing up to the roof with the gun in his hands, and it sounds like they don't have that right now if their request for this one particular witness to make themselves, you know, to come forward is any indication.

COATES: Yes.

MCCABE: So that could be a weakness in that case.

COATES: But I hear he's also talking to investigators. He's being -- I don't know if cooperative is the right word. I look at that as a prosecutor very differently. The word cooperation and what it would mean to me versus perhaps laymen thinking about this term.

MCCABE: Yes.

COATES: But Chris, I mean, they think he's been planning it for weeks, this. I mean, it's obviously if that's the case, it's obviously premeditated which has fallen first-degree murder. He wore women's clothing to conceal his identity and leave with the crowd if that's the case as well.

But Andrew makes a good point about the idea of if they're looking for a witness here and he is talking to investigators, what more are they asking about, and what else will they look at? Is it social media? Is it discussions with his family members? Can they rely on his words alone? What would you look for?

CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: Sure, they can rely on his statement, and I'm they've tried to take one from him and that with other circumstances here, there's going to be video on fixed locations and video from the spectators at the parade.

I think at the end, there's going to be an overwhelming amount of evidence here, not just of the premeditation but also of the fact that he was, in fact, the shooter. They had enough probable cause to arrest him, and that's a lower standard, of course.

But it is a standard, and he's under arrest. He has eight criminal charges filed on him now. I don't see any impediment here to building a very strong case against him. And that's what's happening in the background now. You've got investigative analysts, you got agents, you got detectives. You've got a lot to work with here. I just don't see there being a weak case coming out of this.

COATES: Now, here we are on the -- unfortunately the back end of this extraordinary tragedy, but we're learning about things that happened before, Andrew. The idea of other 2019 interactions, the idea of a potential -- or an attempted suicide, a threat to kill his family members, knives being taken away, a sword.

You know, the mayor told CNN that she is looking forward to an explanation as to why Illinois state police gave him a firearm card even after hearing this information. Now, they have said that he passed four background checks. I wonder what you make of the fact that he's able to buy a gun after all of that.

MCCABE: You know, Laura, the sad thing is that the state of the gun laws in this country are that you can go through episodes like that and still not have hit the point where you no longer are qualified to purchase a firearm.

[22:25:01]

In neither of those instances was he adjudicated a mental defective, which would be one of the -- one of the disqualifiers under the Brady law. He didn't have any felony convictions. He wasn't dishonorably discharged from the military.

So, unless you fit into one of those very specific categories in the law, you're going to pass the background check even if police officers were summoned to your house because your parents were worried and they seized all of your knives.

The bigger question is why they didn't pursue a notification under the red flag laws. They have said they didn't do that because he didn't have any guns at the time. Nevertheless, this any made an application to a judge in that September '19 episode, he may have been excluded from purchasing a weapon for some period of time.

So, I do think there's more questions to be answered there. But at the end of the day, this is a commentary on how generally weak the gun laws are in this country.

COATES: Chris, my last question to you on this because, you know, when I think about the arguments that are often made to undermine either red flag laws or conversations around background checks and the second amendment, of course, it's the idea that almost reminds you of that movie with Tom Cruise, "Minority Report," about the pre cogs. And before a crime is committed people are assuming they're going to (Inaudible) different.

And so, you're almost infringing rights before anything real has happened or anything behavior-wise has occurred. They describe him -- his former classmates -- as withdrawn and odd. I mean, he posted some violent imagery online as well. When you have that and there's not this sort of red flags that Andrew

is talking about that were really codified in some way and don't have the motive necessarily, is there a way to prevent and deter and be proactive as law enforcement about this? I mean, 2019 is still three years ago. Is there a way for us to get ahead of these things?

SWECKER: I think that's exactly what these red flag laws are designed to do. Not all the states have it, but I took the time to look up the Illinois red flag law, and a family member can apply for it. A law enforcement officer can apply for it.

It seems to me there were enough facts and circumstances here that would have warranted that in 2019. The question is whether it would have endured through 2022. But all the indicators were there. He doesn't have to own firearms. The law allows them to prevent him from purchasing firearms or to take away a firearm's permit if he has one.

So, I don't -- you know, I don't see how the red flag law here would not have applied. I think this was a set of circumstances where you could have very much proactively gone out and took preventative action to, you know, to get into the area of being proactive as opposed to sitting back and waiting for something bad to happen.

COATES: Well, we are a nation of laws. You gentlemen know that better than anyone, and partly is to deter the behavior. We'll see and get the answers we need because we've got a lot of questions still. Thank you so much for both of you joining me here tonight.

We also know that a bipartisan gun bill passed in D.C. But this national epidemic of gun violence is still very much here. When will we be free of it all? I'll make my case next.

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COATES: Remember those days when going out just came down to figuring out if you wanted to deal with the hassle of being in public? Maybe the only kinds of questions you asked yourself were, do I feel like dealing with a crowd or looking for parking? I mean you expect some headache. It's part of the price you pay to make the memories, I guess.

But now millions of people are dealing with the reality that we have come to expect gun violence when we go out, or at least the potential for that gun violence. And frankly, it's affecting the way that people even live their live lives, the choices they make.

I can't lie, it factors into my decisions about where to take my own children. It's a struggle to not let the terror of it all win, to not have to revisit the plan that my husband and I had to lay out in case of an emergency. Which parent will take which child? What's the meeting spot in case we're separated? The agreement not to go back for one another and just get the kids to safety, maybe the hope that our children will remember to run if we, ourselves, are hurt. All of this planning, all of these thoughts because of pervasive,

frequent, unrelenting gun violence. I remember when I first took my kids to watch the fireworks, and none of us parents were watching the fireworks as they were. We were watching our kids watch them just to try to see what the world looked like through their eyes.

And now when we go out, our heads are on swivels, assessing the continuous threat that is as unpredictable as it is everywhere.

[22:34:54]

And last night I watched my own kids watching the fireworks, and they were naive to the fact that, well, places of worship and, to some extent, schools and grocery stores and theaters and now parades, they were no longer immune.

And the great, tragic irony of it all was that even on the day that we celebrated our nation's independence, the land of the free and the home of the brave, that was still not free from the terror of a mass shooting.

And what's bursting in air only gives proof through the night that our national epidemic of gun violence is still very much here. And this, by the way, is with the new legislation. So, what now? When will we feel that freedom?

I want to bring in CNN political commentators Paul Begala and Alice Stewart.

And I had to tell you both, we've all had these conversations in the past as well, and we continue to have them about these ideas of how we live under this constant sword of Damocles.

And, Paul, I mean, listen to this. Look at this picture of a Lake County police officer. He's in Highland Park. He's holding his head in utter shock and despair. I mean there have been 319 mass shootings just this year and 17 in the first four days of July.

I mean you're talking about parade, bars, a hospital, a grocery store. I mean the violence, as I've talked about, it's like it's fundamentally altering how we live our lives. So, I wonder from your perspective, Paul, what needs to happen for that to no longer be the case?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it was a hopeful first step, a small step, but the first time in almost 30 years that Congress passed any kind of gun safety law. And enough Republicans, God bless them, came along with it. John Cornyn from Texas, my home state. That's a hopeful sign. It was necessary but not sufficient. Boy, was it not sufficient? We know that.

I think the problem here frankly is fear. Politicians, and let's be honest, Republican politicians, are fearful. I think it's a myth that people say the NRA is all-powerful. You know, 84 percent of gun owners are not members of the NRA. By the way, I am a gun owner and a hunter and I'm not in the NRA.

Those knuckle heads don't speak for me or most responsible gun owners. But the politicians in the Republican Party are afraid. They're afraid of their base. If we could show them -- if everybody who says in a poll, yes, look, I want red flag laws, I want to ban assault weapons. High-capacity magazines are only good for mass shooters.

If we would back those politicians up with our votes, let's see what happens in this midterm election. You know, it's Willie Nelson, my friend, my hero, a great singer in Texas has a song. He says, if you don't like what they're doing, vote them out. It is as simple as that. We're less than 200 days from an election. If we really want change, we have to be the change that we seek in the world.

COATES: Alice, is he right? I mean, part of this, you know, the idea of democracy not being a spectator sport, I absolutely agree with. The NRA and other gun lobbyists, though, have seemingly been quite powerful over a long period in at least modern American history. I wonder the impact they've had in your mind in terms of either Republican voters or Republican members of Congress on this very issue. I mean, should there have been more included, and is it possible to have that now?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, let me first start off by saying, Laura, I got chills listening to your monologue you just gave about you and your husband having a plan when you take your kids out as to what you would do in that situation and not returning to the location and making sure your children are safe.

And sadly, parents across the country are having similar conversations, and it's -- we don't need to continue to have those conversations, so I think it is important to have talks about what can be done.

Look, I think the Safe Communities Act is a very important first step. I think it's critical that we not only enact laws to prevent gun violence but make sure that we do everything we can that they are implemented.

Look, the red flag law is part of the Safe Communities Act. Look, that would have applied in this case, textbook case. This shooter in this case, his social media posts, his comments, his actions, he is a mass shooting suspect time bomb ready to explode, and no one reported it. No one raised the red flag.

Law enforcement, as you mentioned, Laura, were called to his home twice in 2019, and he still was able to purchase a gun. I think the fact that the Safe Communities Act put $750 million to help states implement that is a good first step. But we can't just pass laws. We have to implement them.

And we also must look at the mental health component of this and also the expanded background checks on 18 to 21-year-olds is critical. That's a big part of this. But so much emphasis is often put on the guns.

[22:39:55]

Look, we cannot just look at the objects here. We need to look at the offenders. And the more we can look at offenders in this case and the mental health and using these red flags to prevent these is a very good first step.

I'm not opposed to looking at curtailing AR assault rifles to those under 21, but it's an important conversation that needs to be had by Republicans and Democrats in Washington.

COATES: See, Paul? I mean, the idea of more reasonable Republicans. Alice Stewart is a case in point, there you go right there on this very notion that makes your point. But you spoke about implementation, both of you.

Everyone should be aware that Highland Park actually did try to implement their own assault weapons ban. It went to the Supreme Court, and this is an instance where even the best-laid plans, they say, of mice and men came to this in some respect. Thank you both. I appreciate it.

STEWART: Thanks, Laura.

BEGALA: Thanks, Laura.

COATES: Well, a grand jury is investigating the former president, Donald Trump, and some of his closest allies are now being subpoenaed. Stay with us for more.

[22:45:00]

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COATES: New developments in the investigation into then-President Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in Georgia. Court filings revealing a special grand jury has subpoenaed some of Trump's inner circle, including his former attorney, Rudy Giuliani, and South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham.

Joining me now to discuss, former U.S. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general Harry Litman. Harry, nice to see you today. This is pretty big news, the fact that there is, one, obviously we know there's a special grand jury. But perhaps many have thought about a Rudy Giuliani in the mix of things. But Senator Lindsey Graham is also on this list right now. Tell me what you think of when you think about how this investigation is unfolding. Is it surprising?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, sort of. I mean, she's casting as wide a net as the January 6th committee, so when you think of Georgia and what she's investigating, you think of that call with Raffensperger, the one that the January 6th committee detailed.

But here she's called this and said she had to submit this to a judge, who had to OK it because these seven people are from out of state, that we're talking about a multi-state, coordinated campaign to influence the results in Georgia and elsewhere. That's a very broad net, and it starts, as you say, with Lindsey

Graham and November 13th and really goes all the way to Pence. But the big heart of it is really Rudy Giuliani, who is called out for going down to Georgia three times, and remember the January 6th committee hearing about the stolen ballots and the suitcase and Shaye Moss and Ruby Freeman.

He tells these lies again and again before a legislature. They are debunked. He nevertheless keeps spreading them and defaming Moss and Freeman and goes all the way through after they've been debunked. So, he's portrayed as the ringleader here with his fingerprints over many episodes. And this is, as I say, a really broad net, and he's at the center.

COATES: Well, you know, speaking of broad nets, my initial thought is that people, as a retort, might say this seems like a fishing expedition. How wide are you going to cast the net? You are going to throw all of these people in there, and you know that there are some allies of Trump that have tried to dodge or at least run out the clock on subpoenas from the committee.

And we know that subpoenas suddenly don't mean the same things that they meant when you and I were prosecuting. But this is still a criminal investigation. I want to walk through with you a little bit about --

LITMAN: Yes.

COATES: -- what's different in this instance. Unlike a January 6th subpoena, this is actually a criminal one. They've got something behind it in terms of being able to call you in and haul you in.

LITMAN: Yes. You're not going to casually disregard here. And you're right that it's many different, sort of, mini episodes, but they've all been pretty well documented. For instance, the lies that Giuliani told, they were responsible in part for the loss of his license.

So, they are what we heard before, and all she's saying for now is material and important witness. So, you know, I think the case for that is made. Now, the real issue is going to be are they going to resist? Are they going to come down? Are they going to testify? Are they going to take the fifth? You know, I think she's cast a broad net, and then what these seven people, Graham, a podcast person, and then five attorneys, John Eastman and Jenna Ellis included, how they are going to handle it.

COATES: You know, I think five attorneys -- I remember, I know you do as well -- the duty of candor you owe to a court. To think that five attorneys are being subpoenaed in a case like this is really stunning to me. You talk a lot about Rudy Giuliani, but, Harry, we're talking about people who have made representations to a court of law as well.

An important note for the audience. Remember, this is a special grand jury. They're going to return a report. They're not -- their job is not to return an indictment in Georgia. That's for the actual grand jury down the line. Harry Litman -- LITMAN: Although very quickly --

COATES: Yes.

LITMAN: -- the final decision probably will be with Fani Willis. But you're right.

COATES: Of course.

LITMAN: They won't do it.

COATES: Fani Willis, the D.A. of Fulton County. Very important point. Thank you, Harry Litman.

LITMAN: Thanks, Laura.

COATES: Look, the Justice Department is now suing Arizona. I'll tell you why and what it means for your right to vote after this.

[22:50:00]

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COATES: Tonight, the DOJ is suing the state of Arizona, trying to block a new law that requires people registering to vote in federal elections in Arizona to prove their citizens. Now right now, people who use a federal voter registration form are required to attest under the penalty of perjury that they are in fact, citizens but proof of that is not documented proof is not required.

The DOJ says the Arizona law is set to take effect in January, actually violates the National Voter Registration Act, and turns back the clock by imposing unlawful requirements to block otherwise eligible voters from registering. It also argues that Arizona tried to impose a similar proof of requirement back in 2013, but that, as you recall, it was blocked by the Supreme Court.

Well, seven counts of first-degree murder and investigators say there are more charges are coming as there are new details about the shooter, his plans and the red flags waving long before July 4th. Stay with us.

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COATES: The suspect in the July 4th parade shooting is charged with seven counts of first-degree murder, and we're told dozens more will be on the way. We are also learning disturbing new details about the suspect's past, as investigators try to piece together just why he could carry out this heinous attack killing seven innocent people and injuring dozens more.

CNN's Drew Griffin has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: The Lake County Sheriff's Office reveals two incidents involving the suspect Bobby Crimo. The first in April of 2019, a suicide attempt that was handled by mental health professionals.

COVELLI: The second was in 2019. A family member reported that Crimo said that Crimo was going to kill everyone, and Crimo had a collection of knives. The police responded to his residence. The police removed 16 knives, a dagger and a sword from Crimo's home. At that time, there were no probably cause to arrest or arrest, there were no complaints that were signed by any of the victims.

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