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The January 6th Select Committee Detailing A December 18 Oval Office Meeting To Overturn The Election; Trump Attempts To Call A Committee Witness; Video Surveillance Of Uvalde School Shooting Leaked; Rep. Jim Jordan Denies December White House Meeting. Aired 10- 11p ET

Aired July 12, 2022 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. This is DON LEMON TONIGHT. Thanks so much for joining. So, if I actually wrote all of this for let's just say "HBO Max," you would say, no! No way. That didn't happen. You really almost have to remind yourself that it actually happened. That a president of the United States, right, refused to accept the results of our free and fair election, trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power that makes us a democracy, trying to hold on to that power for himself, ignoring the will of the people.

You always have to remind yourself that it actually happened. It did. And today, we learned a lot more about how it actually happened with testimony from witness after witness after witness about one of the most shameful episodes in our history, a lot of it never before seen. And I'm going to play a lot of what we call in the business sound, just a lot of what they played today for the people to hear. I'm going to play it for you because it's edge of the seat stuff where the biggest bombshell came in the last few minutes. This is what Liz Cheney had to say. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): After our last hearing, President Trump tried to call a witness in our investigation, a witness you have not yet seen in these hearings. That person declined to answer or respond to President Trump's call and instead alerted their lawyer to the call. Their lawyer alerted us. And this committee has supplied that information to the Department of Justice. Let me say one more time. We will take any effort to influence witness testimony very seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Like try to call a witness. Not like call a witness to the stand, but call a witness. That's a no, no. The former president calling a witness. We don't know who this witness is, but we know one thing. Whoever they are, they were concerned enough to avoid President Trump and call their lawyer. So that tells you something.

And there is more here. Eyewitnesses, people who were there when it all went down, telling the committee and the American people actually what they heard and saw. There is the December 18th Oval Office meeting including election denier Sydney Powell, her client, former National Security adviser Michael Flynn, Rudy Giuliani, not to mention the former Overstock CEO, Patrick Byrne.

They were there tossing around outrageous ideas to overturn the election. Sources telling CNN including invoking martial law and an executive order to seize voting machines. For the first time, we heard Pat Cipollone's testimony about that, telling the committee that what happened when he walked into the Oval Office that night right before the screaming started. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT CIPOLLONE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: I opened the door and I walked in. I saw General Flynn. I saw Sydney Powell sitting there. I was not happy to see the people in the Oval Office.

UNKNOWN: Explain why.

CIPOLLONE: Well, again, I don't think they are providing, well, first of all, the Overstock person I -- I've never met -- never. I never knew who this guy was. Actually, the first thing I did, I walked in, I looked at him and I said, who are you? And he told me. I don't think -- I don't think any of these people were providing the President with good advice.

[22:05:00]

And so, I -- I didn't understand how they had gotten in.

ERIC HERSCHMANN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ATTORNEY: I think that it got to the point where the screaming was completely, completely out there. I mean, you got people walk in, it was late at night, had been a long day. And what they were proposing I thought was nuts.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: I'm going to -- I'm going to categorically describe it as you guys are not tough enough. Or maybe I put it another way. You're a bunch of pussies. Excuse the expression, but that -- that's I -- I'm almost certain the word was used.

HERSCHMANN: Flynn screamed at me that I was a quitter and everything, kept on standing up and turning around and screaming at me. And at a certain point I had it with him. So, I yelled back better come over. Better sit your effing ass back down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes. That's something they'd want to hear from Rudy Giuliani. In just a few hours after that meeting turned screaming match, the then president sent out his infamous tweet, "Big protest on D.C. January 6th. Be there, will be wild." It's like he had a megaphone and his supporters heard him loud and clear.

The leader of the "Stop the Steal" movement, registering wowprotest.com to give out details about protests in Washington. Meanwhile, other supporters chiming in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX JONES, FAR-RIGHT RADIO HOST: It's Saturday, December 19th. The year is 2020. And one of the most historic events in American history has just taken place. President Trump, in the early morning hours today, tweeted that he wants the American people to march on Washington, D.C., on January 6th, 2021.

UNKNOWN: And now, Donald Trump is calling on his supporters to descend on Washington, D.C., January 6th.

JONES: He is now calling on we, the people, to take action and to show our numbers.

MATT BRACKEN, RIGHT-WING COMMENTATOR: We are going to only be saved by millions of Americans moving to Washington occupying the entire area, if necessary, storming right into the capital.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It's informative because that's what people are listening to. If you have not heard of those sites, if you never heard about Infowars, of Alex -- or Alex Jones or any of that. People are listening to that. That's why they stormed the capitol for in part. The rhetoric turning to disgusting and even hateful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): DJT has invited us and it's going to be wild. Some of the online rhetoric turned openly homicidal and white nationalists, such as, why don't we just kill them, every last Democrat, down to the last man, woman, and child. And it's time for the day of the rope. White revolution is the only solution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Look, I think I'm an informed person. I didn't really know the day of the rope, but you know what the day of the rope is? It's a common slogan for white supremacists. The ADL saying it refers to mass lynching of purported so-called race traitors.

Then on the night of January 5th, there was a rally just a couple of blocks from the White House featuring none other than Roger Stone and Michael Flynn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-Fl): Through the open door of the Oval Office, the president could hear the sound of the crowd and the music at the rally, at the Freedom Plaza. And these are some of the things that they were saying there ate the plaza, just blocks from where the president sat that evening, excited for the next day.

ROGER STONE, FORMER POLITICAL ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP: This is nothing less than an epic struggle for the future of this country between dark and light. Between the godly and the godless. Between good and evil. And we will win this fight or America will step off into a thousand years of darkness.

MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURUTY ADVISER: Tomorrow, tomorrow, trust me. The American people that are standing on the soil that we are standing on tonight, and they're going to standing on this soil tomorrow, this is soil that we have fought over, fought for, and we will fight for in the future. The members -- the members of Congress, the members of the House of Representatives, the members of the United States Senate, those of you who are feeling weak tonight, those of you that don't have the moral fiber in your body, get some tonight because tomorrow, we the people are going to be here and we want you to know that we will not stand for a lie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He has general in front of his name. Hours later, a mob of Trump supporters stormed the United States capitol.

[22:10:01]

In the crowd, members of the Oath Keepers, nine members, have since been charged with seditious conspiracy. A former spokesman for the Oath Keepers testifying today. Listen to his chilling warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON VAN TATENHOVE, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, OATH KEEPERS: I do fear for this next election cycle because who knows what that might bring if a president that is willing to try to instill and encourage, to whip up a civil war amongst his followers' using lies and deceit and snake oil -- and regardless of the human impact, what's else is he going to do if he gets elected again?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, let's bring in now, let's discuss now. I want to bring in CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig, CNN senior political analyst Kirsten Powers, and CNN political commentator Mr. Scott Jennings. So, good evening. Thank you all for joining us here in New York.

I'm going to start with you, Kirsten, because this new Cipollone testimony. He told Trump that there was no fraud. That he should concede. He refused to go along with appointing Powell the special counsel. How important is Cipollone's testimony?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's important to those points. It's also important, I think, it was Jamie Raskin who pointed this out. That he essentially corroborated everybody else's testimony and he didn't --

LEMON: Right.

POWERS: -- so, that is also very important. And didn't contradict anything that Cassidy Hutchinson had said, which a lot of people were suggesting that she was making things up. So, I think it's important for that reason.

And you know, he also, I think, you know, as Liz Cheney pointed out at the end of, I think it was towards the end when she said no other person had more information about how the election was legitimate than Donald Trump. Like literally, no other human being alive had more of this information showing and having more people telling him, including Pat Cipollone, that this was a legitimate election.

LEMON: And he didn't (inaudible) yes.

POWERS: And he chose to ignore it.

LEMON: Yes.

POWERS: He chose to ignore it and he chose to go and try and find other people. But he had people like Pat Cipollone who is, we have to say, a die-hard Trump supporter. I mean, this is not somebody who didn't like Donald Trump, some liberal that snuck into the White House. This is somebody who did support him and who was telling him, along with a lot of other people, there's no there there and he wasn't interested unless (inaudible).

LEMON: The conservative at the table, you're shaking your head in agreement with Kirsten.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, look, all the serious people, all the professionals, all the people that Donald Trump had hired to advise his White House, notably his lawyer, the person who tells you whether things are legal or illegal, telling him this election was lost and what you're trying to do here is not based in reality or based in law.

I mean, that has really serious implications, particularly when you consider all of the efforts that were being made internally and externally to influence Mike Pence, to intimidate Mike Pence and other members of Congress, to interrupt the constitutional process that was our peaceful transference of power.

I had to laugh at the phrase, day of the rope. I mean, this December 18th, meaning was night of the dopes. I mean, the fact that you have all these serious people telling you one thing and then you gather, you know, what is essentially the cantina from "Star Wars" in your -- in the Oval Office and in the White House residence, to take their advice?

I mean, we were off the rails. We were absolutely off the rails. And thank goodness as Pat Cipollone said that Mike Pence did his job and did his duty that day because it's clear. This entire thing was designed to break him and to intimidate him and to break him and he didn't do it.

LEMON: You think this is all to break --

JENNINGS: Absolutely. Absolutely.

LEMON: -- Mike Pence, the former vice president? I want to put up this tweet. This is when Trump when he didn't get what he wanted. He activated his support. This is for you, Elie, with his late night tweet, and he knew what he was doing. It was a call to arms. Any legal implications here?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, one of the things the committee told us, Benny Thompson told Jake Tapper about a week or so ago, is that they would establish proof of conversations between domestic extremist groups and people in Donald Trump's orbit. Candidly, we did not see that today. That was a promise that I think went unfulfilled by the committee.

What they did establish is that Donald Trump knew darn well how to communicate with his people. He knew how to ring those bells and whistles. Those whistles, and boy, the response that we saw to that tweet was incredibly compelling.

All across social media, within the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, the rallies, they saw that as a call to action, a call to arms. So, you're not going to have the clean conspiracy that prosecutors like, that agreement that you can point to and say, right there. Meeting of the minds.

But in characteristic Donald Trump fashion, he's sort of a master at knowing right where the line is, going right up to the line, maybe dipping half a toe over the line, but it's a tough call.

POWERS: But what about the fact that -- and we still don't -- I think we don't know the missing link between about how the people, the organizers from those extremist groups got the information that he was going to say, let's go to the capitol? I mean, doesn't that suggest that there is some sort of connection?

HONIG: Yes. So, this is a great point because we know the chain of communication, right? Flynn and Stone both, unabashedly, associated, posted photos of themselves, Proud Boys, QAnon, Oath Keepers.

[22:15:02]

We know Mark Meadows was in communication with them. Remember Cassidy Hutchinson told us January 5th, Donald Trump told Meadows to talk to those guys and, presumably, that was at Donald Trump's behest, but we don't know what was said. That is a gap in the evidence here that the committee may not be able to fill.

Prosecutors could fill it because they can compel Mark Meadows to talk, but the committee, he walked away from the committee. He defied them. No charges.

LEMON: Okay. So go prosecutor. Weren't you a former prosecutor?

HONIG: I would subpoena --

LEMON: Okay.

HONIG: I would -- a grand jury subpoena, the real kind. Not the kind that you can just brush off, this committee kind. Get him in front of the grand jury, he's under oath, and ask him precisely, what were your conversations with Flynn? What were your conversations with Stone? Maybe he takes the fifth. Maybe he'd tell us something.

JENNINGS: So, you don't have the legal piece nailed down today, but you do have the practical and moral piece nailed down.

HONIOG: Yes.

JENNINGS: I mean, it's quite obvious after all these hearings that Donald Trump wouldn't accept the best advice from all of his advisors, that he lost the election and decided to whip up a mob and intimidate Mike Pence into breaking the Constitution. That's what happened.

LEMON: Okay, Scott, so who does this matter to? Obviously, it's not going to matter to the die-hard, right? Does it matter to conservatives like to enough --

JENNINGS: Yes. Yes, I believe it does.

LEMON: -- enough Republicans like you that it changes the calculation for Trump running --

JENNINGS: Yes. I believe it does. You're already seeing evidence in some of the political polling that he's not in a greatest shape as he used to be with Republicans. There's a "New York Times" survey that's come out this week showing him ahead in a fragmented field. But obviously people are looking for another alternative.

A couple of weeks ago there was a survey in New Hampshire showing Ron DeSantis beating Donald Trump in a New Hampshire survey. To me, there is mounting political evidence that Republicans are casting about because they don't want to do this again.

And there's also evidence that Trump knows it. There's only one reason why you would want to be launching your campaign right now it's because you hear the footsteps and you think maybe launching your campaign would put the fire out and maybe insulate you legally from being indicted by your possible opponents.

LEMON: That's a lot of ifs and maybes.

JENNINGS: So, I see evidence that the Republicans, the rank -- it's always going to be a group, but I see evidence that a lot more people in the party who voted for him twice gave him money, really supported him are ready to do something else.

LEMON: You've never said that before.

JENNINGS: I feel it today.

LEMON: Alright, stick around everybody. When we come back, I want to talk about the bombshell that Liz Cheney dropped in the last few minutes of today's hearing and what it could mean to the investigation. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:20:00]

LEMON: So, we're talking about these new revelations from the January 6th Committee, what was going on inside the Trump White House in the weeks leading up to the insurrection. With me now, CNN political analyst Astead Herndon, also any Elie Honig, Kirsten Powers, and Scott Jennings. A little secret, Astead was supposed to be here earlier, but his car was driving into D.C.!

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Slight miscommunication.

LEMON: Yes. Miscommunication. We're happy that you're here. Welcome. Listen, I want to pick up (inaudible) because you guys wanted to actually respond to what Scott said. Scott believes that this is not helping the former president, that it's weakening him. Am I correct?

JENNINGS: Oh, yes. Look, I think there is this mounting polling evidence that there is an opening here and that this is really eroding him.

HONIG: So, this brought to mind something I saw earlier today. Anderson Cooper was interviewing John Dean and Anderson asked Mr. Dean, were you nervous when you testified in the Watergate hearings? And John Dean said no because Richard Nixon was weakened. He was politically weakened.

And the question is, has that happened or is that happening to Donald Trump? I'll certainly defer to you as the conservative in the room, but it sounds like you're saying that maybe starting now.

JENNINGS: It's starting. I mean, look, he is still the front runner I think for the '24 nomination. But in a fragmented field, that still his best friend, but it's clear to me that there are more and more people every day in the party who are looking for a way out of this.

UNKNOWN: The reason looking for a way out --

LEMON: I thought this was important because, you know, Scott, how long have we've been doing this? Since, what 2015 --

JENNINGS: Five years.

LEMON: -- 2015, 2016 that we've been talking about this and this is the first time that I've heard you say that because, you know, we have all these things. We had -- we went through two impeachments, the beginning of the insurrection and, you know, the tape, you know, the infamous grab them by p-word tape.

And you said, you know, we're making all this hay about this and people don't care. They're still going to vote for him. They'd still support him. That's the first time I've heard it. So, that's why I think it's important to hear someone like you say that.

So, Astead, let me give you this question. The committee was hammering home today that Trump was surrounded by people from Cipollone and Barr, to his own daughter, Ivanka Trump, who knew he lost the election. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: I want to start by asking if you agree, Mr. Cipollone, with the conclusions of Matt Morgan, Bill Barr, of all of the individuals who evaluated those claims that there is no evidence of election fraud sufficient to undermine the outcome in any particular state?

CIPOLLONE: Yes, I agree with that.

WILLIAM BARR, FORMER UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Meadows had caught up with me and -- leaving the office and caught up with me and said that -- he said look, I think that he's becoming more realistic and knows that there is a limit to how far he can take this. And then Jared said, you know, yeah, we're working on this. We're working on it.

UNKNOWN: Did that affect sort of your planning or realization as to whether or not there was going to be an end of this administration?

IVANKA TRUMP, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO TRUMP: I think so. I think it was my -- my sentiment probably prior as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Liz Cheney said today, Trump is no child. He had the right information and he chose to lie.

HERNDON: I think that's true. I think that is clear from the evidence they presented today. The people who he brought into that room to discuss where to go next were people that he knew we're going to agree with his plot to overturn the election. He had actually kind of systematically removed himself from all the people who were going to tell him the truth.

It's interesting hearing those advisers talk because it sounds like people talking to a child, you know. They, you know, you say Trump is the child of the question, but it sounds like they're talking to someone who that when they tell them the truth, when they tell them the reality, they don't think they're going to accept it because it's just, frankly, not what he wants to hear.

He was plowing ahead not only because of a lack of information, he refused to hear. But this is consistent for Donald Trump. I mean, he has surrounded himself with conspiracy theorists, with people who do not provide him correct information.

[22:24:58]

It is only the thing -- the only thing that he has cared about throughout his political career is that the information he was receiving was going to advance him and was going to achieve his interests. And that tracks with what we heard today.

LEMON: The picture you paint it was Donie -- JENNINGS: That tweet that he sent the night after the meeting. The

fact that he said in the tweet, it's statistically impossible that we lost. Listen, I have been involved in some stinkers and I've been involved with some winners. It's very statistically possible that he got his ass kicked. I'm just telling you. Very possible.

LEMON: Vice Chair Liz Cheney revealing today that the last hearing that they had, that Trump contacted a witness, right? And the committee alerted the DOJ. I mean, the hubris, the gall, is that a bombshell?

HONIG: Well, Donald Trump is an inveterate habitual witness tamperer and witness retaliator. I mean, I can't think of anybody. Think back to from Michael Cohen to all the witnesses in Ukraine, Alexander Vindman, his twin brother, Marie Yovanovitch, on through right now.

Even the other day, he lashed out in public against Cassidy Hutchinson. He does it almost in realtime. So, it was remarkably foolish, horrible judgment to reach out to anybody who might have been a witness. I have no doubt if we had to guess, we're not in the world of guessing here, but he probably had intent to at least try to persuade that person, maybe not outright intimidate them.

That said, if all we have is a phone call that was not answered and not returned, just a missed connection, that's not going to be witness tampering. People need to cool that a little bit.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: On this for attempted witness tampering.

HONOG: Which is a phone call. You don't have enough proof. You just don't have enough proof.

JENNINGS: But on this front -- on this front though, you've got people, I mean, look what happened to Hutchinson. Starting out, she had a lawyer that was arranged by them and I guess paid for by them, too. So, if you are a witness and you get call to do this thing and somebody is getting into your lawyer and taking care of all that for you, I mean, you know, you are in the business. I mean, isn't that -- don't you feel compelled to act a certain way?

HONIG: It's an absolutely conflict of interest. It's actually surprisingly common both in the criminal world and the normal corporate world. A lot of corporations pay for their witnesses. It definitely has the effect of making it much more difficult to cooperate.

And I will say, one of the biggest red flags we would have us prosecutors, is someone might be ready to cooperate, is they dump their lawyer, they dump their corporate paid for lawyer or the lawyer that the drug king pin gave them. That simple (inaudible).

LEMON: This is why our legal system needs to be (inaudible) needs to be informed.

JENNINGS: By the way -- this is better --

HONIG: This is the truth.

JENNINGS: I mean, these people ain't cheap. Look at his suit. These people are not cheap. They are not cheap. They cost a lot of money. I got (inaudible) through one of these ones. I ran up like a quarter of a million dollars in legal bills and I didn't do anything. I didn't try to overthrow the government. It's not cheap. So, you can see the allure. You take a young person with no resources and give them a lawyer and pay for it.

LEMON: They'll do it.

JENNINGS: You can see the connections here.

LEMON: Kirsten, we're also learning that Trump had planned for that crowd to march to the capital and we saw a drafted tweet stamp, president has seen, that said in part that, "March to the capitol after. Stop the Steal." It was never sent, but how significant is that do you think?

POWERS: Well, this isn't the only evidence that he wanted to march to the capitol. There's also the fact that this was somehow communicated to organizers, you know, of these right-wing organizers. You know, Katrina Pierson also mentioned this. And the fact that he kept it from everybody else, right, so that they couldn't be stopped.

LEMON: Yes.

POWERS: So, it shows that there is an awareness of guilt, there's an awareness that there's something wrong with this and that this was his intent to do this all along. And it was even being communicated to the people in these, you know -- that were organizing this mob basically, what ended up being a mob.

And so, I think it is significant because it does go to the point that it wasn't the sort of, oh, just threw this out, you know, out of nowhere. It didn't really comprehend what it meant. And I think what we also just really saw today was how clearly his followers understood the ultimate tweet that did go out.

It was, you know, when they play the response to it, it's just so clear that they all hear what he is saying.

LEMON: Well, the witnesses said it today because the president told me.

POWERS: Yes. They all hear what he is saying and then they amplify it, right?

LEMON: Yes.

POWERS: Yes. And so, it's very clear. He knows what he's saying and they know what he's saying.

LEMON: Yes. It's interesting because as I watch these, right, the hearings every day or whenever they have them, I'm like, oh, Katrina Pierson. Oh, I remember her.

POWERS: Yes.

LEMON: And like everyone who has sat at this desk or if not the other desk at the other building, but.

POWERS: Yes.

LEMON: I mean, yes. I was a 21. I looked 21 when this all started back in 2015.

JENNINGS: What do you look now, 24?

LEMON: Sixty-eight! We're going to talk about what happened on January 6th. The call with the president and the vice president and so on and so forth. Everybody stick around. We got a lot more to talk about.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:00]

LEMON: Alright. And we're back everyone. Astead Herndon is here, Elie Honig, Kirsten Powers and Scott Jennings. Scott, I want to -- since you've been talking about the pressure that was put on the former vice president, we learned today that after a heated call with Mike Pence on the morning of January 6th, the Trump speech was punched up to be tougher on the vice president then he adlibbed even more attacks. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: So, I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do and I hope he doesn't listen to the rhinos and the stupid people that he's listening to. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He's making a choice to turn people on his own vice president.

[22:35:01]

JENNINGS: And by this time, he had been told, he knew that Mike Pence, the vice president, had no legal authority to stop or interrupt the counting that was going to happen that day. He knew he had been told that what he was proposing was the interruption of a constitutionally mandated process in which the vice president is ministerial. He's just a functionary. He oversees it, but cannot stop it, and yet he did it anyway.

And Mike Pence did the right thing, but look at the pressure that was brough to bear even though Trump wanted to go to the capitol and didn't. His people still went and that was the whole point, was to send the mob and to break him.

LEMON: Yes.

JENNINGS: You know, he didn't break him on the phone, so they're going to send a mob to break him. And thank God, he didn't do it.

HONIG: And he made it worse because he tweets two hours later, 2:24, against Mike Pence. And we all saw the video that the committee played of that tweet being read to the crowd, which within seconds breaks into the "Hang Mike Pence" chant.

HERNDON: And I think one of the --

LEMON: And the gallows on the mall (ph), yes.

HERNDON: I think one of the things people misunderstand particularly about those kinds of far-right groups, I did a story in D.C. talking to some of those folks in 2017, 2018. They know -- they knew they had access to Trump, right? They were intentionally trying to put stories on the Gateway Pundit's, on the Newsmax's, on the OAN's, knowing that there were people around him who will get them that information.

That was a problem in terms of policy and who he was listening to. In the White House, it came to a kind of combination on January 6th. When these kinds of actors knew that with the right information that was feeding what Trump wanted to hear, they could make their way into the Oval Office. That kind of protection and bury that bunker of correct information we expect the president being, had been breached from day one of this administration and it continued through the 6th.

LEMON: We also learned more information about the December meeting between Trump and 10 GOP -- 11 Republicans. They discussed the so- called easement theory that Pence would overturn the election. We know some of them later requested pardons and it raises even more questions, don't you think, Kirsten?

POWERS: Yes. I mean, you know, all of this is just -- it's so crazy, right? I mean, to use a very technical term, I guess. But, you know, just the fact that there is so many different times and so many different people that he goes to, to try to create this idea that the election has been overthrown sends this mob up to the capitol, you know, knowing full well that they could potentially kill somebody, maybe even kill Mike Pence.

All of these things that have been laid out, and you know, to the point you're bringing up, he is losing support, but he still has the majority of support of Republicans. And that, I mean, in the poll that -- the most recent poll --

JENNINGS: It was about 50-50. I think about 50 and then 50 somewhere else.

POWERS: -- well, actually, he is the one who has the most support, right.

JENNINGS: That's true. POWERS: Right. So, you still have that. And I just -- and is it

because Republicans aren't seeing this? I mean, is that -- because I was thinking like if you could just get people in a room and make them listen to this, is it possible that they would just realize how horrible this is?

LEMON: Look, I think a lot of people had been brainwashed. Look, I mean, listen --

POWERS: Well, I don't know. I mean --

LEMON: Just say brainwash. They've been convinced, they have been co- opted and many of them have been brainwashed. Now, today, let's -- I know we want to get to a break.

POWERS: But can I just say very quickly, I did look at Fox News tonight and they were running a story about a Black Lives Matter protest and all of the -- how horrible little children are to police officers. I mean, that is literally what their covering.

LEMON: Well, I mean, you should know that Fox and news in the same sentence --

POWERS: Right, but I'm just saying -- but those are -- but that's the information that so many Republicans are (inaudible) on.

LEMON: But let's -- speaking of that, right, and if someone being co- opted, someone believing you, can we -- let's play it. This is Stephen Ayres, he's capital rioter, today. Let's play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MURPHY: What made you decide to leave?

STEPHEN AYRES, CAPITOL RIOTER: Basically, when President Trump put his tweet out, we literally left right after that come out. You know, to me, if he would've done that earlier in the day, 1:30, you know, we wouldn't be in this -- maybe we wouldn't be in this bad of the situation or something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He could have -- at any time, he could have said, he could have put something out as he said, and they wouldn't have done it. The people believe him. And I think not just the people a crowd, but there are people, I'm sure, that the die-hard folks, like the Jim Jordan's of the world, they believed him.

JENNINGS: Well, there was an expect --

LEMON: Or are they just playing for the --

POWERS: I don't think they are.

JENNINGS: Well, there was an expectation that they were going to the capitol. They went to the capitol. And then he made them believe that there was -- may had an expectation that by going there and intimidating the United States Congress, that they would achieve an outcome. That's the thing. This wasn't --

LEMON: I got to say, listen. I know people in my life, I know people who I went to school with down in Louisiana, right, LSU, and they believe the stuff. I just --

POWERS: No, no, no, but Don, I'm not disagreeing with you that they believe it.

LEMON: They believe it.

POWERS: But my point is like, is it because they actually don't. The information that they get fed over and over and over again, I mean, Trump is their news source, right?

[22:40:00]

HERNDON: Yes, I think -- I think that there could be a belief that the amount of misinformation, the amount of kind of false things the kind of Trump voters was hearing started at this time. Well, that's not really how it operates for most Trump voters. They're in a cocoon, an ecosystem, a silo of the die-hards, right, that has been doing this for years, I mean, maybe for decades.

JENNINGS: There's a lot of this going around right now. The belief that if you intimidate a branch of government enough, that they will bend to your will. There's a lot of it going around right now. There's a whole bunch of people in America that believe it and it's wrong. It's corrosive.

LEMON: Hello? Yes, well, blame Trump. I mean, January 6th. We can do -- I can strong-arm the government. I can strong-arm people. And we can take back this country by force. Moving on. Thank you all. I appreciate it.

A Texas newspaper releasing surveillance video of the Uvalde school shooting and it is sparking new outrage over the police response to the massacre.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:45:00]

LEMON: The Uvalde City Council officially accepting the resignation of Councilman Pedro Pete Arredondo tonight. Arredondo, the embattled chief of the Uvalde school police who's been under pressure since the shooting at Robb Elementary School in May.

This all comes as we are getting a look at just what police did or really didn't do as the shooter was inside that school. The "Austin American-Statesman" newspaper releasing school surveillance video today. They did edit the video so gunshots could not be heard other than the shots that ultimately killed the suspect.

But even without that audio, I warn you, the video is very disturbing and difficult to watch. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is here along with CNN senior law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey. Good evening to both of you. Thank you so much. Shimon, we are hearing from the community tonight, a lot of them angry about this video being released. What does it show?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly disturbing, as you said, Don. You see the officers as they walk into the school just retreat. There are shots, gunshots that are fired at the officers by the gunman. And then within moments, within minutes of those gunshots being fired, they start to pull back.

And as you said, the community here today, very upset over this. They're angry over the way this video came out, this leak. They were expecting to see it on Sunday when the families were all going to gather together. And now, the first time they are seeing this is in this leak that was given to the local newspaper.

And as you said, Don, this video is disturbing and certainly difficult to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO)

TEXT: On May 24, surveillance video shows a truck crash near Robb Elementary. The gunman in the crash vehicle fires three shots at two men who approach the crash scene. A teacher called 911 to report the gunman.

UNKNOWN: The kids are running.

TEXT: The gunman begins shooting at the school from the parking lot

UNKNOWN: Get down! Get in your rooms! Get in your rooms!

TEXT: The gunman fires his AR-15 inside two classrooms for two and half minutes. Authorities say more than 100 rounds were fired. Police enter the school minutes after the gunman. Some officers rush toward the classrooms. Officers retreat to the hallway and take cover after shots were fired by the gunman. More heavily armed officers continue to arrive, some with ballistic shields. Still, no rescue attempt happens. The gunman is heard firing 4 more rounds. Officers breach the classroom and kill the gunman.

[22:50:00]

(END VIDEO)

PROKUPECZ: And there, Don, finally at the end, the officers storming into that classroom and killing the gunman. But as you can see from that video, minutes tick by, and minutes tick by, as students are inside that classroom. Some of them, we're told by some of the victims who were inside of that classroom, that people were being shot while the officers were standing in the hallway.

As you can see, disorganized, not really knowing what to do. And then finally at the end, for whatever reason, we don't really even know why, they finally at the end decided to go in and kill the gunman. LEMON: Charles, I can see in your face, I mean, it's awful. Talk to us about what we just saw. What stands out to you in that video?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, everything. This thing just keeps getting worse. I mean, there's no excuse for the way they handle that situation, absolutely no excuse. The original officers that arrived, the initials officers rather, the three of them go down the hall. That's fine. That's what they're supposed to do. They take fire, they retreat, but you have to regroup and go back.

I mean, at 19-minute -- at the 19-minute mark, they show officers with ballistic shields, with vests, with ballistic helmets. I mean, you know, they had what they needed in that hallway to go down and take the action they needed to take to stop the killing and they didn't do it.

It's embarrassing as a police officer to watch this. It really is because this is not how officers are trained, it's not how they are to react in situations like this, period.

LEMON: Charles, Shimon, thank you very much. I appreciate it. The January 6th Committee mentioning Jim Jordan was one of the GOP lawmakers at December 2020, that White House meeting, where they discussed Mike Pence's role on January 6th. His response? He says he doesn't recall exactly what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:55:00]

LEMON: Tonight, Congressman Jim Jordan, the Ohio Republican who is a fierce ally of the former president, telling CNN that he does not recall a meeting with Trump at the White House on December 21, 2020 to discuss former VP Mike Pence's role on January 6th.

Today, the January 6th Committee pointing out that Jordan was there along with at least 10 other GOP lawmakers where they discussed plans to have Mike Pence toss out of the election results. You might recall Jordan also just can't quite remember when he spoke to Trump on January 6th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR POPIELARZ, SPECTRUM NEWS WASHINGTON CORRESPONDET: On January 6th, did you speak with him before, during, or after the capitol was attacked?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I'd have to go -- I -- I spoke with him that day after, I think after. I don't know if I spoke with him in the morning or not -- I just don't know -- I'd have to go back -- I mean, I don't -- I don't -- I don't know that -- when those conversations happened. But all I know is I spoke with him all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Jordan says that he was at the Trump White House many times,

but doesn't always recall what took place. A plan to call Trump supporters to march on the capitol, attempts to seize voting machines, all the headlines from today's bombshell January 6th hearing, that's next.

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