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Don Lemon Tonight
The January 6 Committee Will Hold Its Final Hearing On July 21, 2022; The January 6 Committee Expresses Concerns Over Secret Service's Handling Of Texts; Former Trump Aides To Publicly Testify At January 6 Committee's Final Hearing; CNN Obtains Body Cam Video Showing Chicago Police Shooting Unarmed Black 13-Year-Old. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired July 20, 2022 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Now, CNN's Kristen Holmes has the details on who they are and crucially what they could reveal.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Matthew Pottinger and Sarah Matthews, two former Trump White House officials who resigned after the deadly Capitol attack on January 6th, tomorrow testifying publicly --
SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: The president started talking about the rally --
HOLMES (voice-over): -- after talking to the committee behind closed doors.
MATTHEW POTTINGER, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: One of my staff brought me a printout of a tweet by the president. And the tweet said something to the effect that Mike Pence, the vice president, didn't have the courage to do what he -- what should have been done. I read that tweet and made a decision at that moment to resign. That's where I knew that I was leaving that day, once I read that tweet.
HOLMES (voice-over): Pottinger, former deputy national security advisor, served under Trump for four years. The former journalist and marine was brought into the White House as the top agent advisor by Michael Flynn, who he worked for in the military.
According to "The New York Times," Pottinger told the committee he alerted Trump's chief of staff, Mark Meadows, the National Guard had still not arrived at the Capitol on January 6th.
Former Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Matthews was one of several White House aides calling for Trump to condemn the violence on January 6th. A source tells CNN his inaction led to her resignation that night.
MATTHEWS: He said that we could make the rhinos do the right thing, is the way he phrased it, and no one spoke up initially because I think everyone was trying to process what that -- he meant by that. HOLMES (voice-over): Now, she will testify about she experienced in the White House that day.
MATTHEWS (voice-over): It was clear that it was escalating and escalating quickly. So then, when that tweet, the Mike Pence tweet was sent out, I remember us saying that that was the last thing that needed to be tweeted at that moment. The situation was already bad. And so, it felt like he was pouring gasoline on the fire by tweeting that.
HOLMES (voice-over): The Kent State graduate has spent her adult life working in republican politics, spending her college summers interning for Ohio Senator Rob Portman, then-Speaker of the House John Boehner and helping with the 2016 republican convention, joining Trump's reelection campaign before being brought over to the White House by Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany.
Their testimony comes after that of another young White House aide, Cassidy Hutchinson, whose bombshell revelations sent shockwaves through Washington.
(On camera): Don, these two witnesses, along with former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone, whose video testimony we anticipate seeing large chunks of tomorrow, will really help shape the focus of that hearing, which we expect to be 187 minutes along. Lawmakers examining the amount of time that former President Donald Trump did not act as that violence was unfolding at the Capitol. Don?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, thank you very much for that, Kristen, I appreciate it.
Now, I want to bring in CNN contributor and Nixon White House counsel Mr. John Dean and CNN chief legal analyst Mr. Jeffrey Toobin. Good evening, gentlemen.
Jeffrey, the January 6 Committee has snippets of outtakes from Trump's taped message the day after the riot. Listen to what -- this is what Congressman Adam Schiff told me about it tonight. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): There are people urging him to say things to try to get the rioters, the attackers, to go home. There are things that he can't be prevailed upon to do and say, not for hours and hours. And then ultimately, when he does give a statement, still, things he wouldn't say. And so, you will have to wait until tomorrow evening to see precisely what that is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This could shed a whole lot of light on his state of mind in the wake of the riot. That could be revealing, right?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yeah, Don, so much of this investigation has been about former President Trump's state of mind. You know, was he someone who was trying to just get the right answer about how the votes were counted or was he doing whatever it took to get his vote total ahead of Joe Biden, regardless of what the actual vote totals were?
You know, outtakes are an extremely useful piece of evidence in that regard because you get to see the real ungarnished Trump, you get to see him -- see what the -- his staff wanted him to say, and you see him saying what he really wanted to say. So, I think that should be an extremely revealing part of the hearing tomorrow, hearing these outtakes.
[23:05:01]
LEMON: Of the tug of war, right, between -- I want to say this --
TOOBIN: Right.
LEMON: I can't say that, this is what you should say, and so on. The committee has already laid out how many people were begging Trump to act, Jeffrey, and he just didn't, doing nothing. It might not be a crime but does it say something about his motives and his intentions for the 6th? I mean, is that -- is that prosecutable? I mean -- you know where I'm going with this.
TOOBIN: Yeah, it's all part of the issue of his state of mind. I mean, just to go back to our state of mind on January 6th, you know, we were all either covering or watching what was going on. This was a life or death struggle. Everybody knew it at the time. I mean, it was a tremendously violent confrontation in the Capitol. And there was one person in the United States who could have shut it down --
LEMON: Uh-hmm.
TOOBIN: -- and it was Donald Trump. And, you know, 187 minutes, that's a long time! That's, you know, more than three hours that he let it go on. And included in that three hours is the tweet about Mike Pence, which stirred up the crowd even more. So, rather than pouring water on the fire, he was pouring fuel on the fire, at least at 2:24 during the, you know, with that tweet.
So, I mean, it's going to be so interesting to see what more detail we get about what Trump was doing and saying, and to whom during those three hours.
LEMON: I wonder how much this matters because, John, both of these staffers testifying tomorrow quit because of Trump's actions on January 6th. What difference does it make, you know, to have White House insiders giving us this information and White House insiders who were so upset by what happened that they quit?
JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, FORMER NIXON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Well, I think we have something of an adversarial posture between the White House and these witnesses. They have been attacked by the former staffers who are still Trump supporters and Trump is apparently throwing grenades as well. They don't want to have their reputations smeared as Trump will want to do.
So, they are going to come forward with a lot of facts, some we know of, some we don't know of, and I think it's going to be really gripping television. It's prime time, so you know the committee has thought about how to present a powerful case for the audience. They've got America's attention, and they will try to, I think, use these witnesses and other information they have gathered to make the points that they feel will kind of wrap this up.
It is not the end of their investigation. It's not a summary report but rather it is going to delve into his dereliction of duty, which is pretty horrible.
LEMON: Uh-hmm. You know, Jeffrey, we saw Pat Cipollone, right? We only saw small portions of him, the former White House counsel Pat Cipollone, his taped testimony. What would it mean if the committee could back up the Hutchinson testimony that Trump thought Pence deserved to be targeted by that mob?
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, it could be legally very significant because, again, this goes to the issue of state of mind, if you have the White House counsel saying to the president, you can't do this, this is illegal, and according to Cassidy Hutchinson, there were -- you know, that Cipollone kept saying everybody is going to go to jail if this continues.
So, you know, this is in many respects the most important part of the -- of the evidence because, you know, ultimately, I think the most important legal issue is, did Donald Trump know or support or endorse violence at the Capitol?
LEMON: Hmm.
TOOBIN: And seeing what he did while watching that violence unfold and perhaps hearing advice from his aides who were saying, stop this, this is, you know, criminality, that could be, you know, extremely significant to the Justice Department, if and when they do an investigation of him.
LEMON: I feel like sometimes, you know, the two stories are so similar. It's unbelievable to have you here, John Dean, talking about it because the same questions, right, could -- would be pertinent questions for what happened with Richard Nixon and Watergate.
The January 6 Committee saying that they -- quote -- "have concerns about the Secret Service's handling of text messages." Our Jamie Gangel is saying earlier that that's code for being serious. How poorly has the agency handled this?
[23:10:00]
DEAN: Not well at all thinking -- you made me think back on Watergate as you were leading into the question and how poorly the Secret Service did in that, where they had an 18 and a half-minute gap, they couldn't really explain --
LEMON: That's why I said it. That's why I said it.
(LAUGHTER)
DEAN: They had a whole missing real.
LEMON: Yeah.
DEAN: The one I revealed, my conversation, where I thought I was taped, and that whole thing disappeared. So, this is an agency with a history. I have always been surprised how political Donald Trump -- I shouldn't say surprised, he made everything political, but he certainly politicized the Secret Service.
He brought his own man in to run it. He took his own -- the head of his own detail and made him a deputy chief of staff for operations, which is just an unheard position, where an agent literally steps out of the detail to take over everything from advances to really protecting the president personally as well as politically, and I think that's what happened with this agency.
And we don't know what all has gone on, but the missing conversation like I have alluded to earlier, the fact that they -- they are very responsible for making the president's daily diary. A lot of the information that the diarist from the National Archives collects, he or she get that from the Secret Service.
There is seven hours missing for January 6th. That's still never been explained. We kind of moved on to other missing problems. That's all going to be addressed now.
LEMON: Obviously, that's a huge problem. Let me just ask you, look, we don't know, all right, and the investigation has to play out, but considering everything that you heard about the Secret Service and your history of it, it sounds to me like you are saying, you wouldn't put it past them?
DEAN: I wouldn't put it past this presently constructed Secret Service.
LEMON: Tell me why. I know you talked about it a little bit. You said he put his own man in charge and he politicized it.
DEAN: That's it, he politicized it, and they were answering not to the government in general and trying to protect the incumbent president, they were trying to help him get reelected and may have well have been trying to overturn an election. We will find out.
LEMON: Wow! Jeffrey, I don't know if you even want to respond to that. You want to move on? Can we move on?
TOOBIN: Well, you know, I mean, it is a really chilling thing because, you know, the Secret Service is supposed to be entirely apolitical, that they -- that they protect a handful of top people starting with the president, but they don't do it ideologically.
And if they see as their job to protect the president politically in addition to physically, that's really going to change people's perceptions of the Secret Service and not in a good way.
And the Secret Service has done nothing to enhance its reputation by this incredibly bumbling away that they have dealt with the issue of text messages. And bumbling is the charitable explanation.
LEMON: Yeah.
TOOBIN: The sinister explanation is that they were engaged in a coverup. We will see which is the correct answer.
LEMON: But do you think -- I want to move on. I want to talk about what's happening with Rudy Giuliani quickly. Let me ask you this, John. Do you think that's a misperception that people have about the Secret Service? That it is apolitical and that people aren't ideological?
I mean, because you know a lot of law enforcement conservatives, nothing wrong with that, that's just the truth, wouldn't that be similar when it comes to the Secret Dervice, especially considering your history and your knowledge of the Secret Service?
DEAN: Yes and no. I think the protective detail gets very attached personally to the president. And that's not surprising. These are people who are willing to give up their life to protect him. So, the fact that they are more than lumps in the room when they are there and most presidents recognize that --
LEMON: Got it.
DEAN: So, this is troubling that that's happening to this agency, but Trump's politicizing things causes these kinds of problems.
LEMON: Got it. Hey, Jeffrey, so let's talk about Rudy Giuliani state level investigation because a New York judge is ordering Rudy Giuliani to testify next month in Fulton County, Georgia probe (INAUDIBLE) undermine the 2020 election. How big a development is this?
TOOBIN: Well, we'll see if he actually testifies, you know. Any lawyer in his right mind would tell Rudy to take the Fifth because Rudy is really exposed, especially in the Georgia investigation which is moving quickly and in a very aggressive way by the Fulton County district attorney.
But, you know, she is pushing forward. She has named a whole bunch of new targets of her investigation. She has got Rudy, you know, coming into the grand jury.
[23:15:01]
It will be important if he testifies, but I wouldn't put a lot of money on him actually testify in a grand jury. I think he will take the Fifth.
LEMON: I just want to say that Giuliani was one of several close Trump allies subpoenaed earlier this month along with Lindsey Graham and John Eastman. So, there you go. There it is on your screen. Thank you, gentlemen. Good to see you. I appreciate it.
DEAN: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Thanks.
TOOBIN: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: One text message. That's all the Secret Service has managed to turn over out of a month's worth of records for 24 Secret Service personnel. No wonder the committee is expressing concerns. Are they hiding something?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: The Secret Service remains committed to cooperating fully with the committee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[23:20:00]
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LEMON: The January 6 Select Committee expressing concerns about the Secret Service's handling of cellphone data after the agency turned over just one text exchange requested by investigators.
I want to bring in now CNN law enforcement analyst Michael Fanone, who defended the Capitol on January 6th, and national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. She is the author of "The Devil Never Sleeps: Learning to Live in an Age of Disasters."
Michael, thank you. Michael, you have a book coming out as well, we should mention. What is the name of your book again?
MICHAEL FANONE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: "Hold the Line."
LEMON: "Hold the Line." When does it come out? September, correct?
FANONE: October.
LEMON: October.
FANONE: October 11th.
LEMON: October 11th. I know because I wrote a little snippet for you. Thank you. Okay, I appreciate both of you joining us. As a former NPD officer and someone who defended the Capitol on January 6th, you don't buy what you're hearing from the Secret Service. Why not, Mike?
FANONE: Well, first of all, for a great deal of my career, I worked closely with federal agencies, ATF, FBI, DEA, and I know how seriously they take the storage of data, specifically that of text communications, emails, things like that. And so, I just don't buy the excuse that the Secret Service is giving.
Normally, I look at situations like this. The litmus test I go by is, were they dumb or were they dirty? And I think normally it blends itself more to the former. But in this instance, there are just too many things that don't add up, and I think, you know, there is something more sinister at play here.
LEMON: So, listen, Juliette, you're shaking your head in agreement with what Mike said. But my question is, talking about that, can investigators try to recover the Secret Service text messages and figure out if they were deleted deliberately as Mike is insinuating here possibly?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL, PROFESSOR AT HARVARD'S KENNEDY SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT: Yes, they definitely could. The irony here is, of course, that the Secret Service is one of the major federal agencies that investigates data and forensic cases. So, the irony is, of course, they would never buy this argument from someone they were investigating. It is just too incredulous at this time.
What they can do is they can look and see whose other texts were deleted. So, if it just happens to be those 40 guys, what do they have in common? So, you are now going to now look at, were they friends, were they all on the same detail, were they all coordinated by a particular individual? You can also see who is texting whom.
So, you can go back to the telephone or the phone logs and the phone companies and determine if, you know, 202, 555, 1111 was calling these five numbers over the course of those two days, and then you can just identify who the agent was.
So, there is a lot of data backtracking. And this is what's important, the content of what is in those texts is important, there is no question about it, but what has already happened seems to prove the case that the Secret Service doesn't want us to see those texts.
I find it, like Michael, incredulous at this stage, that they want us to buy this argument that they happened to have a data transfer in the very month that there is a presidential transition and a new president coming on board, which is what the Secret Service is in charge of, and we are told twice that they were not to delete anything and this just happened. You know, cry me a river at this stage.
LEMON: Well, Mike, talk about this because does it make any sense to you that the Secret Service would trust employees to voluntarily backup their information considering the level of work that they are responsible for? I mean, the president of the United States, the vice president and so on.
FANONE: Yes, I don't know any agency that trusts the, you know, the holder of whatever the devices to back up their own data.
I mean, Metropolitan Police Department, my former agency, we are a little late in the game when it came to issuing personal devices, but I know from spending, you know, the last month or so with the department working in the technological and analytical services bureau, that even a broke department like ours still had the sophistication to back up data and when devices were upgraded, that data was stored and preserved.
LEMON: Yeah. Mike, in Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker's book, "I Alone Can Fix It," they reported that Mike Pence refused to get in to the Secret Service car in January 6th --
KAYYEM: Right.
LEMON: -- because he was worried his detail would take him away from the Capitol against his wishes.
[23:25:05]
What do you know about that? What does that say to you?
KAYYEM: Me?
LEMON: That's for Mike. I asked for Mike, but go on. Go ahead, Mike.
FANONE: For me, it says that there is a level of distrust between Mike Pence and the individuals that were going to be evacuating him from the Capitol complex. I can't speak to, you know, what was in his mind at the moment, whether he was concerned about whether they bring him back to the Capitol so that he could, you know, finish his work or whether, you know, there was something more worrisome that he was concerned about. But, certainly, a level of distress.
LEMON: Yeah. Julia, go ahead.
KAYYEM: I would agree with that. I mean, Pence knows that if he leaves the Capitol, the constitutional duty will be harder because what Trump has on his side's delay. The longer Trump can delay this, the more mayhem there is going to be, the more violence, the more questions, and then his media outlets say, what is going on, we have to do a do-over, and people lose boxes of electoral votes.
This was Trump's goal. The longer you can delay it, the more -- as he said, let me take care of it, right? You create the noise, let me take care of it, the more lawsuits that would be brought.
And so, I do think that Pence understood that his physical presence at the Capitol was essential because if he leads, it is not at all clear when he's going to be able to get back, and he, constitutionally, is the one who has to certify the votes that they.
So, whatever you think of Mike Pence, he made the right judgment call, never leaving the facility. You do not leave that facility because you don't know when you're getting back.
LEMON: Mike, we know there were firearms at the Ellipse on the morning of January 6th. So, what didn't officials clear out the mall? Why was Trump allowed to be in the vicinity of someone with an AR-15?
FANONE: Well, that's a great damn question, Don. I still don't have -- I still don't think that we've gotten a real answer to that from the Secret Service.
You know, one of the things that led me to the conclusion that, you know, that these text messages being deleted was nefarious was the totality of the circumstances when it comes to the Secret Service's behavior on January 6th.
Think about it. You have individuals who are being reported by law enforcement in possession of firearms. One specifically that I remember played by the Select Committee, a radio transmission where an individual was in a tree with an AR-15. How that would not garner a reaction from the Secret Service that would remove the president from that area, shut down, you know, any activities that were taking place is just mind-boggling to me. It makes absolutely no sense.
KAYYEM: That's exactly right.
LEMON: Yeah.
KAYYEM: I have to just add one thing. And then five minutes later -- couple hours later, Mike is exactly right. Number two, Pence is under threat. Number three, Nancy Pelosi is under threat. There is no way you leave Trump in the Oval Office. He is going downstairs. He is going into hiding, if you're doing this right because you have number two and three under threat, and that never happens, right? So, I'm exactly with Mike which is, you know, this is not right.
FANONE: And, Don, as if that wasn't crazy enough, after all of this takes place, the Secret Service then requests my former department, the Metropolitan Police Department, to assist them in securing a route to transport Donald Trump to the Capitol complex. I mean, that and of itself is insane.
LEMON: Yeah. It's got to be frustrating, too. The previous question that I had, when people say -- when you hear Trump supporters and conservative media saying, there were no firearms, you know, on January 6th, that none have been -- nobody was armed, that's got to be frustrating, especially for people like you who helped to defend the Capitol.
KAYYEM: Yeah.
FANONE: Yup.
LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
FANONE: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Trump aides testifying to the January 6 Committee but when Republicans speak out against Trump, the backlash from within their own party begins. That's next.
Plus, a great white shark washing up on a Long Island beach today. Look at that.
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[23:30:00]
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LEMON: So, tomorrow, we are set to hear from the people who were right next to then president as he watched on TV when Trump supporters and rioters stormed Capitol Hill, but how are Republicans reacting to what they are seeing and hearing? Let's talk about it.
Mark Leibovich is here. He is the author of "Thank You for Your Servitude." Mark, such a pleasure to have you on. Thanks for joining us this evening. Let's get right to it.
We have heard from so many full-on Trump supporters, from Attorney General Bill Barr to Ivanka Trump, disputing the election lies. This is the innermost circle, but they don't call him (INAUDIBLE) for nothing. I mean, give me your take on how these hearings are being taken by Republicans.
MARK LEIBOVICH, AUTHOR: Well, I mean, it's pretty striking, just the silence. There has not been a big line of Republicans running to his defense. And what's been so striking about this is the witnesses are all by and large Republican.
[23:35:02]
These are people who were in the room. These are not peripheral figures, obviously. And I think, you know, one of the central questions I ask in the book is, how could Donald Trump remain so Teflon in over six or seven years to a point where he probably, you know, if he wants, he could run for president again and be the nominee of the party? And I think the question is -- no one really stood up to him and continues not to stand up to him.
And yes, I think these hearings have been kind of an object lesson on what sort of quiet courage or quite sort of patriotism in telling the truth, you know, can look like. But ultimately, it stands very much in contrast to the cowardice and the silence that we have heard from pretty much every step of the way. I think without the Republican Party, Donald Trump wouldn't be possible.
LEMON: So, for your book, you spoke with former Wyoming Senator Alan Simpson. He told you -- quote -- "This is not a Republican Party anymore. It's a cult." I mean, that's what he says, right? Wow! But does January 6 hearing combined with the weakness of President Biden right now have some people looking to, you know, maybe deprogram?
LEIBOVICH: Well, maybe. I mean, I think -- I don't particularly buy the notion that Donald Trump is really as weak or weaker in the Republican Party than he might have been. Look, I think, he is ultimately -- I think there are a lot of people who would like to move on. But I think, again, if he wants the nomination, he can have it. When you talk to -- I mean, when I did the reporting for this book, when you talk to people, Republicans, I mean, there's never been such a bigger gap between what Republicans will say privately about Donald Trump which is really quite contemptuous often, and what they will say publicly which is this is sycophancy that we have seen over and over and over again, humoring him over and over again which essentially had become the platform of the Republican Party over several years.
So, this is sort of who the Republican Party wants right now, and they haven't really stood up to him.
LEMON: I'm glad you said that because the perfect question for you is what Adam Kinzinger said to you about the difference between talking about Trump in public versus with your fellow elected Republicans.
Here's what he says. He says, for all but just a handful of members, if you put them on truth serum, they knew that the election was fully legitimate and that Donald Trump was a joke. The vast majority of people get the joke.
The thing is that we all know what happened to Republicans who have spoken out against Trump, and that is nothing good, Mark.
LEIBOVICH: Well, I mean, it depends how you measure it. I mean, there are certain people like Liz Cheney and Jeff Flake and Adam Kinzinger and Mitt Romney and a few others who actually take a longer view and say that they are playing for keeps.
I mean, this is history's verdict. They want their children to sort of looked proudly upon how they contributed during a very, very precarious moment in American history. They actually care about their legacy.
But there are also a number of instances in reporting this book where I would talk to Lindsey Graham or I would talk to Kevin McCarthy or any number of people and say, you know, do you worry about your legacy, do you worry about being remembered as someone who lied for Donald Trump?
And almost to a person, they were just contemptuous of the question. They would sort of look at me as if I had three heads and they would say, you know, why would I care about that? Like, where is the statue to Jeff Flake or Liz Cheney? You now, as if to say, there's really no reason to look beyond the day-to-day experience of keeping Donald Trump happy or not sort of triggering him in some way.
So, to me, it was a very short term and precarious game. And, you know, I would be talking to Kevin McCarthy and it would be like a big orange light fixture was about to fall on his head whenever I would mention Donald Trump's name. I mean, his body language would just sort of tense up and you could sort of see it over and over again. So, I think this whole --
LEMON: They are scared of him?
LEIBOVICH: -- that Trump has on these leaders are still, you know, very strong.
LEMON: I mean, viscerally (ph), you can see that. Physically, do you think it's fear? Was that fear you're seeing?
LEIBOVICH: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, in some ways, it's a joke. I mean, like, to use the old Washington phrase, you've got to get the joke. That's like an unspoken truth that wouldn't be prudent to say on the record but we all know what we are dealing with here.
I think by and large, many Republicans will say privately that they understand that Donald Trump is not fit to be president. At worst, he is a criminally dangerous character.
LEMON: Yeah.
LEIBOVICH: But again, it's a bad career move to say it in public and self-perpetuation is sort of the drug that keeps them here. So, they are going to, you know, make whatever deal they are going to make.
LEMON: The quote from Lindsey Graham that he told you was he's good for business which means that this is all about personal gain and that's not going to change.
Mark, let me ask you, you spoke with the former Republican congressman who told you that the party's only real plan for dealing with Trump this 2024 -- in 2024 is to -- quote -- "waiting for him to die." You say --
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: -- the only other strategy is to hope he goes away. That's it? That's all they got?
LEIBOVICH: Yeah. I mean, to emphasize, this was a member -- a Republican member of Congress saying this to me.
[23:39:58]
And essentially, I think it goes very -- it's obviously a dark view but it goes to the passivity of so many people in the Republican Party, just sort of hoping the problem goes away on itself and we don't have to do anything.
You know, to me, that's the ultimate path of least resistance. I think, if you want to change something in politics, you should speak up. I think history will probably remember those who have more favorably than those who have not.
LEMON: This is beyond the book, your sort of personal view. Are these hearings penetrating at all?
LEIBOVICH: Much more than I thought than they would. I really had fairly modest expectations. But I think they have been tremendous. I think they have been handled really well.
I love the fact that the members of the panel are giving these long speeches. I think ultimately, the fact that the Republicans have been largely the witnesses -- I mean, Republicans who have been in the room have been very effective.
And it's been pretty simple. I am pleased. I hope they continue. Ultimately, you know, there is going to be a blockade of information among the big part of the country, but I think it's been pretty good so far and I hope it continues.
LEMON: Mr. Mark Leibovich, thank you, sir. The book again is called, "Thank You for Your Servitude." And we appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much, okay?
LEIBOVICH: Thanks, Don. I appreciate it.
LEMON: An unarmed Chicago 13-year-old now paralyzed after a police shooting. CNN exclusively obtaining the body cam footage. We are going to show it to you right after this.
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LEMON: CNN exclusively obtaining body camera footage of Chicago police shooting an unarmed Black 13-year-old. Attorneys for the teen saying that he had his hands up and was turning around to surrender after being pursued when an officer shot him. Now, he is paralyzed.
Here's CNN's Omar Jimenez. But I have a warning for you, some of the content in his report is graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Drop the gun!
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They were the final moments of a foot chase.
(GUNSHOT)
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Body camera video obtained exclusively by CNN showed how it ended with a Chicago police officer shooting an unarmed 13-year-old who was running from a stolen vehicle and who, lawyers and some witnesses say, had his hands up.
The 13-year-old's attorney say the teen was trying to surrender. The officer's attorney says, in a split-second decision, he thought the teen's cellphone was a gun.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Jesus (bleep) Christ, dude!
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah (bleep).
JIMENEZ (voice-over): That was the reaction of the officer next to the shooting officer after shots were fired. UNKNOWN (voice-over): Is anyone hit? (INAUDIBLE).
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Shortly after --
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Someone is hurt (ph).
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Two officers grabbed the 13-year-old who had just been shot by his sweatshirt and legs, and carried him away from the gas pump where he was laying.
ANDREW STROTH, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: They dragged him with no regard for this young man. Pulled him like a rag doll away from the pump to another area after he had already sustained a major injury to his back.
STEVEN HART, PARTNER, HART MCLAUGHLIN & ELDRIDGE: They're supposed to value the sanctity of human life. There was no value here.
UNKNOWN: Officers believed they likely struck those gas pumps.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Chicago police later said they were concerned a gas tank might have been hit by gunfire and could explode. The shooting officer, Noah Ball, did not have his body camera activated until roughly 40 seconds after the shooting, as he asked another officer if his is on.
NOAH BALL, CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER (voice-over): Is the camera on?
UNKNOWN: Yeah, yeah.
BALL (voice-over): Okay, good.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Ball's camera being off was inadvertent, his attorney told CNN. But inexcusable, the teen's attorney is saying.
HART: So, the suggestion that, hey, maybe this was just a temporary absentmindedness because he was involved in a pursuit, they know that they're supposed to engage their cameras, and it's up to them to do it.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): The 13-year-old was a passenger in a suspected stolen car when officers tried to stop it. Police say he jumped out and started running. Then, right as he turns and appears to raise his hands, he's shot at least once, leaving him now paralyzed from the waist down, his attorney says.
(On camera): And, for you all, at least, it is clear that his hands were up.
STROTH: His hands were up. There was no justification for the officer to shoot.
JIMENEZ (on camera): And he was unarmed.
STROTH: Clearly unarmed.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): And at least some bystanders on the scene appear to agree.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): He had his (bleep) hands up!
JIMENEZ (voice-over): One witness who did not want to be identified said --
UNKNOWN (voice-over): His hands were up. And I'd seen the cop (INAUDIBLE) just started shooting.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): But attorney for the shooting officer is looking less at where the hands were and more what he says his client thought was in them.
Attorney Timothy Gray wrote to CNN, in part, Officer Ball reasonably believed that the object being pointed at him was a firearm. It ended up being a cellphone. But Officer Ball had to make a split-second decision as he had no cover and no concealment. He discharged his service weapon to stop the threat.
The teen's attorneys argue he was trying to surrender and that the pursuit should've happened in the first place.
STROTH: There has been no charges against him. He was in a stolen vehicle, and he ran away. He ran away. And that is why he was shot in the back and paralyzed from the waist down.
[23:49:56]
HART: If all you need is to have someone flee from the police to justify a shooting, we got real problems in this city and in this country.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Now, Don, the teen's attorneys dispute there was ever anything in his hands at all and argued there is no definitive video to prove it. They, along with the family, have now filed a federal lawsuit against the Chicago Police Department in part to account for the teen's life that has now been altered forever because of these injuries.
The Chicago Police Department could not comment on the shooting because it is still under investigation by Civilian Office of Police Accountability but they did confirm this officer was stripped of his police powers at least two days after this shooting, pending the outcome of that investigation. Don?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Omar, thank you. We will be right back.
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[23:55:00]
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LEMON: For the past two weeks, I have been talking about shark sighting near beaches on Long Island and Cape Cod. Well, I want you to take a look at this. It is a dead shark said to be a juvenile great white approximately 7 to 8 feet long. Look at that thing washing up just this morning on Long Island beach.
Police in Quogue, New York rushing up to take photos after being alerted by resident. But the town's mayor says the Atlantic Ocean was so rough earlier today that the shark washed back out to sea before anyone could come and secure it, and he warned swimmers and boaters to be extra careful with the carcass somewhere out in the water.
The shark is being spotted so close to shore. Sone Long Island beaches have been forced to close temporarily. So, state officials are using enhanced beach patrols, drones, and helicopters to monitor the situation. Be careful.
Thanks for watching. Our coverage continues.
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