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Don Lemon Tonight

Queen Elizabeth's Body Now In St. Giles' Cathedral; King Charles Emphasizes His 17-Year Marriage With Wife Camilla; Subpoenas Issued To Trump Associates; Russian Troops Retreats, Ukrainians Reclaim Territories; Evidence Of Brutality Found In Russian Occupied Areas. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired September 12, 2022 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Well, if you think about 1952, right?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

LEMON: If you think about all of it, decolonial -- colonialization of this country. If you think about the civil rights movement, you think about, you know, Nelson Mandela, South Africa, you think about 9/11, all just, I mean, amazing. I sit up at night because I have this adrenaline when I get home. And I just flip through the channels here and watch, every single channel has a documentary about her.

COATES: Yes.

LEMON: And all of these pictures and stories about her life and the prince, meaning Prince Philip, her husband, and then Prince Charles as he was a child and Anne and on and on and on and on, meeting with every dignitary in the world over the last 70 years just the -- it's just historic the life she has led, the people she's met and what she's seen.

COATES: It's I mean, it's so true. No wonder, I mean, just think about it. Imagine, imagine, if you will, world that we have one constant force, a person who can advise and give counsel and warn who's in the ear of every president here since Harry Truman. Can you imagine what that would be like --

LEMON: Yes.

COATES: -- to have that consistency?

LEMON: Yes.

COATES: And by the way, not for nothing as they say, we can talk all we want about a monarchy and the shortcomings and all these things, but our democracy is being tested. Our democratic principles are often being tested, and so we all live in a virtual --

LEMON: Yes.

COATES: -- political glass house. We explore it. LEMON: Yes. And then we have someone who is acting like a monarch,

but was a former president.

Thank you, Laura. I'll see you tomorrow.

COATES: It's good to be the king.

LEMON: Have a good night.

COATES: Let us know.

LEMON: This is DON LEMON TONIGHT. And there's lots going on tonight here in the U.K., back at home and around the world.

We've got new developments tonight on the special master and on subpoenas going out to Trump associates.

And later in the broadcast, has Ukraine turned the tide against Vladimir Putin? All of that straight ahead.

But I want you to take a look at these pictures. Pretty amazing. People are still lining up in Edinburgh, where it is a little after three in the morning, waiting for their chance to pay their respects to the queen. The only monarch most of them have ever known. And many told CNN if they had to stay all night, they would certainly do it.

Looking at live pictures now St. Giles' Cathedral in Edinburgh, Scotland. Being in the U.K., in Edinburgh where we were earlier or here in London outside of Buckingham Palace where we are right now, you can feel the history in the making.

But as we're watching history being made, we're also watching a family in mourning. I just want you to take a look at another picture. One that really says it all. That we're all family. Tweeting out this photo of King Charles, his sister, Princess Anne, his brothers, Prince Andrew and Prince Edward, holding a vigil at St. Giles' standing silently around the queen's coffin. Mom, mom to them. A family their private mourning shared with the public.

The queen's coffin making its final journey to Buckingham Palace tomorrow. And it comes as London is getting ready for an event like nothing this city has ever seen before. The coffin will travel in a silent procession from here at the palace to Westminster Hall on Wednesday with members of the Royal family walking behind.

And the hall will be open 24 hours a day until 6.30 in the morning, local time on the day of the queen's funeral. That's next Monday. Massive crowds expected as the British people prepare to say goodbye to their queen.

The government warning the public that they'll have to wait for hours, possibly overnight. Details of state funeral in Westminster Abbey are expected in the next few days.

I want to get straight now to CNN's Richard Quest in Edinburgh, and here with me outside Buckingham Palace, Royal historian, Elizabeth Norton, author of "England's Queen," and CNN contributor Bidisha Mamata.

Thanks to all of you for joining. Good evening.

Richard, we'll start with you. The public in Edinburgh paying their respects to the queen throughout the night before her coffin has flown to London. So tell us about what we saw today and the emotions felt by everyone, both you and I were there experience -- experiencing it together. It was -- it was quite a thing to witness.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Today -- good evening, Don. Today was the first time, if you will, it's where the formal proceedings got underway. The queen having arrived here the previous night and being laid to arrested Holyroodhouse Palace.

So today was really the get go. We saw, first of all, the king arrived in Edinburgh. The warm welcome and the greetings and the -- he even did a walkabout with his queen consort, excuse me. And then you have this moment, two principal moments.

Firstly, when the royals walk behind the hearse as it goes down -- goes up Princess Street. And then secondly, when they're standing around the coffin in vigil. Unbelievably moving. But the people here, those who watching on television and those who were filing through it was a chance to connect and it was a chance for the royals to connect back and say, yes, we are here. And this is -- this is the way we are.

[22:05:09]

LEMON: I want to bring in Elizabeth. Now, Elizabeth, King Charles addresses -- address the Scottish parliament and talked about his mother's admiration for Scottish people. What did Scotland mean to the queen?

ELIZABETH NORTON, ROYAL HISTORIAN: I think Scotland was so important to the queen. Of course, the Royal family, you know, have such a strong link to Scotland, particularly through Queen Victoria who purchased the Balmoral estate. And it's always been a favorite residence of the queen.

It's somewhere she can retire. It's somewhere where she can sort of, she could be herself to some extent because she's behind the walls of the estate and people in the local area seemed to have known her quite well. But I think Scotland is really important to the Royal family.

LEMON: Well, and listen, as I understand, as it got towards the end of her life, she planned to spend and was spending more time there because quite frankly, that's where she wanted to die. Am I correct with that?

NORTON: That's what I would say, so, yes. I mean, certainly we know she was quite frail towards the end of her life and Scotland is a place where she's probably got the most happy memories I would say.

LEMON: Bidisha, this is for you. And I want to play a little bit more of what we heard from King Charles III addressing the parliament today, Scottish parliament. Watch. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING CHARLES III, KING OF UNITED KINGDOM: I take up my new duties with thankfulness for all that Scotland has given me, with resolve to seek always the welfare of our country and its people. And with wholehearted trust in your goodwill and good counsel as we take forward that task together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Bidisha, clearly, he's looking towards the future there. What does the monarchy, the monarchy's relationship with Scotland look like going forward?

BIDISHA MAMATA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's really interesting that he says our country. Because to me, that is him being political in a way that he's not supposed to be political. Why? Because you might have a Scottish independence vote coming up. You might have activism around that. And I think he's really saying, well, no, but we see us -- we see us as all one together because of that family connection.

To pick up on what you were saying about why the royals like Scotland so much. They like its frankness. They like that people don't stand on ceremony. Now we've got to be careful about national stereotypes here, but I think there's an enormous sense of the royals being able to suddenly relax and be free when they're up in Scotland.

LEMON: When she started to visit Scotland as a queen, I understand that she would often dress in sort of her normal clothes. She wouldn't wear gloves because she was trying to relate to the people there who were, quite frankly, this is according to what I've read, more down to earth, so to speak.

MAMATA: Yes.

LEMON: And they weren't bent on ceremony as much as possibly people in London. Am I correct? With other people here.

MAMATA: I think that would be a fair supposition that she would put away the pearls for the evening and put on a lovely heather Woolley jumper, because of course it's the countryside and it's cold there, and it's very difficult to heat a castle, but that's a dilemma I would love to have.

LEMON: Yes. Richard, we saw images of Charles III and his siblings surrounding the queen's coffin at St. Giles' Cathedral. All four of them together. What are we expecting throughout the week here culminating with the funeral on Monday. I know there are going to be huge crowds, and we'll possibly see more of the Royal family, more members of the Royal family.

QUEST: I think, right. So as the week moves on now the queen's body will be taken here, from here in Scotland and taken to London tomorrow where it'll rest tomorrow night. That's when Tuesday night at Buckingham Palace. And then we get to the very big set piece events. The procession, which we haven't got the full details of, but it will be massive as the coffin goes from Buckingham Palace through to Westminster Hall where she lies in the state.

Three or four days, four days, if my math says correct, where thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, certainly they estimate more than 200,000 will file pass. And then it will all move to next Monday morning, which is when the body goes to the Abbey, to Westminster Abbey. And 200,000 people. That's about the maximum that the abbey can take, which is why world leaders have been told you can bring a spouse, but you can't bring a delegation.

LEMON: Interesting. Elizabeth, we were talking about the relationship with the monarchy to Scotland, it's understood that William is going to -- Prince William is going to take on a previous Scottish title. Do you think that this is going to help strengthen this bond? He's quite popular there.

[22:09:58]

NORTON: He is quite popular. So, he'll be duke of Rothesay, which is the traditional title of the heirs to the Scottish throne going way back into the medieval period. So, I think it's really significant because of course, King Charles was always known by that title north of the border before his accession and Prince William is so popular.

So, I think if we start to see more of him going up into Scotland actually, I think it will help the monarchy's popularity.

LEMON: Everyone is saying the national Anthem at the -- at the end of the ceremony today at St. Giles'. Let's listen to that and then we'll discuss. Watch this.

(GOD SAVE THE KING PLAYING)

LEMON: You're smiling, Bidisha, why is that?

MAMATA: Because I was wondering if gracious is exactly the word I'd use to describe Charles. I wonder if they could tweak some of those, those lyrics a little bit.

LEMON: Meaning?

MAMATA: I could choose sort of, historical, I don't know. There are lots of these words. It's going to sound jarring for a little while because for anyone who's 70 or younger, they haven't known anything other than God saved the queen.

I mean, it's ingrained in you. It's the kind of song that you have to sing your way through as a little kid.

LEMON: Yes.

MAMATA: It's a bit like the Lord's Prayer. You sort of know all of the words without realizing you know all the words.

LEMON: Yes, it's interesting because I was watching the -- a woman who sung it at the U.S. Open for the first time because there was a Brit won the U.S. Open. And she said, I was, I -- even though there are only a few words that changed I was hoping that I would get them correct, get them right, because I had never sung it before. And she said the other one is just ingrained in me, Elizabeth.

NORTON: It's going to be an enormous change, I think, not just the words of the anthem but sort of getting our heads around the fact that we have a king now, and actually we're going to have a king for the foreseeable future.

But as you know, we've only ever known a queen. You have to be very, very elderly to even remember a time before the queen. So, it's going to be tough, I think.

LEMON: And Richard, is it an enormous change for the country? I mean, do you think it's going to be that big of a change going from a queen to a king.

QUEST: We don't know. I mean, is there a difference in a sense of perception to have a male monarch versus a female monarch who was much loved? We don't really know. We do know that the head will change on the stamps. The head will change on the currency where you see, E.R., it will become CER and that there will a total change in that sense, our passports will have his majesty on not her majesty.

But this, these are of you like the e trappings of the monarchy, the visible side. How indelibly it shifts to a new, arguably more engaged activist in a sense monarch in mind, if not in spirit or action, that is how I think we will see the change.

It will be slow to begin with, but I think in five years' time, Don, if you and I were talking, we would say there is an absolute different feel to the institution. And by the way, on this question of God saved the king, of course, as Americans know, you have words to that very song yourself. You just got to remember that when you are in Britain, you sing God saved the queen, not your version.

LEMON: I know Richard and I know that --

QUEST: To king, God saved the king.

LEMON: -- because we were each singing it today as they played it, God say the king and I was singing God bless America is the exact same tune just different lyrics.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I'll see all of you very soon. Richard, get some rest please, because you're back here tomorrow with me.

QUEST: Thank you.

LEMON: So as the British people mourn their queen, the U.K. is facing one problem after another with an untested prime minister. And now a new monarch, are they prepared to confront the challenges straight ahead?

Plus, here at home, new developments on the special master and new subpoenas to a whole lot of people in the former president's orbit. And in Ukraine, does President Zelenskyy's forces turn the tide? Our report on the ground coming up.

[22:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: I realize everyone it is my country chis of the - I'm going on no sleep, so cut me some slack.

Let's move on now. Sources selling CNN tonight the Justice Department has issued grand jury subpoenas to more than 30 people in the orbit of former President Trump as a criminal investigation of the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol heats up.

I want to go right now to CNN political correspondent, Sara Murray and senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, a former federal prosecutor.

Hello to both of you. Thanks for joining.

Sara, what more are you learning tonight about these subpoenas from DOJ and who they're targeting?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, I mean, this looks like an effort from the Justice Department to sort of try to vacuum up as much information as possible from people in the Trump orbit before they get fully into this quiet period ahead of the midterms.

So, they've subpoenaed people like Bill Stepien, who was Trump's former campaign manager. They subpoenaed Brian Jack, who was a former White House political director. They subpoenaed Dan Scavino, a name we've heard a lot about a former deputy chief of -- chief of staff.

These are just a handful of the more than 30 people we're told got DOJ subpoenas, and the subpoenas are pretty wide ranging. They ask for things, you know, related to the fake elector plot, related to the save America PAC, which is Trump's, you know, main vehicle for fundraising in politics right now, they ask for anything, you know, if you've testified for the January 6th committee or provided anything to the January select committee, anything you gave that committee.

And some of them are asking for documents. Some of them are asking for documents and testimony. So, this is a pretty, you know, pretty serious intensifying of the Justice Department's investigation, Don.

[22:19:56]

LEMON: Elie Honig, so, more than 30 subpoenas aimed at Trump's orbit, what does that -- what does that suggest to you about where the DOJ investigation stand, and more importantly, where it could be heading, right?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Don. Well, look, it, it is raining subpoenas in Washington, D.C. tonight. This is really a barrage of requests for information. And I think it's one of the most concrete signs we've seen yet that this investigation is both broadening and intensifying in the focuses on the White House, as Sara said, dozens of people around Donald Trump are now required to give information.

And it's important to recognize this. These are grand jury criminal subpoenas. They cannot be brushed off. Take Dan Scavino, for instance, he was subpoenaed by the January 6th committee. He brushed it off. Nothing at all happened to him. He's now been subpoenaed by the grand jury. He cannot brush them off. If he does, he will get held in contempt and locked up.

So, these are much more serious, but it's also important to realize we're talking about big steps in an investigation here. Subpoenas frankly are the easy part. Every prosecutor has a stack of subpoenas on the desk. All you got to do is fill out the piece of paper. Yes, DOJ certainly thought hard about these, but the real work and the real test for Merrick Garland is going to lie in what he does with all this investigation. That is yet to come.

LEMON: Yes. Also today, Sara, there's more legal drama between Trump and the DOJ over the appointment of a special master. DOJ made a new court filing that was just hours ago after Trump seemed also issued -- issued a filing. What's going on here? Is this one filing after the other, one motion after the other?

MURRAY: Yes. There's all this wrangling still over, you know, who's going to be this special master. Who's going to be the third party who gets to sift through these thousands of documents that were seized from Mar-a-Lago?

Earlier today, Trump's team said they are not OK with either of the names Justice Department put forward. They didn't supply any reasoning for why that's the case, in a slightly conciliatory filing, I guess you say, the Justice Department said that they would be fine with one of the people on Donald Trump's list, as well as of course the two candidates they put forward.

You know, they said at least one of the candidates Trump put forward has experience on the bench. Also experience dealing with these kinds of sensitive documents, but ultimately, it's going to be up to the judge to pick the person. And we still don't know when she's going to make that decision.

LEMON: Elie, Trump's legal team also trying to say that the Justice Department hasn't proven that the seized documents are actually classified. Do you buy that.

HONIG: Well, look, I think on their face, we've all seen the photographs. They've certainly been marked as classified. You can see that as clear as the photograph. The question is, did Donald Trump ever declassify them? I think he probably had very broad authority to do so, but there's no evidence that he actually did do so.

So, just having the power is one thing. If you never exercised it, well, that's another thing. And Don, it's really important to keep in mind here. We have seen this playbook from Donald Trump before. He delays. And you know what, it works for him a lot.

And let's keep in mind, this search of Mar-a-Lago happened on August 8th. It is now September 12th. So, we are a month plus out. We still don't even know who the special master will be, or the first detail about how the special master will operate. So, this judge, Judge Cannon, she needs to take control of these proceedings, take control of her courtroom. The parties have not been able to agree. She needs to do her job and make some decisions and do it quick.

LEMON: Interesting. So, talk to me more about that. Why don't -- why don't you think she's doing her job?

HONIG: Well, she's hoping that the parties can come to some agreement. And judges do this sometimes, Don. They say, hey, prosecutor, defendant, or DOJ and person who's been searched, I want you to get together, work something out. A lot of times actually that works when judges sort of lock you in a room together, you have a way of getting to an agreement.

But this is Donald Trump. This is Donald Trump's legal team. Look, they're not even agreeing on DOJ's suggested two people his special masters. Judge Barbara Jones and Judge Thomas Griffith. I mean, you will not find two better respected across party lines jurists than Barbara Jones was a special master for Michael Cohen and Rudy Giuliani. Yet, apparently, Trump's team is not even OK with her. It's clear to me that the name of the game here is delay.

LEMON: Yes, I mean, you're thinking about such a sensitive material. I mean, you know, you don't want it to -- this to go on for so long.

Sara, the January 6th committee is set to meet in person hours from now to discuss whether to invite Trump and Pence to testify. What are you expecting?

MURRAY: Well, look, I mean, this is a big thing that the committee has been weighing, whether they want to formally request appearances from Donald Trump and from Mike Pence, you know, they don't necessarily think that either of these men are going to show up and testify before the committee, but obviously they're in this sort of final stage of their investigation before they have to write their report.

And they're weighing, you know, what will it look like in the record if we didn't even make a formal attempt to try to call these men, you know, these people at the center of our investigation and ask them to testify. You know, it's also something that's weighing on them as they try to decide whether they're going to make criminal referrals to the Justice Department for any of Donald Trump's conduct for all this.

[22:24:55]

Again, you know, a lot of this is ceremonial. A lot of this has to do with the record that they they're trying to set forward, but the legacy of this committee. And remember, this committee started down this path and started this work when we didn't have any real sense that anything was going on with the Justice Department beyond the people who actually stormed the capitol on January 6th. Now we know that the Justice Department is much further along.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, Sara. Thank you, Elie. I appreciate it. See you guys soon.

HONIG: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: You know, it's a time of historic change for the U.K., a new monarch and a new prime minister. How will Britain handle the global challenge it faces. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:29:59]

LEMON: In a matter of days, the U.K. got a new king and a new prime minister. What do these leadership changes mean for the British people already dealing with enormous challenges?

I want to bring in now, Dan Balz, he's a chief political correspondent for the Washington Post. Hi, Dan. Good evening to you. I appreciate you joining.

You have this new piece in the Washington Post, it is titled the queen is gone. Can Britain's untested leaders confront its problems, economy reeling, inflation spiking, big political challenges ahead. So, answer the question. Can they confront its problem.

DAN BALZ, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, WASHINGTON POST: Well, obviously, Don, this remains to be seen. And we know that Liz Truss, the new prime minister, was elected basically on the votes of fewer than a 100,000 people in Britain, which is a country of 67 million people given the oddities of the way Great Britain picks its party leaders and therefore the person who would become prime minister after Boris Johnson stepped down.

She's completely untested in this level. She was the foreign secretary, somewhat aggressive foreign secretary before she became prime minister. And I think that she will have to earn the respect and the trust of people at a time when there are enormous problems in Britain.

I mean, they're talking about projections of inflation rates that could come close to 20 percent next winter because of the energy issues that Britain has been plagued by slow growth and productivity for many, many years, recent prime ministers and there's been tremendous turnover in that office have not been able to deal with that.

And at the same time, she will be, at least temporarily, overshadowed by the arrival of King Charles III, who, as we are seeing is right now the most visible leader in Britain but has no constitutional responsibility to deal with the problems that Liz Truss and the -- and her government will have to deal with.

LEMON: Yes, you were reading my mind here. I was just wondering if having, you know, a new monarch or a new king, and a new prime minister, does it complicate -- how does that complicate things because he's getting all the attention right now. And at one point, you know, Liz Truss, well, at one point, some of the people here are wanting to get rid of the monarch, wanting to get rid of the king as a head of state.

BALZ: Well, that's been a recurring conversation there for many, many years. But I think that in recent times, principally because of the way the queen handled herself and the office of the monarchy, that institution at a time when institutions are generally in low regard, is in pretty good shape in Britain.

But that's in large part simply because of her and who she was and the longevity and the style and the way she handled herself. Charles is somebody who has been preparing for this, as everybody has said for, you know, for decades. He knows, you know, he knows what that office is about. He has been around the world, he knows people. But -- and he has some strong views on issues like climate, for example.

But being the -- being the monarch, he's not really in a position to do anything about that, but at the same time, I think the question is what will it take for him to become the kind of unifying figure that the queen was for many, many years. And she had some, you know, she had some missteps that she had to deal with, but over time earned that respect and frankly, the admiration and affection that we are seeing since she died last week.

He comes in, you know, with a sense of goodwill on the part of people. And we've seen that over the last few days. I think the statements he has made, the speeches he has given have been very smartly done and well put together. But, you know, in a sense, I'm not saying this is the easy part, but this is perhaps easier than what will come after that as people begin to look at him over a period of time.

And that that's a question and that could give rise to, you know, more questions about the monarchy somewhere down the line. Certainly not in the immediate future.

LEMON: Yes. But I mean, listen, you're right. She was so beloved. I want to continue to talk about to go in this vein a little bit longer. I mean, it's a big challenge for King Charles to keep the U.K. together. He has not been so beloved, throughout his life as a queen was.

Because there is talk in Scotland, I mentioned Theresa May, but there's talk in Scotland that pushing for independence again, other countries too.

[22:34:57]

BALZ: Yes. I mean, the issue of Scottish independence is something that's been on the table. There was a referendum of some years ago. It was rejected. But Nicola Sturgeon has talked about trying to do it again.

I was struck today, frankly by the speeches in the Scottish parliament, including from her about not just the queen, but the king, and the reverence that with which they talked about Queen Elizabeth, queen of Scots. But that issue will come back. And I think that what we are going to see with Commonwealth nations is more of them abandoning, you know, the monarchy as some have already done. Frankly, there's been, you know, there's been enough written in the last few days about Britain's colonial history. And that is something that probably the new king is going to have to address and deal with in one way or another.

So, these are challenging issues. They're, again, they're not dealing with inflation or figuring out Britain's role in the alliance in the war against Ukraine. But he has -- he has very big responsibilities and people are going to be watching him very closely to see in what ways he measures up to his mother. And in what ways he falls short.

LEMON: Dan Balz, a piece in the Washington Post titled, The Queen is Gone. Can Britain's untested leaders confront its problems. It's fascinating read. And we appreciate you joining us. Thanks so much.

BALZ: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: She is now known as queen consort. What are Camilla's royal responsibilities. That's next from London. And later, is Ukraine turning the tide against Vladimir Putin? Our report from the scene.

[22:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Queen Elizabeth's sons and daughter mourning their mother in Scotland today. Now all eyes are on the eldest son, the newly minted King Charles III and his wife, Camilla, queen consort. And he takes a throne in a moment of intense economic and political challenges for Britain.

Joining me now to discuss, CNN contributor Trisha Goddard, host of The Week with Trisha Goddard, and also with us, Sarah Richardson, she is a professor of modern British history.

Good evening to both of you. Sarah, you first. And most of the coverage of the king, of King Charles, we are seeing his wife, Camilla, who is now queen consort. We're seeing her by his side. Today, they went, they met members of the public together, as well as attending all the formal events.

Talk to me more about what the queen consort Camilla's role will be and what the difference is between a queen consort and just a normal queen.

SARAH RICHARDSON, PROFESSOR OF MODERN BRITISH HISTORY: So, the role of the queen consort is basically to support the king. And, but not cause any scandals, I guess. So she's got to be sort of there as a consistent presence, steadfast, meeting the public, doing the public relations aspects of the monarchy. She also in her own right supports different charities and causes but not to have a sort of a political identity or an identity apart from that of her husband.

Obviously, if you are a queen and you are a monarch, then that comes with a whole host of different responsibilities and particular public roles. So she's there as a support rather than as an agent, if you like, in her own right.

LEMON: Yes. I just want to look glance over my shoulder because I'm hearing horses. And I know there's -- I think they're going to be rehearsing some of the events that are going to take place over the coming days behind me. And that's just hearing horses there.

Trisha, let me bring you in. When Charles and Camilla were married, this was in 2005. The queen said that Camilla would be known as princess consort when Charles became king, but during the platinum Jubilee, just a few months ago, the queen changed her mind and then allowed Camilla to take the title of queen consort. What do you think change?

TRISHA GODDARD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think their relationship. Camilla has been really good for the relationship between the king and, you know, I keep saying going to say Prince Charles, but King Charles and his mother, because originally, they didn't seem that close, but Camilla is.

Having met her, I can tell you she's very, very down to earth. She's got a wonderful sense of humor. And she has worked tirelessly as we just heard with her charities. I'm a patron of her Royal osteoporosis charity, for instance. She's won many, many awards for her work.

And I think it's really noticeable that in two of his speeches now King Charles has made a point of saying my wife of 17 years. And you kind of think saying 17 years, you know, why not just my wife, but I think he's trying to emphasize the fact that he has been with Camilla. They have been married for a fair amount of time now. And it's kind of the unspoken thing because we can't deny that there is a great section of the British public who still mourn in Princess Diana. We just had a 25th anniversary of her death.

So, this is kind of trying to draw a line and say, that was then but this woman has been by my side, loyal and steadfast in much the same way as Prince Philip was for the queen, but she has been there the whole time and she is a great support. She's part of the whole deal, if you like.

LEMON: Yes. As I was going to ask you, is that the shadow of Diana, is that shadow constantly looming over the prince and now king.

[22:44:58]

GODDARD: Well, I don't think it is as much. It's slowly waning. However, when it comes to the actual funeral, if we see the princess walk behind the queen's coffin, her casket. Invariably, those sort of those, you know, the similarities come back up again. So, I think Charles is looking forward and trying to quell that. And I think Camilla will do that in her own right. Because she really does.

When anybody meets her, when people meet her, they realize that the rhetoric, you know, that style of woman kind of rhetoric couldn't be further from the truth. And it's kind of, dare I stick my neck out here, an upper class, almost French thing. I mean, affairs are not unheard of. Princess Diana had them herself as did Charles. So, I just think this is a new way of saying no, this is a woman who's standing steadfast behind me.

LEMON: Yes, Sarah, let's talk about the line of succession. It has shifted and Prince William now takes over his father's title of Prince of Wales, along with other titles. So, tell us what the future looks like for these younger Royals with King Charles at the top.

RICHARDSON: Well, I think the younger royals will be fundamentally in a sort of refashioning of the monarchy or the institution of the monarchy. The seven decades of the queen's reign meant that there was a lot of stability and consistency. But I do think that there is an urge or a desire to think about the monarchy and its place in the modern world.

So, we've seen Charles, for example, already indicating that he will slim down the monarchy, which means that for William, the Prince of Wales and his wife, they will take a much more active role because there will be fewer senior royals to do all of the functions and the duties.

I think we'll definitely see William and Kate on tour that you know, there's going to be a big push to showcase this new monarchy, the new institution post Queen Elizabeth across the world.

LEMON: Sarah, Trisha, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Is Ukraine winning the war with what looks like major advances in the east? We have a report from the ground, next.

[22:50:00]

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LEMON: Ukraine's President Zelenskyy says Ukrainian forces putting Russia on the retreat in the south and east of the country. Reclaiming more than 2,300 square miles with Russians also withdrawing from huge sections of the Kharkiv region. But as Ukrainian forces move in, they're already uncovering what may be Russian atrocities in formally occupied regions.

CNN's Melissa Bell is in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The tanks spoke to a hasty Russian retreat as Ukrainian forces swept eastwards over the weekend. Triumphantly raising the flag over Kupiansk on Saturday. Local police forces providing CNN with exclusive access to a key town now meant to be under Ukrainian control.

"We still feel uneasy because we've been bombed for four days in a row," says Vasil "and nothing certain yet."

Which only became clearer as we headed further in to Kupiansk.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

BELL: Aircrafts, helicopter shows everything. At first artillery strike too close for comfort. Then a second, much closer.

UNKNOWN: What?

UNKNOWN: OK.

BELL: That was the sound of artillery landing just next to our car, our armored car, we have come into Kupiansk hoping to get to that flag to see where it had been plotted only yesterday. But as you can see this Sunday afternoon it's still this scene of some pretty fierce fighting. We're hearing the sound of outgoing artillery fire. That was the sound of incoming.

The policeman tells us our car was deliberately targeted. Time for us to head back to those parts of Kharkiv region now fully under Ukrainian control after six long months.

PAVLO, UKRAINIAN SOLDIER: Generally, yes, people are happy. They feeding the soldiers, they are cheering, they're celebrating. Feel great. Feel like redemption. Yes. Eager to advance.

BELL: But in villages like (Inaudible), Ukrainian investigators know all too well what they'll find of Bucha and Borodyanka that were under Russian control for only a month.

"Yes, according to our information, we are recording war crimes in almost every village," he says. This, the body of one of two civilians killed in late February. An early victim of the invasion and evidence now of what six months of Russian occupation have cost.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BELL (on camera): In that village, four bodies recovered a tiny little village. They are now the subject of war crimes investigations. The first launched with regard to that new land captured as a result of the counteroffensives. What Ukrainian investigators expect is that there will be many more, Don.

LEMON: Melissa Bell, thank you very much for that.

Scotland saying goodbye to Queen Elizabeth as people in London prepare for her to lie in state. We're going to go through what we expect tomorrow.

[22:54:55]

And up next, straight ahead, I should say, the latest on the new DOJ subpoenas in the January 6th investigation targeting dozens in the former president's orbit.

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LEMON: Very emotional farewell to the queen of -- to the queen in Scotland, even in the middle of the night, it is just about 4 a.m. people still lining up to pay their respects before the queen's coffin heads to Buckingham Palace. These are live pictures now from St. Giles' Cathedral in Edinburgh, Scotland. It's all part of a highly orchestrated schedule ahead of the massive state funeral next Monday.

CNN's Max Foster has the latest now.

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The new king processing behind his mother's coffin in lockstep with his siblings along Edinburg's cobbled Royal Mile.

[23:00:00]