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Don Lemon Tonight

Queen Elizabeth II Makes Final Journey To Buckingham Palace Ahead Of The Funeral; Judge Unseals New Info From Mar-A-Lago Affidavit; Pentagon: Russian Forces Crossing Back Into Russia After Ukrainian Counteroffensive; Prince William Is Following In His Father's Footsteps. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired September 13, 2022 - 23:00   ET



DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Yeah, but can you imagine being a fly on that wall at that dinner tonight?

BIDISHA MAMATA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, JOURNALIST: What are they going to talk about? They are going to talk about small arrangements to do with the thing that is actually happening without realizing that billions of eyes are going to be on them.

LEMON: What are we going to see tomorrow?

MAMATA: We are going to see the opening up of a series of days of visits for the public to visit the queen and waiting. I've been asked by a number of people if it's going to be an open casket. That's TMI, that is not going to happen. It's going to be very sober. You can go and visit across 24 hours, and it is very, very somber. You go in silence.

And I'm imagining crowds just passing their way through step by step. It's going to be like this until the funeral on Monday, and the strange atmosphere that is in central London right now is only going to intensify and darken as the sheer meaning and significance of these events take hold.

LEMON: Scott, you have been here talking to people who have been gathering, you know, since the queen died here at Buckingham Palace and really all around. Why is it so important for them to be out, especially tomorrow? You know they are going to be out there.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, in huge numbers. And, look, I've asked this question a lot, and you can put people in a couple different categories. Number one, there are people who said that they want to, you know, witness history, they want something to tell their grandkids.

There are people in another category who are sort of the royal watchers, the people who go to all the jubilees, all the birthdays, all the celebrations that you can imagine, all the funerals.

And then there are the folks as well who genuinely seem to have some deep admiration and respect for this woman or maybe some sort of family connection as well.

Maybe they met her for five minutes three years ago or, for instance, I spoke to one American man yesterday who came all the way from Minnesota because his mom, his 82-year-old mother, is British and she sent him to say, look, Andrew, you need to go and pay your respects to this woman that we have admired for so, so many years as British citizens. So, I think there is a lot of that.

But the two words that keep coming up over and over again when you ask people about Queen Elizabeth II is duty and service. This is a woman who did her duty, did her service, did not always seek out the spotlight even though she is obviously the monarch of this country.

And definitely, people say that she was a unifier in a country that doesn't always seem that unified, especially across countries and across the four nations as well.

LEMON: Shannon, most people weren't even alive the last time we saw a British monarch lay to rest. The next few days really will be remarkable and steep of tradition. What are you expecting to see?

SHANNON FELTON SPENCE, FORMER BRITISH PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICIAL: That is right. So, there is a statistic out that has been floating around that only about 10% of the U.K. was actually even alive the last time that we laid to rest a monarch. So, that is really remarkable.

The next couple days are going to be a time for reflection, a time for gratitude for the queen. When her mother died in 2002, they saw 200,000 members of the public come through and pay their respects, and I'm reading reports that they're expecting more like half a million for the queen.

LEMON: Oh, wow! Loo, we know that Queen Elizabeth II was deeply involved in all of these plans. I mean, dotted every single detail. She understood what the people needed from the traditions and the ceremony of it all, the pomp and circumstance, as they say, right?

FELTON SPENCE: That's right, and she will have planned every single second of the past week, all the way to her funeral. Everything that we are seeing is going to be exactly how she will have wanted us to say goodbye to her.

And one of the things that was really interesting actually this week was, as we know, the queen has four children, the now king, then Princes Anne, Prince Andrew, and Prince Edward. At St. Giles's Cathedral in Edinburgh this week, the four children stood vigil alongside the coffin. And that has only happened twice before, once in 1936 when the queen's grandfather died, and then again in 2002 when her mother, the queen mom, died.

However, this was the first time that a female was included in the vigil. So, Princess Anne stood vigil with her brothers at the coffin and that has never happened before at the queen mother's -- excuse me, at the queen mother's vigil. It was just her grandsons. And in 1936, for George V, there were no sort of available suitable aged women and it was sort of not done then. So, I think this is really interesting that we are seeing this broader reflection of a modern Britain in the inclusion of Princess Anne in this way. You know, the U.K. has been so much better about inclusion in this way than the U.S. given that they were laying to rest the head of state for the past 70 years who was a woman, and they have had three female prime ministers, including the latest one who just took office last week.


So, this is really interesting. Like I said, this is exactly how the queen will have wanted us to see it. And seeing her daughter be equal in the mourning and the grieving in the public possession of this as her brothers, the queen's sons, is really remarkable. It is a mark of the changing of the times.

LEMON: Yeah. We were watching the hearse with the queen's coffin, and I'm never quite seen a hearse like that. I mean, she was involved in the detail of having the light in the glass so you can see through. Listen, some people have been camping out, Bidisha, for days to see this, to say goodbye to the queen. How do you explain this kind of devotion to and love for the monarchy?

MAMATA: It is exactly what we just heard. Some of the people have a personal connection, so they say, well, I was called Elizabeth after Queen Elizabeth. The overwhelming majority are just tapping into human nature, which hasn't changed in millennia.

When something happens, we go out into the streets, we look at whoever else is out, and we just all share the atmosphere. We are all greater than the sum of our parts. And when something is definitive as the passing away of a queen happens, of course, we rush to the palaces, the castles, the towers of London in England, all of these great historic buildings. We want to see the spectacle.

And, in fact, the royal family knows this. It is deeply -- not manipulative but calculated every second of this as being milked for its public spectacle, but also it is a form of self-power. This is international diplomacy, invite the heads of state, show them a good time albeit in a time of mourning, give them some little meetings. A lot of businesses happening here at the same time as the public mourning.

LEMON: How many people -- I think -- how many people are expected to show up, Scott?

MCLEAN: Well, obviously --

LEMON: Because she is going to lie in state until Monday.

MCLEAN: Yeah. Well, I mean, if Scotland is any indication, there were 33,000 people lining or who scroll past the coffin when it was on its way to Scotland for a day or two for the queen mother back in 2002. She lied in state for three days. There were some 200,000 people who were there for that, who filed past the coffin at that time. And obviously, they are expecting a lot more. So, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of people who will file past the coffin over a four and a half-day period. And actually, if you look at the route that they are expecting for the queue to go, Brits love an orderly queue, don't you?

MAMATA: Of course, we love that. It's our favorite thing in the world.

MCLEAN: Exactly. I mean, it really stretches right across central London. I mean, it goes from Westminster across the Lambert Bridge there, and then all the way along the South Bank, past the Tower Bridge, past the Tower of London, and then all the way back to Southwark Park. I mean, this is -- this span four miles. It goes past, I think, four different tube stations. You can access it by.

If you're showing up to the line, you're not actually probably going to know where you should start at any given point because you are not going to know how many people. So, it is going to take a heck of an effort just for people to find the back of the queue.

LEMON: Jenna Bush Hager was actually in Scotland, right, before the queen died for an interview with Camilla, but ended up meeting with then-Prince Charles. Here is how she explains it on the "Today Show." Watch.


JENNA BUSH HAGER, AUTHOR: We were supposed to have dinner and meet and talk --

HODA KOTB, NBC NEWS ANCHOR (voice-over): Uh-hmm.

BUSH HAGER: -- and the first thing we said is, she is so sad, her flight is delayed just like, you know, millions of people.

KOTB: Uh-hmm.

BUSH HAGER: But I did get to have dinner with Prince Charles --


BUSH HAGER: -- on the last night he would be prince.

MELVIN (voice-over): What was the atmosphere like there?

KOTB (voice-over): Yeah.

BUSH HAGER: We -- it was a lovely meal. I mean, he first said, he said, my darling wife is so sad. And I just laughed. I said to Henry, who was there, I said, you call me darling wife from now on.


BUSH HAGER: He said, I can't wait to sit down with you tomorrow.

(Voice-over): I was supposed to meet with the now-Queen Concert around 1:30.

KOTB (voice-over): uh-hmm.

BUSH HAGER: At 12:30, we heard sort of running up and down the hall. And it was her team and his team, who we had gotten to spend, you know, a year of conversations with.

KOTB (voice-over): Yes.

BUSH HAGER: But they came in and said, can you please be quiet, there is a call. And you're right, but we are right by then-Price Charles, now King Charles III's office, said he is on a call, can you please be quiet? And then, all of the sudden, we heard a helicopter, which they don't take lightly --

KOTB: Yeah.

BUSH HAGER: -- go off. And they came in and they said, your interview, which, you know, up until then, we knew they were excited about, has been postponed. They have just left for Balmoral.

MELVIN: And that's all the information they gave you at the time?

BUSH HAGER: They said the queen is ill, and they have gone and rushed off to be with her.


LEMON: Now, Shannon, of course, the queen was 96, but based on the story, it seems like her passing was a surprise to her son.

FELTON SPENCE: Well, first of, I just love Jenna and her telling of that story. It is so endearing. Jenna, you know, is used to being in those rooms as one of the daughters of the president, but then also, you know, as a journalist.


You know, Don, what these negotiations are like. You know, she would be very familiar with the subject by the time that she got there. I also think that this is so interesting because nobody knows what it is like maybe to lose a matriarch of a family quite like the Bush family does. And so, I am sure that her heart was just, you know, right there with them, and she sensed that urgency and sort of knew what was coming.

But, yes, I am told that this happened very quickly. So, Princess Anne was the only one who was there the night before at Balmoral. And I'm sure -- I heard that the queen took a real turn for the worst in the morning and that is why we got that really rush statement that really sort of signal to the whole world that something was devastatingly wrong, and the family all rushed to her side.

We know now that the only one who actually made it in time was the now king, King Charles, and was already there, and everybody else just didn't make it in time. So, it happened very quickly. Also, you know, she met the new prime minister just a few days earlier, and there was that photo of her. She was standing up, she was smiling, she looked lovely. She looked frail, she looked 96, but it is just remarkable that this took such a turn in 48 hours since that photograph.

LEMON: Thank you, Shannon. Thank you, Bidisha. Thank you, Scott. I appreciate it.

Make sure you join me and Anderson Cooper as we follow the queen's final journey through London as the United Kingdom honors her life. Live special coverage begins tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. Eastern time.

We got a lot more to come as the British people prepare for their final farewell to Queen Elizabeth and a new royal-era dawns.

Plus, a judge releasing new never before seen information from the Mar-a-Lago affidavit. What does it tell us about the DOJ's investigation?




LEMON: New tonight, a federal judge unsealing a less redacted version of the affidavit used to secure a search warrant for Mar-a-Lago.

For more now, I want to bring in CNN political correspondent Sara Murray and CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig. Good evening to both of you. Sara, what is new in this unsealed affidavit?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we are just getting a few more details. We are getting a little bit more detail about the classification markings that were on documents that the Trump team handed over to prosecutors. This is, of course, before the search at Mar-a-Lago in August. It has helped build a record leading up to that search warrant. Obviously, they point to very sensitive government programs underlying then.

We're also getting a few more details about what we heard was a subpoena, you know, for the surveillance footage at Mar-a-Lago. This document makes it clear that it was a subpoena for six months of video footage related to a basement room in Mar-a-Lago. So, a few more details shedding light on what led up to that search at Mar-a-Lago, Don.

LEMON: Elie, what can we tell -- what can you tell us about the DOJ investigation from this new unredacted detail?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Don, the first thing that sort of strikes me is that DOJ clearly is focused on obstruction of justice. We know that because that is one of the crimes that DOJ used to get the search warrant in the first place. But it shows us just how sort of intensely they're focusing on this surveillance video. They -- you don't just subpoena documents. You don't just subpoena months and months for surveillance video unless you have a good reason. And this shows me that the DOJ had some reason to believe that people were going into and out and documents were being moved into and out of this one secured storage area.

Also, one other interesting detail that comes through with the new items that were unsealed today is that DOJ -- we already knew that DOJ was lied to by somebody on Trump's team -- a lawyer put in a certification saying, we've given you all classified documents. Of course, there were still dozens more in there. And today, we learned that somebody, somebody told that lawyer, these are all the documents we have, didn't tell that lawyer about the other documents that were in Donald Trump's office and desk.

So, who that person is, I think, is really important issue that needs to be resolved.

LEMON: This is an important detail not in the documents, Sara, but the My Pillow guy --


LEMON: -- and Trump ally Mike Lindell, saying that the FBI served him with a subpoena for the contents of his phone. What details are you getting about that?

MURRAY: Yeah, he was at Hardee's, I guess, in Minnesota, and that is where he encountered the FBI. He shared some of these details with my colleague, Evan Perez. He shared some of these details on social media. He shared some of the documents on social media.

This all appears to be related to this investigation that has been going on in Colorado, into Mason County Clerk Tina Peters, and a breach of voting machines there. She has faced some state level charges which she has pleaded not guilty to. But there has also been this federal investigation that has been ongoing, and that appears to be related to that.

Mike Lindell actually made a joke to Evan Perez when he was talking to him, saying that he sorts of hoped that he was getting caught up in all the January 6 stuff. This does not appear to be related to that.

But nevertheless, still serious investigation about how allies of the former president were trying to get into these voting machines in various states, including Colorado.

LEMON: Did you say at Hardee's?

MURRAY: I said at Hardee's. Apparently, he was at Hardee's and that is where the FBI confronted him about needing to search his phone.


LEMON: That is a very interesting detail. Was "The Insider" at the drive-through? I'm kidding.

MURRAY: I believe he was at the drive-through.



LEMON: Sara, this new development comes after the DOJ subpoenaed more than 30 people in Trump's orbit. What do you know about this new round of subpoenas?

MURRAY: That's right. You know, we have been sort of digging into these subpoenas, digging into what folks are being asked for, and it is pretty clear, as you run through the list of people, what they're being asked for, what these subpoenas actually say, that the Justice Department just wants to soak up as much information as they can about every aspect of the former president's efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

So that means what went into the rally where the former president spoke on January 6, what went into the funding of those rallies and the spreading of these lies, what went into the fake elector scheme, and what went into spreading these falsehoods about election fraud in court.

You know, it's clear that they want to fill in the gaps. They want to establish this narrative and a better sense of everyone who is involved in these efforts, Don.

LEMON: Yeah. Elie, the DOJ started with rioters themselves and are moving up the chain right to Trump world. What is the end game here, and do you expect charges?

HONIG: Well, Don, yeah, I think you are right. I'm not even sure they moved up the chain. I think they've just sort of done their work at the Capitol with the respect to the rioters. I'm not sure there is even a link between the people who are wearing furry hats and face paint and storming the Capitol, and the people who DOJ is investigating now. What we have seen is an abrupt shift in focus to the people around Donald Trump.

And I think Sara put it well. DOJ is painting with a very broad brush based on what we know with these subpoenas. They're trying to essentially, as Sara said, soak up all the information they can.

Now, on the one hand, that is a good move, why not get as much information and evidence as possible? But on the other hand, when you serve a subpoena, if you have a specific idea what you are looking for, you will see a more specific subpoena.

It will say, I want the phone records for this particular day or week. I want the records of this particular financial transaction. The reporting is not that that is what these subpoenas contained. These subpoenas are basically all financial records, all phone records, you know, very broad brush. So, I think what DOJ is going to have to do is sift through that. Is there more of a threat to Donald Trump now than there was three or four months ago? No question about it. Will there be charges? That remains a very big question.

LEMON: Sara, the January 6 Committee is back to in-person meeting today. Do you have any word on who else is out there that they want to invite to testify?

MURRAY: They were back. You know, they were very coy on who they actually believe they are going to be able to get in front of them to testify, particularly at a potential future public hearing.

We know they have been weighing whether to formally call former President Donald Trump and former Vice President Mike Pence, not because they actually think that either of these men will testify, but because they think it is important for the public record. You know, they have said they are continuing to go back and forth with Ginni Thomas. They put out a note to Newt Gingrich asking for his voluntary cooperation.

But again, when it comes to the possibility of actually getting testimony or public testimony from folks at a future hearing, they are still holding their cards very close to their vest, Don.

LEMON: Hardee's. Interesting. Thank you both. I appreciate it.

HONIG: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: A stunning counteroffensive from Ukrainian forces. Now, the Pentagon is saying a number of Russian forces are crossing back across the border.




LEMON: Russian forces being pushed back in a fierce counteroffensive, which has now reclaimed more than 2,300 square miles of Ukrainian territory since the beginning of September.

Ukrainian officials claiming that they have liberated more than 300 settlements in just four days. And the Pentagon says that they have seen a number of Russian forces retreating back across the border as Ukrainian forces push into Kharkiv.

Joining me now to discuss is CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Colonel, thanks for joining us this evening. After a long period of stalemate, victories to report now, walk us through where things stand on the ground.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST, RETIRED AIR FORCE COLONEL: Sure, Don. Well, a lot of things have happened in the last few weeks, really. And, you know, when you look at this time lapse, you can see how far the Ukrainians have advanced out of Kharkiv. They've also conducted some advances in the south.

But the main thing here is from the beginning of September until now, so basically a period of 11 days, they have been able to achieve this kind of an advanced, which is really substantial given the kinds of situations that they found themselves in the beginning of this war.

LEMON: Colonel, what has changed? What is allowing the Ukrainians to push Russian forces back like this?

LEIGHTON: So, Don, the key thing -- there are basically two things that are very important here. Number one, of course, we have got the weapon systems such as the HIMARS, the high mobility artillery rocket system, that the Ukrainians are using to great effect.

This gives them a much more accurate ability in terms of firepower. This is a way in which they can actually target things that they have not been able to target before. They can use this in a highly-mobile fashion, and that gives them a very big advantage.

The second thing is the leadership of the Ukrainian military. This is a picture of General Valerii Zaluzhnyi. He is the commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. And his style of leadership, to get things down to the lowest level and allow people to have initiative at that lowest level, has made a huge difference in the ability of the Ukrainian forces to actually protect power and to do it in a very effective tactical manner.


LEMON: Colonel, Ukraine is pressing these counterattacks in two key areas. What are their key objectives as they push into these regions?

LEIGHTON: So, when you look at the Kharkiv region, for example, this is the area right around the northeastern part of the country. This is the Russian border right here. So, the key objective in this particular case is really a geographic objective, a terrain objective. General Hertling, our colleague and friend, has talked about this on Twitter.

So, in this part of the country, they're looking at taking terrain, taking rivers, taking hills, doing those kinds of things. But when you go down to the south, in the southern areas, you are looking more at a force on force type situation. So, the objective is to go after the enemy forces in those areas, and that is how they are differentiating between what they're doing here in the northeast and down here in the south.

LEMON: A Ukrainian official tells CNN that the advance has slowed as they push to retake the city, Lyman and Luhansk. It is an important railway hub. So, how important is that fight?

LEIGHTON: It is incredibly important. So, you know, when you look at the different areas here and when you look at some of the different areas in Ukraine, you are seeing major hubs that go through here, major railroads that go through these areas right here. The intersection of these roads and railroads is critical. And so, for a city like Luhansk, that becomes extremely important because that is the objective. That allows the Russians, if the Russians have it, it allows them to resupply their troops. If the Ukrainians have it, they can take that away from the Russians and give really an advantage to the Ukrainian forces and it, of course, diminishes the Russian capability of doing the things that they have been able to do in this part of the country.

LEMON: The Ukrainian military says that Russians are trying to gain ground in some regions. Ukraine says that they have successfully repelled attacks in the east. Is there a risk of Ukrainians getting overextended here?

LEIGHTON: There is. There is a risk because the supply lines do make a difference. The Russian supply lines really start in places like here. This is around Belgorod. And so, we will move into the Kharkiv area just to show this. Belgorod is this city right up here, and that is a major hub. So, once they can bring things down here, this puts those Ukrainian forces at risk.

But, if the Ukrainians move their supplies up, they can then prosecute the war effort into these areas and move into territories that the Russians have control for quite some time. If they do that, they will continue to gain the upper hand, continue to keep momentum, and that will, of course, make a major difference in the way that they prosecute this war.

LEMON: Colonel, thank you. It is a pleasure.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Don. Thank you.

LEMON: Ukrainians celebrating as their push liberates more cities and settlements, but the forward push is revealing a grim view into the life under Russian occupation. CNN's Melissa Bell reports from Ukraine.


MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Larisa Kharkivska is ashamed of what little she has, food given by the Russians.

Mainly rice, flour, and sugar.

For six months, she says, she and her 35-year-old daughter were virtual prisoners of their apartment, too scared to go out. The medical help Svetlana (ph) needs after an accident 15 years ago, impossible to get.

Most people, says Larisa, left Shevchenkove through Russia. Only the poorest left behind living on what they can grow, apples and watermelon mostly.

Larissa's empty fridge now her primary concern.

(On camera): Enough for one month. (Voice-over): She is embarrassed, she says. It will show the world

how empty it is. But tries nonetheless to offer us some of the watermelon preserves she has just made before showing us around a town liberated on Friday after several days of fighting. The shops now closed, where for six months, only affordable for Russian soldiers, she says.

LARISA KHARKIVSKA, SHEVCHENKOVE RESIDENT (through translator): They mocked people. Sometimes, they kill. They were so many of them, and they were so young.

BELL (voice-over): The arrival of Ukrainian soldiers, a relief for Larisa and her friend, Maria, but almost too much to digest.

MARIA, SHEVCHENKOVE RESIDENT (through translator): There is psychological abuse, and there is violence.


For me, psychological abuse is worse. We were sitting in a basement for two days, and then our husbands came and said our soldiers are here. And it was just tears of happiness.

BELL (voice-over): Happiness at the change of hands, but uncertainty still about how to survive and what the immediate future holds.

(On camera): Don, some of the much-needed humanitarian aid getting through after all those months, but remember that these parts of the country are still the subject of a media blackout and we have to be very careful about what we showed.

Right next to us, there is a police station where people were having their phones checked for any signs they might have collaborated with the Russians during those six months of occupation.

Remember that this is not just about an invasion by Russia, it is about a political system that was in place for six months. Ukrainians are now trying to secure the country even as they try and take back more of it and trying to protect themselves not just from the threat from without (ph), but newfound suspicions from within, Don.


LEMON: All right. Melissa Bell, thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Prince William, next in line to the throne, taking on a new title, Prince of Wales, and his role in the royal family is about to change.




LEMON: King Charles visiting Northern Ireland today, his first time as king, a role he spent decades preparing for. His eldest son, William, is following in his footsteps, becoming the Prince of Wales and next in line to the throne. William's wife, Kate, taking the title that was once held by her mother-in-law, Diana, the Princess of Wales. Now, the couple is preparing for when William may take the throne.

Here is CNN's Max Foster.


MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It used to be all hijinks and banter between William and Harry.

PRINCE WILLIAM, PRINCE OF WALES: It's pretty rich coming from (INAUDIBLE).


FOSTER (voice-over): Even after William married, there is plenty of fun to be had in front of the cameras.

Over the years, William gradually re-branded from a tireless young royal, mixing with celebrities and trendy parties, to a more formal, suited, and booted figure more fit for the throne.

According to sources, it was a deliberate formation as he moves steadily towards the top job as it is known. One step the Yorkshire prince, sources say, William wasn't in a rush to take on full-time public duties while he was settling down. First, marrying his soulmate, and then raising a young family. It was all about striking the right balance.

But from the moment his grandmother died, he became first in line to the throne, and with that, came and more weighty title.

KING CHARLES III, KING OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: I am proud to create him Prince of Wales, (INAUDIBLE), the country whose title I've been so greatly privileged to bear during so much of my life and duty.

FOSTER (voice-over): With that, the new Prince and Princess of Wales have been elevated in position and will now be expected to step up and support the king more.


FOSTER (voice-over): They inherit huge swathes of land through the Duchy of Cornwall, giving them an independent income for the first time. William's father reinvented the role of Prince of Wales by professionalizing it. It is no longer a ticket to a playboy lifestyle. William and Kate will have plans to making it their own.

But family will remain the major priority for both of them, with their children starting at a new school just last week. Both would be aware that the burden of royal duties is greater than they ever were, not just because the queen has passed, but because these duties were always meant to be shared with Harry, who has now given up his royal role. It leaves the monarchy, whether by design or by default, more streamlined than ever. The spotlight now firmly on the new Prince and Princess of Wales, the most high-profile in history.

Max Foster, CNN, Buckingham Palace, London.


LEMON: All right. Max, thank you very much for that.

I want to bring in now Nigel Cawthorne, an expert on royal family. Nigel, good evening. Thanks so much for joining.

We are learning that William and Harry had dinner together with the whole family tonight. There is so much intrigue about their relationship. It came as a surprise when they made this joint appearance the other day along with Kate and Meghan, especially after a turbulent couple of years. Do you think that the queen's death will bring them closer again?

NIGEL CAWTHORNE, BRITISH FREELANCE WRITER: I think (INAUDIBLE) disputes. And when someone dies, they all get together at the funeral. (INAUDIBLE) past, things seem -- I've seen a new light (ph).

LEMON: You know, CNN reported, Nigel, that the Prince of Wales thought that it was an important show of unity to do that, walk about together with Harry and Meghan at Windsor.


Do you think we will see more of that?

CAWTHORNE: Clearly, while Harry and Meghan are in the U.K., there is going to be more of that. In the longer term, if they -- once they fly back to California, we will have to see. Obviously, the other royals can't easily fly over to see the rest of the family because of the protocol involved and the other visits they will have to make if they make any sort of visit to the United States.

LEMON: There was also the moment during the king's address where he mentioned Harry and Meghan. Watch this.


KING CHARLES: And also, to express my love for Harry and Meghan as they continue to build their lives overseas.


LEMON: So, I believe that you think that that was an olive branch, him saying that. Do you think that he wants them back in the fold?

CAWTHORNE: Clearly, Prince Charles had a long effort to slim down the monarchy, which is kind of happening by default now because while the major players -- and Prince Andrew is really out of the running. And so, they really do need Harry back. And from Harry and Meghan's point of view, their careers in the United States haven't been particularly spectacular. Harry has made very little contribution, and Meghan's podcast have not been terribly well received. If their careers falter, obviously, coming back to the United Kingdom is a good option because it is essentially a job for life over here.

LEMON: Do you think the people of the United Kingdom would welcome them back with open arms?

CAWTHORNE: I think so. He has always been -- Harry has always been liked very much in the U.K. He has been seen of a bit of a wild character. It's all part of the show, isn't it? I mean, part of the whole purpose of the royal family is to entertain the public.

LEMON: Yeah. So much of the spotlight now falling on Prince William and Princess Kate. How do you think they are going to approach their new roles?

CAWTHORNE: I think they are pretty well prepared. I mean, they've been moved up the ranking quite quickly because William being sort of bold and boring is seen as a safe pair of hands and Kate is very sort of respectable, shall we say. We do not expect many scandals from her.

LEMON: The Prince and Princess of Wales, they are enormously popular. How much does that help the monarchy? Does it help them?

CAWTHORNE: It is absolutely vital that they are popular because Prince Charles, although he is figuratively better now, was enormously unpopular for a long time, especially after the break up with Princess Diana. He has always been seen as rather kooky, talking to plants, and very much into complimentary medicine.

Although he has done a lot of charity work, it has been seen that the finances have been very badly mishandled. Recently, there has been a bit of a scandal with the way he's been getting (INAUDIBLE) money from central Asia and Middle East.

LEMON: Thank you, Nigel. I appreciate it. Be well.

CAWTHORNE: Thank you.

LEMON: So, we have some other news. These results are coming in tonight on the final primary night before the midterms. CNN projects Karoline Leavitt will win the republican primary in New Hampshire's first congressional district.

She is an election denier, who was assistant press secretary under Trump White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany. After Trump's 2020 loss, she went to work for Representative Elise Stefanik, now the third-ranking House Republican.

So, there you have it. We will be right back.




LEMON: Former independent counsel Kenneth Starr has died. For many years in the 1990s, he was a household name. He investigated Bill and Hillary Clinton's involvement in the Whitewater real estate deal. The Clintons ultimately were not prosecuted in that case.

But Starr's investigation of the Clintons' dealings later led to Starr's investigation into the president's affair with Monica Lewinsky. Clinton was impeached for lying under oath and obstructing justice, but was acquitted of the charges.

Starr was an outspoken conservative Republican and was accused of going after Clinton for political reasons, accusations that Starr rejected. Kenneth Starr's family says that he died of complications from surgery. He was 76 years old.

Thanks for watching, everyone. Our live coverage continues with John Vause.




JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is "CNN NEWSROOM."

In the hour ahead, gear adrift is a gift. The huge win for military hardware abandoned by Russian soldiers in the chaotic retreat now in the hands of Ukrainian fighters.

And now on to London as crowds begin to gather to pay their respects to Queen Elizabeth II while she lies in state for four days.

And the final primary race ahead of the U.S. midterm election and what it says about the problems facing the Republican Party.


UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from CNN Center, this is "CNN NEWSROOM" with John Vause.