Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
Trump's Team Scores Another Win; Republican Governors Using Migrants As Political Pawns; DOJ Weighs Mark Meadows' Veracity; President Biden To Meet New British Prime Minister; Roger Federer Retires From Tennis World. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired September 15, 2022 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Hey, that's it for us tonight. I'll be back tomorrow night. DON LEMON TONIGHT starts right now. Hey, Don Lemon. Wait. No, no. Should I say, good morning, Don Lemon. There's some news. I'm excited.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: The peanut galleries over here. What -- I have no idea what you're talking about, Laura Coates.
COATES: What? You don't know anything where you, you know what, maybe you're on London time still.
LEMON: I --
COATES: But there's some big news here, state side on this side of the pond.
LEMON: I am exhausted. I just got back today and I -- what a time to be on the plane when this happened. And then I get off the plane, and my phone literally was blowing up. It has been heated all day.
Let me just say that it's bittersweet for me because I work with the best team in this building. One of the best teams in this business, and we built this show out of nothing. This show was not supposed to exist. And because I have such fantastic producers and writers and, you know, Maria Spinella who's my executive producer, my senior producer, Philippa Holland, the person who writes everything that comes out of my mouth, not everything, but you know, the things that make sense. Susan Lee is great. My other senior producer, Elissa Weldon, and just that whole cast of characters.
My personal producer, Zach Slater (Ph). Like, I had just had really wonderful people who know me. It's like a mind mill. But I was presented with an opportunity that I can't pass up at this network. And we have a new boss who is a morning show impresario and he wants a morning show that will kick off the editorial direction of the network every single day.
And I am honored that he asked me to do it. And for all of those are out there saying, he moved me. And without my -- he asked me and I said, yes, I could have said no. This is my show. I have a contract for this show. I decided that I would take him up on that and take this journey with him. So, this is not someone moving me.
And by the way, this is not someone saying you must move to the right Don Lemon, you must not be -- so give so much of your perspective. None of that has happened. All of that is fodder for Twitter, which is not real. So, stop it. I was not demoted. None of that. This is an opportunity. This is a promotion.
This is -- this is an opportunity for me to create something around me and I get to work with two great ladies who, you know, Poppy Harlow, who I've known for more than a decade. I went to her wedding in Slovenia. I know her children. I know her husband. And Kaitlan Collins, same thing. We've been friends since Kaitlan has been at the network.
So, it's just really great. The only thing is the boss laughed and said, I'm going to have to put some extra money in the budget to have someone come out to your house and wake you up every morning. Because since I've been in this business since the 1990s --
COATES: True.
LEMON: -- seriously, I've only been on the night shift. The only time I've been on the morning shift was as I fill in, when I was filling in on the today show or weekend today or something like that, or even on the morning show here, that is the only time that I've ever -- that hasn't been that much. So, it's going to take some getting used to.
COATES: Well, I'll tell you, I know two things. Nobody puts baby in the corner. And no one dictates anything to Don Lemon.
LEMON: Yes.
COATES: And we love you for it. Look,
LEMON: Thank you.
COATES: I wait up and I stay up every night for Don Lemon. I'm happy to get up in the morning --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I'll tell you --
COATES: -- too.
LEMON: Thank -- Laura, thank you.
COATES: I cannot wait.
LEMON: Listen, I'll tell you. When this, when I started doing this, it was eight and a half years ago and they were doing pilots. So, like, what are we going to do with prime time? And our old boss, Jeff Zucker said, I'm going to try you at this. And he put me in this show and he said, go do it.
And it was the only, he said the only pilot that matters is, the one on the air. So, you go at it and then it became CNN Tonight. And then it became CNN Tonight with Don Lemon and then it became DON LEMON TONIGHT. So, I am very happy. It's very successful show. It has been eight and a half years and it's -- I'm going to do something else and try something else. What's life without risks.
COATES: I'm so excited for you. We're all behind you. And I think it's going to be wonderful. You, Kaitlan, Poppy, a phenomenal trio. I'm excited to see the chemistry that I already know is there.
LEMON: D.L. --
COATES: I am telling you, though, we've all been watching you on an England time. You're good in the morning, kid.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, young lady. The name of the show will be D.L. and K-pop in the morning.
COATES: I -- well, I think we might need one more focus group on that one.
LEMON: Thanks, Laura. I appreciate it.
COATES: Just one.
LEMON: Thank you.
COATES: Take care.
LEMON: You're the best. Thank you. I'll see you tomorrow.
COATES: Take care.
LEMON: This is DON LEMON TONIGHT.
And now we know really big developments, right? Big developments tonight in the Mar-a-Lago investigation. Special master named, and the clock is ticking for him to finish his review of the potentially privileged documents. His name is Raymond Dearie. He's a Reagan nominee. He has until November 30th to finish his work, which I probably don't have to tell you is after the midterms.
[22:04:58]
That deadline splitting the difference, the difference between the DOJ, which wanted him to finish up in October and then team Trump, which preferred 90 days.
That, as a federal judge rejected the Justice Department's bid to restart its criminal investigation into those classified documents turned up in the search of Mar-a-Lago. That was last month. Which makes all but certain, makes it all but certain the DOJ will appeal a fight that could go all the way to the Supreme Court.
So, lots more to come tonight on the investigation swirling around the former president and team Trump.
Plus, give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuge of your teaming shore. Send these, the homeless tempest toss to me. Those words on the Statue of Liberty are pretty iconic. Are pretty ironic. They're iconic.
And they're ironic in the face of what critics are calling a cheap political stunt, dropping desperate men, women, and children, many with no other option in Martha's Vineyard, in New York, and in Washington, including outside the official residence of Vice President Kamala Harris.
Republican governors in what looks like a cynical competition to outdo each other and bus and fly migrants across the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE REP. DYLAN FERNANDES (D-MA): Think about the governor of Florida. So, one of the largest states in the nation spending his time, hatching a secret plot to ship up 50 immigrant -- immigrants here, families, children as young as four, and use them as political pawns just so he could get on Tucker Carlson and beat his chest about his tough -- about how he is tough on immigration. He is a coward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: More to come on all of that. So stay tuned, but I want to get right to the news, a special master tonight. Joining me, Alyssa Farah Griffin, former Trump White House director of strategic communications. Also, Harry Litman, former U.S. attorney, and senior -- CNN senior political analyst, John Avlon.
Good evening. Whew. That was a lot.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Congratulations.
LEMON: Thank you very much. I'm thinking like who did I miss? I missed my writer. I worked with John McGarvey at Fox 5 New York in the 1990s. He's on my team and I didn't mention my -- our new boss's name, Chris Licht. So, Chris, thank you for this opportunity. I really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to all of this. So, thank you guys.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, man, congrats.
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you so much. So, let's talk about this. I'm going to start with Harry. Harry, this is big news tonight. A federal judge picking a special master rejecting the Justice Department's bid to revive its criminal investigation on classified documents. That is a major blow to the Justice Department. Don't you think?
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes, it's atrocious, I think is not too strong a word.
LEMON: Atrocious? Why?
LITMAN: Atrocious? Aberrant. Because the Justice Department said, we just want to look at these hundred classified documents. That was what was immediately before her. The only thing Trump said in response is classified? Who says they're classified? Except the government.
How does something become classified? Because the government, the official authority marks them classified. She adopted his uncertainty and said, well, I'd really like a third person to look at them to say if they're classified. Bizarre and really incoherent.
And then the second -- the second aspect too, he said, well, maybe he has some possessor, right? Because maybe he declassified them, but he didn't say that on the facts. She had undisputed facts to go one way. She went the other with -- and remember, she was having to find a heightened standard, given what he'd asked.
LEMON: So, you think that an appeal is coming and this could go all the way to the Supreme Court.
LITMAN: Yes. And yes, an appeal is coming. They're right now huddling to decide just what exactly to make in that appeal. But I think this task that Judge Dearie has been given to somehow call balls and strikes on executive privilege, which has never been done before and there's no legal standard.
I think that will include it, but I think you'll see them moving for a stay, probably tomorrow in the 11th circuit on the same basis of those hundred classified documents.
LEMON: OK. He, listen, referred to him as Judge Dearie. His name is senior judge, Raymond Dearie. By the way, he was put forward as a possible candidate by Trump Justice Department also endorsed Dearie's appointment. How does this all sound to you, Alyssa?
GRIFFIN: I'm most worried about the idea of whether it's a judge and I've actually only heard good things about Judge Dearie, but that he's going to basically be determining -- determining what's classified.
There's been a hard and fast standard. If something has classified markings on it, it is. And I almost feel like we're giving credence to this myth, frankly, that Trump has come up with that. He declassified things, told no one in the I.C., no one in the defense community and therefore they're declassified.
Well, that doesn't change the risk they pose if they get out in public. So, that to me is a very risky precedent that is being weighted into here. I couldn't speak to the legality, but if something is classified, the same way my party, I was mad when Hillary Clinton allegedly mishandled in -- classified information. We need to be concerned that the former president did that.
LEMON: John, Judge Cannon gave the special master deadline. It's November 30th. That's after the midterms. That's a, you know.
AVLON: Yes.
[22:09:59] LEMON: That has -- that has consequences politically. This is what the DOJ wanted. The DOJ wanted the special master process to end by October, unless a higher court steps in. This is going to move slowly. Right?
AVLON: Yes. I mean, look, I think the question is whether the DOJ does, does try to get this all thrown out because the judge's decision from the beginning is kind of incoherent. Right? I mean, you know, you're asking the special master as respected as this individual is with the background of the FISA court to be reviewing top-secret documents.
LEMON: Incoherent. What do you mean? Why do you think it's incoherent.
AVLON: It's incoherent because you're asking someone to review top secret documents that can't be seen outside of SCIF and the president shouldn't have taken with him.
But putting that all aside, you're asking about the raw politics of this, right?
LEMON: Yes.
AVLON: So, so putting aside it doesn't make any damn sense to begin with. The issue of having it come out after the midterms is you are increasing the chance that it's going to run into a conflict with the former president declaring a new run. And that will add all sorts of new political pressures. And this attempt to play the ref, which is one of the things Donald Trump's does by playing the delay game.
So, this is setting up that conflict. And I do think for matters of coherence and national security and law, you know, this should be contested.
LEMON: You know, the legal system, it moves slow. Slowly. This is not going to happen quickly.
LITMAN: And by the way, November 30th is really a phantom date because when he makes any ruling that either party, especially Trump disagrees with, they bring it to Cannon, maybe the 11th circuit. And there are, I can't emphasize enough, no legal standards here because no special master has ever been appointed for executive privilege.
LEMON: But is that possible for it to finish before November 30th?
LITMAN: Not this, not the one she's wrote - not the one she's prescribed.
LEMON: Go ahead, Alyssa.
GRIFFIN: But and my fear in this is that it's, you know, of course we're going to go, I think we're going to go into the era where Trump is a candidate. I expect that he's probably going to declare in the next month or so, partially, precisely to fend off this investigation. I am just hoping that DOJ has been buttoned up throughout this investigation and that this was something that was foreseeable. I've warned about this before, but if there is not a there, there, which it seems there is, it seems very clear. I mean, highly classified documents, mishandled, not in a SCIF. But I hope the DOJ is ready for what the Trump team is going to push back with.
LEMON: You think is what?
GRIFFIN: No, I just -- I'm not making any predictions, but I worry because this was the unprecedented step of raiding a former president's home, in residence and getting into what I think put a lot of people on edge and was roundly condemned by Republicans as seen as unprecedented. I hope that they have that they're there. I think that they do.
AVLON: Yes. I mean.
GRIFFIN: But this is a major loss for the DOJ.
AVLON: This a major loss for the DOJ based on a pretty incoherent initial ruling by this Trump appointed judge who was appointed after -- after the election. But I mean, you know, I remember when the meeting --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I'm just laughing because you keep saying incoherent.
AVLON: Yes. I'm going to keep on saying that.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: That's why we're honest.
LEMON: You keep on saying that. Ask the counselor if I'm on solid ground here.
LITMAN: Incoherent.
AVLON: Yes. With the enunciation.
LITMAN: Exactly.
AVLON: But you know, in all -- in all seriousness. This is, you know, I remember a lot of Republican initial defenders reflexively for the ex-president saying, well, I mean, it's not like he's got nuclear secrets in there. Well, guess what. Apparently.
LEMON: He has nuclear. Apparently, he had nuclear secrets.
AVLON: Yes.
LEMON: The judge also wasn't convinced, Harry, that pushing the criminal investigation classified document seizes at Mar-a-Lago that it put a national security at risk. LITMAN: She wasn't convinced. Of course, she had undisputed evidence
that said it was and nothing on the other side. Judges aren't supposed to capriciously flip coins. They're supposed to weigh evidence. And there was literally zero on Trump's side of things. And a really good affidavit explaining just why there was a problem.
LEMON: You think an appeals court will see it as she does.
LITMAN: My best guess is no. Even conservative appeals court, I think it's too fundamental and too incoherent.
AVLON: There you go.
LEMON: He's backing you up there, John.
AVLON: Come on, Harry.
LEMON: But listen.
LITMAN: Yes.
LEMON: To Alyssa's point.
LITMAN: Yes.
LEMON: If -- do you think that there is the evidence have to be there? She said, I hope that they're prepared for what Trump's team is going to come at them with.
LITMAN: Yes.
LEMON: In order to get an affidavit, especially for the -- a former president's home, do you think that it has to be there initially and you think that the evidence is there.
LITMAN: Yes. And yes. I mean basically when an appeals court looks at things they look at as it was filed. I totally take your point but I'm pretty confident having been there. They've anticipated. And we've seen this along the line everything they've sort of come out with.
For example, the argument that he was going to make there was declassified, they chose three statutes for the search warrant that don't require classification. I think they thought this through strategically very carefully.
LEMON: Anything else in this incoherent conversation, you guys want to share?
LITMAN: Yes, very coherent conversation.
AVLON: This is a tightly --
(CROSSTALK)
LITMAN: Loosen. AVLON: But remember that this is only one of the inquiries that's
going on right now. It takes place against the backdrop of all these subpoenas being sent out to dozen of Trump folks, focusing around the attempt to overturn the election, raise money around it.
[22:14:58]
That's a, that's a totally separate and potentially far larger issue. This is -- so don't -- don't get confused. These two things are not the same thing. That other process is moving forward.
LEMON: We'll see what a difference all of it will make. If it will make --
AVLON: You know --
LEMON: -- any election. It may not.
AVLON: If you care about defending democracy.
LEMON: I know, but it may not make a difference.
LITMAN: See you early one morning.
LEMON: Yes.
LITMAN: Check it out.
LEMON: Cliff. We're like right there. Yes. Thank you all.
GRIFFIN: Thank you.
LITMAN: Thank you.
LEMON: Republican governors of Texas and Florida sending more migrants to the Northeast. Two planes landing in Martha's Vineyard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: What they're doing is simply wrong. It's un-American, it's reckless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: New tonight. President Biden criticizing state Republicans for sending migrants north to protest administration's immigration policies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Instead of working with us on solutions, Republicans are playing politics with human beings, using them as props. What they're doing is simply wrong. It's un-American, it's reckless. And we have a process in place to manage migrants of the border. We're working to make sure it's safe and orderly inhumane. Republican officials should not interfere with that process by waging
a political -- these political stunts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:19:59]
LEMON: The president's criticism coming just a day after Florida's Republican Governor Ron DeSantis sent two planes carrying migrants to Martha's Vineyard.
CNN's Miguel Marquez has more now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ubaldo Arcaya was in San Antonio, Texas yesterday along with 50 other Venezuelan migrants. Today, he's in Martha's Vineyard. When you got off the plane, I ask him, what did you think of this place? Beautiful, gorgeous, he says. That people are very friendly. He says in Texas, he was promised help if he got on the plane. No idea where he was going.
"There were three options," he says, "Washington, Utah, here in Massachusetts, whatever was available. The plane left and brought us here."
It's a tactic we've seen in Texas, Arizona, and now Florida. Republican governors shipping migrants to so-called sanctuary cities and states with little to no notice.
FERNANDES: There's no low that these people will go. They -- they'll keep going lower and lower. And they're willing to use humans, children, women, families as political pawns for their own game. It is depraved. It is evil. It is wrong, but what makes America great is what we see here today, which is an island community and a state in Massachusetts is coming together to support the people here.
MARQUEZ: Arcaya, a 27-year-old mechanic from Venezuela says he's been welcomed with food and new clothes here on the island. He tells us he made a difficult month and a half long journey for liberty, democracy, and the promise of America.
"When you step on American soil, you feel at ease that you're here and well protected. You lose the stress of the journey we had to go through in seven countries, very stressful across all of Central America."
This parish house bustling with activity, volunteers and organizers working since yesterday to provide food, shelter, and immigration services.
LARKIN STALLINGS, MARTHA'S VINEYARD COMMUNITY SERVICES: We've got the bodies to do this. The biggest problem was the short notice, right?
MARQUEZ: Right.
STALLINGS: And that was obviously intentional.
MARQUEZ: Just 20 minutes notice as the airport manager, a deliberate move by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis who is taking credit for the surprise trip.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Our message to them is we are not a sanctuary state and it's better to be able to go to a sanctuary jurisdiction. And yes, we will help facilitate that transport for you to be able to go to greener pastures.
MARQUEZ: With that message, not sitting well with officials here in Martha's Vineyard.
FERNANDES: We're going to come together and support whoever shows up here, and we're going to make sure that people have the food, water, and shelter that they need.
You know, Ron DeSantis and Republicans might want to play political games with people's lives. I believe that's incredibly inhumane to be using women and children and families as a political pawn.
MARQUEZ: Miguel Marquez, CNN, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, Miguel, thank you very much for that.
I want to bring in now CNN political commentators, Maria Cardona and Scott Jennings.
Good evening. I know this is going to be interesting. Good to see both of you.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, Don.
LEMON: Scott, is this really the best way to handle this country's immigration crisis trolling with human beings?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, I guess I would ask is, what Joe Biden's administration doing the best way to handle the country's immigration crisis. We have record numbers of people coming across the border, the governors of Arizona and Texas and the mayors of the town --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I understand that, but my question was whether this was the right way to deal with it --
JENNINGS: -- to people who are dealing this every day are screaming for help.
LEMON: -- by using human beings as pawns. We can discuss whether the policy issues that Joe Biden should be dealing with. But my question was about what these Republican state lawmakers are doing by shipping people and playing with human lives. That was the -- crux of my question.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: The right way to deal with it is for the federal government to get its act together and they cannot get Joe Biden's attention.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You're still not answering my question, though, Scott. Come on, Scott.
JENNINGS: And they cannot get this administration to (Inaudible).
LEMON: Answer my question, please.
JENNINGS: Yes. You want an answer?
LEMON: Scott, just answer my question.
JENNINGS: Yes. Then the answer is yes. You don't let me talk. The answer is yes.
LEMON: Well, that -- all you got to do is say yes, you didn't have to go around the bend to --
JENNINGS: They have to get --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: -- if you think it's yes --
JENNINGS: I'm not.
LEMON: -- then say yes.
JENNINGS: I'm telling you what I think os the issue.
LEMON: You think it's the right thing to do for them to play with lives. You said, yes. OK. That's the answer.
So, Maria, DeSantis said today, every community in America should be sharing the burdens of immigration. Do some communities bear a dis -- appropriate or disproportionate, excuse me, burden?
CARDONA: Look here is short Ron DeSantis, and frankly, Greg Abbott and Doug Ducey. We hate immigrants. Get the F out and we will help you get the F out. What they're doing is disgusting.
And Don, to your point, if this was really about sharing the burden, they would have called Martha's Vineyard. They would have called D.C. They would've called New York. They would've called Chicago. And you know what would've happened, Don? These cities, these mayors, their infrastructure would've said, yes, let's work together. We will welcome these immigrants with open arms the way that they are still doing now, but they had zero notice. And what to me is so telling about how much hatred these governors have for these immigrants -- (CROSSTALK)
[22:25:02]
LEMON: I understand that, Maria. But do you --
CARDONA: -- that they are saying they have for them --
LEMON: Do you think some communities do --
CARDONA: -- is that they call -- they called Fox News before they called the infrastructure folks.
LEMON: -- a disproportionate burden is a question.
CARDONA: The border communities, of course they do, because that is sort of the first stop where these immigrants go as they cross the border, as they try to get somewhere to save their lives, to live a better life.
The United States, you said it at the very beginning, right, the Statue of Liberty is welcoming of immigrants who want to come here to live a better life. Like President Biden said, and I was there at this event tonight. There is a process in place in these border towns, in these border states that do have a disproportionate burden because of where they are. But you know what, there is always a procedure.
These procedures are in place to be able to get these immigrants where they need to go, where they want to go. And by the way --
LEMON: OK.
CARDONA: Let's remember, these immigrants are not illegal immigrants. They are here to claim asylum. Let's read the Constitution.
LEMON: OK.
CARDONA: Let's read our laws.
LEMON: Scott.
CARDONA: That is absolutely lost.
LEMON: Do you want to respond to what she said?
JENNINGS: Yes, look, they don't hate immigrants. They, I mean, the Arizona and Texas have more immigrants coming across than we've ever had in the history of the United States. And most of them are staying around the border. The question here is, is the federal government going to do its job and help these states deal with this crisis.
By the way, no one seemed to mind a year ago when Joe Biden's administration in the middle of the night was flying migrant teens and children into New York City and not telling anybody and resettling folks there. I don't know what the difference is today. And so, look, I think people come here for all kinds of reasons,
mostly to have a better life and to find better opportunity. They don't come here to stop 10 foot inside of the state of Texas or the state of Arizona.
So, it strikes me that if they go to someplace beautiful like Martha's Vineyard or someplace with unlimited opportunity, like New York City, I don't know why Democrats are up in arms about it. But the bottom line is we have to tell the truth about what's happening there.
Biden and Harris are not telling the American people the truth about this border, which is out of control.
LEMON: But Scott --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: And there's a kind -- this free pass is wrong.
CARDONA: No, it's wrong.
LEMON: Isn't that a different though -- isn't that different though -- hold on, Maria. Scott.
CARDONA: Yes.
LEMON: Let's just be honest. Isn't that different than people voluntarily picking a place to go than having someone ship them through many different states or a number of different states for political purposes, using them as pawns in a political process. That's a whole -- listen, yes. People can go where they want to go. These people aren't going where they want to go. They're being shipped off by people. That's -- I mean, don't -- that's -- your response is a little --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: It's voluntary. They're asking them if they want to go.
CARDONA: No.
LEMON: But aren't they telling them you're going to get jobs here. You are going to do --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Yes. I mean, are you assuming that everybody wants to stop 10 foot inside the border? I don't think that's true.
CARDONA: No. But here's actually --
JENNINGS: I mean, (Inaudible) all over the United States.
CARDONA: Scott, here's actually, -- Scott, here's actually --
(CROSSTALK) LEMON: Go ahead, Maria.
CARDONA: Here's actually what is happening, and this is what is so disgusting about this. They are telling these immigrants, these migrants that if they get on this bus, they will take them to their families. They are telling them that if they don't get on this bus, their asylum claim might not be heard.
They are being deceitful. They are lying. Who does that? Human traffickers do that. Abductors do that. Responsible governors, responsible leaders do not do that. Responsible leaders will pick up the phone and coordinate with these states, coordinate with the federal government, put in the procedures that the administration has in place to make sure that these immigrants, that these migrants are processed --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Scott, she --
CARDONA: -- in a humane way.
LEMON: She has a point with that. She has a point. They should be coordinating. Don't you think they should be coordinating with the people who are in charge of those communities?
JENNINGS: I mean, who's coordinating with them? I mean, you're talking about 50 people in Martha's Vineyard and we're having a national meltdown about it? Do you know how many thousands of people they deal with on a daily basis? We're talking about 50 folks. It's nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: So why do it then?
JENNINGS: This is -- you want to call it a stunt. Fine. I would agree --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: So why do it? It's a stunt.
LEMON: Scott, my point was they didn't tell the people in Martha's Vineyard that they were coming.
JENNINGS: But it is a stunt.
LEMON: It's -- the point, my question is about coordinating.
JENNINGS: It is stunt with a purpose and the purpose is send help, get your act together, federal government, the border is not secure, Vice President Harris, like she said on television this weekend, we have a major national problem and you're not dealing with it. So, you want to call it a stunt. Fine. But it's a stunt with a real purpose. This story has generated more talk today in the United States than
we've covered the border in this country for the last six months. Good for them.
CARDONA: You know what else though? You talk about how this issue needs to be resolved. Let's look back at history and look at what party was responsible for this issue not being resolved in the first place.
It has been Democrats that have always tried to work for comprehensive immigration reform. It has been conservative Republicans who have always shut the door and slap Democrats in the face when they wanted to come to a solution.
So, if you want solutions, go talk to your Republican senators and members of the House of Representatives and your Republican governors to get their freaking act together.
[22:30:03]
JENNINGS: Maria, the border is open. Your party is in charge.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: It is not open.
JENNINGS: They wanted it open. It's why there's a crisis.
CARDONA: It is not open, Scott.
JENNINGS: It is open. How are people coming across then?
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: There has been -- there is more infrastructure.
JENNINGS: How are people coming across?
CARDONA: There is more infra -- I will tell you.
JENNINGS: Tell the truth.
LEMON: Hang on. One at a time, please.
CARDONA: Because -- I am. I will tell you. These people are coming across. They are not sneaking, Scott. They are walking across.
JENNINGS: I know because the border is open. They're walking across.
CARDONA: Coming across and present --
JENNINGS: Of course, they're not.
CARDONA: -- and presenting themselves legally as the law says they can to border patrol agents saying --
LEMON: Scott --
CARDONA: -- I would like to seek asylum. That is the greatness of this country. And Republicans want to take it away.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Again, Scott, she does have a point there in order for them to be shipped to other places. Don't the people at the border patrol have to be able to get them in order to ship them off somewhere? If they were just running into the country and not going through the process, there would be no buses. They would not be getting on buses. They would just be going freely to wherever they want to go.
JENNINGS: Well, some people definitely are going freely to wherever they want to go. These folks didn't find themselves in that situation, but you can't tell me that folks aren't coming across every day and just walking into the United States with absolutely -- I mean, the border patrol is overwhelmed. Talk to a border patrol agent. They'll tell you it's overwhelming.
And we've got the Biden administration hiring 87,000 IRS workers and no border patrol agents. It's a -- it's a disgrace.
LEMON: Maria, I'll give you the last word.
JENNINGS: It's a disgrace.
CARDONA: We are happy to work with Republicans. This does need a federal solution, Scott. But guess what. History says, Republicans have no interest in solving this issue. DeSantis, Abbott, and Ducey are proof of that. They have no interest and they are ignorant about what this issue actually means to this country. It is a disservice to their voters.
LEMON: OK. I got to go.
CARDONA: It is a disservice to this country.
LEMON: Thank you, both. I appreciate it.
CARDONA: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: He was part of Trump's inner circle in January 6th. So what could former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows reveal to the committee. That's next?
[22:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: First on CNN, former Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows has complied with the DOJ subpoena. Right now, Meadows is the highest- ranking former Trump official known to have responded to a subpoena in the federal investigation.
So, joining me now to discuss, Chris Whipple. He is the author of "The Gatekeepers" and the upcoming book, "The Fight of His Life: Inside Joe Biden's White House."
Thank you for joining us, Chris. Good evening.
CHRIS WHIPPLE, AUTHOR, THE GATEKEEPERS: Good to be with you.
LEMON: So, Mark Meadows was in the inner circle on January 6th. He sort of, he knew what was going on. How valuable is the information for that he can give to the committee and the DOJ?
WHIPPLE: Well, it, it depends on how much he's cooperating. All we know is that he has complied with a subpoena, which could mean as little as sharing some texts and e-mails. But if he is telling DOJ everything, he knows he's potentially the most dangerous witness there could possibly be against Donald Trump.
He was -- he knows almost everything Trump knows. He was complicit in the campaign to overturn the election, making 18 phone calls to Brad Raffensperger before they finally orchestrated that mafia-style shakedown for 11,780 votes. He was there the morning of January 6th, holding Trump's coat in effect when he went out to incite the mob to attack the capitol.
So, I mean he's -- and then of course he sat on his couch scrolling through his cell phone while Cassidy Hutchinson begged him to intervene with Trump and call off the mob. So, I mean, he's potentially the most dangerous witness there could be. And for that reason, I think Trump is probably not sleeping all that well.
LEMON: Well, you mentioned Cassidy Hutchinson, because he became -- Mark Meadows became a key point of interest during that bombshell testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson. This is what some of what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS: I remember Pat saying something to the effect of, Mark, we need to do something more. They're literally calling for the vice president to be effing hung. And Mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, Pat, he thinks Mike deserves that he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. To which Pat said something, this is effing crazy. We need to be doing something more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, whether it's the former president's state of mind or his intentions on January 6th, Meadows is the only one really who can sort of, fill out to give the big picture here, to fill in the book.
WHIPPLE: Yes. Meadows. Meadows was there at his side for all of this. And I think, you know, in Trump's case, this may be a case of be careful what you wish for, because, or it could be. Because Mark Meadows is the chief of staff Donald Trump desperately wanted and finally got, and he was a sycophant who would do anything for Trump. But the downside of hiring sycophants is that at the end of the day, you never really know if they're truly in your corner. Now, people who are old enough to remember Watergate or younger viewers who may have read about it, may recall a guy named Gordon Liddy, G. Gordon Liddy who was a cartoon character, Watergate burglar, but he was a hardcore Nixon loyalist who showed how tough he was by holding his hand over a -- over a candle, a flaming candle.
Well, Mark Meadows is no Gordon Liddy. This is not necessarily a guy who will go to the gates of hell for Donald Trump. And one of the fascinating things about him. And I write about this in my upcoming book, on Joe Biden's White House, is that Meadows was really a yes, man, but he was a yes, man not just to Donald Trump but to almost everybody. He was really, there was a kind of spinelessness about him that's really remarkable.
[22:40:03]
So, I think Donald Trump just has to be hoping that he's not trying to please the Department of Justice.
LEMON: I want to ask you about this new detail from the upcoming book. It's called "The Dividers" by Peter Baker and Susan Glasser where they describe another former chief of staff. And that's John Kelly being furious at Trump for refusing to lower the flag after John McCain's death.
And reportedly saying quote here, "if you don't support John McCain's funeral, when you die, the public will come to your grave and piss on it." OK. What's your reaction?
WHIPPLE: It's certainly -- it's certainly consistent with everything we know about Donald Trump and John Kelly. You know, Kelly came in determined to impose his will and make the trains run on time. And tell Donald Trump hard truths. I like everyone else. He utterly failed to do it.
And, I think that, you know, and certainly, Jared Kushner and Ivanka were real enemies and helped to drive him out. The truth was that the longer Trump's presidency went on the less assertive his chief of staff became because Mick Mulvaney, again, became a rubber stamp. And then ultimately, you know, he got the chief of staff, the sycophant he always wanted in Mark Meadows.
LEMON: Thank you, sir. It's good to see you, Chris.
WHIPPLE: Good to be here.
LEMON: I appreciate it. Mourners in the U.K. lining up for hours to see the queen one last time and we're learning President Biden will meet with British Prime Minister Liz Truss when he is in London for the funeral. The U.K. ambassador to the U.S. is here to talk about, next.
[22:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Queen Elizabeth lying in state at Westminster Hall as members
of the public pay their respects. They have a few more days to do so before the state funeral on Monday. While he is in London for that President Joe Biden is set to meet with the new British Prime Minister Liz Truss.
That as King Charles is expected to host an event for foreign dignitaries from around the world on Sunday night.
So, joining me now, the ambassador, the British ambassador to the U.S., Karen Pierce. Ambassador, thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.
KAREN PIERCE, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Thanks very much for having me.
LEMON: Thank you. And I must say that I'm sorry for the law -- your loss. The U.K. is dealing with high inflation, out of control gas prices. There's the war in Ukraine, a lot to cover between President Biden and prime -- the Prime Minister Truss. What do you think is first on their agenda.
PIERCE: I think they're going to spend time talking about pushing back on authoritarianism. It's authoritarianism that is behind Russia invasion of Ukraine. It's authoritarianism that's behind the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs and of Taiwan.
And the president and prime minister both share a belief in the power of freedom, the power of liberty, what we can do to embed open societies and bring better benefits to citizens. So, I think that'll be a very important thing. And it's one piece of philosophy, if you like, that they both have in common.
I think energy is bound to be top of the list also. That's a very real issue as you were saying. We have brought in measures to help households. The president has recently passed the Inflation Reduction Act. I think there's a lot to talk about there and what more we can do together.
Securing energy supply is going to be a part of that conversation. And obviously they're going to talk about Ukraine, what more we can do together to sustain Ukraine, as she continues this pushback with some remarkable results recently against Russia.
LEMON: Ambassador the U.K. is going through so much upheaval, a new prime minister, the death of the queen. Now there's a new king. You think all of that is going to make it even harder to deal with all of these challenges the U.K. is facing?
PIERCE: No. Actually in, in some funny way I think it it's actually easier. You know, these are unprecedented times, as you were saying, because so many challenges, so many headwinds are coming together and the prime minister has spoken about that. And these headwinds have felt throughout the Trans-Atlantic space. So, I think they'll have a lot to talk about, there's a lot to do to get on with what we're going to do to confront these challenges. It's unusual to have a new king, and a new prime minister in one week.
But I think as far as Britain is concerned, they are very much going to rely on each other's counsel and advice. And I do think it's a new era beginning in historical terms. But I think today's crises, particularly the cost of living, are real. And that's what the prime minister will want to discuss with the president.
LEMON: Do you think though, the new prime minister and the king having both started, I guess, around the same time, right? Stepping into their roles at the same time that it offers some sort of bonding, between the two, which actually may help their relationship and therefore the country.
PIERCE: I would like to think so, certainly. I think it was very good and very typical that the queen's last official duty was to see in the new prime minister that provides continuity, it provides stability. The new king has spoken of unity, and loyalty and duty.
[22:50:03]
The prime minister also feels public service very keenly, and I think it will be the beginning of a new era. I mean, I think to be honest, the 21st century is bringing that of its own accord. There are new challenges in this century that we did not have to deal with in the 20th century like migration, like climate change.
So, I think all these issues and the fact that both the king and the prime minister knew will actually give them some commonality and enable them to form a good bond.
LEMON: Ambassador, I do have to say I think that's the best photo placement too, over your left shoulder. I do see your picture there of the late queen, her majesty.
PIERCE: Well, that's very kind.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you.
PIERCE: Perhaps I could --
LEMON: Go on.
PIERCE: Perhaps I could say we got 10 out of 10 on room rater, if we're allowed to say that on air.
LEMON: You just said it. Thank you, Ambassador. You be well. I appreciate it.
PIERCE: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you.
So he has won 20 Grand Slams over his 24 year tennis career. Now the man known as the Federer express is pulling into the station for the last time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Tennis great Roger Federer, a 20-time Grand Slam winner announcing today that he is retiring. His career spanning nearly a quarter century. Federer has won the Australian Open six times. The French Open once. The U.S. Open five times. Wimbledon a record eight times, but in the last few years, he has been beset by a series of injuries. Federer making his announcement in a post on social media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER FEDERER, PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER: I am 41 years old. I've played more than 1,500 matches over 24 years. Tennis has treated me more generously than I ever would've dreamt. And now I must recognize when it is time to end my competitive career.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Federer's retirement marking another big change for tennis coming just a month after Serena Williams declaring her intention to evolve away from the court.
It has been weeks of back-and-forth legal drama between Trump's team Trump and the DOJ. Now a judge has appointed a special master in the Mar-a-Lago documents case. Who is he? Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
