Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Military Coup Attempted in Thailand; Bush Addresses U.N.; GOP Split Over Interrogation Bill; Family in Baby Abduction Says Father Passed Lie Detector Test; Still No Answers in Tainted Spinach Probe

Aired September 19, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
Showdown in Thailand. Tanks roll in, soldiers on the ground. Will the government be overthrown? A nation in the balance as world leaders meet at the U.N.

In New York, President Bush tries to build bridges. Is his audience on board?

And delay and debris for the Shuttle Atlantis. When will the shuttle come back to terra firma? We're live from NASA.

We're working on all of this for you, straight from the CNN NEWSROOM.

For the prime minister of Thailand, a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Just a short while ago, he declared a severe state of emergency from U.N. headquarters in New York. That as tanks rumble through Bangkok in a military coup attempt.

CNN's Dan Rivers joins me now from the Thai capital with all the latest -- Dan.

DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm standing outside the prime minister's official office. You can probably see it, just behind me, lit up. There are tanks parked outside it. There are two tanks just down the road.

We can maybe get my camera man to pan off and try and show you. It's difficult to make it out in the dark, but just behind the street sign there, you might be able to make out the shape of a tank. It's covered with soldiers that we understand are from the royal guard.

And having driven through the center of Bangkok, there are soldiers at major intersections, tanks at major intersections, and a coup d'etat has been announced here in Thailand.

It's being claimed by something called the Party of Democratic Reform, hitherto unknown before this evening. They've pledged loyally to the king here. They say they have all of the armed forces on their side, and they have control of Bangkok.

PHILLIPS: Dan, how did this all begin? Was it during the elections and allegations of corruption? RIVERS: There was an election called back in April, a snap election by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra amid allegations of corruption and nepotism. Afterwards, the election was declared null and void. He was accused of having tried to rig the election. The king intervened then, and a new election was scheduled for next month.

But clearly, the military now has taken matters into their own hands. They're on the streets. The tanks are on the streets. This isn't the first time this has happened in Thailand. But this evening, a coup d'etat has been announced, and Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is at the U.N. General Assembly in New York.

PHILLIPS: Dan Rivers from the Thai capital. We'll continue to follow the breaking news out of that part of the country.

Meanwhile, Middle East stability, is it just a mirage? President Bush just told the U.N. General Assembly it is, at least for now. Let's get straight to Suzanne Malveaux. She's in New York.

Suzanne, you've been monitoring the entire speech.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, what President Bush is trying to do is restore credibility within this international body. There are quite a few leaders who doubt his judgments.

Just four years ago, President Bush went before them, the General Assembly, simply saying that, look, the United States will make sure to enforce the U.N. Security Council resolutions against Saddam Hussein, literally invade Iraq, with or without your consent or your approval, and questioned the relevance of this organization.

Well, now the president is try to wrap himself, cloak himself in this rhetoric of peace, talking about a freedom agenda, the need for the international community to get involved and support the moderates, the moderate voices in the Muslim world, in the Middle East, specifically talking about cases in Iraq, the Palestinian Authority and Lebanon, reaching out to all of those different communities.

President Bush just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, I'd like to speak directly to the people across the broader Middle East.

My country desires peace. Extremists if your midst spread propaganda, claiming that the west is engaged in a war against Islam. This propaganda is false, and its purpose is to confuse you and justify acts of terror.

We respect Islam. But we will protect our people from those who pervert Islam to sow death and destruction. Our goal is to help you build a more tolerant and hopeful society that honors people of all faiths and promotes the peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: Kyra, President Bush singled out Iran in particular, saying it was a dangerous regime because of the ability or even -- the ambition, rather, to try to get a nuclear weapons program developed.

A lot of -- a lot of attention, of course, paid to whether or not President Bush and the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would run into each other during this summit. Now according to everybody who's been on the ground and actually inside of that room, they say that they did not see President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad actually there attending the speech. Rather, it was the foreign minister of Iran that attends the speech.

So it looks like these leaders, unless they actually bump into each other in the hallway, are probably not going to see each other. And they're certainly not seeing each other eye to eye.

But a lot of attention for much -- what has been made out of this Kabuki dance, really what is happening behind the scenes, negotiations between European counterparts, the foreign ministers. It's going to be really important the next couple of weeks to see whether or not Iran does, in fact, come back to the negotiating table -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And Suzanne, that's what we have all been watching and waiting for, what was going to happen between these two leaders and what was going to be decided with regard to the threat of Iran and U.S. reaction.

Meanwhile, we have this attempted coup in Thailand. Has that added to the mix? Is the focus changing there today?

MALVEAUX: Well, certainly, a lot of people are paying attention to that. We know that Thailand's prime minister is going to be returning early back to his country.

But as you know, the United States and Thailand are close allies. This is a country that essentially contributed troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. President Bush and the prime minister of Thailand met last year on two occasions: in November, the APEC summit. That is when the two met in Korea, they were talking about trade relations. And then at the White House in September.

Very interesting, both of the countries, as you know, the United States contributing to the people in Thailand when it came to that devastating tsunami and then also the Thai people, as well, contributing to victims and survivors of Hurricane Katrina. So the president very much aware of what is happening there, a very close eye on the developments, so we'll see how that plays out.

PHILLIPS: All right. Suzanne Malveaux, thanks so much.

We talked about the turmoil in Thailand and President Bush's message to a divided United Nations. Both are topping the agenda right now at U.N. headquarters. We've heard from the president just a short time ago. Suzanne brought us up to date from that front.

Let's get straight to our senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth.

And Richard, we were talking this morning, just wondering what the feeling is like there, with regard to security. Not only because of all the players that are there right now and the tension but what is happening today specifically in Thailand, as well.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I haven't been around the building because I've been pinned here, but there really isn't any change here that we know of, because the prime minister of Thailand was not in the building.

Now we're told just seconds ago by U.S. Ambassador John Bolton, he said that Condoleezza Rice, the U.S. secretary of state, has left the U.N. and gone back to the Waldorf to get more information on what is happening with the situation in Thailand and Bangkok.

Bolton said the U.S. expects the constitutional process to be followed. Elections had been planned for mid-October. The prime minister of Thailand yesterday spoke to New York's Council on Foreign Relations about the electoral process and his fate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA, PRIME MINISTER OF THAILAND: I'm definitely -- the election. But I will keep -- I will be on the party list. I will be the chairman of the party, but I'm not sure whether I should accept the prime ministership or not. I'm still thinking and confusing. I will have to definitely announce before -- probably on the latest day, the election registration day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: This -- this is the latest coup in Thailand's history. Hasn't been a coup in 15 years. The U.N. announced that the prime minister was going to speak now tonight here in New York, instead of tomorrow, as planned.

Ambassador Bolton of the U.S. again mentioned something we've heard, that perhaps the leader of Thailand is already on his way back to the country. We don't have any independent confirmation of that. The U.N. said the Thailand leader is going to speak in the spot originally reserved for the leader of Montenegro, who will now speak on Wednesday -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Richard Roth, we'll stay in touch, thanks.

Well, post-9/11 poll bounce for President Bush. Forty-four percent of respondents in a "USA Today"/Gallup poll say they approve of Mr. Bush's performance in office. Fifty-one percent disapprove.

The approval rating is up five percentage points from earlier this month, and for the first time in nine months, a clear majority did not say the war in Iraq was a mistake. Respondents now are evenly split on that issue, at 49 percent.

Asked whether the president does or does not have a clear plan for handling Iraq, 36 percent said he does, 61 percent said he doesn't.

Other polls, lower numbers. A FOX News poll taken days before the "USA Today"/Gallup survey shows that Bush's approval rating at 45 percent. A recent AP/IPSOS poll puts it at 39 percent, and that averages out to 41 percent, still a bit higher than in earlier polls.

After talking to the U.N. today, President Bush talks to CNN tomorrow night. The president goes one on one with our Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM". That's at 7 Eastern, only here on CNN.

The fight between President Bush and maverick Senate Republicans over his controversial anti-terrorism plan may be nearing an end. That is if you like the 50/50 odds for a compromise being bandied about by one Republican source.

CNN's Andrea Koppel is live on the Hill with the latest -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENTS: Hi there, Kyra.

Well, what a difference a few days makes. In the hours since the White House sent over some new ideas, a new proposal on its detainee legislation, those military tribunals, the tone and tenor up here in the Senate has changed markedly. It is a slightly more optimistic atmosphere up here.

In particular, you've got Senator John Warner, who's one of three Republicans, rebel Republicans, some are calling them, who are blocking President Bush's bill on detainees.

Senator Warner spoke with our Dana Bash just a short time ago and said that they were having what he called "a constructive exchange" with the White House and said that he was going to be getting together with his colleagues, John McCain and Lindsey Graham. In fact, they may have already taken -- gotten together since Dana spoke with them.

In another interview with Dana Bash, Senator John Cornyn, who is a Republican who's been acting sort of as a middle man between the three Republicans up here on the Hill and the White House, told Dana that the latest White House offer is focused on what's known as Common Article III of the Geneva Conventions, which forbids, among other things, outrages against personal dignity.

Now Dana asked the senator why, after President Bush clearly dug in his heels on Friday, the White House was making an offer now to compromise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: Well, I think that people began to realize that, if this interrogation program shut down, this would be bad for the United States.

And I think this is one of those issues that certainly rises above party. It's bigger than the next election, because I think people begin to realize that if we can't reach resolution, we can't give clear rules, what's permitted, what's not permitted, to our intelligence officials. Then we won't be able to get the information that has prevented terrorist attacks in the past and which we can anticipate will do so again in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: But on a day when so many others seem to be trying to lower the rhetoric, Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, came out and talked to reporters. He supports the president's legislation on setting up these military tribunals.

And Kyra, he read out, really, a laundry list of what he said were the problems in the McCain-Warner-Graham legislation, which seems to be throwing a bit of a cold water on the prospects of a deal anytime soon.

But they only have 10 days to try to work this out before they leave at the end of the -- at the end of this month, Kyra. Senator Frist also said that they don't have the 60 votes they'd need to get it through in the Senate. So clearly, negotiations are continuing.

PHILLIPS: Andrea Koppel, thanks.

Well, Space Shuttle Atlantis will spend another day in orbit, partly because of a UFO. That's unidentified floating object, by the way. Some sort of debris first spotted by a video camera in the shuttle's cargo bay. Engineers think it probably came from the shuttle, but NASA wants just an extra day to study it.

Iffy weather in Florida is also a factor in the postponed landing, now scheduled for Thursday at the soonest.

Well, the search for a Missouri baby. Is this the face of the kidnapper? Police asking the public for help. We'll take you there live.

Plus, our top story, a severe state of emergency declared in Thailand. Tanks rumble through Bangkok in the military coup attempt. The latest on this breaking story. We're live from Bangkok.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, plenty of leads but no major breaks in the alleged abduction of a baby girl in Missouri.

CNN's Jonathan Freed is in Union, Missouri, with the latest on the search for 11-year-old (sic) Abby Woods.

Jonathan, what's the latest?

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you, Kyra, that just a short while ago, we spoke to a family spokesperson who told us that the father of the child, James Woods, underwent a polygraph test on Sunday. And when that test was over, asked authorities if he passed the test and was told that he did. We have been trying, since we learned this news from the family spokesperson, to confirm it with police. But police have been hesitant to talk about anything even remotely like this, citing that this is an ongoing investigation, the usual kind of thing that you hear from them.

So again coming from a family spokesperson, the father of the child, James Woods, according to -- according to the spokesperson, underwent a polygraph test on Sunday, asked if he passed it, was told that he did -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Are there still -- are police ruling out that the parents or the mother could be involved in this in any way?

FREED: Well, the initial -- the initial language that was coming from investigators earlier on, after this happened, was suggesting that they didn't have any issues with what they were hearing from the family.

But when we tried to clarify that yesterday, the language changed somewhat, and it is not clear whether or not they withdrew from that earlier, more confident position, or whether they're just simply reverting to what is more traditional language, investigator language, in a case like this. Basically saying, "Look, this is a very fluid situation. We have 300 leads right now. If something comes in where somebody says something that needs to be bounced off of and checked against the family, we have to check it out."

So they find themselves, I think, investigators, in this box right now, of knowing more than they're able to tell us and having to say that everything is still on the table.

But I can tell you, Kyra, that we, in talking to this family spokesperson, we know that all of this careful language, and what the police can and can't say, causing us to report this kind of thing, is causing the family considerable stress. They are adamant that they are the victims here, and they would like for the police to be able to come out and say, no, they're not suspects.

PHILLIPS: Bottom line, more to the story. Jonathan, thanks.

Five days into a nationwide spinach scare, and investigators still haven't found the source of that contamination.

CNN's Ted Rowlands has more now from Wisconsin, where almost three dozen cases of E. coli are on the books.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This Wisconsin couple says their 6-year-old son and 3-year-old daughter suffered kidney failure after eating tainted spinach.

ANNE GRINTJES, PARENT OF VICTIM: There's no drug or pill they can give your child to make your child better. It's almost a wait and see, and as a parent that's the worst thing. ROWLANDS: Seventy-seven-year-old Marion Graff died from kidney failure after eating spinach.

ANN WERGEN, MANITOWOC COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT: The bacteria that she had matches the fingerprint of all the other people.

ROWLANDS: What investigators can't match yet is what caused the outbreak. And until they do, people are being advised to throw away any fresh spinach.

DR. MARK HORTON, WISCONSIN PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICER: The main recommendation is not to cook the spinach; it's not to eat the spinach. The idea is, I think what makes sense to people is if you go in your refrigerator and you pull out a product and you know it's contaminated, you throw it out.

ROWLANDS: There's no formal recall. The FDA doesn't have the power to order one. But grocers around the country have taken spinach off their shelves, and restaurants are replacing it on menus.

In Texas, this California trucker was arrested for allegedly dumping a load of spinach in a creek. Meanwhile, nervous spinach growers are waiting to find out the cause of the contamination. The stakes are extremely high. If the FDA doesn't find a cause, it could leave a lasting mark on consumers.

BOB PERKINS, MONTEREY COUNTY FARM BUREAU: We want an answer to this. We have to have an answer to this. It may that it won't be as precise as we want. But at some point it will be narrowed down to likely causes. And if we can pin it down to likely causes, then we can propose practices that would eliminate those likely causes.

ROWLANDS: The E. coli strain at work is found in animal waste. Industry experts say it could be introduced at any time in the growing process. The most likely scenarios, experts say, are from tainted water or unsanitary conditions during harvest or processing. It could also come from unsafe refrigeration levels during distribution.

FDA officials say to expect more reports of people getting sick.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, San Juan Batista, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Chaos and a coup attempt in Thailand. I'll speak to a journalist in Bangkok who explains who's against who in this battle for control.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Summer driving season is over. That's been helping to drive down gas prices, that's for sure. Cheryl Casone joins us from the New York Stock Exchange with a look at how low they are.

Still not low enough.

CHERYL CASONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Really, let's get them to go a little bit lower. No kidding. Hey there, Kyra.

You know, we all know that gas prices rose steadily throughout the summer. And now they're dropping really just as quickly. Both Energy Department and AAA found that a gallon of self-serve regular now averaging less than $2.50. That's the first time that is happened since March that we've seen those levels.

Now there's no mystery here, really. People, you know, they're driving less now. The summertime is behind us. That reduces demand. And the hurricane season has not caused any disruptions likely to producing and refining operations in the Gulf of Mexico.

But those aren't convincing arguments for 42 percent of people polled by "USA Today" and Gallup. They believe the Bush administration is manipulating gas prices to help Republicans in an election year. It's always interesting, those questions, Kyra, how they play in the American public.

PHILLIPS: Sure. It becomes political, absolutely. Well, the high gas prices this summer forced a lot of people to cut back on spending elsewhere. But now that prices are coming down, well, you think people are ready to spend again?

CASONE: You would think so, absolutely. You know, retail sales are starting to look up a bit, actually.

This year's holiday shopping season, though, likely to be kind of mediocre, unfortunately, from what the numbers that we're seeing right now. The national federal retail -- National Retail Federation expects sales in November and December to increase by five percent.

So they're going to go up, but that's a bit below last year's growth rate. And that is bad news for retailers. They really count on the holiday season for one-fifth of their total annual sales. It's a big portion of their budgets and as much as half of their profits, really.

But if gas prices continue to fall, it is going to put a little extra cash in consumers' pockets. That could give an extra boost to holiday sales. Basically, Kyra, the jury is out, really, until we get closer to the holidays.

PHILLIPS: Well, in New York, you don't need to drive anywhere and spend -- spend any money on gas to go shopping. That's easy.

CASONE: It's all about the cabs, Kyra. It's all about the cabs.

PHILLIPS: There you go. All right. What else is happening on Wall Street?

(STOCK REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: Now back to Bangkok. where the Thai armed forces saw an opportunity and they took it. With the Thai prime minister in New York for the U.N. General Assembly, the military staged a coup attempt. It's been a breaking story we've been covering all morning. Now the prime minister is declaring a state of emergency and the military is declaring martial law.

Joining me on the phone, Colum Murphy, deputy editor of "The Far Eastern Economic Review."

Why don't we get to the reports that we're getting right now, Colum, and I'm just going to read it directly from the wires, that we're getting -- the Thai army has ordered all soldiers to report to base and that they are not to make further moves right now, calling for martial law. What do you know? And what have you heard?

COLUM MURPHY, "FAR EASTERN ECONOMIC REVIEW": Well, from my vantage point here in Bangkok actually, I have quite limited access to information. The coup is taking place at another side of town. But nearby my hotel -- I'm staying at the Hyatt Airwan (ph), there's quite a prominent tourist an attraction called the Airwan Shrine, and I went down there earlier, and I saw some troops, about half a dozen troops at that point, standing there, carrying guns. And on their guns and somewhere on their military uniform was a small yellow ribbon about one inch by one inch approximately. And I understand from subsequently speaking to people more familiar with the subject that that signifies that these were troops who were loyal to the king.

But apart from that directly, I haven't been able to witness much because it's quite removed from where I am right now.

PHILLIPS: So just to give context to this, Colum, if you could, because you've got the background covering this. As we're reading these reports coming across the wire that some of the military is supporting the coup, while others are still supporting the prime minister, can you explain to us the split between the prime minister and royalty, and how this is playing out and how a military could divide.

MURPHY: I wrote a piece in this month's "Far Eastern Economic Review" that speaks to this issue, in the sense that there has been growing concern here amongst analysts in Bangkok that there's a tension between the monarchy and Mr. Thaksin. Now both sides deny this quite strongly. But one thing that is for sure was that over the course of the summer, the (INAUDIBLE) Council president, General Prem (ph), did give several, quite, some would say, strong hints to Mr. Thaksin that the military, especially the military, were property of the king, and that soldiers should be loyal to the king. And this message has been repeated on at least two occasions over the summer and, in fact, today, earlier, I met with the general, and he reiterated the sentiment to me.

So that would seem to suggest to me at least that the military has been called upon to remain loyal to the king. Now, Mr. Thaksin will have his own -- how can I say -- cronies or colleagues in the military that may remain loyal to him, but in terms of absolute number and what that balance is, I can't say for now. I don't have access to that information. But my impression is that the repeated message of the summer should go a long way to assuring loyalty from the troops to the king.

PHILLIPS: So, Colum, what happened between the king and the Thai prime minister? I know there was disputed election in April. Is this about corruption, or is it about some type of personal rift between these two?

MURPHY: Well, I cannot say. In fact, nobody can say what exactly is the nature. But one thing is for sure, is that there's been a lot of criticism of Mr. Thaksin's handling of certain issues, especially corruption, and alleged allegations that when he sold a family company to the investment arm of the Singapore government in the fashion that allowed him to do so without paying any tax. This is really the straw that broke the camel's back, and this was seen as, you know, ultimate, in using in his position to take care of his own family situation.

Now, of course, you know, Mr. Thaksin will report to his very strong record, and it is a strong record, in terms of the economic growth Thailand has achieved since he came to power. So basically it's a split. To put it very simplistically, some people see it as a split between more urban, wealthier Bangkok-type Thai, and the rural Thai, which Mr. Thaksin has managed to court and win their support in amazingly huge numbers. So to say that it's divided, I mean, it's quite -- it's a little bit simplistic to say it's divided only into two. But certainly these divisions, these rifts, are becoming more prominent over the past couple of...

PHILLIPS: Colum Murphy, deputy editor for the "Far Eastern Economic Review" in Bangkok. We lost him there via his cell phone.

But we can get to CNN's Aneesh Raman. He's also on the story. He has covered this situation, also this nation, extensively.

Aneesh, maybe you can put into perspective of how dangerous this could get. We're seeing the tanks. We're hearing about boots on the grounds. We're now hearing about martial law. How bad could this get?

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN INTL. CORRESPONDENT: A couple of things in terms of that, Kyra. First, is that right now the key question is to what extent does Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai prime minister, have the loyalty of the military. We do not know, in essence, who is in control at the moment. The Thai prime minister says those who are behind this coup have been removed, that he has the allegiance. The military, though, who are on the streets, have only proclaimed allegiance to the Thai king. In 1991, Thailand saw the 17th coup in that country's history since about 1932. So you get a sense of the fact that coups were commonplace in Thailand.

But since Thaksin Shinawatra has come into power, a sense of stability within the power has taken hold. I was just there February of last year. Thaksin Shinawatra's party won a near-landslide victory in the polls. He was not popular at that time among the moderates, among the affluent people in the capital. His power base was out in the provinces. At the same time, though, the longer he was in power, the more stable this democracy was seen. That is key for investment in Thailand, which has been the exclusive, really, legacy of this prime minister, trying to get the economy of Thailand on the up, trying to get investors to come. We've already seen the Thai currency, the Thai baht, essentially drop in its value, to the largest degree it has done so in a number of years, just by reaction to this early indication of a coup.

So if things get worse, that could get ugly. The Thai prime minister, who will address the U.N. General Assembly today, will have to reassure the world he's in control. At the moment, though, we don't know if that's the case -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now, Aneesh, just looking at the background, we're talking about allegations of corruption with regard to this prime minister. But yet on the other side of things, isn't this somebody known to be loyal to the poor?

RAMAN: He is. He won re-election. He won his first election by going out into the provinces, essentially skipping the capital completely and promising economic reform out to the impoverished people. He gave a lot of money, cash in hand, to these people, economic policies that many thought were detrimental to the country in the long term, but in the short term got him undying loyalty from the Thai impoverished populations out in the provinces. He gave them computers. He gave them new schools. He gave them hospitals. He went on train tours throughout those provinces and rallied support.

What has happened in the past year, though, first, the details of a $1.9 billion tax-free sale by Thaksin Shinawatra's family was made public, further underscoring complaints that he is using his office to further his economic stature, to further, essentially, his bank amount for him and his family, and also a growing support for the opposition that really has been void in Thailand for some years. When I was there in 2005 last year, at the debate for the election, Thaksin Shinawatra didn't even show up here. You would have the democrat, his main opposition, a number of other parties, and then where the prime minister was supposed to sit was a picture of him, and they essentially mocked him, but he didn't care. That's how confident he was in his victory in his standing. That has dramatically changed into this year. A new election set for the fall, but again, what happens next is key in terms of the military. The impoverished, the poor, they don't matter. The more affluent, the more moderates in the capital, they don't matter.

The only thing that matters right now for the time being is the military and who it has allegiance to, and whether or not the coup attempt spreads, not just to the people that Thaksin Shinawatra has removed, but down to the average military personnel, and whether or not they will respect the Thai prime minister, or whether or not things could get worse very quickly -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Let me ask you, about that allegiance with regard to the military. As you know, in the United States, the military knows one boss, and that's the president. Is this normal, that a military unit would divide, some feeling loyalty to the king, others feeling loyalty to the prime minister, and then how do you even operate as a unified military, when you're divided on who your leader is, or who you're loyal to?

RAMAN: Well, the answer to the first leads to the second question, which is that the military is as usual as is normal. Thailand is a country that has a history of military coups, so in the broader sense, in the past fifty years, in the past hundred years, yes, it is perhaps seen as something that has been a recurrent situation in Thailand.

In the recent history, in the past ten years, let's say, it has not been seen as normal. Thailand has started to take on a stable government. That has been key to your second question, how do you then decide who the military is loyal to? The more stable a government, the more likely the military falls into fold, the less stable, the less likely.

The military has announced loyalty only to the king. That is important, the king is a constitutional monarch that has been seen as a critical force in keeping Thailand together over the history and in the past couple of years.

His opposition has risen against the Thai prime minister. This will be dangerous for the psyche of the Thai people. It will bring them back to the early '90s, when coups were relatively commonplace. It will reset the clock, if you will, of the democracy that was taking hold.

It is very serious, the implications of what is taking place now. And at the least of the concerns, is like you mentioned, the fact that there's now a clear sense the military is not in control of the prime minister, is operating separately, even if it is brought back into the fold, the potential for this happening again remains -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Aneesh Raman, it's amazing, usually you're covering Iranian politics right now, I know we'll talk about that later on.

But you seem to know a little bit about everything. It amazes us. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for holding in with us.

Well, President Bush at the United Nations, his focus, the Middle East. His audience, more divided than united. A closer look, straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, he was speaking to the world, but his message was aimed squarely at the Middle East. Amid a raging insurgency in Iraq and resurging violence in Afghanistan, President Bush laid out his vision for peace. Here's some of what he said today at the U.N. General assembly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, I would like to speak directly to the people across the broader Middle East. My country desires peace.

Extremists in your midst spread propaganda, claiming that the west is engaged in the war against Islam. This propaganda is false. And its purpose is to confuse you and justify acts of terror.

We respect Islam. But we will protect our people from those who pervert Islam to sow death and destruction. Our goal is to help you build a more tolerant and hopeful society that honors people of all faiths and promotes the peace.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: After talking to the U.N. today, President Bush talks to CNN tomorrow night. The president goes one on one with Wolf Blitzer in the "SITUATION ROOM". That's at 7:00 Eastern only on CNN

Iraqi insurgents aren't going away, so U.S. troops aren't either. And even amid wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. war planners are looking to two additional potential conflicts. Our Barbara Starr join us with more and all that from the Pentagon.

And we've talked about this a number a of times, the fact that U.S. military has those plans if, indeed, they're given the orders to execute it.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they do, Kyra.

Iraq, Iran, all of it, a matter of top concern to General John Abizaid, the head of the U.S. Central Command, who held a breakfast meeting here in Washington this morning with reporters. And one of the things that caught a lot of interest, actually, was his comments about Iraq.

General Abizaid saying that at this point, one should not expect to see major troop reductions in Iraq, major withdrawal of U.S. troops, before the spring of 2007. Now, this clearly because the sectarian violence has continued, especially in Baghdad, and that is a matter of great concern to U.S. military commanders.

There's about 146,000 U.S. troops in Iraq right now. But essentially what General Abizaid is talking about is keeping the structure of about 16 brigades. That means the plan they had to maybe bring home two brigades, about 10,000 troops, right around now, simply is not going to happen.

They'll continue to evaluate the situation, but with the violence ongoing, General Abizaid making it very clear earlier today, don't expect to see significant U.S. troop withdrawals from Iraq any time soon -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Now back to Iran, and this report about the Navy and its war plans possibly being carried out. Obviously it would be a last resort.

STARR: Well, that's right. What we're talking about here is what the military always called prudent planning, just in case, plans they have for everything, including Iran, if any type of military action was ordered.

But peek behind the curtain a little bit, and what we do know is that the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Mike Mullen, has asked his senior Navy staff to update him with the plan, the Navy would have if there was, if there was, military action ordered against Iran.

These meetings at the highest levels of the U.S. Navy have been going on now for about four to six weeks. And Admiral Mullen specifically asking his staff what ships, what troops, what units they would send to the Persian Gulf if action was ordered. If something like a naval blockade of Iranian oil facilities in the Gulf was ordered, how the Navy would carry that out and still keep those vital shipping lanes open. Because, of course, that would be a very significant issue for the world economy -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Barbara Starr, thanks.

Story just coming in now. We're getting word the Iraqi government is asking that the judge overseeing Saddam Hussein's trial get the boot.

Let's get more from Arwa Damon. She's working this developing story out of Iraq. What's the deal, Arwa?

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, that came in a statement on state-owned Al Iraqiya television. Iraq's government spokesperson, Ali Dabbagh, saying that the government is ordering the current judge for the Saddam Hussein trial to step down. They said that they believe he was no longer impartial, saying that he is too lenient with the defense.

But this all actually stems from a number of incidences that happened at the start of this trial; to be more specific, last week. There have been numerous calls by the prosecution for the judge to step down. They also saying that he is biassed towards the defense and that he is allowing the defense team too much time with their witnesses.

And the tipping point, the event that happened was actually in court last Thursday, when one of the witnesses stood up and said that he had gone to Saddam Hussein to ask him for help to help him find his family. At that point, Saddam Hussein responded to the witness saying, if I was a dictator, why are you coming to me? At which point the judge himself stood up and said Saddam Hussein was not a dictator. Now this has caused outrage with the prosecution. Again, standing up, demanding that the judge step down. And now Iraq's government is saying that it is ordering this judge to step down -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Arwa Damon, out of Iraq. We'll stay on top of the story. Appreciate it.

Well, straight ahead, $15 million and thousands of acres later, firefighters are saying when will it end? They're on the West Coast, working this wildfire. We're going to check out the damage and the forecast.

And more on the trouble in Thailand. Tanks roll into Bangkok. We'll go there live for the latest on the attempted coup.

You're watching this all from the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Firefighters still have their hands full in southern California. Their biggest problem now is the so-called day fire. It's getting closer to a rural community in the Los Padres National Forest. It's scorched more than 84,000 acres since it started on Labor Day. It's still only 15 percent contained.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Well, coming up, severe state of emergency in Thailand, as the country's own tanks rumble through Bangkok. The latest on this breaking story. We're live from that nation, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com