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Criminal Cops?; Amish School Shooting; Kids On Guard: School Security; Ramadi Truck Bomb; Foley Abused As Kid

Aired October 04, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: We begin this morning with a stunning announcement in Baghdad. An entire police brigade accused of complicity with death squads and yanked out of service. Live to the Pentagon now and correspondent Barbara Starr for details.
Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony.

This revelation, this news coming just a little while ago when the chief U.S. military spokesperson in Baghdad, General Bill Caldwell, held a press conference and announced that a full brigade of Iraqi police, that's about 1,000 police, are being pulled off the streets of Baghdad. There are allegations of their complicity with death squads, with militias, and an assessment that this unit may not be loyal to the central government.

It's a bombshell announcement. But to people who have been observing the situation in Iraq, perhaps a long time in coming because the unending violence on the street certainly seems to have something to do with Iraqi security forces who may be watching and allowing some of it to happen. Here is what General Caldwell had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, SPOKESMAN, MULTINATIONAL FORCE-IRAQ: The government of Iraq had lost trusted confidence in the 8th Brigade, the second national police division's ability to serve the public due to their poor performance and alleged criminal wrongdoings. And, therefore, they have been pulled offline and will go through retraining before they'll be recertified and allowed to again conduct activities as police forces for the government of Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: General Caldwell going on to say that there were allegations again of criminal wrongdoing and that this police unit had simply allowed, stood by, while death squads and militias operated in Baghdad. So they are off the streets. They will conduct criminal background checks on the members of this Iraqi security unit and see who they can put back on the street and who may be prosecuted. It's not clear what will happen, if anything, to the members of that unit who are, shall we say, determined to be involved in wrongdoing.

Tony.

HARRIS: And, Barbara, if you would, fill us in on these disturbing numbers with regard to U.S. troops over the last 96 hours.

STARR: It has been extremely grim. General Caldwell not cutting any corners, not pulling any punches on this, reminding everyone, he did, that in the last 96 hours, 18 U.S. service members have lost their lives in Iraq. General Caldwell saying that IED attacks and suicide car bomb attacks are now at what he called all-time highs.

Tony.

HARRIS: Barbara Starr for us at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you.

STARR: Sure.

HARRIS: In Pennsylvania, a heartbroken community prepares to bury its dead. Funerals will be held tomorrow and Friday for the five Amish girls gunned down at their school. Five more girls are still in critical or serious condition. As mourners gathered for a candlelight vigil, investigators were learning more disturbing details about the gunman. The latest now from CNN's senior correspondent Allan Chernoff in Lancaster County.

Allan, good morning.

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony.

The crime here just so horrific. Ten schoolgirls shot by a killer who seemed to have no motive at all. It was just a huge riddle to the police until yesterday when they announced that they had discovered a secret that the killer seems to have been holding.

Charles Roberts apparently shared this dark secret with his wife just before he began shooting the girls. He spoke to her over a cell phone and then he also left a suicide note for his wife as well. In that note, he revealed that he had actually molested two very young relatives 20 years ago.

Now the police say they have not yet confirmed this. They're still working to confirm that and we're hoping to learn more about that later today. But his claim was that he did molest two very young relatives 20 years ago when he was 12 years old. He also said that he had had dreams about possibly doing it again to some young girls.

Now police also say Mr. Roberts was extremely angry over the death of his first-born child, Elise, who lived for only 20 minutes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. JEFFREY MILLER, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: Roberts was angry with God for taking Elise as outlined in his suicide note, stating that it had changed his life forever and he was not the same since it happened. Roberts expressed hate towards himself and towards God.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CHERNOFF: Police believe that Roberts did intend to molest the girls, but they say there was no evidence that he actually did that. In fact, they believe that he panicked when the police arrived at the schoolhouse and that's when he began shooting the girls.

Tony.

HARRIS: And, Allan, I thought this was stunning yesterday. That community devastated by what has happened is calling for prayer and forgiveness and privacy.

CHERNOFF: Yes. Well, as you know, the Amish are very private people, but they also are very, very forgiving people. They very much believe in the determination of God. That God has wiled whatever is going to happen, whatever has happened. And in this case, many are saying it's simply God's will and they are accepting and also extremely forgiving. It is very much of an Amish way to forgive, to believe that somebody cannot be evil.

HARRIS: CNN's Allan Chernoff for us. Allan, thank you.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It's hard to believe that something that everyone can relate to, they're trying to keep their kids safe. Schools use security cameras, metal detectors and armed guards. But as Kim Rouggie of CNN affiliate KTLA reports, every new attack raises new concerns and new questions like, what more can be done?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KIM ROUGGIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Three deadly school shootings in a week. They may have happened outside California, but the fear is also felt here at home.

RACHEL CAMPOS, PARENT: As a parent, I can't help but still have this fear that, what if?

ROUGGIE: A what if scenario is exactly what L.A. school police say they're continuously training for. KTLA was allowed to see a class in progress at their headquarters. These men and women are the very people who take care of your children at school.

CHIEF LAWRENCE MANION, LOS ANGELES SCHOOLS POLICE: Today, they train. Tomorrow, they may be actually participating in some form of an emergency. We can simulate fires, vehicles being turned over, explosions, hostage situations. Anything imaginable.

BOB SPEARS, EMERGENCY SERVICES, L.A. SCHOOLS: So that in the event that, God forbid, that they are challenged with the real thing, it will be something that they've thought about and they've planned about and they've talked about and that they're more prepared for.

ROUGGIE: There are hardly any schools around anymore that aren't locked up and fenced in. At the Santa Monica Boulevard Charter School, only one entrance door remains unlocked during school hours and it opens into an office, not the campus itself. Pre-identified parents are given cards like this for campus access.

DON WILSON, SANTA MONICA BOULEVARD CHARTER SCHOOL: That way we have a control of who comes in to the campus, who's going off of the campus. Anybody else who comes on has to come through a main front door. They pass through the front office where they have to sign in and we check them in and make sure that everything is cleared.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well, it's our focus today -- school safety. And we want to hear from you. Do you have concerns about your child's security? E-mail us right now at cnnnewsroom@cnn.com.

HARRIS: And we're just getting news of another horrible suicide attack in Baghdad. Actually in the city of Ramadi. Carol Lin is following that for us.

Good morning, Carol.

I don't believe we have Carol's microphone. Let me see if I can fill in some of the details until Carol switches on that microphone.

This is the story of a suicide truck bombing attack.

OK. Carol is ready for us now.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, just switched -- I need to switch it a little bit further.

Anyway, this is what CNN has been able to confirm. Ramadi is a Sunni stronghold there. And there was a suicide truck bomber which blew up -- blew himself up outside the Iraqi army stronghold -- army headquarters there. According to the Reuters wire service, they interviewed the police chief, Brigadier Hamid Farhan (ph), who said that the truck exploded outside the base in western Ramadi. This base is close to several U.S. military installations, according to residents there speaking to the Reuters wire service.

So CNN has been able to confirm that this, in fact, did occur. Tony, we're working on getting confirmation of the number of injured. But a hospital has confirmed that a number of injured are now coming in.

HARRIS: OK, Carol, appreciate it. Thank you.

Personal demons. An attorney for former Congressman Mark Foley says his client's troubled past may have ignited the e-mail scandal. Will details blunt the outrage? Here's CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Out of Congress, out of sight. Mark Foley is still grabbing headlines. His attorney and friend, David Roth, shed new, disturbing details on the former congressman's life, saying Foley was molested as a teenager.

DAVID ROTH, MARK FOLEY'S ATTORNEY: Mark does not blame the trauma he sustained as a young adolescent for his totally inappropriate e-mails and IMs. He continues to offer no excuse whatsoever for his conduct. As is so often the case with victims of abuse, Mark advises that he kept his shame to himself for almost 40 years. Specifically, Mark has asked that you be told that between the ages of 13 and 15 he was molested by a clergyman.

ZARRELLA: There was no proof or details and Roth would not disclose the clergyman's faith. Roth did say Foley wanted to publicly state "he is gay." But Roth insisted Foley is not a pedophile.

On the campaign trail, the developments overshadowed the two men vying to replace Foley. Joe Negron spent his first full day as the new Republican candidate for the 16th congressional district in court. Negron was an alternate juror in a highly publicized murder case known here in Stuart, Florida, as the "Salerno Strangler." Chosen to replace Mark Foley, Negron says this isn't such a bad way to start his run.

JOE NEGRON, (R) FLORIDA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I think my civic duty to this community is way more important than my campaign.

ZARRELLA: By the lunch break, the judge had released him from that duty. A good thing. Negron needs to start shaking hands pretty quickly. His opponent, Democrat Tim Mahoney, says his front-runner status means people are finally paying attention to him and the issues.

TIM MAHONEY, (D) FLORIDA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I can now come out and talk about port security, which is something that's far more important than a political race and I can get the press to come out and we can talk about issues that really matter to the American people.

ZARRELLA: Mahoney has good reason to be encouraged. A poll over the weekend, before Negron was named his opponent, showed Mahoney leading. He held a three point advantage, 49 to 46 percent. Voters were told a vote for Foley goes to the new Republican candidate. A red district last week leading blue this week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: John Zarrella joins us now.

Good to see you, John.

ZARRELLA: Hi, Tony.

HARRIS: First of all, I seem to remember asking this same question when we learned that Foley was checking himself in for alcohol rehab. But has Foley ever talked publicly about being molested before?

ZARRELLA: No, he never has. And when his attorney, David Roth, was asked that yesterday, Roth's response as to why Mr. Foley never addressed it in the past was shame, shame that he kept it a secret nearly 40 years. Simply out of shame. And saying that, that is Mr. Roth saying, that Mark Foley just did not want to bring that forth. Something that he hid like many victims of abuse do. Those were the words of Mr. Roth.

HARRIS: And, John, will Foley or the attorney provide any more information, any more background on the allegation of molestation and I guess the follow-up to that is, is he blaming the molestation for his behavior with the pages -- for the e-mails?

ZARRELLA: Answer that first. No, he's not blaming that for his behavior with the pages. But I can tell you that, you know, here at first blush, the day after these announcements, that a lot of the reaction that's coming out is, it's just not fair. It should not have been handled this way. That if they were going to say that he was molested by a clergyman, that in all fairness the name should have been revealed and that was not revealed.

And Mr. Roth said that he had hoped that Mark Foley would in 30 days or so himself address that, perhaps standing right here again, address that issue and shed more light on it. But there were no promises that that would happen and there were no -- certainly no details given and no proof given as to this allegation.

HARRIS: John Zarrella for us in West Palm Beach, Florida. John, appreciate it. Thank you.

And get your daily dose of political news. Click on to CNN's new Political Ticker. There it is. Go to cnn.com/ticker.

WHITFIELD: Hey, this story we can't stop talking about because it seems to be haunting everybody. School violence. For parents and kids, a cause for anxiety certainly. Ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, a grief counselor will tell us how to discuss the topic with your children.

HARRIS: And a mid-air mystery. Two planes collide. The big one crashes. The much smaller one lands safely. We'll hear from a man who survived the ordeal. That's straight ahead in the NEWSROOM. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And we want to update you now on the breaking news just in to CNN. There has been a serious suicide attack in the Iraqi city of Ramadi. Cal Perry is on the ground there in Baghdad for us.

Cal, what can you tell us?

CAL PERRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we know so far, and this just minutes ago from Iraqi police in downtown Ramadi outside the Iraqi army headquarters there, a massive explosion. What they believe as a truck bomb. No word on casualties at this point except police telling CNN they do expect casualties and they do expect them to be high. All of this on day 12 of Ramadan. Insurgents promising an uptick of violence. It has been exactly that. In just the first three days of October, 14 U.S. troops killed so far this month.

HARRIS: OK. And, Cal, just remind everyone watching that this is an area that has been described as a Sunni insurgent stronghold. Is that correct?

PERRY: Absolutely. This is the al Anbar Province. We see heavy fighting in this province in both Fallujah and in Ramadi on a daily basis. The U.S. Marines in Ramadi often times at the government center get attacked multiple times a day. CNN's correspondent Michael Ware was recently embedded there. He said that he was with a company, the 38 Marines. They have taken heavy casualties over the course of the year. This is a place, as you've said, where we do see heavy fighting.

HARRIS: CNN's Cal Perry for us. Cal, appreciate it. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Here at home, investigators in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, still looking for clues to a tragedy today. Police say Charles Roberts spent almost a week planning his attack at an Amish school. Meanwhile, they're hoping to interview two of Roberts' relatives who may have been molested by him 20 years ago. Five Amish girls died in the schoolhouse attack. Five others still in critical or serious condition. Funeral services for four of the victims will be held tomorrow. The fifth is scheduled for Friday.

So what do you say to children after such a shocking and violent tragedy? Patti Homan is with us now from Lancaster County. She is the program director of the Pathway Center for Grief and Loss.

Miss Homan, good to see you.

PATTI HOMAN, PATHWAYS CENTER FOR GRIEF & LOSS: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: What have you been able to do for the families directly affected there?

HOMAN: Well, I have not been working directly with the families. There is another group doing that. Anytime there's a critical incident such as this, every community has their own resources. And there's usually a variety of different resources that respond and go into place to address the issue. Pathway Center for Grief and Loss will be meeting the needs of any grief children all the time and we'll be a resource to the Amish families and those supporting them in the coming weeks and months ahead.

WHITFIELD: But I would imagine the challenges are far greater because you are dealing with a community that is very closed and they hold dear their traditions and aren't always open to letting outsiders in. So talk to me about the challenges of trying to reach out to them.

HOMAN: Well, actually, in any given time we always have Amish that we're serving in our hospice care. We're part of a hospice of Lancaster County and our hospice serves Amish all the time. So they certainly are receptive to our support. And we, at times, go out to the homes and support the children and the families. So it's an integral part of what we offer.

WHITFIELD: In general, what kind of support do you traditionally try to lend to children who have witnessed, experienced or perhaps who are haunted by tragedies on scales like this?

HOMAN: Well, most importantly, not to push anything. Trauma is huge and it's actually different than grief. So you have to tread very lightly and very slowly and really take the child's -- the child will tell you what they need. Kids -- other kids in the community also are affected by this and we need to look for opportunities to kind of draw them out and help them kind of express the worries and the fears that they have.

WHITFIELD: And a lot of kids in the past week are expressing all kinds of concerns perhaps to their parents, not because they experienced anything like this at their school recently, but just witnessing all the news accounts of all that has taken place in the past week at many schools across the country. Do you wait for your child to ask you certain questions or is it time for you to initiate discussions about what to do and trying to allay their fears on your own?

HOMAN: Excellent question. You definitely do not wait. It's really important for all adults to kind of model for their children and talk about this is scary stuff. It's upsetting. It's not fair. To really name it and initiate the conversation with children so that they feel safe asking the questions to you. Throughout the country, the ripple effect on these types of incidents are felt -- because we don't get over a loss. We learn how to live with it. And we're reminded of our previous losses whenever we have another one. So many times for children who have had loss already, this is going to affect them significantly.

WHITFIELD: How concerned are you about the kids in the Amish community there who are trying to deal with this kind of tragedy that has taken place right in their own backyard?

HOMAN: Oh, certainly very concerned. It's a huge adjustment for any child to have a loss, and particularly these children. But there's a lot of different ways to support children. We need to kind of look for ways to help them express the worries and the fears they have inside. I brought along -- we have a camp for grieving children. And I brought along a quilt that just sort of shows an example of a young boy whose dad died and he talks about how, you know, love never dies. I'll always love you. And he shows right here. He feels stress, happy, sad, normal. So children feel a whole range of feelings and we need to look for ways to help them express them.

WHITFIELD: And so that's one of the avenues that you all advocate. Artwork. Projects like that to help kids express themselves where oftentimes they really can't do it verbally.

HOMAN: Exactly. In fact, I also brought along a couple of cards written by kids. For example, these are the types of questions children have. Why do people die? Why is life unfair? These are all the worries that they have. And, actually, you know, I represent hospice at a national level for grief and loss and throughout the country most people don't realize but there are bereavement programs that serve anyone in the community with a loss. So they'll serve all kinds of children who are grieving, not just hospice families. And particularly in rural areas, it's important for people to understand that hospice grieving programs are a resource to any grieving children in their community.

WHITFIELD: Patti Homan, program director of the Pathway Center for Grief and Loss. Thanks so much for your time and best wishes on what we know will be great challenges ahead.

HOMAN: Sure. Thank you very much.

WHITFIELD: Tony.

HARRIS: And today on CNN, we are taking a closer look at school security. Straight ahead in the NEWSROOM, we'll hear from three school principals what they're doing to protect their students and staff.

And we want to hear from you. Do you have concerns about your child's safety at school? E-mail us now, cnnnewsroom@cnn.com. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: So, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

HARRIS: Yesterday, intraday highs, close of the day highs. The markets, right?

WHITFIELD: Yes.

HARRIS: So what do you think today? A little hangover from all of the jubilation and celebration from yesterday?

WHITFIELD: Well, maybe a little hangover.

HARRIS: You think so?

WHITFIELD: But I would hope that the numbers are still, you know, up, up, up.

HARRIS: OK. That's a tease. Michael, let's see the big board. Thirty-five points we're at. Up 35 points.

WHITFIELD: We like that.

HARRIS: No hangover to speak of. And you were asking me about Nasdaq, right?

WHITFIELD: Oh, yes.

HARRIS: Thanks for the question. WHITFIELD: In the break I was.

HARRIS: The Nasdaq up, what was that, Vicki, 14? Close to 15 points. Forget about a hangover. The market is soaring. We'll check in with Susan Lisovicz in just a bit for . . .

WHITFIELD: Even if there is a hangover, it's a happy hangover.

HARRIS: It's a happy hangover. We'll do that later in the hour.

WHITFIELD: But first, out of office. Now in disgrace. New claims in the Mark Foley scandal. Details straight ahead right here in the NEWSROOM.

HARRIS: And this. A midair mystery. Two planes collide. The big one crashes. The much smaller one lands safely. We'll hear from a man who survived the ordeal. Imagine that. That's straight ahead.

WHITFIELD: That's a survivor story.

HARRIS: Yes, in the NEWSROOM. We're right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Welcome back. Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris. Some top Republicans are rushing to the defense of the embattled speaker of the house. Dennis Hastert says he will not resign as speaker over his handling of the Capitol Hill e-mail scandal. It already forced the resignation of Congressman Mark Foley. President Bush has voiced his support, as have some GOP leaders on Capitol Hill. The number two Republican in the House, John Boehner, says Hastert should not resign. But he also says he thought Hastert had dealt with the issue months ago.

Well, all caught up in the political storm, CNN congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel has a closer look now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In Cincinnati, Ohio...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Boehner, welcome to the program. Good to have you...

KOPPEL: ... the second ranking Republican in the House took aim at the chambers' top Republican.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MAJORITY LEADER: I believe I talked to the speaker, and he told me it had been taken care of. And in my position, it's in his corner. It's his responsibility.

KOPPEL: Appearing on a syndicated radio show and in a startling move, Boehner broke ranks with Speaker Dennis Hastert.

BOEHNER: The Clerk in the House who runs the page program, the Page Board, all report to the speaker, and I believe that it had been dealt with.

KOPPEL: But at the same time, Boehner said he disagreed Hastert should resign. In a letter to the editor of "The Washington Times," Boehner suggested, "Whoever leaked the sexually explicit instant messages exchanged between Congressman Foley and an underage page had a political agenda." Speaker Hastert agreed, and in a separate radio interview warned if he's forced to step aside, the Republican Party could suffer.

REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: There's some people that try to tear us down. And we are the insulation to protect this country, and if they get to me, it looks like that, you know, they could affect our election as well.

KOPPEL: In fact, the Foley scandal is now ammunition in at least one Democrat's campaign ad. Minnesota Democrat Patty Wetterling rolled out this ad Tuesday...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shocks the conscience. Congressional leaders have admitted covering up the predatory behavior of a congressman who used the Internet to molest children.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And now Andrea Koppel joins us live from the Hill. All right, so, Andrea, let's talk about the chronology. Because there seems to be a whole lot of back and forth over who knew what when.

How is it that the attorney general, as well as other federal investigators, say that as early as this past spring they did look into it, but nothing came of their investigation. And then somehow, some high-ranking Republicans said they never knew anything about the gravity of the situation.

KOPPEL: Well, certainly what Dennis Hastert is saying is that he does not dispute the fact that the head of the Republican Congressional Campaign Committee, New York Republican Tom Reynolds, told him about the situation in the spring. Dennis Hastert said he doesn't remember that. His aides, however, knew, Fred, back in the fall of last year, never told the speaker. And the way that it was taken care of at the time -- remember, these were the innocuous exchanges they thought were being exchanged between Foley and a former page, the ones that had to do with sending a picture and what he wanted for his birthday -- that that was handled in a -- just by approaching Foley and telling him to cut off the communications.

What has outraged so many within the conservative community, let alone the Democratic, more liberal community, is the fact that there was no investigation to see, perhaps, if there had been any other exchanges involved, that nobody asked Foley about those -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, so still a lot of folks very unhappy with the answers about the e-mails or the instant messages. So now we're hearing through Foley's attorney things such as he's dealing with alcoholism, he was molested as a child, he is gay. Any of these things sound familiar to any of the people on the Hill who say they thought they knew him well?

KOPPEL: Well, I'll tell you what is definitely sounding familiar -- and we've heard from any number of former pages that the congressman, now former Congressman Foley, had a reputation as being a very friendly person and somebody who they saw as being perhaps even a little bit creepy.

WHITFIELD: And if that's the case, why didn't that raise a red flag?

KOPPEL: It's a very good question, and that is certainly what has Republicans right now playing defense. That they are not -- they say that it was something that they had handled. But clearly, it wasn't handled as aggressively as many people would have liked, and that there had been no investigation at the time that there were these red flags that many people say should have been noticed earlier.

WHITFIELD: Congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel, thanks so much. Part of the best political team on television -- Tony.

HARRIS: Investigators in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, still looking for clues to a tragedy today. Police say Charles Roberts spent almost a week planning his attack at an Amish school. Meanwhile, they're hoping to interview two of Roberts' relatives who may have been molested by him 20 years ago. Five Amish girls died in the schoolhouse attack, five others still in critical or serious condition. Funeral services for four of the victims will be held tomorrow. The fifth is scheduled for Friday.

Students at a Colorado high school are allowed back inside today. They're gathering belongings left behind when they fled from a gunman. Classes resume tomorrow at Platte Canyon High School in the town of Bailey.

WHITFIELD: And new details also emerging in that tragedy, which left one student dead last week. More from KDVR's Jeremy Hubbard.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY HUBBARD, KDVR REPORTER (voice-over): This is as close as they want anyone to get, downstairs in the library, away from the scene of the school shooting. But distance doesn't stop the imagination from wondering about horrible things that happened just beyond that glass.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just kind of fortified a position where he was at.

HUBBARD: The sheriff says this window had been shot out by SWAT officers. It was one of three places where they tried to enter the room to rescue 16-year-old hostage Emily Keyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will never forget Emily and what happened here last week.

HUBBARD: A tour of the high school is to show off new safety measures here. And in this crowd is one expert who knows that subject all too well.

FRANK DEANGELES, PRINCIPAL, COLUMBINE HIGH: It triggers some emotions.

HUBBARD: Frank DeAngeles, principal at Columbine High School, brought in here to help the staff cope with the shooting.

DEANGELES: It brought me back to April 20th '99.

HUBBARD: But he says no amount of repairs and no amount of security will make things the way they were.

DEANGELES: People keep asking me, when will it return to normal? And I say normalcy will never be part of Columbine High School and it will never be part of Platte Canyon. It cannot return to where it was. It's not going to happen.

HUBBARD: Still, Platte Canyon plans to try. Tomorrow, they'll be back to class, and things will seem like they used to, with one exception: no one will get close to this classroom. It will be closed off, sealed up for the rest of the year, so kids won't have to always think about what happened on the other side of the glass.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: That's sad, isn't it? That is the new norm.

Well, we want to hear from you. Do you have concerns about your child's safety at school? E-mail us right now at CNNnewsroom@CNN.com.

HARRIS: Investigators are pouring over a flight recorders from the Brazilian airliner that crashed last week. The plane went down in the Amazon after clipping a corporate jet. All 155 people aboard were killed.

The smaller plane managed to land safely, but its two pilots have had their passports seized. Authorities are questioning them about the collision. There's speculation the small plane was flying at the wrong altitude. A Brazilian newspaper reports the pilots ignored orders from air traffic control to descend 1,000 feet.

"New York Times" reporter Joe Sharkey was a passenger on the corporate jet. He joins us by phone from Glen Ridge, New Jersey, to talk about his terrifying ordeal.

Joe, good to talk to you, but I have to ask you off the top, what do you make of the reports from the Brazilian newspaper that perhaps the pilots of your corporate jet ignored orders that might have prevented this?

JOE SHARKEY, "NEW YORK TIMES": First I have to make sure that I make it clear that the amount of grief that all of us who were on the corporate plane felt we once learned three hours later that we'd been hit by a 737. Now, as far as the speculation in the Brazilian newspapers, there's an awful lot of fury going on in Brazil. I think we need to wait to see what the real story is. The Amazon airspace is notorious for poor air traffic control. There are dead zones, and there's just a record of atrocious air traffic control in that zone.

HARRIS: OK, Joe, were you in a position at any point in time to hear the back and forth between air traffic control and the pilots?

SHARKEY: No, there was no -- they didn't have air-traffic control. We were in a zone where the only thing they could do was they managed to send a mayday out that was picked up by a cargo plane somewhere in the vicinity. They couldn't -- there was no air traffic control conversation, that I'm aware of. They were by themselves. I know they were at 37,000 feet, because I had just been up to the cockpit five minutes before the impact, and I don't -- I didn't feel that we descended or anything.

HARRIS: Joe, let's turn our attention now to your ordeal. You just mentioned it, 37,000 feet.

SHARKEY: Yes.

HARRIS: What were you doing in the moments just before the collision?

SHARKEY: I was working on a laptop. I was right on the wing, the left wing where the -- the tip of which was sheered off. I was working with the window shade pulled down. I heard a bang. I don't mean a boom, I mean a bang, sort of like if you hit a pot hole in a car at a moderate rate of speed. I felt a jolt and then I felt nothing else. The plane remained stable. I opened the window and my heart sank. I just saw the shocking damage to the wing, to the -- at least four feet of it was sheared off. later I would learn that part of the tail had been damaged seriously.

HARRIS: Joe, you said -- you just mentioned your heart sank. You describe the next 30 minutes or so as the most harrowing of your life. Your thoughts go between what and what in those moments?

SHARKEY: Well, for the first 15 minutes of that 30-minute flight, I am trying to assess the situation. It was very calm onboard. Nobody was panicking. The other passengers were veteran flyers. One was a flight engineer. It was clear that it was very, very serious, not clear yet that it was really serious.

After 15 minutes, one of the passengers that was an engineer had been looking out the window at the wing and noticed that the skin on the wing starting to peel and that meant we had a very limited amount of time left in the air, and we're over the Amazon, the middle of the Amazon, so we really didn't -- it was quickly clear to all of us that there was no immediate airport that anyone knew of.

HARRIS: So, Joe, just to jump ahead here a little bit, the pilots managed to bring the plane down safely. What are your thoughts as to -- can you even explain how it is that you collide with a 737, the big plane crashes and the small plane, there are survivors telling their stories.

SHARKEY: I'm speculating now. I was there, but nobody saw a 737. A couple of people saw a shadow. Tremendously high rate of speed. You'd have to speculate, in order for this to work logically, the 73 had to have gone over almost on its belly, clipped us and then became destabilized. No one can explain to us and we'll never know how we walked out of this. I should not be alive today.

HARRIS: Wow. Joe, we are happy that you are, and are able to tell this story. We -- our hearts go out, obviously, to everyone who...

SHARKEY: Yes.

HARRIS: ... has lost their lives and their families, of course.

Joe, thanks for your time.

SHARKEY: You're welcome.

WHITFIELD: Wow. That's heart stopping.

Well, we all look forward to fall, and perhaps even winter. But we don't look forward to the high heating bills. Gerri Willis, though, has some perhaps good news for us a little bit later.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, you know, glass half full today on Top Tips. Natural gas prices are going down. Still, there's stuff you need to know about it. We'll tell you when Top Tips comes back next.

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WHITFIELD: So even before the first flakes of winter, something else is falling -- the price of natural gas. Yep, the same heating fuel that was sky high last year, now at four-year lows. But there is still money to be saved.

Here with her Tips, CNN's personal finance editor Gerri Willis.

So what does this mean for consumers?

GERRI WILLIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Fred, good to see you.

Your natural gas bills could be down 5 percent to 10 percent this winter, and that's because we've had a very mild hurricane season. Plus, there's more natural gas production from the Gulf Coast region, and last year's winter was so warm, believe it or not, we still have leftovers in our gas storage facilities. So, like I said, glass half full here.

WHITFIELD: All right, but don't be so sure? Still keep your guard up?

WILLIS: Well, look, just because prices are down today doesn't mean it's going to stay that way for the whole winter. If the weather turns colder, natural gas prices will be on the rise again. Keep in mind that the price of home energy, including heating oil and electricity prices, have been increasing steadily for the past six years. So big picture is not as happy, but make sure you stay vigilant when it comes to conservation. That means cleaning your furnace, checking your weather stripping and using programmable thermostats.

For more information on energy conservation, go to American Council for Energy Efficient Economy -- what a mouthful -- ACEEE.org. It's a really good Web site.

WHITFIELD: So I'm also hearing your warning -- don't take the gamble either.

WILLIS: Well, a lot of people out there, Fred, are getting letters in the mail from third-party natural gas providers, and they say, hey, you can lock in your natural gas price now for the winter. And we did a lot of work on this. The people we talked to said ignore these letters, because it's generally not worth the gamble. These third-party providers are not regulated. If the company goes bankrupt or if you find you don't like the terms of the contract, there's not a lot you can do. And if you lock in your rates now, rates could go even lower, you won't be able to take advantage of that.

And, Fred, I just want to remind your viewers, we want to hear their questions. You can send us questions to toptips@CNN.com. We answer them right here every Friday, and that's coming right up. So we'll have that very soon.

WHITFIELD: Perfect. Thanks so much, Gerri.

WILLIS: Thank you. Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Tony.

HARRIS: Well, it is burning up the airwaves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just going to give the Democrats the fuel that they need to burn down the party, and I hope it doesn't wind up in a Republican meltdown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: The Foley fallout causing concern on conservative talk radio. That story, straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. A new study predicts a downturn for housing prices. I'll tell you which areas may get hit the hardest.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Let's go straight to the NEWSROOM for a developing story with Carol Lin.

LIN: Fredricka, we just got this in to the CNN Center. The Irish Republican Army, no longer a security threat in Northern Ireland. This according to an independent cease-fire watchdog.

Just a short time ago, Prime Minister Tony Blair had this to say about that report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It says that the IRA leadership is taking a firm stance against any involvement in crime. In short, Sinn Fein and the IRA are following the political path and the commitment to exclusively peaceful and democratic means.

Given the past, including the not too distance past, I understand why many will be skeptical about that statement. But it is a statement based on the Independent Monitoring Commission's objective assessment. The IRA's campaign is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Fred, significant because the IRA conflict between Northern Ireland and the U.K. had been going on for 30 years. More than 3,000 people were killed in terrorist attacks. This, to the West, is one of the oldest terrorist organizations in the world.

And eight years ago, there was a cease-fire agreement. This may be the outcome of that cease-fire agreement, laying the foundation for a coalition government. And this potentially, Fred, could be Prime Minister Blair's legacy. This is his last term in office. There's a lot at stake here. Down the years, he could be claiming -- he could claim to be the prime minister who finally, definitively brought peace to the region.

WHITFIELD: Good timing for him because I know his worry for the past couple of months has really been his legacy would mostly be overshadowed by Britain's involvement with the war in Iraq.

LIN: Right.

WHITFIELD: So that would be interesting.

LIN: You bet.

WHITFIELD: Carol Lin, thanks so much.

HARRIS: And to business news now. After trying and failing several times over the past week, the best known stock average in the world managed to set two new records yesterday. And the Dow, Fred, is on a roll again today.

WHITFIELD:: We like that.

HARRIS: Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange following every move for us.

(MARKET REPORT)

HARRIS: Susan, thank you. WHITFIELD: Well, new salacious details about a disgraced Congressman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID ROTH, ATTORNEY FOR FORMER REP. MARK FOLEY: Between the ages of 13 and 15, he was molested by a clergyman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The latest claims and the questions that they are now raising revealed in the NEWSROOM.

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