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Siege of Amara, Iraq; High-Level Sit-Down at White House Today; Can U.S. Still Hope to Win War in Iraq?; Terror Ad

Aired October 20, 2006 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to continue to monitor the secretary of defense there, side by side with the Republican of Korea minister of national defense, basically his other half but in South Korea. The same type of job.
Just talking about the situation in Iraq. We're going to talk more about that, the violence in Amara, and also this change of tactics.

Now the president going to consult two very powerful generals within the U.S. military, as you heard from Rumsfeld. We're even being told that General Abizaid is on his way to D.C., getting ready to meet with the president actually this afternoon.

The second hour of CNN LIVE FROM -- or CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is the CNN NEWSROOM.

And the hour's top story, possibly the biggest, boldest move yet by a renegade militia in Iraq. Reports indicate the Mehdi army of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is now in control of the southern city of Amara near the Iranian border. And we're hearing at least 16 people are dead.

The trouble started when the provincial police intelligence chief who also was a leading member of a rival militia was killed in a bombing. It was just two months ago that British troops turned over control of Amara to Iraqi police.

CNN's Arwa Damon is watching developments in Amara from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: According to senior police officials, the clashes erupted following an incident on Wednesday when a roadside bomb killed the senior intelligence officer for the police for Masan Province (ph). Following that incident, members of his tribe went to one of Muqtada al-Sadr's offices and detained the brother of a senior Mehdi militia commander.

This caused hundreds of Mehdi militiamen to storm into downtown Amara and attack two police stations. The clashes lasted all day on Thursday and into Friday.

Finally, on Friday, the Iraqi police were no longer able to repel the attackers. They deserted the police stations. The Mehdi militia took them over and set one of them on fire.

Following that, the Iraqi government dispatched hundreds more police and Iraqi army soldiers to that area. Right now, according to a spokesperson for the Iraqi army, the situation is relatively under control. British forces are on standby should the Iraqi government ask them for backup.

This incident really underscores one of the main issues facing the Iraqi government today. That is the issue of disarming the militias.

It also raises the crucial question of who controls the streets? From what we are hearing right now, Amara is relatively calm. The question is, has relative stability been restored to the city of Amara because of the presence of the Iraqi security forces, or is it because Muqtada al-Sadr himself phoned his offices in Amara and called for calm, additionally sending a group of representatives down to that area to assess the situation?

Again, what is the Iraqi government going to do now about disarming the militias? That is one of the core questions that faces them here.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: A high-level sit-down at the White House featuring the president, the defense secretary and top military commanders, all facing a critical time in the fight for Iraq.

White House Correspondent Elaine Quijano standing by with more -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Kyra.

Well, we're just getting word that in fact General Abizaid will be meeting with President Bush today in person sometime between 3:00 and 4:00 this afternoon. This information just coming in moments ago. Of course, you've been talking about the meeting that is scheduled to take place not just with General Abizaid, but also top commanders -- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush, among others.

Now, all of this is happening, of course, as there have been some pressures put on this administration, not just from Democrats, but from Republicans as well, to change its strategy, or at least to consider changing its strategy in Iraq. Interestingly, White House spokesman Tony Snow getting into a bit of a war of words with reporters over the difference between "tactics" and "strategy".

In any case, President Bush today continuing to raise money, because, of course, we are in the midst of an election season. The congressional midterm elections taking place next month. But the president today included in his remarks something that we really haven't heard before. In addition to staunch defense of his Iraq policy, the president also making reference to the terrorist attempts to try to shape public opinion.

Take a listen to what the president had to say earlier today at the Mayflower hotel here in Washington, D.C.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The terrorists are trying to influence public opinion around the world and right here in the United States. They carry video cameras, film their atrocities, e-mail images in video clips to Middle Eastern cable networks like Al-Jazeera and opinion leaders throughout the West. They operate Web sites where they say their goal is to "carry out a media war that is parallel to the military war."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, certainly President Bush has talked about the images in the conflict being used to try to change public opinion. But I asked after the president made his remarks at the White House press briefing with Tony Snow just a short time ago what exactly the president meant when he talked about terrorists giving this kind of video and e-mail footage to Western -- to opinion leaders throughout the West.

Here's a little bit of that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It shows real sophistication on the part of these guys because it creates the impression that Americans are sitting ducks and that these guys are capable, when, in fact, while you have a capable enemy, they're dying in much greater numbers and suffering much greater damage. Now, I know that's hard to -- as General Caldwell said yesterday, you can have this carnage and progress existing side by side.

Unfortunately, the pictures are all moving in one way. So the president was referring to the attempt to take images like that and use those as a way of not only -- of trying to break the will of the American people. And it's not going to work.

QUIJANO: Do you think it's wrong for CNN to show that?

SNOW: No, no. We're not going -- I'm just telling you what happened. Those are editorial judgments, and we're not going to tell you what you do and don't run. This is a free country.

QUIJANO: But by mentioning this in a...

SNOW: Well, because you asked the question. You asked who I was referring to.

QUIJANO: I'm saying, by the president raising that issue, is he sending a message that he thinks it's wrong for networks...

SNOW: No. Again, I'm going to let -- the president, I think, is smart enough not to tell television networks what they can run and can't run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: So interesting exchange there, Kyra. Of course, all of this happening, as you know, as there has been video aired on CNN, some very intense and graphic video of some insurgent sniper activity in Iraq.

So as the debate continues over what the policy in Iraq should be, certainly the White House well aware of the powerful nature of these images -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Elaine Quijano, thanks so much.

And you can read a blog actually from "AC 360" executive producer David Daws (ph) on why CNN decided to air that insurgent video. Just visit CNN.com/ac360.

LEMON: Well, war is not like sports or gambling or even politics. Winning in war is sometimes a matter of opinion. Or even spin. With that in mind, can the U.S. still hope to win the war in Iraq?

CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In April of 2003, it seemed victory was at hand. The tyrant was gone, and Iraqis would welcome the U.S. troops as liberators, or so the Bush administration thought. But the mission, defined in those days as creating a peaceful and flourishing democracy in Iraq, has yet to be accomplished. And the unending violence has left the definition of victory up in the air.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just the simple question, are we winning?

SNOW: We're making progress. I don't know. How do you define "winning"?

BUSH: I define success or failure as to whether or not the Iraqis will be able to defend themselves.

STARR: In this war the military is having to define victory not as something that can be done by using U.S. military force alone, even though U.S. military lives are on the line. Indeed, the Pentagon has long said that political and economic progress would be vital to a win.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: What's happening is you've got a situation where it's not possible to lose militarily. It is also going to require more than simply military power to prevail.

STARR: More than half a century ago on the beaches of Normandy, American GIs knew their job was a straight military victory over the Nazis. In Desert Storm, Joint Chiefs chairman General Colin Powell held to a doctrine of decisive military force to avoid unclear and frustrating military aims of Vietnam, where he had fought as a young man.

GEN. RICHARD NEAL, U.S. MARINE CORPS. (RET.): And he didn't want to amble in as we had in Vietnam, that he didn't want to go in as a one -- to use the analogy of a one-arm puncher and a boxing ring.

STARR: In Iraq, today's young troops risk their lives in a tough fight against a shadowy enemy that doesn't appear to be weakening. For the troops, it's difficult to see what victory really means.

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think that soldiers have to -- it has to be explained to soldiers, especially in today's conflicts, that the military is only one part of the tools, the means to achieve victory.

STARR: In Mahmoudiya, Iraq, the men of Bravo Company have learned to define victory on a personal scale.

LT. GEORGE WEBB, U.S. ARMY: We let them know that, hey, we're human, too. We're not just people that ride around in vehicles and never dismount or anything. So no, we get out here, attitudes change.

STARR: After more than three years and nearly 2,800 Americans dead, these days the ambitious goal of creating a tidal wave of democracy and prosperity that will sweep across the Middle East seems distant.

(on camera): Victory in Iraq for now can probably be simply best defined as getting the level of violence down to the point that the new Iraqi government can survive and U.S. troops can leave.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Joining me now for some perspective on Iraq, Admiral Timothy Keating. He led the U.S. naval force's Central Command and the U.S. 5th Fleet Operations during Operation Iraqi Freedom. Admiral Keating is now head of the U.S. Northern Command and he joins me now here in the NEWSROOM.

Of course we're going to talk a lot about North Korea, homeland defense, throughout the next half hour. But just listening to Barbara's piece, taking a look at what's happening in Iraq right now, the recent violence with Amara today, the calls for Rumsfeld's resignation, what are your overall thoughts now that you are not so much directly involved with Iraq right now? But you were there at the very beginning.

ADM. TIMOTHY KEATING, COMMANDER, U.S. NORTHERN COMMAND: Yes. You'll recall, Kyra, that it was an exciting time for us in the days after the offensive started for Operation Iraqi Freedom and as Operation Enduring Freedom concluded. Those lessons I think are still important to us. Democracy has been introduced, reintroduced in some cases to parts of the world that hadn't seen it for decades. Folks are beginning to enjoy economic freedom, religious freedom. There are prices being paid that are huge, to be sure, but I remain optimistic about the future for Iraq.

PHILLIPS: You know so many of those men and women that are there.

KEATING: Yes.

PHILLIPS: You know a lot of the men and women that have lost their lives.

Is it hard for you to watch what's happening right now?

KEATING: Sure. You know, as a dad and as a grandfather, there are folks whose sons and daughters don't come home. That is true for us in situations where we're not necessarily helping countries provide for their own security.

I've gone to too many funerals and too many memorial services. You bet it's hard.

PHILLIPS: We're going to talk more about the war in Iraq, what happened in Amara, and also U.S. Northern Command and the fight to protect U.S. citizens right here.

KEATING: Great.

PHILLIPS: All right. Appreciate it.

KEATING: Thanks, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right.

LEMON: He is certainly not a Republican, but he'll be going on television to boost the Republican cause. Coming up, why the GOP is putting bin Laden on TV.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Midterm elections barely two weeks away. And with that, you'll be seeing a familiar face on television this weekend. But you won't be seeing that face of a candidate. A new Republican campaign commercial features Osama bin Laden.

CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider joins us.

Bill, tell us about this ad and the strategy behind this.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, Don, Republicans won the 2002 and 2004 elections by running on the terrorism issue. Now the Republican National Committee has made a Web ad, and they've purchased time to run this ad on CNN Sunday and Monday. The ad has no spoken words, but listen to the sound effects and this phrase, the phrase that you see in the final frame.

"These are the stakes." Now, those are the same words used in one of the most famous ads in American political history, an ad that was run in the 1964 Lyndon Johnson Democratic campaign which was at the height of the Cold War. Look at this old ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Six, eight, nine, nine...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five four, three, two, one.

LYNDON JOHNSON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are the stakes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: "These are the stakes," Lyndon Johnson said.

Now, that 1964 ad aired only once on television, but it was highly controversial, and so is the new Republican Party ad.

LEMON: Yes. Bill, very controversial. I remember seeing that in school. And if you haven't, you've seen it on a documentary somewhere.

How effective will ads like this be with trying to push the war on terrorism to the forefront? Is it going to stamp out the problems we've had with Foley, with Ney, with Weldon? Do you think that it will do that?

SCHNEIDER: Well, ads that evoke fear have in the past often been effective. The daisy ad seemed to be effective in 1964. There was the bear in the woods ad that Ronald Reagan ran in 1984. But the political environment is very different this time.

Way back in 1964, Americans were coming out of the Cuban missile crisis, the Kennedy assassination. They were fearful of provoking a new confrontation.

Now I think most of the fear is that this administration has been too aggressive and confrontational. Our polling shows that Americans believe the war in Iraq -- and we're in the fourth year of that war -- it's highly unpopular, and they believe it has made the United States and the world less rather than more safe from terrorism. So it may not work because the political environment may not be anything like what it was in the past.

LEMON: At the very least, it certainly is a very interesting ad, especially the comparison.

Thank you for that, Bill Schneider.

SCHNEIDER: Sure.

LEMON: And as we head into the midterm elections, stay up to date with the CNN Political Ticker. The daily services gives you an inside new view of the day's political stories. See for yourself at cnn.com/ticker.

PHILLIPS: Well, we're watching the Iraqi city of Amara, where a notorious militia made short work of Iraqi police, and now according to reports is in charge.

British and American forces watching, too, ready to intervene if Iraqi leaders ask them to.

Joining me once again with some insight is commander of U.S. Northern Command, Admiral Timothy Keating.

This happened earlier today, actually when you were en route over here. And I was asking you about it. We were getting the video in and talking about the violence that was happening.

Our generals who consult with us said U.S. forces have got to do something. They've got to get in, and they've got to help. This is just -- this is testing the Iraqi police and showing how much trouble this force is in.

What do you know about the town of Amara, first of all?

KEATING: Southern Iraq. W had a number of forces when you were with us in the Gulf who went around Amara rather than through it and got to Baghdad in a hurry. It's an -- it's an essential element of the developing Iraqi infrastructure.

PHILLIPS: Is this a test to the Iraqi police?

KEATING: Sure.

PHILLIPS: They were in charge. Now you're seeing this militia come in, take over this area.

What is that telling the military, U.S. forces, British forces, Iraqi police, Iraqi leaders about...

KEATING: Right. It's a test, to be sure, Kyra. And the Iraqi security enforcement officials, those who will provide for the health and welfare of the citizens of Iraq, have got to step up to the challenge.

We have been training them for years now. And this will be a significant test.

I think you led in well -- we'll wait until the Iraqis ask for help. This is -- it's going to end up being their problem sooner or later. Better to test them now.

PHILLIPS: Retired General David Grange had this to say about what he was watching as the action in Amara was taking place just a short time ago. I want you to listen to this and get your response.

KEATING: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRANGE: What it takes right now is a dual strategy of George Marshall and Ulysses S. Grant. You have to continue with the compassion of trying to build some type of prosperity and way of life for the Iraqi people like Marshall would do after World War II, and you have to be ruthless like Grant during the civil war.

And right now they cannot let the militia get away with taking over a city. Right now it's a test. And if they let this go, it will definitely be -- definitely be -- not maybe -- a turning point for the results of what will happen in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: What do you think about what he had to say?

KEATING: He's right, it's a test. We said it ourselves just a minute ago.

The likelihood of failure here is very, very small, because we have British and American forces who are watching helping the Iraqis. The Iraqis are well trained, they're motivated. They'll have the fire in their belly here.

And I'm not terribly concerned. There will be -- it will be a tough struggle, to be sure.

PHILLIPS: Muqtada al-Sadr, is this sort of a wildcard? He met with the Iraqi prime minister just two days ago. Apparently, they had a conversation. Now we're seeing this outbreak.

It's the Mehdi army, which is under his command. We're not quite sure if he's supporting this violence or not. The prime minister has asked him not to support violence.

What do you make of him and his influence?

KEATING: The various factions' leaders in Iraq and outside Iraq who are applying pressure in are a source of concern. We'll do well to engage with those folks in discussions about the future of their country, Iraq, and it will be, again, fundamentally up to the Iraqi people to decide whether or not Muqtada al-Sadr is the kind of leader that they want to support.

PHILLIPS: Bottom line, U.S. forces will not intervene unless the Iraqi prime minister says we need your help, we need your support?

KEATING: That would be my understanding. That's right. And I'm pretty sure General Casey and General Abizaid are back in town today, as you know, and I'm sure they're discussing that development, as well as several other possibilities with the secretary of defense.

PHILLIPS: All right.

Coming up, we're going to talk about U.S. Northern Command and what you're doing here to protect air, sea and land.

KEATING: Everything.

PHILLIPS: Terrific. We'll talk more in a little bit.

KEATING: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

LEMON: Coming up here in the NEWSROOM, Mark Foley claim a priest abused him when he was a teen. Now the priest responds. A report from the Mediterranean island the priest now calls home ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Straight to the newsroom. Details on a developing story.

Thomas Roberts, what do you have?

THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Don.

Big news coming out of California, out of the courts there concerning the man that was accused in the 2003 accident at that farmers market that killed 10 people, injuring more than 60 others. His name is George Russell Weller, and he has been found guilty, guilty on all 10 counts of vehicular manslaughter, felony vehicular manslaughter that he was facing.

The jury has been deliberating now roughly for nine days. They had yesterday off. They sent the judge a note asking for a clarification on some different language, coming back this morning, though, with a guilty verdict on all 10 counts that Weller faced.

He was 86 at the time that this accident happened. He's 89 years old now. The defense claimed that Weller got confused while he was driving, confusing the accelerator for the brake. And that's what happened, that's why he stormed through the farmers market there back in July of 2003.

One thing to point out, though. Weller has not been in attendance throughout the hearings, throughout the court hearings that have taken place. A lot of people didn't understand why. They thought that maybe that would be a bad mark for the defense, that he wouldn't be there so that the jury could actually maybe empathize with this elderly man. But he was only there for one day, and during that one day, that's when the prosecution actually showed some pretty grisly photos that were taken that day.

But once again, CNN can now confirm that George Weller, who is 89 years old, has been found guilty of all 10 counts of felony vehicular manslaughter. We're waiting to find out exactly what type of penalty is going to be leveled on this 89-year-old man. Again, he's in failing health right now. We understand that he's mainly now getting around by wheelchair. But as soon as we find out more information about this case we'll bring it to you live from the newsroom.

Back to you.

LEMON: Eighty-nine. Just a sad story all the way around.

ROBERTS: It truly is.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you very much, Thomas.

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

LEMON: Ahead in the NEWSROOM, what it takes to keep us safe.

PHILLIPS: Admiral Keating rejoins us. I'm going to ask him about Kim Jong-il, North Korea nukes and the challenge of homeland defense.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A formal apology for a former altar boy. CNN's Susan Candiotti joins us from Miami, where the Catholic archdiocese is speaking out on decades' old abuse -- Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Don.

"We are sorry." That's what the archdiocese is saying to ex- Congressman Mark Foley, who is now 52 years old, after his claims that he was allegedly molested by a Catholic priest when he was between the ages of 13 and 15 and living in Florida.

The Catholic Church also this day has now released a photograph of this priest. His name is Anthony Mercieca. He -- this photograph was taken about 20 years ago. The priest searched in about eight parishes in Florida. He is now retired, age 69, and he lives now on the Maltese Island of Gozo, which is near Italy.

The archdiocese now speaking out after this priest, Father Mercieca, himself granted a number of phone interviews, extraordinary interviews, to CNN and another -- a number of other media outlets, in which he admitted to, at the very least, fondling Mr. Foley, the former altar boy. He also said he took saunas with him when they were wearing nothing but a towel, and they took a number of out-of-town trips. He said he was sorry if he offended Mr. Foley.

The church has now taken this action. It has removed Father Mercieca from all of his duties as a priest. He can no longer say Mass. He cannot hear confessions. He cannot administer sacraments. He cannot wear clerical robes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY ROSS AGOSTA, SPOKESPERSON, MIAMI ARCHDIOCESE: It is for us to investigate it, and it is to assure people that we're asking if anybody else has been a victim of fathers to please come forward. And we certainly apologize to Representative Foley for any inappropriate behavior that may have occurred with Father.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: And the archdiocese is calling that alleged behavior morally reprehensible and inexcusable.

So, Don, just to recap what has happened over the past few weeks with ex-Congressman Foley. First, revelations of racy e-mails to congressional pages. Then he resigns Congress. Then he enters rehab, he says, for alcoholism. Then his attorney holds a news conference to say he is gay and that he was allegedly molested by a Catholic priest. And now finally, an apology from the Catholic Church. It has some people asking what's next?

LEMON: Absolutely. And I heard in your story there the archdiocese representative asking anyone to come forward. Have they heard from anybody else about this priest?

CANDIOTTI: They have not as yet. And they also say in their records, they have absolutely no complaints against this priest. That is why they are asking for any other alleged victim to come forward, because right now there is no criminal investigation going on by the Palm Beach state attorney's office. That is because Mr. Foley himself does not want to press criminal charges. So unless someone else comes forward to say this happened to me, too, that office will not prosecute.

LEMON: Just real quickly, though, he's asking that this priest seek therapy, though, is that correct?

CANDIOTTI: That is right. The archdiocese has offered it, and officially Mr. Foley has not accepted it. Only -- he has only said through his attorneys that he would.

LEMON: All right. Great. Thank you very much for that, Susan Candiotti.

And in stories yesterday about the priest who admits he fondled former U.S. Congressman Mark Foley, CNN and also news organizations published an incorrect photograph showing another employee of the diocese. CNN profoundly regrets our error.

Well, coming up next in the NEWSROOM, what it takes to keep us safe. Admiral Keating rejoins me. I'm ask him about Kim Jong-Il, North Korea nukes and the challenge of homeland defense.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the military won't respect a women giving them orders.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would definitely have to have a strong personality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think anybody is ready for a woman as the president yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's, you know, taken this long for men to kind of realize that women can do the job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would I vote for a female president? Of course. Absolutely.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Our system of free enterprise and democracy is supposed to be a meritocracy. If that's the case, why have so few women risen to the top in politics? Is there a glass ceiling keeping them from the Oval Office?

(voice-over): Stephen Hess is a senior fellow of the nonprofit think tank The Brookings Institution. He says the time is right for a woman president.

STEPHEN HESS, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: I think it's very likely that we're going to get a woman president relatively soon. There are enough women now in the on-deck circle ready to contend for that office.

O'BRIEN: Senator Hillary Clinton is in that circle. But Hess says her husband, Bill, is unlikely to take a back seat like the spouses of other international leaders. Republican Condoleezza Rice is also on deck. However, Hess says her chances are slim because she's never run for office. Either way, Hess believes the long-term impact will be minimal.

HESS: After we get our first woman president, people will be shocked about many things for about 30 seconds. And then they'll just go about their business until there's another election in which they'll either return them to office or throw the rascal out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The U.S. and China try to break the nuclear stalemate with North Korea. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice met with Chinese leaders today in Beijing, having met earlier with Japanese leaders in Tokyo and South Koreans in Seoul. CNN's Zain Verjee is the only network correspondent traveling with her. And in an exclusive interview, Rice challenged the view that Washington doesn't talk with Pyongyang.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: If they have anything that they want to say to us, if they really do want to talk to us, they're doing it. Chris Hill has had multiple discussions with his North Korean counterpart, one on one, with no other countries at the table. He's had dinner with them all in the context of the six-party talks. This is just an excuse. What the north wants is to have a negotiation with the United States so that when they ignore the terms of the agreement, they can say, well, after all, that was with the United States.

What is troubling to the north is that for the first time, they're having to face the collective will of China, Russia, Japan, South Korea, and now with Resolution 1718, the entire international system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, North Korea's nuclear ambition makes the mission of U.S. Northern Command even more critical right now. Its prime objective, homeland defense. After 9/11, that mission's taken on a new urgency. 24/7 NORTHCOM guards everything from possible nukes headed to the U.S., a dirty bomb entering a Florida port, or a possible terror attack on a flight from Los Angeles to New York.

The man in charge of U.S. Northern Command, NORAD, Admiral Timothy Keating, joins us once again.

What is Kim Jong Il up to?

KEATING: His activities are hardly helpful. We heard Secretary Rice comment that we are in dialogue with representatives of his, Kim Jong Il's, and we in the United States Northern Command with other agencies and the Department of Defense are watching him very carefully, Kyra.

It is extremely unlikely that they would be able to surprise us because of the very sophisticated intelligence-gathering mechanism that's in place. We're watching them carefully, and we hope that he, quote, "comes to his senses,: unquote.

PHILLIPS: And I know there's a lot of classified information that you can't talk about. But try and give our viewers a sense of how you actually have your eyes on him, his activities.

KEATING: We'll monitor it all from our command center. And it is not unlike where we're sitting now, an area that has a large number of displays, some of them, as you mentioned, very classified sensors and systems and sources, down through CNN and the other media outlets. We watch them all. We have analysts who sort all this, prioritize, assess risk and then make recommendations to me as commander.

PHILLIPS: You have satellite pictures.

KEATING: Sure.

PHILLIPS: You have radars.

KEATING: Satellites.

PHILLIPS: Give us a sense of the technology. KEATING: State of the art. It's the newest command center in the Department of Defense we have in our headquarters. As you say, radars, data links, chat rooms, you know, that kids can break those TV screens up into four and look at four times four, 16 chat rooms simultaneously.

I don't know how they do it, but so -- and that information and intelligence is being shared across a very broad spectrum of interagency and international partners, coalition partners with us, united to win the global war on terror. So a lot of information coming in. We sort it and we act on it.

PHILLIPS: So when Kim Jong Il starts moving, there's a little activity going on, you're in tune to that?

KEATING: We are.

PHILLIPS: Are you worried about him?

KEATING: No.

PHILLIPS: Why not?

KEATING: Well, as demonstrated by his missile shootings on the 4th of July, you'll remember, the one intercontinental ballistic shot he attempted failed. There are -- it's an unfortunate but no less unalterable fact, North Korea's not even a third-world nation. They're very primitive. Their engineering, their manufacturing techniques are not that great. They're 1950s standards.

So if he were able to mount some sort of attack, A, we'd know about it very early -- not even attack, but means of marshaling the forces for an attack. And our folks -- friends in the Pacific Command would be able to take very quick action. But we watch it carefully.

PHILLIPS: Tell me about missile defense.

KEATING: We have -- the president has authorized to us employ, if necessary, the ballistic missile defense ground-based midcourse interceptors -- technical military term, we're good at that.

But we have missiles in the ground at Fort Greeley, in Alaska, in Vandenberg in California that are capable with detecting with other sensors, detecting, tracking and intercepting, once launched, intercontinental ballistic missiles from, let's say, North Korea. And we were prepared to respond that way on the 4th of July.

PHILLIPS: So basically Kim Jong Il gets lucky, but you're saying look at what he's done so far, hasn't been anything to make us nervous. But if, indeed, something were to happen, you're saying U.S. can counterattack?

KEATING: That's correct.

PHILLIPS: Not a problem?

KEATING: That's correct.

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about protecting our skies. We'll never forget 9/11. We'll never forget how those airplanes became a weapon.

KEATING: Right.

PHILLIPS: There was a lot of questions about NORAD at that time. It's now U.S. Northern Command/NORAD. You command both.

KEATING: Correct.

PHILLIPS: About -- the questions were what happened? Where were those jets? Why weren't they scrambled faster? Why couldn't they have gotten to those aircraft before they got to the Twin Towers? A lot of lessons learned for that day.

KEATING: Fair question. Many lessons learned. Many lessons observed and many lessons learned, and there's a difference. We didn't just put together a lot of reports and let them sit on the shelf. We've taken those lessons and put flesh on the bones, if you will.

On the 11th of October, we saw an airplane impact a tall building in New York City. And within -- the numbers are sensitive -- I'd rather not get into specific how long it would take -- but in well under 30 minutes, we had a large number of armed fighters on combat air patrol over many cities in the United States.

We couldn't do that on 11 September, 2001. We did it without even a hiccup thanks to the good work of the men and women who stand the alert, who maintain the airplanes and got them airborne in very short order.

And, of course, we're talking about the New York Yankees player, Cory Lidle, and his plane that went into that building. And we talked not long after that happened because you decided to scramble jets. Why did you do that? Because this was an aircraft that you weren't really concerned about there at Northern Command, but you decided to scramble jets anyway.

KEATING: Yes. In the minutes, seconds and minutes after we saw the scene that's on the monitor right now, I was standing in the office and saw that very picture and decided -- well, I didn't know for sure whether or not it was a terrorist attack. We will always assume the worst case. And with one phone call, the system was very rapidly activated, and we had fighters airborne very quickly.

PHILLIPS: Your heart must have skipped a beat when you saw that video.

KEATING: It did, to be sure. I remember it all too well where I was standing at 9:37 on Tuesday morning, the 11th of September, 2001.

PHILLIPS: The Pentagon.

KEATING: In the Pentagon, felt the building shake. And as you know, Kyra, we lost 26 young men and women with whom I had taken the intel brief just that morning in the Navy Command Center. I thought of that immediately.

PHILLIPS: Now you're the man of charge in preventing that type of thing from ever happening again.

KEATING: Yes, and we take our mission seriously. And I want you and everybody listening to know we are dead set on executing the mission. We take it as a sacred responsibility to defend our homeland. I'm very serious about it.

PHILLIPS: Admiral Timothy Keating, commander to U.S. Northern Command. Always a pleasure to see you, sir. Thank you.

KEATING: Thanks, Kyra.

LEMON: And straight ahead, we're going to change the pace a little bit. Entertainment news with Sibila Vargas. Sibila, what do you have for us?

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's on the run from the law, but we know where Wesley Snipes is. And NBC is toning down Madonna's on-stage antics. We'll have those stories next in the NEWSROOM.

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LEMON: Where is he? Where is he? Does anyone in the control room know where he is? No? Where's Wesley Snipes? Three days after Snipes was charged with cheating the IRS, we don't have an answer.

Or should I say Sibila Vargas, maybe she has an answer. Do you have an answer? Where is he?

VARGAS: Maybe I do. Well, according to the latest reports, he's in that well-known celebrity hideout, Namibia. The African nation that sheltered Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie from the paparazzi is now apparently Snipes' refuge from the government. The actor was indicted by the U.S. government for illegal claiming $12 million worth of tax refunds. Snipes has been shooting the movie "Galawalker" in Namibia, according to the CEO of the Namibian Film Commission.

Now, the folks who represent Snipes haven't given out information on what their client thinks of the charges and what he plans to do next, but the ball is definitely in his court. Namibia doesn't have an extradition treaty with the U.S. so maybe he'll stay there a while. After all, Don, is facing the possibility of up to 16 years in prison. That's a long time.

LEMON: That's 16 long good reasons to stay there.

VARGAS: Yes.

LEMON: Let's talk about another star not facing tax trouble, but is also in Africa and has been in the news lately. What's going on with Madonna and this baby from Malawi? VARGAS: Well, you know, we know all about the headlines the Material Girl generated when she suddenly adopted an African child. But let me tell you, Don, this is not what I'm here to talk about. NBC has announced that they are going to edit out a controversial scene when they broadcast one of her concerts on November 22nd.

Now, you may have already heard about the scene where Madonna sings her song "Live to Tell" while suspended over the stage on a cross. Well, that bit of showmanship has generated protest all over the world. But when the concert was first announced, NBC specifically said that they would include it. Now, after several religious groups complained, the network has had a change of heart. So they will include the song, but, Don, the use of camera angles, they don't expect to show the singer until Madonna is safely on her own two feet.

LEMON: OK. And no wardrobe malfunction in all this, we hope.

VARGAS: Well, hopefully not. Hopefully not. We don't know. With Madonna, you never know.

LEMON: If anybody knows how to attract attention, it's Madonna, right?

VARGAS: She does. And she doesn't even have to try sometimes. It just comes her way.

LEMON: I don't know about her not trying. Maybe she makes it look -- she makes it look easy, right? What do you have for us tonight, Sibila?

VARGAS: Well, tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," why twin brothers who are Jehovah Witnesses decided to reveal they are both gay for a weekly TV show. And now they're hoping it will make them famous. They tell their remarkable stories on TV's most provocative entertainment news show, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," 11:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN Headline Prime.

Back to you, Don.

LEMON: Very interesting. You got a lot of stuff coming up.

VARGAS: Sure do.

LEMON: All right, thank you, Sibila. Good seeing you.

VARGAS: Nice seeing you, too.

LEMON: Well, he's just a first-term senator, but people are talking and talking and talking about none other -- Barack Obama. Will he run for president, and will the civil rights community support him if he does? That's the question. We'll look for answers coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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