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Arson Wildfire Rages in California; New Details on Florida Family Slaying; Dissatisfaction With Courts

Aired October 27, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Campaign trail and speaking out against her husband's critics. It is Friday, October 27th and you are in the NEWSROOM.
A raging wildfire in southern California. This time yesterday we told you it had burned 800 acres. Today, the toll is 24,000 acres and four firefighters trapped in its path were killed. Investigators say the arsonist could be charged with murder. Let's get the latest now from Riverside County and CNN's Chris Lawrence.

Chris, amazing how quickly and scary how quickly this fire exploded.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Tony.

And, you know, right now, the sun has come up and firefighters are getting their first really good look this morning at where exactly they stand. At last check, it was about 5 percent contained. That may be updated very shortly.

But again, you know, when you talk about these Santa Ana winds -- and we can feel these gusts that just come out of nowhere, they are extremely dry winds and they whip around extremely fast. Firefighters say that is what happened to that five-man crew that was trapped in that remote canyon yesterday. They call them devil wind, where the winds suddenly change direction and literally blew the fire right on top of them. Three of them were killed there at the scene. A fourth man was taken to a burn unit where he later died. That fifth member of that crew is still in critical condition and he's got burns, severe burns, over about 90 percent of his body.

Tony.

HARRIS: And, Chris, not knowing the area as well as you do, give us a sense of the evacuations and what areas might -- residential areas might be in danger here.

LAWRENCE: About 700 people have been evacuated, primarily two towns in the area of Palm Springs. There were more evacuations overnight when, again, those winds whipped up and one firefighters said it literally just pushed the fire down to the base of a mountain where there are a few dozen people living. They had to be evacuated as well

HARRIS: OK. Chris Lawrence for us in Riverside County, California. Chris, thank you.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Want to get over to Chad Myers now in the Severe Weather Center to talk a little bit more about this.

Chad, I'm sure you her Chris Lawrence mention these devil winds and firestorm. I mean just an explosion that is so very hard to contain. We're only at 5 percent now.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Some people actually misrepresent -- and I'm not -- that's not what Chris was doing. But he was saying what somebody else said. They call them the Santana winds, like the devils, but they're Santa Ana winds, coming from Santa Ana. Winds are always from one direction. If it's an east wind, it's from the east. This is actually a north wind today, 11 miles per hour, so that's where that devil wind thing comes from. And people really do that a lot.

Here's what else was going on. When the winds were blowing up the mountain, it's almost like taking a match and putting it upside down. When you take a match and you hold it right side up, it doesn't burn very fast. But you take a match, hold it upside down, it has more fuel to burn. It's burning up the match. And then you accelerate that speed of the forward motion of the storm. The storm -- the fire gets bigger, the storm eventually, the firestorm on top, loses a little bit intensity. But then it can actually throw sparks because the wind on top of a ridge are much larger, are much higher than on the lower part of the ridge.

Here's what happened yesterday. Cabazon, the storm almost to Hemet and San Jacinto. We're worried about this area here. This will be the next area to be affected with sparks if the storm -- if the fire continues to move in that direction. And so far that's what the winds are doing right now.

Back to you guys.

HARRIS: Man, OK, Chad, thank you. Appreciate it.

MYERS: You're welcome.

HARRIS: In Colorado, they're digging out from a big early season snow storm. Up to two feet of snow blanketed parts of the state. Today there's still plenty of snow and ice on the streets in some of the residential areas. Thousands remain without power. But for ski resorts, good times. All this white powder has them seeing green. Some are hoping to get an early start on the season.

And shoveling and shivering in parts of New Mexico, too. They are dealing with snow, ice, high winds. The poor driving conditions have led the state police to close a portion of Interstate 25. Visibility in this area next to zero.

COLLINS: A developing story out of Florida this morning. Four people taken into custody. They are being called persons of interest in the killing of a family of four on the Florida turnpike earlier this month. A news conference scheduled for about an hour from now. We'll be hearing from the sheriff in the area. We're going to bring that to you live.

In the meantime, our Susan Candiotti is following this story in Florida.

Susan, what's the very latest here? We know that they are not being charged in direct connection -- or being held on charges in direct connection to these killings. It's something else.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The four people are being held on federal drug charges unrelated to this case. And we also know that they were picked up in Palm Beach County earlier this week. That's the same county where the family of four, the Escobedos, lived. And it's about 70 miles south of the crime scene where that family of four, mother, father and two little boys, were shot execution-style, several times each, just about two weeks ago.

We also know this, according to one source. They are looking for even more people. And at this time they're not again calling suspects, but people of interest.

They also have put out a nationwide search for a 1999 red Dodge conversion van that at one time had a Florida tag. It might still. A sheriff's spokesman says of this van, it is "definitely involved in the murders." And they're also looking for the person to whom it's registered. A man by the name of Michael James Noduls (ph), 24 years old, of Lake Worth, Florida. Again, simply calling him someone of interest. As one source put it, we're moving closer to trying to solve this case, but "we're not there yet."

Heidi.

COLLINS: Susan, how did authorities find their way to these suspects? Any idea at this point?

CANDIOTTI: We don't know. We do know this about the investigation. It has gone from here to Brownsville, Texas, and back because Brownsville, of course, is where the family used to live, the Escobedos, before they moved to Florida back in June.

COLLINS: All right. Once again, Susan Candiotti, thank you for that.

We do have that news conference coming our way with hopefully even more information at 11:00. And you will see it live right here in the NEWSROOM.

HARRIS: Under attack in Afghanistan, authorities say a bomb ripped through a bus today in a southern province, 14 people were killed. The victims were on their way to a celebration marking the end of Ramadan.

There's anger in a neighboring province over this week's NATO air strikes against Taliban targets. Witnesses and local officials say as many as 80 civilians were killed. NATO initially said a dozen were killed last week. Afghan President Hamid Karzai urged NATO to use maximum caution after nine civilians were killed in another military operation.

And we're expecting to see tape not too long from now as the president meets with the secretary general of NATO. When that happens, we will bring that to you, of course.

COLLINS: Another act of defiance by Iran. An Iranian news agency reports Tehran resumed uranium enrichment over the past few weeks. That includes building a second cascade of centrifuges and injecting gas into the system. The news agency says the country's capacity to enrich uranium has now doubled. This comes as the U.N. Security Council threatens sanctions against Iran.

In South Korea, demonstrating its military might with military exercises against an imaginary or maybe not so imaginary enemy. Here's CNN's Sohn Jie-Ae.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOHN JIE-AE, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): In this military theater, tanks acting the role of the enemy fire at the incoming South Korean troops. Thousands of air, sea and naval troops hone into the beaches of the southern city of Pohong to make an amphibious landing. Bombs go off as naval forces clear the way for the landing of the infantry. Overhead, military helicopters reinforce the navy's bombardment of the beach. Once safely on the ground, the infantry men carefully make their way inland. Today's exercise is one of the biggest conducted solely by the South Korean military.

I'm very proud to take part in today's exercises, says this marine. I will strive to become a mentally and physically strong marine that can complete any mission.

These days, it's a mission that could involve dealing with a nuclear North Korea.

Military officials say North Korea's apparent nuclear test did not factor into the timing or the scale of these exercises. But the fact that North Korea did threaten physical retaliation for the U.N. resolutions, which it said it considers a declaration of war, does serve as a reminder that it is vitally important to maintain military vigilance here.

Retaliation by the North million man army, most of which are deployed on the border with the South, could very well mean war on the Korean peninsula. And no more military theater for these troops.

Sohn Jie-Ae, CNN, Pohong, South Korea.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Striking out on the campaign trail and taking on her husband's critics. First Lady Laura Bush talks on CNN. That is ahead in the NEWSROOM. COLLINS: The law, politics and public opinion. Our senior legal analyst talks with members of the high court about judges on trial. We'll hear from him. That's Jeffrey Toobin. Coming up.

HARRIS: And remember that E. Coli outbreak linked to spinach in California? Health officials have some new ideas about what may have caused it. And you've got to hear this one. In the NEWSROOM. You are watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: We have live pictures? Yes, live pictures from southern California, Riverside County. Our thanks to our affiliate there KTLA for the pictures. Take a look at this. First light.

COLLINS: The wind is . . .

HARRIS: Is the story.

COLLINS: Really pushing that smoke. Look at it.

HARRIS: Yes.

COLLINS: Horizontal.

HARRIS: The nation's deadliest wildfire fighting disaster in five years. Four federal firefighters killed while another remains hospitalized, on life support, battling this. Hundreds of residents forced to evacuate. You mentioned the winds a moment ago. They're called devil winds.

COLLINS: Kind of. Santa Ana winds.

HARRIS: Well, also, devil winds. And there is a reward that's been established as investigators comb the foot hill areas searching for those responsible. And the Riverside County supervisor quoted as saying, "turn that scum in, please."

Take a look at this. How do you attack this? How do you get a handle on this. Of course, you fight it from the air and the winds will only pick up through the course of the day making it tougher on firefighters.

COLLINS: Critics call them activist judges. They're accused of overstepping the law on issues like gay marriage. Our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin had a rare opportunity to talk with one former and one sitting Supreme Court justice. They weighed in on the courts, public opinion and politics.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE (RETIRED): We saw legislation introduced to somehow restrict or affect judges at both the state and federal levels. And even public opinion polls about courts and judges showed an increase in dissatisfaction with the American public. And there was a great deal of rhetoric about activist judges and that seemed to be a mantra of some kind.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Federal judges, they are appointed. They're not democratically elected. They serve potentially for life. Why should we trust you rather than the government officials who are answerable to the people?

JUSTICE STEPHEN BREYER, SUPREME COURT: That's a very good question. Why would anyone want a system like ours in a democracy? The answer has to be, it's possible despite those words on paper that a majority could gang up on a minority. The prayer of the founders was that that wouldn't happen here.

I can remember in my youth Governor Thablis (ph). He stood in the schoolhouse door with the state militia and said the Supreme Court has told me to let the black children into the white school, but I won't. I won't do it. It took more than the Supreme Court. It took President Eisenhower to send paratroopers to Little Rock, who took those children by the hand and walked into the white school, integrating the school according to law.

I tell you that story. It's one of many because it both shows a need for judges to be independent and, more important than that, it shows the need for people in the United States to understand how that independence is part of their life, why they might support it, why they might stand up for judicial decisions, even those that they think are very wrong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Jeffrey Toobin is joining us now from New York with more on this "Broken Government" documentary, "Judges on Trial."

Jeff, thanks for being here.

Do you think the American people agree that the courts are independent?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, Heidi, this is such a hot subject right now. And, by the way, it's on tomorrow night at 8:00 and 11:00 Eastern Time, part of the "Broken Government" series.

The Terry Schiavo case really illustrates the tensions at work here and that's how we start our documentary, because a lot of people thought, at first, that this was a story about how judges neglected the parents of Terry Schiavo and neglected the essential right to life that she had. And so Congress essentially took that decision away from judges. But then there was quite a backlash to the congressional reaction, where people said, what is Congress getting involved in this? We should leave this to the courts. So that I think even though most people, you know, get angry at individual court decisions some -- at one time or another, there is, I think, a basic understanding that judges have to have some independence.

COLLINS: Yes, and I think you made an excellent point when you were speaking with Justice Breyer and you said, you know, federal judges are appointed, they are not elected. In looking at another case, one -- a very recent case, this New Jersey gay marriage ruling, what do you make of that? Was this a case where the courts were telling the legislature what to do?

TOOBIN: It's precisely that. They are precisely telling the legislature what to do. Interestingly, though, they didn't go all the way. They didn't go as far as the Massachusetts court who said . . .

COLLINS: It's not unconstitutional.

TOOBIN: Right. Which said, gay people have to have exactly the same rights to marry that straight people do. What the New Jersey court did was kind of an artful compromise, I thought. They said, there are certain legal rights that go with marriage, relating to the tax code, relating to custody. Gay people have to have those same rights. You can't discriminate against them in that way.

However, you, the legislature, can make up your own mind about what to call this relationship. You don't have to call it marriage. They understand that marriage has such emotional connection for most people.

COLLINS: Religious undertone.

TOOBIN: It is. Even though -- you know, no one's ever said that a court can force a religion to marry people. That would never happen in the United States because of the First Amendment. But there are certain legal obligations that go with marriage. Certain legal benefits that people get when they get married. And the question is, can gay people get those legal rights to? The New Jersey court said, yes, they have to have those rights, but the legislature doesn't have to call it marriage or anything in particular if they don't want to.

COLLINS: All right. Understood. Thank you so much, Jeffrey Toobin.

TOOBIN: OK, Heidi.

COLLINS: Always nice to see you.

And here's the plug. Tune in this weekend for more of CNN's "Broken Government" series, from the best political team on television. You can see Jeffrey Toobin's documentary, "Judges on Trial," Saturday, 8:00 p.m. Eastern and on Sunday 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Lou Dobbs looks at "Democracy at Risk" and the problems with electronic voting. Don't miss it.

HARRIS: Heidi, it's Friday. That means we're diving into the mail bag with Gerri Willis.

Gerri, good morning.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey. Good morning. Good to see you, Tony.

You know, when it comes to credit cards, how much is too much? We'll answer that question from a Pennsylvania viewer. That's next on "Top Tips."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: New video in to us here at CNN. Cabazon, California. These wildfires that we -- actually just one wildfire that has the look and feel of several grown together. We have learned a little bit more about it overnight. As you know, it has grown from about 800 acres, tripled in size, 24,000 acres now. Four firefighters, U.S. Forest service firefighters, have been killed. A fifth is in critical condition. They are going to be working very, very hard today to protect any homes that might be in that area as this fire continues to grow and put those fire lines down. That's going to be about the only thing they can do, apparently, as you see that wind, Santa Ana wind, just cruising through the area to make it that much more difficult to control. Five percent contained right now, which is really not much to speak of. Thousands of firefighters going to be working on that again today.

Also something to watch, the big board, as always. Right now, Dow Jones down about 42 points, sitting at 12,121. Nasdaq down five. So we'll keep our eye on that for you as always.

HARRIS: Foreclosures, credit scores and mortgage rates, just some of the topics for CNN personal finance editor Gerri Willis. Today she is answering viewer e-mails.

Gerri, good to see you.

WILLIS: Hey, Tony, good to see you. Happy Friday.

HARRIS: Yes, happy Friday to you. Are you ready for the first one?

WILLIS: Oh, go for it.

HARRIS: All right. Here we go. "My husband works hard and I am stuck with the worst job of all, household finances. I want to refinance my four-year ARM loan, which is up in June of '07. I am so confused on where to go for a 30-year fixed mortgage at the best rate. It would be so nice to have some help."

Oh, Gerri.

WILLIS: Yes. Well, I'm here to help. So, what you should do -- and this is a great idea, looking to refinance that adjustable rate mortgage. The best place to start is with your current lender. The one you're dealing with right now. That's because this lender knows they're going to lose your business and you may get a better offer somewhere else.

What's more, they have your paperwork on file and that would streamline the refinancing process. But I've got to tell you, Tony, it pays to shop around, too. Start with bankrate.com or hsh.com, two websites that can give you comparisons on rates from individual banks in your area. And don't trust the e-mail, the junk mail you're getting because you're probably getting a lot in your mailbox with low, low, low rates. You may not qualify for that.

HARRIS: No. Gotcha. Gotcha. Hey this . . .

WILLIS: And one other thing, Tony.

HARRIS: Yes.

WILLIS: You know, you might get the husband involved. Two heads better than one, right?

HARRIS: What a novel idea.

COLLINS: Dangerous.

HARRIS: Heidi. Heidi.

All right. We've got a great e-mail. This is a good one from Carolyn in Pennsylvania. And she writes, "my husband and I have a total of 22 credit cards. We have good FICO scores (750 and 760)." That is good. "But I want to raise it. Will canceling some of these cards help?

WILLIS: Well, you know, Carolyn, congratulations on the good credit score. But I've to tell you, your score is so good, your mortgage, your car loan rates aren't going to get any sweeter if you boost it even more. It's more important to think about getting rid of some of that plastic, especially since you're probably paying some annual fees for some of these cards. Plus, the more cards you have, the more at risk you are for identity theft. So think about getting fewer cards. You've got a fabulous credit score. Just enjoy it.

HARRIS: OK. And this from Bryant from Georgia who writes, "I recently lost my home to a foreclosure sale. I have been dealing with a foreclosure company that states they could help me keep my home. Is it possible," Gerri, "even after foreclosure? What do I need to be careful of?"

WILLIS: Well, I don't have good news for Bryant, unfortunately. In very rare cases, it's possible the lender will rescind the foreclosure. That's if you're working with a proper company. But a big word of caution here. There are more scam artists out there than the legitimate companies. To keep your home, you'll have to prove you have the money and you can maintain the loan. All the steps you need to take should be laid out for you. Good idea here, call the Better Business Bureau. Check this company out big-time. Keep in mind, it is rare that a legitimate lender can get back your property after foreclosure.

HARRIS: I hold in my hand here the final e-mail for Gerri Willis today.

WILLIS: Carmac. HARRIS: And it's from Arnold who writes, "I just bought a new home. My parents went to give me $40,000 to put a pool in. How will this affect my taxes?"

WILLIS: Boy, I love gifts like that, don't you? Oh, my goodness. Wow.

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

WILLIS: Wow. So this doesn't affect your taxes because it's a gift. But your parents have to pay a gift tax. The good news here is that gift tax exclusion for your parents of 12,000 per year per person. So if your parents, mom and dad, can give you 24,000 this year and the rest next year, they won't have to pay any taxes on it. But I should mention, once you make that big improvement, your property taxes could go up. And you've got to keep that in mind. And your parents will have to fill out the appropriate forms, obviously, for the IRS.

And just want to remind folks out there, don't forget to send us questions. We've got great questions this weekend. We love to hear from you. Toptips@cnn.com. We'll be back here next Friday answering more questions.

HARRIS: Gerri, you have a great weekend.

WILLIS: You, too.

ANNOUNCER: Live in the CNN NEWSROOM, Heidi Collins and Tony Harris.

COLLINS: Want to get you directly to southern California now. Here is what we know on that deadly wildfire raging there. The Riverside County fire has swept across some 24,000 acres. That's about 38 square miles. The wind-whipped flames trapped five firefighters. Four have now died. The lone survivor has burns over 95 percent of his body. Authorities say the fire was intentionally set and the arsonist could now face murder charges. Let's get the view from above, first. Bill Thomas is in a helicopter for CNN affiliate KABC.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL THOMAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): This is the western flank of the fire. The worst flank of the fire right now. And every now and again it appears to die down just a bit. But then those winds kick up and it takes off again. Some firefighters, they'll be very concerned about it all day long. We've been talking about that. The low humidity. The high heat, which is on the way, and more winds throughout the afternoon. And you might be able to see that's very complicated terrain, even for the thousands of firefighters working this. It's going to be very difficult to contain that flank of the fire. Collectively, the Esperanza fire only 5 percent contained.

Live from Air 7, I'm Bill Thomas, ABC 7 eyewitness news. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: And live now over to Chad Myers in the Severe Weather Center.

Chad, wind, low humidity, high heat, bad, bad mix.

MYERS: Yes, now there's a structure -- and we know that there are structures in this area. We knew that Idyllwild, which is kind of to the east of the fire yesterday, was probably in danger for a while. But because the wind actually had an easterly component, it was blowing from the northeast to the southwest, Idyllwild actually got spared quite a bit. But, you know, you don't know whether this was actually someone's home, was it a camp. We think there will be - we're seeing some vehicles around this building as well. There are many out buildings around.

The whole problem with it today is that, obviously, the fire is still going and the winds have not slowed down. So, the threat today is when we get past this mountain area, this San Bernardino Mountain area, and we get into the San Jacinto area. And what happens when you get sparks on top of a mountain like this. And although San Jacinto and -- have it all the way back down in the valley, you can actually get these little fire balls that will fire at least a half mile ahead of the fire line, especially from a ridge line there, and actually jump the fire ahead and ahead and ahead.

And that's what the firefighters are seeing now. So, you're trying to fight one fire, and you're on one side of the fire line, and you look up, and all of a sudden, there's another fire ahead of you. That's why it's so very dangerous now today, especially when you get into some of these structures. Looking at another structure here -- I don't know if you can kind of take a look at that picture or not -- maybe that's the same one...

COLLINS: Yes, I think it is.

MYERS: ... from KTLA. They had it zoomed out for a while. And I'll tell you, there's these at least another 15 or 20 structures within -- I don't know, a couple hundred yards of where that one is on fire now. And so now not only are you getting tinder dry air and tinder dry vegetation to burn, but now you've got sparks off of a major fire there in a building, in a structure. That spark will go much farther than, let's say, a dry leaf or a dry stick.

Now you have shingles and things that are flying in the air, sparks that will go much farther. And as the winds pick up, it's that threshold, 15 to 25 miles per hour, that will push the fire ahead. And that's -- the way I'm looking at it right there, that's at least a 20 miles per hour wind.

COLLINS: Yes, no kidding.

MYERS: And we did have some gusts of 35 in Beaumont.

COLLINS: Yes, too windy to fly with the type of aircraft they usually use...

MYERS: Look at that.

COLLINS: ... anyway to drop that slurry. It's going to be an awfully tough one to contain. Once again, just a reminder, only 5 percent contained at this point, which is basically, unfortunately, next to nothing.

HARRIS: That's right.

MYERS: And I think that's a lucky number, if they get that.

COLLINS: Probably.

MYERS: Because, you know, there's just hardly any way to contain what they think they may have contained, because these sparks are going to make a bigger fire out of it yet.

COLLINS: Yes, no kidding. All right, Chad. We know you're watching it as well. We've got Chris Lawrence on the scene. We'll check back with him a little bit later, I imagine.

HARRIS: And we are going to talk to a member of the Riverside County Fire Department in the next hour as well. Man.

Still to come, the brutal slaying of a family of four along the Florida turnpike. New developments this morning. Details straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: U.S. troops trying to overcome sectarian violence, swallowing up communities in Iraq. That also ahead in the NEWSROOM.

HARRIS: And striking out on the campaign trail and taking on her husband's critics. First Lady Laura Bush talks with CNN in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: We are following new developments on a story out of Florida. Four people taken into custody. They are being called persons of interest in the killing of a family of four on the Florida Turnpike earlier this month. A news conference is scheduled to begin in about 30 minutes from now. We're going to bring that to you live.

But meanwhile, our Susan Candiotti is following this story in Florida. She is joining us now live. Susan, update us on the story, if you would, please.

CANDIOTTI: Heidi, all we know right now is that four people, as you said, are in custody, and they're being held on unrelated federal drug charges. Police being very careful to label these people only as people of interest in this case so far. They are not being directly linked at this time to those murders along the Florida Turnpike, not being charged in that case, anyway.

But it is also important to explain, perhaps, why they're being held here. This is where these people were arrested earlier this week. And it is also being held here, the news conference, because of the amount of cooperation offered by Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office, helping out the St. Lucie County Sheriff's Office.

And remember, the Escobedo family that was murdered lived here in Palm Beach County, about 70 miles south of where that crime scene was. Just two weeks ago, we remember it well, alongside the Florida Turnpike, the bodies of four people -- a mother, a father and two little boys -- shot, apparently, according to police, execution-style, each person shot several times. The two little boys tucked under their mother's arms as though she was trying to use her body to shield them.

In the ensuing days, police have taken their investigation from south Florida all the way to Brownsville, Texas, where the Escobedo family used to live. They moved here to south Florida back in June. Since then, they have also announced, just overnight, that authorities are also looking for a 1999 red Dodge conversion van with Florida tags. A sheriff tells me it may no longer have that Florida tag on it. Inexplicably, they're able to offer a photograph of that actual van. Perhaps we'll learn more details about how it is they have a picture of this van.

COLLINS: Yes.

CANDIOTTI: They're also looking for its registered owner. Haven't found him yet, either. Back to you, Heidi

COLLINS: Boy, all right. Definitely some questions around this one still. Just a reminder to everyone that that news conference coming up at 11:00. We're going to hear from both sheriffs of St. Lucie County and Palm Beach County. So Susan Candiotti will be there for us. Thanks, Susan.

HARRIS: Timetable or not, much of Iraq is mired in sectarian violence. It's making it hard for U.S. troops to bring security to the countryside.

CNN's John Roberts is embedded with U.S. forces. He tells us about the ghost towns created by this violence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Baghdad may be its center of gravity, but the black hole of sectarian violence is quickly swallowing up towns and villages across Iraq.

In Saba al Boor, north of the capital, half the town's 50,000 people have fled in the face of mortar attacks from a Sunni militia aiming to drive out the Shiites.

Colonel Jim Pasquarette is trying to make it safe enough for them to come back.

COLONEL JIM PASQUARETTE, U.S. ARMY: The sectarian issue encompasses my whole area. It's a very -- I have got the Sunni and Shia all mixed together here. And it bother -- it worries me more than the actual insurgency.

ROBERTS: In Gumera (ph), a Sunni town, the problem is Shiite militias.

"The government doesn't control the militias," this man says. "If we go out, we will be detained by the militias."

Another Sunni claims he was kidnapped by a Shiite militia. He has deep marks from where his wrists were tied, and shows us burns, he says, where he was tortured with a hot iron.

The scars from sectarian violence are everywhere here -- in one place, a Shiite farming village razed to the ground by Sunni gunmen -- in another, a religiously mixed town, now virtually deserted after militias made it their battleground -- the only holdouts, farmers who can't afford to leave their livestock behind.

"Young people sit home all day," complains this man. "They can't go to school. They can't go to work."

Preventing attacks is the key to lowering the temperature here. So, Lieutenant Colonel Rocky Kmiecik works contacts, like Shiite tribal leader Haidr Mohan (ph), for the latest local intelligence.

LIEUTENANT COLONEL ROCKY KMIECIK, U.S. ARMY: Haidr Mohan (ph) just got a report that there is a mortar tube set up, based to fire in Husainiyah. They are waiting for the U.S. patrol to move out of the area, before they start shooting.

ROBERTS: Kmiecik's team swarms into the nearby Sunni town of Qudas (ph), looking for the mortar. In a greenhouse, they find four men with AK-47s and ski masks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the weapons were loaded and ready to fire. The weapons were on fire, so, all they had to do was press the trigger.

ROBERTS: This town of Qudas (ph), which is a Sunni town, has been the site from which many attacks have been launched against the nearby Shiite town of Husainiyah. It's not known at this point if any of these men were involved in any of those attacks, or, in fact, were planning an attack in the near future. But they do seem to be more heavily armed than your average greenhouse worker.

(voice-over): The task to end sectarian violence is complicated by fierce support for the local militias, the only force, they believe, that will keep them safe. After this arrest the entire town turns out to plead the gunmen's innocence and argue for their release -- business as usual for this American patrol.

KMIECIK: We hear that every time, whether the guy's been putting in an IED, whether we have caught him red-handed with kidnapping victims in his home bound and tortured. It's -- it's usually the same story.

ROBERTS: The same story, just another chapter, with everyone wondering how it will end.

John Roberts, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: A rare look at life in Iraq from a CNN correspondent who travels frequently to the war zone. He joined us live last hour and had some incredible things to say. We will replay part of that segment for you straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: You heard this new theory on that E. Coli outbreak linked to spinach from California. Health officials say, get this, wild boars -- wild boars -- may be partly to blame. Earlier they had identified cattle -- Remember this? -- As the source of the contamination. The illness hit in 26 states and one Canadian province. Three people actually died. Several grocery chains had pulled bagged spinach off their shelves before the threat ran its course last month.

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

COLLINS: Firefighters on the front lines, possible murder charges in the background. Look, these are -- new pictures in to CNN. We'll see them in just a second, from a young man who was able to shoot the video for us. We're hoping, Heidi, to get to talk tot him next hour. The latest on the raging California wildfire, straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

And striking out on the campaign trail and taking on her husband's critics. Wait until you hear what first lady Laura Bush said to CNN, Ed Henry on the receiving end, straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

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COLLINS: Defending her husband's policies and her party's candidates. First Lady Laura Bush on the campaign trail.

CNN's Ed Henry joined her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Big day on the trail?

FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH: Big day on the trail. Three stops.

HENRY (voice over): Morning in Minnesota. The first lady is wildly popular in swing states. And it's easy to see why.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mrs. Bush could literally be a Minnesotan because Minnesotans are nice. HENRY: But ask about Bob Woodward's book claiming the president has not been straight with the American people about the level of violence in Iraq, and you see another side of Mrs. Bush.

BUSH: Well, absolutely, I think that's wrong. Of course, the president has been frank from the very, very first speech he gave to the Congress in September, after the September 11th attack. Talking about this is a long war. The enemy can make a big show on television, like they did for the last month for the bloody last month that we had in Iraq.

HENRY: The first lady bristles when pressed on Woodward's suggest that she backed then White House Chief of Staff Andy Card's push to remove Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

BUSH: Those quotes, of mine, were in quotes, and the author didn't call me, and check. It just didn't happen.

HENRY (on camera): You wanted Rumsfeld out?

BUSH: Are you just trying to continue to give the quotes, I said I didn't say?

HENRY: OK, without any quotes, just in general, the book claims that you wanted to push Rumsfeld out.

BUSH: No, absolutely not. That is absolutely not true.

HENRY: The first lady is treated like a rock star on the road, smoothing out the administration's rough edges, a soothing voice in a time of tumult that may help with female and independent voters. But Mrs. Bush is not out here just stumping for candidates; she's also stumping for her husband's legacy.

(Voice over): That's why she even feels an unlikely kinship with her predecessor, Hillary Clinton, who recently weighed in on the spat over which of their husbands did a better job at fighting Osama bin Laden.

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, D (NY): If my husband, and his national security team, had been shown a classified report entitled "bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States," he would of taken it more seriously.

BUSH: Well, she's just trying to defend her husband. And that's what I'm trying to do, too, as I go around here. I know what kind of job my husband does and I know it's a great job.

HENRY: It's a case that she will be making around the clock in the final two weeks, including stops this weekend in Connecticut, New York and Pennsylvania, states where her husband is nowhere near as popular as she is.

Ed Henry, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HARRIS: And, of course, the news never stops in the CNN NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: It never does.

HARRIS: It never does. Betty and T.J. are here with a preview of what's ahead this weekend.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, there. We've got a very busy weekend planned.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we do. We are counting down until the election, and if you're still not sure whether to re- elect your congressman or kick him to the curb, we're going to take you online and show you how to find a quick and intelligent answer.

HOLMES: Also, spoiled rotten, America? In his new book, comedian Larry Miller says the country's gone soft and he's poking fun at the outrages of everyday life.

Plus this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that I'm doing this because he's black?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're doing this because he's the Messiah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: A controversial new film asks the question, what color was Jesus? No matter your race or religion, you won't want to miss our faces of faith (ph).

HOLMES: We're going to have all that, plus the latest headlines. So please join us from CNN Saturday and Sunday morning, beginning at 7:00 Eastern.

COLLINS: Hour by hour, acre by acre, a wildfire races across Southern California, and the person who started it now blamed for four deaths. Some incredible new pictures coming in from the scene. We're going to talk to the cameraman who shot this stunning scene. We'll talk with him, coming up in the NEWSROOM.

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